seems like ~the play~
#assassination
worldly sandal
if they fix the thing where you cant re-corrupt something you cleanse
cobalt pelican
i'd imagine they will, but then again it's been on tr/pvp gear like that for all patch
so idk
rancid bobcat
4
civic hatch
would this make the mechagon rings kinda bad if they are 465ilvl?
rancid bobcat
oops 2
cobalt pelican
nzoth ring, carapace boots, double dagger if fixed
rancid bobcat
feet ring
cobalt pelican
mechagon rings have always
been on a timer
where corr res pushes them out of your gear
scarlet sequoia
well not anymore
cobalt pelican
yeah, i guess
scarlet sequoia
mecha rings are gonna be bis ofc
strange python
wonder if we can corrupt crafted pieces then
scarlet sequoia
with expedient stack
outer arrow
Does exanguinate affect gushing wound?
scarlet sequoia
and gw
scarlet sequoia
485 gw is 20k
chilly marsh
i already have mecha rigns without corruption
scarlet sequoia
465 gw is 16.3k
cobalt pelican
hm
civic hatch
but being 465 rings, the corruption effect wont be as strong right
chilly marsh
100% first slot to put GW
cobalt pelican
i wonder if the ilvl on the 2 ring slots is just worth more
rancid bobcat
is gushing wound still ahead of expedient with exsang?
cobalt pelican
i have no idea
civic hatch
for gusing wounds, unless you just put %stat on it i guess
cobalt pelican
yeah but your 485 slots
scarlet sequoia
and gw on higher ilvl peices
worldly sandal
unless you magically have two 475 mecha rings
scarlet sequoia
well i 100% think mecha rings will be bis even at 465
cobalt pelican
in my brain the 485+475 haste heavy 2nd ring with gw
outer arrow
Does exsang boost GW dmg? if so by how much overall
cobalt pelican
and putting expedient on something else
sounds better
but ye
just made up brain thoughts
chilly marsh
i have 465 but all my gear setups ST /cleave/m+/pvp
use thsoe rings
so its a VALUE GW
think its better than use it on a item i will only use in one situation
cobalt pelican
gw is hasted, and there's more sources of normal haste procs
scarlet sequoia
because 3x ss exsang is better than normal build
civic hatch
ah
cobalt pelican
since you eventually drop coral and play vita
outer arrow
wow thanks guys, i didn't know it was THIS hard to type "yes/no/not sure"
crimson palm
200 extra haste is just too good on mecha rings
outer arrow
asked twice
cobalt pelican
and i didn't read it twice, unfortunate
stray folio
so do we just full send GW with change ?
hollow robin
Hey all, for Cara can you feint insanity bomb damage? or does it only apply to damage from being in someone elses ring?
versed mica
I’m assuming someone out there will see what the best corruption combo will be
hollow robin
or should i ask in #wow-general ?
scarlet sequoia
u can feint it yes
crimson palm
Funniest thing is that we are still forced into TA on mh
versed mica
TA?
chilly marsh
Hero dmg profiles use how much corruption resistence?
crimson palm
And every class using nzoth's td sword lmao
chilly marsh
sims might change if we increase it
versed mica
Oh twisted
cobalt pelican
herodamage profiles for corruption comparisons have no corruption so
only the trinket comparisons etc play the 6-7x gw
turbid osprey
When do we drop coral? Think I missed something reading through
chilly marsh
you dont in most fights
turbid osprey
Oh just following sims
Ok, was gonna say, mine are still showing coral always
Don’t have 475 vita yet though
versed mica
My sims make me go plumage+vita
turbid osprey
Is there a pin about this exsang build I can read up on?
turbid osprey
Yeah I dropped coral for vita on drest
cobalt pelican
i don't play coral on anything anymore really
turbid osprey
What build do you play?
chilly marsh
enxbuild?
cobalt pelican
i don't play coral for either build
turbid osprey
Ooooo
worldly sandal
ive only got coral + vita. havent gotten anything else yet, no matter how many KRs and SoBs i run
cobalt pelican
it still sims better for me at 5mins but like
very marginally
and no fights are st 5min
chilly marsh
what youre using ?
turbid osprey
Sim link?
cobalt pelican
generally i'd recommend simming 3min for the first half of the raid at this point anyway
and there coral loses a lot of value
and for the back half
chilly marsh
my sims tell me to still use azshra trinke t=/
turbid osprey
Yeah could see that
Just on the topic of builds
I presume one is still the standard DD/NP etc build
The other is?
strange python
3xSS+exsang
turbid osprey
The other 3 traits would be?
I’m running https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/LLKyZo4mWQFUkQZhVULJU atm
turbid osprey
5 min fight ik, haven’t tried shorter sims yet
chilly marsh
exg SS + HD
turbid osprey
Ooh and you go bote
Ok interesting
Is this written up anywhere? Might bookmark it to read tomorrow
chilly marsh
i thin you need at least Expedient rank 4+ before it becomes viable
strange python
dont think so no
turbid osprey
Mmhmmm thought there’d be some juju behind it
Guess I’ll keep joshing for plumage/vita then
Incidentally would you guys socket a Harlan’s at this point?
From my set in the sim above
chilly marsh
i have 0 expedient and sims just tells its a dmg loss to go exg
cobalt pelican
definitely wouldn't socket dice
it's not a bad item but it's pretty likely it falls outside your gear at some stage
outer arrow
@cobalt pelican thanks I guess
turbid osprey
Ok ty
Was thinking of doing that next but I’ll chill, maybe do crawg tusk for my outlaw set or sth
Don’t think I’ll be changing that anytime soon
mellow hornet
I've been wondering for a while, and havent been able to sim it, but does gushing wounds sim overall better than Infinite stars?
royal lantern
gw sims better and is better
balmy condor
royal lantern
IS is simbait
tropic ocean
however is can due to rng nature have higher highs
mellow hornet
that's what I've been thinking, IS just feels so...RNG based that it feels not worth it
and doesnt really help with simming
strange python
feels good doing wqs and INIFINITY STARing some critters
civic hatch
will full GW stacking be the go to or GW+expedient?
strange python
cant beat that with gw
mellow hornet
Seeing the recent changes to corruption and how we will be able to 'buy; corruption effects, I can finally get some gushing wounds
chilly marsh
i'm thinking in holding currency and see if sims change.
the best possible corruption combination could be a goal now
scarlet sequoia
thats really smart
chilly marsh
im not a pro simming but bet someone will do it
scarlet sequoia
yeah for surely
chilly marsh
like 3 12% haste + 4 GW
eager mountain
If that happens is it possible to pin that message :P?
red bloom
yes please ^^
cobalt pelican
the corruption pin itself would likely be updated
red bloom
can there even be a be all end all combination if what ever corruptions could be better depending on our own gear anyway?
dreamy schooner
Hi, im looking for info to start playing Sin M+ any guide which can help, i usually play Outlaw
dark crag
Technically there will also be a cap like all gw is only that much corruption
civic hatch
i mean technically with no more titanforging and all corruption available, there could be a bis gear set right? like back in the day
chilly marsh
i think they said somewhere max cap is 120 resist ?
cobalt pelican
135
dark crag
Yes, but all items with gw 15×x
cobalt pelican
yeah, but there's what
9x15
it fits perfectly
into 135
idk if the 135 is still true of not though
dark crag
Replace a few to get to 25
drifting cosmos
save play would likely to increase too
scarlet sequoia
someone just has to do a gear compare and try out every single combination of corruption:)
drifting cosmos
already many play at 40-50s
scarlet sequoia
on every item
chilly marsh
with a max corruption using 145 resist
echo cargo
crit damage% is good with bote
drifting cosmos
end of expansion madness just began
cobalt pelican
did someone do the epic math addition of how many echoes you can get per week pre-repeatable content farm
and how many corruption per week it is in purchased corruption
i'm too stupid
dark crag
Nightmare of simhell begun
cobalt pelican
cause i don';t see you really
getting that many that fast
from eyeballing it
like one every 2 weeks?
scarlet sequoia
Math for the new changes
Horrific Visions: 750 (250 for last area + 125 per side area)
Major Assaults: 625
Minor Assaults: 375
Emissaries: 250
Raid Boss (1/wk): 75 - 100 - 125 (assuming normal, hc, m - aka, M full is 1,500)
LFR Wing: 125
Random BG Win: 75-125
Rated Arena Win: 50-125 (increases with PvP rank)
RBG Win: 175+ (increases with PvP rank)
Mythic+ Dungeon: 15 per Keystone Level (+15: 225, +20: 300)
Weekly:
Mythic+: 100 per Keystone Level (+15: 1,500 +20: 2,000)
civic hatch
hopefully gushing wounds is cheap af if its based on total corruption given
magic thorn
I currently have 12+9% more crit and arround 3k crit. If we can buy crit now i will get to 70 80% crit without Problem
cobalt pelican
ah so it's a bit more than i expected
dark crag
If gw is available, i go for that. Got enough TA's and others for stuff, gw is just more flexible for what i do ingame
cobalt pelican
even just visions is like 5 vessels per weeks right
besides the ppl sat on 5000k already
i guess you get to spend all your coal on weds :)
have fun :)
shut garnet
dark crag
Buy a socket
chilly marsh
it will be the same alts get for essences
civic hatch
ive been doing 5x visions for the past few weeks to try get less coalescing and still sitting on 120k
scarlet sequoia
i have full sockets already
dark crag
Bank them for reasons
chilly marsh
masks drop more?
dark crag
I have plenty of unsocket and uncorrupted 475 items ready to go
chilly marsh
meh i do 4 5 mask vison every week farming corrupions...
drifting cosmos
yea vision is really boring af
chilly marsh
wasted a lot of keys =/
civic hatch
at least we dont have to do visions for vendor trash at end of run and can get resource to buy actual upgrades now
wet ruin
oh no we are gonna have to do emissaries now
civic hatch
how many echoes did they give?
strange python
50 i think
drifting cosmos
250
wet ruin
sooo arena is gonna be a pretty good way to get some extra
prime void
Have fun
wet ruin
considering its faster than m+
strange python
lfr will finally see an influx of high ilvl players
wet ruin
nah, its probably gonna give you if you haven't cleared the other difficulties
so 1.5k from the mythic run
chilly marsh
time to restore 3 months of 475 items lol to put corrupion on better stated ones 😂
prime void
Enjoy your search function
wet ruin
anyone gonna do the sims? 😄
chilly marsh
prob aethys ? fu? the sims gods
worldly sandal
for what? to see exactly what is BiS?
wet ruin
to get a general idea of what is gonna be good yes
SS exsang is already better than all GW, but it might be different with 485 GW combined with expedients
chilly marsh
we will have THE BIS list now can farm a boss / dg get the better stated boots in all game and put best corruption
static glacier
inb4 gushing wounds isn't in shop for 2 months
heavy lark
@scarlet sequoia What are you currently simming at now?
scarlet sequoia
106k
loud brook
I really hope I can get a bunch of severe corruptions
static glacier
I'm trying to figure out their pricing formula
can confirm it's not based on the amount of corruption on an effect, since TD 3 costs twice what TD1 does
loud brook
Its prolly based on usefulness
loud brook
Idk, just guessing.
static glacier
I think that perspective may change soon scarf
since we're not playing the lottery and can actually target corruptions rank 1s aren't as trash as before
since you can guarantee you'll get your corruption budget filled
loud brook
I cant imagine gushing wound would ever be under 10k at the very least
static glacier
if it's overpriced vs the amount of corruption budget it covers people will just run the stat increase corruptions
loud brook
Yup. I just hope the rank 3 stat corruptions aren't crazy expensive
static glacier
based on the numbers they gave for siphoner
siphoner 2 is 1.48.. as expensive as 1
assuming masterful costs the same as the haste / crit etc ones
and the increase in rank from 1-2-3 is 1.5*
which roughly lines up with TD cost increase (td 1 cost *1.5 twice is 14k, not far from 15k for TD3 in actuality) would lead me to believe that expedient 3 will cost 6750 or somewhere around that ballpark
so you can get one per week comfortably, maybe 2 if you're dedicated
civic hatch
pvp probs gonna be a mess unless they nerf gw
loud brook
Pvp is already a mess
civic hatch
ye true lol
loud brook
Also I'd be very happy if blizzard adheres to your math mo
civic hatch
they should bring that new shadowlands feature earlier, the one where they remove corruption
loud brook
I just want haste and crit corruptions. I have so much of both stats that I just want to make them bigger
static glacier
ngl, stacking ineffable truth will fuck things up in pvp
like actually fuck it up
static glacier
trying to track enemy cds, gl with that one
civic hatch
ye i read somewhere ferals could get like 50% incarn uptime or some shit
static glacier
I wouldn't mind if they disabled them in pvp altogether, they'll never admit it's a shit system for pvp though.
loud brook
I'd be fine with that. Then I wouldn't need to put on an asston of mind flay gear
prime void
Pvp has been fucked since corruption became a thing. Don’t think they’ll fix it now.
Also mind flay has been shit for awhile now
static glacier
you'd think they understand that competitive pvp is fundamentally incompatible with RNG RPG elements
it's why actually competitive esports start people off on an even level, accentuate the effects of player skill and minimise things like gearing / pre-match choices
magic thorn
Will be fun to Kick that 1s < Chaosbolt
static glacier
nevermind corruptions being rng in getting the one you want and at procing at the times you want
don't even joke about that man
it's already fucked up with the chain fear -> CB degeneracy they can pull off with haste procs
magic thorn
What would you think will be more worth for m+
Either stacking severe for Eb and reaching near max crit or stacking gushing ?
static glacier
for sin? Severe / Strikethrough (Bote burst)
civic hatch
would that be the go to vs td?
random cape
does anyone know if we can put lashing void on pieces with the incoming change? that would be pretty cool
static glacier
I would assume not, the samples didn't have any and I can already picture abuse cases with some of them https://www.wowhead.com/spell=316782/whispered-truths
cobalt pelican
you can assume weapon specific corruptions will be staying weapon specific
not 100% but, i'm p sure they'd mention it else
loud brook
I like going 3 shroud, bote or guardian and one eb
loud brook
Idk, I've been satisfied with my current build on 16 keys this week
civic hatch
will TD still be the go to for fort weeks or severe/strikethrough if we can stack it now
you can run anything on 16s tbh
prime void
Probably td3 + severe for fort
magic thorn
Well depends on the dungeon I would say, I'm always playing with 3 eb 2 ss 1 ttk and severe 2 +3 and on the dungeons where you don't so big pulls or weird ones twilight doesn't do like 5% of your dmg.
And I have twilight 3
brave sinew
rng corruptions sucks
magic thorn
Yeah
It can be a game changer on higher keys but normally you don't want to rely on it procing to kill stuff
civic hatch
ye i also find trying to always face the cluster annoying sometimes
and when ur kiting a pillar boss and u proc td into nothing
magic thorn
Not only that. Tol is the worse dungeon. Always stay correct or you get a really juice pull
static glacier
may end up getting to try some meme builds with corruption vendor, VoP major / 3 NP and mastery proc corruption
casino sin
lone junco
wouldn't the Ineffable be more gamble
magic thorn
Then you could also go ineffable truth and gamble
static glacier
gambling on mastery proc aligning with vendetta is probably a bigger gamble than the CDR one
since it can completely backfire while CDR one would only be wasted if VoP is proc'd while vendetta is off cd
magic thorn
I think I will try to max out crit
Expansion is over, no one really cares anymore except high ppl or pvpers maybe
static glacier
to begin with i'll probably stack severe due to versatility of stat
magic thorn
If I wear all my highest crit items without my severe pieces I am at 51% crit. Imagine having severe on every piece then
lone junco
At least crit stacking is good for keys
magic thorn
Will also be huge for bosses then since you don't need much haste anymore if mutilate gets you safely 4 cps
So full crit/mastery m+ build
drifting cosmos
legion is back
vast forum
crit has high DR tho
fleet jacinth
the thing about garrote is just wrong, right?
garrote w 5.4s left is fine bc pandemic
and double cast at first bc ss
static glacier
It's been said that wowanalyzer is outdated
worldly sandal
mfw my sim has been running so long i forgot what i was simming in the first place
cobalt pelican
probably at least partially yes
prime vortex
Do you guys know of any good starter weakauras/addons to get into assassin? I mained outlaw, not too sure about assassin just yet
rancid bobcat
what else would be good to fill with anyway
cause 9 gushing is way under corruption budget
worldly sandal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
drifting cloud
9 gw is like 50 corr as of this week
rancid bobcat
yeah so it only goes up
prime vortex
you're supposed to use BotE primary?
worldly sandal
use whatever sims highest for you, or what the fight dictates
rancid bobcat
so what to switch to once cap goes up
worldly sandal
CLF sims higher than blood for me by 1300 DPS
cobalt pelican
remains 2 be seen what's actually good but i imagine it's just some mix of expedient and gw
worldly sandal
but i like using blood on wrathion because it lines up
grizzled mist
do we want to just buy gushing wounds when the corruption vendor comes out and put it on everything? lol
civic hatch
by the time we max cape resistance, 9x gushing would put us at 0 corruption so probably some tentacles or something with high corruption
honest basin
That's the big question now, what is best, full Gushing Wound on every single and stacking versa like mad, with a bit of crit and a bit of haste ? Is there any other option that come close to that ?
cobalt pelican
stacking vers sounds silly
fleet whale
probably do something like that for pvp, but every stacks vers in pvp anyway
honest basin
Gushing dmg is increased by vers. When many people having dmg corruption already have vers simming quite high stacking vers doesn't seem so silly.
lilac sparrow
GW is not hasted so much
cobalt pelican
something is either hasted or not hasted there's not really an inbetween
you get haste% more procs
but yeah given how the gear of the best geared rogues has played out naturally this tier i'd imagine you basically just want their gear with some of the expedient moved around and gw on high ilvl pieces to fill
i doubt it's more complicated than that
like some people already have insane gear
it's not like we're getting new items
balmy condor
do I still sim 4-5 targets or is dungeon slice usable now
civic hatch
it just means everyone else who isnt as lucky to get insane gear can get it now too
heady aspen
Do you gain Subterfuge from Shadowmeld?
subtle stream
Might depend on the build too right? VoP build with 3x NP with +%mastery might sim well too.
Will need to test it.
broken goblet
Guys. can someone explain to me the rotation for Assassin burst single target. pm or voice? ty
drifting cloud
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
broken goblet
nice, ty
rancid obsidian
Does Gushing Wounds interact with our Bleed support/mastery?
drifting cloud
no
rancid obsidian
To bad, i feel like there are so few interesting interactions this explansion.
mossy valve
languid mesa
Do i need dagger off hand as assa, or i can go with something else?
quasi ledge
Need 2 daggers
languid mesa
😦 okay
drifting cosmos
Don't think gw affected by mast, but it's affected by haste tho. Not too sure about vers but I don't think so
dark crag
Versa affects everything
lilac sparrow
anybody know why sims use only one garrot for sub/TB opening and first vanish?
As I calculate expected dmg of 5.4 sec garrot is larger than mut... even I have 3 DD
balmy coral
Do you have SS though? It's not just damage from hitting the button, it's damage per combo point and energy spent
you gain more CP from muti so that adds more dmg
wet ruin
the amount of people who ask if GW is affected by exsang/mastery is way too high
if only they checked to see GW is not even a bleed
torpid sparrow
prettu sure this gw discution isnt even worth it , if it s like i imagine u ll want 2 lash on ur weapon anyways, the higher ilvl the better
balmy coral
lash? in sin chat? nani?
torpid sparrow
it s a corruptor vendor , they showed 10 corruption available
i assume 4 rotation and the raid one available
wet ruin
99% sure weapon specific corruptions will not be there
wet ruin
cuz they are 'weapon specifiic'
balmy coral
they're unique
torpid sparrow
why wouldnt they add it and limit it to weapon slot?
balmy coral
imagine stacking only lash
torpid sparrow
makes no sence to give expedient and mastery to mage and war
and not give mele class their best corruption
rigid mango
Yes it does.
wet ruin
why give it to them when they already have it
torpid sparrow
we dont have it yet
wet ruin
its a 100% drop chance
torpid sparrow
at least that would make the game fun
wet ruin
its not like you gamble to have it on the weapon or not
rigid mango
Why are we even talking lash in assa?
wet ruin
beats me
balmy coral
exactly my question
rigid mango
blizzard just fixed the system so peoplr can get their shit and people will still moan about it
torpid sparrow
if they dont add it i ll stick to my DH then , even with hm ra den it will outdps my 480 rogue
drifting cloud
ok
rigid mango
Good for you bud.
brazen garden
if they add the unique corruptions to the vendor some crazy stuff will happen
tanks running multiple copies of maut's weapon for ST
echo cargo
I hope they do it for the luls
torpid sparrow
no , they just have to limit the slot available to weapon, problem solved
rigid mango
No :)
Weapon was designed as a fistweapon why change that noe
Lash isn't make or break for assa
torpid sparrow
it would blow MF out of wtaer man
balmy coral
I think the ra-den weapon is a nice reward for progressing that far, if you can just put the corruption on any 1hander it removes that
rigid mango
But who would use TA when you can stick better shit on your weapons now?
balmy coral
people with hentai fetish?
torpid sparrow
what s better than TA on 485 dagger exactly?
rigid mango
torpid sparrow
u need corruption outside of GW to activate hod
torpid sparrow
it doesnt add that much if u dont have raden helm and carapace chest on MM ilvl
for me , a 12 % is like 1.5k dps
torpid sparrow
i dont, did ra den and cara on my DH to help the guild composition
rigid mango
Exactly so u don't have the dagger eirher, so your point is what?
drifting cloud
the only problem is if they dont fix that you can corrupt cleansed items
torpid sparrow
the point is, u cant put anything on those dagger atm , they said u cant re apply corruption to a cleansed item
drifting cloud
otherwise you use carapace dagger or wrathion with something else on it
wet ruin
for now
rigid mango
But they also said they were trying to fix it
wet ruin
they will fix it eventualy
torpid sparrow
so u either roll with them as they r , or u put a lash on 475 normal weapon
drifting cloud
and 8x r3 expedient is still 160 corr
torpid sparrow
ye like the pvp bug one
drifting cloud
so fine for a while before cloak goes up
rigid mango
Idk why I would want
torpid sparrow
it s there since day 1 of pathc
rigid mango
Lash
torpid sparrow
still not fixed
wet ruin
pvp bug?
harsh sphinx
torpid sparrow
my hope for a fix is rather small ifd they didnt fixe it in 4 months already
and in the end i m hoping for lash cause it s a corruption which seems to pro alot , compared to the full rng swing of TA, at least it s how i feel it when playing my rogue and DH
if they dont add it , i ll play something else obviously , but it would be fun
wet ruin
why are you comparing rogue to dh
harsh sphinx
it procs a lot or is a pro corruption?
torpid sparrow
i m more talking bout lash proc(obviously on my DH) compare to TA proc on my rogue
lone junco
Where's the 125k sim?
rigid mango
A haste abuser class, ye.
lone junco
Anyone put one together yet?
harsh sphinx
wet ruin
comparing a hasted and generally more proccing corruption on a dh to a 1 ppm tentacle that is not hasted on rogue
arctic harness
Would you want 8 expedients? Don’t you want to mix in some GW’s?
cloud iris
Wait can you buy raid-specific corruptions? Like lash?
arctic harness
Not announced yet
cloud iris
Theres no way you can would be way too broken
Imagine stacking lash
Or flash of insight
honest basin
Is Expedient better than Severe just because there are so many haste procs in the game ? I see many ppl say "you'll want expedient and GW" ... yet crit is a very strong stat, right ?
arctic walrus
haste affecting bleeds as well as regen just makes it worth more whereas crit really onlyhelps with cp generation, which can also be supplemented by higher haste -> more builders
if you look at a corruption breakdown per point I'm pretty sure exp is closer to gw than severe is to exp
rose sapphire
So guys what do u think is the go for assa now when we can buy corruptiones
shy axle
do you guys think we will be able to buy the nyalotha exclusives like raden or skitra as well?
arctic walrus
most likely not
honest basin
I mean I'm aware of what haste does but so far in BfA I've felt like Assa needed some kind of stat balance especially between crit and haste as it's very cool to have a lot of haste but the value decreases the more you get as you have fewer to none energy issues especially with Ra Den trinket.
heavy haven
They cant let us buy skitra corruption
arctic harness
Imagine stacking lash
@cloud iris they could just make it so you can only apply it to weapons, but they can also not add it. It’s up in the air at this point. Until they release a list of what will be available (which I hope they do) we won’t know
dim yacht
edgy pawn
you can sim that via gear compare
wet ruin
you won't be able to get 100% crit even with full crit corruption but 100% crit (or close to it) for 3 seconds with MA is already worse than subterfuge, so I would guess that this much crit all the time by stacking all crit corruption is not gonna be anywhere near the other options
shy dust
Why would you do an 100% crit build
crimson rampart
Would you just try to get like 3 or 4 twisted when we can buy corruptions?
Also, would it be a case of buying rank 2 ones over rank 3 for twisted?
rose sapphire
Dolo rank 2 x2 is better than r3 imo and adds more flexibility on your build
arctic walrus
gw and expedient is what you'll see
raven mica
What about the peeps who play sin in M+, I’d assume they’d stack severe like mad
crimson rampart
Cheers @rose sapphire 🙂
feral creek
does anybody allready simmed what the best corruptions are? full haste/ full gushing?
keen dome
Herodamage template use full GW
rose sapphire
Problem is stacking GW then an awkward need hits
wet ruin
herodamage template is very old
the idea of expedient SS exsang was also not present back then
small crypt
do you just stack haste when playing ss exsang build? cause i see many players going full haste socket enchant etc. but when i sim myself with ss exsang crit is alot better, even though I'm only at 3k haste
i know i know sim yourself
but was wondering why some stack it to 4,5kish
foggy flume
@wet ruin how come subterfuge is better than ma ? did something change from january ?
crimson palm
no obviously nothing changes between 2 patches
cobalt pelican
depends a lot on what corruptions you have, as well as what the base stats on your gear/corruption are
stats try to balance each other out to some degree, that's why you'll see some people gemming some/all crit gems despite committing full expedient
foggy flume
Just asking because MA still sims higher for me, unless i go with ss
crimson palm
do you just stack haste when playing ss exsang build? cause i see many players going full haste socket enchant etc. but when i sim myself with ss exsang crit is alot better, even though I'm only at 3k haste
@small crypt what's your exp rank
small crypt
rank 4 only
big yikes
makes sense, that haste rating scales up as you have more exp
but, wouldn't be low amounts of haste already be better?
wet ruin
@foggy flume subterfuge has been simming better for a lot of people for quite some time now, it just scales better
crimson palm
with t6+ exp haste will start pulling ahead until a certain point around 50-53%-ish
then crit takes over again
foggy flume
Sorry for the stupid question, what's the basic for the ss exsang build ?
small crypt
so u wanna go for rank 6 exp and then go after stat weights?
crimson palm
u don't go for anything, u do what the sims tell u
small crypt
i do as the sims guide
cobalt pelican
it's way too complicated
crimson palm
then what's the issue
small crypt
was a bad rick and morty reference by me i guess
no issues here just wondering how it works
raven mica
honest basin
@foggy flume As someone said Subt scales better, and there's also the fact that if you play BotE (which you usually will) then if you have more than 25% crit (which you should) then during BotE Vanish you'll go over 100% crit, so you waste some of the value the talent brings you. The higher your crit, the bigger the waste, and Subt takes over.
astral onyx
with targeted corruption coming into play is exsang/ss build going to become the "go-to only" build because it scales better or something? Or will toxic blade continue to be a viable option?
balmy condor
Unknown, but SS and by extension exsang is scaling really well in comparison, so instinctually, I would think exsang is going to see more light than tb
outer lotus
Decided to dust off the old sin for ilgynoth. Anybody wanna look over some logs? Not sure if im doing the opener with bote and subterfuge correctly
patent topaz
looks correct, looking at wipe #10
spark oyster
I think you only garrote once without SS
outer lotus
I always had to refresh my empowered garrote in the 2nd (or 3rd?) Toxic blade but i guess thats just how it lines up right?
spark oyster
Eh
you can refresh your empowered garrote during its pandemic
so that's before 2nd tb
also your use of tb and blood is questionable
outer lotus
I used TB on CD and blood with Vendetta right?
crimson rampart
This is going to sound daft, but you only use exsang in M+?
Or use it for mythic as well?
crimson palm
Don't use it
crimson rampart
Oki dokes
spark oyster
@outer lotus timeline looks scuffed kinda but you used rupture, vendetta, TB, blood then Env
which means your env was 2 cp at best
outer lotus
Maybe one pull i messed it up? Cuz i usually used it at 4 or 5 CP
spark oyster
Oof that's a lot of Ilgy wipes
outer lotus
First day on the boss and we have 9 melee lmao
shrewd night
wait
outer lotus
It wasnt pretty
shrewd night
Are you not using the actual dispel tactic?
outer lotus
No
shrewd night
plain thistle
lol, good luck
outer lotus
had somebody tell our raidlead that thats the go-to with the nerfs
crimson palm
We had 8 melees as well 
outer lotus
i think they just follow stankie video for the first day on a boss lol
hopefully gonna switch next week
spark oyster
Idk what's worse, no dispel with 9 melees or having to deal with MC with 9 melees
both are cancer
spark oyster
the best one
@outer lotus you're doing that opener almost all the time it seems
unless I can't read a timeline
outer lotus
i think you are reading it wrong because im very sure i didnt envenom with less than 4 CP more than maybe once that evening
cobalt pelican
that's a damage timeline not a cast timeline
spark oyster
does it change something ?
outer lotus
was gonna say why the hell is it tracking stuff like deadly poison
fathom swift
yes, a lot
shrewd night
One shows what damage is going on, the other shows actual keypresses
spark oyster
oh yea nvm watching cast now
shrewd night
ember mural
looks good to me
spark oyster
yeah yeah
cobalt pelican
the opener is fine, generally hard to assess normal gameplay when you're (w/o being rude) speed depleting before 2nd vend
like wipe 29 has a giant 1min gap between tbs
but that might just be
progress things
either that or you're unsure of organ kill speed
crimson palm
You might want to take vop
outer lotus
Yea we basically didnt make it to the 2nd phase on ilg lol
crimson palm
As your raid dmg is ass
outer lotus
I dont hold TB for Vendetta right? Just use vend when its up and use blood with the TB thats coming up in the vend
crimson palm
As long as full bote is into vendetta ye
cobalt pelican
~5-6 seconds into vend
which is fine
gives you some wiggle room to fuck up a few gcds and still get the full debuff inside vend
outer lotus
And vanish garrote in the Vendetta just as soon as its up and garrote is in pandemic
spark oyster
yea the apl doesn't even care about lining vanish and vend right?
crimson palm
Think so
outer lotus
Oh that makes stuff easier
spark oyster
never played tb subt so could be wrong though
crimson palm
Think it's a 0.6% loss if you don't pick a talent at all
outer lotus
So probably better of to just use it to maybe dot the clotted boy and ilgy
cobalt pelican
it naturally falls partially within vend anyway
crimson palm
on ilgy if you dont take vop everything's gonna line up
since vend usage is smth like ilgy ilgy ilgy organ ilgy
with the delays inbetween
outer lotus
are there any videos or guides post-nerf for the dispel strat i could link my raid lead?
crimson palm
there's a weakaura
cobalt pelican
you just dispel when the circles are small
crimson palm
that plays the fight for u
cobalt pelican
i don't think most people even use the weakaura
crimson palm
aye
cobalt pelican
you basically just play the fight like heroic (or like i assume you did on heroic)
use 1 organ segment for beams as the entire raid
break mcs (not too hard)
and dispel small circles (either through the player asking for a dispel, general awareness, or weakaura)
and then you go 2nd organ segment/use the remainder of 1st organ segment
and then at the end you just use the enterance or any space left
outer lotus
seems very straight forward. ill bring it up next time, ty!
cobalt pelican
it's honestly so much easier if your raid is even a tiny but functional communication wise
and tbh doing no dispel with this many melee is like.. it's possible but i mean
as you get deeper into the fight and space gets restricted
outer lotus
just getting from the first organ back to ilgy was basically impossible lol
cobalt pelican
half the melee just won't get to hit the boss even
wet ruin
dispell is so much easier, one fuck up with the other one and you are done
also you can use cloak on stuff like the eye following you
instead of just saving it for the next boss
sharp elk
infinite stars cant proc off bleeds/poisons right?
lean marten
it can
worldly sandal
it procs off any damage i thought. that said I don't have any IS pieces on my rogue so dont listen to me
sharp elk
alright cool thanks
zinc coyote
Why use the dispel strat? We had 5 melee not including 2 tanks 2 hpals when we killed it. Took 31 pulls (with our large amount of body pulls factored out lol). Just gotta make sure people are paying attention to their buddies when moving around. If it helps a DH and a fury war can stand on top of eachother
wet ruin
you use the dispell strat cuz its easier
zinc coyote
Dealing with more mechanics is easier? Or just easier on healers specifically?
wet ruin
its not really more mechanics, its really only spreading for MC
I don't think someone calling for dispell or using WA or wathever is really a hard mechanic
zinc coyote
Ahh
Wonder what the breakdown is between the no dispell strat and the easy strat on prog kills
outer lotus
what is the weakaura for dispels btw?
wet ruin
the easy strat is the dispell strat
cobalt pelican
generally the dps check is so low in ilgynoth now you're like 2.5mins off enrage
on our reclears for example
we still wipe 2-3 times sometimes
but none of our reclear kills are 0 death kills
and those would all be wipes doing no dispel
worldly sandal
I remember when my guild did N Ilgy for the first time when the raid dropped (casual guild no mythic kills), and struggled to make the enrage timer.
wet ruin
and again, with doing the dispells you are left with more room, can use immunities for the eye beams you don't need to worry about not taking damage, you can play over 40 corruption, etc. etc.
cobalt pelican
yeah, no dispel is definitely still functional and can work for your raid it's just more burden on individuals to play not moronically
wet ruin
yea, I think we used it for 3-4 rekills, but then we tried the dispell, had literally 0 problems with it and we've been using it since
fathom swift
if you did it no dispel from like early prog then its prob not worth relearning the whole thing to do it with dispels tho
at least thats my experience trying both strats
wet ruin
relearning?
cobalt pelican
idk, we killed it no dispel just before the dispel damage change
and killed it in like 6 pulls with dispels on first reclear after like 2 months on nzoth
fathom swift
yeah your healers have to learn how to do the mechanic and you have to actually do the mcs again
wet ruin
we one shotted it the first time we tried dispelling
dispells are really not a problem
we just call for dispells
not even using WA
cobalt pelican
the biggest problem with dispelling is that
they changed the mcs
to not get healed to full
for some reason
wet ruin
I mean we had deaths only if people got stunned in the black shit during mc
lone junco
casual 55k
wet ruin
and dying is not that big of a problem cuz you won't wipe the whole raid
fathom swift
you have raiders doing 55k?
fathom swift
yeah and read what he said
worldly sandal
i misread sorry
yeah yeah i didnt read closely my b
that said
bolasToday at 10:44 AM
you have raiders doing 55k?
lone junco
6:01
we did hit enrage once.
but i clocked in at 126 hps.
not bad
no assassin stuff though
was our first week doing mythic. but we stumbled through it.
fathom swift
i guess for first time in mythic its not the end of the world
zinc coyote
29 IS procs in 3.5 min
elfin saffron
what will the best Corruptions be for asssassin for raiding?
zinc coyote
Awesome lol
fathom swift
prob a mix of gushing and expedient
night vale
for reclears do you guys prefer to play whatever sims highest or just stack a bunch of Twisted Appendage? looking at logs seems people seem to just stack TA and hope for procs
cobalt pelican
i avoid ta as much as i can
but then again idc about rank 1 logs
i'd rather just do decently well on every boss than have a rollercoaster of a raid
raw coral
same
fathom swift
there's not that many other options for damage procs tho, is is also rng and way worse in a lot of situations
so unless you have a whole lot of stat %
frigid kestrel
I hate proc corruptions in general. Just give me Severe, Expedient, and Strikethrough.
night vale
ive got some good corrution, im currently running, Severe, Strikehthrough, Gushing wound, Expedient and the 485 TA dagger, im just gonna run that tonight i think
strange python
How do you guys handle so much corruption? I'm trying to stay under 40 because I hate dealing with the dude chasing me
Which basically limits me to just my Infinite Stars III ring with 75 corruption on it
lean marten
solo content easier to just stay under 40, with a healer its pretty manageable to be under <79 imo
strange python
So during raid just tank the circles and try to avoid the dude?
lean marten
if u have no stacks going in, u can tank a full circle
if u have stacks or low hp + thing incoming, use cloak or leggo ability
unless ur doing raid prog then prolly 30-60 range is safer
otherwise healers can typically deal
they Eye stacks are pretty manageble under 15 stacks
any more than that u start melting
strange python
Gotcha. Can you kidney shot thing?
I just try to avoid even getting it so I don't know the mechanics too well
lean marten
im not sure, but melee abilities are in range to get hit by thing so its a crapshoot if it works or hit u
if ur full hp then let it hit u
it will take u to like 70% and healer can deal nbd
strange python
Schwerd
I'll try it out tomorrow night. Throwing more corruption on gives me like 6.5k dps increase but I've been holding back
lean marten
yeah in general i don't even react to corruptions unless, like i stated, im low hp or high eye stacks
fathom swift
if its farm sure run more, but I wouldn't go from below 40 to over 60 if you aren't used to playing with it
strange python
Yeah I'm going to have two sets going into it. Will try with higher corruption, if it sucks I can just swap back
north ibex
What's a good combination of azerite traits from Maut head gear for raiding?
Stuck with either Heart of Darkness or Double dose lol
rancid bobcat
Double dose is good
idle ember
I'm having trouble figuring out Droptimizer. It's telling me the mythic carapace dagger is a 5,500 dps upgrade. Does Droptimizer not take into account your corruption levels? I can't imagine dropping T3 stars to wear it would still be a 5k+ increase.
subtle stream
I'm personally not a fan of IS at all. It's too RNG, and has very little value on add fights. But to answer your question, the droptimizer does not take that into account. Do a gear compare with it and drop the stars/equiv corruption.
strange python
IS adds a ton of damage to a fight overall
idle ember
I get IS and why its trash and when im just trying to figure out what this is telling me
plain thistle
nah, just a couple fight you can use it effectively in this tier
but it does sim pretty well for patchwerk 5 minutes
idle ember
is that reading like that dagger equipped is 5k+ dps increase over stars equipped?
or is droptimizer just free range with corruption values
gloomy slate
With the corruption vender coming I should be getting expedient on most pieces, correct?
plain thistle
probably a mix between gushing wounds and expedient
gloomy slate
Mmmkay
plain thistle
since GW scales with gear ILVL i can see using carapace 485 boots with GW and daggers (if they fix the bug)
lilac sparrow
Can I sim 150 sec battle in raidbot?
lilac sparrow
thx 🙂
merry perch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oKVe1fLMNSfaaqM4FBGsCX whats holding your boy back for ST on sin?
cobalt pelican
your stuff
1 socket, bad corruptions, low ilvl gear, double deadly navigation enchants, low ilvl azerite
mystic crest
ouch
rancid bobcat
is there a way to curb the "just get better gear" analysis
mystic crest
no not really
rancid bobcat
merry perch
yeah i play outlaw mostly but i wanna get better with sin for ST boss fights. Just trying to scope out what i need to do to increase my dps
north ibex
Twilight dev stacks right?
merry perch
simming for longer mythic boss fights
mystic crest
only boss ive seen go for 7 minutes is wrathion
rancid bobcat
also 7 minute fights are not pure patchwork
i mean 5 min/7 min probably doesn't affect the results much
mystic crest
true
cobalt pelican
the only real helpful advice i can give beyond get better stuff is like
cobalt pelican
sim hod on your maut helmet, add your jar to the sim
fix up your weapon enchants
sim hod on your shoulders
mystic crest
wouldnt razor coral be good
near coyote
I know gushing wounds is good, but iv never seen someone tear up a fight and look and be like oh wow its gushing
it's always mindflay or infinite stars
No one lucky enough to get gushing wounds or why is that the statement always
wet ruin
I've checked my damage and said, oh wow its gushing
near coyote
fair, just I pug heroic every week on 3 chars never once has someone been top by miles with it in my experience and thats three diff groups weekly
Not saying it's not, just I always see mindflay and infinite
wet ruin
thats not a reason to think mindlay is better than gushing
wet ruin
true
near coyote
I know it's not a reason but I also don't live in a simulation, while it's a good tool a lot you play raidbots more than the game
So was curious why in actual game i never saw it
strange python
is it still good to run subtefuge without SS traits if it is simming higher than MA?
cobalt pelican
you haven't seen it because nobody has it
and the people who do have it
have 15 corruption worth of it
gloomy pagoda
Can anyone explain why a lot of they high end mythic plus rogues are using vita-charged titanshared over ashvane's razor coral?
cobalt pelican
and even if it's overperforming massively it's not comparable to put 15 corr of gw against
gloomy pagoda
assassination rogues that is
cobalt pelican
120 corr of ta
indigo elk
gloomy pagoda
even though crit sims significantly better than haste?
gloomy pagoda
okay, that makes sense
cinder nymph
Will Stacking expedient for the exsang build be doable now?
gloomy pagoda
nah, i was looking specifically at sin
rancid bobcat
gloomy pagoda
thats why i was surprised
vast forum
@near coyote TA and IS have WAY more variance than GW does
GW is extremely consistent
i've had 2 minute pulls with 0 TA procs and 1 minute pulls with 4 procs
on that 1 min pull i can say "WOW, TA carried"
but on average, GW just outperforms
it's also the fact that VERY few ppl have enough GW for it to matter
pearl oxide
How is assassination at low gear levels? I just got 120 on my rogue (returning player after 5ish months) and have heard assassination is good end game, but not sure if I should stick to another spec until I get gear or just go in.
merry perch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mEPXvX2Rq8gLXTrxRNbzs9 moved some stuff around, but i guess getting better stuff still stands?
vast forum
definitely look to get better things
lilac sparrow
My simc say 3ss+exng better for less than 3min battle.. but sub/TB is better for more than 3min. Does it not happend for 3ss players?
snow hawk
Outlow or assassin ? What is thé Best
rancid obsidian
For what?M+ it's pretty clearly outlaw but in Raid/PvP Assasination can realy shine. (+It isn't THAT bad in M+)
(+ most People realy perform best with what they like)
rancid obsidian
Jeah but it's enough of a difference that 9/10 Top Rouges on Rio are Outlaw.
steep obsidian
it depends what you are taking a rogue to m+ for
outlaw has the huge cc + control
sin does not
rancid obsidian
Nothing is realy "Bad" that's one of the few good things in bfa, the balancing is pretty alright.
All depends on what you want.
thin ingot
what piece of the azerite vendor should i start buying first?
like the slot with least terrible shit outcomes
young portal
for m+?
thin ingot
yeah
young portal
probs shoulders
thin ingot
thanks ! 🙂
young portal
iirc there's 3 with ss/eb on, Gorak's is also pretty nice
rancid obsidian
What are optimal Essences for regular Singeltarget/Small Cleave Situations?
strange python
How about azerite vendor for raid? I got enough to buy a rando 460 piece. Should I just save for the 475?
Guild is currently doing H Ny'a, don't know if/when we'll do M
rancid bobcat
If you have heroic on farm then you probably don't need to buy vendor pieces
strange python
Not on farm yet. I'm just now getting back into things so I joined a pretty new guild to learn the fights etc
Shoulders are 435 but the traits are nice. Was thinking about trying to replace that
strange python
Highest I've done is 11 
rancid bobcat
Is the guild itself 12/12 heroic
strange python
Nah I think they're 8/12
Only been with em for a week so we'll see how this week goes
It's so tempting to grab a 460 piece but i can probably grab the 475 next week
tropic jackal
hey guys quick question about dot mechanics. back in cataclysm I played spriest and it was a dps increase if you refreshed dots when you procced a stat boost
does that still apply in bfa? or are the dots auto updated
dull lava
@tropic jackal Screenshotting DoTs hasn't been a thing since I think either late MoP or WoD. They live update.
tropic jackal
@dull lava ty for the reply!
tiny sierra
whats the opener for exsnag DS build?
rancid bobcat
I would say save for the mythic piece
scarlet sequoia
g r g v m r exsang blood
strange python
ty kaite, that's prob what I'll do
oh wait snapshotting isn't a thing anymore? shit i had no idea
So should I rupture before or after Vendetta then
tiny sierra
is it worth it to refresh dots outside of pandemic for exsang when it coems off CD?
rancid bobcat
Before
scarlet sequoia
less than 25 sec left on rupture u refresh before exsang
tiny sierra
also worth it to cap on CP to make sure im always getting a 6 cp rupture?
or only aim for the 6 cp with exsang
is 4-5 cp rupture ok with DS?
tiny sierra
ok ty
scarlet sequoia
ok np
tiny sierra
what is pandemic timer for 6cp rupture btw? sorry for so many questions, this my first time playing exsang it finally is simming higher
scarlet sequoia
30% of 28 seconds
lean marten
i wish afenar's had a diff glow/color for exsang'd bleeds on icons
cuz im an ape and forget i xang'd sometimes and overwrite lol
white wyvern
Someone said this works for Garrote.
https://wago.io/ByPIbMmR7
static glacier
anyone around willing to see if I'm playing the rotation alright? I feel I could probably pool for TB better https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wb2G7hM6xc9rF4VZ#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=6&start=751079&end=1025978
pug shadhar kill, died at 4:31 due to monkaS kill
going to be trialling in a new guild this coming week, need to fix any glaring mistakes
tiny sierra
so with corruptions being purchaseable, do yall think there will be a theoretical BiS list to aim for? do you think the most poss damage will come from a full expedient exsang rogue? just wondering what you guys think
vast forum
assa bad for m+ 🙃 https://gyazo.com/eec0b0a75859748b4b47c23bbacf53b5
opal minnow
@static glacier held vanish for 30ish seconds-ended up losing a cast. couple of tbs could be planned around just a little better.
wet ruin
@vast forum what dungeon is that
static glacier
ah I think I know why
I held it to allign with vendetta, Im assuming it's just use on cd if running VoP?
well, refresh garotte before vendetta but you know what I mean
vast forum
@wet ruin UR22
wet ruin
3eb?
wet ruin
actually pretty big
opal minnow
i've only seen people hold vanish for vend if they run exang build with like 1 exception
and then its only like 15 seconds once then on cd
wet ruin
what corruption are you running
static glacier
it's a mistake in understanding on my part then
will fix, as for optimising TB
I've heard it said 3 Envs per Tb is optimal
vast forum
running 2x TA2 (485 daggers), honed mind 3, expedient3 and severe1
wet ruin
hm. how is expedient in m+
opal minnow
it is. 2 is usually fine but you reapplied bleeds on the tail end of the buff a few times and cost you the extra buffed env cast
static glacier
yeah, I catch myself doing that - what's the play though
do I lose a tick or two
for the extra env
vast forum
idk, i don't have better options
wet ruin
I see
opal minnow
conventional wisdom seems to be you can reapply rupture a couple of seconds outside of pandemic just before tb (like 9ish seconds remaining on bleed) and then tb asap
strange python
Is it worth getting that last env in with less than 5cp?
simple flax
Wait guys just started playing 8.3 after quitting in 8.0, do I have to farm Eternal Palace for Condensed Life Force?
wet ruin
@opal minnow I am pretty sure people ran the sims for that and reaplying during tb was better
vast forum
@wet ruin i could run TD but i don't like it on assa
wet ruin
I don't even like it on outlaw 😄
my 1 GW on 470 is consistently doing more damage than my rank 2 TD (damage per corruption that is)
I am running TA on assa as well
with GW and severe
static glacier
@wet ruin did some searching, there was a response to this question by Zine on 28/11/2019 that suggested reapplication before TB is ideal
wet ruin
28/11 was 6 months ago?
static glacier
yeah, I'm looking more now, seems to be a mixed consensus
vast forum
reapplying out of pandemic is fine
if it's just before TB
that was my suggestion 😄
when we tested it
at the time, it was a 0.2% dps increase or smt
simple flax
Anyone able to help me out with Condensed Life Force?
static glacier
that moment simply having some gear would let me scuff my rotation 😦
vast forum
so it wasn't added to the default apl cuz it wasn't extensively tested
wet ruin
it shouldn't really happen all that much
opal minnow
tbh i was also splitting hairs when i mentioned it-so its not a big deal
the vanish thing was the major fix
static glacier
either way, it shouldn't be too difficult to work on, vanish was just a 
from me
kek
ty for help boys
pray for me, apparently 2 other rogue trials
wet ruin
@vast forum yea, I am yet to get a second one from like 8+ kills already and I really only rely on my bonus rolls at this point
same with second dagger from 8 kills as well
vast forum
i don't even have a hc slapper
and i got my first mythic yday and i had to give it to DH who has mythic and hc already
cuz he doesn't have double mythic
and i don't raid as outlaw ever
wet ruin
oof
vast forum
he also has 5k score and i only have 3.8
wet ruin
gonna bonus roll the second one
wet ruin
we also take buyers that get the weapon sooo I am nowhere near the front line for it 😄