thats a strong +8 DPS
#assassination
worldly sandal
bleak spoke
you either hit envenom again or you wonder if you clip elaborate planning
and settle for less envenoms
or you gamble on a lucid proc if you're in vendetta probably
usually it pays off anyway
raven mica
I go for the mut in that situation
bleak spoke
i said 2 cp + 2 cp mutis
wicked anvil
wait, how about feral druids?
bleak spoke
after you hit envenom
wicked anvil
do they use agi daggerS?
raven mica
Oh
bleak spoke
2h @wicked anvil
opal minnow
no ferals dont
bleak spoke
they can't use fist weapons/maces/swords etc either
vestal wren
!oh, is this okay? else any suggestions for a better text?
raven mica
Ok so low energy 4 CP
bleak spoke
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
bleak spoke
yep
raven mica
I play around EP in that situation
bleak spoke
yeah so basically like this question is obsolete is the point @lean marten
whether you play to EP or you play to env
that was the rotational question in BOD
cuz you didn't have random energy refund
raven mica
Cuz now you can always play to EP
bleak spoke
now you always play to EP and you consider "misplaying" by spending "too much" of your energy
and hope for a lucid proc
but like if you're rewarded it's actually more damage
which kinda makes it a little aids
cuz you'll get an extra env if you get lucky
raven mica
And you clip EP slightly if you fuck up
bleak spoke
but if you don't you probably don't lose one
raven mica
Well, unlucky not fuck up
bleak spoke
dropping ep is possible if you're giga scuffed btu
that never happens with nothing personal basically
you always have enough to keep EP even in the unluckiest of scenarios
(no procs no crits)
at least in the vendetta tb
in later ones yeah you can get fkd but
even if you throw everything on CD it's hard to have a tb window without at least 2 envs nowadays
when in bod if you messed it up enough you could have tb windows with no envenoms (tb at low cp low energy, need to refresh rupture asap, then you get unlucky on muti again)
but now you'll almost certainly get 1 even if you do that
raven mica
Well
lean marten
yeah i was more speaking to the way DD interacts with env buff as the reason to play aroudn it. becuase if u rupt u still get EP and it doesn't benefit to mut in those EP windows necessarily
raven mica
I pull nzoth tonight as sin a few times, see how it feels
raven mica
If it isn’t awful I’ll play it rest of prog
bleak spoke
but you almost never do
https://i.imgur.com/2tPPtka.png like this is playing exsang and not tb @lean marten just dragged up a log of a random farm kill
79% ep uptime 73.6% env uptime and i'm pretty sure i gigatrolled
lean marten
what is that teach me link for lol
bleak spoke
idk
i've never actaully clicked it
oh it lets you tell wcl that a buff should be sorted under damage buffs or whatever
interesting
i suppose it's helpful to wcl at the start of patches
or something
sour citrus
Character:
Author: @Duckfat
Character Scanned: Just now.
Blizzard API Updated: 9 hours ago.
Character: Duckphat (US-Proudmoore)
Spec & Class: Assassination Rogue
Equipped ilvl: 473
Azerite Essences:
Essence of the Focusing Iris (Rank 3),
Memory of Lucid Dreams (Rank 4),
Breath of the Dying (Rank 3),
Blood of the Enemy (Rank 2)
Simulation:
Report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u6eZSJTZrtksFgGAxHN8F4
DPS: 68,461
Elapsed Time: 01:51.
Im only doing 50k dps. How much crit is enough yo move into haste stacking or vice versa?
bleak spoke
generally when you hit 20k under your sim it's not exactly a stats problem
raven mica
You’ll almost never hit your sim DPS on most fights
But 27% Lower is a lil more than that
bleak spoke
there's no "enough" crit btw
sour citrus
Ack!!!
worldly sandal
im at 41% and haste is still a sidegrade
sour citrus
I try to sit somewhere 31 crit and 29 or 30 haste, but thay leaves me in 30-40k dps.
bleak spoke
like i promise you stats have
sour citrus
im at 41% and haste is still a sidegrade
Hwhat!??
bleak spoke
not alot to do with your dps
most stats are good on sin
generally it'll dip if you skew too much into one but an even distribution is rarely like, more than 1-2% worse than an "ideal" setup
worldly sandal
also im gonna throw this out there. i really hope you didnt cleanse that cara dagger to keep EV on your ring
bleak spoke
relatively speaking that's probably less than a 1-2k dps difference if you changed all the stats on your gear to random different stats
sour citrus
If your haste is at 41% then your crit will be low , in the 20s?
bleak spoke
untrue
worldly sandal
no my crit is 41 and haste is 25
bleak spoke
both of them can be high
sour citrus
Ah, how much dps you doing at that @worldly sandal ?
worldly sandal
on a DPS dummy like xanesh or something? 60-65k
sour citrus
How about during any raid boss?
worldly sandal
i dont understand. i just mentioned a raid boss
sour citrus
Lol, sorry, selective reading
worldly sandal
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8omwEqydMW5sUktjnyZJso example of stats differences
its almost negligible
(at my level anyways)
bleak spoke
i promise you it's negligible pretty much all around
it's been that way since like 8.0
and it's that way in higher ilevels of this tier
worldly sandal
i also have pretty good corruptions and essences
bleak spoke
ilevel doesn't mean much either
worldly sandal
^
sour citrus
I keep my corruption under 20, bad idea?
worldly sandal
theres no reason to
sour citrus
I hate avoiding the eye, lol
worldly sandal
youre gimping yourself then
bleak spoke
honestly that's a valid reason
worldly sandal
i mean i can agree on some bosses that moving isnt ideal
bleak spoke
if you're going to int a mechanic by avoiding your eye then eye sucks
sour citrus
Ok, ok. More corruption then. Then hotswap on the fly for moving around boss
fast pine
i like 59 corruption for heroic and 39 for mythic raiding
depending on how you handle it
but im not a reference as i suck at the game
btw
worldly sandal
i just dont have any corruptions worth going over 40 atm
bleak spoke
i think i played 59 for most of prog other than ilg and nzoth for mythic, but on reclear i play less than 40 now generally
worldly sandal
if i finally get the cara dagger this week ill be at 50
bleak spoke
i just can't be asked to deal with awful shit in the middle of a pull
fast pine
XDDDDD
lime edge
i rlly need to lower my corruption
bleak spoke
but there are probably people who hit staggering break points going from sub40 to sub60
worldly sandal
im also really behind on my cloak though since ive mained my pally most of this tier
lime edge
im def doing less dps because i hasve to focus on not dying to it
bleak spoke
i'm just not one of them my sim goes up like 3k or something
doesn't feel worth to me
sour citrus
@@worldly sandal , 1 ss and 2 dd doing better than 3 dd?
worldly sandal
wouldnt know i dont have 3x DD
i just use what i have that the sim tells me is best
sour citrus
Your using iron tide helm with SS
sour citrus
Gonna rearrange what I have and see where it gets me. Thank you guys for the enlightenment
strange python
Top Gear Sims will tell you how good your other Options are
And generally, 69 corruption is kinda yikes
Mby for heroic farm, but especially there IS is Garbage because of the short killtimes
worldly sandal
what are you trying to do? lower your corruption or + DPS?
uncut nova
+dps i only Play heroric raids and m+
strange python
For m+ don't use IS
worldly sandal
^ IS is not the play in M+
uncut nova
In m+ i Use TA
strange python
And for raiding, like I Said: do a top Gear sim and check which combination is Close to your IS setup
uncut nova
Okey and for m+ TA good ore better to pray for gushing?
worldly sandal
if prayers get you GW pieces let me know
bleak spoke
please list the effective prayers by order of effectiveness
^
would be very helpful :^)
uncut nova
Okey xD i dont have a singl piece with GW so its dont work well
shy axle
how do you open with subterfuge and no SS? Garr - Mut - Rup - mut - TB - Vend/Ess etc?
worldly sandal
your sim should have an example opener
uncut nova
Well i Play this all time wronk thx guffin
bleak spoke
short cooldowns inside of long cooldowns is a generally successful dps rule @shy axle
you don't want to just throw tb before vendetta
because the damaging globals in tb are valuable
spending one of them on vendetta isn't good
shy axle
yeah thats true, was just wondering about the sequence bfore using vendetta etc
with subterfuge without SS
bleak spoke
yeah g m r m v tb is generally accurate
i think vel said you can just desync vanish from vendetta
lime edge
Up to what level of visions do you guys think I could do, i've only ever done a +1 boss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8yEQrgkThvt6abtVuVCDxG
bleak spoke
and use it on cd
that has more to do with your cape level and perks bought on the tree than how geared your character is
shy axle
isn`t desyncing vendetta from vanish normal without MA?
bleak spoke
not with SS
shy axle
wondering if it is worth to double gar in vanish when using it as a cd
shy axle
yeah, not running the SS build atm, do not have the gear to make it work yet
but good to know, thanks mate
bleak spoke
basically your vanish isn't super valuable as a dps cd without SS pieces and playing subterfuge
lime edge
where should i go next
bleak spoke
so you just pandemic over it
lime edge
can do 1 more upgrade
bleak spoke
down
boreal maple
down
lime edge
kk
bleak spoke
elite extermination is the best trait on the tree probably
lime edge
so um, vision hunter or exper?
bleak spoke
down!
bleak spoke
doesn't matter
worldly sandal
literally gift is the most important thing on that tree
worldly sandal
gift and the self res
bleak spoke
the 200 sanity from killing minibosses/bosses, the gift proc which makes you invulnerable to sanity damage for 20 seconds (and gives you a lot lot lot lot of haste), the cheat death and the extra sanity
yeah
just keep doing the cape quest
bleak spoke
the sanity resistance from higher cloak levels is hilariously broken
lime edge
lone junco
@bleak spoke yeah, im doing an alt in visions now, and damn it goes quick.
lime edge
which one for visions
wary ice
I've had good success with leeching poison
lime edge
kk thanks
hushed lion
still cant decide what spec to run: i wanna get away from tentacles because of RNG. my tentacle build sims 96k and then i have this
93k has one more tentacle then the other one, 92k is double gushing
boreal maple
main dps difference there is prob the 3 sockets
the GW setup should pull ahead with those items socketed
fallen sapphire
Hey chaps, I'm wondering to get some insight into gushing wound v infinite stars, I have 3x IS pieces now, but the debate comes down to 475 boots (no socket) r1 Infinite Stars vs 470 (with socket) gushing wounds. They sim incredibly closely, and I'm guessing Gushing will just be more consistent damage whereas more Infinite will just help to ramp up damage when it decides to proc. Raidbots is saying it's a negligible 20-80 dps difference between the two. I have been running with IS as I think it can proc from ranged so I'm thinking it might have the edge but wondered what people thought!
plain thistle
yeah, IS is a meme
fallen sapphire
mmm ok
plain thistle
cant be used to its full potential on most of bosses
hushed lion
same as my tentacle problem, but IS hits random targets
plain thistle
tentacle just need to proc, IS need to proc a lot and on the same target before its good
fallen sapphire
Also wondering if I should be using vision again or stick with iris as a minor, iris sims at +300dps more, but I know it's nice to have my cd's line up..
boreal maple
u only pick vision minor. for specific timings in raids
fallen sapphire
ye only seems like I have to wait for vendetta to catchup with bote for 30secs without it, not really a big deal unless the fight is really short I guess, i'll play around with it more, ty
strange python
We always have to wait the 30 seconds for Vendetta to become ready when using BotE or?
green scroll
I have the mechagon ring triggering when you use 3 different spell, does this means I should throw some kicks when I'm on a mutilate/envenom phase ?
plain thistle
manageable
lime edge
its pretty simple
u start out invis, applying double garrote
increasing its duration to 24 seconds
after that runs out u pop vanish and do it again
so u get the empowered garrote
green scroll
oh it's linked to garrote, indeed I can see that
so it seems like there is 2 school here
going with the all together vendetta/bote/toxic blade/vanish
or going with vanish/garrote
lime edge
wdym
nova jasper
should i always use TB between 3-5 CP or is there any moment to use on 0 CP
green scroll
@plain thistle ok so those 2 playstyle are based on whether or not you have vop ?
plain thistle
hmmm, actually the second image its not with vop minor
and the second one looks like subterfuge with SS, because his first vanish is with almost 30s, so he probably did double garrote at the start
but pretty sure you align vanish with vendetta if using subterfuge with SS, for single target
but pretty sure you align vanish with vendetta if using subterfuge with SS, for single target
strange python
you delay BotE to use it with vendetta
@plain thistle couldt i use vop minor to get more BotE/Vendetta Windows? Or are other minor essences still better?
plain thistle
you use VoP minor for some fights, because of the timing, but you need to sim yourself to see if its better for every situation
strange python
Ok thank you for your help 🙂
plain thistle
yeah, that talent row is really weak, but for most people subterfuge is better, even without SS traits for single target
vestal wren
subterfuge scales rly well compared to MA
green scroll
oh indeed sim agrees
sage plank
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
pseudo hamlet
Scrap? I haven't seen that corruption yet, though I guess it's pretty much useless.
boreal maple
yep.
frozen karma
Yes it's really bad for sin
rigid mango
late tusk
Hello everyone, got troubles choosing ring, im noobie, and i use Pawn, but dont understand this, looks like the ring 2 got a good corrup, and it looks like my 2º best one, but the rings 3 and 4 improve my assa what should i geaR?
and im seeing this corrup and looks like is not good, but if i have to focus haste on single target i dont think why this is nt good
boreal maple
thats a sweet dagger. regarding rings it comes down to if u need the corruptions on em or not
cos if not u should see if u can get a trigger ring for ring number 1
opal minnow
late tusk
ye, i know my rings are not good enought but im still low geared
i dont now sim
im learning it
too much info
know*
subtle tundra
Easiest way to choose gear
dapper horizon
what are bis corruptions for assa rogue?
boreal maple
gushing wound/expidients
lone junco
@late tusk tldr pawn is dead. Move on to the future. Raidbots is your friend.
vestal wren
you can import your stat weights to pawn
but stat weights are not a good metric, gear compare is better
wild lion
does gushing wound stack in pve?
lone junco
yes
prime void
rigid mango
📉
boreal maple
Hope ur trolling xd
worldly sandal
what minor should i use in M+ if i dont have strife? ive been using VoP minor with 2x NP
static glacier
depends, what do you want, more st more aoe?
lean marten
iris minor prolly
worldly sandal
dont you lose the haste as soon as you change targets tho? regardless im using iris major
static glacier
purification and the one that reduces group azerites may have merit for aoe.
no Bote?
in that case bote minor
i'd say
realistically though if you're playing sin in dungeons BOTE is a must.
cobalt pelican
you lose the haste when you don't deal damage to the target your iris isn't stacking on for 4 seconds
fleet anchor
Iris coninutes to stack from any form of damage though, so FoK or poison applications work. That's why it stacks so fast for Assassination in particular
Since Assassination is one of the few specs that can stack it with AAs
@worldly sandal You don't lose the stack just from attacking something else, you just don't refresh the stack unless you continue to hit the original target every 3s
If you are continuing to use FoK or whatever, you'll keep refreshing it even if you aren't targeting it
@static glacier Fury Warriors have an Azerite trait called "Gushing Wound" with the same name, so don't get baited by looking at their damage for that. 😄
opal urchin
is the triple shrouded+heart of darkness build supposed to sim quite a bit lower than the standard double dose on single target? got expedients and decent secondaries
assuming even gear obviously
plain thistle
3ss + 3heart with exsanguinate you mean?
opal urchin
ye
plain thistle
that needs a lot of gear
I have like, rank 6 expedient with 477 ilvl and still doesnt still better for me
static glacier
@fleet anchor o lol
silver musk
why only rank 1 yikes
fleet anchor
Yeah I personally haven't been able to get 3x SS to beat a normal build for ST with my gear
Although I'm getting closer
But it does require a very specific setup to work out
Obviously it can work decently in something like HVs even if the sustained damage isn't as high, because the boss HP thresholds are low enough to kill them within Vendetta/Exsang before you run out of steam
But that's a slightly different situation than a 4-5 minute boss fight
lone junco
where it sims better or not, it is still a viable playstyle.
static glacier
well it's certainly good if you need burst on demand for whatever reason (psychus)
strange python
exsang+ss and tb+dd sim very close for me but honestly i prefer dd if fights arent 3min
worldly sandal
on an unrelated note, im enjoying sin in M+ much more than i was outlaw
harsh tusk
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ws7xS2nEjuTZsnNThPDw35 Anyone around willing to give my SIM a glance and see if there are things that could be improved?
I have two IS pieces, 470 and 455 and also stat corruptions, having problems with min/maxing those along with stat weights
burnt dome
Anyone noticed a change in sharks on fh? I used to be able to cloak those, now they still smack me with nature dmg through cloak
strange python
someone mentioned that in #wow-general recently
mustve slipped through when they fixed them
burnt dome
Ah ty
pearl jungle
Hello guys..
If i use Subterfuge talent what is the best opener rotation? Use toxic blade talent and Blood of the enemy essence..
burnt dome
quasi oriole
Isn't garrote better if he has any SS traits tho
fast fog
When stacking Echoing Blades for M+ with BotE, do I not stop using FoK until the essence buff drops or do I fit in finishers?
cobalt pelican
finishers are still worth it unless the target count is 394510395819308531905
[number not accurate]
generally the majority of your damage in that window is ss garrotes anyway so elaborate planning contributes a decent amount
fleet anchor
@lone junco I mean, of course it is "viable" in that it's not that far behind, but I probably wouldn't recommend it for most people unless they have some specific reason for it. It's just harder to get the gear needed and it won't do as much damage until you do. Like my best Exsang setup is a good 3% behind, and forcing triple SS is almost 6% behind so it's non-trivial with my gear options
fast fog
@cobalt pelican Thanks.
fleet anchor
But it's certainly a solid high-end option if you happened to get perfect gear for it. Just takes a lot of doing.
cobalt pelican
clf exsang is like 1.5% behind on 5min in my current available options and about 2% ahead on 3min sims
the majority of reclear is either roughly 3 mins or some stupid shit like drest anyway so i'll probably play it just to spice things up
lone junco
sure. I just prefer the hard peak of an exang opener, then lollygagging around until the 2min vanish. if all things were equal.
seems harder to mess up the opener.
cobalt pelican
i'd say i t's easier to mess up tbh
fleet anchor
I feel like most fights end up being a little closer to 4m atm for our group, other than Ra-den, so that's mostly what I've been targeting
lone junco
not misake wise, mid block mechanics like running out a stain on vexiona or something.
cobalt pelican
yeah that stuff has to be assessed personally i think, we're not the fastest guild ever but last week we 4healed every fight cause alts and had like
fleet anchor
Yeah that's fair
cobalt pelican
only xanesh and vex falling firmly in the 4min bracket, but i'm still kicking on xanesh cause slave labour
so it's hard to care
lone junco
we start xanesh soon. should be "fun"
fleet anchor
But yeah with my gear CLF/Exsang is still about 2.6% behind even for 3 min, but I basically have only 2 Expedient pieces I can use
Which is unfortunate
cobalt pelican
i play a super weird crit heavy setup even for exsang
probably why it's not my cut and dry best build
fleet anchor
Mostly just running a TA/Crit setup and an IS setup
My sub-39 setup for safety kills is like TA2x3 + GW, and then have a set that throws in Severe 3 + Strikethrough 2 or something
Someday I will get Expedient pieces...
cobalt pelican
next week my stupid ass ta legs are going to end up being back in business
just because 66 fits into the res upgrade
cobalt pelican
early in the tier i actually gave up an expedient hivemind ring because it was a sidegrade at the time
large regrets
fleet anchor
Sad times 😦
Going into a more static Severe/Expedient setup would definitely be my preference over RNG hunting with TA
cobalt pelican
yeah idk
i played a raid with ta7 or something and it was just like
it doesn't even feel good when you do well
and feels bad when you don't
it's like a double whammy of suck
fleet anchor
Other Rogue in our guild was running like 120 worth of TA and got 1 proc on Ra-den
Feels bad lol
tall peak
I'm very confused, is battle potion of focused resolve better for raids now than unbridled fury?
cobalt pelican
@harsh tusk you have a lot of good gear, you're wearing kinda weird shit atm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f2qEizZ63nf6qzqLnDG491 smth like this is a first pass, you can take the string of whichever you want to play (if you want to play bote, scroll down)
and then run that set with gems/enchants/etc
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9BgHeH7ZFn1J5UMgr92hUK this should work as a 2nd pass, but can probably be improved from here
civic hatch
is there a new 3xss haste stack exsanguinate build now?
cobalt pelican
it's not super new but it exists yes
civic hatch
better than current build?
unborn pendant
I feel like the Exsang vs. Toxic Blade spec is kinda like the Icecap vs. BoS spec Frost DKs deal with right now.
rigid mango
Dunno how that convo works
unborn pendant
The Icecap vs. BoS thing is basically "BoS is generally gonna be better, and it's generally gonna be better because of this raid's damage profile, but if you have the very specific Azerite gear to make Icecap work it'll be pretty similar DPS-wise but you'll be playing a very different spec."
rigid mango
yes and no
Exsang is legit better for top end sims
And is better for short kill timer fights where you want to log
It's not entirely the same logic between the two
unborn pendant
I felt like comparing the two because there are a bunch of really high Exsang logs on many fights, but most of them are the typical TB+DD build most of us are used to.
And the Exsang logs only really work thanks to some very specific Azerite.
rigid mango
No, the azerite isn't specific at all
molten crow
Hi guys, could not find a pinned post about this; when you are doing M+ around 18, what azerite traits are you going for? I use 2x SS and 3x EB and I feel like im falling behind on both AoE and ST. I don't know if im doing anything wrong or if it's just my gear that is lacking
rigid mango
It's just raid pieces
And/or random other pieces with SS + decent trait
Also, it's kinda hard to gauge logs since a lot are high bec of corr RNG
Even though the build might me numerically worse
unborn pendant
It's the same thing for Frost. You run the raid Azerite with Icecap but it's a very specific setup of traits. Triple Icy Citadel is mandatory for Icecap just like triple SS is mandatory for Exsang. So that's where my mindset was there, and that's why I made that specific comparison.
cobalt pelican
exsang is weird because triple ss isn't really required at all
if anything it's not optimal for most people
rigid mango
Yeah
cobalt pelican
but it feels very weird to play 1ss exsang
shrewd night
Triple SS isnt mandatory for exsang
unborn pendant
It isn't?
rigid mango
It is not.
unborn pendant
Is that just an issue with "logs aren't really showcasing it well for any given reason?"
grave herald
would a nation rogue prefer HoD over Double dose or Nothing personal?
unborn pendant
I'm looking at logs and all the best Exsang builds are triple SS.
cobalt pelican
very few people hit the gear levels needed to make it even be a thing
and then there's some that have the gear but haven't simmed weird shit recently
and then there's the private loggers
and then there's the.. fact that logs are upside down butt ass this tier
shrewd night
Logically you would want triple SS before moving over to exsang, but there seems to be some weird plateau where exsang is just.. better.
unborn pendant
Should I not really go off of logs nowadays for specs like Sin?
cobalt pelican
you can use logs for sure
rigid mango
I mean you can go off of logs
but u should go off of ur personal sims
🙂
Depending on ur corr, ur build might not be the same
Whilst still simming high
cobalt pelican
in general they're a lot less reliable at a glance than in the past
rigid mango
You can't target builds with items, since you can't target items with specific corruption
Outside of the weapons, ofc
crimson palm
Just don't look at logs with TA
unborn pendant
But aren't basically all logs some level of TA?
rigid mango
So it's hard to decide on a build unless you have a very wide variety of corruption at your disposal
crimson palm
3xSS exsan will pull the same dmg 100/100 pulls
rigid mango
Just, look at the logs but you can't just judge on face value
Logs this tier don't work like that
crimson palm
That's because there is TA on cara 485 dagger
rigid mango
But again, just sim yourself and you know what's best for you
You can only play what you have
unborn pendant
Also, how do trinkets influence this? I'm seeing a few Exsang builds running Coral and a few not running Coral, even on fights where you'd normally run Coral? What's the rationale there?
rigid mango
not a build others play that you don't have
shrewd night
Some play coral, some dont have coral
rigid mango
Vers on use trinkets become better
crimson palm
475 versa outsims coral
cobalt pelican
rn personally i play 465 plumage on short fights and coral on not short fights
coral in general just loses a bit of value when you don't get 2 'coraled' vendettas which is almost all the fights now
fleet anchor
@shrewd night
Logically you would want triple SS before moving over to exsang, but there seems to be some weird plateau where exsang is just.. better.
I would say "intuitively" this is the case, but mostly because Exsang is exceptionally unintuitive. 😛
Exsang and SS don't actually interact in the way people intuitively think they do
crimson palm
SS is better as soon as there is a second thing to garrote tho
And on most fights there is
fleet anchor
That being Exsang actually largely doesn't buff SS that much, if at all. Because the amount of SS damage you get every Vanish cycle is largely static regardless of having Exsang or not.
There are a few edge cases where the Haste snapshotting behavior of Exsang "breaks" this or it can compress into certain smaller cooldown windows
cobalt pelican
it does have some benefits right, like fitting more of the vanished second set of garrotes inside your opener lust/pot/whatever
fleet anchor
But largely Exsang works by allowing you to use more normal Garrote and Ruptures during the fight
cobalt pelican
but yeah it's not like 'exsang = big ss'
fleet anchor
And since we don't actually have any traits that buff our normal Ruptures and Garrotes
Largely your traits don't have too much interaction with Exsang
But the bleed focused builds definitely benefit heavily from the massive Haste stacking that is available this patch due to Corruption
@cobalt pelican Yeah it has some minor benefit on the first Vanish/Vendetta, but it's only a couple ticks. So technically a DPS increase but only a small part of what Exsang is doing across the whole fight. I'm mostly speaking in a general sense here.
Intuitively people treat it similar to TB as a damage amp, but that's not really what it does
unborn pendant
Dumb question #2:
I'm seeing some folks run Subterfuge over MA with the Toxic Blade build. What's the rationale behind doing so?
fleet anchor
Because Subterfuge is better than MA in most cases at current gear levels
shrewd night
Its more of a guarantee to forcibly push more bleeds into the encounter, thus more damage. So technically, wouldnt that transfer well with SS as an interaction since you can finish off the empowered garrote and replace it quicker with unempowered garrote? Its free damage so to speak.
fleet anchor
@shrewd night Yes, but that's actually why it doesn't require SS. It compresses the SS into a smaller window and allows you to get more Garrote ticks overall. But not more SS ticks, so it doesn't really "scale" SS
unborn pendant
If I were to run Subterfuge over MA (in the theoretical situation that it's better in sims), would that drastically change my Vanish usage?
shrewd night
Guess, Im not accounting for whatever is being replaced by SS
fleet anchor
However the high haste builds naturally benefit SS anyway because more Haste does scale SS
cobalt pelican
not really drastically, you vanish to apply garrote in pandemic
fleet anchor
But it mostly just brings SS up to similar levels as DD
cobalt pelican
usually just after your first tb ends
fleet anchor
But that more has to do with the Haste than Exsang
Basically: SS like more Haste, Exsang likes more Haste
Exsang and SS thus have similar gear goals, even if they aren't dependent on each other
The reason Exsang and SS were so largely paired in Uldir was because of Exsang Haste snapshotting with Galecaller's Boon actually effectively increasing SS damage quite a bit
But while GCB is alright right now, it isn't quite as OP of an option as it was back then
(Plus SS has been nerfed since then too)
The other area they dovetail in is allowing pretty large burst windows, if that's what your goal is. Which is really useful for things like Horrific Visions and such.
cobalt pelican
or looking cool on the meters at the start of the pull
before you inevitably fade into obscurity
fleet anchor
But all of this is a long way of saying that DD+Exsang actually isn't that crazy. At certain Haste levels Exsang will be better than TB regardless of your traits.
worldly sandal
cries
fleet anchor
But it does require a lot of Haste lol
civic hatch
hmm i just got a 475 galecallers maybe i should sim this shit
shrewd night
Oh yeah, the basis was a /simc of my outlul gear so it will naturally change everything
hollow robin
Hey there, about to start attempts on M cara, and was wondering if anyone had any tips for the fight? Also I'm seeing a lot of people on BotE for rankings, should I ignore those and use my best patchwerk setup instead?
cobalt pelican
if bote is very bad on patchwerk for you, probably
for a lot of people it's insignificantly worse (or sometimes better) than clf
there's not really any ads that need to die particularly
cyan venture
anyone can help me with my ger and stats? any recommendations as my haste is kinda low'
lime edge
scarlet sequoia
think thats the 3485th time u link that bro
wicked anvil
i dont really get the method rotation with subterfuge, why using mutilate once and then rupture? shouldnt you have like 4+ combo points? and also after using vanish he recommends using envenom and mutilate
how about garrote , because garrote becomes more effective when used in stealth?
i dont know better, i am just asking
cobalt pelican
when you say method rotation you'd need to link whatever you're referring to
it sounds like you're looking at a master assassin section of a guide
not subterfuge
heavy haven
any1 simming higher than 95k dps while playing below 40 corruptions?
quasi pewter
yes
quasi pewter
dont have rn
wicked anvil
@cobalt pelican yes you are right, look accidentally at master assassin
but still, once garrote and then rupture, which would be 1 or 2 combo points with rupture
cobalt pelican
it's assuming you have shrouded suffocation
which gives you 3 combo points for your first garrote
wicked anvil
ok but why not use garrote twice then? to have 5 combopoints and max length of the garrote?
static acorn
with no SS Subterfuge and vop major build, what's my vanish window
is it just 1 garrote, double garrote, etc
north basalt
Hiya, is exanguinate a viable talents at this point in the expansion?
north basalt
what stats would be better for it? verse I guess?
static acorn
haste mastery
heavy haven
a lot of haste
north basalt
ah ok thanks
static acorn
lots and lots of haste
static acorn
but yeah i just dont know how to optimally use vanish, short of I vanish and get at least one garrote on every target
im also obv not syncing it w/ vendetta cuz i run vop
celest ibex
!opener
whats the best ST opener and when do i BOTE if im running BOTE
before vanish ?
vast forum
depends on your talents
bote after exsang if you're running it
bote before env in TB and vend if you're running T
TB
ember mural
worth switching to WV/CLF major from BotE? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n5c5Yg77SjimBv6SxC1a3J
celest ibex
i usually Garrot>mutliate>rupter> Vendetta>mutilate >TB > bote >vanish etc..
lime edge
is it possible to sim your best consumables?
cobalt pelican
ya, either 1 by 1 in the dropdowns or in advanced sim using a template like
potion="superior_battle_potion_of_agility"```
cobalt pelican
yes
cobalt pelican
it's a generic trinket, it has no specific implementation
lime edge
oh
cobalt pelican
it goes in the 'if you have stuff now might be good' part
lime edge
gotcha
weak basalt
Yo does having more twisted appendages proc it more often ?
cobalt pelican
no
weak basalt
So just adds dmg values ?
cobalt pelican
yes
weak basalt
thanks : )
harsh tusk
@cobalt pelican ty!
vestal dagger
Is clockwork heart actually decent or just simming well?
Seems like the short period of stat boost could happen when there's nothing to hit
fading wigeon
how do people sim for m+?
digital cosmos
is shrouded suffocation preferable over twist the knife?
leaning to ttk since having bad luck getting good ilvl pieces with double dose
fading wigeon
ok looked at older messages , simming for m+ with dungeon slice doesnt really work. Does it work for a fight like hivemind? I am trying to see how I can maximize for that fight
quasi pewter
for hivemind i'd just sim 2 target patchwerk or something
you dont really do much on the adds as assa anyway
quasi pewter
the gear suggested from the sim would propably be quite similar to 2 target patchwerk but i have honestly never used hectic add cleave
and as assa you should (imo) try to optimize for boss damage and 2 target patchwerk would do that best
you could try both sim options and compare though
fading wigeon
Thank you so much. Thats really helpful.
quasi pewter
yw
heavy haven
@glacial steppe ye pretty good i know haha 😄
alpine shoal
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
prisma monolithBOT
Battle for Azeroth live since: 640 days 8 hours 54 minutes 17 secounds
alpine shoal
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
silver wagon
with triple EB trait - do i FoK on 2 targets?
fleet anchor
Yes but not during cooldowns
If Vendetta is up you can still use Mutilate on the Vendetta target at 2 targets
silver wagon
ok cool ty
pearl jungle
Hello guys..
Someone can help me in private?I have some question!😊
shrewd night
Just ask it here.
pearl jungle
Okey so...
Im playing with 3 SS trait with 2 Nothing and 1twist..
My friend playing with 2SS 2Double and 2Nothing...
We have same talents he has a bit more haste but i have more crit and mastery...
But he do more dmg with garrote and and i dont know how.. My opening is Garrote>garrote>rupture>vendetta>boe>toxic and mult env mult env..when my garrote down use vanish and again doublr garrote..but he does 2.4m dmg by garrote on maut me only 1.6m..sorry for english i hope u will understand me guys.
prisma monolithBOT
rigid mango
As for the damage diff, does he have much higher ilvl traits?
Or an insane amount of mastery etc in comparison
patent topaz
Looking at logs would be the best. This is pretty much guessing
pearl jungle
@rigid mango he has 472ilvl i have only 464 and yes he has higher ilvl traits.
rigid mango
Ilvl traits matter a lot dude
raven locust
Too many factors to consider here, if you had logs available you can get the answers you need much faster and some advice too
tranquil moat
Does anyone here stick with assassination in m+?
If so, do you switch to 3xSS and 3xEB?
vestal wren
seliathan does, he is streaming atm, you can find his stream linked in #rogue-streamers
willow pulsar
I also keep playing sin on m+, yes for this week it's ok to play 3xSS and 3xEB
I would recommend to read m+ guide by Ryfie
He explains which builds, stats, corruptions it's fine to use.
violet forge
Do you have a link please?
willow pulsar
It's on his discord. Not sure if it's fine to link it here
violet forge
Yeah I just joined it, thanks
echo cargo
@strange python lemme get that link 👀
willow pulsar
Dm'ed you
keen dome
Hello fellow rogues. I recently got a good streak of corrupted stuff and broke 89k on patchwerk sim with 1SS, Exsang and IS2+1. However i find this setup lacking in real-life scenario. Very new to exsang build so probably done a few errors, but i would like to now if this is just a very high variability setup or if I just have to ltp.
Here's the log : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L2qJPk4b6nCYNxVf#fight=1&type=damage-done
Sim : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nMUcRgc7wEKoDNnDws5k9M
Thanks !
shy dust
You’re using IS you shouldn’t expect to see that much damage actually
IS is more so sim pad
keen dome
yeah was prepared to be disappoint on multiple target fights, but thought on Shadar it would do well
dusk onyx
Why does so many rogues go for SS even if it sims worse? I dont understand
keen dome
it sims better in my case
vestal wren
also ss is universal, its good on st and cleave
rigid mango
It might not be simming lower
heavy haven
any giga brainers show me how to get more out of it
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aG2R7EyjyFJLtDirooZfhZ
rigid mango
It's also really good for overall damage on a lot of fights where you can consistantly get multiple garrotes off per vanish etc
And it's also great for fast kill timers when you want to log
pearl jungle
Blood of the Enemy or Condensed Life Force better now on raid as rog?
rigid mango
Bote is very versatile and is generally used everywhere esp with the amount of free cleave you get quite often
CLF is really good output wise too
tropic ocean
@dusk onyx you lose less value when u have downtime in a fight
pearl jungle
@rigid mango true...
rigid mango
That too, DD builds suffer as soon as you have downtime
A lot more than what an SS build would
Say nzoth for example
tropic ocean
as long as u can get 2-3 garrotes with vanish
100% traitvalue
Oh and also
Its way higher dps than dd build
Eg nzoth pushs
dps, not overall dmg
rigid mango
@heavy haven carapache chest and raden helm are p dope for the exsang stuff
dusk onyx
so overall you would go for SS and not for DD in whole Nyalotha raid?
rigid mango
Nah, both builds are more than fine
tropic ocean
Depends on fight
dusk onyx
and heart of Darkness?
tropic ocean
In reclear i just use 3ss 3hod cuz cba reforge
tropic ocean
But 2 hod 3 ss 1 bbi if u have goraks can be better
But also more rng
I just play for full boss dmg on most fights cuz everyone else already running beam and auto pad
dusk onyx
i dont want to reforge in the raid for 12 times, i want one build that works out fine. Sim is hard cause of "Light Movement" doesnt fit on all bosses
tropic ocean
And it works good
rigid mango
Either of the builds works everywhere
It's not make or break
I play 3 SS stuff everywhere now because I like it more and like aus, I cba reforging
But I could also play 3 DD shit if I wanted everywhere
dusk onyx
hmmm
tropic ocean
Also 3 ss suits u better in aoe/cleave fights than dd
And is usually same in st do
So*
rigid mango
Depends also on how big the margin is between the builds right
tropic ocean
- feels good outbursting firemage and spamming /laugh
dusk onyx
i have no really good corruption so i do worse damage then the other rogues in my guild
so im looking for my problems
and this SS thing confused me
tropic ocean
its pretty straight forward and easy to play
u suffer less from downtime due to bad movement compared to dd build
rigid mango
bec give or take every fight has cleave
dusk onyx
now its back xD
tropic ocean
because it was nerfed during uldir
rigid mango
It scales well
tropic ocean
but with higher gear, good traits and generally higher ilvl/stats
it gets strong
similar to arms
rigid mango
And with corruption it's kinda just, back
tropic ocean
(not as broken though)
rigid mango
It wasn't used on a single fight in EP
dusk onyx
it feels strange if i take SS now that sims worse 😄
tropic ocean
and once u get some haste % traits it surely will pull ahead
well depends on what you sim
tropic ocean
as soon as theres > 1 target it will most likely be superior
rigid mango
So it's not getting 2 or 3 garrotes off on multiple targets
tropic ocean
and for fights like nzoth where u have 25? sec boss dmg phases
dusk onyx
has someone time to play with my gear if i send you a "Simc"-Link?^^
tropic ocean
its non competable
dusk onyx
im simming "light movement" mostly
dusk onyx
same with minor focusing iris
tropic ocean
like raden u can sim 3 basically
dusk onyx
sims good but in game its not that nice
tropic ocean
well that comes down to your playstyle
u can switch targets without dropping the stacks
the condition only is to hit main target every x
dusk onyx
can you look at my gear and tell me wich one i should use overall in nyalotha?
tropic ocean
you can/should figure that out yourself
im not playing your character
if you struggle playing exsang build dont play it
dusk onyx
it feels like a moon landing
glacial steppe
playing sub 40 corruption is so chill, no dratnos faces running at me in bad situations 
tropic ocean
59 corruption gang
tranquil moat
I’m in the same boat @dusk onyx I have the traits to play DD, or SS. But I can’t make my mind up.
Due to not having any expedient corruption I’m swaying more towards DD
But the SS build is more reliable for m+... decisions decisions
tropic ocean
not having expedient doesnt break the guild though
yes its really good for it but im playing it for whole 12/12 with 3x mindflay
XD
tranquil moat
I’ve got 5x twisted appendage - does your SS not sim a lot lower than DD? @tropic ocean
tropic ocean
last time I simmed it was 3k difference or so
but still as soon as you get an additional mob it should be worth it
and also in stuff like nzoth
I dont care doing 10k less overall
when im pumping boss
glacial steppe
It honestly comes down to what your gear offers anyways
tranquil moat
I’ll have a look, would make my life easier when doing m+ and raiding - means less trait switching
glacial steppe
I started playing Exsang build when it simmed like 1.5k lower than my generic DD build
tropic ocean
in many cases u wont use same traits in m+ and raid though
tranquil moat
Yeah I know
tropic ocean
besides hivemind or carapace (but even there I'd consider it int)
you wont use eb
personally think people need to get off the "overall best" mentality
same for carapace everyone running twilight and pads like crazy
but if u actually increase ur raids boss dps
u can skip 2nd gate
or even 2 transitions
glacial steppe
I did most boss damage in our kill so my job there was done
fathom swift
you dont need to run td and shit to parse on carapace
tropic ocean
yeah u do 😄
fathom swift
no you dont
glacial steppe
you either go EB or have some insane TA procs
tropic ocean
and have ur raid suck in aoe dmg
glacial steppe
but what are parses in 8.3
fathom swift
ya if you wanna pad just use an eb trait, the amount you're likely to hit a lot of shit with td is so low
and if you look at the assa parses for that fight nobody runs td really
tropic ocean
which is just so bad generally
fathom swift
dont even need full
tropic ocean
carapace fight will get so much easier the higher your boss dps
fathom swift
you can still do a shitton of boss damage and pad too its not like you need to go one or the other
if you care about parsing
shrewd night
Why sacrifice boss damage to pad when there are other specs/classes better equipped to deal with said mechanics 
tropic ocean
!!!
and especially on carapace where u can skip the transitions by having high boss dps
makes 0 sense besides log
fathom swift
sure, but when you're on farm there's not much else to keep you entertained
glacial steppe
except making blood sacrifice at nzoth by grappling away during paranoia 
patent topaz
I do as well. What are you simming 2 bosses for?
dusk onyx
im looking for a way to sim for overall equip in nyalotha
crimson palm
u dont need eb to parse carapace
dusk onyx
better heavy?
crimson palm
all u need is a totally not intented vendetta/bote timing when the adds spawn
dusk onyx
no fight is like patchwerk in nyalotha so i dont know exactly wich options i should take, for fights like hive mind i will play outlaw
crimson palm
wut? dog is patchwerk
dusk onyx
ok yeah dog
shrewd night
You dont sim to mimic encounters, you sim to find the optimal potential of your gear. Playing well and smart can and will negate most movement required which in turn makes most encounters semi-patchwerk. I mean, if you need to stay out of melee range for extended amounts of time, you either play bad or got blessed with bad rng.
dusk onyx
yeah but when i sim patchwerk then it will be HoD and DD and NP no SS
shrewd night
Ok? And?
dusk onyx
ok now we are at my first question again. why are so many rogues playin with SS when it sims worse
shrewd night
Because they have better gear. What sims worse for you, may not be the case for them.
strange python
it's more burst so it logs better in shorter fights
shrewd night
- what haste said
vast forum
- SS is more fun to play 🙃
dusk onyx
"What sims worse for you, may not be the case for them." im not total idiot, i made some sims for the rogues i looked at
vast forum
i played 3 weeks of reclears with SS that sims ~4-5k lower than my vop major build simply because i missed the uldir feel of exsang
fathom swift
u dont need eb to parse carapace
@crimson palm not to get 99s, but if you wanna like rank 1 its gonna be hard to without it
fathom swift
true
but its fun to try parse sometimes
even if its mostly based on rng than skill
crimson palm
i dont think its really rng
i.e. koreans wipe intentionally until they get good rng on the guy that's assigned on that boss
fathom swift
sure but asians are insane like that nobody else cares that much
crimson palm
yap
strange python
@vast forum which build won performance wise for you in the end?
vast forum
idk, i didn't do a single reclear with my highest simming build yet
i just play what's fun because i know i'm not inting my guild
i still do mechanics and we never struggle with dps
warm parcel
A. The diff between ss and dd and what ever your sim throws at you likely is way below what your skill does to your dps
B. Just doing highest overall aint always the go to
You have your job in your raid and you do that
vast forum
there are fights with timings that benefit 2 min CDs, where running 3SS 3NP might be god-tier
warm parcel
C. Yes people can have wildly different sim results
strange python
enemy damage taken 
warm parcel
And I can make my top gear show me bote as my #1 pick
Or vop major
Or even clf
It all depends on what combos I pick and how I gem/enchant my char
Or what corr I equip
strange python
in a perfect world they would all perform the same and you pick what you need
i think we're very close to that at this point
warm parcel
They are really all very close
Its all marginal but more importantly gameplay wise different
The go to example I like is nozoth
And how vop was good there on proge
But now its useless cause boss dies too fast
bleak spoke
also useless when they don't let you vendetta psychus
warm parcel
That too
You might be having a different job than the lad whos logs you were looking at
So your base for your setups is completely different
bleak spoke
yeah, i was boss damage only
so i hit the vendetta button on pull for fun
and held vanish until i got out of psychus realm etc
and then got to do it again when second group came out, and then also on second set of thots
(and then in the secret phase on the void spawn and then during lust at the end) etc
warm parcel
Mh
By using vop minor I could use ven on a set tentacle wave at start
And have it back up for burn
warm parcel
Then use it inside chamber and then 2 after
No vop would mean I cant do that
Did no vop sim better?
Yes
bleak spoke
but it would be shit for your strat
crimson palm
u could still do it tho
00:04, 02:04 psychus, 04:04 basher, 06:20 evoke 2 spread, 08:15 before secret phase, 10:15 and 12:15
warm parcel
Well no
I ven asap after chamber
And boss dies before next ven comes up
Even with vop
crimson palm
i meant on progress
warm parcel
Thats what I said I did on proge
dusk onyx
"You might be having a different job than the lad whos logs you were looking at
So your base for your setups is completely different"
In a perfect world the raidleads will think about this but in reality no Raidlead goes this deep into every raiding-Log. They just look how wich color your log has
crimson palm
ye i got that part
my point was no need for vop
since there are timings that we can do without it
bleak spoke
man we killed it so late in the tier that our boss died like 10 seconds into lust
i'm almost certain for rekill we just lust second burn
lmao
warm parcel
The reason I went for vop as I just said
Is that I can ven the second tentie wave
You cant do that with no vop
And so we could use it in the chamber
Again cant do that without
crimson palm
ye
warm parcel
Its just all about how you set it up
bleak spoke
i wonder if there's a cd assignmetn on nzoth that would make playing like, clf major, vision minor and doing big vendetta small vendetta profitable
i tried it for some pulls but realized that to hit clf on the first burn i literally had to hold the button or hit it like many many seconds prepull
so that got scrapped kinda
warm parcel
The 2 min intervals for first two burns kinda make me say no
crimson palm
you can make clf work but not both
warm parcel
Ill play clf when I get my 12 ranks of haste 
scarlet sequoia
🙂
vestal wren
#clfclub
tropic ocean
and held vanish until i got out of psychus realm etc
and then got to do it again when second group came out, and then also on second set of thots
(and then in the secret phase on the void spawn and then during lust at the end) etc
why though
even without vop u can vendetta +vanish 2nd tentacle
and will have it again when u come out for boss
bleak spoke
Nah it wasn’t up in time
tropic ocean
then idk i always vendetta 2nd tentacle and its fine on boss again
bleak spoke
I tried on a bunch of pulls
Maybe we’re going faster than we should have in psychus realm
tropic ocean
we always kill it at 2.30 so it perfectly lines
with vop minor should be more than fine
bleak spoke
Idk basically what happened when I vanished for second tentacle set it inted my vanish on nzoth and sometimes pushed my exsang out of lust
So basically every pull I had a few seconds coming out of psychus where I would vanish dot up vendetta and then hit exsang
glad drift
There anywhere to find all the abbreviations. New to rogue and relatively new to bfa so trying to follow and learn is kinda difficult without knowing the lingo 😋
minor thicket
hey guys just started Mythic Raden, what corruption are most using on that fight - im finding from heroic to mythic IS may not be an ideal choice
warm parcel
Anything thats not is
minor thicket
why
bleak spoke
Cuz is procs on anything you’re in combat with and having the stars hit the adds is a modern day tradegy
analog seal
Hey folks, trying to figure out why a guildie's sin damage isn't great but keep finding something in their logs which doesn't match any other logs I check. Now, they're capping CP and energy like they're going out of style and his uptimes are poor but the thing I can't figure out why the envenom damage from the casts he does make deal naff all damage
been a couple days and I haven't figured it out, so looking for an expert 😉
patent topaz
can you link the log?
analog seal
Said guildie - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CQzdf3TRbNcDPkjq#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=15
Different sin rogue, same kill, more normal damage balance - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CQzdf3TRbNcDPkjq#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=27
patent topaz
for starters, playing beam on xanesh is suspect
swift trail
His openerisnt the good one
patent topaz
pretty weird azerite traits
analog seal
yeah, going to bring that up with him, and know he's not opening with shrouded suff
swift trail
Do youhave his armory ?
analog seal
tropic ocean
using envenom with low cp?
patent topaz
is he playing football?
analog seal
nope
patent topaz
there are a couple points where he doesnt do anything for 10+ seconds
probably dodging ground aoe the other way
analog seal
yeah, that happens a few times
painfully aware that there is a hell of a lot of ground to cover to make the rotation work ':D
tropic ocean
he hard overcap cp and energy
why is he using azerite beam
he refreshs dots early a lot losing a lot of pandemic
analog seal
but of the 30 envenom casts, they did much less damage than the other rogue, even looking at average envenom damage
analog seal
I can cover the rest of it, I just can't figure out why his envenoms tickle
tropic ocean
theres no point to compare the dmg of envenom
due tu difference in corruption/stats/gear
swift trail
he doesn't have Bote ?
glad drift
Might be missing envenom slots in the azetite gear
patent topaz
CD windows are bad
tropic ocean
so yes if one has 50% mastery other 30%
analog seal
everything is bad :/
tropic ocean
or 20% crit vs 40% crit
naturally other guys envenom dmg will be a lot higher
always compare cast counts
patent topaz
would probably be easier listing stuff he does right
tropic ocean
but theres so much more to fix than his envenom dmg
hes playing the spec terribly wrong
analog seal
I know
tropic ocean
hes playing meticulous schelming but fails to proc the buff
analog seal
I haven't mained sin since 8.1 but have covered the basics with him and am trying to get him respectable (more rogues and all that)
tropic ocean
so he basically plays without 1 trait half the time
swift trail
Shrouded suffocation isn't really usefull in raid isn't it ?
analog seal
no, he should be running heart of darkness on that piece I think
patent topaz
he doesnt even open with garrote playing ss subterfuge
swift trail
3 double dose two heart of darkness and one nothing personal
patent topaz
then vanishes 10 sec in
swift trail
thats the best
tropic ocean
@swift trail thats std raid setup up and u are good to go with it
swift trail
std ?
patent topaz
rank 10 cloak means no proc and low corr resistance as well
tropic ocean
3 ss/3hod/np is strong/very strong when u have access to carapace/nzoth azerite or gorak tuls
std=standard
swift trail
and no bonus stat from cloak
i got some problems as well
on rogue assa
i can't seem to get past the 67 k dps in sim and can't go past the 58/60k in raid
tropic ocean
improve gear/corruption
tropic ocean
farm more
swift trail
i've suppresed my sleep
tropic ocean
its not unusual to do less dps than your sim