#assassination
fleet whale
You don't have a single NP, i would maybe switch BB infusion with NP
vast forum
i sim better with 0 NP
or, well, i sim best with 3x NP vop major but in standard dd build, 2x HoD and BBI sim better than any NP
fleet whale
idk, i think NP helps smooth out the opener, but whatever sims best i guess
strong oak
I sim better without np aswell
karmic fjord
yeah, same here though
vast forum
NP is not needed in opener tbh, you overcap energy during hero
it's much better on subsequent vendettas
patent topaz
my 480 azerite has 2x NP, bote and vop majors sim within 100 dps for me
ripe gulch
is there any way someone can sim shit for me?
i dont have premium
and have tons of different corruptions
cant sim them all
karmic fjord
though it feels clunky with only 15% haste
vast forum
fleet whale
i mean, whatever causes you to get better results
candid jasper
Don't see many sin rogues playing in the mdi 😦
drifting cloud
dont expect any
candid jasper
I find myself doing only mediocre damage on the bosses as outlaw 😦
vestal wren
assassination cant compete with outlaw
it can do great aoe or great st but not both at the same time
so there are trade offs you need to take that you do not when you play outlaw
distant lava
fuu's immense m+ experience is talking again
rigid mango
vast forum
the drawbacks of assa are having to restealth and the slight utility advantage of outlaw
vestal wren
feel free to add context or correct me if i missed sth
rigid mango
It can compete with outlaw.
main jungle
if i go VOP major and triple NP build should i go more with double dose or twist the knife in a pure ST fight like irion?
also what would be the stat priorities? still full haste crit?
vast forum
raidbots will tell you that
clear horizon
what addon do pros use to see when a spell is coming to interrupt
or setting
doesnt have to specifically be rogue
shrewd iron
wdym
neat plover
i'm a pro floor licker, i use DBM and the cast bar of the enemy to interrupt.
honest vessel
i have my targets castbar in the middle of my screen, directly over a bar for the cd of my kick
and then a focus castbar not too far away for focus kicks
usually you fall into a rhythm of when the kicks show up in the fight
crimson palm
@clear horizon https://wago.io/Rh8IFmqMl
idle ember
what kind of corruption are yall running with 3x NP,vop
ebon shore
Hey everybody, i would like to have some advices to upgrade my dps (i started to play rogue one week ago ~), here is my sim full buff :
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gyPguNy2H47incnMJQxYQ7
arctic walrus
better azerite and trinkets, more corruption, the correct mechagon rings, and probably a minor to replace vision
ebon shore
Which mechagon rings do i need? Are u talking about passive stats( haste etc..) or active stats ?
Which minor do i need? I have them all, i saw that every assa rogue used it in raid
For azerite and trinkets i’m waiting for drop from raid
arctic walrus
sim your minors out, don't blatenly copy other players unless you know the specifics behind their choice. You want behind the back/3 ability and haste rings
idle ember
getting a 900 dps difference from CLF/Blood 2x HoD 2xDD vs VoP x3NP x2hod and a DD... realistic expectations?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
idle ember
any feasible reason to hold TB for a vop major proc? is there anyway to track it expectantly or is it 100% a crap shoot random.
honest vessel
nope not reasonable to hold
sudden brook
question
doesnt subterfuge seem like a weird talent
with the whole ambush thing coming back
arctic walrus
I don't think sin will use ambush to open from stealth regardless
civic palm
inb4 Ambush Garrote Rupture opener > _>"
untold current
Is there anything about drest that makes twisted appendance attractive as a corruption? I just notice that almost all the top logs for rogue are running multiple
civic palm
MMMMMMMM, having MA and Ambush is interestiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing > _>
arctic walrus
They're top logging and running an entirely rng based corruption gee I wonder what the correlation could be
drifting cloud
theyre weebs so their TA does more dmg
untold current
I dont really see many running infinite stars tho. Would that be because of all the target switching? Does tentacle just switch targets maybe?
arctic walrus
tentacles it doesn't matter who it targets
stars though gains immense value from stacking, which is not going to happen on multiple target swaps
uneven turret
is sin any different in the alpha atm. anyone got an idea on whats going on?
vague rock
get me alpha access and i'll tell you 🙂
arctic walrus
where you want to look for your rotation
naive vigil
somewhere near the center so i can see when my procs happen but i guess it doesnt matter
strange python
better to learn to play without
naive vigil
im new to rogue so i've been using heliki im always open to advice on how to play
like that
strange python
i dont think you'll learn as fast if you rely on it
naive vigil
im only level 87 i have time
but why is it better ot play without?
is it so i can get a better understanding of what each spell does and how its used?
strange python
well ideally you wanna know when to press what and why
so you can make educated decisions and adapt to situations that arent scripted
drifting cosmos
Learn the opener and it will tell you a lot about skills and priority
vague rock
it's not even that, it's just you want to put your attention towards things that are happening in front of you and around you
naive vigil
well usally when it says to use ven on trash i dont as its usally wrong
well im in general but its late ig around here so yal can yell at me
im more of a hands on learner
but since i've been using heliki i've grown to it
any suggestions?
sharp dawn
Are there any resources anyone can point me to that explain how combat is supposed to work? I'm a new player to WoW and in the absence of understanding what I'm supposed to be doing, it just seems like i stand near an enemy and button mash until they die, or I die
surely there is more to it than that?!
raven mica
#wow-general for that kind of question, also classic or retail, and also just look up what tab target combat system is
royal lantern
btw, combat in stuff bellow max lvl tends too be a bit boring because...well....nothing is really happening, you really just hit stuff until its dead because EVERYONE is supposed too somewhat beat that content
scenic wyvern
Any idea what might work better in Mythic+'s.... 3xEB, 2xDD, 1SS. or 2EB, 1DD, 2SS & Heart of dark. Not sure how to sim mythic+ dmg
scenic wyvern
ty
vast forum
in your case, 2nd option, but try to replace that DD asap
strange python
Aaaah I'm in for Nzoth today.
Plan on going subterfuge cuz it sims very marginally lower than MA in PW and is nice value on 2/3 Targets.
Mby even gonna Exchange 1 HoD for SS, idk. Gonna look into some Sims later.
Seems logical to me, but didn't have time to check any Timings or logs yet.
Makes sense or do people with experience have different thoughts?
faint harness
mythic or heroic?
strange python
M
Didnt do any pulls yet
On mobile right now due to easter stuff, probably gonna be home like 10mins before raid
Thats why i'm asking for some thoughts. WCL won't load, neither will YouTube
cobalt pelican
i think my thoughts on best builds are either np heavy vop minor or just a regular shrouded based build
the more damage you can fit into small windows where you actually get to hit the fugging boss the better, at least it feels that way to me
faint harness
entire last phase is like a patchwerk with some downtimes
and thats where ur dmg truly mattesr
and its like 6.5 minute long
any top log you see on this fight is more or less playing for psychus
and on prog its not necessarily you thats supposed to blast psychus
Personally still not doing any psychus, so my overall log is garbage, like 13%
but its a top log on boss dmg
cobalt pelican
tbh i'm still not sure how much of my downtime in p2 is due to the nature of progressing in a hectic mess and how much is just the fight but
even still when my 3np bote set sims less than 1k lower than my 'epic full uptime clockwork heart build' i think i'll just continue playing it anyway
i don't have the gear to play ss, but i'd imagine the same thing holds
cobalt pelican
mm
faint harness
the tripple SS build seems to be psychus pad to me, might be wrong
cobalt pelican
it's just like, dd and hod get such little value any t ime you have any downtime
that if i had a set t hat was super centered on vend window and CLOSE sim wise i can't see a world it's not better
cobalt pelican
even when filtering to the final phase/p2?
or just throughout the full 12min or whatever
cobalt pelican
yeah, across the entire fight dd is good for sure
i'm purely thinking of boss damage, not really sure
maybe i'm overestimating the downtime
but it feels really bad to me right now, especially if the mindgrasp is far
with comfort it will go down a lot
faint harness
from start of p2 to end
but thats with tripple DD
and it sims at like, 10% of my dmg
dark crag
My raid just made it to the 2guy spawn. The only downtime i wittnessed so far is running to the next basher
faint harness
in p2 theres dropping anguish (unless u get melee spot), mindgrasp
and we didnt get melee spots cus holy paladin and MW monk took those
dark crag
I am right next to the tank
faint harness
makes sense due to the amount of healing
and an RM mw that leaves melee = nightmare
dark crag
Hpala on other side of tank
faint harness
we have both tanks at the very back on the first
like hugging the wall way back
with the 2 adds
a minor thing is that you can still use shadowstep after 1 st anguish
so dropping far back isnt that abd
cobalt pelican
i'm waiting for the pull that
we get to final phase
and i shadowstep boss
and instantly perish
faint harness
last phase is really simple for rogues
since we skip 1 of the anguish with cloak
so we only deal with like 2-3 mechanics
then full nuke
cobalt pelican
seems pretty simple in general tbh, kinda just waiting for the ranged to get used to the beam anguish overlap
faint harness
the beam anguish overlap was a big problem for us too
but we moved the 1st anguish slightly more towards left
and that helped a lot
cus then the choice becomes clear, the 2 beams you can get becomes = beat it and stand still
instead of the RNG fiesta of not knowing if you can beat it or not
cobalt pelican
do the first beams not cause you issues if you move it to the left
or do you just follow really far
faint harness
well its not a big move
talking 4-5 yards
just enough to not have the beam spawn in the face of ppl dropping anguish
and we use warlock gateways there
so it shouldnt be a problem
cobalt pelican
yea
even just looking at your kill though like
you're 50/50 split on the first beam
when that happens to us we miss our link and die
but we dont have
350k hps monk
so
faint harness
cobalt pelican
like if this ever happens to us
we just bleed out
if not on 2nd anguish, by the 3rd nobody can get topped
drifting cloud
I dont bother beating 1st
faint harness
same
cobalt pelican
tbh if you play elusiveness you can kinda just do whatever you want i think
faint harness
i drop very close to where we end up
cobalt pelican
but i'm trying to herd sheep and it's hard to make a call sometimes
faint harness
u raidleading?
cobalt pelican
kinda
faint harness
drifting cloud
Im not playing it and its still easy with decent timed vials
faint harness
do you even see anything
cobalt pelican
i'm like defacto guy that talks in a guild with no raidleader
i'm prolly gonna play elusiveness from here out tbh
my cheat has only procced once before p2
and it was because i
walked straight into anguish in psychus
while drinking water
and nah not really it's kinda an issue like
faint harness
i actually played leech on our first kill
i know its a meme
but i felt more safe in p2
pretty sure i got a rank 1 healing log from it
cobalt pelican
gamer move
drifting cloud
I dunno I know both are better but im literally never dieing in p2
I prolly hs once every 10 tries
cobalt pelican
if you never feel in danger it's kinda fine to stay cheat i guess
but it's just like
30% damage reduction on 500k damage on every single one
drifting cloud
Doesnt last long enough for the whole dot does it
drifting cloud
Or do you take 500k in 4s
faint harness
ye our MW monk got some expedients upgrades after 1st kill, so on our 2nd kill almost no one dropped sub 50% hp in all of p2
no need for leech now
drifting cloud
Likr ive "perfected" vials usage lmao
drifting cloud
Use it when 2nd goes out it comes back 1s after mindgrasp
cobalt pelican
so i guess not quite 500k
drifting cloud
Dont need on 1st since stacked in barrier anyways
faint harness
ye
cobalt pelican
i'm one of those small brainers
faint harness
2nd is the msot dangerous one almost
faint harness
i doe the same
its just a reflex
its high value to feint the big explosions in heart chamber tho
like theres no other dmg going on
but every bit helps i guess
strange python
Trying to catch up. Can you not feint the aoe explosion that nzoth does?
faint harness
you cannot feint evoke anguish
its a dot kinda
unless you run elusivenss
i dunno what "aoe explosion" you refer to
cobalt pelican
prolly eternal torment
faint harness
those should be aoe
cobalt pelican
they are
strange python
Yeah we’re still at raden so I’m a ways out and we don’t do heroic anymore so boss ability names are a little hazy.
faint harness
not doing heroic at all?
cobalt pelican
i don't even do it for the ap anymore i keep meaning to use my save for boosts but i get lazy and forget
faint harness
ye i dont do heroic either, but during prog and we extended nzoth i coined heroic every week
cus theres no point sitting on em
cobalt pelican
i join raden during our alt heroic sometimes and coin
but now i don't even want that
so idk what i would even coin
faint harness
got double slappers?
cobalt pelican
i have 1 but i have like
td1+td3+unguent mh for outlaw
which is 59
or 56 now i guess
drifting cloud
That reminds me I was checking top nzoth otl logs
And theyre running like 70 corr 
faint harness
you can vanish most of the things
faint harness
if thats with 70+ corruption
still good i guess
but im pretty sure outlaw can avoid every single thing
blind/vanish rotate
drifting cloud
You prolly have to save vanish for overlaps I guess
cobalt pelican
are you sure they're even holding it
chinese men sound like the types to just
not make the outlaw rogue immune
because he's busy rolling the bones
cobalt pelican
our 8 includes 2 dhs already
we have 9 most raids actually
2x dh 2x mage me 1x hunter 3x paladin 1x death
faint harness
i hope they reduce the need for immunities
cobalt pelican
even just to 8 or something fuck
faint harness
lower the dmg on evoke anguish so you can soak all of them
cobalt pelican
10 is so obnoxious
drifting cloud
Whats the number on alliance hof
faint harness
70 something
drifting cloud
It will get nerfed when it fills
drifting cloud
Were 18% and I dont know if it dies in 5 or 50
cobalt pelican
idk how many pulls you have on us but we've had some REALLY scuffed raids
drifting cloud
Or more :)
cobalt pelican
last 2 have been decent atleast
cobalt pelican
we're on ~130 i think
but eh
we had a raid where we had our shadow priest playing holy and just pressing all his cds for fun
faint harness
this fight gets fucked by ppl getting more gear than any other end boss in recent times imo
becomes a joke with more dmg
cobalt pelican
because we only have 4 healers cause our 5th made a coronavirus website
drifting cloud
After chamber people just DEAD 3rd anguish
cobalt pelican
and is famous now
drifting cloud
Im usually last one standing
cobalt pelican
probably not
drifting cloud
And I havr to thots before they smack me
cobalt pelican
i didn't inquire too much
faint harness
some guy who made a coronavirus website that tracked every single country got famous recently
just 17 or something
turnt down 8 mil dollars from some cmpany that wanted to run ads
"i dont need money"
faint harness
for sure
cobalt pelican
unlucky
but i don't think this guy is that famous
i think he was like
famous
[in france]
not globally
idk he's one of those people who's so french i barely know what he's talking about half of the time
so when he was telling me what he was doing i was just nodding and saying yes
faint harness
ah you're EU
cobalt pelican
americans yuck
faint harness
anyway
drifting cloud
Hes not eu technically :pepeclown-1:
drifting cloud
I clicked it blame discord
cobalt pelican
i think i'm gonna stick to my bote 3np vop minor memes for now
i wish i had raden helm i'd try out shrouded
but i'm not playing scent of blood on nzoth
i refuse
drifting cloud
I like 3 np
faint harness
scent of blood
drifting cloud
Also got r1 boss on hc with same setup
cobalt pelican
what boss hp do you get after 1st burn ryler
drifting cloud
But was mostly because of IS I guess
cobalt pelican
we still have some drunk people
drifting cloud
88 on average
cobalt pelican
i was looking through our logs last night and realized for an entire r aid a warlock was using infernal on bashers at 2:00 with lust
drifting cloud
88.smth
cobalt pelican
ok so we don't suck too bad then
drifting cloud
Our boss dmg is kinda mediocre
cobalt pelican
i think we can get like 86.5~ without my playing vop major and having an extra warlock cd
drifting cloud
Like any tier
drifting cloud
I dont
cobalt pelican
rn we use 1 meta and 1 crusade
and kill it just about on time
gonna shuffle some stuff today
drifting cloud
Ours isnt dieing too fast but 2nd one kinda is
Theyre just not smart enough to figure out what to delay and I cba
cobalt pelican
kinda same
faint harness
think we have him at 85.5 ish on average after 1st burn
faint harness
but we also have him at 34-35% before going into heart chamber, last 2 kills
which is a 10% overkil
from what you actually need
drifting cloud
Yeah ok lol
faint harness
anything below 45 seems feasible
faint harness
40 is more than enough to kil
cobalt pelican
god
my guild is so fucking STUPID sometimes
the first time we finished p2 without half the raid dead
like 5 people just walked over
and instantly clicked the gateway
drifting cloud
We have a wa counting down
drifting cloud
And the more I tell people that its only for tanks
cobalt pelican
reloes weakaura pack or w/e
faint harness
do you have a gateway from boss to heart chamber portal?
drifting cloud
The more people leave at 5
cobalt pelican
(kinda)
faint harness
also if you autowalk as you leave heart chamber you will walk during the cinematic
and end up at boss
its the small things
drifting cloud
Anyways dumb boss
Waiting for people to stop fucking up so it can die pretty standard rogue life
faint harness
ye
feels like rogue is one of those classes
that can avoid a lot of shit, quite easy mechanics
so you spend 150 wipes just waiting for others
cobalt pelican
tbh that stuff is kinda chill
but i enjoyed it way more when i could just
turn my brain off and music on
now i have to pretend i know what i'm talking about
faint harness
ye our RL says the same
but he's been RL for so long now that he wouldnt be able to relax with someone else calling the shots
rigid mango
Imagine having WA's to tell you shit
When you can have a tired german doing timers for you on voice
faint harness
neon glen
For m+, when to use BotE vs iris and poison bomb vs crimson tempest?
Havne't found anywhere in guides, so if it's documented please point me to docs
cobalt pelican
iris probably only if you're playing 0eb and have stupidly high crit already
and poison bomb vs ct just depends on pull size and priorities, large packs for the majority of the dungeon with no worries about st = ct
other = pb
neon glen
cool, tyvm!
hoary crown
All make a ticket that we want vendetta as a buff on ourself instead of marking a target ;))
quasi pewter
sour glade
So for keys I have triple SS triple EB so it feels like blood is the play. My only question is should I run VoP minor so I can sync blood/vend on bosses?
I can't tell if it's worth because running VoP I love C&S minor
tacit pebble
is there a way to sim prefonting for rogue
scarlet sequoia
?????????????????????????????????
the apl does in fact, believe it or not, prefont
if u speculate it for 10 seconds
scarlet sequoia
probably not the move considering vendetta and combust are two different things
tacit pebble
reason i'm asking is this is whats doing best for me for a 1 minute window
and i'm just curious if stacking the galecallers with every other cd is more beneficial than losing half the font uptime
clear horizon
so for master assassin talented
you just run around applying rupture to everyone and garrote when available and then spam fan of knives
and then use toxic blade on an enemy of your choice
is that how u do it
fleet whale
for what situation? are you using Master assassin in M+?
clear horizon
every situation ig
yes
and if theres only 2 enemies you use mutilate on an enemy of your choice instead of fan of knives?
rigid mango
Never ever use MA in m+
clear horizon
what do u use instead
rigid mango
Subterfuge
clear horizon
dont u need shrouded suffocation with it
rigid mango
I mean it for sure is great
Also running sin in m+ without any SS traits is trolling
And subt is better than MA in most scenarios even on singletarget nowadays 🙂
clear horizon
ok
i just chose ma cuz i figured in the next expac azerite armor would be irrelevant but ig i can try subt
@rigid mango so would i use this opener?
rigid mango
For ST? yea
clear horizon
one more thing
do you do the entire opener on 1 target before applying garrote and rupture to other targets
potent escarp
So I'm back from a little hiatus, and im checking the pins. I don't recognize the abbv G1, G2, G3, or R1
can someone fill me in
patent topaz
g stands for garrote and the numbers are for targets
r is rupture and the same for the number
subtrefuge allows you to use 3 empowered garrotes from stealth before it fades so you use it on 3 targets in a multi target setting
potent escarp
Gotcha. Tyvm
jolly star
mind having a look at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3zpCRfN6a2KBTyYh#fight=34&type=damage-done&source=1
feels like im doing a bit too low compared to other logs - how can i improve here?
arctic walrus
Your opener is wrong, check the pins/guide for correct order
A lot of your tbs you go into with 0 cp, you should be using tb at max and then envenoming, you do the eopposite
You’re foking on 2-3 targets, don’t just use mutilate on your main target and spread bleeds
You used bote randomly when it came off cd, use it with every vendetta
Over capped a little bit on mutilate cp, again don’t do that you can finish at 4-5 cp, unless you’re using tb then overcapping is fine
molten moon
Is ineffable truth worth considering
jolly star
thanks @arctic walrus
fleet whale
probably not
molten moon
i just imagined it would have a significant impact on vendetta / TB uptimes by lowering CDs, but i guess sims hate it
lethal heart
patent topaz
RIP
marble hemlock
rose violet
trying to please his master
clear horizon
question: if i have max combo points, do i still apply garrote when opening on a target?
using subterfuge
vast forum
SS traits?
winter gale
Anyone can maybe tell me a weakaura command for text for those 9 seconds when Toxic blade is up
If I put progress (%p) it shows timer for every gcd, it goes like 0-1 😄
And Cooldown Text is hidden since its totally different in size and font
clear horizon
@vast forum no not rn
vast forum
if you're at full cps and opening, you can go rup-gar
with subterfuge without SS, it doesn't matter exactly when you use the garrote, just gotta use it in those first 3 globals
clear horizon
k thanks
cosmic prism
http://prntscr.com/ry1wfp how exactly does this work?
silver pond
from what I understand it'll give you an extra combo point till it fades
that doesn't get used when you use a finisher
sadly I don't have alpha so I'm not really sure
frozen karma
Was watching Dratno's video and he said it gave you like 3-4 animacharged CP and if you finish your spender with that amount of CP it will act as if you spent 7 CP
@cosmic prism
cosmic prism
ah ok, watching vid now, wording made it seem like only gave 1 'charged' CP so felt like it would be the correct play to use a 1 CP finisher?
sonic echo
For nzoth do you guys go aoe gear or st?
drifting cloud
st
fallow peak
I’m looking at some mythic logs and seeing top parses using vision of perfection as a major ... with 2-3 np is that viable for those of us not at the spear point? I’ve mostly been running clf
quasi pewter
only use it if it sims better, ur in pure single target and ur not progressing
fallow peak
Correct lol, we are not progressing
quasi pewter
then feel free to try it out
only works well on pure single target though
and im pretty sure it wont sim better if you dont have azerite from last 2 bosses
fallow peak
Gotcha
left peak
Read the supposed class changes for shadowlands sounds like not much will change for assassination of course I’m sure the covenant ability is neat but yeah
surreal bolt
Is bote worth using in m+ at rank 1?
surreal bolt
So beam until then I guess
strange python
Ye
surreal bolt
Is worldvein mostly just a st essence?
strange python
Or BotD r3 If you have that and can be bothered to Play around it
surreal bolt
I have that but at the low ilvl that I am I think beam supports me more
At least for now
I have zero big aoe burst otherwise
strange python
Well it's not really suited for M+, but it's flat AGI. So it scales everything, even AoE.
The biggest Problem is simply staying in range of it most of the time, which probably wont Happen in M+
surreal bolt
That’s true
tulip star
i'm pretty new to all of this but why does a +15 at most give me 1000 dps upgrade? is it because my essences are too low of ranks?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wzanceqHCgMtDRABgEpx9h
strange python
You sadly missed comp stomp week, that was pretty easy and fast
surreal bolt
Damn
strange python
But just doing the daily normal and Epic BG win will get you there at a steady pace
Or Mby Check when the next Honor boost week is, and target Farm it then
quasi ledge
BG week next week, still slow as fuck compared to Comp Stomp though :p
I think next week at least
surreal bolt
Just add it to the check list of daily shit to do
fading stag
could someone remind me what dungeons you take ct vs pb?
mortal heath
hey guys im extremely new to WoW and ive been going through the server and honestly got really overwhelmed lol
but my first toon is an assination rogue and im looking to play arenas pvp pretty seriously and was wondering what tips you guys have?
i think this is the right chat for that?
but if it isnt im sorry.
feel free to dm me if you guys can provide me any tips lol
thanks :)
elder crescent
OK Ive got a weird one for you Assassin pros. Raidbots sim is not showing the break down for Nothing Personal when you slot Vision of Perfection as your major Essence, ive confirmed that when Vision of Perfection procs, it indeed puts that poison on the target. Raid bots, however, does not show Northing Personal at all when I have Visions slotted, but it shows up fine when Condensed Life Force is slotted as main.
The difference for me in DPS is about 3k, but without those numbers showing up from Nothing Personal, or the versatility and the extra vendetta time, Im wondering if it might end up better or at least an option.
elder jasper
I have a slight stupid question for the better assassination players, does the "Nothing Personal" trait stack with it's poison damage?
drifting cosmos
Yes
haughty vault
First time I tried Ogrimmar with HVs, maybe it's this annoying scorched feet, since people kept telling me how easy it is, whilst for me SW is so much easier. That being said, this is the first time I do it as melee. Maybe that's the difference.
fast fog
Anyone have and idea which is better, Self-Cauterizer or Absorb-o-Tron in a mythic plus scenario?
frank geyser
in case you do play absorb-o-tron you have to keep in mind that it does not stealth with you
dull osprey
is pooling still the go to method for TB? I'm trying to figure out why I fell like I'm pulling less dps than I should on ST
latent field
As long as your not delaying it to pool
dull osprey
ahhhhh that might be it. Been delaying it on the first rupt refresh and whenever I have less than 13 sec on my rupt
found that if I dont refresh before going into TB window, I have to refresh duyring
latent field
Yeah tb on cooldown
dull osprey
even if I'll have to refresh rupt during?
latent field
Managing rupture and not refreshing during tb is a smaller optimization
But never delay tb, try to be spamming it as it’s coming off cd
dull osprey
roguer that
glacial steppe
holy, carapace is boring until p3
royal lantern
yes it is
faint harness
@glacial steppe wait until nzoth, more of the same
glacial steppe
already decided to play it as outlaw
scarlet sequoia
no
echo crest
i see some classes unlock new potencials with the % curruptions any special thing with rogue?
crimson palm
haste es #1 huehuehue
pseudo hamlet
greedisgood 999999
echo crest
haste build?
echo crest
you have some builds at least
wet ruin
they do open new gameplay
echo crest
i want to know wich is better for haste curruption
royal lantern
@wet ruin dont tell me that vop major is new gameplay man....
wet ruin
I mean its still a bit different, but some people play SS with exsang, which is different, also subterfuge and MA is a bit different
scarlet sequoia
i want to know wich is better for haste curruption
@echo crest
ss exsang build is best with haste corruptions
glacial steppe
@scarlet sequoia gimme all your expedient 
azure shoal
any1 else here 3k haste club 
scarlet sequoia
🙂
worldly sandal
NP is like glimmer in that it scales with ilvl and not mastery correct?
or rather glimmer doesnt scale with intellect but same thing
cobalt pelican
np scales with mastery just fine
cobalt pelican
depends on way too many other things to give an accurate answer
simming should be fine for a question like that though
worldly sandal
👍
vagrant tapir
have both ra-den trinkets 475, raidbots telling me to use them on dungeon slice
edgy pawn
dungeon slice is bad for assa
edgy pawn
😄
feral shuttle
I'm still not sure what to play for N'Zoth mythic boys - Seems like there are a lot of high prio dps targets which SIN ST would be really good for - but likewise a lot of cleave as well...which looks like a bursty outlaw spec would do well on...what do you guys think is optimal?
feral shuttle
We're gonna be playing a pretty cleave heavy spec, at least 4 fire mages
That AoE is just a bait then? hmm
scarlet sequoia
dont play outlaw with 4 fire mages
crimson palm
Raz have you tried a combo of Severe pieces with Expedient instead of full Exp
With the standard build
rigid mango
I was gonna say something about assuming he has every corr piece in the world
But at this point fuck it he probably does
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2LAq6TwzuZntPzicY8PrKx it seems like there's a haste softcap
crit having +2 stat weight on top of haste
scarlet sequoia
for your build sure, youre playing an entirely different build tho
radiant fossil
Hi guys, is assa viable for low m+ like 8-12. Or outlaw is far superior ? Im gearing my alt rogue but its gonna be hard to have 2 stuff for pvp and pve.
crimson palm
idd, but with vita and goraks i'm around 90k
and still outsimming the 3SS Exs build
latent field
I don’t think it matters much for 8-12. Outlaw will probably do better damage since things will be dying quicker and you might be able to pull big
radiant fossil
Yeah. And at what level of key assa become "good" ?
latent field
It’s more about the way your group pulls and if they need priority damage. If in doubt go outlaw
rigid mango
Shit just play assa everywhere
in those keys the diff is irrelevant
and in higher keys it's nearly no diff
People prefer playing with outlaw utility and people prefer playing assa, both have shown to be able to compete at the highest level
lean marten
especially tyran week just doing 15-18s assa is great
radiant fossil
Oki, i'll stick to assa then ! Thx for the help.
rigid mango
gl famalam
strange python
I know blade flurry is “target capped” next expansion but has anything been discussed as to target capping for sin or sub?
lean marten
subs shurikan storm hits all targets, not sure about assa FoK
strange python
Can i use evasion on any spells @ dresta?
worldly sandal
is there any good guide on properly using the x3 NP build? its simming the highest for me right now but i want to make sure im doing it correctly
crimson palm
Yes, it includes praying 5 times a day 7 days a week for the entire patch duration
royal lantern
every VoP build ever
wild edge
with vision do i use vannish with vendetta or on cd? checked some logs and saw both
quasi pewter
On cd
sterile ocean
are people still running 59 corruption or they doing 79?
quasi pewter
Most are running 59 for mythic farm
clear horizon
in dungeons do you do the single target rotation on groups of trash or only bosses
for subterfuge
sterile ocean
ah my guilds progging on mythic hivemind and i got a a crap ton of twisted appendeges on and i got a few twilight devs sitting it my bag but i cant slap em on
lone junco
@clear horizon in m+, you would tend to use at least 1 ss, and hit 3 targets with garrotes, then a rupture, then with Echoing blades + enough crit, you can go into fok env spam.
lone junco
you would typically time your vendetta for a few baddys, and bosses
royal lantern
your rotation skill is off the charts
lone junco
@tropic ocean thats what my Arena logs looks like.
lone junco
i got R3 tendy first. only R6 cloak, but thats all i need. just open when tendy procs, i kidney dps, and blind healer. then go to town with smoke.
tropic ocean
now imagine when u have t6 tent
strange python
how does vop major perform in aoe fights? if u want to go for boss damage but if its drestagath
tropic ocean
:>
for drest go breath major for sure
I don't think any essence is competable on drest to breath major
strange python
my RL wants me to maximize on dresta boss damage
tropic ocean
yeah snipe tent/eye/maw so u can blast 400k breaths into boss
pliant roost
hey, whats the best lvl 100 talent to use for Sin for pushing keys? seeing all the 3 used on raider io.. is it situational?
lone junco
people arent memeing HB anymore are they?
used to be only PB, then occasional CT. not sure about anything anymore.
tropic ocean
its not a meme it works fine
pb usually for lower trash dungeons or tyran
ct for high trash dungeons/fortified/teeming stuff
I started using hb sometimes in siege so I can pad into low hp packs :>>>
being top dps doesn't necessarily means you need to do the most dmg but deny your teammates their dmg
pliant roost
lol. ah thanks. was surprised seeing people play HB tbh..
fleet anchor
Yeah Ausr, pretty much the main reason this is probably the tier I care the least about pushing parses for in the history of parses 😛
"Just get good TA luck" is basically page one of Rogue in a nutshell lol
tropic ocean
but to come back to hb @pliant roost its very useful for dungeons/pulls that are a hivemind style of fight
where you have downtime between packs so it can stack up
fleet anchor
Then get a 50% parse the next week when TA only does 5% of your damage instead of 30% 🤣
tropic ocean
or on stuff like 2nd boss siege
main blaze
Imagine corruption + gear swapping in m+
candid jasper
I'm finding assassination better this week tbh
sly ferry
sim for ST is telling me to purge my carapace dagger, and roll with exp 3 and sev3 im also wearing IS3 pants, does IS lose way more value then twisted appendage in multi target?
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor
getting more and more used to it
AWP MAIN
got some weak aura that plays "ka ching" when u actually kill the mob with it
10/10 satisfaction gameplay
@sly ferry yes way way more
sly ferry
hmm
main tendon
Hey i never pvp as assassin before, what should i use as normal talents, pvp talents and essences?
white wyvern
main tendon
ty
placid dawn
candid jasper
SLICE N DICE!
😄
and with shiv replacing toxic blade and being baseline
there may be some toxic blade and exsang play
seems pretty fun
keeping up dice, toxic blade and then choosing exsang
fleet whale
honestly that just seems clunky as hell
reminds me of legion pre-patch assassin gameplay but even worse
fleet whale
it's not so much about button count as much as it is about ability flow
you just can't slap a bunch of abilities on a spec and call it a day
gray abyss
dumb quesiton but im a noob at assassination in pvp, should i always use the wound poison over the deadly in arena? or should i use deadly for comps that dosent have healer? like double melee and stuff like that?
buoyant flicker
i usually use wound for anyone that can self heal
latent field
Deadly against double mage 
crimson palm
Buy it if you need it, those people maintaining raidbots need something to live off as well
tiny finch
Hello!, are you guys aiming for a haste treshold or should i just go with sims?
this one gives me 39 crit / 17,3 haste / 44.2 mastery and 7 versa
sometimes i feel energy starved even pooling, thats why i ask
cobalt pelican
there are no thresholds really, no certain haste cutoff makes you able to do something specific you couldn't do before that point
tiny finch
gotcha, so there isnt a "too low" value for haste right
cobalt pelican
and to be honest running out of energy sometimes should be thought of as like
not a bad thing at all
tiny finch
im working on my póoling with toxic blade
cobalt pelican
with expedient you might smooth out your gcds and feel like you're doing more damage because less dead gcds but
tiny finch
aiming to put at least 3 envenoms without having to refresh garrote or rupture
cobalt pelican
pretty much yeah
tiny finch
i really dislike the tentacle play, but nothing i can do about it
RNG is a bitch
i have the same feeling for infinite stars
fleet whale
even if assassination still has one of the lower apms in the game i really don't feel like i'm ever resource starved
def not global capped but it's hard to explain
tiny finch
it happens sometimes after the bursts, or when i do not get any haste procs
vita, Overwhelming power, quick nav, etc..
fleet whale
It might be also because i have like 32% crit too, and more crit does make things feel more smooth
tiny finch
indeed
more cps
opener feeels great with blood of the enemy
and the 2nd vendetta feels even better
with coral
fleet whale
But assassination definitely isn't a slog like how it felt in Uldir
tiny finch
reminds me of arms execute, but for 6 seconds haha
arms execute now its like a coral / blood / vendetta on steroids
fleet whale
it also has that broken azerite trait
tiny finch
i wish we had some kind of execute tbh
ah yeah
those 21k strengh bonuses with tom
hahahahah
and lucid dreams
fleet whale
notice how all the great specs in the Waking City all have absurdly broken azerite traits
tiny finch
yeeee
the fact that i can swap my font for a vita makes me happy
double on use was not fun for me
fleet whale
i wish i could use my vita... but my 445 socketed vita is still like a 500 dps loss compared to my 430 font
fleet whale
not yet
tiny finch
dont worry youll get it bud
fleet whale
i mean i don't stress too much but my trinkets kill my ilvl
fleet whale
i wish blizz would be open to making broken trinkets in final tier again
tiny finch
lmao
fleet whale
and it could have been done if they didn't make the void trinket such crap
tardy nimbus
Is it me or does mind flay just generally sim low I guess Sims can't account for luck procs etc
fathom swift
They do account for it, it just gets averaged
tardy nimbus
just gonna stick to Mind flay i guess
until this game gives me % haste
got 3% leech today feels amazing
dapper dock
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
harsh tusk
severe and haste corruption over IS rank 3 and mind flays for single target? Been playing outlaw all through mythic but we're now doing Ily, then carapace and switching to assas (boss damage priority)
dapper dock
U all run blood or WV for raiding?
quasi pewter
@harsh tusk dont use infinite stars on the later bosses, mind flay is ok, sim it
@dapper dock blood
dapper dock
Thanx
azure arrow
hey do you guys have any tips or idk maybe an addon that help managing better the bleeds in aoe? im fiding it very difficult to keep an eye out on those while aoe'ing
strange python
use nameplates that present them pretty
azure arrow
you have any recommendations?
mossy sable
I use Plater and a Weak Aura to track it on my target
azure arrow
does it have a conflict with elvui?
mossy sable
WA Shouldn't
strange python
you can turn off the elvui nameplates
azure arrow
oh yeah was thinking about that
mossy sable
I don't actually use ElvUi
azure arrow
ill give it a try tyvm!
mossy sable
I wouldn't know
I use Suf, WA, Dominoes, and SexyMap to get my UI look
Oh and Titan Panel
azure arrow
damn this plater addon looks really confusing
strange python
its a lot you can tune
probably best to grab a profile and adjust it if you're starting out fresh
like from here: https://wago.io/plater/classes/rogue
azure arrow
ty!
unborn pendant
So I just simmed Worldvein vs. BotE and Worldvein is higher. When do I use it in my rotation?
keen dome
On cooldown so its up for every vendetta
agile dew
Would someone mind directing me to a pin for some AOE rotation help?
honest field
I'm noob rogue, but depends on taletns and traits ... what kind of AoE? 3 target? Massive AoE? Stats? 3 garrots rupture mass FoK keep up 3-4 bleeds on pac
but much more efficient is just play Outlaw with fists from Ra-den
edgy pawn
it's easier, not "much more efficient"
you keep up 4-5 bleeds, use fok as a builder and use envenoms on prio targets
keep up CT if talented
inland gull
btw i never liked ct much, so just recently started using, from how many targets is it worth to press?
3?
honest field
yeah and remember CT is not bleed you count as up...
inland gull
and vs 3 you still envenom? if bleeds up and ct up
on mass pulls i figured i just keep envenom buff up and if 5 bleed then fok ct fok ct
like 8-10 target
faint harness
@inland gull playing sin in m+ now are we?
latent field
@rigid mango Is there some large target breakpoint where spamming ct is good? Or at that point is it just Fok spam? Assuming echoing blades
honest field
why would you spam CT?
shrewd night
Why would you spam a bleed
latent field
?
shrewd night
5 points: [(3.6% of Attack power) * 6] plus [(9% of Attack power) * 6] over 12 sec
latent field
The point is it scales with target count, so eventually it outpaces dumping your cp into envenom
shrewd night
Echoing blades scales with target count too?
faint harness
its fun playing EB with high crit
latent field
So the answer is fok spam is better right?
latent field
But without ct spam is an actual thing?
faint harness
big doubts
latent field
Fair
rigid mango
It used to be a thing in s1 I think(?), But is no longer.
honest field
well could be ... look how much do envenom, how much do CT initial and count poison application ... roughly 6 targets +
latent field
Makes sense
honest field
but assa in m+ isn't thing and assa in m+ withou EB is well ... isn't ...
rigid mango
Depends on the dungeon but sure
inland gull
i mean masspulls, like when bote down and u have 10-12 targets
which happen fairly oftrn this week
i only have 2eb
rigid mango
You ignore finishers apart from keeping bleeds up, yeah
worn pilot
why is the best logs guy stacking mastery and playing subterfuge
am i missing something
latent field
Best logs guy?
faint harness
best logs guy is probably running high corruption
so his gearing doesnt matter much
vast forum
logs in the world of corruption 
honest field
logs everytime 
latent field
Why maintain your bleeds when you should be focusing on maintaining your tentacle?
honest field
@worn pilot btw. sometimes is good to give us example ... link, screen or bulbasaurs in jar
faint harness
bulbasaurs in a jar +
faint harness
not even stacking mastery
latent field
Look at those tendies
worn pilot
faint harness
he has 800 mastery
latent field
He’s gemming vers
worn pilot
its not the log i was looking at before
faint harness
VERS BROKEN?
latent field
Vers summons the tendies
faint harness
latent field
That’s why they stack it in pvp duh
honest field
more versa harder tickling from tentacles 😛 every1 low it harder
honest field
haste 🙂 higher chance for tentacles
faint harness
tripple NP, tripple TA vers build
with wrong talents
thats what im gonna play at least once this tier
and pray for procs
so ppl can say "why unbound force, hidden broken?"
soft lily
My Stats are currently (see below) I am trying to push up my Single target damage. Should I keep pushing haste or should I try to get my mastery/Vers up?
faint harness
depends on multiple variables
so theres no one here that can give you a good answer
aka, go sim yourself
shy dust
Use top gear to sim your best gear situation
faint harness
like what corruption are you running, it devalues/values some stats higher. What essences/traits are you running?
its too much
shy dust
There’s too many factors that would go into telling you go haste or go crit vers etc.
soft lily
Siming doesn’t tell you if you have too much of a stat
latent field
Sim stat weights if you want them
faint harness
well, then maybe the idea of having "too much of a stat" is not a thing
go into top gear, use ur current loadout and click every single gem type
voila
brisk forge
dark crag
Be prepared to use premium
soft lily
I’ve been holding off lol
honest field
@soft lily well for pure ST is sim really accurate ... just sim urself with stat weights. Btw. are you aware that you are talking about pure ST and have TD on legs right? also give 1 try to WvR major with Iris in minor (keep lucid and dying)
soft lily
I was wanting to make a 3x TTK build but it doesn’t seem to sim well as im always pointed to take Subterfuge over MA or NS
shy dust
Don’t use stat weights
That’s idiotic
Adding 1 more haste might make another stat better etc.
Top gear much more reliable get that premium
latent field
It’s okay to want a linear approximation sometimes though
soft lily
Im looking to swap my TD to tendrils but Im not very lucky with corruption. Eventually I want to keep them for a dungeon set.
shy dust
TD isn’t particularly good in ST
Tendrils would be much better
And stat weights can just be very misleading
Top gear will give you the answer when it comes to gems
honest field
why 3x TtK? but w/e up too you ... MA is better with DD
soft lily
Just big burst. Was nice seeing 300k crits when I was testing it with 2ttk
faint harness
ye very strange
shy dust
You just use whichever sims stronger between the two in ST
soft lily
Sim tells me to use Subterfuge and use DD
shy dust
Unless you think the 3 second window where you’re more than likely only getting 1 Mut in and hoping it procs DD is meaningful.
scarlet sequoia
++
shy dust
also a 485 dagger
soft lily
I only have rank 2 expedient
shy dust
latent field
Lol raz
faint harness
anyone mentioned 485 daggers
soft lily
I currently have 2ss with gear just waiting on raden helm to complete the set.
latent field
Don’t do that just play what sims best
faint harness
i will never get ilgynoth shoulders or gorak tuls
so the tripple SS exsang build is dead
soft lily
I have gorak
shy dust
What are the pieces you want for the set
faint harness
i want to either play tripple HoD + SS or 2x HoD 1x BBI and 3x SS
honest field
well from 2x DD and 0 SS + sims tells me use MA, and I didn't change anything else ... well as I wrote before ST sim is accurate you can use it ... it depands on many other factors
shy dust
Final 2 boss and Gorak tuls?
faint harness
yep
latent field
90 neck level though