If you want more specific numbers, it's 5 seconds for garrote, 7 seconds for rupture
#assassination
harsh notch
Also for mythic + i've been running this but is crimson tempest* a viable one to choose?
daring olive
What you have is fine
daring olive
Correct
harsh notch
And keep garrote as many as i can off CD?
daring olive
If the pack is going to last a decent amount of time you want to rupture each target for energy regen
daring olive
You only apply 4 ruptures, however, since you cap on energy regen
harsh notch
Oh there is a cap
daring olive
Not a literal one
But you want to FoK spam after 4 ruptures are applied
The pack has to last atleast the duration of those dots though otherwise it's not worth
harsh notch
Yeah makes sense
tawny plank
ay, im breaking 100% crit chance rn on training dummies. thanks for the help earlier
with 3x SS, do you use blood after applying triple garrote?
quasi pewter
there is aoe openers in pins
tawny plank
kk, thanks
serene osprey
"self cd" for mythic shad, cloak or just crimson vial?
rancid bobcat
for what mechanic
serene osprey
the spit
rancid bobcat
I'd just vial and cloak if you seem to be dipping really low
Should only really be a danger if you get targeted with 4 stacks
It's a healer mechanic so they should be able to cover it themselves
harsh notch
I must be doing something wrong.
I'm currently tryint to sim a patchwerk fight 5 min between 3 rings that i ave to chose. These are the results i got https://gyazo.com/d3003fd2cf9c12e08a8110fc2b80246b
One of the rings i have is crit mastery in 445 and the ring i just got it 460 with haste crit... isn't like haste BIS stat for rogues in terms of Single target?
Here are the two rings
On the wowhead guide it says https://gyazo.com/fbeb9b4248cf51f88907dee672420781
I don't really understand why it doesn't sim well
harsh notch
Oh really :o
vast forum
and also, stat weights are volatile for assa, depending on your traits/corruptions/essences, any stat can be top or bottom
harsh notch
Sorry totally new to the whole sim stuff, played healer since start
Yeah i put in enchant and it simmed better
thanks man
vast forum
np
fleet anchor
@tropic ocean So, was thinking about our discussion about Reaping when I did Heroic sales run today lol
On N'zoth
Think I could have optimized it a little better, missed a reset on the triple tendies on gate 2 upstairs
tribal marlin
Is FoK the only spell remaining that will hit all target xD ?
harsh sphinx
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet anchor
@tribal marlin There are a few other random ones like Holy Nova
It's hard to know if it's intentional for FoK or not
If they leave FoK uncapped probably are going to leave the damage really poor though ๐ฆ
Shuriken Storm got capped
tribal marlin
ye saw this
well FoK is pretty low baseline, only EB make it dealing some
but yet, it still uncapped aoe
fleet anchor
Right now it is really only a method for applying poisons
Without EB or any supporting talents the damage is extremely low even uncapped ๐ฆ
We'll have to see what they do
sour glade
I got dagger and chest from carapace tonight, woo. Think it's time to make the main switch from warrior to rogue
sour glade
So running breath major on a raid fight, do you just hit it on CD if it's not a fight where you can take advantage of resets/CD?
runic crescent
is dungeon slice an effective tool for simming m+ performance, or should I do...4 boss patchwerk for 40 seconds?
or hectic add cleave
honest vessel
weird that they capped shuriken storm and not fan
both of them are jack damage anyway
i guess fan crit really needs more
but its not like capping storm mastters
fleet anchor
@sour glade Mostly but you don't use it between 20-80% if it's less than 30s to 20%
sour glade
Thanks, that makes sense.
royal lantern
checked now cus i was curious and botd is "only" 600dps over blood for me
and clf is 800 
neck 85
tribal marlin
@honest vessel note that Shiruken Storm benefit from a lot of steroids
DS + NS + Symbols + FW + SB with potentially Shiruken Tornado into a spam SStorm would deal way more damage than a regular spam FoK for Assa
honest vessel
im down to live in that world lol
good point
crimson palm
Any tips for carapace p2, I fucking hate it ๐
golden kite
Is Flays better than IS for rogues? I only get IS corruption at the moment and it's straight up ass for me. Am I not obtaining enough haste for it?
rocky ruin
Deadly Poison got replaced with Instant Poison in the alpha right?
tropic ocean
@fleet anchor actually big pump
tropic ocean
@golden kite its super potent on st and yes it scales super strong with haste too
golden kite
@tropic ocean Ok, so I should stick with flays then. I have two 35 corruption pieces and 1 75 IS piece. I have two but that's too much corruption and not enough haste. I have more crit and it makes sense why flays is working better than IS. Thanks for the confirmation.
tropic ocean
It depends on the fight
IS is super strong on st (wrathion/shadhar/maut)
TA is just rng proc so sometimes super good sometimes super bad and often inbetween
golden kite
You know, I use it on Wrath and I have no luck. It does proc more on Maut but again, I'm changing gear for more haste.
tropic ocean
can vary depending on killtime as well
longer killtimes usually favor is to get full stacks
golden kite
Killtime is quick, so that could explain why stacks are not being generated enough for good dps.
tropic ocean
but yeah its usually super strong on full ST fights
this from my shadhar e.g. in a 4min fight
golden kite
It just sucks having a 75 belt and having to use two 35 flays pieces to do more.
tropic ocean
TA can be even more rng(higher dps) but is not as consistent as is on st
golden kite
Yea, I somtimes hit hard with IS on that bad boy but it's a hit or miss
tropic ocean
if you can bl on pull it also helps with is stacks, and yeah iris minor, maybe formless void minor and some haste stuff
golden kite
I try to use my CD's when we BL to help IS and it does help sometimes. I'm just torn on what I should do. If I had another 35 flays dagger, I'd stick to it.
Sim picks 75 IS all day over my 2 35 piece for Flays but my data from fights say otherwise.
If the guild doesn't extend, I'll sent you the data for the fights so you can see what I'm doing wrong if that's ok.
golden kite
Right and I do change gear from different bosses because AoE with Assass can be difficult
Thanks again man, much appreciated
tropic ocean
and 3ss+np stack can be viable on somebosses as well
with having a very high burst/prio
and naturally gets better with cleave due to multi garroting
golden kite
Hince why I've been able to go over 2k using assas because of those traits, haha
tropic ocean
nice
golden kite
2k IO*
brisk forge
Can go Way higher then that as assa ๐
golden kite
I plan on it, haha. I'm just saying. I have guildies that run Outlaw because it's wanted/easy. I love assass and make it work.
@brisk forge
tropic ocean
can go way higher on any class/spec but it will also mean to invest a lot of time into the game
pushing rio is up to skillcap just time invest
brisk forge
Ofc, i am 2.7 as assa, hate outlaw so bad ๐ I am not pushing as much as others cuz pugs destroys ur motivation ๐
tropic ocean
idk I enjoy pugging currently pugged to 3,1k as assa
met a lot of cool ppl along the way
golden kite
Damn straight! People see my assass IO and they are like, meh. It's annoying but grps will take me here and there.
brisk forge
But as ausr said, its all about how much time u put into it
tropic ocean
jsut dont get frustrated mostly I think to myself when I get removed cuz of spec "dodged a bullet"
I already got kicked from ppl with -500-800 rio cuz not outlaw
who cares they most likely deplete the key anyway so time saved
golden kite
Yea, I've put ton of a time into running keys as assass. I play this game everyday and I know the disappointment of getting declined. I've been there and done that but I've always proved my dps in every key I've done.
tropic ocean
on the other hand I got invited by ppl with way higher rio than me and had nice keys and learned a lot
give and take just enjoy your spec and have fun
the higher you get the less important is the dps cuz everyone pumps anyway its more about living/control that makes or breaks the key
golden kite
Right. I have high parses on dungeons but I'm sketch on how that works, haha.
tropic ocean
and yeah outlaw shines there somewhat better than assassination but I guess that will matter if you push gear limited keys
dungeon parses unlike logged are not a good measurement
it ranks by intime+key lvl
golden kite
Right and that's what I figured
tropic ocean
golden kite
I usually win overall DPS in my runs and thats over 70k
tropic ocean
like u get naturally 99s by timing higher keys
like u can see i hard deplete 20 boralus
and its still 99
tropic ocean
while 2 chested or 3 chested 15s still give a lower "rank"
it doesnt account for how much dmg u did just intime/not intime and key lvl
golden kite
Well, lately I've been average at 70k lately and I think I'm finally figuring out when to use BotE at the right times
tropic ocean
u use bote always the same way
golden kite
Right
tropic ocean
like this
M+ AoE Openers
With Crimson Tempest talented
G1 G2 G3 CT FoK R1 BotE 5xFoK
Without Crimson Tempest
G1 G2 G3 R1 FoK Env BotE 5xFoK
golden kite
Before, I was fucking it up bad.
tropic ocean
and on boss obviously like in raid
golden kite
Yup! That's the exact rotation I gave someone today
tropic ocean
nice
golden kite
It's good to know others have that rotation because that's what I figured out when testing BotE
tropic ocean
yeah rogue discord is a very active one with lots of high rated players
u'll most likely always find an answer here
some you will like, some you wont
golden kite
I've noticed that but most of it has been helpful.
glass flame
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
drifting light
Hello, was wondering if the vision + Nothing personal option in my sims is rly worth the risk if it depends so much on rng and the difference is ~400 dps
rigid mango
It's fine on single target fights
And it's fine as a parse build
But it's nto something you'd want to run for progress
strong oak
any of you that sim lower with bote and vop but still take it on some fights?
rigid mango
Vop for timers for certain fights when needed
But no, not generally.
Most of the time it's strife.
rigid mango
W/o vop you align bote to vend
strong oak
so wait the 30 seconds or whatever it is
rigid mango
Yus.
rigid mango
Dunno honestly, I havn't done the sims for myself in a while
I run a bunch of meme shit and only really play for nzoth, which I will always use bote for.
drifting light
So for example u would recommend going for the bote build on carapace
rigid mango
I'd recommend bote on every boss apart from drest really
strong oak
gonna try that next reset, I've felt so awkward with guardian, for timings on our kills
rigid mango
Yeh, with the CLF nerfs unless you play a giga haste build like some do, timings on clf can be very punishing
drifting light
alright. I'v had mixed feelings playing with vision honestly. If it procs it feels sooo fucking good but if it doesnt u just stand there being useless :/ But I guess thats what 8.3 is about. Procs
rigid mango
Bote is simple and effective.
strong oak
you run Subt or MA?
rigid mango
I mean vop major is good in its own regard, with 3 NP it's a fun build to try to parse with. But for general progression I would never use it.
I run subt.
strong oak
how many SS? ๐
rigid mango
I would run subt w/o SS
strong oak
really
rigid mango
Esp when running coral and bote, the crit DR is heavy
strong oak
you line bote vendetta and vanish? or just the 2
rigid mango
Subterfuge was only a couple 100 dps behind last tier, possibly even ahead with the semi recent APL changes.
drifting light
yea I also just noticed that raidbots was simming me without potion of unbribled fury and instead with the 20% crit one
rigid mango
I think the sim aligns bote and vendetta but uses vanish a bit later if I'm not mistaken
drifting light
so that kinda fucked my sims previously
strong oak
for new garrotes I'm guessing?
rigid mango
Unbrid v Focused resolve are just up to person sim wise
Yeah you just vanish garrote
strong oak
super duper, thanks alot gonna try this, my rogue has felt so awkward as kill times get lower
drifting light
yea but in general if I run coral and bote the 20% crit just overcapped me every single time and thats why it simmed 1k lower than vision build and I just noticed it today. Sucks ๐
strong oak
I want a coral :/
drifting light
true
uncut cape
hi
strong oak
I know, 19 chances atm, going strong
rigid mango
Took me 17 on progress :^)
strong oak
havent done it this week, so maybe only 1 chance this time though used reroll on ra den
drifting light
yea about that. I'v been rolling hc/mythic raden since the beginning. Still no luck with weapons and just yesterday my guildie dropped a m vita and I rolled 99 :-] Lucky in that part
uncut cape
will there be Shadowlands channel where i can find all rogue changes?
uncut cape
yeah its early
rigid mango
If anything we'll probably be updating the pins to fit a lot of the new stuff unfortunatly none of the staff here got alpha access.
uncut cape
but it think its the best time in wow, talking about things maybe happening ๐
rigid mango
Yeah I mean, feel free to. I wont be posting anything on assa until I personally have access
uncut cape
i rly hope ambush will be strong so we get another button or the bring back Kingsbane ๐
warm parcel
With current tuning its really good
Id rather they make it cost 30 e instead of free tho
uncut cape
so u use Blindside?
warm parcel
And maybe even make it apply a short bleed that interacts with vw
Hire me blizz ๐
Bs rn is trash
Dont even look at that talent
uncut cape
i mean in alpha
warm parcel
Im talking how the talent looks in alpha yes
uncut cape
yeah and its super ealy, i know
nimble mesa
Quick question in my mind: On a boss fight, say 2 adds suddenly pop (let's say Raden). Goal is to apply Rupture on all of them, but since builder will be mutilate, and assuming I have 3 Double Dose, should I aim at making sure I build those Rupture with envenimate buff (increased chance to proc Double Dose right?) or that would be just bullshit difference? I find myself on some fights often without the envenimate buff for sometimes slightly longer moments that I feel comfortable, and trying to grasp how much of an impact that is.
warm parcel
env means fuck all
just dot the targets if you need the dmg
Id more make sure you dont miss out on bleed uptime on the boss itself
uncut cape
interesting Subterfuge sims better then Masterassassin
fleet anchor
btw, was looking at some logs from last night and I was laughing about this one. If anyone was still confused why they are trying to scale back AoE effects, enjoy this abomination.
One button press btw. ๐คฃ
vague rock
the general rule i think for 1 target is Envenom-2x Mutilate-Pool to maximise your double dose dmg but yeah
fleet anchor
That is the sound of a million COMBAT_LOG_UNFILTERED WeakAuras crying out in pain
distant lava
is that the writhing + bladeflurry koji ?
faint harness
a true pad master
brisk forge
Which essence would be best for m+ this week if u dont have bote? :S
is breath good as major?
i mean major essence*
fleet anchor
@faint harness I see no padding here. Just legitimate damage for high priority mobs that totally need to die (before the the Mages ignite kills them.)
๐คฃ
distant lava
I don't even know if I would play assa m+ without blood honestly
fleet anchor
Raz has more Expedient items than the rest of all Rogues combined
strange python
meanwhile im running TA r6 cuz i dont have passive shit
cobalt pelican
at least 52 coins wtf
fleet anchor
I mean the real unluck
Is that he has to slum it with that Racing Pulse item
Instead of having another Expedient III
strange python
Hahaha
cobalt pelican
is there not a point that the racing pulse value is so high from the other expedients
that it does
the own
fleet anchor
haha yeah it could be Nameless. hard to say
Racing Pulse is pretty decent tbh
For us anyway
fleet anchor
But imagine me padding on Carapace last night but forgetting to equip my EB/TD gear for Hivemind. RIP
strange python
I sim 85k with 70 corruption im close to kms with thing from beyond
fleet anchor
But I met my goal of getting my Outlaw and Assassination Heroic All-Star ranks to be identical ๐
Score that is
Not sure if I want to venture into Sub next week
faint harness
fleet anchor
I'm rusty
Mystler would be proud of me if I did, but damn.. I dunno if I can do 3 sets of Azerite
I did roll out Reaping Flames on every fight though. It's so good. haha
Reaping Flames damage percentages for every fight:
Wrathion: 5.6%
Maut: 4.5%
Skitra: 11.6%
Xanesh: 4.8%
Vexiona: 10%
Hivemind: 14%
Ra-den: 7.5%
Drestagath: 13%
Shadhar: 4.8%
Ilgynoth: 16%
Carapace: 7%
N'zoth: 16.7%
ember dagger
what are the preferred essence set ups right now?
crimson palm
Shouldn't it be higher on carapace
fleet anchor
Well if I wasn't EB spamming yes lol
crimson palm
Since you can use it on tentacles/hemorrhages/
etc. etc.
oh ye, eb is affecting the %
fleet anchor
Yeah it's mostly because I did a truckload of damage in P3
From EB/TD
Normally I expect like 11-12% on Carapace
crimson palm
still think bote's better for padding on those adds ๐
fleet anchor
Maybe for that purpose specifically
Iris could be the play too tbh
But anyway regarding preferred essence setups
A lot of people prefer to roll out BotE due to earlier patch performance but personally I just roll out BotD/Lucid/Iris/CnS for everything because why not
Breath I think is simply just better in most situations than BotE but it's definitely harder to use
If your neck level is high, CLF is also an option now
Depends a lot on your gear though and if you are running any hasted effects
crimson palm
Iris is a waste during P2 tho
Dunno
With bote you can dot the stacked organs on the right and use it there
fleet anchor
Not sure how much good that would do in Heroic, they die really fast
fleet anchor
Nah I wouldn't blatantly pad in Mythic haha
Not quite yet anyway lol
Maybe when I am supremely bored in a few months
crimson palm
I mean why not if you're farming the boss
fleet anchor
I mostly use Outlaw for this fight in Mythic tbh ๐
crimson palm
If everyone is comfortable with the dumb mechanics
We started progress yesterday and i'm considering the same, fucking hate P2 as assa
So energy starved
fleet anchor
I've been very flexible about spec this tier, it's a tough one
I think Outlaw is generally more suited for a lot of the fights unfortunately, although Assassination can make it work
crimson palm
Well that Vendetta window with lust + insanity buff is probably making it worth
Since burst will be 300k+ ๐
outlaw can't do that xD
fleet anchor
We have very few Mages in our guild atm so AoE/control is a bit of an issue
uncut cape
hm... playing with Subterfuge without Shrouded Suffocation sounds wrong
fleet anchor
Why?
crimson palm
BM hunters are also good for the AoE
crimson palm
Doesn't have to be mages
fleet anchor
MA has only been used for a pretty short period all things considered.
Assassination has been playing with Subterfuge for years ๐
uncut cape
i rly like subterfuge, its so much more fun with SS, but its soo bad
faint harness
do you think crit on 3 abilities is huge
uncut cape
i rly hate MA
because its only 50%
90% krit ... still didnt krit... love it
im just saying, i wish i could play Subterfuge + SS
strange python
Anyone got Problems with DD being displayed on Enemy Debuffs? Like, it's not in any Blacklist or filtered otherwise so it should show up
but doesnt
cobalt pelican
dd being..?
faint harness
deadly doison
cobalt pelican
ah indeed
scenic forge
Hey dudes another essence question sorry but my guild has started mythic prog and Vop is simming top but it super inconsistent and i feel like im trolling using it on prog should i just use bote?
quasi pewter
yes
scenic forge
badass thanks bote it is then
visual mesa
Hey I was wondering about the mechagon rings, do we have anything as assa rogue to make the "when you attack from behind" proc from the front. Like deep wounds for prot warrior
vagrant tapir
old prism
When is my boy xae gonna be free
cobalt pelican
๐ฎ
slender sandal
what do i need to go exsang singe target?
quartz depot
A metric ton of haste
drifting cloud
Carapace mythic chest helps aswell
slender sandal
well got 2 rank 3 expedients that should help
quartz depot
Lucker
ionic hemlock
So I got a bunch of ilvl upgrades but even when I sim my corruptions kick me in the BHALLZ, at what point is it safe to just ignore the corruption (especially if I have but I can't use because of max corruption)?
teal hatch
So I just tried simming my essences kinda new to rogue, and this is what i got, is this legit or some kind of sim trap ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9mqHcWEkuYU3ksEC9BdEtp
ionic hemlock
Good question, it seems legit to me. At least I know that PP, BOTE, CnS are good solid essences. Just not sure about the force one.
main forge
if that's correct, I'm doing something wrong
ionic hemlock
One more question is void ritual a sim trap as well, should we be avoiding it?
echo cargo
If you're super low crit unbound can pop up in AoE situations
teal hatch
i got 29% crit atm
Does that count as low?
Whats the usuall essences sin rogues uses for m+ ?
ionic hemlock
Well for me my best performing essences are, bote - mjr, iris/lucid/dying for minors
To be honest though if you have rank3 of any of those essences, I would try that I feel like thats generally a very generic but high performing combination
slender sandal
what sort of stats and corruptions do u guys run for tyran weeks ?
main forge
@teal hatch okay that parse had me questioning my own dps >_> looks like you have 5 boss targets selected for that on a patchwerk fight... what are you trying to achieve there?
stable isle
Probably summing for m+ trash packs, lowering the fight length would make that more clear though haha
main forge
for a second at that ilvl, I was questioning what I was doing wrong. I mean after failing to break 40k dps on heroic n'zoth, I'm kind of unhappy about that... but I don't feel like I was failing mechanics wise
where can I improve the most with this: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gmZ9GRqbqyBeRDZDZpj1xZ
patent topaz
essences
teal hatch
Lmfao, yeah that was for m+
Should I lower the fight lenght to get a more accurate sim for that ?
@main forge @stable isle
main forge
you're going to want to adjust the fight, I can't recall a boss fight that will have you be on 5 targets with no movement involved. That's why it sims so high. i am unsure of the how to adjust the error rate, but that is performing your targeting and abilities on 5 targets perfectly.
stable isle
@teal hatch try like 40s
limber plover
if i'm running blood of the enemy without vision of perfection do I hold it until vendetta?
patent topaz
yes
drifting light
I was actually wondering. What do the assa "top dogs" sim for? I feel kinda sad when I see my guildies sim like 95k+ and im sitting here at 86.5k lol
Which isnt bad, its good I guess, but still
strong oak
not a top dog, never done mythic raiding, but my sim is sitting at 81k atm
so you have a lower reference point
drifting cloud
insane geared rogues prolly sim somewhere in the 95k range
if you had that gear on most other classes youd sim 10k more on average or something
royal lantern
@scarlet sequoia somone is asking for a flex sim
royal torrent
Anything other than expedients required to make 3xSS/deeper/exsang competitive ? Or would the same gear sim higher with DDs regardless?
teal hatch
How should I sim Symbiotic presence uptime correctly for m+ ?
vast forum
don't use it ๐
cobalt pelican
it's fine on default if your tank is playing crucible, if not you'd probably need to figure out what people are actually playing
vast forum
but if u absolutely have to, it will depend on what essences your other party members are using
teal hatch
okay so i should i put the uptime on 10? cuz its on 90 atm and simming good for me
cobalt pelican
not sure where you got 10% uptime from
sinful cypress
I'm having trouble understanding corruptions. Sim seems to always want to slot twilight devastation, but charts like herodamage don't rate it very high. Plus that corruption seems to only hit mobs nearby and then wander off
vast forum
are you simming TD vs no corruption?
or are you simming multiple targets?
it's very unlikely TD will sim as your best ST option
sinful cypress
I sim both m+ and helter skelter.
and plugging different combinations of the corrupted pieces I have
vast forum
wtf is helter skelter?
why would you sim that?
for m+, sim 5 targets 40 seconds without hero
sinful cypress
says high mobility + interrupts + boss invulnerability. Seemed reasonable to me :S
will sim that, thanks
cobalt pelican
helterskelter is kinda just some mumbo jumbo sim
it's like every 30 seconds there's something to kick, every 30 seconds you cover 20 yards distance while in combat, you randomly get stunned and the target randomly goes immune
vast forum
why does that even exist?
unless there was ever a boss with those specific timings
but it would be called after that boss i guess
cobalt pelican
there's always just been a ton of simc fightstyles, most of which don't get used
like the ultraxion and beastlord ones were set up to model certain fights
helterskelter is just designed to be a mess i think, which is a strange situation to find yourself in
hollow ether
Is there a list/rule of thumb for abilities which feint will work on? Most importantly while raiding, but m+ dungeons as well.
crimson palm
It says on the spell that the ability has to be AoE
It's a pretty decent rule of thumb
hollow ether
I mean, almost everything you can get hit by in a m+ is "aoe". If a mob isn't targeting you with an ability, is it AoE?
kindred chasm
doesn't really have to do with being targeted or not
its something you kinda just have to figure out honestly
good rule of thumb is, if its something that can hit multiple people at the same time, feint will probably work
hollow ether
so the obelisk bosses. feint will work on the black pools spawned by the blob? maybe I don't have a clear understanding of what "aoe" encompasses.
also dark fury ability by urg'roth. two different types of "aoe".
honest vessel
i think the ground effect, and most ground effects, put a debuff on you that does the damage
so you cant feint that
but the big circle slam you can feint
someone please correct if im wrong
cobalt pelican
honestly you just have to test them, there's not a consistent way to know
hollow ether
that would make sense, and provides me some guideline to go by when looking at other abilities.
cobalt pelican
even just glancing at the old feint raid sheet
you couldn't feint siegebreaker on jaina for example
when all logic would indicate that you should be able to
warm parcel
Yeah there is no logic to feint
Its just if blizz allows feint to work on it or not
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
echo cargo
Feint is just magical honestly
fleet anchor
Feint is exceedingly random
Based on exactly how they implemented the spell
It follows the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law
If something is an AoE trigger that applies a direct sub-spell it doesn't work. If it's actually an AoE, it usually works
So a lot of things that logically seem like AoE don't work
And occasionally random things that don't seem like they are AoE do.
true nexus
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
fleet anchor
But at the end of the day it's just trial and error. Basically every time Rogues get to a new encounter you just have to Feint everything and see ๐
void pecan
Remember when feint healed you? Good times.
honest vessel
valeera pants? Pog
fleet whale
they were nice for the mage tower but you would be disappointed if the Valeera pants were one of the first leggos you got
strange python
Hej y'all!
If i garrote and or rupture then vendetta does the dots already applied get effect by vendetta?
raven mica
There is no more snapshotting in this game outside of feral Druid shit and exsanguinate
strange python
What's snapshotting
fleet whale
the dots scale dynamically so yes they would be buffed by vendetta
even if you applied them before vendetta
strange python
Alright
fleet whale
and snapshotting is that dots don't scale dynamically
faint harness
bring back snapshotting ๐ก
fleet whale
but if you placed a dot with only one second left during a trinket proc
then the dot would carry that proc for it's whole duration, even after the proc itself fades
affliction abused Snapshotting too much, blizz probably won't bring it back
strange python
Wow i did not know that lol
fleet whale
it's been gone since WoD, so it's likely many players probably don't know about it
strange python
Probably not tbh haven't seen it discussed in any guide either tbh
Oh, btw anyone have a good Exsanguinate build/setup
strange python
damn..
fleet anchor
Keep in mind the only snapshotting with Exsanguinate is Haste. Damage still updates dynamically.
It just locks in the tick rate for the duration of the Exsanguinated bleed
crimson palm
Is there a way to check in logs how much damage was reduced by Feint?
tired sparrow
pretty nooby question but why does garrote give 3 combo points sometimes on an opener? if it awards 1 and seal fate gens another on a crit... how does that add to 3?
dense blaze
shrouded suffocation
quasi pewter
tired sparrow
no flame pls im not 120
honest vessel
did it used to in legion? i thought i remembered it critting sometime
sonic echo
Do you guys think raidbots premium / askmrrobot premium are worth it?
edgy pawn
yes
quasi pewter
raidbots premium is definitely worth it
sonic echo
Do you recommend the one with 2m iterations or 5.5?
ionic hemlock
for raids, am I still using bote/m - iris,lucid,breath minors?
edgy pawn
i got the one with 2m
sonic echo
Word. Thank you!
shrewd iron
sim it @ionic hemlock
ionic hemlock
not sure what im simming
shrewd iron
pick everything if you're unsure
sonic echo
For M+, how many bleeds do we keep up to maintain energy for fok spam? Is it 6?
quasi pewter
4-5
burnt dome
Depends on how many EBs you run
burnt dome
4 or more usually with 1 eb
sonic echo
Right on. Thank you
burnt dome
You won't lose out a lot if you start spamming at 3 though
cobalt pelican
in terms of not using finishers? it's a lot higher than 4
edgy pawn
iirc it's 10 with 1 eb
cobalt pelican
i THINK ~11 is about right but i'd need to recheck
if you're still using finishers it's just.. 2 unless you have a target you want to take more damage
burnt dome
Youre always using env/rup to keep bleeds and elebarote up tho unless you really pull big ye
sonic echo
So right now I'm doing g1, g2, g3, r1, fok, ct, fok, r2, fok, fok, fok
Ah forgot about elaborate. Boop I'm dumb
edgy pawn
m+ openers are in the pins
sonic echo
Ah see it looks like there spam fok after the opener
burnt dome
you dont spam 5x fok tho if theres 3 targets and you only have 1 eb
edgy pawn
quite sure you do with eb
burnt dome
you'll use rup/env earlier than 5x fok
edgy pawn
without bote you dont do m+ as assa :p
burnt dome
you dont have bote every pull lmao
sonic echo
Lol I'm gonna get my bote in a minute
I mean, I did it without it, and I pulled 75k overall in motherlode. 470 ilvl
Feels good coach
edgy pawn
thought you meant when youre playing another essence, sorry koek
edgy pawn
no worries
burnt dome
@sonic echo what did you use instead of bote
dull osprey
is there a guide on zandalari troll racials or dothey not matter?
honest vessel
herodamage.com racials i think include them
placid dawn
Guys, when using vision major I should do vendetta on cd right?
drifting cosmos
how do you use reaping in m+? always snipping for 80+ and -20?
and i have seen ppl just doing fine with 3 EB and using beams
arctic walrus
First on pull then executing
If the mob wont get to 20% in 30s then you can use inbetween those 2 threshholds
cobalt pelican
you don't really have open gcds as assassination unless you're playing 0eb
it's just in an odd spot because generally reaping flames wants staggered mob deaths and medium sized packs, but the places you play 0eb are generally low trash dungeons
cobalt pelican
probably the best case scenario for it, yea
drifting cosmos
and yea would be awk for setting up bleeds in opening
also hows its value in boss fights
obvious you dont get high burst anymore
cobalt pelican
it's p good
drifting cosmos
hmm i see
fierce vine
sin or outlaw for drestagath usefulness
cobalt pelican
pretty equal, depends what you plan on doing
if you're actually going to be getting ichor on cd and commiting to the boss, assasination
if you're gonna be running around like an ape outlaw is probably better
both are pretty functional though, so likely just whichever you are better at/have better gear for
fierce vine
ok thanks
dusk narwhal
For M+ how hard is it to deal with the thing from beyond when you go over 40 corruption?
rancid bobcat
it's not very dangerous until you're really pushing keys where unavoidable damage kills you
coarse agate
hey guys, whats the order for use badge/coral on a raid boss?
glacial steppe
Is BotE by default better than CLF or is it boss specific?
pseudo hamlet
BotD for sure is better for N'Zoth carapace because of the reduced CD and bonus DMG after each kill. Not sure if it's better for the fights like Skitra or Maut.
(meant breath of the dying)
glacial steppe
Bonus damage after kill? Did I miss something?
hoary apex
glacial steppe
Oh, lol. Just wondering if Blood really is better since I dont thinl I get too much value out of it playing SS/Exsang
pseudo hamlet
lol sorry, didn't notice it was E instead of D 
glacial steppe
glacial steppe
frigid musk
Raidbots is telling me to get more crit even if i already have 36%, am I doing something wrong ?
frigid musk
ok
slender sandal
Is there an exsanguinate guide somewhere?
vast forum
ofc you want more crit if you're running subterfuge without coral
vast forum
what exactly do you need help with?
worldly echo
VoP
wet ruin
@rocky ruin this is what I could find https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/epC5iqKWyuzX5G9vRb2TKF
tardy pelican
Planning on running sin on some m+ dungeons just on tyran weeks as my outlaw ST isn't great. Can anyone recommend what dungeons would be best? My traits are 3 ss, 2 ttk, 1 np...don't have any eb with ss azerite traits so sort of limited. Off the top of my head I think ill stay outlaw for ML and WM
drifting cosmos
I think your build is purely going for boss dmg
so depends on your group, any dgn with hard boss dps check should be good
rigid mango
Can you swap any of the ttk/np's for HoD @tardy pelican
tardy pelican
Oh, possibly. Not infront of my comp atm to check but ideally drop the ttk for HoD if possible? Keeping one np with the vop minor?
rigid mango
Nah HoD is the best if you can't grab any EB's
TTK is aight too but HoD is really just nutty
tardy pelican
OK cool, I'll have a look. I am a bit of a hoarder when it comes to azurite pieces so ill have a compare tonight. Just struggling for boss damage on weeks like this and I'm pretty much useless when it comes to junkyard for example.
Not doing super high keys but doing 15's with some friends and dps wise we have a BM hunter and a DH who can pick up the slack on mobs
drifting cosmos
no wonder
tardy pelican
Ideally 3 ss>HoD>ttk>np?
rigid mango
Yeah
tardy pelican
I've followed this discord for long enough I know the crack with which stats to stack etc but wasn't sure on azurite pieces and which dungeons to swap for
Cheers Zine
Appreciate it
Sin m+ still stacking TD?
Or worth running some gushing and mind flay?
rigid mango
TD is the best for overall still yeah
I personally have 0 TD pieces on any of my 5 max level chars ๐ so I don't use it
and more so rely on severe, gw and deadly momentum. Some TA in there too
If you wanna go for maxed out damage having TD and some crit stuff etc to fill out the rest of your budget is good
I personally play for smaller packs and more prio/low target cleave whilst other people do all the overall
But in all honesty I havn't done enough m+ this season and mainly raidlog and do a weekly key nowadays ๐
drifting cosmos
its like some of us dont have choices
rigid mango
albeit not as good as it is for outlaw or dh because of lower haste levels
ionic hemlock
@rigid mango mind if I DM you rq to get some help with my sin?
rigid mango
Sure.
drifting cosmos
while seeing other ppl 's TD dmg is top 3
rigid mango
I don't have the choice to run TD but it's kinda w/e
with my setup doing the overall isn't really my job so idm
tardy pelican
No TD on 5 characters....jeez. I was healing a boost group on my pally the other day and they had 2 pieces of leather drop for their rogue buddy with rank 2 IS and rank 3 IS in one run!
drifting cosmos
pug life
rigid mango
I pug but I can still fill a slot ๐
idk, my main has mediocre corruption outside the stuff I've spent literal millions for
drifting cosmos
gw?
rigid mango
Yessir
wet ruin
isn't GW better for m+ though, in terms of damage per corruption
rigid mango
Than TD?
Not for overall no way
I doubt it atleast
TD is still the best for overall, stuff like GW/TA are better for focused/lower target damage obv
wet ruin
I was playing with double GW and rank 2 TD, and my TD is still very close to GW damage, but 20 corruption more
wet ruin
yea, that too
rigid mango
Yeah ofc. And sin doesn't run high haste either so that makes it a bit worse than other specs
But it's still the best for "proper" keys, I suppose.
rigid mango
I mean I run as little as possible
wet ruin
granted I haven't really done higher keys, but from what I've done it was very close for +20 corruption
drifting cosmos
as little as possible like end of legion?
rigid mango
I actually don't know what haste I'm at rn
but both my GW pieces have haste
and I have HoD
16% 
tardy pelican
My 470 GW was swimming higher then my 445 rank 2 TD
rigid mango
(which is high)
drifting cosmos
i mean 12-13 feels really slow in boss fights
rigid mango
Ye that's not surprising
drifting cosmos
but it can just be my feelings
rigid mango
It does, but in reality it's not that bad
Lucid, haste procs like OP etc carry you anyways
tardy pelican
I prefer sin playtime to outlaw so looking forward to playing M+ as sin
Play style *
rigid mango
This is what I run atm, but I've been looking into going hammer on the deadly momentum
tardy pelican
You run torment trinket?
drifting cosmos
isnt it has like 90+ uptime?
rigid mango
In some weeks I can play
I tried it and I sat on like, perma 70%+ crit
Which at that point might make bote a lot worse ๐
drifting cosmos
after buff its uptime is so good
wet ruin
play purification, ez
rigid mango
But that being said, I'd need more EB's before I'm comfy playing that ๐
Rn if anything I'd drop TA for a honed mind possibly
drifting cosmos
is pp good? or cs better
rigid mango
hm?
drifting cosmos
i think pp is too much focused on aoe
rigid mango
I play bote + lucid vop botd in every dungeon
rn atleast
I'd possibly drop vop for strife if I wanted to run this giga crit build with 3 ss eb
little cedar
/cast [mod:ctrl,target=focus] Poisoned Knife;Poisoned Knife
guys how to add this macro that with shift i cast on tentacle ?
wet ruin
I like blizzards decision to put 0 EB on raid pieces ๐
rigid mango
Eh, I actually came to terms with it at this point
I'm happy there was raid relevant pieces throughout the tier
And not having like last tier where you RNG 2 pieces and use 1 from raid
I havn't actually simmed myself w/o a meme build for raids in ages
rigid mango
But yes it does blow now post tier where there's no SS EB pieces in raid
wet ruin
considering you have fights like hivemind
rigid mango
and I'm stuck RNG'ing my 5th turban of the season
:)))))))))))))
Might aswell just throw my residuum down the drain at this point tbh
ripe geyser
@rigid mango which azerite pieces do you run?
wet ruin
I've been rolling for EB and I only got one
rigid mango
For what, m+?
ripe geyser
y
drifting cosmos
๐ 465 ss eb piece for ages
ripe geyser
okok
rigid mango
I'd use raden helm if I had it ๐
ripe geyser
is the dmg increase giga between 2 and 3 ss?
wet ruin
can't complain about my ST gear though, I am pretty much bis and I only need good corruption
rigid mango
Meh I just want SS NP pieces
ripe geyser
I run 2 SS, 2 EB, NP, TTK
rigid mango
So I can go play some fucking dogshit like
VoP major exsang garbage
and get some rank1's and people here will @ me asking if it's a meta build
ripe geyser
but im giga anlaki with corr so I run R6 flay for m+ aswell
rigid mango
Ultimate end game
wet ruin
yep
rigid mango
idk I think I sim like, 6k higher in proper gear than this garbage exsang setup
wet ruin
what even makes it playable
rigid mango
because I lack expidient pieces
wet ruin
the vop major that is
wet ruin
I have 3 NP, but its still like 1-2k lower
drifting cosmos
high haste?
wet ruin
even with masterful
rigid mango
It's a build that's down to RNG and I would never ever use it for prog
drifting cosmos
does haste increase its proc rate?
wet ruin
yea, but I can high roll with tentacles as well
rigid mango
But I'm not well versed in the art of being a VoP major degenerate
wet ruin
which would be better
quasi pewter
high ilvl np pieces and mastery make it good
rigid mango
Since I've always been an avid hater of it
quasi pewter
aka last 2 boss azerite
rigid mango
rigid mango
idk it's still potentially better granted you get the right procs at the right time
Output wise
But again, RNG and it's down to the heart of the cards on what it procs on etc
Using it on nzoth for example, would be like shooting yourself in the knee
wet ruin
just get tentacles to proc on psychus, ez
quasi pewter
in prog atleast
rigid mango
I mean even out of prog I wouldn't use it there like
Proc on a synapse that dies insta
proc on a neuron
quasi pewter
hey man you just gotta be lucky
drifting cosmos
lol
rigid mango
ye I mean seeing the other rogue pop out of psychus phase where neither of us use cds on psychus
and him doing 40k higher dps
Unlagi
wet ruin
got rank 2 boss damage on that one though ๐
rigid mango
I've got dogshit logs on it and I will never even care about it I'm horrid on the boss and that's it
wet ruin
I got to go down last week, so I got a purple there which I am good with tbf
rigid mango
Upgraded my grey to a green this week 
ripe geyser
@rigid mango btw do you run PB or CT in m+?
rigid mango
I never run CT anymore
ripe geyser
Or u switch depending on dungeon and week
wet ruin
big logs
rigid mango
Ikr
ripe geyser
oko
rigid mango
This tier has been a clownfiesta for me and all my good logs were private and now gone ๐
That being said I still think CT is good^^
I just don't feel like it's worth most of the time, and like I said I fill the slot of low target/prio damage in the groups i play with
quasi pewter
some chinese guy went crazy and took my #1 by 18 points
wet ruin
thats quite alot isn't it
quasi pewter
rigid mango
I don't like that my private logs from last guild
are gone so I can't even see them myself
feral rune
swapped from outlaw to assassination went from 0/12H to 11/H so far not bad
rigid mango
not the reason it happened but sure gj ๐
wet ruin
@quasi pewter is that vop simming better for you or you just like to gamble
quasi pewter
it sims better for me
quasi pewter
of course
quasi pewter
rigid mango
wet ruin
how many mastery % or proc do you have
wet ruin
can't win them all
wet ruin
how much are you simming
quasi pewter
93,5 or so
rigid mango
or so
rigid mango
mementos.
worldly echo
hey guys, quick question about VoP minor. when i do a quick sim patchwork at various times (2m, 3m, 5m) it seems that Vendetta does not get used on cooldown (1m 30s). It seems to still be used right after vanish still. Is this the way it is supposed to be or am i missing something?
wet ruin
I have 2 sockets, but I m waiting for a good corruption to put it on ๐
quasi pewter
its because ur using shrouded suffocation @worldly echo
wet ruin
already have 9 sockets, so I am not in a rush
quasi pewter
vendetta and vanish should always be used together with ss
worldly echo
ahh thats what i was missing
rigid mango
I have enough coal visions to do like 13 visions on main or smth
but I just cba
Was hoping for carapache daggeer so I could socket it
quasi pewter
i skipped a full day of dailies yday
worldly echo
Thanks @quasi pewter for that info
quasi pewter
wet ruin
I bonus rolled one dagger last week, put a socket instantly
worldly echo
In M+ i sometimes use VoP minor (alwasy use BoTE major). Do i hold my vendetta/BoTE during boss fights to line it up with vanish or just use it on cooldown?
I have been using it on cooldown in M+ pretty much
quasi pewter
you pinged the wrong person
but yea in bossfights you usually want to use ur first vanish with ur seconds vendetta
worldly echo
darn
quasi pewter
second*
worldly echo
thanks for that info
quasi pewter
so after opener you dont vanish after ur first garrotes run out
but save your vanish for ur next vendetta
worldly echo
ahh ok that makes a lot more sense
quasi pewter
that only works if the fight is around ~2-3 minutes
if its longer you waste a vanish
if its shorter too
worldly echo
i will try it out later tonight. i really appreciate your help @quasi pewter
finally got my ping right haha
wet ruin
oh no, I made vop mjor sim more
quasi pewter
quasi pewter
56 is ok for farm imo 
rigid mango
wow saryero redirecting people I never thought I'd see that
I still don't feel comfortable with above 39 for m+ fuck that shit
quasi pewter
why is me redirecting someone weird 
rigid mango
wet ruin
yea, 56 is fine for farm, but I am running less than 40 for ilgy -> n'zoth
quasi pewter
try 40-59 makes it less boring
wet ruin
its a RL choice not mine
quasi pewter
wet ruin
its not even the thing that is bad, its the slow
rigid mango
slow in 1st psychus phase with 59 corr
quasi pewter
slow on anguish into beams
rigid mango
Man I played 74 in one of my boosts and I've never had such a near death experience
A mistake, fyi.
neat plover
nothing like having 2 things from beyond back to back
wet ruin
wait, I bonus rolled a second carapace chest this week, I don't even need to reforge, I can have both sets ๐
rigid mango
Nothing like having 3 eyes on me and having to ask for PS :^)
But luckily I am the leader so people listen to me ๐
tardy pelican
Told my 2's partner I was going to run 111 corrupt with rank 9 mind flay...he shot himself
Shit *....shot is a bit too much
neat plover
either would be acceptable
wet ruin
like, my vop major isn't even simming better with mastery proc and %, it sims better with haste
is that hasted or some shit
neat plover
running MA and TB, which opener should i be rolling with from the sin guide?
scarlet sequoia
the right one
neat plover
aye, thanks
vast glacier
I have a question. Should I try to fin my Envenom in the Elaborate Planning window?
vast glacier
Or should I strive to maximum Envenom buff uptime?
vast glacier
@tropic ocean Sorry, I didn't understand you. The Asassin rotation is fluid, we have a big energy cap. How should I pool energy? To try to insert Envenoms in the EP window?
crimson palm
You want to maximize the uptime on all the buffs
So you don't cast envenoms right one after another
But the difference is negligible
vast glacier
All buffs? So I should not let the Envenom buff fall too?
crimson palm
And with enough Expedient pieces you don't even need to pool
It's negligible, don't worry about it too much
vast glacier
yep, but I'm interested) I used Envenom, some Mutilates
and I can use Envenom to fit in the EP window
or I can wait for Envenom buff to fall
When should I use Envenom?
crimson palm
You'll most likely fuck up somewhere else if you want to manage your buffs, as you have to worry about the energy cap, when to refresh your dots and being prepared for the upcoming tb window
Just stagger the casts of envenom by 1-2s and you're fine, as long as you don't cap energy
vast glacier
Ok) So how I should prepare for the TB window? Pool energy and CP?
vast glacier
got it, thanks)
crimson palm
But keep in mind that you do not delay TB
So you prepare before and you cast it as soon as it comes off cooldown
vast glacier
Got it)
dim wyvern
w
rigid mango
e
crimson palm
r
arctic tulip
anyone know why subt sims higher than MA? or do you need all three DD for it to sim higher
rigid mango
Scales better
arctic tulip
I see
azure arrow
hey guys i've seen the aoe openning and i was just wondering, how do i fit vendetta in that? do you even fit it or?
vast glacier
Another question, if I have 4 cp, can I use Garotte or should I use finisher first?
rocky holly
garrote
ionic hemlock
how are you tracking pandemic timer?
white wyvern
Using my brain.
patent topaz
some WA packages have pandemic / empower built in for garr and rupture
ionic hemlock
that might be useful because i am not entirely sure if I am getting it right
harsh notch
After i've done my opener with G,R,G,vendetta, worldvein and then the vanish dobule G.
When they come off CD what would be the optimal usage for them again?
As when they come off CD again
patent topaz
is this with SS on single target?
harsh notch
Ah yea sorry
It's Single target
Is it Vanish, double garrot, ven, worldvein and then as normal?
But wait vanish will not be off cd
I'd have to wait forit
patent topaz
I believe your aim is to have as much of the buffed garrote duration during vendetta / worldvein so you would wait for line up. I also think that you try to vanish and garrote only once while you still have an unbuffed garrote running.
I havent played SS in a while so this might not be 100%
cinder nymph
I sim higher with the crit potion, but I don't see anyone else using it. Any idea?
scarlet sequoia
i use it
obviously only use it on fights where u actually hit 1 thing for the duration of it
fleet whale
unbridled fury is a little more versatile, while also being a little bit cheaper
fleet anchor
Both are really close
It's like 100 DPS difference
Just use what you have. I use Fury because I make my own potions and it's fewer mats. ๐
fleet whale
i don't know how you rank sims, but i'm just 1 lvl below you yet i sim 9k dps more
your corruptions could be better, and trinkets don't match up well
and don't use BoTE as a major if it isn't rank 3
fleet whale
IDK if it's wise to actually recommend the VoP NP build
patent topaz
azerite is good for standard dd spec
but dont use bote rank 2 major as has been said
karmic fjord
I see, thank you
is it actually good to use 2 on use trinkets or rather 1 use trinket with an equip trinket?
patent topaz
that galecallers doesnt do much for you there
fleet whale
well, in general no, but font and coral do work well together
vast forum
2 on use can only work with font tbh
patent topaz
plumage is ok but id ditch gcb
fleet whale
try to get vita or something to replace gcb