orb explosions in p2? idk
#assassination
patent topaz
warm parcel
fair
oblique smelt
dunno if it's actually aoe damage
warm parcel
p sure feint does nothing on maut
assuming its not changed from ptr
you can instead step from pools
so less down time
oblique smelt
Yea thinking about it, it probably doesn't do anything. My thought process was probably something around the lines of, well i'm gonna be silenced anyway
oblique smelt
Yea always drop one close, it's just when hiding from Annihilation
I'll keep it in mind in future, to not waste energy on it
warm parcel
I mean its not a terrible habit to have
But if you wanna minmax, its there
also with ma
mut into rup into mut
oblique smelt
Yea gonna practice new opener before next raid
New as in i checked when tier started, and guide was being updated, then completely forgot to check again, and only just checked now
warm parcel
Other than that it doesnt really seem like theres anything fundamentally off
Corruption is a bi sucky but not like you have total control over it
night vale
wait you mean Mut > Rup > Mut right?
Not Mut > GAr > Mut ?
oblique smelt
i took it as a typo
warm parcel
mut rup mut as its been in the guides since forever, yes
this is to maximise the cps you get
asd
mut rup mut
Did I really type it twice 
oblique smelt
warm parcel
I need to eat
night vale
hahahhaa :p okay good good
versed mica
Is it possible to somehow calculate how much energy you should pool depending on how much haste you have?
warm parcel
should pool for what
versed mica
just pooling in general, to maximize damage within EP, etc.
faint harness
@warm parcel gz on being done with BFA
warm parcel
time to play ff now
there arent really any set in stone pools
people just play how they feel like
¯_(ツ)_/¯
But the more resources you have for tb
The more you likely getting out of it
versed mica
I've seen people say here to pool to half energy before using envenom
warm parcel
You cant just have a rule to "envenom only at >50%"
faint harness
dont think you should overcomplicate things
storm perch
¯_(ツ)_/¯
versed mica
I've been told that if I don't pool for envenom, I'm missing double dose damage increase through EP
warm parcel
But lets say you make this arbitrary rule of env only at >50
What if your tb runs out before
What if your previous ep runs out before that
Do you then simply env at 50 and then not have energy to even continue the ep?
what if you wanna refresh either of your bleeds inbetween somewhere
versed mica
Typically I feel that stuff out. Like, if tb gonna run out I use envenom early, if ep about to run out, sometimes I envenom a little early for the 10% dmg increase to envenom
and I either plan ahead on refreshing bleeds, or I don't bother pooling for them
warm parcel
Right, thats what everyone does. They feel it out themselves.
And the real answer is that we dont have a numerical answer from simc
Cause writing apl to test out a million different scenarios like this just isnt feasible
versed mica
Ah, makes sense.
warm parcel
So a lot of people have their own way of playing
And I honestly cant say if any is the "correct" one
versed mica
I guess in my mind, a constant energy regen that isn't related to haste would be more fun in my head, because I could possibly calculate such things lmao
warm parcel
BFA rogue is a bit more complex than classic where you can literally map out you gonna have 735 energy during a boss
😄
versed mica
I guess in a way it is more complex. Which is interesting, I always thought sin was brain dead simple lmao
Although I'm still not a fan of bleed ticks speeding up with haste
sin at the beginning of the expack was awful
warm parcel
Another related issue is that even if there were a correct way, its not significant enough to be something you can really notice
As the benefit from it is fairly low and easily overshadowed by overall rng
versed mica
fuckin corruption
I'm lucky to have gotten an infinite stars, but my rival sin rogue in my guild has two of them
and suddenly he beats me in dps fairly often in st heavy fights
oblique smelt
Corruption might be fun in a couple months when we can wear a few more pieces and have options, right now it's just well didn't get something good. Guess i will enjoy my shit damage
versed mica
I've gotten a bunch of mega shit tier corruptions, and one IS
warm parcel
Leech twice in a row from weekly
cloud canyon
hey
warm parcel
Straight into void ritual 👌
versed mica
jesus, and I thought I had it bad
oblique smelt
IS is a bit annoying as well tbh, especially with rank 3, because you can only wear that one piece, unless you wanna play with more than 40 corruption
storm perch
third echo void in a row
versed mica
I wish racing pulse was actually good
Out of all of them so far it feels the best
but apparently it's shit
oblique smelt
what does that one do
versed mica
frequent haste buff for 4 seconds
oblique smelt
Thought as much, yea that would be quite nice
versed mica
like I swear it procs every 20-30 seconds
I guess overall the uptime for it isn't good enough
oblique smelt
i actually prefer if they had just gone with stat increases
instead of trying and failing to balance things that deal damage
versed mica
same
warm parcel
Racing pulse has around 30% uptime
versed mica
IS is gross
warm parcel
And it can be good with gear
versed mica
Hm.
warm parcel
Especially if you combine it with IS as that scaless off of haste
Just sim
¯_(ツ)_/¯
oblique smelt
thing with IS, its only good on fights with pretty much pure single target
if it starts hitting other targets it quickly gets outshined by other corruptions
versed mica
well I ain't going over 39 corruption and I'm sure as hell not gonna be able to pair an IS III with a racing pulse III 
warm parcel
I mean even if it "does alright on the meter" while hitting other targets
Thats all likely useless dmg
As assa, your job is to hit the boss
Quite likely
Say vexiona
Or carapache
Or nozoth
oblique smelt
Yea leave the aoe to your 8 firemages
cloud canyon
well we do have 2 UH DKs, no fire mages tho
oblique smelt
that being said i tried out triple Echoing blades on Hive, pretty solid aoe damage tbh be honest
warm parcel
Ya you can use echo to instakill the important waves
cloud canyon
Hivemind is probably the best place for echoing
much more consistent than devestation at least
oblique smelt
Get a 20 stack FoK buff, Blood, Vanish > Spam FoK > Win
cloud canyon
and scales radially instead of directionaly
royal beacon
what are considered good corruptions now for sin ?
tacit wing
Rank 3 twilight devestation any good?
tacit wing
has anyone found an actual decent way to sim assassination for m+?
ocean ore
hey guys
can someone help me with my log from yesterday? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DLNAk2GrCpFztVdc#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=5
i got really low damage em Parses
and*
tribal marlin
@versed mica Yes the exact value is rawly 115 with vigor. It's in fact [170- (25+ energy regen)] with energy regen being natural regen + haste + poisoned bleed (which is more or less equal to 30 per sec)
dark crag
tribal marlin
@tacit wing i'm pretty sure @vestal wren had a script very similar to dunj slice which include restealth
white wyvern
@tacit wing no.
There is a script in #wow-general you can use.
Simming multiple varying trash sizes on short timers is probably better if you can digest results tho.
paper flame
People who have tried CT and PB during fortified week. What do you prefer? I see top sins using both
tribal marlin
CT needs heavy density of long living mobs to be worth it
latent field
@ocean ore play VoP minor, makes vendetta line up with phases much better
tribal marlin
Basically only FH / UR and maybe ML will allow you to have enough density
paper flame
CT excels in higher keys as well I guess
tribal marlin
other key like Siege or Shrine, they are non elite mobs here. CT might help you pad the metter but is in fact a waste.
yes the higher is the key and the longer last the pack, CT like longer pack
paper flame
Aight cheers 
ocean ore
I like CT in almost all dungeons, when u are in the bote buff, u dont use any finisher
and makes poison bomb useless in that moment
so I PERSONALY preffer CT
rigid mango
Eh, you can still finish in bote if you're looking for prio
ocean ore
but u kinda lose dps on boss and some smaller packs
rigid mango
And not just fok spam.
wary ice
90% of pugs dont pull in ways that make CT useful
just another dimension of the discussion
ocean ore
yeap, zine has a point so
warm parcel
Yea pugs are painful with any setup
Got ss? Tank chainpulls
Got eb? Lets kill 2 at a time
ocean ore
pugs 
rigid mango
Idk, I've been using PB a lot this season and it's working just fine
I think PB and CT are near interchangable in most cases tbh
warm parcel
(Just saying pugs will be different from proper runs usually)
royal beacon
dont u wanna run ss and eb combined as manny as u can for m+ ?
rigid mango
P much yeah
There's builds that work around using TTK to smoothen out packs, get some more prio and boss damage
But again, they both seem good enough tbh.
Seli favours the latter, so do I but I also think 3 SS is insane.
I just don't think EB is as insane
vague rock
is scent of blood any good for say 4-5+ target prio?
quiet junco
I'm 10 ilvl higher than my pally friend an we sim the same, is that common or am I a bad
royal beacon
mb wrong stats on gear or he got better corruption ?
rigid mango
Scent is mediocre
And ilvl is give or take irrelevant
Better corr on lower illv > dog corr on good ilvl
Etc etc
quiet junco
Yea I sim an follow pins as close as possible, just curious if pally were legit. Didnt think bout corruption, thanks!
cobalt pelican
the ret in my guild sims 83k or smth so i imagine the class in general sims pretty high
hollow stone
The ret in my guild sims 51k cause he stopped playing 
quiet junco
Lol
true pelican
what causes bote to sim higher or lower relative to clf? It sims 1k lower for me but for many characters it seems to sim within 100-200 dps
hollow stone
I like to cc everything and pull 1 by 1 in keys
tropic ocean
in this week u can play ct on majority of dungeons
basically only dungeons I don't use it is tos/kr/siege
hollow stone
Very relaxing
tropic ocean
siege due to the fact that the mobs dont live through ct mostly
or, the majority of mobs
and the relevant mobs were it would be good you'll kill them with spotter anyway
haven't really logged a lot but usually my pb is 2.5-3.5% of my dmg if u add the finishers as well its not super much behind ct on overall
hollow stone
The sin rogue i do keys w ( i play ol in keys) only runs pb and he does really well. Beats my overall sometimes. So agreed that ct isnt a make or break
rigid mango
He was the EB king
gusty mirage
@tropic ocean morning tinkers a lot with traits/essences/talents, he loves testing and tweaking things. His latest trial and error is running a high haste build in junkyard for the zap damage
tropic ocean
yeah just sayin that the talent choice esp in last row wont make or break ur dps
and yeah zap is insane
i cant compete with dh or fury in junkyard
they 10~15k ahead
with zap being top dmg
gusty mirage
same, I was thinking of running a high haste build because zap more than makes up for it apparently
digital timber
What made warriors God tier this patch anyway?? Is it jut scaling?
gusty mirage
mostly scaling, iirc warrs tend to get really good toward the end of expacs
digital timber
And has prot historically always been a very strong tank as far as mitigation and dps go?
gusty mirage
prot warriors have been great for damage and physical mitigation for a while now yea
magic damage eats them up if your interrupts are weak, source: my warrior tank in a 14 temple the other day 
tropic ocean
with many shit not being rppm
fury and dh with built in haste just proc it 12388392
compared tos in
like I have sub 10% haste in keys
gusty mirage
yeah running 8% haste and having zap be like 2-4 mil damage less than a DH's is a FeelsBad
tropic ocean
with zap e.g. dh and fury become walking thunderings
due to proc rate compared to sin
probably outlaw procs it a lot too
cobalt pelican
it's just haste
so i gues if they play blitz maybe
but not really compared to expedient classes/fury/dh
gusty mirage
I wonder what the ppm actually is for Normalization, might be worth giving up a SS or EB to run the engineering helm in junkyard
all I know is it doesn't run on rppm
mild bane
Does CT return energy with venemous wounds?
cobalt pelican
no
gusty mirage
no it doesnt
mild bane
I’ve been playing sin in m+ for a week and haven’t yet tried CT in any, wondering about it
gusty mirage
CT is really really good outside of KR & Siege
esp this week
I've been running it constantly with 3x SS 2x TtK and 1xEB and it buffs my aoe dmg where I don't notice the loss of 1x EB
mild bane
From the pin it seems like prioritize CT over rupture, ignore envenom, rupture for energy only and FoK spam is still king?
gusty mirage
what I do, is open with 3x garrotes -> CT, and FoK rupture 2 targets and then replace the garrotes with ruptures as they fall off and just spam envenom into prio target
that changes w/ bote though
which I don't really run anymore, because I got bored of it
mild bane
I guess if I wonder how much my ST will suffer, that is actually simmable
gusty mirage
and refresh CT in pandemic 🙂
you could switch to a ST major essence to make up for the loss if you're worried about losing ST dmg
reaping flames is fantastic all around as a major esp if you can execute w/ it
if you use plater there's a script for it that'll put lines at 20% and 80% of the nameplate so you don't get stuck in the full CD of reaping flames
mild bane
Ohh that’s a cool idea, way easier than watching the exact %
gusty mirage
I'll dm you the link
mild bane
Thanks!
fading wigeon
Trying to understand coral use as per the paragraph in tc_updates.. we save stacks until second vendetta..and then use after vanish and TB right?
hollow stone
No. You use it with 2nd vend. Both last 20sec
rigid mango
Are you pairing it with font?
fading wigeon
No I don't have font
I am using an on equip trinket
Should I macro it with vendetta?
rigid mango
Well, you need to reapply it post vend
modest tendon
Flames or crucible see much use in M+ as assa? Or is bote just always better since it lines up with vendetta?
rigid mango
Bote is just better
modest tendon
Ye makes sense
rigid mango
botd could've been good, but sin doesn't have those GCD's open
fading wigeon
Ah ok thanks. That makes sense
outer lotus
lidl carapace dagger
outer lotus
sometimes lidl stuff is better than the real thing
reef cliff
Hey boys, I'm playing around with Logic Loop of Recursion and I cannot make mutilate count as an ability in any order of rotation. Have any of you experienced the same?
reef cliff
I have the second part. Mutilate in any combination of my rotation will not count
So muti - Garotte - Rupture doesn't proc, but Toxic blade - Garotte - Rupture does
Consistent with going down futher
Muti - Kick - Blind wont proc
Rupture - kick - blind will proc
etc.
outer lotus
did muti count as a cast on queens court? it did, right?
reef cliff
Yup
outer lotus
cuz i know they made stuff like moonfire not count as a cast at all after it counted as 2 casts before
hollow stone
Obviously the answer is to replace mutilates w foks (dont do this. Issa joke)
latent gazelle
Report bug maybe?
full flicker
can you cloak/vanish creeping madness at wrathion mythic?
latent gazelle
Yes
warm parcel
yus
reef cliff
I'll hit a target dummy again.
latent gazelle
Tho a lot of times if you stand still while dosing him as long as you don’t have to love that rebuff will drop
Or be greedy and call for a freedom or tigers lust
reef cliff
@warm parcel I'm fully confident in it not proccing before fourth ability with a mutilate opener.
reef cliff
yeah doing different combinations for it atm
outer lotus
thats why i thought maybe they manually disabled it to count as a spell at all
like moonfire with twin moons
faint harness
ye but maybe the trigger doesnt work if you use 2 of the same spell in a row
just look at casts on warcraftlogs, mutilate had double the "casts"
outer lotus
maybe test if it works when mutilate is the 3rd cast you use
cobalt pelican
i know saryero uses the ring so
i guess i can just use public logs and see if it werk for him
cobalt pelican
wat
idk what you're looking at are you sure he has the rings on in what you're looking at
hybrid hinge
Does any1 have a solid gearing plan/guide to get to +15 / Heroic tier asap?
For assa that is
marble tartan
Is that level of corruption playable as Sin? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/46eEAhFgeM5HuXykr2kSb6
cobalt pelican
depends on the fight, but in most cases if you're paying attn ya
marble tartan
the only fight I have problemss with corruption is skitra
faint harness
weird
marble tartan
i gguess it's the shadow dmg debuff
cobalt pelican
seems to work fine in these logs
marble tartan
yeah, one mistake = oneshot 😄
cobalt pelican
not skitra sorry talking about the rings
marble tartan
well, it's truee for skitra anyway
cobalt pelican
skitra should be fine for corruption but if your healers are struggling
then take some off
marble tartan
yeah
red bloom
I run 78 corruption, healers mechanic for sure
royal lantern
cus the shadowdmg taken debuff counts for those too
red bloom
but for real, just run what you feel comfortable running depending on the fight, I dont run that high when there is a load of unavoidable raid damage to not add unexpected damage if/when i miss a thing from the beyond or spawn like 6 eyes at the same time
grizzled mist
how much should i envenom? should i be using Envenom when im about to cap Energy or when the Envenom buff is about to fall off? or should i be using it more often? (havent played Rogue in a while)
reef cliff
Also did 3 without advanced combat logging enabled with muti as the middle ability, but couldn't upload because i had advanced disabled
Can redo if you'd like.
reef cliff
Yeah and I get buff uptime at 12
cobalt pelican
cause you garrote rupt kick, garrot rupt mut, and then garrote rupt fok
if kick isn't counted then
you'd be doing what
reef cliff
My buff is active after after garotte rupt kick, activating on kick
then active again after garotte rupt fok
but not active on either muti combinations
cobalt pelican
are you always trying this with massive breaks
reef cliff
More for ease of reading the log
cobalt pelican
hm
reef cliff
I noticed it immediately in my normal rotation wehn I tried though
cobalt pelican
it's weird but afaik it keeps track of your previous casts for a long time
reef cliff
becasuse I was looking for the buff
cobalt pelican
not just when recharging has fallen off
reef cliff
Okay so looking at that, what combination with muti should trigger bit band
cobalt pelican
not sure from this log actually it looks kinda wack,
true pelican
I have recursion + overclocking, I have also never had muti activate the buff
it just doesn't seem to count
cobalt pelican
it definitely does count sometimes though
reef cliff
I unequipped all double doses and tried again, still no matter the combination if muti is invovled im reset to 0
reef cliff
I can do fok garotte muti then I need to do 3 more
true pelican
I don't think so, it's not lined up
cobalt pelican
it definitely is
true pelican
if you checked with more skills i'm sure you'd see a cloak/evasion/kick/detection
reef cliff
I'll try Muti ernvenom muti muti garotte ruptre muti if you want
cobalt pelican
zoomed in further for example
if you remove the timer filter all spells will get added for the entire fight
not sure what's going on with your log though
true pelican
the first one you linked procs off the garrote doesn't it?
cobalt pelican
it's the exact same instance
linked twice
but yes, it procs from mut -> rupt -> gar
reef cliff
Yeah but there's a mutilate in the rotation and my mutilates are setting my counter to 0
cobalt pelican
the others were extraneous spells
i'll try and find an example of ending in a mutilate proccing it
true pelican
there's envenom + rupture + garrote
it should have procced off the rupture if mutilate counted
cobalt pelican
there's a mutilate in the middle here for example but the final is procced by crimson vial
reef cliff
So it has to be the envenom?
reef cliff
Muti rupture garotte on it's own is 100% not proccing
reef cliff
But it procs on the next envomen cast after
true pelican
you need to look at all casts after recharging finishes
cobalt pelican
but his is proccing just fine from what i can see without trawling through hours of logs
reef cliff
I'm telling you muti isn't counting
re equipping my azerite made it not reset the counter though
true pelican
not just the last few casts before the buff procs again
if you zoom out from the one 2nd last one you linked
cobalt pelican
hm
true pelican
you can see a rupture
rupture - mut - mut - envenom - mut - crimson
it should have procced on envenom
cobalt pelican
so you're saying then if you do like
warm parcel
mut env mut doesnt
cobalt pelican
detection mutilate mutilate garrote mutilate mutilate rupture it will proc?
warm parcel
its 2 mutilates
warm parcel
wat
reef cliff
On a 5 minute fight my sims have me at 81.8% uptime
true pelican
this is correct
cobalt pelican
not saying you're wrong rly i don't have either of the rings so
just seems.. weird
reef cliff
Blind doesn't trigger if the target is immune
reef cliff
I mean It's obviously minor at best but this can't be the intended way for it to work
cobalt pelican
yeah i mean if you're still at the dummy and detection mut mut gar mut mut rupt procs it then i guess you right
probably not
reef cliff
lemme try detec mut mut gar
true pelican
sec i'll make a gif
reef cliff
detection mut mut gar mut mut rupt no proc
but detection mut mut gar mut mut rupt mut env does
cobalt pelican
now i'm confused, is the amount of globals just too big to count or smth with 2x mut filler
i guess that's possible
reef cliff
Does mut count x2 even without DD?
cobalt pelican
in logs it does yeah
reef cliff
gonna try mut mut gar mut mut rupt mut env without DD real quick
still procs on envenom
true pelican
reef cliff
It's no huge deal but it does make keeping uptime at certain points pretty annoying
true pelican
garotte - mut - rup - mut - mut - envenom
reef cliff
@true pelican
Try mut env from stealth real quick
Idk what the fuck is up with this ring but mut env from stealth just procced it twice in a row for me
cobalt pelican
memes!
reef cliff
It procs on stealth - mut - env if tentacle procs meanwhile
otherwise on stealth - mut - env - gar
steep lagoon
Is HoD rly that good? Sim wants me to have 3xHoD instead of maybe 2 + 1 NP
reef cliff
stealth - rupt - gar insta procs it
LMAO
SS works as outlaw, so it's not a builder ability issue
I submitted a bug
arctic walrus
They didn't respond back in August so good luck 
reef cliff
Not much else to do about it yeah
arctic walrus
kick and tricks work too if you wanted to know
reef cliff
Oh so this a thing before and Fairy saying it is working was just him not knowing?
arctic walrus
well, only sometimes
reef cliff
Aite good to know its been like this for a while then
true pelican
yeah like sometimes when my buff is down quickly use evasion + kick
reef cliff
Wait sorry not Fairy, Weakfur
true pelican
and it still doesn't proc
reef cliff
Sorry!
cobalt pelican
i didn't rly believe it either
but i also wasn't gross enough to be playing 3 spells ring in tep like some people
pplaugh
reef cliff
INDIE COMPANY
reef cliff
I already have x2 475 crit haste atleast pog
arctic walrus
I've had mechagon rings equipped for the past 6 months that's kinda crazy 
cobalt pelican
he doesn't have gushing wounds on all his rings
reef cliff
Effect's pretty wild!
cobalt pelican
hoh oh oh oho
reef cliff
pls no bully im only a tentacle boi
cobalt pelican
i too have crippling debt
rigid mango
Hey man just for 1 more week
marble hemlock
If you prefer intact kneecaps it better be just one week.
distant lava
vagrant tapir
cobalt pelican
kinda useless
maybe 1of on 1 piece of gear you can swap out
rogues don't really need to mass pull very much to get the objectives done quickly like most classes
crimson palm
is there an optimal path for fucking mage quarter
i'm spending so much sanity there just running around
noble smelt
a lot of people use this https://imgur.com/a/ysNYqex
rigid mango
Unsure what's optimal but going dd first and praying for 10% dmg buff is what I do atleast
🙏
marble hemlock
wait
iver always just gone clockwise
and did mage last
seems so much more natural to me :x
arctic walrus
Clockwise gang
crimson palm
Same
marble hemlock
vel being clockwise lad
is all i need
tisu is clockwise cult too
so
thats enough for me
arctic walrus
real recognizes real
marble hemlock
clockwise gang usually only needs 1 orb on shaw and 1 before and after mage
which is pog
feels like with the rotation on the pic i need to try shaw with low sanity
arctic walrus
I guess if you are a lil bitch and get scared you can back out easily after going to mage, wasting time, and just ending
marble hemlock
shaw+alleria?
arctic walrus
imagine lusting are you guys just not good enough 🙄
marble hemlock
doubt
cobalt pelican
i've never done it without lust tbh
marble hemlock
but its not an issue really, idk
cobalt pelican
but i always just lust him and he dies to bleeds
marble hemlock
i guess that might be worth?
just feels like if oyu had a clean run
you dont need to
cobalt pelican
no idea, i just do what i did the first time
marble hemlock
cause oyu get to umbric with 2 orbs
crimson palm
On 5 maskz no way he dies to bleeds
cobalt pelican
yea mayb it's only like 20 secs to chase him a bit if you have to
marble hemlock
try me
cobalt pelican
that's pretty powerful
marble hemlock
almost overwhelmingly powerful
tropic ocean
EXSANG?
marble hemlock
ive been wondering if that might be worth on umbric
just going galecallers
speccing exsang
and destroying him
tropic ocean
the phys dmg one?
tropic ocean
doubt
crimson palm
250k hits
harsh harbor
Grabbed the dagger off carapace last night. Thinking of going assassination after two xpacs of outlaw.
brisk crag
Evening guys, can someone tells me why I don't see Assassin Rogues with WR anymore on Warcraftlogs ?
I see so many people with BotE in their major slot.
wild mural
Because it relies on other people in your raid using it and being within 12 yards
brisk crag
Yes, I know. But even on Shad'har, I still see many BotE. And I don't know why. /:
tropic ocean
^ because there are probably not enough ppl in raid using it
this from shadhar kill with 2 ppl running it
brisk crag
So now, BotE is better than CLF ?
tropic ocean
just not worth if u dont have 4+ppl run it
wild mural
For some people yes
tropic ocean
@brisk crag 
its not a generalized answerable question
brisk crag
I am running a sim.
But just two weeks ago, WR was better than CLF or BotE, while only one person in my raid was using it...
That's why I'm asking.
tribal marlin
I did umbric yesterday 4 masks with only 2 np and 2 ss, he melted like he was 30% hp when I reached it only with dots (no lust). TB still good for NP increase dmg. Anyway it's the way to deal with SW
For me WV is worth it at 2 people using it and is equal to ther setup if I only use it
this assume patchwerk no displacement
tropic ocean
@brisk crag noone can answer these questions for you
it constantly changes with changing gear and stats on your character
just sim character whenever you loot smth
brisk crag
Alright. /:
hollow stone
Or just dont if youre upset about it and potentially run suboptimal stuff
paper relic
I've been using Vita + Torment in a jar this week for M+, what are other nicetrinket combos for sin in dungeons?
strange python
i'm using dice+alchemy trinket
tropic ocean
@paper relic torment is actually good does 4-5% of my overall
vita i really dislike it so im using coral+torment
echo cargo
when you read balance patch notes and rogue is untouched 💤
robust light
yo guys where can isee the aoe opener?
i remember seeing it somewhere
nvm pins lool
rigid mango
crit mast
vague rock
is it normal with that build to have zero energy generation on bosses
rigid mango
yes
tacit wing
anyone have a weak aura for the bladespin cd in kings rest? or is there a collection for m+ I can download anywhere
tropic ocean
vague rock
so it's probably not worth 1 NP instead of 3SS+3EB in some dungeons then
rigid mango
1 NP is like, situational.
I like it in the more boss centric dungeons, siege/kr/workshop/tyr tos
the ones where you cut EB counts
I feel like NP is nice, but it's probs just as good as a bbi/ttk for the overall
if not worse, idk
slow heath
hey guys what would you say is our ideal raid essence setup, been siming a few comparable builds but wondering if there is a ideal setup were using in general
cobalt pelican
what
vast forum
you do realise you're simming heart of darkness with honed mind vs other (lower ilvl) gloves without ANY corruption AND 2 empty traits?
cobalt pelican
you're simming no corruption vs corruption
vast forum
HoD only works if you have 25+ corruption
vague rock
oh true
vast forum
and 2xHoD should be >5k dps alone
quasi pewter
leaden garden
assa in a good state atm, pve wise? both m+ and raid content
rigid mango
Yes
fading wigeon
Does someone have a sec to look at a log from a raid I was in. i just want to know I did well outside of the mind flay procs lol
fading wigeon
cobalt pelican
you have some really weird shit going on where you're casting garrote like
in quick succession
like 18 -> 26, 47 -> 54, 1:11 -> 1:18 etc
what are these even for, there's no way even if you somehow got the most basic garrote with no pandemic it'd be in pandemic again
fading wigeon
My thinking was to prepare for TB
so i didnt have to refersh lol
maybe over doing it
cobalt pelican
yeah, quite a lot
it's an expensive ability and you're refreshing at like 11 seconds remaining which is longer than tb even lasts
fading wigeon
ah that makes sense
cobalt pelican
you lost quite a bit not having your tbs tightened up in general, your 2nd vend was like
tb -> 2 gcds -> vend/etc
sometimes it'll just happen like that
i guess there's not enough space between them to really get you another
fading wigeon
gotcha, so I should have delayed tb 2 sec there?
cobalt pelican
so you'd either wait out the 2:10ish tbs debuff before pressing if fight length allows, and then delay vend a tiny bit to ensure the next tb falls inside vend, or hold the tb if it's going to be like 1-2 gcds only
mmm it's hard to say, i personally would've with no font to worry about yes
fading wigeon
ok
how is my coral usage?
and thank you for taking the time to give me so much detail
cobalt pelican
it's pretty good, not really much that could be better
final use was well timed for death timer
applies a few gcds late in the opener but super negligible
fading wigeon
Ok thank you. So I will need to tighten up garrote usage and my tb usage
as major things to work on
cobalt pelican
just chill out on pressing garrote, literally only press it in pandemic
or MAYBE 1 second outside pandemic if tb is ready in the very next gcd for example
fading wigeon
ok haha, I have itchy fingers
cobalt pelican
but don't overcomplicate it beyond that
fading wigeon
ok sounds good
cobalt pelican
your 3rd and final vend has some minor errors
like you bote'd before pressing vend
but it's right at the end of the fight so i guess you were just pressing everything as the boss died
fading wigeon
oh yeah I see that
LOL yeah pretty much
but I see the error now
I should have vend, tb, bote, and then vanish
cobalt pelican
yeah, that's ideal
round ledge
In M+, if a big pack is pulled should I be spamming fan of knives after blood of the enemy?
or spending combo points
generally I've been going for 3 garrotes with SS, 3 ruptures up and then spamming FoK + Envenom
round ledge
3 EB
and I mean big pulls like
5+ targets
Just spam FoK and use BotE on cd unless there's a prio target?
Or should I be aiming to get rupturers out
drifting cloud
yes
drifting cloud
elaborate planning/env buff
round ledge
gracias
sterile ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n22TRfKQmyPPvPWWMFDVkF is 63 ok to run with?
drifting cloud
for 30 dps ? ..
sterile ocean
well i know its 30 dps like running the corruption
i been trying to stay under 80
wtf
wrong discord m8
lol
but yeah @drifting cloud was asking cause i know theres a certain amount you can run
drifting cloud
its a 30 dps gain over your current ring ..
drifting cloud
only thing youre saying is you dont know how to read sims
sterile ocean
overall for gear on me + in my bank for down the road gear i got a total of 233 corruption
and its like alot the pieces there decent but i cant slap them all on just yet
plush remnant
Are you asking for an answer or for us to just agree with you? That’s not worth it at all and it’s within the margin or error in sims to not be considered an upgrade at all.
sterile ocean
im not asking to agree with me im saying like if the 10 extra corruption would be worth it cause i know you can run a certain amount
and im not hitting like 80 or anything
drifting cloud
have you evere read what 60 does?
plush remnant
It’s not worth it
sterile ocean
yes but thats the more i have and it wouldent be to much
plush remnant
Typically you’d want to be 59 or below. A lot of people play at 39 and below
sterile ocean
right thats pretty much what i was asking its basicly also planing what to put on down the road i keep all my corruption gear in my bank so when i can i can put it on
drifting cloud
like above 60 you are going to die from corruption pretty often
sterile ocean
Right
drifting cloud
150k hit from thing into big radius eye while youre slowed
just that alone can probably kill you esp if you have stacks from a previous eye
let alone any other dmg in the fight
drifting cloud
the difference between 59 and 60 is bigger than 60 and 80
sterile ocean
yep
plush remnant
Which would mean going over 59 corruption for 33 dps is very bad
sterile ocean
right
formal willow
I would be too embarassed to play above 60 corruption to be honest. Everyone would think youre a damagehorny egoplayer, and rightfully so. I wouldnt even consider this for 3k dps upgrade, let alone 300 or even 30 lol.
vestal wren
@sage quartz -> #off-topic with your strawpolls
honest needle
tropic ocean
not so much for raid/m+
torment is nice for m+ for aoe
for tyran i rather use haste proc
marble tartan
hey people, Do we line up our toxic blade with our vendetta window or do we instantly use it even if vendetta still has 8secs CD?
rigid mango
You line up vendetta to TB unless that'll make you miss a cast of vend.
runic tinsel
Probably a dumb question, but how do i sim dps for m+? is dungeon slice fine for assa?
raven mica
Does dslice assume restealths?
white wyvern
There is a script in #wow-general that gives restealths.
hallow kraken
in m+ with CT should we spam it or only cast it to re apply the bleed? also should FoK be used on 2+ or 3+ targets in m+?
w/ 2x SS 2X EB
shut garnet
It’s a bleed effect so you use it once and then you only reapply it when it’s about to fall off
same way you do with all your other bleeds
and you use FoK as CP generator on 2+ targets
hallow kraken
whats the best potion for m+ aoe?
white wyvern
3x SS and 3x EB
robust light
"potion"
white wyvern
Fuck I thought that said option.
white wyvern
The proximity one ofc
robust light
btw guys i havent played sin in m+ for a while. how many targets do i fok over mut with 1 x EB
and do i really just spam fok when bote is up wasting combo's?
white wyvern
Ima let someone else jump in as I have seen different things from different people. Depends on a lot of variables though; number of EB and crit probably being the most impactful.
tropic ocean
proximity on trash
unbridled on boss
but most important
TWILIGHT DEVASTATIONNN
beam hard carrying overall
rigid mango
Gw 
shut garnet
debt 
rigid mango
next solar
How many masks do we need to wear for r12 cloak quest item?
royal lantern
mask are 100%optional
shut garnet
how much worse is the "if you use 3 spells" mecha ring compared to if you hit from behind
with haste proc ofc
rigid mango
We talked about this like, yday
It should only have a bit lower uptime
But in reality it's buggy as fuck and a lot of things don't proc it, resulting in losing like 20-30% uptime
So it's not that good.
vague rock
What build you guys use in Visions? More aoe focused or ST
rigid mango
3 ss + as many NP's as possible.
vague rock
yeah was thinking that
rigid mango
Exsang, botd/bote major + lucid pp strife
shut garnet
tyvm gamer
tawdry wagon
What's the best fight style to run in droptimizer for a general idea of m+ upgrades in dungeons/raids? Or is not really possible to do that?
shut garnet
and HB still sucks dick right?
fresh flint
Is there a fun vision of perfection build to play with for assassination guys? just fooling around a bit to see if theres anything^^
fresh flint
Ya just hit the dummies for a bit the procs werent occuring that often really
Can VOP Proc from dots?
honest basin
I do run them with 3 SS 1 EB 1 NP 1 TTK and it's been going well enough to clear 5 masks
vop minor is close to required imo with lots of masks
distant lava
I thought that but most of the time you have vendetta back up between elites
vast forum
depends
i've had issues when i didn't spec into VoP
and no other minor is really that impactful in visions
i would personally run 3xSS 3xNP
distant lava
thing is with Exsang you don't really run into problems on medium mobs
honest basin
With 4-5 masks playing VoP minor allows me to vendetta every elite but 2
vast forum
yea same
honest basin
Which I can't do without it
vast forum
i don't think pp is necessary
honest basin
pp isn't necessary ye
honest basin
Exactly
distant lava
yeah but I've been running blast and font
vast forum
same
distant lava
basically using blast as a mini vend
for like semi big dudes
and I just font vend the big ones
vast forum
i like more flexibility, i don't think i struggle with any of the small mobs anyway 😄
honest basin
Imo only a few select Elites can be a problem, hence VoP minor
Breath is kinda cool too if R3 when you want to bring some corruption in
dusk tinsel
anyone know what BotE stands for in the m+ aoe opener?
lethal heart
dusk tinsel
thanks
raw shadow
@zinc zealot what essences do you think are best on hivemind
red plaza
Judging on top logs...bote major, lucid + botd minor. And cns/pp/iris for the last spot
raw shadow
when?
red plaza
On hivemind
red plaza
8 minutes before I responded?
raw shadow
languid magnet
what food should i do as assassin? 🙂
languid magnet
alright (Y)
raw shadow
pcik the highest number
zinc zealot
@raw shadow BoTE, Lucid Dreams, Lethal Strikes, Strife
arctic tulip
how is sin doing in mythic+ still decent, compared to outlaw?
arctic tulip
I want to try sin, for raiding.. single target damage.. but I just do mythic+ too much
vestal wren
if you want to play sin in m+ do so
arctic tulip
I may just do that.. see how it goes..
maiden raptor
ineffable truth isn't really good on sin is it?
raw dove
Whats the setup for m+ btw ? BotE 3 EB Crimson Tempest ?
subtle tundra
and its the best single target trait for boss fights
scarlet sequoia
raw oasis
@subtle tundra are you referring to m+ specific traits or all traits?
When running subt*?
limber dagger
Guys is there a vailable Exs build for m+ atm?
hollow stone
No
keen bloom
am I doing something wrong or wont the crafter gear be upgrades for me ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pmCukMRL3UrmVFSMQmGkBh
I am dumb
I thought its hands ops
swift sparrow
is focused resolve better for st ?
hushed maple
thats weird
deadly and force
ugh
or no I think I didnt put it in
no never mind I did.
Whats the best kind of Azerite pieces we need as Sin rogues? Gorak as Shoulders, vex chest and Raden helmet?
harsh sphinx
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer goraks is usually a safe choice but should check for yourself
harsh sphinx
drifting nimbus
what stats i want to have for m+ ?
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/woj16weKnfUrsNXw5QYyYM still a master assassin boyo
harsh sphinx
you saving TR as well?
winter moss
@harsh sphinx hell no
harsh sphinx
haha ya until i opened the sim. was like is mac fkn cleansing his gushing dagger!?!?
bleak spoke
legit the only upgrades i get are gorak tul and raden helmet right for residuum
err for azerite*
harsh sphinx
no vex chest so still says ceph is the biggest for me. then gorak
bleak spoke
i got vex chest last night 
harsh sphinx
bleak spoke
it got traded to me 8D
harsh sphinx
hope to get it monday. we've been slow af
bleak spoke
i believe in u ;-;
harsh sphinx
marble tartan
Does anyone know the exact names of azerite I should aim for when playing Sin Rogue in M+?
distant lava
pistoleer's / extravagent something for shoulders,
blighted tribe / the name of the mecha chest I forgot sorry
and I think it's only fluid machiniations for head
marble tartan
all M+ I guess, right?
distant lava
yep
marble tartan
RIP me
harsh sphinx
rigid mango
Ss eb fam
distant lava
you have some decent SS + other generic traits from raid
rigid mango
Welcome to sin
distant lava
but no SS EB from there
marble tartan
that's what im rocking atm
marble tartan
Maut? 😄
marble tartan
Thought about using Torment but it's kinda bad in small groups right? Like KR etc
rigid mango
It's meh there ye
Was doing like, 3% overall compared to 6-6.5% normally in a workshop kry
Same goes for kr etc
crimson palm
Isnt ss + hod second best option? Why ttk
marble tartan
im usually playing ttk instead of eb in KR/ToS keys
for smaller groups or prio dmg
outer lotus
CLF + subterfuge simming highest for me... is that unusual?
rigid mango
Ttk is fine
drifting cloud
clf more than subt almost, but not that unusual
rigid mango
Gives some more prio and boss dmg
marble tartan
hod just gives you stats, I mean for raid environments it feels pretty solid but using it in M+ doesn't feel as good since you can acquire better dmg traits
for aoe environments atleast
quasi pewter
wouldnt pick ttk over hod
outer lotus
i only simmed CLF and BOTE, didnt bother with world vein
wet ruin
is there a point where CT instant dmg is better than envenom?
cobalt pelican
there is a point yeah but it'd be at like
at least 10
and like he said you wouldn't be finishing at that high
paper flame
This is probably a dumb question but does weapon damage affect fan of knives damage?
woven summit
It's a very good question actually
cobalt pelican
yes
potent raft
so i just got bote, finally.. and i'm lazy..
when do you use it? after MA, before TB or after TB?
cobalt pelican
after tb
crisp hollow
is sin more ideal for workshop? lotta low-target pulls
cobalt pelican
probably, it's a dungeon you don't feel too bad playing 1 or 0 ebs and can actually build to kill things
wet ruin
how do you sim the cloak effect at rank 12
scarlet sequoia
u wait till u have it
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/9xXCe92.png just creamed my pants
https://i.imgur.com/wsfFR6l.png replaced this
vague rock
what do people usually run in Workshop? I'm thinking 3SS,2NP,1TTK
but not sure if i stick with crit/mastery or add more haste
cobalt pelican
probably 3ss2hod1np/1ttk or something like that
kinda depends what gear you have
and maybe drop 1hod for 1eb based on group comp
vague rock
yeah my gear is kind of awkward atm, all my hod traits or stuck on raid gear
i could go 3DD,2HoD,1NP but i think it would just int trash damage
cobalt pelican
yeah don't do that
vague rock
maybe 2SS,1NP,1TTK,1DD,1HoD
although the 2np with vop minor lets me do pretty good burst dmg on the big mobs
halcyon zealot
its never worth playing R2 strife is it
raw oasis
Is there an explanation for why some high io mut rogues have no EB in m+? What's the strategy here? More ST oriented for high key bosses on fort weeks?
cobalt pelican
eb just doesn't ton a whole ton sometimes
it's probably rare to not be running 1 but yeah
raw oasis
I Know 3x SS will be more impactful than ebs but I still don't understand ability priority when it comes to multiple targets. I should look at sims to figure it out.