so by afking on the targets i dont want i do have some advantage "or stacking" for when attacking the target i do want
#assassination
potent raft
if you afk on wrahtion p2
you'll get more procs on wrathion p1
but less total procs for the fight
sullen pagoda
@warm parcel he wants to afk pillar phase on wrathion so he "saves"procs for boss phase
faint harness
it was just a goofy idea he had of not attacking pillars in wrathion flight mode
but as usual people react way over the top
jaunty arrow
Being afk on wrathion 2 phase sounds like lots of questions why i do nothing
potent raft
that's besides the point 😄
warm parcel
I mean you do
As both time since last attempt and last proc have advanced
You should see a proc a lot faster as soon as you return to wrathion
Like a practical example from legion
jaunty arrow
Well imagine how half of the raid is afk coz proc in phase 1 😂
faint harness
more pad for fire mages
warm parcel
You could "bank" your PB procs in some cases as if you afked long enough at the start of a key
Or had a long enough walk
Youd proc pb on your first envenom
Eventually it became 100% chance given enough time had passed
faint harness
but are the procs just RPPM or is it a deck of cards 
faint harness
did they scrap the deck of cards idea
rugged tundra
How to sim as sin for m+ ?
faint harness
that was fun, with that you could definitely time ur procs
even had counters that counted amount of attacks needed before next proc
pseudo-rng
warm parcel
Well you could never do that with rppm
faint harness
nah
warm parcel
In legion
faint harness
But i know they toyed around with the idea a bit in Antorus
warm parcel
(rppm / 60.0) *
MIN(time_since_last_proc_attempt, 10.0)
unlucky_streak_prevention = MAX(1.0, 1.0 + 3.0 * (time_since_last_proc * rppm / 60.0 - 1.5))
ON ENTERING RAID BOSS COMBAT:
SET time_since_last_proc = 0.0
SET time_since_last_proc_attempt = 0.0```Biggest change to rppm was from wod to legion
faint harness
"unlucky streak prevention"
warm parcel
Encounter start used to have both time since at max amount on pull
So you had guaranteed procs on pull
etc
faint harness
ye i member
potent raft
in wod wasnt it just internal cd?
i remember WA tracking trinkets
if it's off the internal cd you'd guaranteed to get it in 2-3 sec tops
we were holding dps on some places in order to not proc the trinkets
sullen pagoda
so with afking you save 1 proc total since time_since_last_proc_attempt will reset on next hit
vast forum
Some trinkets had internal cds, some rppm
sullen pagoda
warm parcel
Thats not the exact one I was looking for, but suppose thats correct aswell
There was this one old ass blog by a TC who became blizz employer or something
But yeah, if you just afk
Youll only "bank" the 10 seconds on the last attempt
So no real difference
If you really wanna gamble it, throw the occasional knife on the pylons and pray it doesnt proc
So you increase the time since last proc
And dont waste time since attempt
But its like what ever
¯_(ツ)_/¯
faint harness
so like you trade doing fuck-all in pillar phase (lower overall dps, not helping guild) by doing slightly more ST dmg
faint harness
Yea sounds very not worth
jaunty arrow
Sounds super wierd
potent raft
let's work that formula if you wait 10 seconds and if you wait 30 sec.
30sec:
unlucky streak = (1+(3*(30*2/60)) - 1.5) = 2.5
proc_chance = 2.5 * (2/60) * 10 = 0.83 = 83%
10sec:
unlucky streak = (1+(3*(10*2/60))-1.5) = 0.5 => 1.0
proc_chance = 1*(2/60)*10 = 33%
it's wrong
i havent read your replies, but gotta brb for lunch
jaunty arrow
mossy crown
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rugged tundra
what is the best way to sim for m+ ?
tropic ocean
some custom scripts by fuu (in pins)
for aoe u can just do 5-6 mobs to get an estimate
or just build on the experience of other people (eg. using shrouded traits, echoing blades, high crit and mastery)
warm parcel
RE:rppm
https://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2347&p=21081#p21081
Has some more info about rppm
The original blog posts by sigma I was talking bout arent up anymore
But this is some more info about the stuff backend
steady owl
People always say here to go for crit and mastery but any time i look at morningwinds armory he always seems to stack a lot of versa, why is that?
steady owl
He gems verse
arctic socket
I mean does he do pvp 
jaunty arrow
Also crit /mastery is for m+
steady owl
Don’t you know who he is?
potent raft
@warm parcel i read that earlier, but the response from the dev is not available (or at least doesnt open for me) and i couldnt see how/if it was resolved
and another related thing i dont understand is..
every event should be considered as "attempt to proc"
however if you have more than 1 event per second, the "last attempted to proc" will always be 0
i believe autoattacks count as events, right
hot flume
Hello guys. Was wondering, is it worth let Elaborate Planning and Envenom buff drop for few seconds while pooling energy for a Toxic Blade window or not ?
potent raft
no nvm i'll let someone smarter answer
my opinion is - it doesnt matter as long as you've generated your 3-4-5 CP's while envenom buff was still up
then pool <til TB is offcooldown> -> TB -> envenom
arctic socket
You want to pool 110-120 energy for TB, You want to try and get 3 Envenoms in your TB window. But make sure you have dots refreshed and at 3-4 Combo points
potent raft
is it worth refreshing dots while they are not in pandemic yet?
likee.. say you have:
5 sec til TB is up
you have 5 cp
you have 60-80 energy
your rupture has 13sec remaining
do you envenom or rupture
arctic walrus
It’s a very minor gain to pool. If you want to, you only need around 50-75 with how many haste/regen procs we have. You can refresh bleeds up to (pandemic+2s)
Basically bleeds < 9s refresh
The most important thing is to not hold Tb, and use on cd
arctic walrus
You can Tb at 5 cp as well, overcapping is fine in this case
potent raft
yea i know but it's too early
5 sec still til TB
you'll overcap on energy if you wait
you'll refresh way too early if you rupture
if you envenom your rupture will dropoff by the end of TB
what do
arctic walrus
5 seconds? Just envenom
arctic socket
you can refresh your bleeds 2/3s+ of pandemic if you do that you shouldn’t have any issues during your TB window
cobalt flame
how much are u guys simming atm? idk if i sim low or good enough. I have shitty corruptions tho. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nCFY5R4yuL2SQiCZrPeDiH
arctic walrus
Max is around 70-72 atm
arctic socket
But I mean if you have 5 seconds that should be fine to just Envenom 
arctic walrus
With good good corruption
faint harness
I sim 75.5k
arctic walrus
K aight max is 75k 🙂
arctic socket
Post that please
arctic socket
I wanna see this corruption luck 
cobalt flame
Only decent corruptions i got i have in that sim , but t1 void echo sucks dongs
arctic walrus
It has to be below 39 corruption 
arctic socket
^
arctic walrus
Till I consider valid hehe
arctic socket
Doesn’t count then
58 isn’t really viable at all for Mythic tho
Should be fine for norm/heroic tho 
faint harness
We have only had raided once this week, but so far (maut + wrathion, benched on skitra) its been fine
arctic walrus
Sooo you run out for like 10s when your circle is an entire football field or what
arctic walrus
Found the healers favorite
cobalt flame
I self benched myself on hivemind mythic , that fight sucks dick as assa and i dont have decent outlaw gear yet :/
arctic socket
Spam FOK to pad
cobalt flame
yeah dont really need that in our group 😄 drones are vanishing instantly 😄
faint harness
I agree that 58 is not viable for the more difficult bosses, but first ones it should be fine
potent raft
i actually killed myself on maut during vendetta, too slow to cloak
maxtilt.. 165k envenom crit tho
faint harness
Does evasion work?
potent raft
nop
faint harness
I heard it does somewhere
cobalt flame
It reflects as Arcane damage to you
arctic socket
I believe you’re able to cloak/vanish the stuff
potent raft
i was playing the leech talent, wonder if Cheat Death would have been better
potent raft
how often does the thing come up tho?
potent raft
if it's like the eye every 10-20sec it's rip
faint harness
sometimes ive gotten it 3-4 times in a minute, sometimes 1 per fight
its not every 10-20 sec
have you never played with above 40 corruption?
faint harness
its really not that dangerous as people make it out to be
yea eyes spawn a lot
especially when you're a rogue with our cheat death etc. If anything we can run a little bit more corruption than other specs
potent raft
i can play with IS3 + EV2 on wrath heroic 😄
faint harness
My corruption is from EV3+EV2
I could.. downsize and go EV2 and APP2
but its a 4000 dps loss
arctic socket
71k dps is still very good tho
faint harness
been lucky with azerites, got both from 2 last bosses in HC
so 380, 375 375 azerite already
4*
arctic socket
Nice
potent raft
i got none, and no time to run heroic this week to get to 200 crafting mats
to get engi helm
need 4 heroic kills >_<
bleak skiff
just go pvp
it drops with a pretty good rate
unless you're not saved on first hc bosses
potent raft
not saved on any
tried pugging vexiona for the added benefit of chest
but wipes at 6% and 9% >_<
potent raft
we're having a heroic raid on monday, which i wont be able to attend
arctic walrus
All corruption spawn rate all depends on how often youre taking damage
For maut i found it best to cloak during my Ma window
minor thicket
sorry better worded - do I only need one of them if im playing subterfuge or can i use 2
high charm
You cant /target the thing from beyond, its like explosives in m+ in that way. You have to click it or tab to it to blind. Wish it had a nameplate at least
cobalt pelican
mine does have a nameplate
not sure if it falls under minions or pets or something that you have disabled
steady owl
Maybe you can mouse over blind it
hot flume
Could do more with better corruption. I hate this system so much https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qCZnVsLSSgyhUnBSomn1Jy
Just on some logs it varies a lot comparing to my two other rogue mates and it can be frustrating sometimes
hollow stone
System is lame but 70k sim is pretty damn good for right now
Double echoing void
Youre better off than most
idle ember
snagged a 460 socketed crit/haste with T2 evoid on it last night to pair with my T3 infinite stars ring. Really thinking about just cleansing this 470 dagger from carapace.
buoyant kraken
does anyone know what the ppm is for mind flay? I have 2 rank 2 of them one 470 one 445
white wyvern
2k DPS 
buoyant kraken
dunno if they are worth it over r3 echoing
white wyvern
I think the PPM is 1.
faint harness
surely its not the same ppm as IS?
scenic grotto
assa in keys is it mandatory to have 3x echoing blades?
or can it perform good just with 2x?
hot flume
@hollow stone I agree i'm kinda blessed with two echoing voids (especially that they came for emissary chests). But the fact is that I feel that I have no control over my DPS output and I hate it
marble hemlock
cobalt pelican
hot
urban junco
Nice
hollow stone
Too true @hot flume
faint harness
juicy
arctic walrus
Game keeps rewarding bad players 
arctic socket
F
marble hemlock
rude 😦
arctic socket
At least he got into a 15
hushed maple
Hey guys how can I know, which dagger I should farm?
arctic socket
Sim
hushed maple
I have 2x 445 daggers currently and I want to farm 460s, but I dont know which to farm
well yes but how do I sim for daggers
Droptimizer only lets me sim 1 Dungeon a time
arctic socket
just do every dung and use what drops first there really isn’t solely a best dagger to aim for due to corruptions and how stats are
hushed maple
well yes
But I can see, which daggers is "BiS" with my current gear
why would I systematically farm a dagger, that isnt bis
arctic socket
Why not just use the daggers from the raid?
latent gazelle
Raid and TD give crit/haste daggers. uR gives crit/mast. Pick your poison
hushed maple
Pick your poison?
latent gazelle
And isn’t the important thing for weapons is ilvl?
hushed maple
well yes
latent gazelle
(Besides corruptions)
latent gazelle
Depends on your stats weights then
rigid mango
Sup
high charm
Use gear compare
high charm
Make a separate sim for each combo of dagger if you want
rigid mango
I'm running whatever gives me a good ilvl dagger idgaf what it is
hushed maple
is there a way to droptimize all Daggers avaiable?
rigid mango
You droptimize all dungeons
latent gazelle
Basically what I said 😑
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock 
you know what’s up
arctic socket
Mate the stats on your wep really doesn’t matter just the highest white damage
rigid mango
Gimme fucking gushing pieces
hushed maple
@latent gazelle you said the bad words "stat weights"
spark sky
Just put the daggers you want to sim into top gear. You can just type them into the simc input
rigid mango
latent gazelle
Didn’t say sim stat weights...
latent gazelle
Well look st what ring enchants and gems and weap enchants it says to use
hollow stone
Dude. Just do ANY dungeon that drops a dagger
Its not like its easy to run the same dungeon over and over again anyway with how keys work
Youll spend more time looking for a specific key than you would just running any dungeon that drops a dagger
Youre talking like +/- 200 dps at most
hushed maple
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
hushed maple
as soon as you can
graceful musk
and consume with vendetta ?
hushed maple
and activate it again before Vendetta
graceful musk
cool okay
Probably should wait for the second vendetta right ? not the one in opener
hollow stone
You use it on pull to get the debuff stacking, then consume w 2nd vend. Then debuff again asap, then repeat
graceful musk
okay cool thanks for clarifying 🙂
dense blaze
How do I enable corruption drops that aren’t passive stat increases
white wyvern
What do you mean? They are all passives/procs.
dense blaze
I keep getting void ritual and mastery/vers corruptions, want echoing void so I can do real damage
next solar
i hate how a high font/coral is still essentially bis until late mythic
white wyvern
Do you mean how do you get certain corruptions? You can't target them 
.
It is all rng.
🙏
dense blaze
Game is bad
white wyvern
quasi scroll
I got 415 boots with +50 corruption Infinite Stars
Simbot says to wear them
hurts
scenic nacelle
Benthic 2.0
quasi scroll
Tol dagor WQ has a 430 belt
maybe that'll corrupt
can benthic corrupt?
guessing not?
scenic nacelle
good question
quasi scroll
On ilgynoth do you save CDs for the organs?
hollow stone
Even if obtained during 8.3
quasi scroll
and the burn at the end
tacit pebble
no, you're not racing anything on illgy so just CD on cd if you'll get a good use out of it
might change on mythic 🤷🏿♂️
lethal kraken
dont use your cds on the walls. Especially if you're running heroic, where burn phases need to be pushed for the fight to go smoothly
quasi scroll
so only use CD on ilg?
lethal kraken
imo yeah
quasi scroll
and save some for the end
lethal kraken
if you're trying to actually be good
swift crest
I find it so frustrating that on Vexiona I always end up somewhere near the bottom of the meters because of all these classes with their insane AOE
next solar
lol EK SS with FOK is still absolutely broken in TW
valid sphinx
Yeeah run echoing blades and you will not be near the bottom lol.. towards the end of vexiona kills im up near 75-80k on a good pull, until my guilds healers inevitably cant keep up 🙄
swift crest
Im a pvp pleb, I dont have EB traits, so its bottom of the meters for me
next solar
on vex just sort by boss dmg, unless your group is absolutely lacking on cleave, but beam should take care of a lot of the add dmg
valid sphinx
assassination has infinitely scaling AoE, so we definitely fit within the "insane AoE" classes youre talking about
well get the traits or play outlaw 🤷♂️
swift crest
Wait, you can sort in details?
hollow stone
Sin has to choose st or aoe. Dont worry about being low on aoe fights
next solar
depends on your build jaron, id focus on mostly ST
hollow stone
If youre really worried, play outlaw or dh :p
On vex, i dont even fok. Just st boss/st the big add during fly phase with the occasional rupt snipe on a small boi
next solar
well you should be FoK if adds are on boss simply for the CP gen
hollow stone
As whoever said, as long as the adds are dying anyway, its just pad
next solar
yup
hollow stone
You should not do that
You miss dd procs
Its not worth
Math changes if you drop dd’s and/or add eb’s
swift crest
@hollow stone Thanks for the advice 🙂
next solar
its beneficial to FoK for max combo envenom
hollow stone
Yea. Ttk would change the math too :p
fallow star
so just tried the horrific vision with 2 masks on and only managed to clear 3 objectives as i fucked up on my solo ress : (
hollow stone
Scaling
faint harness
he's a madlad
next solar
i had a 97% parse on ra'den with EK SS talents 😦 while in normal gear REEE
unkempt solstice
kinda sad that we killed raden.
hollow stone
Oh booo
unkempt solstice
he was just starting to get along with mother 🙂
frozen karma
I'm simming -200dps with subterfurge, I'm wondering if it would be worth it, haven't played sub in so long I don't remember if it's less or more forgiving
next solar
err EK SS talents wwith non EK SS azerite, i didn't even have a shrouded trait
hollow stone
You do you. But my recommendation is trust the sim and keep subt/ma as a part of all your sims
Subt isnt simming better for me either... yet
frozen karma
That was before playing around with gems, got a big top gear comming up, might be better
next solar
also i seriously cannot believe that mythic skitra is even a thing, its easier than heroic trash
hollow stone
Definitely. I like the opener more w ma but thats purely pref and somewhat rng-y
Lol, skit was a joke
rigid mango
After an evening on maut I was expecting so much more
hollow stone
I had to surprise raid lead maut and had no idea what the strat was... we figured it out tho and got the kill but def took longer than it should have.. 2hrs on maut 😦
next solar
did you do 2 or 3 tank strat?
dark lily
would it be worth it to use wounding poison on mythic hivemind?
frozen karma
Took 1h15 on Maut, kept killing myself every intermission until I fixed some stuff lol
hollow stone
Kill was super clean and we will smash it on reclear but god
next solar
heeroic or mythic
hollow stone
Mythic
next solar
oh i misread when you said reclear xD
frozen karma
We started Hivemind yesterday and I'm not enjoying this fight
next solar
it looks like a super ezpz fight for maut, we 2 shot skits and finished our heroic clear
dark lily
we 2 tank 4 healed maut ignoring the second add set and got the rank 1 execution kill for it
next solar
i need to look at dps reqs for it, we have really strong dps
dark lily
we had 2 at 65k 4 a little over 60 and the rest hovering at 57-59j
next solar
fight length?
dark lily
lemme look
frozen karma
it's rather short
dark lily
5:25
next solar
that definitely feels doable then
unkempt solstice
What's the Exsanguinate build?
dark lily
the only thing we really had to figure out was the timing of bringing the second add set into boss in 2nd P1
once we figured that out we killed it like 2 pulls later
hollow stone
Its a super easy fight if you have a strat and dont have some idiot raid lead learning on the fly :p
(Talking about myself)
Exsanguinate? Theres a word i havent seen in a long time...
tropic ocean
did sim change? or did they ninja nerf something
simming 1k dps less than yesterday with same gear 🤔
arctic walrus
echoing void gcd change went in most likely
tropic ocean
ah the one that poisons and bleeds dont proc it anymore?
marble hemlock
get ready to spam detection ❤️
tropic ocean
yeah could be
it feels pretty good though when u have 19 stacks and see them discharge in a pack
marble hemlock
drowsy snow
isn't it the same as seeing them discharge on one target too?
true pelican
it does slightly more dmg per target unless that got nerfed too
tropic ocean
@drowsy snow i was more referring to that before
it was just proccing discharging all the time
which was probably better overall but now it just feels goodfor me when having a lot of stacks and then going into a pack
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock I found myself not even using it that much
sin surprisingly has little down time atm
rigid mango
Mmhm, I tried it on hc and then kinda ignored it
arctic walrus
this was xanesh
rigid mango
Stuff keeps resetting my keybinds 
arctic walrus
yea true
marble hemlock
so ~150k dmg
arctic walrus
to be fair though, I haven't tried it on an exclusively st fight
so far only xan and vex
arctic walrus
man I want gushing wound
rigid mango
Yeah with gushing
quasi scroll
If I wanna make sure simbot is taking into account any recent nerfs to corruption do I do Nightly?
rigid mango
He's got like gushing + ev + dagger
frozen karma
Literally every day they change tho lol
rigid mango
I copied his simc from a screenshot to see what he was running 
arctic walrus
deadass did you copy word for word his simc
arctic walrus
so wait is he running 48
dense axle
what do you guys consider a good amount of corruption for progression?
rigid mango
39
arctic walrus
39
civic palm
-40
arctic walrus
clearly 48 tho 🙂
dense axle
k, but I see those sims at like 61 corruption
rigid mango
Method are all running like, way higher
civic palm
You can see sims at 300 corruption if you want > _>
rigid mango
Gingi roger at nearly 80
arctic walrus
tbh it highly depends on the fight
rigid mango
Have been running it all the time
frozen karma
Maut at 53 was really eaasy
dense axle
do you guys use blind on the add, or just tank the damage?
faint harness
rogues are quite tanky, make use of it
civic palm
For PROGRESSION, /shrug, depends on guild/healers/fight/etc.
rigid mango
Why would you rng pulls on random dude spawn
marble hemlock
yeah im not sure about the 48 corruption
frozen karma
you can use the cloak active, your CoS and blind
marble hemlock
i just got the pants earlier
arctic walrus
ah shit
dense axle
hmm, my biggest problem is that I keep getting Tier 3 stuff
dense axle
like I have T3 stars, T3 twilight dev on a dagger, no echoing stars yet
lots of lesser corrutpionps are T3 as well
harder to stack a bunch of effects
marble hemlock
mhye, i like t1/t2 corruptions uch more
dense axle
my T3 stars is on a 430 =/
arctic walrus
if anything
corruption sucks not cuz of the damage
but the slow
can fuck you over sometimes so much
civic palm
Will basically kill you if you are down both cloaks.
dense axle
yeah, def on some mechanics
faint harness
shadowstep pog
marble hemlock
yeah vel
like
shadhar dodging voids in p1
suddenly slow out of nowhere
thats an insta cos if ive ever seen one
arctic walrus
on xanesh you can be caught out in a bad dance
I had 3 things spawn back to back to back on one pull
verbal radish
Hey, a quick question. If I am capped on combo points before Toxic Blade comes up, is it better to envenom to not waste the TB combo point(s), or should I TB then Envenom for the damage?
civic palm
tb
marble hemlock
first 2 are
dense axle
@verbal radish use TB, waste the CP and do Env with 5 CP duyring the TB
faint harness
scream HEALUUURS if they dont dispel it
civic palm
HEEEEEEEEEEELP
verbal radish
Thank you. 🙂
arctic walrus
it's already a movement intensive fight, deff had to call grips
dense axle
hot tip for xanesh, fight closer to azshara, less wide of an arc for moving from torment
arctic walrus
crazy
bleak spoke
Seli did you guys go shadhar 4th
rigid mango
Think they went hivemind iirc(?)
bleak spoke
I guess they just blasted it then
rigid mango
Yeh, it's easy though
bleak spoke
What’s this about wound poison
bleak spoke
I think I’m playing outlaw on that fight tbh
marble hemlock
3ss 3eb
bleak spoke
We have an arms warrior
cobalt pelican
does sharpen not own
rigid mango
I am atm but trying to find way out
marble hemlock
held vanish for darters in kazir phase
rigid mango
bleak spoke
3SS 3EB pog
marble hemlock
the eb is kinda whatever
just 3ss is nice
for darter dmg
but also had to interrupt and other shit so i couldnt max the dmg on them
bleak spoke
Does it really
marble hemlock
meh
bleak spoke
Why not ct
bleak spoke
If you do that
marble hemlock
whether your fok hits for 3k or 10k
rigid mango
I mean we really only steuggle with the 20% shiy
bleak spoke
You’re energy flush if you want to be anyway
marble hemlock
makes no difference
rigid mango
Such a clown fiesta
rigid mango
Will say that otl blasts ther ebecause of gouge
marble hemlock
and pop them all when they hit 20%
rigid mango
Stop darters from dipping all the time
arctic walrus
how do you not have 3ss/eb
rigid mango
Same for prey
bleak spoke
I don’t either
rigid mango
I didn't try rolling for it really
bleak spoke
I rolled ml chest 8 times last tier
arctic walrus
go for 9 this tier
marble hemlock
but yeah idk, felt valuable to have wound on hivemind for sure
bleak spoke
Do you guys have an arms warrior
marble hemlock
nah
had a fury
and its not comparable
but yeah idk, whenever a darter dropped below 20% i just popped breath major on it, made sure it had wound up and it didnt seem problematic at all
if a few people do it
thats big burst
arctic walrus
A bit slow tbh
certain people have been a little 
and caused us to take much longer on some stuff
shad could've died in 8 pulls xan could've died in 20
world 18th rn I think? vex dies tonight then we probably do splits
tropic ocean
@marble hemlock so are you spamming detection in keys in downtime? or before it starts?
lean path
Which gem should I take for my gear, or should I choose the ones raidbot says gives most damage? Since it says 120 agility > Mastery > Haste gem atm.
The sim actually tells me to replace all my gems to 120 agility.
civic palm
GL with that.
lean path
Or are you supposed to stack mastery gems as assassin?
civic palm
You're gonna stack the stat that functions the best with your corruptions.
civic palm
or don't, people programmed that mess O _O
hollow stone
Or dont, true true
civic palm
Crit is historically a pretty safe stat for gemming though.
hollow stone
Im a fan of gemming crit too. Then if i have crossover gear its good for both
lean path
I always thought Crit was considered a rng stat.
civic palm
Yeah it works with other specs/etc
lean path
That couldnt be trusted.
civic palm
o _O
hollow stone
Big yikes
lean path
So, smash crit gems then? I have 25% atm.
lean path
I do M+ and world pvp mostly.
hollow stone
Not what we’re saying necessarily. But crit is a safe choice, yes
Oh if most m+, hell yea crit
wanton pond
Question for m+ im torn between two combinations of azerite I have. I can either go 3ss 1 EB or 2ss and 2eb
Thoughts ?
civic palm
2 | 2 is going to be better in more places.
more EB on the dungeons that you can expect larger pulls on average.
more SS otherwise.
hollow stone
I thought 3ss 1eb would be better most of the time. But ima hella out of date on m+ sin
civic palm
IMO traits still heavily depend on your group as well.
If you are not pulling shit then EB value tanks.
hollow stone
Very true
civic palm
SS value soars due to lower pull counts + downtime.
hollow stone
Makes sense
civic palm
So the 2 | 2 | 2 blend just makes more sense on average.
But if you have a locked group of people with a playstyle that facilitates larger pull sizes, EB is juicy.
hollow stone
You still fuxxin’ w ttk then, miz?
I think it was zine telling me ttk kinda fell off
civic palm
I don't fuck with shit O _O
civic palm
I can 200% see Heart of Darkness taking slots though.
hollow stone
Yea. Hod is nice. I like it
But idk if there’s pieces w hod + ss or eb
Havent looked
civic palm
rigid mango
👍
hollow stone
Too true. I like the prio playstyle. Ripperoni sub fun
My sin m+ gear is still my bod sin m+ gear luuul
420 blaze it
mint kindle
Hey! Just came back from early 8.2.5, any big changes I should know?
Any link to a pinned message or guide video would be highly appreciated
hollow stone
No big changes. Check pin for some info on corruptions. Subt/ma should be simmed for st even without ss. And wv major is good
dense axle
same ones
iris, lucid, new one called BOTD if you need the corruption reduction
C&S
mint kindle
Thanks
mystic mirage
hello i just come back to wow i dind't play since 8.1 now the game change i heard about the essence what's the best essence for assaniation rogue raid or MM + and how to do to get them it take lot of time or no ?
white wyvern
It doesn't. Venomous Wounds specifically states Garrote, Rupture, and Internal Bleeding if you are specced for it.
teal geyser
ok, thanks for the quick reply ! cheers bro 😗
mighty elm
https://gyazo.com/8983abc82e1360462f9ce79f4b3e20f2 ask me if im enjoying arena
mighty elm
had 3 up at the same time, just needed to afk and watch him die :/
tropic ocean
bote in arena :^)
boreal root
Are the Mechagon Bracers good for us? the ones with the Use effect?
tropic ocean
its not super terrible but not super good either
it does 1-1.5% of my dmg
@ ilvl 465
mighty elm
just bote when a tentacle procs and they dead 
modest stag
crimson or bomb for m+?
hollow junco
depends on dungeon and affix
this week generally bomb, but make your own best choice depending on the dungeon and group
arctic socket
Crimson for mythic+
Besides Dungs such as KR ToS siege tyr
In those those dungeons you use PB
white wyvern
PB: KR, SoB, and Tyr ToS.
CT: The rest.
shy axle
how do you use your cooldowns on nzoth?
short arch
sometimes I wonder how
rigid mango
@shy axle stack coral on psychus, font before clicking body in dps phase and pop cds on nzoth every rotation
shy axle
thank you
sharp wigeon
Hello, what are the suggested wepon enchants for Sin?
urban junco
From the pins:
General Information:
Weapon Enchants: Use your first and second highest weighted stats for weapon enchantments. You have diminished returns if you double up on one, so only do this if that one stat is much better than the rest.
sharp wigeon
Force Multiplier is not good on Sin?
urban junco
Sim it
sharp wigeon
true
placid kindle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5rGhiuvKYsKZWWxX2RsyvV lads why do i feel like my sim is way too low
drifting cloud
ev got fixed in raidbots
drowsy snow
wtf is that ring
placid kindle
demon ring xd
uneven summit
both ra´den trinkets worth?
balmy condor
not really
boreal root
Ahh.. so it's meh, i guess?
sullen pagoda
@placid kindle did u sim worldvein major maybe
deft vault
Sim iks telling me to gem full mastery. WOuldnt crit be much better if i only have 28% ?
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cewHrLTRdx1vnXpLJJoT9R any worldvein andys in the raid
sullen pagoda
what trinket do you have as replacement?
warm parcel
465 spyglass atm
Raden haste one with socket beat spyglass too
Was on par with font
But had to trade 
warm parcel
I hate it so much
soft shale
font can die in a fire prefer vita it also gives more raid dps
merry perch
hey all, here are my logs from last night heroic shad'har which is basically patchwork. My up times are good and i wasted combo points on TB twice, im wondering what else i can do to up my DPS because i feel like i have TB windows down https://wowanalyzer.com/report/Wx8b4dAVkcT3rfhF/1-Heroic+Shad'har+the+Insatiable+-+Kill+(5:02)/Jhordie/standard and https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9Qv3rYyhNmkMjZPb/#fight=3&source=22&view=rankings
jolly spoke
if anyone can help. this is my current sim. was wondering what you guys would recommend. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jtxpXd4VrVPqNtc89FX7P1
novel moss
Am i right in saying you can't stack 2 raid weps as in like 2 of the daggers from carcace with void lash on them, seems to sim garbage worse than non corrupt in one of the slots
honest vessel
you can stack the
m
its probably because the two corruptions put you over your corruption limit in your top gear or something
sim it with the purify corrupted items checked, if its higher ilvl, it should be a better offhand 9 times out of 10
novel moss
Alright will give it a shot thanks Kira
lethal heart
@sullen pagoda i think font was really sick on azshara
actually felt right to play it
since so many intermissions/downtimes
felt somewhat right
but not anymore imo
orchid solstice
After crafted gear + some corrupted items all without haste I am sitting on quite low haste - 982 14.44%, so i did a few sims (and i know stat weights are messy, thats why i'm asking others experience) anyways haste is simming super low for me, even though I have so little, is that some funny business or is haste not so vital anymore
What kind of haste levels are other sitting on, and how is haste simming at those points
cobalt pelican
kinda depends on what corruptions you're using
orchid solstice
interesting
drifting cloud
yeah it jumps around alot
urban junco
That's what I'm hearing.
cobalt pelican
any of the hasted corruptions obviously benefit a lot from haste, which skews what stats you want since they contribute a high percentage of your damage
the ones that don't generally will prefer either a stat that does add to them a bit (vers) or some other stat that is actually better for your character itself
low junco
should i break my neck or
or try to get corruptioins
like ppl tell me "just get em loooooool"
sand whale
just get em
vast forum
are u using 0 worldvein allies or smt?
echo cargo
Using 8 allies w. Worldvein
weak isle
maybe lvl 2?
faint harness
78 corruption
rigid mango
was within margin error when I just simmed ur stuff again
sand granite
2 Shards of the Black Empire = twice the procs? or nah
echo cargo
I did it at max WV allies and it still was 100 more
sand granite
Seems like it..
lapis storm
k guys I need an answer, I go to sim my gear as assassin and my Vers/Mast is simming higher?
rigid mango
All stats are +- each other
Just shit impacts it diff
Whatever sims highest is correct
vast forum
?
"all stats are similar, use what sims highest"
"ok, crit haste for st, crit mast for aoe"
subtle tundra
tropic ocean
@soft shale luckily i never got mythic font so hc font was big downgrade over vita
gameplay improved 300%
tribal marlin
Haste is somehow vital because there existe a soft cap no much people know about, it's around 17%. Under that cap you cannot perform 3 envenom during TB every single time (tou still can with LD procs). With enough haste you can always do 3 envenom during TB with proper pooling. This is why sometimes you can see haste suddenly become top weighted while doing stat weight.
strange python
is vita simming right? last i checked my hc font was 1k ahead of hc vita
wild mural
yes
vast forum
your stat weights are impacted by so many things (azerite you have, essence you're using and your corruption) that any stat can come out on top at any point
autumn badge
hrm, anyone using lucid dreams as major? I'm simming higher with lucid major, focusing iris and crucible minor
halcyon zealot
during TB if you get shit luck on Mut crits, is it worth envenoming at 3CP rather than Mut > Env to get an extra (but weaker) env in during TB?
tropic ocean
^dont think so
fleet whale
It's kind of weird that focusing iris minor would be simming higher than other minors if you have lucid major slotted... lucid major drops the value of haste
halcyon zealot
yeah im thinking he doesnt have that many essences to choose from / @ rank 3, cant imagine lucid outsimming CLF for major like ever
CLF major, Iris Lucid and BOTE minor sims the best for me by over 1.5k
fleet whale
lucid major really isn't that bad in theory, and it doesn't sim that much lower than other majors by that much
also you don't use breath as the third minor?
halcyon zealot
i do if i need the corrupt resist, and in M+, but for the corruption i have (33 @ 27 resist), it sims lower than my other 3 minors
even at r2 breath
fleet whale
hmm idk, breath rank 2 does around 4-6% of my total damage. and do you not have C&S rank 3? that has to be better than BoTE minor
halcyon zealot
eh i guess breath is only a 300 dps loss,
nah i have strife r2 still, should r3 this next reset
fleet whale
i really don't like how rank 3 of Breath is gated behind exalted
wish it was revered
halcyon zealot
yeah, gonna be a while, think ive only missed 1 day of dailies since patch day and am only 6.7k into honored
autumn badge
@halcyon zealot I''ve got rank 3 CLF, Focusing Irios, Memory, Crucible and Worldvein and the 3 I named are simming higher
drifting cloud
if ur 6.7k youve missed alot more than 1 day
non humans that did everything without contract are around 11k~
rigid mango
I got honored from 1 day of contract, that's doing everything everyday (even missed some shit afaik)
halcyon zealot
@autumn badge yeah idk then man, sims know best though 🤷
sterile bane
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
static apex
hi i have a question about echo of void can stack? because have 2 pieces with that
and idk if can i use the 2 pieces for stack the damage
rigid mango
Yes
static apex
yes for what? can i stack? 😮 thx 😄
rigid mango
Yes
outer lotus
Everything can stack
quasi patrol
How come Assa rogue is not that strong for raiding anymore? At least compared to the previous tiers.
I normally main outlaw but I wanted to get some Assa gear this tier for raiding as Assa was always the superior spec for raiding. Now I am a little surprised that Assa seems kinda weak :/ Did I miss some nerfs?
arctic walrus
why do you think this spec is weak atm
quasi patrol
Well compared to the previous tiers I feel lime they just deal less damage in comparison to other classes. They also don't get used that much in the mythic race anymore
civic palm
Rogues were used where we could be abused the best, similar to every other spec.
torpid linden
parsing p low can anyone tell me what im doing wrong?
civic palm
"Low?"
stable isle
blue is average
civic palm
Corruptions have substantially poisoned the item level well.
torpid linden
idk if the bleed build is just that inferior/if I do not have enough corruption/if im doing something wrong
drifting cloud
theres people that will go threw your logs but usually at more friendly EU hours
so if noone does it now you can try your luck later aswell
torpid linden
it's just corruption? echoing void seemed to add like 1k-2k dps for me in sims
drifting cloud
does way more than that
rigid mango
I would if I were on pc.
torpid linden
ya on my logs its like 8% of my dam sometimes.
civic palm
and gems/etc. Basically anything that increased your power level without increasing your item level.
So just looking at item level % without that context will warp your perspective.
torpid linden
I've just never really parsed blue before and thought I was doing something majorly wrong
civic palm
You still might be, who are you here?
cobalt pelican
playing echoing void on shadhar prolly a bad start
i mean
echoing blades
fuck my brain is mush
civic palm
You've some weak traits and corruptions for sure.
drifting cloud
yeah your azerite is straight ass
torpid linden
normally another shrouded suffocation though to be fair
civic palm
1 socket will also ruin your item level parse.
I imagine Calculator is still better than Jar at that level for ST.
torpid linden
I was normally able to parse really well without worrying too much about sockets honestly.
even without a socket i dont that that's the cause for falling 30 percentiles
cobalt pelican
in terms of general gameplay stuff like
civic palm
If you are looking at item level %'s those are the kinds of things that will influence that, is all I am saying.
cobalt pelican
no prepot, didn't hold your vend for your empowered garrotes which is required for shrouded builds
also throws out your coral if you're not delaying vend for it
fallow otter
My best stat used to be haste now it's mindflay
civic palm
Mindflay isn't a stat you dork 😐
fallow otter
You get jokes
civic palm
What does Mindflay scale best with?
fallow otter
@civic palm ilvl
civic palm
:3
cobalt pelican
you need to line your vendetta up with your empowered garrotes
which means coral would give you crit for both of them
besides those things it's mostly minor stuff
the bigger thing is you're raiding in the most scuffed stuff
fallow otter
Anyone got a gushing wound yet?
cobalt pelican
there's no way flame major is the play, and probably none of these traits are the play either, but i don't know what's in your inventory so
drifting cloud
limit wiped on 6mil
torpid linden
flame sims highest for me
drifting cloud
link a top gear sim
torpid linden
and I don't have too many essences that compete with it tbf
civic palm
#wow-general #off-topic @drifting cloud 
torpid linden
pulling a boss rn
civic palm
and yeah if you don't sim WV with enough people in raid, have BotE or CLF, Flame can ween.
fallow otter
Surely lucid major would do better, but I havent simmed subt ss for ages
drifting cloud
even r2 breath might do more
civic palm
Lucid_Ma isn't very good.
cobalt pelican
flame major isn't like, awful, it's just hard to believe there's nothing better
unless it's a super new char
civic palm
The Minor is the majority of the damage.
fallow otter
Lucid major is good for ma
civic palm
Blood of the enemies.
drifting cloud
bote
distant halo
Are there any viable SS + sub builds atm or is MA just too far ahead?
rigid mango
You can play it, it's just suboptimal.
vast forum
SS+sub is good for burst, but no fights have good enough timings for it
distant halo
Ahh Thankyou
sand granite
Gemming and weapon enchants got me stressing. Anybody wanna analyze? I swear I get diff results every sim.
rigid mango
Why are you using r1 PP
sand granite
Had it in for last two bosses of raid. DIdnt even notice. F
Time for another 1hour gemming sim I guess
rigid mango
Also go get a coral
sand granite
.<
sand granite
One is quick and one is deadly
sand granite
Yea im dumb. I had the 465 bite on and the 470 shard on after killing carapace, I just slapped a quick on the new shard. This sim was for gems/enchants right after my raid.
heady ridge
@marble hemlock I'm trying to go back to playing assa on M+ after a while of giving up to outlaw and uh saw you were using vision of perfection and wondered why was that
also im running 3ss 2ttk 1eb is that ok?
sand granite
You're nuts my guy. Thanks man
sterile bane
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rigid mango
harsh violet
not played in a whie, is shrouded suffocation still kinda a need?
rigid mango
Not for raid, but it is for m+
inner granite
rigid mango
Whatever sims highest
quick chasm
dumb question but does heart of darkness work with 25 corruption before or after the reduction from cape and other sources
rigid mango
After
jaunty arrow
Is there any change with m+ azerites? or its still 3xss some EB?
smoky widget
Hey guys, so I've read quite a few guides and played quite a bit this expac, but I'm still not putting up the numbers my guild wants for the Mythic roster. Can anyone give me some pointers or perhaps suggest a suite of weak auras to help me maximize the efficiency of my rotation and such? I'm at the end of my rope here it seems cause it seems like raiding with Sin should be simple enough, but unlike Outlaw I can't seem to get the hang of improving.
If I could sum it up I'm having trouble with what to do outside of cooldown windows to keep my dps pumping and also how to pad harder on adds. If anyone has a toon on bleeding hollow I'll compensate you for your time
tropic ocean
@smoky widget read ravenholdt guide, watch some youtube vid about rotation
your dot uptime is really bad should be 95%+
you overcap energy like crazy and also waste combo points a lot
you waste toxic blade casts always use it on cooldown
using 4 toxic blades in a fight where you could have used 10 is terrible
using 2 vendetta in a 3 vendetta fight too
you never cast arcane torrent
you cast ur essence 2 out of 3 possible times
use prepot and 2nd pot
xanesh e.g. is pretty much patchwork fight - you cant lose 4 tb casts over the fight
in maut you waste 40 sec of rupture time by refreshing outside pandemic, you lose 1 vanish cast you have <90% garrote uptime
you don't use arcane torrent and u overcap a lot of cp
you should never overcap cp unless u have 5 cp and tb is coming off cd
fiery cradle
amy specific reason you're running subterfuge instead of MA? I can't see it being better with your stats/azerite
smoky widget
Awesome @tropic ocean thank you that's exactly what I needed to know, and @fiery cradle I have never heard anyone go for that talent choice, is that really the meta for raiding RN? Id think 80% damage for garotte is better than 3 secs of crit
tropic ocean
For xanesh e.g. you shouldnt need to move out from his dmg (the move far one soulflay)just feint it and keep dpsing should be no issue in normal/hc
smoky widget
Cool ya I was talking more the big stuff about rotation errors cause Wowanylzer wasnt clicking for me
royal lantern
MA is used cus you line up multiple dmg increases(vendetta/essence stuff/toxic blade etc) too create a really strong burst window
and the increased crit chance makes that window better
fiery cradle
yeah, 96% of logs have MA, subterfuge is only really better with shrouded/certain stat breakpoints
smoky widget
Ahh ok cool ill switch then thank you!
royal lantern
finisher crits=more dmg, more crit=you will generate more cp=you will do more high dmg finisher in your cd window
smoky widget
What about minor essenses?
royal lantern
sim
smoky widget
Well what do you guys like to use
tropic ocean
besides that you shouldnt compare your dps to other rogues unless similar killtime/gear/corruption
royal lantern
^
tropic ocean
Rather compare when they use cds and their cast counts
smoky widget
Ok I guess that makes sense on a math level
fiery cradle
I just run whatever sims the highest
smoky widget
Thanks Ive been trying to focus on school again so I didnt have time to bash my head againts the wall with no guidence over this half baked patch
tropic ocean
e.g. if on same fight u do 20 envenom in same time and other rogue is doing 30 u know where to improve
smoky widget
CoRrUpTiOn lol
fiery cradle
just get echoing void 4head
smoky widget
Ya I get it, so same kinda idea but really focus on not wasting anything or lossing any resources in anyway, maximize damage. I think if I just play my rotations like TTFAF on Guitar Hero I wont be getting roasted in discord
Ya I plan on spamming keys for some raid gear cause I didnt get anything good from heroic yet, are the Raden trinkets any good or
royal lantern
current raidtrinkets are in a somewhat weird spot