depends on the content really @grave elk
#assassination
gusty mirage
jaunty crystal
lots of poeple running rank 2 breath so they can get in an extra corruption piece 😛
grave elk
the traditional raid st fight i suppose. cause any heavy aoe i think i would just play outlaw
grave elk
ill be simming after tonight. about to go try and get aotc. think im gonna go outlaw for nzoth
just looks like ill be more consistent
unkempt solstice
jaunty crystal
real first world problem there
tribal marlin
<60 for me @frigid briar , the wombo combo past 60 is just insane to deal with
tribal marlin
echoing void is carrying
jaunty crystal
ye
tribal marlin
got T2 echoing void boots for 600k :3
red bloom
Same ^, I was lucky enough to get t2 EV pieces in my M+ and pvp chests to sit me up 58 corruption which feels comfy and when I'm in efflorescence, i don't notice any damage out of the ordinary
tribal marlin
we have stuff to deal with things from behind tho, blind, shs, crippling, you can even kidney it if it spawn near you before it is "triggered"
I'll see on further bosses if I need to lower but for now i'm fine with 58
shut pasture
Is bote still bis for m+
tribal marlin
As long as Echoing blade will be in the picture, BoTE will remains one pretty strong essence in m+ yes
red bloom
tbh I've actually ignored the things from beyond, I blind em and use my cloak when i see them ahead of time but Ive been having them spawn on top of me and I already have trouble seeing myself in the melee stack in raid
shut pasture
Try using a centerpoint
iron sentinel
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
short quarry
I have an LFR Ashvane's Razor Coral(400) and a 420 Spyglass, my sim is telling me I should use the spyglass but I'm not so sure. What do you guys think? Sorry if thats not where I should ask. :p
near coyote
So pvp chest is giving me a 460 and the mythic + is giving me a 465 both guarantees to corrupt. What's the point of heroic raiding lol
Just for fun I suppose
crystal notch
having more corrupted gear?
merry sparrow
some azerite you can only get from raiding
honest iris
why does vita charged sim less than font when its supposedly a 900 dps over mythic font
rancid spade
worldvein before vendetta like clf?
tame basin
Guys, do you know smart way to handle Grand Delusions? I tried to macro /target + blind but it's not working, read on forum that it's intented. Any other way apart of manualy target it and cast blind?
ornate gazelle
What does Worldvein stack to?
arctic walrus
4
manic prism
Boys whats the best way to use galecaller boon as sin?
arctic walrus
doing any type of content to get a replacement
strange python
Can Bosses still parry Vendetta? I remember ursoc doing that once to me
wild mural
i cant recall my vendetta ever getting parried
raven locust
Vendetta cannot be parried its a spell
wild mural
tb on the other hand...
strange python
Ye, I know that TB, Like any melee Attack I guess, can be parried
But I remember that Ursoc parried my Vendetta once in Legion
100% certain
raven locust
Kingsbane?
drifting cloud
well you say 100%
raven locust
Never was possible
drifting cloud
im pretty sure vendetta has been exactly the same since EN
outside of legendaries that interacted with it
strange python
Was just curious, it's all in the past now anyways
raven locust
You might be mistaking Kingsbane with Vendetta since we lost that ability
strange python
Nah. Doesnt matter tho, was just a curious thought.
raven locust
Alrighty then
brave vector
stealth bug in visions fixed yet?
tame basin
what is the stealth bug? I was kicked out from stealth few time but I thought maybe I fcked up something 😛
drifting cloud
thats exactly what it is
I dunno, I dont think I ever got it myself
always played with subt
wild mural
it still knocks you out in the first area
dusk marsh
!help
mild phoenix
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
honest needle
is darkheart robe or allure shoulders bis for us ?
i got azerite piece from ilgonoth and vex
fading wigeon
Can't seem to find an answer to this, but does shadowmeld activate the MA buff
honest needle
i think so
errant viper
Do you need to type /combatlog to start logging, or do you just hit record on the warcraft logs client?
shy dust
it does not
honest needle
any tricks for running more then 39 corruption ? I kno vanish works but we need that for dps
how are u guys stunning theeye
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
full sandal
!help
arctic walrus
what's up
rough agate
Do I always save vanish for tb
honest needle
^^
I was just gotta ask the same i thought when u vanish u just wanna make sure u get 2 mut off
i been parsing 85+ some 95-96 but i dont kno how to get higher
i think im doing soemthing wrong
rough agate
Just looking at sample log and its using tb on cd obv and then vend on cd but then waiting for tb to come off cd again and vanishing after tb
arctic walrus
4-5 cp > tb > van > env > mut >> either env if 4 cp or mut if not
plush remnant
If I line razor coral and unbound force minor together I get to 120% crit. Is there any benefit after 100%?
rose violet
❄️
short arch
If I only have one EB for m+, would I still go G, G, G, R, Bote, FoKx5?
jaunty arrow
How to use coral on skitra? When he use that "find me" clone ability and that clone die coral doesnt stack anymore on boss
dire terrace
crimson palm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZFXkL74fAHwCnqPr#fight=3&type=summary&source=14 can someone check (apart from the fact that I forgot a 2nd pot 😄 )
raven locust
Make sure you cast CLF before Vendetta
There was also a big gap in your 2nd Font and Vendetta
Also you refreshed Rupture after Toxic Blade which means you had to regain CP for vanish
crimson palm
The gap is there to overlap coral though
manic prism
When am i supposed to use vanish boys?
raven locust
yea nvm im dumb
cosmic prism
hey guys, is there a way to make a macro that is multifunctional so that if thing from beyond (above 40 corruption ad) is up it will target that and blind it, otherwise it will blind my current target?
latent field
Don’t think targeting macros work with it, like explosive orbs in m+
solid moth
If i dont have/will get CLF any time soon, what essence should i run for St?
As major
Nvm looked at wowhead guide, MB
cobalt flint
You can get a pretty good idea by looking at warcraft logs
Worldvein sims quite good for me, but if you clueless tanks like my guild does, then it won't give the same value as the sim
As movement sometimes forces you away from the crystals
deep wedge
I see a lot of top logs running triple or double double dose, yet when I sim myself I see that taking 2 isn't worth it, i'm supposed to trust the sim here right ? same problem with shrouded suffocation, every guide says that 1 is really important, however raidbots is telling me to not take it
drifting cloud
azerite has 3 traits
dont be so focused on one
its the sum of all 3 that makes the best pieces
deep wedge
so I should always trust what sim says and not focus too much on top logs when it comes to gear right ?
drifting cloud
yes
tame tangle
Also if you are simming ss traits make sure you have subterfuge as an option with master assassin btw
deep wedge
and obviously use my brain, if worldvein sims higher in a high mouvement fight maybe it's not the best in real situation
ah yeah
forgot about that !
sorry
subtle tundra
I sim 1x dd 
bleak spoke
do you delay toxic blade for worldvein or do you delay worldvein for tb?
the active i mean
anyone know?
viscid abyss
The damage double dose applies is sinergic with the mastery rating?
drifting cloud
yes
viscid abyss
Ty !
deep wedge
there is something i'm not really sure I understand well
If you play with subterfuge talent, on the opener you're not supposed to cast garrot 3 times in a row ?
strange python
Someone coach me in sin raiding, feelsbad being bad
nimble mesa
Hey guys, I'm coming from outlaw M+ & a bit of raid, and tonight we'll attack Wrathion (MM) and Siktra. The thing there is I'm not sure how to handle wrathion's phase with the spikes out of the ground, and how DPS looks in such situation for assass. Should I fok and build rupture, how many, when should I start envenom ? Like, I generally have no idea what I'm doing in those situations when there isn't a main target I wanna spend most of my CP on, and targets die fast. Should I try to rupture some of the one that are gonna die most likely last to pump energy? Any clue would be welcome 😁
Should I simply focus the one that are alone to help the raid as good as I can and leave the cleave to spec better suited for it? 🤔
Or just go outlaw? 😁
terse orchid
Just volunteer to do the dragon scale
strange python
Outlaw is a sin round these parts 
terse orchid
and then spam FOK on the rest, spread a few ruptures
nimble mesa
Not a bad idea Stricken
terse orchid
definitely stick with sin though, ST is the name of the game for wrathion
nimble mesa
Yeah I guess I'll do as you said
Makes a lot of sense
But in general for situations like that, what would be the strategy?
We're gonna suck anyway right? Or any chance to maintain a decent DPS?
terse orchid
You'll never have stellar aoe like a mage or DH there, but with FoK spam and rupture spread you can do decentish damage
nimble mesa
How much do you try to envenom in those cases?
Is it like "set 2 rupture" and try to envenom as long as they are up?
Or we go full rupture?
whole onyx
rupture everything!
I was just doing the further away ones myself
let the aoe padders do the padding, that makes them feel better
hot flume
hello, got a small question. Does DD damage scale with attack power and versatility or only versatility ?
loud silo
so i got a 460 socketed vita trinket but it sims worse than my 430 font. not really sure what to do
deep wedge
most trinket are bad compared to font and ashave tbh
fickle gale
Hey Guys, can anyone Tell me , Where should be the corruptionlimit for assa / Outlaw. ?
crimson palm
@loud silo https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wMjRbpt4b87jEkersy4cR5 475 Vita is a slight upgrade 😄
shrewd night
There is no limit outside your own capabilities.
fickle gale
yeah sure , but maybe there is a Limit or orientation as to what is playable. Should i go 40+?
keen verge
59 👌
fickle gale
Why 59 :)?
keen verge
cuz you can avoid the area of the eye easily and yesterday i did 11/12 H and the "Thing From Beyond" proc was like 3-5 times
in the entire run
my last sim from yesterday with 58
but the safest number is 39
warm parcel
You aint gonna do any relevant proge with 59
raven locust
Anything higher than 39 is definitely too dangerous for progression
crimson palm
Safest number is 0 tehnically 😄
spark sky
The eye also has the tendency to pop up at slightly inconvenient times
idle ember
How do guaranteed corruption traits weapons work? Are they the same damage whether it's a normal weapon or heroic? I have a 470 carapace dagger and socketed 455 carapace dagger and I can wear neither with my ring. Trying to figure out what - if anything I can do with them while I wait on my cloak for a month.
cobalt pelican
twisted appendage scales with itemlvl so the 470s corruption is worth more to keep than the 455s
if one of them ends up in your off hand and the other not in your gear at all you'd have to consider socket value vs increased ilvl appendage value, i'd imagine ilvl appendage would win but that'd be a sim question
idle ember
Ok. Sims is telling me right now to just cleanse both and gain a ridiculous damage boost but I'm afraid that's not productive to a future outlook. Especially if a Wrathion or M+ dagger is in my immediate future.
Thanks.
cobalt pelican
if you have other corruption items generally appendage isn't very hot, but you can just add a wrathion dagger to your top gear and see what a likely path is for you
idle ember
Good idea.
jovial plume
For the essences. what major en minors do you guys use?
hot flume
@jovial plume with every piece I get my setup changes according to stats. For now my best build is WV as major, Lucid Dreams Conflict and strife and Breath of the dying
hidden dirge
what azerite do you guys recommend for m+?
I used to run 3 ss & 3 eb, but my 3 pieces are all 435 now. Also some general traits like swiriling sands and blighborne infusion seem to scale really well with ilvl. Any opinions?
arctic socket
You need at least 1 SS 1 EB (sim for other options) SS/EB are sins Best aoe traits 
red plaza
A combination of ss/eb/and ttk and you’ll be good....or just get 1 wits trait and go outlaw 😉
ashen solar
tropic ocean
@tribal marlin how the fk u sim so high
im only at 67500
😮
@arctic socket at least 3 ss, else u'll hard gimp ur dmg
raven locust
Some of the sims are people using more than 39 corruption
slim olive
steep obsidian
so the meta is really gonna be fitting in whatever little bits of corruption you can as you upgrade your cloak from t1 and tier 2 items
i guess that is interesting i dont know about how fun though
raven locust
Pretty much, for progression you dont want more than 39
steep obsidian
yeah watching roger from method deal with all the extra shit coz hes running higher then that on his hunter is kinda funny though
raven locust
Eventually with cloak upgrades from N'zoth its somewhere around 180 resistance
slim olive
Using your cloak on use can help with bad overlaps but yeah 43 is manageable with movement and blinding the "thing from beyond"
steep obsidian
tbh the snare is the scariest one for me right now
when that shit procs at the wrong time it sucks
the pool on the ground is obvious and trivial
raven locust
Snare on mythic Shad was really annoying
outer lotus
My slow is 78% and it's basically a root lol
tropic ocean
im at 68415 atm
but with 39 max
corruption
idk
49* i mean :d
@steep obsidian thinkt he things are pretty hard
when u cant run frmo them
with 49 they pop 50% of my health
steep obsidian
I guess i need to make an effort to get to 80 seeings i was lucky enough to get the maut helm
we didn't do heroic before so i couldnt even craft my eng helm beforehand so i could trade it lol
faint harness
@tropic ocean 50%?
I have run 58 sometimes and get hit by approx 140k
sure as hell aint running 280-300k hp
58 corruption
more like 33% of hp, give or take
can probably run more corruption than other specs, we're quite tanky so it should be fine
sand whale
I just want EV3
faint harness
I have two EV2 and one EV3 x)
sand whale
https://i.imgur.com/W4ONgfa.png feelsidunnoman
sand whale
I have lmao
arctic socket
It’s a shame when a 415 ring sims better than a 445-475 ring 
faint harness
only 1
2 is if you have above 60 corruption
quite sure
at 60 you get the replicate mechanic
Also, 150k is still about 33% of your hp if you have 460 ish ilvl
deep crest
There is a chance for 2 to spawn even if you are below 60
tropic ocean
I have about 450k life with 475 475 465 azerite ilvl 463
faint harness
massively unlucky then i guess
tropic ocean
and idk in nzoth massively got ripped by these things so we forced raid to not go over 40 corruption
deep crest
But seen it only like 5 times tops so far, for which I have leg cloak keybinded
faint harness
yea i dont think going 40+ is for every boss
but you can definitely push the limits on some bosses
faint harness
at least cheat death is a dps increase
tropic ocean
sometimes even 160k
faint harness
shame we use vanish for dps increases
faint harness
i havent had that happen once
so i would assume its rare
help ur healers parse
equip more corruption
tropic ocean
buoyant raptor
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sand whale
I should equip some more to find out what it's like can you blind it?
faint harness
you can blind it
steep obsidian
not for full duration
steep obsidian
ahh
steep obsidian
i need to fiddle a bit on my rogue
paralysis on monk lasts 3 sec then it start chasing you again
faint harness
they might have hotfixed it
steep obsidian
should do a low key with stupid high corruption
faint harness
i havent run more than 39 corruption for a few days
steep obsidian
i only was running it coz i got t2 infinite stars legs on my monk before id even completed the cloak quest
tropic ocean
pretty sure they will change/nerf/tweak alot on that stuff
when u can wear 2xt3 and 1x t2 with higher cloak later
dps will go crazy
and noone will care on the debuffs
or tanks even
echoing proccing for 5.20% of max hp, or beam proccing for 48% of max hp
quartz rune
Yea end of Content will be fun
But i mean its the end of an expension so.. i dont expect blizzard to care that much
hot flume
Do the corruption trait stack ? I mean two echoing voids at 30 corruption are they worth a 60 ?
tropic ocean
yeah
2x t2 is better than 1x t3
but also more corruption
afaik
yeah 2x t2 is 2,4% max hp for 70 corruption
quiet gull
At least the end of this expansion will be interesting, with the cape leveling up with corruption resist we are going to be able to stack up some sick stuff
high nacelle
don't really think 58 is manageable but man I want to run EV 3 with TA 2 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jc9wEjvVjJko6ZrRgV84zy
dark crag
I went 53 corruption in hc, man is the eye huge
high nacelle
yeh :/
faint tapir
faint harness
outlaw has cheat codes for high corruption
vanishing removes the chasing dude
and they can do it all the time :/
wanton pond
jesus christ corruption is so dumb
i dont have any of the damaging one and i sim around 54
wtf is that
subtle tundra
honestly the drop chance is too low to keep your sanity for that
tropic ocean
idk man
im about 150ish dungeons in across 3 chars and so far I got
3x echoing void
2x twilight devastation
across them
and bunch of versa, void ritual, crit and other trash ones
you'll get all the stuff you need
wanton pond
interesting
ive probs done around 60-70 and have seen one piece drop
was for a random pug lol
tropic ocean
well rng is rng, you'll eventually get there
marble hemlock
getting the right corruption is like getting a very specific item titanforged
expecting to have it week 1 or 2 is a bit unrealistic
wanton pond
It's just so whack looking at the breakdown of a fight
And some having 3m plus damage from twilight
desert kelp
can y'all just hand over those good corruptions thanks
I too want to deal dmg
and yes, SS is the best I got for now
hollow hemlock
How much corruption is viable for raiding?
drifting nimbus
desert kelp
wait is 60k considered low
high nacelle
essences
sweet bridge
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rough veldt
how much trouble as sin rougue would i have solo visions? full clear. whats easier or better? yolo as outlaw rogue with decent gear or use my main spec gear as sin and do it
why is outlaw way easier than sin in solo visions
snow storm
sin is perfectly doable
outlaw aoe is more suitable and grappling hook is good mobility
but in the first week a sin rogue did a full clear, and i think most will manage with the elite extermination tech
rough veldt
ok, thanks for your time mate
vagrant tapir
how can you sim for neck level dps increase from the increased trait power?
spice nymph
K'bab, yeah
surreal solar
K’bab restores 100 sanity for 10seconds every 3min, did they fix it so it does the 200 for 20seconds tho?
royal torrent
does mythic wrathion slow debuff affect energy regen?
pearl pagoda
vvhat sanity are rogues running to be a little risky?
hollow stone
Oh poor you
hollow stone
You can wear more if you think you can get away with it. But its risky
tired galleon
Got double carapace weapons last night. Tentacle does big damage
tired galleon
Tentacles did almost 16% overall because of dmg buff on Psychus
limpid ermine
Is there a way to sim the corruption that increases vers when you take damage?
honest vessel
no, cuz different fights will deal damage more often
plush remnant
I'm told unbound force minor is dumb, yet is sims higher, and I'm told to trust whatever sims say
Which is it?
honest vessel
do you have other minors? it could be your best
plush remnant
I have every minor
plush remnant
breath rank 2
honest vessel
wow thats suprising
i guess herodamage does have breath ranks 1/2 at the same level as force rank 3
there you go
im surprised you arent getting strife/iris/lucid/blood or something like that
but if sims say it, go for it
maybe ur crit is just insanely low, so its boosting the unbound force
idk
valid sphinx
is anybody particularly good at log analysis? I'm 455 equipped and according to wowanalyzer/personal log analysis/research i'm doing my rotation flawlessly (when possible depending on fights), but on pure single target fights I can't parse above ~30-40% ilvl so I'm not sure if my stats are just terribly messed up or what
valid sphinx
undone pasture
are trinket sims still fooked or they r good now?
valid sphinx
we are hard carrying quite a few dps so maybe thats it
valid sphinx
i had triple double dose/nothing personal on lower pieces
but these sim highest, except for the chest
a 450 double dose/NP simmed 300 dps higher but i wanted the stam
honest vessel
that is uuuunfortunate
valid sphinx
yeah ill hit 75 today
should prob get 5-6% more damage from breath of the dying minor you figure?
honest vessel
depends, definitly a significant increase tho
pliant apex
hivemind must be hard on sin since our aoe sucks, should i use echoing blades on hivemind? instead of DD?
pliant apex
hmm im trialing, never done the boss, not sure how confident i am
honest vessel
definitely a long fight too, that'll hurt
valid sphinx
if our kill times were faster could have parsed over 100k
pliant apex
when do you use vanish ? when adds spawn?
valid sphinx
i think if you're actually doing the fight correctly youd want to vanish and garrote when the bigger 4-5 adds spawn and not the small ones, but if you're trying to pad probably just whenever you can vanish and get the most garrotes/energy/FoK out
spark cloud
When you sim, does the sim factor in the on use or proc of a trinket? I have a 420 dead-eye spyglass and just got a 445 kezan stamped bijou. For M+ im not sure which is better
valid sphinx
yes it does
honest vessel
you should fix your opener jaron, you def want to put two muts in the first MA window, and worldvein after vendetta and toxic blade THEN vanish (hopefully on full cp so you can MA env-mut-env with a little luck)
valid sphinx
hmm that makes sense i should probably delay garrote for a sec for the second mut
honest vessel
yeah you go mut (hope for 4 cp) rupture mut garrote vendetta wv tb vanish env mut env
valid sphinx
i had been figuring i would want the MA for the toxic blade but i guess you're prob right there too
honest vessel
or if you dont get 4cp at first go mut mut rupture garrote then into vendetta blah blah mut env mut in MA
yeah the toxic blade crit is sliiiiightly worse
but its not a huge deal
but it is something
valid sphinx
granted all of this only matters so much when the RL is completely fine with one of our healers not even knowing how to upgrade their cloak 😬
honest vessel
yeah, but focusing on improving yourself is always going to be the mindsight that gets you, as a player, the furthest
at the end of the day only you can change you, and only the baddies can change themselves
seems like you're pooling well before TB, but im not sure if you're holding the tbs at all
try and plan it out so you dont have to pool while tb is actually up to get value out of the tb, if you ever find yourself doing that
valid sphinx
nah i try to pool as much as possible without holding them at all
honest vessel
sick
mighty elm
ra-den trinkets simmin incorrectly, they better than font+ coral tho if u get both?
valid sphinx
separate note, but interesting thing i noticed last night.. logs dont really work correctly for skitra so if you wanna parse on that boss id highly recommend putting up a personal log. my details said 45k dps, one person's logs had me at 35k, and another had me at 39k
honest vessel
i dont think they're better than coral together, a heroic vita (the good one) was 600 dps lower than my mythic font....and 2k lower than coral
valid sphinx
so apparently combat logging can't pick up people across the different phases, likely to stop addons/weakauras
honest vessel
so i doubt the void one + set bonus is as good as coral
honest vessel
ya skitra logs are hella scuffed
valid sphinx
annoying cause i had a solid pull on that boss, def orange parse i think, but the logs had me 10k lower lol
honest vessel
i think if you personal log it it works but im not sure why or how
valid sphinx
it makes sense that it would be randomly different depending on the phase the logging person got
kinda silly but if they didnt completely block off the log in that case addons or weakauras could easily completely trivialize the fight
honest vessel
yeah that is probably what fucks it
hollow stone
Personal logs or having both of your tanks logging would solve the problem
valid sphinx
i dont think having both tanks logging would even fix it, i think only personal would. on average youd get split from each tank 50% lets say, so on both logs you're missing 50% of your damage from that phase, each tank with a separate half of that damage
hollow stone
Truuuue. Yeah, it might not be able to compile from the tank logs, you right
pliant apex
should i use crit enchants for nylotha raid heroic?
valid sphinx
if it sims higher
drowsy snow
do you play both sin and outlaw in raid?
valid sphinx
outlaw is for cowards who don't live love echoing blades
valid sphinx
tbf i just got that role so i can shit talk outlaw in their channel 😈
deep solstice
So if you run multiple effects of twilight devestation (IE 2 T2), you get 24% hp in damage , and proc rate felt roughly the same. nearly 300k aoe crits is pretty good. lol.
valid sphinx
outlaw would be so fun if slice and dice was the bis talent
urban junco
valid sphinx
dont WeirdChamp me smh my head
roll the bones is what kills that spec
and the pirate theme
rigid mango
Don't type about shit that's not relevant.
spice nymph
Might be a dumb question, but does Shrouded Mantle work with the throwback dmg on Maut for example? 
deep solstice
it's a reflect, not a dot, so it shouldnt
hmm, I see your point though, it does say for each effect negated, so it could?
I believe the HoT is applied when you cast cloak though, so realistically only DoTs buff the heal
(and non damaging debuffs)
honest vessel
i used leeching on maut, seemed good
deep solstice
we were considering using elusiveness
hollow stone
Elusiveness could be nice; feint, then cloak, then chill (or ps if youre lucky), then feint. Sounds nice at least
deep solstice
ya gives you most of your vendetta able to dps hard. we were thinking cloak during MA window though
deep wedge
what's chill and ps sorry
hollow stone
The only reason youd wanna feint first is so you can get another feint in vend. But then youre spending a few gcds in vend
Pain supp
And not going han
Ham*
deep solstice
well feint may not prevent your death if you get good crits during MA....would have to test it out
hollow stone
Might be worth to delay vanish for 5 sec to do what youre saying
deep solstice
True. as long as you have time left on TB you can vanish whenever
hollow stone
Yee
Havent done maut yet so idk what the timings are like. We were discussing it last night too
deep solstice
we are doing mythic tonight
hollow stone
Same
deep solstice
I had to afk a lot in heroic P2, so I think elusiveness is the play
I run a high haste IS build, so my dots are ticking like crazy in that phase....hard to keep my health up.
hollow stone
On our last heroic kill, i tried vend without using ANY cloak or leeching or elusive. Died real quick. Had to for science lol
Even called it before doing it
“Gonna vend here and not use persies, prob gonna die” “ok”
deep solstice
I cloaked MA and health pot / healthstone....was able to use most of my vendetta
hollow stone
Good to know
deep solstice
our holy pali is a beast
deep wedge
do you usually delay vanish to empower garrote ? or do you allign it with vendetta ?
deep solstice
most of us are not running Subterfuge, but if you are you will be able to always line up vanish and vendetta
both are 2 min CDs
Ah I see what you are asking, havent played subterfuge in a while. There is that 20 sec delay on it. Would depend if delaying would cost you a vendetta, but 95% of the time you delay for vanish
a lot of the fights in ny'alotha dont time out well for 2 min CDs anyway, so it wont be an issue at all sometimes
hollow stone
Yea. Using ss subt for st, you hold your first van for after the first emp garr falls. Then for 2nd vend, you hold til van is back up so you can have the emp garr in your 2nd vend window
Then theyre synched for any addition vends
reef mulch
any1 know if corrupted gear bugs out when using gear sets? Running rank1 and rank3 mindflay and didnt proc once on Ra'den... or just terrible rng?
hollow stone
Personally no issues. Prob better to ask in gen chat
reef mulch
oh crap wrong chan my bad
regal river
Can the shield reflect dmg from Maut be immuned with cloak for 5 sec?
hollow stone
Yes it can @regal river
deep wedge
Thanks a lot for your answers 🙂
burnt dome
dumb question, most rogues are using worldvein major on skitra
same usage as clf? before vanish?
deep solstice
SIMC APL uses WV before vendetta
hollow stone
Yea. Same spot in opener and then on cd to keep it synched w vend timing
real bay
final hull
Can somebody tell me how to fix it or how it works ? (sry for that windows notification)
vestal wren
final hull
ok but i still needto do something
Top Gear requires at least two combinations. Make sure to select some additional items, enhancements, or talents
but when i click on copy and purify corupted items it works
white wyvern
You need to select different options for your corruption gear to be replaced.
spark cloud
it shows the pieces in your bags as well as equipped, pick pieces that are not equipped to compare to. i just watched a few videos on it
also, for someone who only runs M+ and doesnt raid, why does icy veins say i need 35%-40% crit priority over everything else? also am i able to set up in pawn for it to get me to that value, and once there, look for upgrades that keep me in that range but still boost other stats?
sorry thats probably word vomiit but idk how else to explain it
hollow stone
I think seli updated icy veins. Check if it was him and what the date was. For m+, you def want to stack crit to around those values. I would go w that. Problem w sin m+ is it’s tricky to sim.
As a general rule, mast/vers after “crit cap” (hate calling it that but dont know what other term to use)
spark cloud
after crit is there an ideal % i want for anything else? i feel like looking at it that my haste it's low at 10%, mastery is at 43%, vers at 9%.
yes i simmed myself with all gear on person and in bags, but for M+ thats harder to sim since weights are different
hollow stone
Haste being low is not a problem thanks to venomous wounds. It feels kinda bad on bosses but worth it overall. My m+ info is out of date so idk about anything beyond crit. Prio was mastery next but i think w 3eb 3ss vers > mast
Sin does not sim well for dungeon slice
Youd be better off setting whatever, like 30-40s fight 5-whatever targets and then considering boss fights with approx times as well. Pretty jank but thats the best we got atm
@rigid mango can you help this man more? My m+ info is hella out of date
rigid mango
That's a lot of text
3 EB SS you still pump mastery first
SS is high prio, still pumps most of ur damage
Crit to 37-40~%
Mastery as high as possible, vers is never bad
spark cloud
oh damn so i gotta pump my numbers up more then haha, i can probably hit that cap with regemming once i get gear that isnt shared between by pvp and pve sets. thank you guys for the help! btw what is EB and SS? I'm assuming SS is shrouded suffocation
echoing blades for eb?
spark cloud
okay cool cool i was right
hollow stone
Thx zine
spark cloud
i guess another thing actually (im sorry!) if i have say a 435 chest with SS but got a 465 chest that doesnt have SS, whats prio
cloud seal
Vita + Void anything to care about? sims like ass dunno if its broken
shy axle
rogue mate got 2x carapace daggers with socket and the corruption did 35% of his overall dmg
uff
vagrant tapir
yeah, obviously its going to vary from person to person
But assuming you can take your pick of pieces
im wondering if the perfect setup will include the chest
Sort of like how gorak tuls was part of that ideal set last tier
nzoth shoulders have probably disrupted that though
echo cargo
Do we know which corruption effects scale with haste?
hollow stone
Thats the real question. Will nzoth shoulders finally dethrone goraks?
rigid mango
Pretty much for sure did that.
hollow stone
Okok. How bout heroic nzoth shoulds vs goraks? :p
vagrant tapir
cant run this through top gear cause I dont have the pieces. If you have to chose between getting your NP on a 475 piece in place or a DD versus the opposite on the 485 piece, where would you put it
rigid mango
Gorak should win.
vagrant tapir
yeah goraks at same ilvl
rigid mango
BBI is still BBI but afaik it doesn't quite outscale the value of nzoth shoulders
We'll see, last time I checked it didn't.
vagrant tapir
BB if you np on another piece, and they have OP and nzoth shoulders dont
rigid mango
Might be some mumbo jumbo stuff with corruptions or some shit that makes it doable
vagrant tapir
Looks like you would want your higher ilvl piece to have the NP, I think
candid jasper
Anyone have any corruption weakauras?
vagrant tapir
I never use gear compare, will it add the 5 ilvl trait on its own?
vast forum
are people actually using focused resolve pot or is that a sim meme?
rigid mango
It's getting +- 0 for a lot of people for some reason
Honestly nto entirely sure what's causing it
idle ember
Would stars cause it?
vast forum
also, sim is using feast as default food, which should be the worst option
i understand it's hard to set a default food cuz stat weights are so versatile for assa but agi food is legit the worst option in every case
honest vessel
i think its a good idea, agi impacts the other stats less than they impact eachother, so it makes sims for top gear/stat weights etc more accurate
agile oar
Hey guys, I wanted to know around how much energy should i be envenom spam? When i'm saving energy, I was told 100 but that seems to much in my opinion.
vast forum
but it makes sims less accurate
quick harbor
Hey people, wondering if i should cleanse dagger from carapace to replace mind flay with echo void tier 2
Because i only have 445 daggers instead so base damage of the hc dagger is nice
dark crag
You can sim a cleanse and if that gives you more dps, then do it, but its irreversible
vast forum
i wouldn't cleanse anything yet
dark crag
Only cleanse the real bad stuff on good items
turbid osprey
how use font coral on drest?
font prepull then pop everything when i get a debuff?
strange python
my 430 font beats 460 vita trinket by 1000 dps
royal lantern
font is very VERY strong, new trinkets are somewhat mediocre
vast forum
font coral is a mostly ST thing tbh
royal lantern
I just told him why font is simming higher 
undone pasture
is the ra-den trinket combo good?
crimson palm
The 475 wrathion trinket is 150 DPS upgrade over 430 font when using worldvein
If you really want to get rid of the font 😄
wary ice
Is dungeon slice a good enough sim for checking m+ stuff or should i nut up and sim for situations?
strange python
Are people seeing font/coral falling off in any of their recent sims? Swapped from another melee to rogue for this tier and I don’t have the combo. Farming coral weekly but am hoping I don’t also need to farm font.
narrow comet
nope font coral still top
whole mantle
strange python
Depends on what you get. True BiS definitely won't be 3xDD since carapace chest doesn't have it
civic palm
DD / NP / HoD
red bloom
^^ this
civic palm
HoD might seem lame but it's surprising value if you can get the corruption for it.
As always, not all Corruptions are equal and simming your options [ https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear ] will net you a similar but likely better result than shooting in the dark on gear combinations.
weak isle
anyone care to explain to me why i still am off almost 15K dps off people with same/close to ilvl? im close to 75 trait btw
arctic walrus
they got luckier with corruption
weak isle
its a gear compare ^so ilvl inacurate. should be based on item from highest dps
but 15K from just corruption?!
see difference
ilvls are still close
arctic walrus
shit like twisted appendage, echoig void, and infinite stars will add 10-20k
cobalt pelican
you're using a 400 ilvl plumage idk what oyu expect
pearl pagoda
does void ritual sim with allies or alone?
cobalt pelican
font coral is a huge gain, any azerite even ones not in the gear compare are huge gains, you don't have any of the essences that get insane at rank 3 at rank 3, you don't have 75 neck, not a single socket on your gear etc
void ritual defaults to no allies i believe
pearl pagoda
i got tier 3 ritual belt 475 crit mastery from my chest
i want to use it but ritual sims poorly
cobalt pelican
it doesn't get much better with allies
add bfa.void_ritual_increased_chance_active="1" to an advanced sim if you want to check the difference
weak isle
alright thats clear ty
lethal kraken
is assassination still viable for m+? is not running outlaw a mistake
cobalt pelican
playing assassination at the current point in the tier is kinda hard like, my outlaw set is 475 in all slots and my assasination is.. 450.. still..
super playable for sure, still the same downsides to outlaw as last tier so won't be played a super lot
and you don't always get a re when you use the spire cause the mob puts you in combat pretty quickly
weak isle
kinda suprised, i thought i did have decent azerite pieces but guess not
snow storm
when spamming stealth i've managed to get at least subterfuge on the spires
still akward tho
cobalt pelican
yeah i think you CAN get it the majority of the times if you're mashing it as the spire cast goes off
but it's just a pain in the ass
snow storm
yeah and as you say, i've had no luck getting good EB pieces so far
fallow cypress
Does anyone know if you use Lucid Dreams major the same in what was posted originally, like towards the beginning of the expansion? I think it was right after vendetta window or near its end when energy starved?
cobalt pelican
yeah it's still roughly the same, use it when you'll first get actual value out of it
which tends to be like 25 seconds in or so, you usually get into some sort of rythm with it after a few pulls in current haste
tropic ocean
@weak isle corruptions are gigantic atm i sim 67k if I remove 1x 460 t2 echoing void and replace it with 460 socketed item i drop to 61400dps 🙂
weak isle
Ye its insane
I like got back this patch from a massive break after BoD
So i had no clue What was going on
And here i am competing ilvl but have no dmg
But atleast i knew i had to grind my essences, which i am doing
And corruption is just weird lmao
weak isle
NP and DD are still bis traits right?
Sites do say so
Cus nameless fairy claims my azerite is bad
tropic ocean
they are really good
but u will be using azerite of 2 last bosses 100%
cuz of higher ilvl
vital haven
it actuaslly depends
for the chest
the vexiona chest is really competitive despite it being 10 ilvl lower
weak isle
Well pretty sure ilvl doenst matter as much as traits, i know that nzoth has bis traits
But didnt 2nd last boss have 1 bis?
vital haven
the shoulders are prob gonna be bis
weak isle
Ye for sure
But chest isnt that great in the raid
Head is good too if i remember correctly
tropic ocean
in hc last boss chest > vexiona chest on my sim
cobalt pelican
they're v comparable, vex chest is ~0.1% better in my current gear but i still have a stars so op is probably pretty valuable
ember viper
Dont suppose anyone knows if the Maut reflect damage is counted as aoe damage for some reason?
rigid mango
Don't think so, I ran elusiveness for it.
proud salmon
if its two target cleave
what is your opener like if you are running shrouded?
just triple garrote?on each?
void pecan
I garrote rupt tar 1 garrote rup tar 2, then refresh at pandemic with vanish on 2 target, but that's probably wrong..
slim estuary
I haven’t played seriously since antorus but was considering raiding this tier. For the horrific visions, what cloak level should I have to solo 5 chest it
drifting cloud
with elite talent its decently easy
without it just depends how good you can minmax
but after cloak lvl 5 the sanity drain only goes up every 2 ranks
karmic fjord
Heya! I was wondering if this is some decent DPS for M+, any opinions?
lusty narwhal
karmic fjord
ooh, alrighty
and should haste with crit and mastery be high?
or prioritise haste?
drifting cloud
you should be avoiding haste for m+
with enough bleeds up in aoe you have infinite energy regen
drifting cloud
also cannonball is really bad
its a sim trap because if your target moves the trinket can just do 0 dmg
karmic fjord
Do you know what's it called?
drifting cloud
dead-eye spyglass
karmic fjord
ah, yeah I see it on the list
thanks!
though Torment in a jar comes as number one dps wise
oh, that's from Nyalotha raid, nvm
tropic ocean
@void pecan pretty sure in 2 target cleave u garrote t1 garrote t2 garrote t1
to get most enpowered garrote duration
And vendetta the target with 2x garrote
void pecan
Sounds better than what I do sometimes. Thanksfam
next solar
did they fix being able to cloak paranoia on nzoth?
fallen forge
How good is twilight devastation for sin rogues?
lyric crater
shy dust
just sim your top gear
inland escarp
Does vision major trigger nothing personal?
arctic walrus
yes for reduced duration
inland escarp
tyvm
hollow stone
@next solar yea. No inmunities work on it now
near coyote
is logging on the prophet skitra broken? I see different every week then whats on the log
are the logs right or are they based off what logger sees too
drifting cloud
yes it is, thats why its disabled on all stars
near coyote
my GM said its just because its not hard enough boss
and what he posted is right
( him number 1)
lol
noble mesa
are any of the nyalotha trinkets going to be better than the font+coal combo?
near coyote
i dont think anything beats coral, but a few things beat font
dense forum
worth replacing?
i cant decide cuz the 2nd row trait kinda looks like garbage for assassin and outlaw
spark sky
Endless hunger is pure stats, if you don't trust the sims for that who knows
manic prism
Anyone know when im supposed to use woldvein?
errant viper
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
boreal root
Are mechagon bracers good? the ones with the use effect?
warm kettle
Is it true that Gushing Wounds only can come with 15 corruption? Then I made a big mistake removing mine earlier this week. I thought it was bad because I wanted a stronger corruption
tame tangle
That was indeed an error
young portal
Pins dude
young portal
Was gonna say, it is in there
jaunty arrow
Want to try blood on wrathion insted of clf/wv
faint harness
I think outlaw is better on Wrathion, if you can play it
vanish removes the movement slow debuff (if we talk mythic)
That mechanic basically doesnt exist as outlaw (rotate cloak and vanish)
drifting cloud
lol
small island
just use shadowstep cloak and warlock gates and u should be fine on wrathion
acoustic sleet
the st damage req in wrathion mythic is huge. being a rogue doesnt have trouble with the slow mechanic at all.
faint harness
The ST requirement isnt that big, just don't die
drifting cloud
if youre gonna give terrible advice, maybe better if you just dont give any
the movement mechanic is a joke, theres 10x more assa logs for a reason
faint harness
depends on your tanks tbh, being able to move freely is a good ST boost anyway
faint harness
Absolutely not
viscid abyss
I saw on bloodmallet the SF stacking has way lower dps than Scent but I haven't seen any ladder players stacking scent or even having 1 of it so decided to ask xD
ty Push !
brisk forge
subt sims like 3k higher then ma :S is that a thing now? :S
grizzled jay
Maybe cause of your traits. MA sims higher for me.
brisk forge
went for ma stuff but accidently simd subt and it turns out way higher maybe cuz i got high haste or something :S
faint harness
Any linkers to the sim?
brisk forge
give me a sec and i´ll link
2K diff, not the typo 3* xD
Really need to pay for sims, so boring to mess around with that little iterations 😛
brisk forge
yeah outsim worldvein as minor
faint harness
yo, what kind of haste do you have with that corruption and those items
brisk forge
25% so might be why subt sims higher XD
trying to get rid of some but wont drop anything else xD
brisk forge
i did not, can do tho
faint harness
and yes you should definitely pay for the service if you use it a lot, big QoL
cheapest is like what, 3 bucks
brisk forge
yeaah i should and will pay the fee after this sims 😛
rugged tundra
Does twilight devastation dmg/proc scale with the item lvl of the corrupted piece ?
scarlet urchin
no since it's % based it scales off your general ilvl (higher ilvl -> more hp)
faint harness
dang
brisk forge
well subt it is then for me apparently xD
drifting cloud
wtf is this disaster sim
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jJ6Pi9frZD9j1rgAB8PDqd here you go 2k more dps
only reason its simming higher for you because you dont have 25 corr to activate chest
faint harness
It has to be 25 corruption above the reduction
potent raft
lol wut the slow on wrathion is barely a mechanic to consider, having shadowstep for every single movement phase you dont even need warlock gates
but CLF did not feel good at all at this fight.. i should try WV next week (no bote rank 3..)
and outlaw is only for aoe padding, but our raid had no troubles killing every attackable pillar so.. hard pass
distant lava
Clf should be fine ? Don't you have it everytime he comes back to phase 1 ?
distant lava
Clf ?
distant lava
Vendetta yes but clf is 3 mins
distant lava
VoP minor btw 
potent raft
without fucking up much
faint harness
Killing pillars isnt aoe pad
orchid solstice
Is VoP minor actually worth for wrathion?
distant lava
Sounds good to me honestly
potent raft
you might squeeze a second vendetta into p1
distant lava
You get 2 vendettas off every phase 1
potent raft
but ofc you lose vanish sync
distant lava
For example zine got 4 vendettas in our kill and I got 7
distant lava
I played the rest like a special boy so Ididnt beat him but still
Zempai has rank 1 with vop minor atm
faint harness
i guess the loss isnt that big with another minor slot too
faint harness
ye
drifting cloud
its not a loss its just better
for that fight
if you did 1 pull with it youd see why
faint harness
Yes thats already established
potent raft
well top logs (on boss dmg) is just the regular setup
2nd best is with bote +vop minior
faint harness
But before, with vop minor (even if it was the play on certain fights) was still a dps loss
zaqul.. etc
faint harness
first vendetta is with vanish, 3rd, 5th, 7th etc
distant lava
The thing is it's just a free vendetta
crimson palm
Unless you have logs to back that up, vop sucks.
faint harness
check the top logs on the fight
distant lava
@crimson palm using logs to back shit up
long hill
what's the max corruption do you suggest for mythic progress as assassination?
distant lava
potent raft
39
faint harness
tbf that rogue has some insane infinite stars
plain moon
I’m 19 on wrath
potent raft
i have rank 3 IS too, but on our kill pull rng didnt like me
crimson palm
Did you really link a vop log with infinite stars
The top logs with infinite stars using the standard build are ahead
distant lava
It's just common sense
Do you value the 300 vers you gain from conflict
Higher than 2 / 3 extra vends ?
potent raft
the log with vop and without vop
did the same IS damage
(20k difference)
so they are mostly on par
crimson palm
Yes because during those synced vendettas I will do more dmg than during unsynced ones
crimson palm
Look at the top logs on the fight
distant lava
I have the same synced vendettas as you do
But I have extra vends that do a bit less dmg
Stop looking at logs
That's stupid
crimson palm
Lmao
potent raft
basically "is 300 vers worth it more than 3 unsynced vendettas"
crimson palm
You have no clue what you are talking about
distant lava
No
drifting cloud
he has more clue than you for sure
distant lava
The fact that you look at logs for validation
drifting cloud
if you did 1 pull with vop youd see why
distant lava
Means you. don't understand shit
potent raft
nah man LOOK AT LOGS, top boy is doing this your ideas are stupid
crimson palm
If your idea was good you would be a top log
distant lava
No ?
potent raft
😂
distant lava
What an idiot
drifting cloud
youre actually handicapped arent you
crimson palm
Yeah, including the rest of the top50 rogues that didn't run vop
distant lava
Cause they didnt bother optimizing an easy boss
crimson palm
Suuure, why would a cutting edge raider bother minmaxing
drifting cloud
and besised 6 logs in top10 have vop
faint harness
its wrathion
drifting cloud
so wtf are you even talking about
faint harness
1st boss, nobody cares
i played outlaw to get rid of the slow mechanic and basically played heroic version, but thats just cus im lazy
potent raft
slightly offtopic:
when using bote major what's your opener? bote or vendetta first?
i will actually have to grind this shit
distant lava
Vendetta tb blood vanish env mut env
potent raft
ok so blood after both vendetta and tb
drifting cloud
4-5 cp when you tb
distant lava
Yep
potent raft
thanks
faint harness
you'll be poppin off, almost doing 50% of fire mage opener 
faint harness
silly spec
deep crest
Just have prestacked EV proc on pull 
potent raft
swirly ball dps increase confirmed
faint harness
its like playing casino during any downtime
spamming it a bit, you're now at 4 stcks
do 1 more to get 5? potentially lose them all?
potent raft
😄 too bad it doesnt work outside of combat
faint harness
when wrathion is up in the air it works
potent raft
some lucky fuck will go into a boss with 20+ stacks
faint harness
i tried to fish some there but kept depleting them
potent raft
i have IS 3 for sin and ev 2 for outlaw
half the guild is complaining about not having corruptions :x
faint harness
I have EV3 + EV2 in both specs, but running at 58 corruption x)
Getting a thing from beyond WA and macro'ing blind to it tho
potent raft
hmmmmm i'm thinking if you run IS, on wrathion, do you straight not dps anything p2 (provided your raid can manage) and explode wrath with all the rppms unwasted? 😄
faint harness
can you stack ppms?
potent raft
that's my feeling
i get 1-2-3 stacks pretty quickly
then there's a lull
on opener
sullen pagoda
Thats not how rppm wotks
faint harness
I'm not sure how the haste works
sullen pagoda
U dont stack it lol
faint harness
And i dont know if this is like the deck of card stuff
potent raft
you dont stack it but you also dont waste it
sullen pagoda
U do waste it
faint harness
that chinese guy had 28 procs in 9 minutes
so haste can improve procs to 3 ppm (?)
potent raft
say you have 2 procs per minute on average
if you are attacking for 2 minutes non stop you'd have about 4 procs
if you are attacking for 1 min 30, you'd have slightly less than 4 procs (but more than 3)
so haste can improve procs to 3 ppm (?)
yes it's hasted
as soon as i got IS my haste shot up skyhigh, i can't move out of CLF because of it
faint harness
just like EV takes a dump on haste i guess
sullen pagoda
doesnt mean you save up procs it means you wasted potential procs
rppm doesnt stack up cuz u afking lmao
warm parcel
rppm does stack afking
potent raft
well call it feelycraft but i disagree. you are still in combat
warm parcel
both time since last proc
sullen pagoda
Do you have some proof of that weak
warm parcel
and time since last attempt at proc
first was 60sec iirc and second 10s
so you have to have an action every 10 sec to not lose chances
imma try and find the blue
its ancient
sullen pagoda
yes thats my point that not attacking u lose chances forever
warm parcel
I mean sure
sullen pagoda
it doesnt mean if you sit afk for 2min that you will have 10 procs in 20s when boss comes down
potent raft
but i want to get as many procs on the target i want
not as many procs in total
sullen pagoda
and im telling you afking pillar phase wont help you with that?????????????????