was gonna ask how you fit it into the rotation
#assassination
ripe gulch
how do i open up tho
brave vector
In pins
sinful island
@ripe gulch If you check pinned messages
gusty mirage
@drifting cloud if I still had a dedicated group I agree but I'm assuming pugs because most peeps pug. You're right though honestly it doesn't really matter until you're pushing 20s
drifting cloud
affixes matter way more than 1-2 azerite traits especially when theyre still decent ones
I mean I did 15s with people in 390 boosted gear lol
just because it was an easy affix week
gusty mirage
true
drifting cloud
and like I said its just so hard to get proper azerite, if you dont have the bis one youre always going to be 1-2 traits off
since im pretty sure we only have 1 ss, eb per slot
unless theres some pvp ones
gusty mirage
It's a feelsbadman, my azerite pieces have better sub traits than sin traits for m+
candid anvil
sub is destroyed rn, isn't it? i thought about trying it in m+ but memes about the spec were just too rough
brave vector
There’s 2 shoulders for eb/ss but the rest is only 1 😦
gusty mirage
yeah our azerite trait distribution is awful @brave vector but 8.3 should open that up a bit with the mechagon azerite pieces
quasi pewter
sub is pretty bad yes
gusty mirage
we have like 2 more options 
pearl pagoda
sub is fine but the work required to play correctly and make little mistakes compared to outlaw or sin is laughable
brave vector
But the 3 ss 3 eb gear would have been fun to play with
candid anvil
you have actually perfect gear for dungs like kr, sob..
brave vector
Filthy casual luck I suppose
ripe gulch
i just got 3 3 this week
i do 100k dps on 5 mobs
the garrote dmg is insane too
its by far the most dmging ability
brave vector
Even with mechagon we’ll only have one ss/eb helm next season. Ny’alotha literally not dropping anything feels bad
pearl pagoda
i feel like upper mechagon is going to be a serious sin dungeon
that place has like a dozen mobs lmfao
candid anvil
What was your overall Jokerino
Main thing ppl do wrong I'd say they use envenom on 5cp even when there are plenty of mobs, from 4 target I think it's better to just spam foks and keep ruptures up
With 3 ebs and plenty of crit ofc
pearl pagoda
as long as theres no serious prio target yeah id agree
but thats leading into trying to do what outlaw does too much
ripe gulch
i just get rupture and garrotes up and if i dont have what to do with cp i envenom
i just dont see the reason to run crimson tempest
you lose a lot in single target to gain a bit in aoe
quasi pewter
you dont lose alot
pearl pagoda
why not play hidden blades and be a massive meme king
if youre going whole hog aoe you gotta go the whole way and go HB 3 EB
quasi pewter
poison bomb on st is like 1k dps
pearl pagoda
i think the proble is that CT is 0 dps on ST though
and poison bomb still does techincally decent aoe dmg
brave vector
Literally using the picture you posted shows poison bomb did 3% of your damage for the whole dungeon
quasi pewter
why is that a problem when its very good on aoe
candid anvil
and you know what? i will give a try to 3hb 3eb build, my premade tank hates that he can't chainpull anyways 😄
pearl pagoda
wait ut
true nexus
this a UR 16
candid anvil
nice dmg from purification protocol 😮 i should probably get it
pearl pagoda
definitely should
ripe gulch
and holy shit u guys are right
garrote garrote garrote is better than rupturing in aoe
why didnt i think of that
im dumb
strange python
ripe gulch
with 3 shrouded its way better
pearl pagoda
yeah triple garrote is better than almost anyhitng you can possibly do
in almost any situation
unless theres like 80 targets and you have 3eb and full hb stacked 🤔
ripe gulch
the guide doesnt mention vop 😦
gusty mirage
vop minor has been a recent trend afaik
pearl pagoda
in m+ vop is fine because during trash you dont really care about pairing vnedetta and vanish
gusty mirage
you'd use it if there's a priority target
true nexus
i guess just on cd
pearl pagoda
so long as you correctly plan out using vendetta on cd
pearl pagoda
find a prio target and hile you spamming ct and fok hatever is the prio target vendetta that and melee it
ripe gulch
thats why i use it
gusty mirage
yeah that's why a lot of higher rated people use it too @ripe gulch
ripe gulch
as long as you dont vendetta a dotless target or a low hp target you're fine
so should i always run crimson tempest on m+?
rigid mango
Outside of kr/siege/tyr tos ye
true nexus
i like it
ripe gulch
tyr?
brave vector
Tyrannical
ripe gulch
oh ofc
sinful island
Off-H wep DPS does not really matter right? Stats/sockets over ilvl?
young portal
Indeed
true thistle
Hello there
tepid fractal
general kenobi
true thistle
3x echoing blades; 2x shrouded suffocation; 1x twist the knife
good for general teeming dungeons?
rigid mango
ye
rigid mango
You can just search sin rogues though.
narrow pagoda
hover over M+ then search through spec leaderboard
true thistle
ay right
forgot bout dat
gettin b after 4mc break
any upcomming changes for next patch for our azerite traits changing meta to current playstyle on m+ scenario?
gusty mirage
no sir @true thistle nothing significant changing for assassination
candid anvil
Simming is not good.. you can sim on different number of targets tho
Or just ask here like I do lulz
true thistle
<- every time i asked i got this emote as response xD
arctic walrus
not when the topic is sin m+
true thistle
Well, okay then, so i will go for it
How should my stats go, for mythic plus, as assa 3xEB, 2xSS, 1xTTN: agi > crit > balancing haste and mastery?
and what about versatility, should i go for some kind of softcap like +7/8%?
cobalt pelican
crit > mastery > vers > agi > haste probably, with some common sense applied in regards to gear you own
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
candid anvil
no balancing, 0 haste and 0 versa is a win I think
true thistle
what about ilvl?
rigid mango
Vers is still good.
true thistle
if i have to chose between stats and item lvl
still going for stats if difference like max 10lvl?
else, ilvl?
candid anvil
even 410 with crit mast is better than 440 crit haste imo, idk tho never tested it
quasi pewter
depends on the amount of stats
id value haste at like atleast 5-6 if crit/mastery are 10
for m+ overall
cobalt pelican
don't think i'd ever use a 410 piece of gear vs a 440
unless it's like
rings
or sockets were involved
candid anvil
I mean, faster ticking dots are for nothing (almost, your empowered garrottes always run til the end, until you totally outgear the dungeon)
what else do you get from haste
quasi pewter
like my 450 socket ashvane ring has haste
candid anvil
except little higher dps on bosses
quasi pewter
you realise the duration doesnt change you just get more ticks
and garrote is ur #1 damage dealer so its not nothing at all
candid anvil
oh you right mb
quasi pewter
crit mastery are better for sure but haste is not useless
candid anvil
I'm not sure if that's irony or nah
true thistle
no its not
as a person who asked about how to simulate properly for m+
its lot of info
vast forum
i would agree that haste is somewhere around 50-60% of value of crit/mastery in m+
candid anvil
Hmm gotta think about my wrists, have 430 crit mast and one 430 crit haste with socket in bag...
On wrists socket is just too strong i think
vast forum
probably crit haste socket is better but the difference is probably not big enough to worry about
quasi pewter
meh, id propably take the socket one but thats close
true thistle
👌
arctic walrus
prolly not
cobalt pelican
unknown, wouldn't be surprised though especially if you're sitting on some thick ones
civic palm
I believe Coral will still be used for a while unless you got unlucky with it, or get extremely lucky come 8.3.
rigid mango
Mythic ones are probably gonna be used as far as possible until deep into mythic
civic palm
Should be a lot less annoying though with the potential loss of font.
Weeee shaaaaall seeeeee.
rigid mango
I mean the only thing I see beating them are buffed raid trinks/mythic
cobalt pelican
not rekilling azshara ever guess i'm just praying for a forge
at least i get a 435socket maybe it's enough . . .
dark barn
question on Keystones. Do you use Crimson Tempest on ST fights? or just aoe
civic palm
Just AoE.
dark barn
Thanks
rigid mango
2+
civic palm
CleavOE
silk storm
are there any sims out there for the corruption effects on rogue yet?
arctic walrus
no
silk storm
f
elder jasper
so for essence usage if I didn't raid in eternal palace is it still worth getting the condensed life force for a major essence or should I rock lucid dreams or crucible as the major
cobalt gyro
i wouldnt bother clf is getting nerfed next tier so it shouldn't be BiS or anywhere close
elder jasper
so then should I use lucid dreams or crucible for my major essence
tepid fractal
idk
should you?
drifting cloud
you should sim it because we dont know the ranks of your essences
tepid fractal
good for you
leaden lichen
@elder jasper use raidbots and just click all the rank 3s you have and sim it
storm lodge
@elder jasper I guess your question is more around 8.3 and considering there aren’t any sims for that right now, id still try and get the missing ones. Maybe not clf because if you didn’t raid at all, it’s going to take a while and it’s only strong (currently) at rank 3. I’ve heard vision is pretty bad because it Desyncs vendetta from vanish. You can try and get blood of the enemy rank3 because it’s actually doable in a week, albeit painful and a possible contender for the minor slot
wise idol
In m+, is there difference between blood of the enemy and iris big ?
Dunno if it's worth farming bgs
strange python
its worth farming it
wise idol
fuck me
I can imag ine having rank 2 minor is nice but rank 1 can't be that much better than iris
strange python
farm rank 3
wise idol
na i'll end up killing myself, that's what blizz want peeps to do
That's why they made this essence
drifting cloud
man its been out for six months
youve got your answer, if you dont want to get it suit yourself
wise idol
Yea so ?=P Doesn't mean people play the game for 6 month
drifting cloud
its bis tho
wise idol
Hmm maybe pvp IE is faster...
drowsy snow
You can also wait until March for comp stomp and afk that for a few hours.
wise idol
yea 😛
storm lodge
i got mine while korraks was up
horde, and i won 95% of the korraks...i was averaging about 800 honor per win total...grinded 17k in 2 days. couple of others in my guild also just sucked it up and spammed random bg's in a group... its very grindable in 1-2 weeks
pvp IE is annoying if you run up against professional island players who decide to farm azerite super quick and stomp you during a big pull and turn it into a pvp fest
civic forge
i just finished farming bote from 0 honor to 30k in like 2ish days
this week makes it fast due to the buff
grinded about 15k honor yesterday alone
doing normal solo bgs
wise idol
if i do LFR, do i also get AP from normal and HC ?
quartz depot
no
worn crag
Easiest time for Bote was arathi KI with a pre-made group out of 15 people. 2 minutes win with 5:0 points 👌
wise idol
Yea did it on my shaman, was going to do it on my alts too but all this grinding is killing me
true thistle
What is avg honor gained in honor week?
I am talking about single bg, for example warsong
still totem
Prob around 600 when accounting for w/l as well
bronze kelp
@quartz depot ahm... he does get AP from nhc/hc, cause lfr only grants ap per completed raid wing, not per boss
placid kindle
got a question, whats up with assa rogues topping on ptr atm when it comes to m+
placid kindle
nah, not talking in that way, people are saying there is some busted shit going on
spark sky
I think there's been some ridic echoing void numbers from PTR, but can't really expect those to go live. 30-50% of all damage from that corruption, not a chance
placid kindle
ye that
storm lodge
I think they buffed other corruption to match echoing void right ?
Rather than nerf echoing void.. same difference I guess
spark sky
Well they nerfed the tank weapon corruption a lot so I fail to see how having another corruption being 50% of a tank's damage ever making it live
sage forum
Hey folks. After reading a little about energy management, could someone speak on when exactly we should be pooling energy? From what it sounds like, we should be pooling before every finisher to maximize elaborate planning usage? Aside from when pooling would cause us to overcap energy ofc
candid anvil
Pooling is most worth before using your Toxic Blade, so you fit as much envenoms in as possible
vast forum
in general, as long as you're not overcapping energy, you're doing a good enough job
candid anvil
I have a question as well, what are bis traits for raids? I have 3dd 2ttk 1np, is there some better combination?
young portal
Bis currently consists of 2xdd, 1xbbi, 1xnp, 1xloyal and 1xttk. That setup assuming you have multiple people running loyal. If not then 3x dd, 1xnp, 1xbbi and 1xttk. Chasing bis at this stage is pointless though
candid anvil
I have like 3 azerite pieces of each kind and I'm going some run so I thought I will check if i can have bis traits or nah
thanks for advice 🙂
vast forum
what's most important
is that you have 3xOP
a ttk/NP/OP piece will sim better than a DD/NP/non-OP
for example
shut garnet
doubt (x)
at least for me, orgo shoulders sim waaaaaay below radiance shoulders
which are dd loyal non-op
you wanna make sure to sim whatever azeritr pieces you get
vast forum
orgo has SS which just isn't very useful atm unless you're doing speedkills
shut garnet
orgo has ttk np op mate :p
vast forum
oh
weird that it sims worse for you than radiance then
unless it's a 2nd NP maybe idk
true thistle
ik that this topic was before(kinda like) but:
is blood of the enemy rank2 enouch, or should i go for rank3?
shut garnet
bote only good at rank3
no point playing it at rank2 just play iris in the meantime
but get bote3
quasi scroll
Does Azerite elemental (guardian essence) benefit from Vendetta?
(is it worth waiting for essence to be up to use Vendetta)
cobalt pelican
the damage the essences does isn't effected but it gives you 10% haste and the damage amp from the minor permanently on your target so if you can line them up without missing any casts you do
quasi scroll
ah, got it
Wonder if it's worth using VoP minor to get Vendetta CD closer to the other's CD
nimble marlin
Anywhere to find rogue dps sims in Nyalotha/curroption yet?
rigid mango
no
nimble marlin
It is up for mages already :/
rigid mango
Cool.
rigid mango
I know everyone is eager for information about the new patch but as of now rogue has none. There will be pinned information and updates for when they get released and our findings will be shared with everyone.
deep meteor
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
quasi scroll
Is that the endorsed guide?
I've seen guides on a few sites that sometimes have conflicting info
rigid mango
The ravenholdt one is the one directly connected to this discord
But icyveins and wowhead are both top notch stuff and are more indepth because of the resources etc.
If you have anything from the assa guide that looks incorrect just dm me and I'll take a look at it
shut garnet
pinning shit as if ppl that come here read the pins first 
quasi scroll
From the Ravenholdt one - is it all still accurate?
rigid mango
Afaik it is.
rigid mango
^
shut garnet
as some stuff might not be
quasi scroll
thanks again
rigid mango
I havn't looked through the guide recently but nothing big has changed since I did the opener changes
So I don't see a reason that the sin guide atleast, would be out of date.
rigid mango
Don't really care tbh, it's somewhere for me to refer them to
ashen solar
But it's a nice effort
rigid mango
Not necessarily just assume they'll read it.
ashen solar
Fair enough
worldly fable
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rigid mango
Just like the fok change, I/everyone can just respond w ctp instead of answering a tiring question
quasi scroll
I actually had read the pin, but I noticed that the guide is ~6 months old
rigid mango
Nothing's changed since the beginning of this tier, i.e 6 months ago.
arctic socket
Blizzard should give us rogues more love with 8.3 😦
rigid mango
Not really.
ashen solar
That would cause more bitching than necessary
And possibly end up resulting in a nerf
We already have two excellent specs
rigid mango
There were
arctic socket
Which pins would those changes be in?
cobalt pelican
they're not pinned anywhere, the changes are on wowhead and they're just numerical changes
cobalt pelican
things won't be pinned until they're either set in stone or actually relevant to playing the game
cobalt pelican
rigid mango
pin it lads
arctic socket
mild vapor
hey guys does anyone have some spare time to look over these logs and give any feedback to see what i can do to improve on boss and to improve in general
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XYP9jbTr3zL2fFvq#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=19
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XYP9jbTr3zL2fFvq#fight=18&source=19&type=damage-done
brave vector
Looks like your biggest issue is using TB on cooldown
You had a funky opener on radiance too
And fight length was almost 6 minutes with only 2 vendetta casts
steep obsidian
id make that mistake too if it went too 2nd transition probably 😛
but i think that only ever happened once in my guild after first kill and only when we had crappy alts
brave vector
You did the opener right on sivara but then butchered it on radiance
rigid mango
Overcapping CP like a mofo
brave vector
And you missed at least 4 TBs each fight
rigid mango
TB usage is sporadic
mild vapor
i'm not sure what happened with radiance to make me butcher the opener, would keeping a closer eye on tb seeing when it come's off cd be better to make sure i get more of them off
brave vector
You just pop TB on cooldown
If it’s off cd press it, preferably on a target that can eat some envenom afterwards, don’t worry if your capped on CPs or pooling or anything
wild edge
Are 25 cp wasted by Seal Fate at the first 4 bosses mytic normal? kill length 3-4 min
or do i have to much crit?
steep obsidian
sim your gear if crit is your best stat you dont have too much crit
that doesnt sound too bad though
mild vapor
@brave vector thanks for feedback
wild edge
@steep obsidian just wanted some comparisons, saw that I wasted much cp and energy sometimes(or I just think it), want to know why.
Now where i am thinking about it, I could just look some logs from other rogues. - I am a idiot xD
steep obsidian
if you do a sim and look at the detailed info you can see how many cps wasted is average for your gear too i think
wild edge
hmm thats a nice information
steep obsidian
you might just get insane rng but that is good not bad 😛
as long as you arent muting at 4 nothing you can do
wild edge
28 cp wasted - it sims for 5min, i think its ok zaqul i have a bit more , court a bit less, thank you ^^
And normaly im not muting at 4 :`D, waste of normal spells are towards 0
versed oasis
Jukill 👋🏻
versed bobcat
guys, if i complete 15 key next week - do i get mythic lvl loot in hc week or hc lvl?
dusky tinsel
you dont get mythic loot until the 28th, so doing a 15 on the week of the 21st
end of dungeon and weekly chest is capped until mythic raid becomes available
versed bobcat
so no loot on 21st right
no loot above 440*
or lets say, whats the best i need to complete next week to get loot on HC launch
gusty mirage
idk what the exact ilvl cap is, but yes. Every seasonal transition has gear capped until mythic raid drops. So you'd want to do as high of a key as possible that week (so you can get a high key for the uncapped week) and then spam lower level dungeons that are closer to the ilvl cap
latent path
really stupid and fast question since i'm not assa since ages ago, double dagger or mh dagger whatever oh?
gusty mirage
double dagger, can't mutilate without 2 daggers
latent path
ok, thanks!
gusty mirage
np ❤️
hollow raven
So you don’t save toxic blade for a few envenom a, rather pop it on CD ??
quasi pewter
you want to pool energy for tb so you can get as many envenoms into the window as possible
but you pop tb on cd, dont delay it
hollow raven
Yeah exactly ! Ok so u do pool energy and hopefully 5 cp for it on the lead up
If garrote is falling off the boss and ur in the tb window, do u cast mutilate or garrote
quasi pewter
dont let garrote fall off
bleeds are always top priority but you should try to avoid having to refresh them in tb
sometimes thats not possible tho, then its ok to refresh garrote
severe sedge
how many targets is mut still best at with 3 dd?
shut garnet
huh?
stable isle
think its somewhere around 5, could be wrong
severe sedge
aight
grizzled trail
think im being an idiot, messed around with my vendetta fireblood macro now cant get it working
can some1 just copy and paste me one x
nvm sorted
brave vector
Is ineffable truth corruption available on the ptr/has anyone played with it?
rigid mango
Seems very mediocre.
brave vector
Bleh, I don’t see anything on rppm. Was curious how it interacted with VoP, getting vendetta to as close to a minute cd as possible seemed like fun
true thistle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
1 PPM iirc.
true thistle
anyone reccomand any utilioty WA for https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)?
reccomend*
stable nest
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ZgRNrsMZaYAcTPq1uUcyc is this viable for m+?
quasi pewter
double dose is really bad
if thats ur only chest take the np instead
and maybe vision then
minor
stable nest
alright
mighty elm
when do u cloak console to not get debuff 
mighty elm
1st click?
royal lantern
when you have the debuffs
mighty elm
ty (:
strange python
do you guys consistently fit 4 envenoms inside your TB windows? read that here somewhere
rigid mango
@mighty elm 
rigid mango
No 4 in each window is perfect crits.
mighty elm
I DIDNT DO IT ON PROGRESS LEAVE ME ALONE
rigid mango
strange python
ye, thats what i assumed. tyty
bleak spoke
@rigid mango what's the highest sin sim you've seen
rigid mango
56.1
bleak spoke
goddamn
rain remnant
Why is it that I see a lot of people put Force Multiplier in the offhand?
arctic walrus
Because it doesn't matter what weapon is enchanted
rain remnant
Thanks, I guess I was just overthinking it
arctic walrus
Competitivewow btw 
strange python
Hey guys do you know what specc we play in 8.3 raid?
arctic walrus
Someone is safe to comment on the post and tell him he's wrong, if you feel like it
loud mason
anyone could do an short explain of 2th row lvl 30 talents 😄 ?
arctic walrus
Never use nightstalker. Use subterfuge when running the trait shrouded suffication (mostly m+), master assassin in all other cases
loud mason
thanks!
covert mesa
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
leaden garden
Hey guys, hows asa looking for next patch? Viable? For m+ and raids
dark crag
Maybe
leaden garden
Outlaw looks better for both raids and m+ or?
arctic walrus
I mean we don't know
m+ is a bit stunted atm for sin because your bis, and arguably only good combination of gear will be from vendor
gusty mirage
Depends on your definition of viable
tepid fractal
same meta, same bfa, same traits, nothing changed
rigid mango
Different raid.
tepid fractal
different encounters, same rotation
tepid fractal
you dont understand meaning of 'meta' i guess
rigid mango
Guess encounters don't matter for what defines the meta huh.
tepid fractal
exactly. gameplay didng change a bit for 1.5 years except u now have 1 extra boring button (heart ability)
drifting cloud
but meta did and thats what hes saying
strange python
you dont understand meaning of 'meta' i guess
tepid fractal
same garrotes same vendettas. bleh, boring
quasi pewter
encounters are exactly what defines meta
rigid mango
Guess you really don't get the word meta.
tepid fractal
if changing to oulaw on 1-2 encounters is different meta...
tepid fractal
nothing happened to rogues except sub nerf. same burrons, same gameplay
quasi pewter
you cant define an overall meta when there is so many different activities in the game
outlaw is meta for m+ but not for raid overall
but it might be meta for singular fights
rigid mango
And looking at the next tier there are a ton of specs that I would've ranked under sin that might be higher than sin
because the meta changed
because the encounters changed
tepid fractal
outlaw is meta for m+ but not for raid overall
but it might be meta for singular fights
and this thing was through all bfa. nothing changed
tropic ocean
Nope
quasi pewter
outlaw was not meta s1
quasi pewter
it was also not as bad in raid as it is now in uldir
rigid mango
Thought we'd had enough clown time in outlaw earlier
tropic ocean
sin is not „meta“ in ep as well
tepid fractal
outlaw was always prefer choice for m+. so in s2 s3 s4 etc
rigid mango
How has nothing changed through out BFA like
tropic ocean
If you could u‘d only take rdps
drifting cloud
do you even know what season we are in or do you just type random stuff
rigid mango
have we really played the same expac
tepid fractal
what's wdym
tropic ocean
Like some guilds did
rigid mango
What do you mean
plain moon
I mean hes talking about the meta for rogues, so this is kinda irrelevant
strange python
is this sins autoattack? 🤔
tropic ocean
meta for rogues
drifting cloud
rogues are part of the meta
rigid mango
Nothing to gain from this (:
tropic ocean
Theres either meta or non meta
🤔
not sure playing the best spec out of 3 has anything to do with meta
drifting cloud
what changed between tos and antorus for sub? nothing
then why did we run 5 rogues in tos and 2 in antorus
tepid fractal
TheNumberPurple got me right. i'm telling only about rogues in bfa. same gameplay, same choices for 1.5 years (excepth sub nerf and few minor traits changes)
rigid mango
Yeah so apart from stuff that goes against what you said
rigid mango
I suppose it was correct.
So if you don't count the things about what you said that were incorrect, you were correct!
tepid fractal
@drifting cloud uhm set bonuses changed?
drifting cloud
not for sub
but yes they changed for other classes and we had different encounters and we had a different meta
tropic ocean
i cant follow anymore
drifting cloud
tropic ocean
the raid design mostly dictates the meta not the changes to rotation or traits
quasi pewter
i think this "discussion" should come to an end
tropic ocean
unless completely broken like demo lock traits were
spread fights or high st burst will prio sin
tepid fractal
@drifting cloud in legion yes. every season was different in terms of gameplay and best best choices
tropic ocean
cleave fights will prio outlaw
tropic ocean
but also that changed in bfa already
because uldir you played subterfuge
and not master assassin
so you had different rotation as well
🤷
tepid fractal
@quasi pewter outlaw was freakin good first half of emerald nightmare and whole s1 in m+
quasi pewter
first half of emerald nightmare
drifting cloud
emerald nightmare prog lasted 1 day
quasi pewter
1 month
drifting cloud
lol
tepid fractal
@quasi pewter and thats still couple of months. before assa got his stats and weapon traits
quasi pewter
tepid fractal
you're weirdchamping me but i'm not wrong about it
spice surge
It might've taken you months to get those traits
tepid fractal
still u telling me im wrong but that doest change a thing that rogue gameplay and preferable specs for diff encounters dont change for 1.5 years
rigid mango
That doesn't mean the meta hasn't changed.
tepid fractal
more targets? -> outlaw
st -> muti
same in s1 s2 s3
drifting cloud
well still wrong
tropic ocean
its sadly not like that
or as simple
azshara has more targets as well
yet sin is way better for progression
tepid fractal
@drifting cloud i m not telling about other classes. i compare legion to bfa in terms of rogue gameplay
tropic ocean
same for zaqul
spice surge
Rogue had 2 specs in legion too, they just swapped sub and outlaw for bfa
tepid fractal
@spice surge which in legion were different in different seasons
drifting cloud
xpac was 2 years, outlaw was good for first 2 weeks before its traits got butchered
spice surge
Not really, outlaw was never the best*
tepid fractal
its not lasted 1 day. its stupid saying it lasted 1 day if top guilds killed it in 1 day
most of the guild it took months to clear
some guild didnt clear at all
tropic ocean
🤡
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
👉🏿 👈🏿
covert schooner
I think I'm doing my rotation right, but I want your guys' input. Heres the link to my character. Should I switch to Hidden blades or crimson tempest, and if so, whats the rotation for that
arctic walrus
well you're asking about your rotation but we can only see your gear
Do you have any other azerite pieces? 1 ss is pretty bad, and 2 ttk is also bad if you have 3eb
don't take iris minor in dungeons, pick up vision or c&s
take ct for aoe heavy dungeons, and pb for kr/siege
covert schooner
untold current
@covert schooner are you asking about m+ or raid ?
covert schooner
M+
Sorry, more specifically AOE rotation*
I just started a month ago, so I don't have any better azerite traits
strange python
"pb in kr/tos/siege ct rest" someone here i cant remember
untold current
thats zine's go to line
strange python
and for rotation look in the pins
covert schooner
Didn't see those
thanks
@arctic walrus Is vision 1 better than 3 iris?
Don't bother FoK on 2 targets right?
Also with CT talented what's the single target
drifting cloud
you dont ct on st
drifting cloud
yes
covert schooner
Do I bote before vendetta on ST?
Garrote x2 Rupture x1 BoTE Vendetta Multilate x1 toxic blade x1 Envenomx1 Multilate till 4, env repeat?
strange python
first vend then bote
covert schooner
ok
strange python
its also in the pins 🙂
drifting cloud
if you bote and vendetta after youre just making it do less dmg and also losing 1 global of bote buff
strange python
essence usage
strange python
probably
strange python
just use iris major if you dont have blood 3
covert schooner
Iris lowered my damage by 4k consistantly, am I using it wrong?
drifting cloud
well bote2 is poop so probably yes
covert schooner
Well, how am I supposed to use it in aoe situations if I'm losing 4k, i'm doing something horribly wrong
outer lotus
How did you measure that
drifting cloud
youre not losing 4k
covert schooner
well I ran 10-15 on iris, and bote since then without swapping gear
outer lotus
It doesnt work like that
covert schooner
Was doing 37, doing 42 with BoTe
outer lotus
I can do the same key with the same people with the same pulls twice in a row and do 5k less dps on one. So much uncontrollable randomness in dungeons
covert schooner
So let me know what I'm supposed than, telling me I'm wrong wont help make my situation better
outer lotus
I guess you use it after subterfuge when you open from stealth
covert schooner
I'll give it another try
drifting cloud
im pretty sure if you ran without an essence it wouldnt be a 5k dps loss
so its just your biased data
drifting cloud
but bote2 is basically half an essence
well youre the one clamining youre doing 5k less what can I do about it
if youve already convinced yourself
covert schooner
You already told me I was wrong
You came back to say it again
I just stated something, I didn't keep mentioning it
I'm wrong, move on
I didn't convince myself, I just said that's what I thought happened
drifting cloud
yeah just saying theres no 1 slot big enough in the game to cause such a big dmg difference
and like vaugh said, no 2 keys are the same
covert schooner
I get that, I just haven't ever hit below 40 since then. I guess I'm getting better groups
Should blood even be used as a minor as 2 then?
drifting cloud
no, its pretty bad
covert schooner
Can't stand the 30 minute queues on pvp to bother getting 3rd
covert schooner
I honestly don't know what that is
strange python
it lets you queue as alliance and get quicker queues
strange python
there's a guy near the pvp chest thingy you can talk to for it i think
covert schooner
Thanks for the info
I'll work on 3 now
only 20k to go, how hard could that be. Lmoa
drifting cloud
if you like watching series on your 2nd screen it goes fast
covert schooner
How long are the queues usually with mercanary enabled?
drifting cloud
alternative is you can wait till march or whenever the pve brawl returns
but if m+ is the content you do most, its best to just get it over with
covert schooner
There's no information on how much they're getting nerfed this patch is there?
Think it's going to be good still?
drifting cloud
we dont know if the new ones might be better, but for m+ for assa I doubt it
covert schooner
Oh, that's whats changing, I heard something about bote not being top next patch and assumed it was a nerf
Thanks for the information
strange python
wishful thinking of people not wanting to farm it
covert schooner
^
strange python
and probs you read that in outlaw
covert schooner
It was an irl friend who said it on discord
Now I'm an ugly Gnome, not an ugly goblin
Is it worth queuing for Epic BG's? They take a long time for not a lot of more honor
drifting cloud
really depends which one you get
some are pretty good, some not so much
like winning av is really good honor for example
strange python
if i get defense in wintergrasp i leave and just play something else for 15mins
drifting cloud
def in wg is pretty ok tbh, it takes a long time sure
but as def in wg you have like 80% wr if not more
strange python
its too risky and way too long
drifting cosmos
🤔 as an ally I lost most of epic bgs
covert schooner
so just skip ebgs?
drifting cosmos
You still get honor if losing tho, gotta kill more/do more dmg
But smaller ones are more fun too so it's really up to you
outer lotus
Getting in your First win of the day should be worth it
sage forum
getting differing opinions.. if you're running master assassin and your first mut gets you 3 CP, do you mut again or rupture?
drifting cloud
you mut
rigid mango
should be in pins.
rigid mango
If it's tyr 1, 2 tops. if not 1 tops
rigid mango
You can take 1-2 for either, prob would stick to 1 for tyr tho
strange python
Consensus for KR is 0 EB then i'd say?
rigid mango
Yuh, you could probably run 1 for fort but just stacking SS and shredding works really well
strange python
Cool cool, those 2 are the Dungeons I consider running assa over Outlaw. Will be fun
heady aspen
Do we know what trinkets we want to run in 8.3 yet?
shy dust
What are good trinkets for M+ as sin?
Given already running a spyglass. Debating between 445 coral or socketed 455 resonating
sage forum
Is there a way to enlarge the rupture and garrote icon on ElvUI enemy nameplates?
neat estuary
What order should my 3 Essence be ?
strange python
Order doesnt matter for minors
But the First one should obviously be the one of which you want the Major Power
The other 2 can be in any order
covert schooner
For AOE which one of these traits should be my major, and which minor https://gyazo.com/d5aa08db4bff5d992f714d9e09c4a899
arctic walrus
go do 30 minutes of quests and get rank 3 flame
then iris major and lucid/flame minor
probably
covert schooner
Ok will do
main blaze
Anyone know if there is a neck level catchup in 8.3 like there was for alts in 8.2. i.e. auto level 35?
outer lotus
There is, the quest sets your heart to 50
strange python
hey, for assasination, im using raidbots, im at around 24%haste and 40% mastery, and a lot of crit, but crit seems to always be a higher stat for me, how come?
like sim wise in raidbots, the value of crit is much higher then the other 2
could someone dm me with an answer please if needed Ican send my profile etc, thanks in advance ^_^
quasi pewter
sim is correct as long as youre using the correct settings
how much crit do you have?
strange python
im using statweights
to put it lightly crit isnt an issue
since im offspec from outlaw as assasination
quasi pewter
you should use top gear to get ur optimal stats from gemming/enchanting
covert schooner
Hey I'm trying to do the cruicible questline, but I'm not sure if I have the quest
Is a fresh trauma part of it?
strange python
@covert schooner whats your neck level?
covert schooner
67
strange python
you only get access to the questline when your neck level reaches a certain value
covert schooner
way past 54
strange python
ok then in chamber of hearts
arctic walrus
Kalec should be standing 2 feet in front of you
covert schooner
covert schooner
I accepted it, it told me to go somewhere I went there and turned something in
strange python
your neck level is 67
arctic walrus
lol
strange python
like
arctic walrus
then you should've talked to the npc
covert schooner
lol yes
arctic walrus
go back to valsharah
strange python
yh u need to talk to maiden or something and then it takes u on a quest chain
in valsharah or whatever
then hyjal if i remember correctly
covert schooner
ok, thats the quest then. Thanks guys
covert schooner
Finished the questline in mount hijal and it just ended with the person in the chamber
It ended with mother, didnt get the thing I needed to level it up
Hmm
I defenitly did the wrong questline lol
strange python
were you inside the emerald dream thing already
rancid bobcat
i can buy 1 full azerite piece from vendor, but what 
distant lava
fastidious machinations
trick the game into thinking you want that
so it doesn't give it to you when you gamble next tier
rancid bobcat
looking like cephalo atm and i prob wont play assassination in dungeons
And I can already play 2/2/2 if I do want to
I was considering fastidious actually to drop 1 twist into ss
But realistically I'd only play mut m+ for fun
faint harness
Stack haste, go full bleed + exsanguinate in 8.3
was bis in uldir cus of ridiculous haste numbers, guess it will be back with corruption affixes
rancid bobcat
There's like a lot of multitarget fights in nyalotha right
Also I'm pretty sure bleed was better in uldir only cause we didn't have shit for stats yet
faint harness
maybe
rancid bobcat
And only single row traits
faint harness
but you had sick haste numbers in uldir
cus of the reorigination stuff
but yea, and garrote trait wasnt nerfed yet
I've played some with exsang (for fun) during EP reclears and its not complete garbage
rancid bobcat
I mean even in uldir TB pulled ahead in the end I think
faint harness
it did
distant lava
didn't it also have to do with the fact that dd didn't exist as it is (not sure about that) and that SS was way stronger than it is now
dayum you already said that mb
rancid bobcat
I don't believe DD ever got changed
distant lava
I think it also had to do with the choice of trinkets at the time
faint harness
think it came with BoD
faint harness
and NP?
distant lava
poisoned knife
rancid bobcat
Toxic wire or some shit
distant lava
yeah I do
faint harness
did they remove it?
faint harness
it did but got buffed in BoD
rancid bobcat
It did but it did get buffed in 8.1 I guess
faint harness
so it technically didnt exist
assassination azerite traits were actually terrible in 8.0
distant lava
?
rancid bobcat
Also I checked my old logs and I guess DD did suck since I didn't actually use it on any M ghuun kills
faint harness
Sub was ahead for few weeks
until they gutted the spec
SS also got nerfed quite heavily
@rancid bobcat pretty sure most ppl played TTK and poison build
at the end of Uldir
rancid bobcat
No it was just 1 shroud 2 archive
Cause you couldn't rely on getting dungeon azerite
arctic walrus
1-2 shroud or 1-2 archive
Dagger in the back, swirling for 3rd options
Such a shitty time
faint harness
yea
i played sub for most of uldir so didnt get to live through it
had bits and good tfd
rancid bobcat
Can't recall if twist was even on any uldir pieces
faint harness
actually better azerite than now
rancid bobcat
And can't confirm since they changed them anyway
distant lava
good tfd ?
distant lava
wasn't tfd introduced after uldir
sage forum
So I read that ideally we should be casting TB as soon as it’s up and that we should try to avoid needing to re-apply dots, but is it worth holding TB for a second or two to re-dot or should I just cast it immediately
shut garnet
just reapply your dots before TB comes off cd
what would you be doing otherwise whilst tb has 2-3 seconds to come off cd?
when tb is a couple of sec off coming back, make sure ur bleeds are reapplied and you're pooling energy at 4-5CP
sage forum
Rgr, thanks
subtle parcel
does anyone here pvp? should i take wound or deadly poison for pvp?
subtle parcel
oh sorry didnt check thanks though
brave vector
We’ll patch isn’t out yet so buffs or nerfs to come but I’ve been messing around with the ptr spells in raidbots and it looks like infinite stars corruption SLAPS for sin
Which seems in line for just about every other class it seems
dire ivy
brave vector
What’s interesting is strike through is not coming in as high as I thought
urban junco
What about gushing wound after the buff?
brave vector
Currently for my gear set I’m getting stars3, stars2, racing pulse 3, and honed mind3 in that order
cobalt pelican
i'd honestly just recommend waiting a week or so before bothering playing with them
like a lot of them are dysfunctional
brave vector
Gushing wound literally coming in at an extra +84 dps
urban junco
XD
brave vector
So it’s either really bad or like nameless is saying just straight up broken
And not simming correctly
urban junco
Gotcha.
brave vector
Interesting that the mastery buff is coming in so high but yeah, stars r3 is giving me +3004 dps by itself
urban junco
That's pretty substantial.
nimble skiff
Where is a list of azerite drops from Nyalotha?
vagrant brook
candid anvil
Do you think bote will remain bis for next patch or nah? Trying to figure out if it's worth grinding while it's bg week or nah
For aoe situations, in m+
shut garnet
kr siege and temple
and yes definitely grind bote and have it r3
while no one can be 100000% sure, it'sbest to be safe rather than sorry
candid anvil
I have 22/30k of honor but it's just pain to play bgs rly... Hate blizz for forcing me to play pvp
robust light
done 12.5k in 2 days from daily wins and a couple extra wins
its not that bad really
royal lantern
^
candid anvil
If I grind it and then find out it won't even be used as minor in next patch imma commit suicide lol
robust light
altho i have only lost 1 so far so im sure itll feel way worse when i loose some :p
royal lantern
i did the 100k grind for rank4 when the essence stuff was new 
daily win alone is HUGE
candid anvil
Always when I play bgs I scream, a lot, when I get healer to 5k hp and then 6 guys raids me in 2 seconda it's just so tilting, wish I was speller that doesn't need to dive
royal lantern
chill mate
why are you getting angry at a random bg
like
its almost pure random if you win or lose
cus its not who is better, its about wich team has less total failures
(thats not really sin related anymore tbh)
candid anvil
Unfortunately my work allows me to play just some days in week so it's frustrating I can't do one per day..
You're right, plus ilvl matters a lot, if they have heal with hp 400k+ and you're the only one focusing him it's just impossible
And you're right with this not being related to assa, sorry :x
shut garnet
@royal lantern wdym by daily win
like just daily random bg and random epic bg first win bonus?
royal lantern
yes?
shut garnet
how is that enough to give 30k in 5 days?
royal lantern
he is at 22k allready lol
shrewd pebble
Hello. Sorry for asking im new to joke. But is it worth farming Blood of the enemy rank 3?
shut garnet
yes it is its the best in slot essence for mythic+
for assassination
and for some bosses
shrewd pebble
What about ST and for raids?
cobalt pelican
you'll probably want it as an option going forward
there's not really a good reason to not have it
quasi pewter
get it now or you will likely regret it later
strange python
Isnt Comp stomp coming in a couple weeks?
cobalt pelican
april 1st
potent thistle
anyone here able to/wouldn't mind taking a look at a guildies logs to determine why he's performing sub-par?
rigid mango
Yah
potent thistle
that's his overall but i'm looking at the recent logs after we've told him to sort himself a bit but he's still sub par
one thing i'm noticing is he's not using toxic blade from wowanalyzer but ik to take it with a grain of salt for some specs, is his downtime supposed to be that low?
hallow coyote
Well it say's right there that he's the worstrogue
potent thistle
not a clue
rigid mango
What's his discord name I'm like 99% sure I checked this dudes logs within the last days
potent thistle
it's to the point where i've had to jump to discs for guildies to try and see wtf is up with some of him
tiv/worstrogue
tiviiana or some shit
white wyvern
'tiv/worstrogue' 
rigid mango
Yah
He/She got help yday
So should be all set.
Obvious but easily fixable mistakes.
potent thistle
ah sweet thank you anyway then
rigid mango
covert schooner
Hey guys, is there any reason people open on ST with Garrote, Rupture, Garrote. Instead of G x2 Rx1?
cobalt pelican
longer empowered garrote
opal minnow
is anyone here saving TR at the start of the new season to buy gorak tuls asap? its an idea that was floated in my guild about certain classes stockpiling. not sure how worthwhile gambling pieces would be if we get heroic pieces off nzoth and carapace
covert schooner
ignore that comment
cobalt pelican
you can't save tr
it'll get deleted next reset
or you mean like
from week 1 to buying?
generally saving for specific isn't worth it, there are a lot of upgrades you can get besides goraks and probability puts it at like 300k max spent before you get them; obviously you can be unlucky and never get them but eh
bold orchid
hey ive been simming via raidbots.com and checking out the gear comparison and stats weights, would you guys consider that a reliable source?