not really no, and you cant really accurately sim it as well
#assassination
shrewd lion
Yo
Im level 70 assasination rogue but i dont know what is more important for gear
I've got 2 things that are 30 ilvl higher than previous gear, but if i equip, I'm losing a total of 20 haste point
would 2x30+ ilvl be more important there?
cobalt pelican
you gain other stats though surely right
cobalt pelican
seems weird to only gain 12 crit if you're losing 20 haste
is one from the previous expansions content
like one tbc item one wrath item?
i'd recommend taking the ilvl regardless as a baseline policy till max level but yea
shrewd lion
Yea i think they're different expansions
one i know is wrath item
Other im not sure
cobalt pelican
probably what's causing the weird disparity then
usually with gear if you go up in ilvl you gain some mainstat, and a net gain of secondary stats
like you'd get +15 agility, -20 haste but +32 crit or something
sage forum
does anyone know a good weakaura/addon that helps me track my bleeds? I like the way some HUDs do it, but I don't want a full rogue HUD, I just want to see a big icon when I have my bleeds activated on my particular target
I also feel like there is a way to do this on Elvui, but I don't quite know how to do it 😦
cobalt pelican
don't really know what you're looking for, weakauras for just rupture and garrote?
half pewter
hey guys, where can i learn the abbreviations of skills which are mentinoned in pinned messages, im a fresh rogue so cant figure out which abbreviation is which skill
shut garnet
@sage forum do you just want like a big rupture/garrote square that counts down and lights up at pandemic?
brave vector
I think this one might be what you’re looking for @sage forum https://wago.io/HyiaugniQ
Honestly though you’re probably just best off setting up name plates for tracking, most of them do it by default. It’s a little annoying to track at first in big pulls but once you’re used to it it’s better than any weakaura imo
desert leaf
is it mastery and crit whos stat focus for assinaiton
rigid mango
For m+ yeah.
brave vector
Crit > mastery for m+
sage forum
Thanks friends! @brave vector I’d like to set that up on my Elvui but I’m unsure how. Can you select certain spells like garrote and rupture and make them extra large?
desert leaf
Elvui is a entire interface
weakauras are small areas liek buffs ect
hekili shows you rotations
cobalt pelican
you can do it with elvui nameplates if you really want i t's just a mild pain in the ass
like you'd have to make a new filter and then resize it
orchid solstice
Not worth using Focused resolve anymore?
rigid mango
shut garnet
is that the iris minor im fucking Pepega
rigid mango
It's the crit pot
orchid solstice
Have a question about the opener aswell actually!
If you mutilate crit (4 cp)
then rupture
Then mutilate again (cause you still have master Assassin rolling) and get another 4cp Mutilate
the rotation is then to: Garrotte, Vendetta, TB, Vanish, Envenom, Mutilate, Envenom
BUT if you do this youre wasting the TB combo points
should you delay the TB or do an early envenom
subtle tundra
if it means going into tb with full cp, then its worth it
orchid solstice
okay so opener just means sometimes a few wasted cp thats cool
subtle tundra
you tb at 5cp even in normal rotation
subtle tundra
you tb at 3+ cp as far as i know
half pewter
@cobalt pelican Thanks mate
eh, G is garrote but whats G1, G2 , G3? Garrote target 1, target 2 , target 3 ? :S Whats BotE
rigid mango
yes and blood of the enemy
half pewter
oh okay
hot urchin
Coral trinket gets its benefit at the second vendetta and every vendetta after that it seems, no?
latent gazelle
yes
hot urchin
If that's when you're supposed to use the consume
Because the first go you pop it on opener but you vendetta so quick the first time
latent gazelle
yes second vendetta and every vendetta after
latent gazelle
unless using inkpod
hot urchin
I have that equipped too
latent gazelle
then save stacks for 32-5ish %
hot urchin
Ahhh so literally let the stacks build until the vendetta in 30% range?
latent gazelle
unless something has changed. you save coral stacks for 32% for when inkpod pops
yes use coral stacks before 30% for the increased crit chance for inkpod
hot urchin
Awesome, ty! And when not using inkpod, every vendetta including and after the second
obtuse cedar
rigid mango
If you wont lose a cast from doing so, you can delay your CD's to pump them just when inkpod procs
But that needs prior knowledge on kill timers
hot urchin
Yeah basically all comes down to your kill timers and how many times you know you can vendetta
strange python
hey i have a question , when should i use bote when im playing assa ?
rigid mango
royal lantern
its BiS for m+ right now, and can be use for some fights in raids(azshara is a fight where BotE is better then CLF for sin as an example)
but stuff can change in 8.3
fathom wyvern
is the assa apl for a 90 sec fight still scuffed?
cobalt pelican
what was the problem in the first place
the only thing i know of is if you have font/coral there's no fallback for using with vop minor
but everything else should work fine
vast forum
i don't think apl is very optimized for very short fights
cobalt pelican
in what regard though
like what would you change
play coral around a tb or something maybe i can't think of much
robust gull
So it’s not worth delaying tb if it means getting in a third envenom?
Delaying like 2 seconds
vast forum
i'm talking more like <1 min fights
robust gull
In regards to what @rigid mango said earlier
vast forum
delaying TB is fine if you don't lose casts
if you're confident in your killtimes being very consistent, you can work around it but it's not recommended
rigid mango
Generally you don't delay tb because losing a cast is a greater issue
But playing the spec correctly, you should be able to anticipate what needs to be done when and get clean TB windows
cobalt pelican
fitting a 3rd envenom inside tb is just such a tiny number of damage overall anyway
like if you look at a log and check each tb window envenom is not uncommonly <50% of the nature damage done inside the window
sand notch
Is SSx3 EBx1 at all viable for M+? or just EBx3 all the way
pure moth
I feel like running just 1 eb is prob not worth it for the fok build
shrewd lion
U guys have a suggestion for the best dagger for leveling?
I'm currently level 70
or where to get good daggers (specific dungeons, etc)
cobalt pelican
if you somehow have gold heirloom daggers will be your best bet
rigid mango
@sand notch Yes more than fine
cobalt pelican
if not better to just look through the dungeon journal at your level (shift j) and queue for dungeons with daggers or something
rigid mango
You've got the 3 strongest traits that you need
jolly haven
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rocky spire
quick question because i cant find this info in the guide. What gems should i use for my sockets?
ashen solar
neon tendon
Yes, did that wrong in the 2nd vend window
cobalt pelican
used 2nd vend 10sec before clf was up for no reason, spamming fok in intermission despite playing 2dd, didn't claim coral stacks before boss death
neon tendon
does clf get the vend bonus or is it just for the haste buff?
cobalt pelican
it doesn't get directly effected no but
10% haste and the minor having 100% uptiem during vend is a nice gain
neon tendon
alright, trying to do that next time ty
nimble skiff
Is engineering helm going to be a good ST piece in 8.3?
zinc zodiac
do u guys think that using 3 or 2 heart of darkness will be good in the next raid?
i seems pretty op at least
shy dust
harsh sphinx
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
storm lodge
sorry, i dont know too many other discords - is there a good place for asking questions about raid boss abilities/strats ?
rigid mango
Wow gen is fine
storm lodge
ty!
hidden bridge
On the opener
Did he just get really lucky when he does 1 mut, 1 envenom over and over?
rigid mango
That's the correct way to do it
hidden bridge
Even if no 4 cp
rigid mango
All you need is first one to crit for 4
No.
He's probably at ~ 80-90% crit chance
Hitting for 4 isn't that strange
hidden bridge
So he likely just got 4 cp every time during that sequence
It's not that it's worth to envenom at less than 4 during hero
rigid mango
@light jacinth Did you get 4 CP here fan is asking sir please help
Yes, he did the standard opener
This is a very normal opener
hidden bridge
Any reason coral was delayed?
rigid mango
His log is inflated because of loyal to the end cheesing, if you were wondering.
hidden bridge
Doesn't it not take gcds
rigid mango
He used font?
rigid mango
Bingo.
strange python
hi, have you tested the horrific visions on ptr? what do you think will be the optimal trait setup for 3-5 mobs packs with realtively low healthpools and some 1-2 mill hp "bosses" inbetween?
gonna assume 3x ss, 2x fok and 1 ttk?
vast forum
3x SS obviously
rest is probably a matter of what you can get on your gear
not bad to have an NP for the minibosses
EB is also fine but not mandatory
hidden bridge
Is it worth to sit on toxic blades if I'm low energy to get the nature damage buff for envenom spam
rigid mango
Generally just use TB on CD
vast forum
better to plan ahead and not be low on energy when your TB comes off CD
rigid mango
If you wont lose a cast from delaying it, there's no reason not to. But you should've planned ahead to know this was happening
And not land on low CP/energy with TB coming
hidden bridge
Gotcha
strange python
do you think hidden blades will be a good talent option compared to poison bomb for the visions? since it will always be stacking up inbetween with all the running around
hidden bridge
Is it better to garrote to 5 before rupture or save the cp for an envenom
strange python
garrote, rupture, garrote is your optimal opener i think
strange python
if that's what you mean
light jacinth
we're sitting at like
rigid mango
Thanks bless u nibren 🙏
rigid mango
Oh right yeah. Forgot about that part too
hidden bridge
Nah not opener
Like if I mutilate to 4, and both rupture and garrote can be applied without wasting any ticks
Do I rupture -> garrote
or garrote -> rupture with 5 cp
rigid mango
Garrote -> rupture
strange python
maximize the durations
rigid mango
I honestly expected this pad war to happen earlier
light jacinth
their kills are way sloppyer
hidden bridge
Can you shadowstep mutilate macro
light jacinth
being said we had 11 deaths they had 16
so the dude just stayed alive and got more damage off that
we still killed it way faster
we probably wont try it again
waiting for ahnks was pretty aids
end time doesnt work any more
hidden bridge
Is it worth to have like 1s of energy cap in order to have full energy for toxic blades spam dump
rigid mango
no
You seem to be thinking too much
This spec just like most are dumb easy
Don't overcap, press buttons when you should
light jacinth
pooling stopped being a thing when lucid happened
vast forum
it's still a bit of a thing
light jacinth
barely
rigid mango
light jacinth
i literally never pool
rigid mango
Diff is so small you can barely notice it
vast forum
but it's harder to tell apart good rogues from great ones now 🤷♂️
rigid mango
The APL pools 3 times in 5 min or smth
Pretty sure mystler and koji just said stop thinking and just press ur buttons
as a tldr
light jacinth
its been harder to tell "apart" that sort of thing since like, before wod
hidden bridge
Is pooling just good with bad haste then
light jacinth
id say the last real time you could really tell that stuff was mop when snapshotting was still a thing
vast forum
people think assa is very easy to play cuz of low APM, but the more APM you get as assa the easier it becomes to play
light jacinth
i mean it is easy to play though
fundamentally you press the same 3 buttons and keep bleeds up
rigid mango
I mean, what's hard to play though?
vast forum
i'm not saying it's hard 😛
vast forum
i'm saying that people correlate low APM with difficulty
light jacinth
eh
civic palm
Difficulty in staying awake.
vast forum
i'm pretty sure wow shouldn't be a legion s2m level APM either
some middle-ground is nice
vast forum
poison bomb 2-20% of your damage, enjoy 🙂
civic palm
Shoulders? Reroll.
light jacinth
yeh, that was the only mistake of the class
sub was entirely fine for its 1 time as meta during tos
just braindead cd windows though
EP is the closest thing we've had to hfc for kill times though
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
delet loyal
light jacinth
it'll be funny to see if they nuke loyal going into next tier
cobalt pelican
😺 😺 😺 😺 😺
light jacinth
this shits entirely still useful for prog if they dont
which will trivialize it so much
light jacinth
its an easy fix anyway
no loyal proc in anywhere but EP
or make it so it doesnt stack
hollow cloak
this feeling when all your gear have sockets 🙂
cobalt pelican
wtf my 5loyal m+ team?????
rigid mango
My 3 shaman 5 loyal team
rigid mango
light jacinth
nothing in the game can equate to your entire raiding having 3k secondaries
on each person
cobalt pelican
sometimes they just do you like that
hollow cloak
@light jacinth i have boe cloak 455 with socket
hollow cloak
i paid like 1.2 million
light jacinth
🙅♀️
cobalt pelican
i fear for the day my non-abusing guild starts dropping their loyal as they replace gear
and i'm stuck out here with my radiance shoulders
pls bless me blizard
arctic walrus
Yinzen 
harsh tusk
what are the go to traits for assasination ST mythic raiding? I play outlaw and have 3 aces and 2 deadshot, and understand it well enough but trying out sin more
is there a priority?
rigid mango
dd np loyal bbi ttk
all good traits
You'll see DD and NP frequent gear next patch.
Same for heart of darkness, probably quite good too.
hollow cloak
well next patch u can have 3np:s
so
but i guess still u have to gamble like bligtborne
rigid mango
Yeah well bis is probably gonna be 3 dd 1 swirl np heart or 3 dd 1 swirl 2 np
We'll see
Not for total bis, but probably during the tier
cobalt pelican
i prolly shoulda bought a 455 hole cape sooner tbh
didn't realize they were so cheap
i'm not used to playing on a functional realm
arctic walrus
bigger than me 
rigid mango
frantically logs on to check
arctic walrus
literally logging in mid game
civic palm
lol
rigid mango
120k 
hollow cloak
yea
cobalt pelican
gross
hollow cloak
455 version without socket 805k hmm
cobalt pelican
it's a similar upgrade to goraks for me and i'd pay 500k for goraks in a heartbeat
he he
arctic walrus
this is gonna be the first patch ever I actually have maxed professions lmao
I went with engi/lw
cuz i want to spam mecha for rings
civic palm
o _o lol
hollow cloak
https://gyazo.com/33c80121b81a284f1bc1e124de99acfd expulsoms is funny to farm
hollow cloak
LUL
rigid mango
We far away from sin now lads.
hollow cloak
i have atm like 68
rigid mango
clear dagger
is echoing blades or shrouded suffocation more important in M+?
rigid mango
Shrouded
sly shoal
so if I'm reading the pin correctly it's worth saving my second CLF for my third vendetta on fights shorter than 6 minutes?
Since I wouldn't get a third CLF anyway
rigid mango
That'd be correct
sly shoal
Cool thanks
broken obsidian
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ubqh9KhMPV6mbJemrW5cT2 could someone help me understand why it would choose these azerite traits? Is my crit not valued highly enough because i dont have benthic?
rigid mango
What's shocking about this
broken obsidian
Im just surprised that it didnt choose blightborne infusion
broken obsidian
Oh ok maybe my friend was telling me wrong information then
broken obsidian
im really confused now because i have been trying to play with a shrouded suffocation for raid but now its telling me triple double dose
im sorry to come in here so misinformed ill look through the guides and try to gleam better stuff
rigid mango
SS isn't as good as running standard raid setup
And that standard raid setup doesn't use any SS:
It excels in very short kill timer bosses and/or cleave.
There's not enough of either to warrant using it, realistically.
broken obsidian
maybe im just thinking too simply, but is there a guide that gives more of a "this is your ideal setup" when it comes to azerite? the ravenholdt is good it just tells me what to look for rather than what I want to end up having
broken obsidian
ok thank you for helping :>
rigid mango
storm lodge
with ss and subt the opener is garrote > rupture > garrote right...does this snapshot? worth popping an on use trinket before doing it?
rigid mango
It snapshots the garrote but the damage of it is dynamic
arctic walrus
not a feral again, no snapshots
rigid mango
our bleeds are still dynamic even though they can "snapshot" through ss, subt and NS.
storm lodge
i see
so for the duration of the on use, the bleeds do increased dmg but reduce when the trinket runs out
rigid mango
Bingo
storm lodge
whats the pvp opener when you dont have elaborate planning?
garrote > cheap shot > garrote?
storm lodge
ah will check!
hidden bridge
How's galecallers with coral?
strange python
font+coral only works cause font lasts for 30 seconds
galecaller lasts 10 seconds so theres no point in stacking it with coral
rigid mango
Since galecallers is shit, it's pretty shit.
glacial crypt
HAHA
uneven summit
modest tendon
Probably the 450 one
lunar merlin
what's the optimal usage of font of power?
probably to throw it away and find a new trinket, right?
rigid mango
Yeah just throw it away, it's only bis.
lunar merlin
well, do i pop it after bleeds are up and before vendetta?
lunar merlin
ok
rigid mango
Little bit more complicated if you use coral with it too.
gusty mirage
I guess the only scenario you'd "throw it away" would be m+ and that's assuming your other trinkets are better (I have a 435 font), but I ran font in m+ for a long time until I got a 445 spyglass. It's inconvenient at times to fit in to the flow of a dungeon, but it's still a hell of a lot of damage. For raid it's a no brainer because your tanks should be giving you a pull timer anyway
cobalt pelican
there's probably like 2 humans not playing font in raid
lunar merlin
do we really take poison bomb over CT in m+?
gusty mirage
depends on the dungeon @lunar merlin
lunar merlin
tol dagor in this context
gusty mirage
I'd say it depends on your pull sizes, if your group pulls small for example
heavy haven
can i find 8.3 sims anywhere already?
gusty mirage
CT is great for AoE damage, but it wouldn't hurt to go PB unless you're pushing higher keys that require you to maximize your dmg output if that makes sense. If you're doing anything under a 16-17 you'd be just fine using PB for one less thing to push besides FoK, Rupture, & Evenom
@heavy haven no, ptr is unreliable right now and the sims probably won't be ready until mythic opens up on live
cobalt pelican
the primary things like the new essence/trait and corruption interactions are getting their initial implementations slowly
wouldn't expect sims to be as slow as 8.2 just due to a lot fewer things needing to be added rotationally
probably patch week for preliminary stuff, raid open week/mythic week for weird specifics like trinkets if they're not very simple
(but they seem mostly quite simple)
rigid mango
@lunar merlin ct for everythint but tos/kr/siege
lone junco
@rigid mango what changed to slide back to ct from pb? agi scale, or pull sizes, or having extra cps, running less TTK so you have extra cps
prob the last one. cause if you have 2-3 eb and 2-3 ss, then env is weaker, might as well do the bleed.
rigid mango
pull sizes aren't big enough to warrant ttk -> ct better
yeah
Also the fact that sin's slot in m+ right now is just blasting aoe really
lone junco
was looking at dabbling in WW. and guy ran with a rogue. got doubled on trash. outlaw was like 115k ww 55k. 👀 so yeah
tis the season to be rogue for sure.
i really enjoyed the shoulder dfa sub. just blasting shit.
rigid mango
Yeh sin is just aoe pumping machine now
With 3 eb ss, CT and bote your aoe is really substantial
VoP minor feels really good too
But dunno how good it actually is numbers wise
For bosses it's really good
rich raft
hi guys, i didnt see any rogues chanche in 8.3, anyone have any bluepost or something?
royal lantern
no real changes for rogue
rich raft
ok, so assa still be just fine for raiding?
rigid mango
Bingo.
royal lantern
nothing changes with it, so yeha
rich raft
nice, long vacations so i just wanna make sure i didnt miss anything important hahaha, ty
hollow junco
not sure if the new encounters in new raid cater more to outlaw though
drowsy niche
Hey boys! Do we know if subterfuge gonna come up for the 8.3 ? or Master will still the best one ?
rigid mango
Probably same but subt scales better
And some fights might like SS. Doubt there'll be more than one tho.
drowsy niche
SS ?
hollow junco
ss = shrouded suffocation, azerite trait that buffs garrote's cast while in and for a few seconds coming out of stealth
vestal wren
!abb
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
strange python
Hi New to the Assasssination Spec and feel really underwhelmed compared to outlaw so I guess my question is assassin better compared to outlaw or no?
strange python
ok thanks for the clarification!
muted vortex
Any information on the corruptions and what's looking good for assassination upcoming?
I don't see anything pinned
rigid mango
That'd be because we don't have any info.
muted vortex
No preliminary estimates?
Just trying to stay ahead of the curve with what limited time I've had recently
cobalt pelican
crit daemg good
maybe echoing visions for m+ good
others varying lvls of ok but
it rly just depends what you loot
rigid mango
Depends on what they feel like buffing/nerfing
There's stuff that looks stupid broken, like echoing visions.
odds are crit damage will be king.
Unless there's some flat damage shenanigans.
cobalt pelican
essences really unsure for now, the clf change isn't even on the ptr sim build
nor are any of the new ones that i could see anyway
potent pelican
hey, how many targets for fok over multi?
rigid mango
2 with eb 3~ with nothing 4-5+ with DD.
chrome forum
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vague acorn
Hey, do you play posion bomb or tempest in m+?
rigid mango
pb in kr/tos/siege ct rest
vague acorn
Thanks. Whats The reasoning behind that btw?
rigid mango
Not enough aoe
strange python
Havent played sin in m+, but I'd assume its simply cause of way smaller pulls
rigid mango
Boss centered dungeons
strange python
And siege spotters delete the Packs i guess
vague acorn
Yeah ok makes sense. Thanks guys
jolly haven
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
bright tusk
I'm progging on Azshara, I'm struggling to perform.
I have good damage in the first two phases but eventually it levels out, all the intermissions don't help either.
If someone could take a look at my logs in DM that would be incredibly appreciated
cobalt pelican
where you're dying at in prog is kinda important
like if you're dying at the tail end of p3 it's never going to look pretty
rigid mango
Just link it here if u don't care about who sees it
There's more than enough competent people around
strange python
ay guys, whats the name of the flag for shadowstep? racer flag?
rigid mango
You don't need it
bright tusk
Posting tonights best try here then, I don't mind who sees it
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9hfFav6n4VNR2PBr#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=15&view=timeline
thin night
Do anyone know what essences will be bis for assa in 8.3 ?
bright tusk
My "duties" are, cds on pull, aszhara, venomtongue, on bloodlust, and doing overload console
royal lantern
seems like you have mechanic duty
i mean, if you do stuff like console etc....ofc the people that where not forced too do it will perform better number wise
shut garnet
do u need to grind rep for that flag to be purchaseable?
shut garnet
for what rep? i really am too Pepega to know how to look
sorry, not assa related but ty regardless
drifting cloud
Requires Order of the Cloud Serpent - Revered
cobalt pelican
there's kinda a lot of weird random stuff in this log
like when you pushed to p3 you put bleeds on azshara and the myrm (good), then vendettad lady before she had bleeds, bote'd followed by bleed application
then vend ran its entire course and you fonted afterwards
sand notch
what essences should work on for the patch?
quasi pewter
ur just using ur trinkets wrong completely
cobalt pelican
coral usage is really all over the place in the transition between p2 and p3, you're applying and pulling seemingly randomly
quasi pewter
@bright tusk
rigid mango
bote clf lucid iris strife pp @sand notch
sand notch
bote grind T.T
sand notch
bleh pvp ques
strange python
i think you can still be alliance mercenary and get insta queues that way
shut garnet
assuming he isnt alliance 
bright tusk
@cobalt pelican
Yes I failed a lot with my third time using cds, on lady.
This is my second raid night on Azshara an I've yet to figure out when to apply coral and extract stacks. Suggestions?
cobalt pelican
same as when you checked; looks like you're just overcomplicating it for some reason and trying to juggle between phases
pull once at some point in p1 (hulk, end, whatever), reapply as azshara zones in (or after vend if you're vending immediately), pull during your vend in p3 after font has been used using the normal timings from #tc-updates, reapply asap, pull for your p4 vend w/ lust after font same as above
in the pull it looks like you just got confused and ended up removing your coral from azshara before the p2 -> p3 intermission, then reapplied it and it put font on cd and instead of waiting for font you just got nervous and started pressing random buttons on venomtongue
bright tusk
Yes I will try do corals like that.
Your analysis is correct, previous 18 pulls I was supposed to save cds for the ward add after venomtongue and got asked to do venomtongue in the beginning of p2 so I did screw up a lot there..
sand notch
What are the good pvp azerite traits?
storm lodge
is there a way to sim for 8.3 ?
rigid mango
Nope
jolly haven
Roll Death Knight
storm lodge
lol no...why?
jolly haven
rigid mango
Wrong channel for this
storm lodge
😦 my 435's with overwhelming power X 3 are simming equal to a 445 helm without it... should i hold off on scrapping the 445?
it has gutripper
DD, ttk, gutripper/blood siphon
i was wondering if there was a way to sim accounting for the OP nerf in 8.3
storm lodge
is it very significant?
ah kk
then i should hold off
sadly if i scrap the 445, i'll have just enough residuum to gamble on another 445
so much anxiety 😫
storm lodge
yeah
hasty vale
Do we have any new information for the upcoming patch?
hasty vale
Cool ty.
opaque mist
Just returned after a year, hows sin doing now ?
rigid mango
Good.
opaque mist
Awesome, anything I should look out for by 8.3 ?
shut garnet
catching up on essences
opaque mist
Ahh yea, doing that... Guessing push the rep ones asap ?
shut garnet
well, you should be looking to get blood, clf, lucid, strife, pp, vop and iris
opaque mist
Speaking a different language right now, I'll check some guides for those xD
rigid mango
All the essences essentially, apart from ripple/unbound
shut garnet
blood of the enemy, condensed life force, memory of lucid dreams, conflict and strife, purification protocol, vision of perfection and essence of the focusing iris
:p
just look em up on wowhead yea
pretty straight forward to get
shut garnet
wdym?
opaque mist
Locked behind rep or progress
shut garnet
yes you need to rep grind/do raid/m+/pvp/rbgs
opaque mist
Being away for a year I have to find another guild to get things flowing again
shut garnet
and/or dailies
opaque mist
Is that in Naz only ?
rigid mango
You'll need to do dailies in naz + mechagon
opaque mist
Yea I've been pushing through those for flying
rigid mango
Grind honor from BG's for blood, Grind arena rating + weekly caches for strife, m+ chests for iris, kill raid bosses for CLF, do the mechagon dungeon for Visions
half tartan
strange python
does anyone else have issues with too many keybinds required on assa?
gusty mirage
I feel like I have to use more binds for outlaw
quasi pewter
idk how you can have keybind issues with alt shift ctrl mods
shut pasture
Accidentally alt-f4
gusty mirage
kek
strange python
idk, can't get used to alt mods
rigid mango
I only use shift and I'm fine 
strange python
might just be me, 40 keybinds seems excessive compared to other classes i played
sly shoal
Like 12
tropic ocean
12? 😂
dense axle
Any sims up for ptr?
zenith wren
🔮
vestal wren
you can put ptr=1 in the sim and do an advanced sim.
however there is no guarantee that everything is propperly implemented yet.
you could look at the github commits to see whats in
dense axle
Ooo cool. Thanks fuu
vestal wren
from the "todo" it seems some corruption effects are "not yet implemented"
dense axle
I'm mainly curious if the buff to vision of perf makes it worth getting
vestal wren
also some of the general azerite
not sure if its up to date but vulpera is also missing and the torment of jar trinket
for what its worth you probably would want to customize apl for the new essences/trinkets
arctic walrus
It's something you should have, but it's not something that you will see a meta shift towards to
Like it had uses on zaquul for example, very niche timing required, but otherwise its damage won't be superior
dense axle
Interesting, I also need to farm up conflict and strife for the use as a minor
strange python
please god dont tell me conflict and strife will be the 3rd minor
it was enough pvp for bote
hope its crucible of flame
zenith wren
Idk kev some of the new essence minors look decent
strange python
cool
perfect
even if you use it as a minor you get the corruption reduction
?
zenith wren
Didnt test
covert sedge
C&S was already worth having and used on multiple EP fights by top parsers though
strange python
For sin?
drifting cloud
Yes sin used it on qc and qa
strange python
So on fights where you’ll be fanning for a parse
drifting cloud
Huh?
strange python
That also requires your guild to not send you down to delirium
And fan of knives scales off vers and Crit
brazen blade
Guys, can someone help me to find video/VOD with assa rogue on Zaqul who is doing delirium mechanic?
Full kill video/VOD
wise idol
Howdy. Looking to play rogue in 8.3, is there any raid essences i should aim for beside Lucid rank 3 ?
crude cargo
Hey guys can I get a quick rundown on how to do console overload duty on p4 M Azshara? Pls and ty
latent gazelle
Wow general would be a good places to ask 😉
frozen pecan
Hey guys do you use stealth?
woven summit
No
woven summit
I dont like it
frozen pecan
weird and useless ability
drifting cosmos
cobalt pelican
i use it to spy on people in the bathroom of goldshire inn
frozen pecan
wise idol
Is the engrineering helm good for assassin ? Not sur e what to pick as second profession
rigid mango
Yeah it's good
rigid mango
Same as current one
It's good if you're looking for a transition helm
Guaranteed early piece
wise idol
Yea well if i knew current one i wouldn't have asked 😛
Can't find it on google (I'm a newb)
rigid mango
r word is filtered 😄
wise idol
Yea noticed!
rigid mango
But ye, same as this patch
frozen pecan
wise idol
Well i still don't know same as this patch dude!
dark crag
Dd/ttk, haste or agi proc, OP/crit
wise idol
Cheers!
dire spoke
check profession in your guild and look for the helm
wise idol
guildless atm if not i would've done that 😛
dark crag
With np on all pieces and lack of dd, engi could be a very good alternative
wise idol
Well i already got alchemy, so it's either eng or lw
But guess eng is better then u get more room to buy other pieces
dusty wigeon
2nd boss has best helm until Ra-den right, except if op gets nerfed below Gutripper, in which case that makes the engi helm not really worth getting since its only 2 boss? may aswell go JC / LW
rigid mango
Idk, mecha rings > JC most likely, and there's no reason not to get that helm ASAP for trading etc
dusty wigeon
eh i mean, trading if youre not pushing for ranks giga is not needed
rigid mango
nor is JC
Engi is consistantly decent and you can currently farm out better items than JC has
- engi has other beneficial things
- what if you don't get that helm from 2nd boss
fickle jolt
Trading would still make a bigger difference considering the jc rings will be obsolete once you get a set of mechagon rings, plus your raid lead will appreciate you trading
rigid mango
Jc rings will be dope for m+ and whatnot
shut garnet
that's also a big if they dont nerf mechagon stuff
since it's overtuned but low ilvl on purpose
so it wouldnt be surprising if they just decided to adjust some numbers
rigid mango
Even if they adjust them I still see them being insane
dusty wigeon
dont mecha rings need to have a socket to even be worthy? and since there is 4 - 4 options its also gonna be rng heavy whether you get them
rigid mango
Not when you get them at a high ilvl they wont
Think it's like just over 2 sockets worth of stats at 445 or something
shut garnet
everything is crazy in mechagon
the dagger is great also
crit mast i think it is
i doubt it'll dodge changes
cobalt pelican
it's over ~3 sockets of haste on the haste proc ring
rigid mango
and idk with the overall power creep of this patch
cobalt pelican
only way the jc ring will be usable at all in raid is if a) there's a boss who's ass is permanently unhittable or b) you get some stupid corrupted ring and you have to use it
shut garnet
cant u roll corruption on mecha rings?
dusty wigeon
so the arguement against JC is that you can trade the engi helm, and if you manage to get lucky in mecha and get the rings (assuming it stays untouched) the mecha rings will be better
cobalt pelican
you really don't need to get lucky
like
you might not have them first week just due to key rng but
you'll have them 2nd week or smth if you're playing
it's not like they're ultra mega rare it's like 1/10 on a drop table at the end of a key like any other item
rigid mango
idk ur argument was that u can get better item
but my argument is that you can farm a better one
cobalt pelican
both jc and engi are kinda in the same boat that it's just a cointoss whether it's useful or not
fickle jolt
Farmable content in mechagon vs nonfarmable content in a raid boss, I dunno why you are calling the mecha rings more luck based
cobalt pelican
and at least engi has some out of raid things
rigid mango
idk what kinda flawed logic that is
fickle jolt
Engi shield can be a lifesaver too
rigid mango
Engi brings other shit too but those're whatever
shut garnet
cr is very valuable
cobalt pelican
i'm probably just gonna keep the mats on me to level both and figure it out from there
rigid mango
Dependant on later bosses and usability of the engi rings I might swap
otherwise just stick engi
dusty wigeon
sure, just wanted a second opinion on it. But looks like engi is the way ^^ and keep jc mats on you just incase
sage forum
Is there any good website for 8.3 theorycrafting? I'm considering playing my rogue again, and I've mostly been outlaw, but I switched to Assass to learn it and have really enjoyed it. I'd like to see how they are expected to perform next tier
royal lantern
it will PROBABLY still be the best rogue progression spec for high end raiding
but ye, nobody can see the future, how fights/essences/trinkets/classes will be tuned when mythic comes out etc.....
woven summit
So its natural to presume they wont change much further?
rigid mango
They wont change the specs anything, no.
Whether the raid encounters prefer them or not, that's what the entire question is about.
woven summit
Yeah you got a point about that, it's very boss encounter dependant.
vagrant tapir
"The new soft cap is 80, however, you may keep leveling it past 80 to increase the item level and power of your Azerite Traits."
rigid mango
That's been removed.
vagrant tapir
This seems to imply that theres some form of concordence
Ok
So thats not a thing?
rigid mango
That's been removed.
vagrant tapir
Ok cool
floral shoal
Unbridled Fury will still be our pot in 8.3?
verbal mantle
Yes sir
neat estuary
Should your strongest dagger go in your main hand or does it matter if its in main or offhand ?
shut garnet
have highest ilvl in main hand
neat estuary
Thank you, Also are you guys stacking as much haste as possible ? or is there a capping point ?
rigid mango
Whatever sims best.
shut garnet
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
neat estuary
Alrighty, Thanks all!
tropic ocean
for st sim
torpid mesa
m
wise idol
Just got coral, how many stacks do u get before using it ?
shut garnet
you apply it on pull, after font ofc
and then use(pull it out for crit) it again with your 2nd set of cds
ideally
unless the fight requires you to hold coral until later or whatever
hallow coyote
What Essence is everyone switching to after the CLF nerf
rigid mango
Either staying with CLF or Bote
vast forum
whatever sims highest 🤷♂️
rigid mango
Or one of the new ones 🔮
vast forum
i do think worldvein might be good now tho
rigid mango
Oh yeah if fights allow it WV might be nutty
vast forum
we'll see
so yea
whatever sims highest is always the right answer
unless a fight requires something different
like vop minor on za'qul
grizzled trail
i think CLF will still be best for single target tbh
rigid mango
I think ima wait and see
grizzled trail
will know after a simple sim on patch day 🙂
rigid mango
Especially with CLF nerf, kill timer might actually matter for the two properly.
vast forum
i think WV will be best for ST if stacked
rigid mango
Yeah I don't doubt that.
vast forum
just gotta convince people to run it 🙂
grizzled trail
im sitting look at next tiers azerite right now trying to work out my bis list -_-
rigid mango
Shouldn't be hard if it's stupid good dps
grizzled trail
nothing personal yay
rigid mango
Swirl + carapace + nzoth piece
there u go ez pez
Just a question of 3dd 1 swirl np heart or 3 dd 1 swirl 2np
Is my guess
Esp with OP nerf there's no way anything outsims +10 ilvls on the two last pieces
grizzled trail
true that
rigid mango
and since well, optimally you don't "want" to hard stack NP
grizzled trail
rip gorak tuls 😦
rigid mango
and swirl is really quite good
that'll be bis
No fuck gorak tuls I'm glad it wont be final bis
odds are you might roll for it for prog anyways but atleast it's not total bis.
pseudo hamlet
@rigid mango carapace doesn't drop Azerite with DD trait(or there's something wrong with wowhead)
rigid mango
Maybe it doesn't I just assume it did
regardless you'll be using it
wait wdym they literally have DD/TTK + NP/Heart
Ah no that's the nzoth shoulders 
Yeah it's just TTK NP/heart
So ye just the same thing again, use TTK because it's on a good piece not because it's a BiS trait
tropic ocean
ss also procs way more often than rng gorak
rigid mango
Ofc
Damage parts of traits stack, effects don't. In NP's case the energy part doesn't stack
rigid mango
Bingo.
tropic ocean
Stacking np would probably even be really good for fights like qa in progression if it was on good pieces
rigid mango
You'll get a DD NP help quite early
snow storm
vision of perfection is getting buffed next patch right? is it worth using that with stacked np?
rigid mango
no
The minor is quite literally 0 dps upgrade since you always want to align vend to vanish and the major isn't good enough alone
You get a DD NP helm early, DD/NP + ss/heart chest at vexiona, and SS/NP + TTK/heart shoulders later, at ilgynoth
So I assume we're gonna be rolling for goraks/tent laced anywyas
rigid mango
3ow?
shut garnet
overwhelming
rigid mango
OP?
No
OP gets nerfed and last bosses have +10 ilvl
You'll take any mythic level piece > HC level piece w op
with the nerf, probably.,
uncut burrow
We're projecting (but will see when it launches, obviously) heart being good? Do we know if resistance fights against the triggering corruption value?
rigid mango
Heart'll be good yeah
Dunno how good though, but I suspect ~2nd NP or TTK level good
uncut burrow
Gotcha.
rigid mango
Pure speculation that is.
uncut burrow
Of course
vast forum
i wish vanish wasn't a dps CD
VoP has so much potential to be good in that alternate universe
and fun
storm lodge
the dmg buff from elaborate planning applies to the next finisher as well right - do i want to pool energy before envenoming so i can get mutilates in the env window, or do i try to get a quick second envenom while i have EP ?
quiet parrot
right, if i understand it correct, you pool for tb so you can get as many envenom inside the tb window as possible?
quasi pewter
indeed
sage forum
does a normal envenom override an empowered envenom?
quasi pewter
what is an empowered envenom
sage forum
isn't that an envenom cast from stealth?
rigid mango
huh
quasi pewter
uhm
i guess if you play nightstalker its empowered? but what is there to override
or are you talking about garrote
storm lodge
oh..so i only pool energy before tb, but the rest of the time i use energy as it becomes available ?
sage forum
hmm, nah I guess I'm confusing myself. I saw that the opening rotation has us toxic blade > vanish > envenom. which I thought we did that was to get a stronger envenom dot
rigid mango
Envenom doesn't dot?
quasi pewter
there is no dot component to envenom
rigid mango
Also yeah you can pool around buffs for a very minor gain
quasi pewter
the reason we vanish envenom is for 50% crit with master assassin
rigid mango
But it's nearly not worth while the headache
storm lodge
ah kk...that should make it easier
sage forum
-sigh- I am an idiot. I always thought that envenom buff was a small dot. really it's just increase damage. I need to read better, my apologies
quasi pewter
its a buff on urself not a debuff
and its not increased damage but increased poison application
vast forum
it's not a dmg increase either it's a proc chance increase 😛
quasi pewter
increased damage comes from elaborate planning
storm lodge
is it worth losing a CP to get a 5 cp rupture when its falling off instead of a 4 ?
quasi pewter
also one reason to always mut as fast as possible after envenom so you get the poison application chance on ur mutilates for double dose proccs
storm lodge
oh yeah @quasi pewter that was why i was asking if we wanted to pool a little energy before the envenom
quasi pewter
its not really a significant gain to pool for anything but tb
storm lodge
kk
quasi pewter
envenom buff is so long ur 2 (or 1) mutilates after an envenom are by default inside the envenom buff 99% of the time
even without pooling beforehand
storm lodge
thats true
vast forum
envenom buff is 5-7 sec depending on CP and if it crits when you have ttk
unborn rampart
are our 8.3 bis azerite pieces going to be from m+?
vast forum
no
unborn rampart
since the best "traits" that are on the nya'lotha gear right now ... aren't actually best?
vast forum
best pieces will be the highest ilvl ones (last 2 bosses) and helm from m+
unborn rampart
which helm?
and nya'lotha last two bosses are +10 for azerite? so we have azerite at 445, 460, 475 and 455, 470, 485 from last 2 bosses?
left moth
i have a question regarding m+, ive seen the top assasins using vision of perfection minor, why is this one good? 😄 whats the idea behind it other than having reduced vendetta cd ofc
unborn rampart
more dumb 8.3 question -- which rep should we contract first as sin rogues?
gusty mirage
@left moth the reduced CD & the little bit of extra vers if I had to guess
the idea I'm guessing is to get an extra vendetta window in on bosses for tyrannical
rigid mango
because you get a 2nd vend + bote in there
and it means you dont use vanish right after your first emp garrote
stiff fern
The uldum accord has the dps rep essence.
rigid mango
and save it for 2nd so you just get 2 full "openers" or w/ever
unborn rampart
ty @stiff fern
left moth
ohh, so i actually dont instantly vanish into 2 garrotes after opening garrotes run out? i wait for 2nd vendetta?
sounds like it makes sense 😄
left moth
ah okay, so the opener would be: garrote - garrote - garrote - rupture - vendetta - fan - toxic blade - bote - envenom - fan - envenom...
left moth
alright, thanks alot ❤️
high mantle
any high lvl M+ people here? is sin/double divers folley still a thing? or did the meme die?
arctic walrus
the meme was never alive
high mantle
ive done a couple runs where i saw it work lol
arctic socket
How would that meme even work
rigid mango
Could've worked if it was reaping
and you could perma pull shit onto bosses
but it doesn't work if you're stood not mutilating on bosses
lunar merlin
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
split veldt
do we know if we're using the same essences next patch?
drifting cloud
we dont
drifting cloud
probably not since the nerf is pretty decent
but we dont know which new/old ones we will be using yet
split veldt
crucible of flame seems fun as well
harsh tusk
So I play outlaw for M prog, want to play more sin spec. What is the standard for azerite traits to take? I.e like x2 double dose, etc?
Also, which essences are best for major/minor with sin spec ST
marble hemlock
rigid mango
^
harsh tusk
I have, but it’s siming wayyy below outlaw on ST at same ilvl and feel like I’m missing something here
rigid mango
link the sim
harsh tusk
Can do when I get home from work
true nexus
1 scent of blood or a third ttk for m+?
true nexus
and haste is prety bad right? for m+ @arctic walrus
rigid mango
yes
true nexus
kinda bored of outlaw so im tryn sin for a bit
white wyvern
Wait 3 TTK?
I though we 3x EB and 3x SS?
rigid mango
Better than scent.
true nexus
ill show you what i have
white wyvern
Ok true. His question was answered.
@true nexus If you can manage it 3x SS** and 3x EB is bestest.
rigid mango
Yeah that's what you'd want of what you have
also get yourself fucking bote
Cheapass
true nexus
what about the trinkets
rigid mango
Looks correct
true nexus
i have a 440 azerok that isnt in the sim
true nexus
fair
rigid mango
You've got 6 traits that feed off of mastery
true nexus
what i dont really know is, should i keep the mechagon rings
true nexus
so just go crit mastery rings, no mechagon
rigid mango
yip
naive ridge
is it worth to do leather working on assa for gear in 8.3?
rigid mango
Yes
naive ridge
so the goal is Leather working and engi for helmet?
rigid mango
Ye
open wolf
Anyone have an essences spreadsheet they could share with me?
Saw one posted on reddit a while ago, it helped with tracking essences etc.
rigid mango
bold orchid
hey im new to xpac playing around with my stats for mythic + im sitting on a set of i lvl 436 with 32% crit 19% haste 43%mast 2% vers, with 3 EB 2 SS and 1SoB are these alright stats and traits? any tips or criticism is greatly appreciated.
wanton pond
cobalt pelican
just try and dump a lot of haste, into crit ideally but it depends what gear you have as to what you can swap the haste for
p sure nothing changes, so bote after vend and tb
just instead of being mut rupt mut gar vend tb bote it'd be like, g mut r mut vend tb bote
bold orchid
how low of haste is too low?
cobalt pelican
people play as low as 6-7% but there's not really a 'too low' i don't think, i don't tend to go that low in my gear
but 19% is too much
civic palm
"Too low" would just be you doing very poorly on bosses.
bold orchid
ahh okay so i guess for single target directed fights i should aim for more haste to preform better
drifting cloud
you said for m+ tho, you cant gear swap
civic palm
Bosses are still a smaller amount of damage overall in a dungeon so I wouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate for that.
bold orchid
yea i understand that im just trying to organize my gear to have a raiding set aswell as a m+ set
drifting cloud
for raiding you just sim
bold orchid
okay awesome thanks i appreciate the help
twin meadow
what are the crit and haste foods called?
cobalt pelican
mech-dowel's big mech and baked port tato
prolly typo'd but should be enough to get you to them
storm lodge
in the middle of the fight should vendetta be saved for the second CLF or just use it with the other 2 min cds/trinkets ?