if theyre grey then that does matter a bit xdd
#assassination
shut garnet
quasi pewter
If you have rank 10 on sivarra you have like 115 allstars at this point because of cheese
Same with ashvane
🔫
shut garnet
theyre a good resource to improve and compare yourself to others, but you should never go into a raid with the mindset of "lets parse above 95"
that's just bad for everyone
robust gull
im only really concerned about parses if i apply to a guild, id rather have 97-99 instead of 87-90....or is 87-90 good enough to get you in the door to the higher guilds
shut garnet
thing is, better guilds are very aware of parse cheesing
quasi pewter
What is a higher guild
shut garnet
so they'll ask for mroe than just parses
quasi pewter
Also are those parses hc or mythic
shut garnet
like top 100 i assume he means
shut garnet
they'll ask for combat uis, maybe even videos of kills to see how you're executing mechanics and how well you're playing your class
parses also play a big part, but they'll look into them
they wont just see "ah rank 1 sivara get this guy in here"
quasi pewter
With mythic full purples you easily get into good guilds if u can play the game outside of dps
rigid mango
Eh, I think a lot of guilds will see full purple and ignore you
I mean, if I look at someones logs and you're not doing good logs first 3 there's no reason to keep on looking unless there's a reason, kill timer for example, that you're not logging well
First 3 is purely kill timer + knowing rotation
quasi pewter
I mean yea on the easy bosses that you've done 20 times you're expected to be orange id say
shut garnet
even then, again, parses are very subjective and no respectable guild recruits purely by looking at parse numbers
esp with the way parses work on wcl
rigid mango
Sure, but if you're not atelast orange logging first 3
shut garnet
e.g if you're the first rogue to kill a certain boss you've got a 100 parse
shut garnet
and that 100 will stay there till the end of the tier
rigid mango
Or you have some reason for not doing so
shut garnet
ye, but that depends how long into the tier you're doing that right?
if i asked u to orange log first 3 on assa rn
you'd probably struggle doing it legit
rigid mango
?
shut garnet
because of cheese
shut garnet
and it depends on guild reclears too tbh
rigid mango
Yeah obv
shut garnet
we killed azshara, recleared twice using alts and now no one wants to reclear
FeelsBadMan
rigid mango
But even in boost runs I orange log every time with mediocre logs
I don't think anyone who has been playing the tier all long at a decent~ rating and has double digit kills on first 3 has a reason not to have oranges on them
As sin there's not enough log cheesing done
quasi pewter
Honestly looking at median perf is pretty good
rigid mango
Yeah i mean
If you want rotational skills, first 3/4
If you want strats you look at qa/zaq and if you want multi target sin you look at QC
gusty mirage
I don't even have full blue parses on the first 3 
my benthic rng has been doo doo still haven't gotten sockets in the boots this late in the patch
rigid mango
But like I said, if you have scuffed kill timers no reason to judge the player on the parse but review the log
gusty mirage
kill timers are kinda bad too because I've been pugging mythic
robust gull
ok last question about it...i came into this tier really late, joined a not so great guild (slow kill times obv), and am only 4/8M with 4 kills each boss and 87.9 perf avg by ilvl....do i have 0 chance of even being looked at by a top 200 guild? do i have to wait for 8.3 and get good logs in heroic then look to apply to guilds?
gusty mirage
I mean its worth applying still if that's what you want to do. Wouldn't hurt, especially if the logs show that you know what you're doing
robust gull
ya, i literally just started playing sin last week
gusty mirage
Chances are you won't get into a top 100 guild unless you're really shining and can show that you're a great player. But top 200 shouldn't be hard
quasi pewter
Top 200 is possible for sure
Top 100 kinda doubt someone will take you
200-300
But u should hurry raid is only 3 weeks away
gusty mirage
anything around 200 will likely take you because it's been hard to even get people to show up these days
robust gull
guild stopped raiding for this tier so if went to get mythic logs as sin would be complete pug
gusty mirage
anything between 200-300 will at least probably give you a trial period so the parses shouldn't be an issue
the biggest thing for progression is the knowledge of mechanics, class, and spec
robust gull
what would you say is the lowest rank range where CE is pretty much guaranteed to get in that guild?
robust gull
i think the guilds ive been looking at are around 100 us, 300 world
gusty mirage
oh, yeah if you're looking at top 100 us or 300 world you'll need CE to even be looked at
Top 300 US you can probably get in there w/o it because there are a lot of 7/8 guilds still in the top 300 US
but again that all depends on what you can bring to the guild
it's more than just an achieve & parses
but they def help
robust gull
ok so basically my best odds are getting into a 7/8m guild now, get good logs in heroic next tier, and then look to move to a better guild?
drifting cloud
cobalt pelican
just join a 300-500 guild and play less bad
gusty mirage
^
robust gull
but that wont get ce
drifting cloud
what are you talking about
rigid mango
Just get friends and get invited to their guild out of nowhere
rigid mango
@stuck knoll 
drifting cloud
its going to be 1.5k+
robust gull
ok so a lot of guilds who finish 7/8 this tier have a good chance of ce next tier?
stuck knoll
drifting cloud
or maybe slightly less if bfa is truly as dead as everyone says
cobalt pelican
7/8 this tier is like
stuck knoll
The last tier
drifting cloud
but Jaina got farmed
cobalt pelican
wr 1k
stuck knoll
is always the longest by far
cobalt pelican
those are like the 'got my cousin raiding with me tonight fellers' guilds
robust gull
alright well people keep saying numbers i dont know if they are talking world or us numbers
cobalt pelican
nobody uses us numbers
gusty mirage
@cobalt pelican lmfao
cobalt pelican
except us 2-10
rigid mango
Think 7/8 is like 1.2-1.3 now
gusty mirage
7/8 gets you close to top 300 us
robust gull
ok just getting a little confused because i was told 300 is likely to get into and then told 300 i wont even get looked at...ill just apply to places and see what happens 🙂
gusty mirage
just bang it out as 'sin, pad them parses and the world is yours @robust gull
or just reroll DH w/ 2x follies ez
drifting cloud
but yeah if anything you can just convince guilds with your previous raid xp if you have some since you didnt raid this tier
it really does just depend on the guild and on yourself, I mean we recruited a 4/8 hunter when we were on azshara
drifting cloud
yeah thats why I said previous raiding xp, 4/8 is just pug territory thesedays
robust gull
ya
drifting cloud
but I mean if guilds need bodies they wont be super picky
and some people just need a chance to prove themselves
robust gull
thats me 😄
was there something specific that made you want to trial him?
good to know 🙂
shut pasture
@robust gull your current prog is irrelevant there are a lot of guilds bleeding players right now so you have a good chance
even if you dont have a ce right now
green tide
^
real bay
7/8 forever ripperino guild XD
marble hemlock
when people tell you theyll "help" with explosive and then it still looks like this 
marble hemlock
its surprisingly fun though, cause its hard to sustain when you gotta kill 6 explosives back to back 😄
just hate insta-explo spawns and then you tab to explosive and garrote it in your opener
thats a feelsbadman
real bay
you done any m+ with Wiski (saw he got in your guild), been playing with him for 10years.. hope hes doing decent
upbeat pivot
candid jasper
Are there any weak auras for tracking memory of lucid dream procs?
arctic walrus
there probably are or you can just make your own
rigid mango
Don't really see the reason for it
arctic walrus
but it's not something you really need
candid jasper
Just interested to see how much it procs x
white wyvern
You can use logs. If you really want a WA then just use the 8 sec Vers buff it gives to make one.
candid jasper
I was actually more interested in the energy it returns
arctic walrus
when your energy goes up, it procced 🙂
candid jasper
Very clever, thanks 🙂
white wyvern
It's probably possible to do that, but it would be very complicated and doubt anyone has because it would return little to no value for the work.
shrewd iron
When do you use font on second platform on behemoth, right after you kill the puffer fish or wait until you are at boss and got your bleeds up?
quasi pewter
Go to boss do a tb window then font
shrewd iron
Ok thank you @quasi pewter
rigid mango
You essentially always want tb just dropping when you pop font
shrewd iron
Always do a tb window before using font @rigid mango ?
rigid mango
Yeah to have it come up when you want to use it with vend again
quasi pewter
If youre sure you dont lose a font cast yes
rigid mango
Without wasting TB
Unless the fight timer is specifically around your major cd's
You don't want to be wasting TB CD
brazen beacon
Does NP benefit from our mastery?
rigid mango
Yep
brazen beacon
honest epoch
Any theory crafting about raid essences since the nerds and buffs.
quasi pewter
No only feelcraft
shut garnet
do you guys reckon iris will end up being used more next tier over blood if pack size will increase to 12+ mobs
marble hemlock
no
marble hemlock
iris means not being able to cast 4foks
which, esp on big packs, makes iris deal much less dmg than you think it does
we MIGHT play breath major
but thats a big might
shut garnet
i’ll have to look that one up
new essences 
wait would that work with fok
as in, would each individual fok hit be able to proc it?
shut garnet
so if it doesnt see major slot play, it could potentially see 100% in minor
instead of conflict
the effect is really strong damn
drifting cloud
I mean have you seen that void corruption
did 40% of morningwinds dmg in like a 20ml
95k overall 
he was using stamina trinket and stamina pots, its ridic
shut garnet
wtf
rigid mango
Yeah gonna get the hammer
drifting cloud
yeah but even if that gets nerfed x4 its still so good wtf
rigid mango
Odds are they just gut it to be useless
rigid mango
Think it was from 2 days ago
storm lodge
just clarifying the opener -> font at 7 seconds > pre-pot > stealth > mut (X2 if not crit) > rupture > garrote > condensed life force > toxic blade > mut ?
TB before vendetta right ?
storm lodge
ah
drifting cloud
wait im braindead ive been playing so much classic ive scuffed my retail opener
shut garnet
but if you do that just call for wipe
drifting cloud
ive been doing mut mut env
shut garnet
drifting cloud
rigid mango
There's been some argument about env'ing there
It's not strictly bad
Just a bit uhh, jank.
shut garnet
could be good to mut env mut gar rup
storm lodge
do you env for MA ?
shut garnet
idk what impact that has on dps in a sim longterm though
rigid mango
Shouldn't have a big one either way
shut garnet
nah, basically you’re just looking to get 2 4CP mutilates
drifting cloud
im still getting 98s so clearly not that much
shut garnet
in your MA window
rigid mango
Opener really doesn't matter much
shut garnet
but yes when you vanish, then you wanna env mut env
rigid mango
Just about how much value you lose in bleeds but meh
shut garnet
to get 2 env in your MA
rigid mango
I'm too lazy to work out APL stuff and test it
rigid mango
It's for the people I ping on the regular to do my dirty work, yes.
cobalt pelican
whatever the fk you do in the opener barely ends up mattering as long as 3 globals get pressed
untold current
Alot of cleave and multi target in new raid
Any thoughts on subt making a come back?
quasi pewter
Nah unless it gets buffed extremely unlikely to see play
storm lodge
Is low sin dps on queens court common?
I mean it’s the same for me but everyone else seems higher
quasi pewter
Depends if you can multidot
dark crag
Aggressive multidotting is the word
Have 4 bleeds on both targets inbetween cds, dot the 2nd spark
oblique moon
does cloak work to soak zoatroid explosions?
rigid mango
Nope
storm lodge
is there a good guide on sin rogue and boss specific tactics? seems like i do well on fights where we lust at the beginning, but not sure about when to use font, vendetta, CLF on fights like ashvane and zaqul
my opener feels clunky on those fights, and im not sure if i should just do my regular rotation on ashvane before her shield burst..and save everything for the burst
royal lantern
ashvane is tricky because it deepens on your groups dps, if you can push her fast enough too execute range without cd`s, or if you need some cds too break the shield in time etc....
storm lodge
lets say no one is overgeared and we're still progressing on mythic where the dps is borderline
what should i do in that case?
marble hemlock
whatever the strat suggests
drifting cloud
what I did atleast was just pretend the boss fights starts when she has like 5mil on bubble to channel font
marble hemlock
ashvane is about pushing the boss into the nuke-phase before a certain wave of new orbs have to be soaked
drifting cloud
before that just not use any cds
marble hemlock
you can extend that timewindow a bit by kiting the boss, but ultimately you wanna phase the boss before 3rd wave the first time, and 4th wave the 2nd time
then its just a matter of what your dps looks like. do you push way sooner then that? then delay your CDs into nuke phase. are you struggling with meeting that dps check? ask people to use CDs in shieldphase instead of nuke-phase
dire spoke
We had people, also healers, use mechagon trinket (beam) on p2. Then you need to figure out who holds CDs (generally boomkin) and when they align with your BL/HERO
next kindle
In Raid (Single-target) Do you ideally want 3x Double Dose? My sims are showing it's the highest, but I see a lot of people using Blackwater Vest
dire spoke
The mastery coming from loyal trait can be more powerful than third DD iirc, it's very individual and just down to numbers
drifting cloud
Do you want it? Sure. Is it on all the best azerite pieces this tier? No its not. Azerite has 3 dps traits. Dont fixate on just one.
strange python
Is it normal that i cant benefit every time yo my elaborate planing ? Maybe ill need more hast ?
arctic walrus
Crit is more impactful in terms of EP uptime. However, yes that's pretty normal
if you want to play around any buff timer, itwould be envenom. but even that you can't sustain 100% of the time
strange python
Ok
Im played outlaw for a long time and im training as assa for the next tier theses days , thr right st opener is garrot > mutilate > toxic blade into envenom > vendetta vanish garot ?
And envenom always at 4cp ?
arctic walrus
no not at all
look in the pins for the opener
and yes you only finisher at 4/5 cp
strange python
Pins ?
strange python
Ok thx , when should i ude exsanguinate or master assasin ? And brw deeper ?
arctic walrus
Go read the icy veins and wowhead guides
dapper bough
Is pooling still a thing ? I do it but i have no idea if that has any significant value or nah (when i'm not in a cd window)
ashen solar
brazen blade
Hello, bois! Who can help with guide of surviving at Zaqul in delirium as assa? Appreciate
verbal mantle
take Leeching Poison
and CoS at 3 stacks of Hysteria
at least thats what i did for the CoS timer
verbal mantle
also depends on the strat you're doing I guess
dark crag
We nuke boss from start with max 1 echo phase. I cloak at around 7 stacks together with the +dmg zone because i got hit by it a few tries before first kill
Vial in delirium once you can profit from it without overheal
I go in delirium with 2 shadows. First kill was just 1, much more relaxed
brazen blade
How much damage over time you got there? Is it useful to spam feint in delirium additional to vial? Can it worth to take defragmentation card which heal myself passively 1k per second and up to 200% depends on missing health? Or losing second DPS trinket not worth?
dark crag
Not worth
cobalt pelican
you don't need to live literally forever
cloak is + a single vial is more than enough
if you're staying till boss dies with 1 split healthstone/a couple vials
dark crag
Yeah, hpot and gs for echo delirium after stacks are high again
1 stack reset with cloak
brazen blade
What is gs? Hs?
dark crag
Yes
brazen blade
High stacks = 5+?
dark crag
7+
cobalt pelican
when you're losing hp faster than you're gaining it and low hp basically
dark crag
I cloak echo delirium at 10
brazen blade
And one of the biggest questions of eternity: do I use mutilate on 3 combopoint? :3
dark crag
Muti at 3 cp
dark crag
No
brazen blade
Or just straight boss?
dark crag
Guildmate changed his brothers macro in the brake before azshara. Uses font and dies, hilarious
brazen blade
nice
strange python
do we already know which essences we will be using next tier? so i can prepare? haven't rly found anything so far
frigid sleet
🔮
zenith wren
Just farm the top ones for this patch 
rapid forum
Just get them all 
shut garnet
when the patch hits, you should have iris, bote, lucid, strife, clf and vop at rank 3 at least
those have been the main ones this patch and i assume a combination of them will also be BiS next patch
modest tendon
PP is getting buffed, the minor might be good
shut garnet
that also^
i mean if you wanna be giga safe just get all of them 
cant go wrong with that
@marble hemlock something worth taking into consideration for the bote vs iris thing might actually be the buff essence, dont you think that'd make up for the 4 FoK if people actually choose to run it next patch?
since it'd buff iris a lot more than bote
rigid mango
Doubt that breaches the gap
Not only does bote already smash on aoe it's also great on st
shut garnet
well, it's a 45% increase and iris works on a "dmg per iris wave" basis
so each subsequent iris hit is 45% stronger
idk
rigid mango
to everyone or just 1 person?
quasi pewter
1 min according to wowhead
harsh harness
Was 2 mins on ptr back then
shut garnet
if it's 1min it's just pointless, all dps majors are 1.5 or 2 mins
so it'll just have to be held
quasi pewter
shut garnet
unless ppl start playing protocol major XD
harsh harness
It also emperors the damage from minor stuff like the breath essence
Which is a nice spike execute dmg wise
shut garnet
that is true also
so maybe we'll see lucid minor along with 2 damage minors rather than passives
e.g vop or c&s
harsh harness
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633119089233100810/662570038393438243/unknown.png someone did actually tested breath as minor on a 2 min fight with spark
rigid mango
Seems as if they're just forcing everyone into iris
And new exec essence
Healers are just running CoF rn iirc
shut garnet
nah the tanks are getting a pretty good essence also
i doubt theyd run the copy one
(in m+)
cobalt pelican
people press envenom very frequently
idk what you mean
envenom is like your 2nd most pressed button
there's no envenom before the opener vendetta
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
and the thing you're hovering is np not vendetta
cobalt pelican
hehe he said pooping
rigid mango
yes he should've
cobalt pelican
it's '''''wrong'''''' but insignificant
rigid mango
^
It's a small dps downgrade but it's also irrelevant if you're overall lucky and doing loyal cheese like this dude
Yes, pins are correct
hard marlin
Whats up guys
rigid mango
Sup
strange python
yo can someone help me out with some bis azerite pieces for assa?
rigid mango
zaq-gorak-blackwater
shut garnet
seems like next tier's titanforging will be rolling echoing void on your gear
just watched morning's stream, that shit is so stupid on assa
rigid mango
If it stays un nerfed yeah.
outer lotus
Believe it's the corruption that deals damage based on your max hp
edgy pawn
Your damaging abilities build the Echoing Void. Each time it builds, Echoing Void has a chance to collapse, dealing 1.50% of your Health as Shadow damage to all nearby enemies every 1 sec until no stacks remain.
storm lodge
so we stack stam 😮 ?
gusty mirage
if it remains unchanged and broken to shit, yes @storm lodge
the max hp pvp trink becomes bis for damage lol
storm lodge
argh...i scrapped it for expulsom
brazen blade
Warrior with offensive rallying cry )))))
storm lodge
theres no way they're not changing this right? seems dumb to make us stack stam
queen panther
stack stamina doesn't happen for DPS, blizzard's tweaked the gear too finely to do so lol
just means get higher ilvl
rigid mango
It's one of those things that blizzard hates
candid anvil
Sorry for question out of the subject, but i need to ask, if I play 3xSS 1xEB 2xTTK in ToS, do I want to have higher crit or higher mast because of stacked SS?
queen panther
DPS can't have extra HP
but Fury Warriors get +15% HP passively
why?
cuz they take more damage
rigid mango
What are u on about
I doubt this stuff doesn't get changed, it's one of those things I feel blizzard hates.
candid anvil
And I should ignore haste as always in m+ right?
rigid mango
Yep
queen panther
yeet
candid anvil
Tywm ❤️
rigid mango
Feel free to not type in spec channels if this is what you produce for the second time today
candid anvil
Aand one last question, with these stats and azerites written above, which trinks would be best? All are 430 without sockets, I just don't have any luck
rigid mango
The ones you have equipped
queen panther
simcraft exists for figuring this out but yeah, equipped are gonna out-perform
rigid mango
There could be some argument for heart instead of coral
Sims with a mediocre aoe apl.
meager spear
Coral has a kind of learning curve to it tho imo
candid anvil
simcraft is shit.. 😄 simcraft says haste is best because only haste i have is 80 from wep
meager spear
At least in mythic plus that is
queen panther
that depends on what you're simming there boyo
candid anvil
dungeon slice for m+
rigid mango
Dslice does blow.
candid anvil
or how do you sim m+? I alrdy asked that question some time ago and ppl told me raidbots are no good
rigid mango
You can try simming different target counts
meager spear
Swimming m+ is kinda difficult, I usually will just join a low key and test shit out
queen panther
i wanna say Hectic Add Cleave would be a decent sim choice but probably not the best for looking at your M+ potential
candid anvil
So patchwerk on 4 bosses should be viable?
marble hemlock
doubt echoing void can even roll on items other than the weapon from raid
that would be the easiest fix imo
well, right now it can roll on a few slots
but it shouldnt :p
imo
outer lotus
I like that all the corruption effects are avaialble for every spec right now. Makes it so you dont have to wear a strength weapon as outlaw or that some specs have vastly stronger corruption weapons than others
brazen blade
@queen panther why you said fury takes more damage?
rigid mango
Not a conversation for this channel.
brazen blade
Got it
queen panther
enrage
gusty mirage
@candid anvil coral is great for tyran weeks, non tyran you'd probably want to go with the resonating heart
can't wait to use my s3 traits for a month+ until I get lucky rolls from the azerite vendor to do m+ with new azerite pieces
errant steppe
Is it worth playing assassination without the bis azerite? I have always played assass rogue but just dusted it off after a long time and I have decent outlaw traits. Would have a lot of learning to do on that spec.
rigid mango
For m+? Yeah it's still fine and still good fun
errant steppe
I will work on getting gear for it I am a brew main and looking to push next season and never seem to find rogues so may be easier to find groups and have more fun next season and have been really torn on specs I like assass a lot but may mess with learning outlaw too just Incase thank you 🙂
rigid mango
Outlaw is less trait dependant than sin is
So if that's one of your deciding factor that might weigh your decision quite the amount.
errant steppe
I have 2x sf and 1x EB I may work on learning outlaw while I work on assass traits as well. I might not even want to play it after I get the hang of outlaw tbh.
candid anvil
i believe coral in m+ is good even if you just press it on cooldown without thinking about next pulls
read on reddit that some ppl just macro it with every spell 😄
quasi pewter
vast forum
macroing it to every spell would consume it after 20 sec and that's shit
don't read reddit if you wanna become good at wow
candid anvil
not like i use it like that, just used it as an argument lulz
btw, how much energy do i get from 5combo point rupture on target that dies immediately? is it worth?
modest tendon
Rupture is good only if you can get the full duration
candid anvil
i guess there are lots of situations that it's worth if its full bar wow, I will start testing it a little more
ie if you are on 2 targets and one is dying and second alrdy has rupture i would say its more worth get full bar from the dying one and do mutilates and envenom than just envenoming the one that will be alive and then pooling because of no haste
cobalt pelican
there's not really that many situations getting energy refunded is worth it when you account for the cost of the combo points
to get back to 5 you'll spend nearly an entire energy bar anyway, like yoppa said it's basically only worth it if the new energy is more valuable than the old energy (vend tb whatever)
candid anvil
naah from full bar you can do 5 combo envenom and even have some energy left if you have good crit (like you should in m+)
like, 2 mutilates are often enough to get 4-5
cobalt pelican
it's still not worth it really
you're exchanging envenom damage, buff and the combo points for energy
lowcp ruptures can be kinda worth sometimes but even that's really like.. not that common
candid anvil
I guess it highly depends on azerite gears, with ttks you are probably right..
traits*
and on situations, damn I can think of so many situations it could be worth doing, idk why I see so much potential in it lulz
noble pilot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tawny shell
Is there any information on new raid trinkets next tier yet?
rigid mango
They seem very bad.
keen wedge
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
modest granite
are they nerfing clf minor also? I cant remember
rigid mango
Yep
worn cloak
i think we will see some more tuning patches for essences after patch too
modest granite
thx
cobalt pelican
the major just spits the minor at things
so
heroic week tuning is likely to just to be centered around distinct class outliers
wouldn't expect much essence tuning besides mayb the new ones
modest granite
i wonder if they nerf coral
rigid mango
I'd rather hope they just buff new raid trinks
bold orchid
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
fleet whale
are the Raden trinkets bad? Those were the two trinkets that i thought might be decent
rigid mango
All of them are bad
Numbers wise from what I've seen/heard they're all really mediocre at best.
fleet whale
I really don't want to be stuck with coral/font for a whole another tier. Or at the very least i would rather replace one of them
fleet whale
any news on the new essences and how they look
rigid mango
Execute one looks good
We're using one for the corr ressistance 99%
Aslong as it's not redundant
fleet whale
Also it looks like we'll be able to get the 3rd minor slot quickly
latent gazelle
with a boost to ilvl. M+ tirnkets may at the very least pull up to par with coral/font
i hope atleast. not a fan of double on use myself
rigid mango
No, they don't.
I've done the sims, when I said they don't catch up I accounted for next tier ilvl
Still 1k+ dps loss against vanilla mythic font coral 😄
This tiers trinkets were ridiculously good and m+ ones are bad
fleet whale
Remember the days when Galecaller's and Plumage were good
civic palm
no
pearl pagoda
are azharas dmg gloves decent in m+?
rigid mango
royal lantern
sooo...for how long are we gonna use coral+font then 
rigid mango
Until next expac is my wild guess, aint got new trinket sims tho
Depends on what degree of shit they are
queen panther
expect similar crap like the gear from Shrine raid
cuz i mean just look at everything void related we could equip this xpac... it's all double-edged swords
royal lantern
i would love the mastery shrine trinket tbh(idk the name anymore)
lurkers gift, ye
i gues if they are really hard underperforming they either gonna just %buff them or nerf the EP trinkets too make them unusable 
balmy knoll
Anyone care to give a tl;dr on wether i need to bother with outlul for ~top 100 raiding next patch
rigid mango
Probably not.
balmy knoll
Thanks :)
marble hemlock
There might be like 2 fights where Outlaw could potentially be pretty good
Remains to be seen how exactly the strategies on myth shape up
drifting cloud
is carapace one of the 2?
rigid mango
Carapace looks like outlaw potential
rigid mango
Yeh unless hivemind gets buffs from my understanding it's free loot anyways
Carapace does look like it favours windowed aoe
marble hemlock
yeah, essentially depends on what the spawntimers are gonna be in the final version
granite rampart
new raid trinkets look like an option
fleet whale
There's more options for trinkets in M+ in general. Even if coral is "BiS" you don't necessarily have to use it on every M+ run.
hard hedge
Sorry if this is available somewhere else but I can't seem to find anything about it...
During Toxic Blade uptime is it still worth casting rupture over the empowered envenom?
Also during Toxic blade and/or vendetta should I still be cleaving garrote/rupture onto a 2nd target, or do I just want to mash the priority target during that time?
I presume the ideal is to manage your rotation to prevent those overlaps..but still learning that!
arctic walrus
Sims have shown that it's a minor gain to refresh bleeds 2 seconds pre-pandemic if they will fall of during tb
but again, you have to not delay tb long enough to where you'll end up missing a cast
in terms of gar/rup during vendetta it's pretty minor, although during tb yes you should avoid doing that
exotic rose
does manouverability remove roots?
hard hedge
@arctic walrus thanks for that - think not refreshing pre-pandemic is where I've been going wrong in terms of stabilising the rotation a bit
was constantly getting the need to refresh at pandemic or immediately refresh after dropping before
shut garnet
just make sure to look at your tb cooldown, ideally whilst tb is on a 3-4s cd thats when you wanna be at 4/5CP and pooling to get 110-120energy
preferably, also with your bleeds refreshed
that way you can get ~3 envenoms in your tb window
uneven summit
so.. just returned to the game after some break.. Assa in m+ 3x EB, 2x SS, 1x SoB.. crit/versa.. what talents, what essences?
tropic ocean
@uneven summit bote major lucid minor vision/c&s minor
talents: 2212221/3 (depending on key)
storm lodge
for pvp is triple shrouded suffocation the recommended trait?
rigid mango
Nah, one ss one np and 3 ttk
rigid mango
Believe it got hit with nerfs or smth
storm lodge
ah kk ty!
uneven summit
@shut garnet its the ones i got, but what are the optimals?
shut garnet
3ss 3echoing is very very good for most dungeons
but as long as you have 3ss, 1/2 eb is fine
you can fill the other spots with 1ttk/1bbi/1np
oooor you can run 3eb 2ss with a lot of crit vers
but if you run 3ss build get 40% crit and get a lot of mastery after
subtle tundra
its almost next patch and i still dont have all bis azerites, i love assa
i cant play 3ss 3 eb
cause i dont have them
latent gazelle
I switch between pp, flame, VoP depending on key/affix
Pp for a little more aoe/meter padding, flame and VoP for single target/prio
rigid mango
It's a very big gain
rigid mango
l-----------------------------------l this big
shut pasture
tepid fractal
but you get to play stupid nelf instead
rigid mango
Not so stupid when it looks better and is better :^)
tepid fractal
imagine unironically playing as ally in pve horde oriented game
shut pasture
I play both
Also why does bloodmallet put nelfs
Below everyone else
Does it not count SS
tepid fractal
passives
rigid mango
With meld on bosses
Because you can't restealth
On packs you meld > stealth > garrote x3
And get full SS + subt value
cobalt pelican
if all you do is m+ nelf is pretty much a nobrainer
it has a ton of uses, in an ideal world it's just 3 more shrouded garrotes but if you're forced to do stuff like shrine bridge skip followed by the boss pretty quickly afterwards you don';t have to burn vanish and still have it for the boss
lots of mechanics dodgable/resettable/buggable
cobalt pelican
it's a small dps loss for a big utility/flexibility upgrade, but a discussion for elsewhere
nimble skiff
So what's this with the OP corruption on the PTR for m+?
rigid mango
It's uhh, op
shut garnet
it pretty much gives you tol dagor cannon dmg every dungeon
little forge
Which is the OP one?
little forge
Ah does aoe damage each second when it procs
gusty mirage
@shut garnet it also pulls stuff through the wall in TD like the cannons too so that's a great analogy 
gusty mirage
yeah if you're close to the infamous wall near the first cannon it'll pull through that wall
alpine dirge
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
shut pasture
huh
tropic ocean
u asked about nelf for m+ no?
shut garnet
also big gain when tank decides to chain pull
and you’re like wow nice
having 2 vanishes is mighty useful given how important stealth is for assa
royal lantern
ye but the problem with nelf is litearly
you play alliance
and you wont really pug high keys on alliance side
rigid mango
Seems sin related.
royal lantern
you will either do it with a team(where the tank will play around you/let you stealth for big stuff)
i mean, nelf shadowmeld for m+ stealth is sin related in that context
cosmic flax
is it worth keeping up garrote and using it outside of stealth during normal rotation? Didnt mention it in the guide that I could see?
arctic walrus
single target? yes. aoe, no not unless it's empowered with subterfuge
cosmic flax
ah cool, thanks!
cosmic flax
every time I port into or out of a dungeon my main hand poison disappears, any idea what would cause that?
lean veldt
quick question on mythic Beh... for the piercing barb, can you vanish that?
or do you need to cloak it.
cobalt pelican
if you vanish it immediately shoots i think
didn't try it after 1st week cause it was the only week it lined up
alpine dirge
Hey what bout last talent row for m+? Hidden or tempest? Or maybe stick to the p bomb?
rigid mango
p bomb for tyr tos/kr/siege, ct for rest
alpine dirge
Thank You
modest tendon
so your running Vop minor in m+ so your bote and vendetta sync, trash pack comes along and you use your bote combo (ggg-bote-fok spam) vendetta is now desynced from bote, how do you avoid this? Vendetta anything asap to resync it? Use it along side your bote aoe combo?
modest tendon
use it at the start of a pull then?
shut garnet
well, just before bote i guess?
modest tendon
makes sense
shut garnet
so apply your bleeds first
modest tendon
so before you envenom/CT
shut garnet
well, opener is in the pins
so for the CT opener, youd vendetta before bote
actually for both LUL
and carry it on
but preferably one of the garroted targets should be the thing you’re gonna vendetta
strange python
has someone done the math for PTR azerite yet? are we gonna have to use residuum pieces in all 3 slots for m+ or is the new raid trait decent?
rigid mango
Since the last two bosses drop 2 azerite pieces and they're 10 ilvls higher than any other piece, they're BiS by default
Thanks to their traits not being awful
strange python
so we'll end up with something like 2x SS, 2x heart of darkness(or 1x NP), 1x TTK and 1x EB?
shut garnet
theres dd on the pieces too
strange python
only 1 and it'd be instead of ttk
cobalt pelican
are you asking about m+
strange python
ya
cobalt pelican
it'll pretty much all be dust gear, only exception being maybe the ss+heartofdarkness pieces if you only need a single eb
like the uh
chest from carapace longterm might be p good
and then the lower ilvl mid raid pieces might b ok, don't see any reason they wouldn't be, secondary stat value in m+ is really high
shut garnet
do last 2 give any ttk/ss pieces?
cobalt pelican
the nzoth shoulders are like.. ttk dd outer and raid/np inner
shut garnet
guess we’ll see how valuable np is next tier
if vop minor and high mastery will still be a thing then its not unlikely to be bis
well, it WILL be bis because of ilvl
cobalt pelican
i imagine something like carapce chest/ilgynoth shoulder/fluid machiniations is a pretty good setup honestly
it'd just end up being 3ss1eb2raidtrait or 1raidtrait 1np
shut garnet
no ttks 
shut garnet
cobalt pelican
i think in the end people are still gonna shoot for dust pieces just for the 3eb but like
at least short term when you can't get all the gear under the sun you want
playing something like the above is a good middle ground
shut garnet
this spec is doomed anyways u’ll get the gear to play it at the end of the tier due to dust req + raid prog
unless u roll super lucky
best pieces at last 2 bosses again what a S U R P R I S E
rigid mango
Just seems as if SS is gonna be good next tier again
shut garnet
i dont see why not tbh
shut garnet
i hope CT stays
cobalt pelican
don't see any reason the raid gear isn't actually good after you get an eb piece
we don't really hate any secondary stat and secondaries scale up really really well
like haste maybe but it's not enough haste that you're like 'ah i'm dying help me'
strange python
yeah 3x SS, 2x raid trait and 1x EB sounds pretty nice tbh
rigid mango
I doubt raid trait outvalues ttk/eb
since it has haste
and it's just overall not as good as EB for example
strange python
how much secondary stats does it give at 490 ilvl? like 400 total?
cobalt pelican
300ish
rigid mango
Depends on pull sizes
cobalt pelican
i think i'd always take 350 secondaries over a ttk
but eb will probably still be most overall by a long shot so eh
rigid mango
For m+ it's essentially 260 though
cobalt pelican
not entirely like
haste still has some uses
it's not like it's a dead stat all dungeon
rigid mango
rigid mango
I don't see the reason to pick that shit over eb/ss
rigid mango
They're garbage iirc
cobalt pelican
it's on the same ring as np
on every single piece
like every piece is np/raid trait inner
cobalt pelican
80k absorb really isn't alot
rigid mango
3 of them have np inner
cobalt pelican
good luck not taking damage and praying
is it all the end ones?
those are the ones i mainly looked at
cobalt pelican
ah yeah maut has dd inner
shut garnet
loyal
rigid mango
maut ilgynoth vexiona dont have np inner
cobalt pelican
i gotta figure out the fuck i'm doing with my coins
like
this tier i didn't coin loyal gear
or coral
because i was like it's fine smileyface
they suck
rigid mango
raden carapace nzoth do
It's gonna be interesting to see what transition pieces are like
if heart is good you wont need to roll any m+ gear from start to finish of tier, p much
if it's you might need shit like cepha/spymaster
cobalt pelican
i'm p sure it'll be good
only problem with it is how it like
fixes your traits in spots
like you would NEED an eb helm or something
rigid mango
idk I think it beats 2nd np and ttk maybe but
cobalt pelican
instead of just having a mishmash of garbaeg
cobalt pelican
mayb
i don't do enough m+ to care
so i'll still gamble on useful raid shit even if i can replace it in the raid eventually
like my guild isn't gonna be on last 2 mythic for a long ass time probably so
rigid mango
I mean yeah I'll optimise for raid until tier is done
cobalt pelican
if i accidentally get an m+ set
rigid mango
idgaf about m+ until then
cobalt pelican
hel ye
random furnace
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
civic hatch
not sure if this is still the case, but is it important to clip eloaborate planning and/or envenom to get the most out of it with a final envenom or better to pool energy
arctic walrus
Play around envenom. If you have a current one rolling, sit on 4/5 cp and when it’s about to drop reapply
tacit pebble
rigid mango
Yeah, everything I said above was knowing that fact.
shut garnet
it’ll probably still be the go to raid trait though given how valuable haste is
actually i should look at the nerfs before i say that 
rigid mango
PPM isn't hasted.
arctic walrus
Even then, sure op was for lack of a better term op, the other 3rd row traits are still complete ass compared to it
bright tusk
when I look at top sin rogues on Azshara I can see that they use razor coral quite frequently, in general 8 casts, is there a way to see amount of stacks they have when they use them? (math is hard)
civic palm
Will see how much it is finally brought in line, but for people that still want haste I don't see it being beat.
Azshara has a bunch of one-time adds to murder.
bright tusk
thanks!
Top rogue on "damage to bosses" on Azshara used it at 4 stacks, 1 stack, 15 stacks 8 and 4 stacks in that order, kinda weird to activate it on 1 stack? Guess not but meh
nvm, the mob probably died
civic palm
Yarrr.
bright tusk
I'm dumb
civic palm
Also, people aren't perfect, so errors still do happen.
cobalt pelican
you can plot it against casts if you really wanted to know when they're applying and pulling but it should be obvious if you know the fight
civic palm
Yeah it's just knowing that it's being used on the current thing being murdered.
or whether people are being weird.
and people aren't being weird.
tropic ocean
i usually extract for hulk, reapply, extract when adds are stacked, reapply azshara extract for 1st add reapply azshara
Extract with vendetta on azshara
bright tusk
Yes of course, tomorrow night is my first night progressing on Azshara and I'm trying to see what people do in general to max their total damge on Azshara
shut garnet
grave trail
just dps that bitch hard when she spawns first phase dps dosnt matter
tropic ocean
Can adjust depending on add dmg
(E.g. reducing overall but inc add dmg, like saving coral for 2nd add)
grave trail
skipping mechanics + adds does
tropic ocean
cant agree with first phase dps doesnt matter
grave trail
at this point of the patch if ppl know what they're doing u should be over killing first phase
cobalt pelican
tbh i'd look at a few logs rather than just nibrens
cause it looks like he doesn't even need to hit a sister at all
tropic ocean
@grave trail they just start progress
grave trail
yeah and first phase is no different than heroic
tropic ocean
err trolling?
grave trail
not really? a line in the middle of room? oh wow mekunikz
tropic ocean
skipping hulk? 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
tropic ocean
you got a lot to learn on the fight
shut garnet
the laser
cobalt pelican
pls children love one another
bright tusk
I'm joining a guild that's been progressing a while and I'm desperate to not screw up is all, they've got a couple hundred wipes already I think.
I've sorted the logs so focus on players with "top damage on boss" on her so I avoid logs with add padding as I've been told to get my best gear for single target
cobalt pelican
yeah, that's fair
grave trail
most ppl dont on prog
cobalt pelican
but for example the top 'boss damage' log is a person who has no duty to kill a sister in all of p3
so look through a few at least
civic palm
Yeah your priority for targeting will entirely depend on where your DPS will be needed.
tropic ocean
probably better off looking at progression logs from top players compared to 50th farm kill
cobalt pelican
generally coral will always look something like 1 use p1, 1 use p2 with vend, 1 use p3 for a sister, 1 use p4 with vend and once before the boss dies
which sister you pull coral for kinda just depends on what your raid are doing
civic palm
and unless you've a plan for that going on you should follow "normal" logic.
bright tusk
Yes I've look through a couple now and I had a 1 on 1 with my raidleader where we went over shit in-game and a spreadsheet etc so I'll try apply what I can from the logs etc and do my best 🙂
grave trail
Toxi i would worry about when to use BotE soaking, dropping stacks and doing your order or arcane buurst
cobalt pelican
goodluck 😺
tropic ocean
Most top guilds just stack boss myrmidon on azshara using cds on adds instead of adds
grave trail
melee queen azshara dont have much of a job its easy fight for melee
civic palm
Again, depends on the rest of your raid, but that's what you would like as melee, no running around.
bright tusk
yeah I realized, don't have to care about a lot of mechanics as long as tanks have good placement etc so that's always good.
Thanks for advice and help
grave trail
depends how they do sirens
grave trail
yeah RL should be calling all the prio targets when to kill mirmidon when to kill siren all that
shut garnet
usually theyre popped on first hulk, azshara, first lady, etc
but again, depends on raid leader, maybe he wants you to pop on different stuff
grave trail
and for arcane burst you should have a WA thats has the order
shut garnet
on progression
grave trail
for dispels
if you're conident you can use your cloak to potentially skip a burst i would recommend doing it before the decrees one
that one can sometimes be tight
bright tusk
Who gets targeted by arcane burst?
grave trail
to get to ur spot depends how good people are on dispels
tropic ocean
random
shut garnet
random 3 players
bright tusk
nvm
grave trail
and it targets u, u skip
shut garnet
or 4 or 5 or 6 depending on how well u dispel XDDD
tawdry basalt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
robust gull
does the arcane burst not go out at all or it goes on someone else
robust gull
is cloak needed elsewhere in the fight?
grave trail
but again I only do it on the arcane burst before decrees cause sometimes it gets messy and the last person dosnt make it on time and not really? oh yeah
but it should be up
for console
if u use before decree
robust gull
also ausgelebt ive wondered how to look for progression logs from top players...i feel like maybe the answer is obvious but i can only think of how to find kill logs
robust gull
ah ok that makes sense
grave trail
I highly suggest your guild uses the hyperion strat or everyone to watch that video
robust gull
So, trash in m+, we refresh garrote and rupture? or just rupture?
rigid mango
Empowered garrotes or ruptures
rigid mango
You open with 3 garrotes from stealth and 1 rupture
After that you slowly start replacing the garrotes with ruptures
and keep your energy flowing that way
robust gull
ok, i was reading guide on wowhead, just a litlte confusing
seemed to say keep garrote up and refresh, maybe i should just know it means empowered
rigid mango
You keep garrote up in 1-2 t
shut garnet
well you cant really keep the empowered ones up, idk like
you can vanish to reapply i guess
but i dont think you ever really
do that
because shit dies
robust gull
so for 3 targets, you would start with garrote on all 3, and then get up ruptures on all 3, then continue with single target rotation on one mob, continuing to refresh ruptures on the others
only reapplying garrote again to the other two if you vanish
gusty mirage
@rigid mango we don't deserve you 
shut garnet
if you think they’ll live another full duration garrote
you should vanish and x3 garrote again as well
strange python
445 spyglass or 430 font?
shut garnet
font kinda sucks in m+, id say spyglass
rigid mango
@gusty mirage
gusty mirage
sim it would probably be the best answer, unless you mean m+ then the crit goes a long way so I'd say spyglass. You can make font less clunky in m+ if you channel it while the trash before the boss is about to die
strange python
445 coral raid use
shut garnet
ya coral spyglass is solid
strange python
thx sims say font but by a small amount i was thinking the chance for misuse in reality would probably make spyglass better long term
gusty mirage
oh if it's a small amount, def go with the passive spyglass then 🙂
latent gazelle
with sin already needing to stealth before pulls. adding font into that seems like to much trouble.
gusty mirage
@latent gazelle yeah that's why I never used my font :p stuck with 455 dice/430 coral w/ socket
latent gazelle
i apologize because this isnt sin related, but we have a BM hunter who uses font in M+. tank gives him a 5 sec timer before bosses to use it. he pumps till it falls off then falls behind me (sin).
yeah sucks M+ trinkets went from better then raid trinkets (8.1) to crap
gusty mirage
don't worry, 8.3 is going to be worse for 'sin rogues with needing the vendor to get our azerite pieces 🙂
rigid mango
Tbf, did now anyways
latent gazelle
thats what im afraid of. honestly hope i dont have to go back to EP to farm trinkets in 8.3 only have heroic coral/Font atm. never got a mythic coral to drop and i was away from game when guild killed azshara.
rigid mango
Just that now we wont need to spend residuum for raiding bis, atleast not a lot.
latent gazelle
i need to hit the ptr to see what all the sin traits are.
prolly still be shooting for Goruk shoulders tho
anyone know if the nerf to Overwhelming power will make something else the go to oris it a wait n see kind of thing?
shut garnet
i assume ppl tested the shit out on ptr
rare pond
What do y'all do during p3 on m azshara when trying to keep dots up on like, 3 targets? I can't seem to find enough time to fit in toxic blade when something's falling off or I have to LoS the add
shut garnet
uuuh i dont know what giga padding strat that is but
if youre missing tb windows to multidot then probablyyyy multidot a bit less
try keeping bleeds up on 2 targets consistently rather than all 3 perhaps?
or just use dots when tb is on cd
rare pond
fair enough
robust gull
what percent of your tb windows do you get 3 envenoms in?
like is it closer to 95% or 70%
tame tangle
i had a big problem fitting 3 in , until i realized i was only going into tb with full energy and not cp. i know that sounds basic but once i was conscious of that it fixed my tb windows . having to mut right after tb feels like shit but now i feel like the only reason i wouldnt get 3 in is due to a mechanic or something
dark crag
Are there any 8.3 sims yet?
civic palm
Nay.
dark crag
Not even for the azerites?
civic palm
Even if there were I probably would not follow them as things tend to change before Mythic week.
raw lotus
Is there anywhere posted which Corrupted stats we are going to be looking for as assassin ?
arctic walrus
Waiting for everything to finalize and patch to hit before anyone will do the sims
Crit damage and the max hp one seem to be at the forefront from word of mouth however
shut garnet
yes, depending on how many EBs you have
shut garnet
🤔
id say 40% is the point at which you'd wanna stop pumping into crit and stacking mastery
modest tendon
I don’t like that approach, it depends on what gear you have more than anything so it’s individual to the person
Like you might have some really sick 455 socket versa/mastery gear, but 39% crit, should you drop that for some 430 crit piece to get to the magic 40%? Probably not.
I’m being hyperbolic ofc
But i think it depends on what gear you have at your disposal more than anything
shut garnet
ok but that is a very niche scenario
generally that is the correct approach this patch
like, of course it's gonna "depend" on what gear you have but thats the build you should be aiming for ultimately
you cant play with shit you havent got, but you can play to get there
modest tendon
Is there an ‘optimal’ percentage of crit to go for? Why 40% in particular?