think it's only the one.
#assassination
rigid mango
rigid mango
Just means I never rng helm/chest and just buy them for specific price probs
Shouldn't need azerite for raiding so
rigid mango
3/7 for shoulders 2/7 for chest 1/6 helm
shut garnet
and we dont even know what'll be good yet tbf
seli says it might be 3ttk 2eb 1ss again like s1
tropic ocean
unless ss probably big with new affix
shut garnet
from what boss
tropic ocean
Restealths
rigid mango
Can't member
tropic ocean
But yeah def saving tr to buy m+ straight up
rigid mango
Nah think it's not from that one
silent wharf
Tr is getting reset, not sure if you meant you’re saving now
rigid mango
Doubt he did.
verbal mantle
isnt it a gold reward ?
rigid mango
You get 1 silver per residuum iirc.
verbal mantle
great 
rigid mango
Tr/100 = gold u get, aka fuckall 
verbal mantle
tropic ocean
they should not reset tr
but just make us able to cheap buy 450 targeted pieces
and not being able to buy new pieces with old tr
<
silent wharf
So he was saving lol, blizzard detected fun 
cloud iris
hey guys, took a break for like a month or two, i see nobody using TTKx3 prio build for m+, is this not a thing anymore?
brave vector
M+ right now is 3ss 3 eb
rigid mango
Prio doesn't matter as much, you can't full cp fok as often bec of pull sizes so ttk loses value, sin is good for mongo aoe
p much the tldr rn.
cloud iris
aight, tyvm!
gusty mirage
I was watching Morning mess around with Breath of the Dying in PTR keys yesterday and messed around with it a bit myself after, and it's a pretty solid boost in ST damage with the potential to be really really good if you can use it optimally assuming it'll make it to live as is
tropic ocean
@silent wharf nah i dont save i roll every 2 weeks but it just makes no sense
like at least with new gear release should give the ability to just buy bis of old tier
but for sure new content my tactic will be saving for bis pieces, fuck playing for guild
worthy moon
Can we sim dungeon slice for M+?
arctic walrus
nah it's pretty baD
worthy moon
Trying to decide between my 420 socketed haste/crit belt or my 440 haste/mastery belt for M+
Or a 430 crit/mastery which almost certainly seems better
arctic walrus
I would guess the belt
cobalt pelican
nice.
if the 420 is the only socketed and it's not like 150 haste 30 crit i'd probably play that
worthy moon
100 crit 110 haste, yeah pretty sure it's the choice
arctic walrus
the 430 though tbh
drifting cloud
yeah id say all 3 are probably pretty equal but Id use the 430
desert jungle
Hello all, been away from rogue for almost the entire tier now, was wondering if we have an idea to what would be the best essence in 8.3 after the clf nerf
Thank you in advance
civic palm
It speaks O _O
desert jungle
That crystal ball must have been high
civic palm
Nah WV buff is substantial.
quasi pewter
Just get all of them
cobalt pelican
prolly something between clf bote worldvein and wildcard
gusty mirage
a real alpha 'sin rogue doesn't use any essences 
civic palm
It still has the issues of;
People have to use it,
and
You need to be in range,
but those are easy enough to work out.
rigid mango
Depends on boss design probs but ye.
drifting cloud
yeah but dont forget the major actually spawns them, so if people are gonna be running it
makes the minor better by default
or more consistent
civic palm
Ye.
drifting cloud
there was also some bug with it in 8.2, I dont even know what exactly the bug was since wv was only used on like 2 bosses super early prog
cobalt pelican
i don't think there was ever actually a bug
some of the peabrain class discords started circulating there was a bug with the buff applying or something but like
drifting cloud
yeah orgo/azshara, but not super common
cobalt pelican
there was never any note of a fix to support it and i tested it at the time and it functioned fine
cobalt pelican
yeah i suppose so
drifting cloud
but the bug was, the stacks just werent holding
like people standing in the middle of piles of them having 2 stacks or whatever
desert jungle
From what I understood is that there is a bug but sims now account for it. The problem with wv is getting the benefit of stacking
cobalt pelican
not sure on that; the sim is the exact same for worldvein as it was mid tier when i heard a lot about the bug
rigid mango
There's been no update to sims afaik.
cobalt pelican
still sits at ~80% uptime on 4stack with 4 players
i'd kinda believe that there was a visual bug like
desert jungle
Not sure when the fix went in. I believe it was early to mid tier. But I’m not sim guru just going to what I was told by people that should know this topic better that I do
cobalt pelican
pillars appear but the actual placement for their stats isn't the same
but when i tested it everything seemed v normal
desert jungle
Maybe that was always the case
arctic walrus
You can be perfectly stacked and the stacks drop from 4
cobalt pelican
that's how it's intended to work though right, the ones you're benefiting from expire and a new one has to proc to be added to the stack
drifting cloud
I think he means theres more than 4 up, 4 is just the max stacks you can benefit 😛
quick pulsar
hmm, am I reading System shock tooltip right - it requires all conditions to be met: garotte, rupture, wound/deadly AND 5 CP envenom?
drifting cloud
yes
quick pulsar
System shock overrated :\
cobalt pelican
i should do some extra testing
before the patch
so i actually know 100%
90% slow kinda large
and those are all things that should be on your enemy.. always
quick pulsar
yeah, but tbh I rarely need more slow
crippling with Master Poisioner is just good enough for me
well, yeah, but I don't always do 5CP envenom
and sometimes I skip rupture in opener
quick pulsar
cause they die sooner than that
Mind-numbling sounds better
helps against what (atl I personally) have more difficulty against - casty boiz
drifting cloud
and its more about the dmg in your burst window than the slow anyways
tb 5cp env mfd env
quick pulsar
yeah, true
but I've been lately running Vigor
with mfd I guess it would work better
cause guaranteed 5cp
but I got nostalgic for old assa playstyle 😛
cobalt pelican
assuming you're playing bomb most of the time it leaves 2 spots for sysshock/mindnumbing/manoeuvrability
they're pretty easy to swap around
quick pulsar
yeah, I am playing bomb ._.
arctic socket
Bomb you always use
quick pulsar
last pve talent tier is kinda crap
quick pulsar
yeah, I run maneuverability, creeping and mind-numb now
neurotoxin was fun to mess with for a time
but I think it got nerfed since
been a while since I looked at it
popping it on some button mashy dh was pretty satisfying
cobalt pelican
think it used to be 10sec duration 3sec penalty
which was kinda nuts
against some things
cobalt pelican
creeping is kinda ass
i've honestly never seen creeping do damage even when people ignore it completely
quick pulsar
hmm, I should look at my details after next bg
and see if it did shit 😄
meh
from last bg
it did more than system shock 😛
cobalt pelican
not abnormal really
quick pulsar
but it showed up on report like twice maybe
quick pulsar
yeah
I will see next bg how much it does
cause I've no clue who did I kill on this one
maybe it was some dh
nah, it was some combat rogue
strange python
Hello guys i have 0 Benthic gear are my logs for that gear ok? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/blackrock/zyrika#difficulty=4
harsh sphinx
quick pulsar
hmm, what do you ppl do with all the marks of honor?
harsh sphinx
not ok man. check the pins for the opener
arctic walrus
buy seals, buy transmog, buy blood ranks
tropic ocean
@strange python why sprint? u should already be close to boss as sin when fight starts, or for stuff like orgozoa just shadowstep, and as rav said, opener complete mess dont cast guardian during vendetta
and also vendetta > vanish not vanish > vendetta
quick pulsar
yeah, vendetta breaks stealth now
civic palm
So long there isn't a wasted GCD ... whatever.
arctic walrus
it costs 25 marks to buy blood of the enemy ranks
but you'll have plenty extra marks if you grind blood anyway
pallid jay
I'm 414 rn should I be spending residiuum or wait until 8.3 to use it?
drifting cloud
8.3 resets residiuum
sly shoal
Does 8.3 reset residuum or season 4?
acoustic crow
How does EB work? It says first 5 crits, does this reset on combat?
rigid mango
First 5 per fok
sacred hatch
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fervent timber
Im a bit torn on my gear, Raidbots says more dps if i use Gear that has worse stats but higher ilvl.. Should i just replace my Gear with Good stats and sockets for higher ilvl?
arctic walrus
I mean, if the sim is telling you you'll be doing more damage...why not?
fervent timber
because it also says that if i only replace one piece its almost a 1k dps increase
With the same piece loosing 3k
drifting cloud
can you just link the sim instead of describing it
fervent timber
fervent timber
Eb is not good for single targetr tho
fervent timber
Aka so dont do anything
arctic walrus
idk
drifting cloud
well first 3 bosses on mythic drop way better than your current azerite
arctic walrus
are these your pieces rn?
drifting cloud
also get lucid3 lol
fervent timber
After having 6 chars at 440 ilvl Doing nazjatar rep again is hella annoying
fervent timber
Still
arctic walrus
10 minutes a day for <20 days for like 1k dps 
acoustic crow
Is there any info on how strong the new essences are for 8.3
civic palm
There won't be until we see whether or not there are changes come Heroic Week, will be up and done the day after at the latest.
hidden bridge
What's the map thing in the top right tracking?
Just now learning sin but I don't see anything that resembles that
drifting cloud
your 1st row talent
civic palm
Mutilate attack with both weapons, each attack of Mutilate can crit/miss/etc.
hidden bridge
Does much thought go into when you toxic blades outside of right before an envenom
arctic walrus
Try to not have your bleeds fall off inside the window
Leaving you only needing to mut/env
hidden bridge
And looking through logs I presume when its mut->mut->envenom instead of mut->env it's just because they got a 2x crit proc and use a 4cp envenom
hidden bridge
ye
arctic walrus
Mut mut env is 1 didnt crit
hidden bridge
mut mut means they got 2/3
on first one
ye ok
Makes sense
I see the sequencing of rupture and garrote alternates sometimes is that arbitrary
If im at 0
and mut gives me 3
do i garrote -> rupture 4
hidden bridge
Is there a threshold where if my garrote has a certain number of seconds
its better to mut again -> rupture -> garrote
instead of garroting to 4
arctic walrus
Sometimes it won’t always be garrote straight followed by a rupture
hidden bridge
Yea
arctic walrus
And it doesn’t really matter cuz you lose no dps assuming both are during pandemic
arctic walrus
It’s in the pins
But basically your dots reach a threshold where you can reapply them without losing any ticks
civic palm
don't lose time*
arctic walrus
And it simply adds on the remainder
civic palm
Due to their haste scaling you will always lose a tick unless you let it drop off entirely (which should almost never be the case).
hidden bridge
Yea I was just curious if there's much of a difference in using the garrote to get a 4 rupture off and then going back to envenom vs getting a 5 rupture and delaying an envenom by a gcd
arctic walrus
Any weak aura pack you’ll notice garrote and rupture light up when they’re close to finishing
That means you can reapply them any time remaining, and the duration will be added on to whatever you apply
hidden bridge
Ye
arctic walrus
4 and 5 rupture don’t mean much outside of time
Very nit picky, but technically you’ll prefer the garrote 4 cup rupture
hidden bridge
Yes that's what I wanted to know thanks
arctic walrus
Because that way you can fit that mut into Elaborate planning window
hidden bridge
So 3 cp -> garrote -> rupture -> mut (till 4/5cp) -> envenom will be better than 3 cp -> mut -> 5 rupture -> garrote -> mut (till 4/5cp) -> enenom
arctic walrus
Yeah
hidden bridge
Since the garrote gcd falls in your EP window
Makes sense
thanks
Seem's pretty straight forward
civic palm
Just never do that unless Garrote is under 5.4secs remaining > _> :3
hidden bridge
yea
Was just curious when they do line up to both be within the window what sequencing is better
arctic walrus
Also it’s better to mut during the env window, and garroting at 0 cp guarantees you at 1 cp you can get unlucky and now need 2 muts, after dumping all that energy into garrote to build up again to 4/5
So it just slows you down, garroting early rather than later in your cp cycle
hidden bridge
I see so it's better to be picky with your 1 cp to get you into 4/5 rather than praying for the mut procs after already using your 1cp? As long as you don't let the dots drop
arctic walrus
Entirely 
from me personally but it makes sense
hidden bridge
Yeah absolutely
civic palm
It's better but within the mathematical margin of error.
hidden bridge
Ye
civic palm
It makes sense that (especially with Double Dose) Mutilating as many times as you can inside ENV and/or EP is better.
arctic walrus
Basically just don’t let bleeds drop and you’re fine lol
hidden bridge
I'm just learning from scratch so figured i'd memorize what's good to do before I even get the muscle memory going
arctic walrus
Over capping with cp is fine when using Tb
civic palm
Just don't overcap CP from Mutilating @ 4cp, don't overcap NRG outside the opener, keep bleeds up 98%+ of the time.
hidden bridge
What's double dose
green tide
Azerite trait
civic palm
hidden bridge
ic
And why is over capping fine when using TB? Just because the extra poison procs from mutiplate/dd inside env is so much damage?
given the 30% nature damage buff from tb
civic palm
The loss of 1/2 CP changes nothing.
arctic walrus
Cp lost is worth less than having to Tb at 0 cp just after a finisher and building up again
civic palm
and you use TB much less in combat than MUT, so even accidentally overcapping combo points with TB won't change anything.
If you got into the habit of MUTing at 4 it would be extremely bad, whereas TBing @ 5 and then doing poison shit more than makes up for the loss of 1/2 CP.
hidden bridge
So TB increases your nature damage for 9s. Envenom and mutilate (from double dose) do nature damage
What does that have to do with MUT at 4
And when you say doing poison shit by doing TB at 5 you mean like 5cp -> TB -> envenom -> mut to 4/5 -> envenom, etc
civic palm
Mutilating at 4 is just a bad habit and DPS loss, unlike TBing at 5.
and yeah you smash as many MUTs and ENVs inside TB as possible.
2 is good, 3 is great.
hidden bridge
Ah shit I was thinking of MUT as the bleed
Was confused why MUT at 4 was bad
x-x
Makes sense
civic palm
ahhhh, least you sorted that out before looking real silly.
hidden bridge
In regards to 'padding'
What kind of ST increase is it to keep dots up on a second add
That doesn't have to die
Like a jaina last phase scenario on tide elemental
civic palm
IIRC if it actively takes you off the primary target to apply, reapply, and keep poisons on the target; then it's not worth it.
Assassination is very Single Target or Multi-target, very rarely both; due to our poor spread of traits.
hidden bridge
So muti dotting an add that isn't supposed to die is usually not a ST increase
arctic walrus
2-3 is pretty good
civic palm
I will say, that if you can't mouse-over and have to run over, probably a loss.
If you're passing by, like on Queen's Court, probably a gain.
But that stuff has to die.
hidden bridge
Should I set up mouseover macro's for rupture and garrote for multi dotting?
And I assume u just mutilate to hope for poison proc
arctic walrus
Queens court is definitely not passing by
civic palm
You don't have to worry about mouse-over for dotting.
arctic walrus
You can just tab target it’s fine
civic palm
The only reason you would need to mouse-over is if you have a buff/etc. that would drop due to changing targets.
Mythic QC is not passing by, for sure.
Otherwise, ehhh... you kinda do whatever.
hidden bridge
Do I mutilate to roll poison procs or do I dump an envenom and then roll
civic palm
roll?
hidden bridge
Your bleeds only generate energy if its on a target thats poisoned
civic palm
Ye.
hidden bridge
So I have to do somethign to the add to get it posioned right
arctic walrus
It’s a phrase old man
hidden bridge
Do I just mutilate it or do I need the 30% poison chance from envenom
civic palm
You attack so fast that odds are your AA will apply it.
civic palm
If you are on the target for more than 2 seconds, odds are it's poisoned.
hidden bridge
Got it
civic palm
But the multi-dotting on bosses depends entirely on the boss and strat the group is doing. No harm in learning whether or not something works on one pull before doing something else on the next.
hidden bridge
Yeah absolutely I just wasn't sure how much multi dotting increases ST if I need to be focused on pure ST
Cause the 7 energy tick seems like a lot but that's a lot of cp dumped into a secondary target
civic palm
Yeah RUP+GAR+poison, then refreshing poison, DoTs, etc.
Each additional target demands 2 GCDs and you are -1 ENV due to needing the CP for Rupture.
hidden bridge
ye
civic palm
The energy would have to be substantial to make up for the loss.
dense cedar
Almost time to start playing the game again
hidden bridge
pog
civic palm
and because I mentioned it earlier, in regards to the mouse-over DoTing stuff, it's only a DPS gain when you have things like this going on;
civic palm
Yep.
dense cedar
I miss Eye of Command
hidden bridge
Well thanks for the help lads
civic palm
👋
civic palm
There are wowhead and icy-vein guides that are very comprehensive as well.
hidden bridge
Yeah, just in my experiecne a lot of them don't get into the nuances
They try to blanket statement most stuff
arctic walrus
I never got a good one
civic palm
Not this time, shockingly.
The Mystler guide on wowhead covers pretty much what we went over, the IcyVeins one is much newer and has a bit of a different focus.
civic palm
Feel free to drop some logs in here later on if there are bumps that need smoothing.
poop jokes
dense cedar
tbh the only trinket i really miss from Legion is Convergence
civic palm
CoF was dope and dumb.
dense cedar
but that was only with all the other cooldown reduction stuff layered on top
love my minute cd vendettas
civic palm
Draught was super dumb as well.
civic palm
I also don't miss a lot of it.
hidden bridge
Same, only thing I don't miss is the random rng fest
dense cedar
ye miz
hidden bridge
yep
dense cedar
Kingsbane was actually the best thing they ever added to sin rogue
dense cedar
Sprint dps CD 
hidden bridge
^
Do you guys mouseover shadowstep
For allies
Or is it rare enough that you just click that shit
dense cedar
i jsut click
civic palm
Depending on the boss and need I will do different things.
daring cave
hows Sin doing so far in M+ this week
lunar cove
hey um i was wondering how much haste i should aim for as sin i have 21% but did not know if i need more for single target
drifting cloud
theres no magic number, you equip the items that sim more
all secondaries are pretty close to eachother on st
lunar cove
alright thanks and happy new year
oak solar
so what are the best azerites stacking at the moment ? for assasin rogue for mythic +
to many options , is it still 3x double dose , 3xss?
oak solar
thx rav
harsh sphinx
it's more affix/dungeon specific than outlaw trait wise. check out seliathan or monringwind's stream sometime
strange python
Happy new year guys one short question what im doing when i have full cp before Vend do I overcap cp with tb?
in the opener
cobalt pelican
yes
strange python
@cobalt pelican also overcap with garrot if i have 5 cp?
cobalt pelican
uhh
not sure how you'd get to 5cp before your first garrote
you either mut rupt mut (4) garrote
or mut mut rupt gar
small kestrel
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
austere whale
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
subtle tundra
i have a question about the new affix
anyone that has tested it, can you tell me if we can be stealthed when we press the pillar to go in the realm?
or if we have enough time to restealth before getting in combat with it
outer lotus
You lose stealth when you click it i believe
subtle tundra
marble hemlock
Yes
And you instantly get in combat with the general downstairs, unless it is pulled away from the obelisk.
So the tank should drag the mob towards the location where you wanna drop the portal immediately, and you should wait a second or two before going down so you get your stealth.
subtle tundra
i might not play assa next patch
rigid mango
subtle tundra
if i could delete that spec i would gladly
right now im considering what class i can play
terse orchid
subtle tundra
feral has the same problem but not as big, all other melees are meh and all that remains is range which leaves me with bm hunter which is boring and i already play it a bit, mage which isn't very fun and elemental shaman
subtle tundra
i dont like balance in keys cause i've tried it and i have no idea about shadow
dark crag
Or stay outlaw for keys and be a superior being
tropic ocean
good sin talk
latent gazelle
^^
austere whale
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lost horizon
Both rupture and garrote dont tick immediately on application right?
cobalt pelican
both wait 1 full ticktimer before doing damage
noble pilot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hidden bridge
Is there a trick for lining up toxic blades for your second vendeta vanish
rigid mango
Wait with your vend vanish aslong as it doesn't lose you a cast
hidden bay
so u say this one is wrong? https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/c5a4021105d1852f71e0a42f12ab1619-png.jpg
🤔
warm parcel
whats the context
warm parcel
Is that trinket at the start font
hidden bay
yy
hidden bay
ah that
cobalt pelican
disgusting
rigid mango
Wtf is this shit
cobalt pelican
orc players
rigid mango
rigid mango
That's kinda semi fine ish
warm parcel
He seems to lilke to vanish end of ven for double trinket
distant lava
is he a social herp ?
hidden bay
no 
cobalt pelican
stop flaming him in public toxic gamer.......
distant lava
thankfully he has your helpful eye to help him 
cobalt pelican
he's trying his best.......
distant lava
better zaqul parses than me 
hidden bay
i mean i even talk to him all the time
rigid mango
hidden bay
but he doesnt understand
rigid mango
Tell him to come to my dms and I can help him as much as possible
distant lava
oof
warm parcel
TBF mine looks like this
gusty mirage
@rigid mango I don't think even you can help this 
rigid mango
Nah I believe.
arctic walrus
yikes might need to help weak too
iron heath
hi
arctic walrus
iron heath
whats the talents for m plus?
gusty mirage
I mean if anyone can, its definitely you but the guy's gotta be willing to learn 
rigid mango
If he's in herp's guild he's got to have done something right
gusty mirage
@iron heath same as raid for the most part, except subterfuge and either PB or CT final tier (depends on dungeon)
rigid mango
^
arctic walrus
gusty mirage
I wish venom rush was better
rigid mango
arctic walrus
⭕
gusty mirage
It just sucks ass, I don't see it being a better option on any tier tbh
arctic walrus
I feel like ct should've been on that row
royal lantern
the cc tier....?
like, if it would replace prey, it would be the best talent for raiding atleast
arctic walrus
i mean duh? you're putting a damage talent on a cc row lol
rigid mango
Eh, I'd rather have a designated aoe tier or smth
Keep CT and add 2 new options, 1 ST 1 cleave
royal lantern
lets hope for better talents in 9.0
rigid mango
I.e remove HB
gusty mirage
That'd just make sense though, they clearly want to shove sin into straight ST or straight AoE
rigid mango
They just need to get rid of the entire like
"left column is for new players" kinda thinking
I don't like forced passives for the sake of simplicity, dulls down overall design opportunity, especially with how dull rotations are in general.
arctic walrus
What does your 2nd set of cds look like with subt
mostly the vanish window
cuz you don't do gar rup gar right?
gusty mirage
in m+?
rigid mango
I've always done just the one garrote since you'll always have one rolling anyways
gusty mirage
yeah, the subt window afaik changes things only in cleave situations
cobalt pelican
you vanish single garrote on an existing garrote for MAX DURATION
and you have to delay vend
though i think sim only delays vend with 1xss+
you'd prolly always do it in reality unless you know the timer is bad
rigid mango
Yeah idk no reason not to
hidden bay
we needed players and he was one of the few with okaish logs @rigid mango
but now week after week he is not improving
cobalt pelican
jawohl i am roguespiele
rigid mango
That's me anyways
rigid mango
shrewd iron
Has there been some kind of secret nerf? I suddenly sim for 2k less dps
rigid mango
Link the two sims
shrewd iron
I don't have the previous sim but I remember I did around 51.5k there
rigid mango
Link the new one then
hidden bay
nazjatar disabled
shrewd iron
oh
rigid mango
That was my guess
shrewd iron
Thank you lol
rigid mango
Didn't even get to see it for my self herp 
shrewd iron
Was starting to go over talents and essences for something obvious 😛
wanton pond
what azerite trait set ups are people running this week
rigid mango
3 eb ss
strange python
Can anyone do log review?
rigid mango
yessir
rigid mango
You missed 1, nearly 2 tb's
strange python
Ok, anything else?
strange python
ye then I helt toxic blade
rigid mango
Essentially use TB on CD
rigid mango
tb + vanish at any point post vend
strange python
so still working on it
rigid mango
That's p much it
strange python
so no major rotation issues?
rigid mango
Apart from the ones I've mentioned, nah
hidden bay
wasted a couple combopoints by overcapping
rigid mango
Yeah, 16 sec left on font or 6 sec left on coral cd w/ever floats ur boat
Eh
Overcapping w tb is fine
Overcapping w garrote is not optimal but kinda w/ever
strange python
I think I only overcap with tb?
rigid mango
not a huge loss, aslong as it isn't muting you're fine really
You overcapped once with garrote but 
hidden bay
and applied 2 times rupture too early by 0.1 second 
strange python
XD
rigid mango
Really fucked that one up mate
rigid mango
cough
drifting cloud
strange python
can u do my behe too?
strange python
ty 🙂
rigid mango
Ignore puffer if u want to squeeze more yeah
but it seems like this is semi prog or smth w these kill timers so
wouldn't care too much
rigid mango
Gaping hole
idk again you kinda hold it for a weird amount of time atleast twice here
so ye, fix tb casting that's p much it
cobalt pelican
claim your coral b efore boss do the die
press pk/feint less
use your arcane torrent more
you're pretty much never going to do good damage on a 72 minute sivara kill but lots of small stuff that can be tidied up
hidden bridge
What profs are bis for raid next tier?
JC LW or LW Alch?
How's the alchemy trinket stacak up
rigid mango
Depends a bit on what u want
tropic ocean
dont think alch trinket is really worth it
usually engineering (for helm) and lw or jc
personally will use lw/engi and just spam farm rings from mecha
hidden bridge
LW comes with 25 corruption tho
Wonder how much that will cuck the prof
Since its just bonus stats
strange python
can't you cleanse them?
tropic ocean
in the begin u will only use 1 or 2 items anyway till u grinded cloak so
tropic ocean
wont be a big impact imo and if u cant just cleanse y
hidden bridge
You doing engi just for the early 475 azerite?
Or is it bis
Cause the maut helm seems pretty good
And he's 2nd boss
wanton pond
are unbridled fury better or agi pots for sin?
hidden bridge
Dang
Prob bis actually
That seems like a permanent haste buff
Also unbridled fury @wanton pond
worldly fable
Is there any point in vanishing if you are not talented into Master Assassin and you take Garrote out of the picture?
I feel like I'm missing something
drifting cloud
I mean every talent in the 2nd row makes vanish a dps cd
worldly fable
Take Garrote out of the picture
ashen solar
And yeah subterfuge still makes vanish a dps cd, it just comes from garrote
worldly fable
Assume we don't have it
ashen solar
If we're assuming we dont have it then you should be running master assassin
Since subterfuge will literally do nothing
drifting cloud
well you never say you play subt, so sure we take ns and still dps increase.
worldly fable
I'm just seeing logs where people vanish and I assume they are running master assassin
But I just want to be sure I'm not missing something
worldly fable
Using vanish without garrotes *
rigid mango
worldly fable
I'm assa, I guess I didn't make my question clear enough or people went over it faster than they should
ashen solar
do people run NS ever
warm parcel
No
ashen solar
Thought so
worldly fable
Maybe I should have asked "does vanish have an innate trait that increases dps or does it all come from talents?"
warm parcel
Vanish itself doesnt offer anything
ashen solar
It comes from talents
warm parcel
Its 100% tied to talents
worldly fable
Alright
warm parcel
It would only be utility
worldly fable
Just have this weird feeling sometimes were you're missing out something right in front of you, you know?
warm parcel
I mean its historically been dps in itself
And depending on spec
So its fair assumption
ashen solar
warm parcel
Well ask that q from the robot after you get the item
arctic socket
Is any of the time walking trinkets worth going for? (Any viability for raid/mythic+)
cobalt pelican
to clarify above the crafted gear doesn't have any corruption on it to begin with anyway unless they're reiterated on it in the last week
storm lodge
What’s e correct rotation when using razor coral and font? Seems like I’m never able to get the full benefit of either trinket during the vendetta window.. it’s either full font and half coral or half font and full coral
rigid mango
Font > 14 sec > vend > 6 sec > coral
storm lodge
Oh
rigid mango
Total you get 16sec of font 14 sec coral within vend
rigid mango
Not afaik.
storm lodge
Just seeing the two trinkets and vendetta side by side along with theirs cool downs and buff timers
Ideal would be if it could flash at the correct time for me to hit vend and coral
Seems error prone otherwise 😅
Yah.. will check it out
cobalt pelican
it's a lot easier to just remember font -> vend when coral is up or when tb is up, whichever comes first
storm lodge
That would only give 10 secs of coral right ?
I was going by what zine said about 16 secs of font and 14 secs of coral
rigid mango
Sin is a slow spec you can just have your coral WA placed somewhere relativly visible and hit vend as soon as you see 6 left on the timer
storm lodge
Yeah.. will practice that .. just got font recently so feels clunky
Ah! Yeah that definitely helps
I’ll fall back to that if I’m failing hard at maxing
quasi pewter
With what zine said you get 20s font 14s coral in vendetta though
cobalt pelican
4 seconds of the 14 seconds is channel time anyway so you always end up with 20 seconds of vend on default timings, and if you've scuffed a tb somewhere you just wait for coral cd before pressing vend
quasi pewter
Not 16
cobalt pelican
it's rly as simple as font -> vend before tb/coral
and then tb/coral whichever wasn't up for vend
rigid mango
Yeah what saryero said
storm lodge
Ah!
rigid mango
I'm too tired
storm lodge
Thanks guys ! Love this channel
distant flint
wtha status assassination ?
rigid mango
Huh?
civic palm
Assassination is still in the game, can confirm.
marble hemlock
maybe he wants to know the statprio for assassination?
rigid mango
Probably? I'm just awaiting confirmation.
distant flint
current status of
obsidian ruin
its still a spec, ye
distant flint
assassi
rigid mango
You focus whatever sims highest 😄
storm lodge
it changes depending on your gear level...when i started out haste simmed highest, but now its mastery (idk why but i'm trusting the sims) .. it also depends on your azerite traits
rigid mango
The latter for sure.
civic palm
Essences as well, always SIM, you have those tools.
rigid mango
Thanks?
distant flint
😄
storm lodge
lol
robust gull
does crippling poison give any dps benefit/do people use it in raids?
civic palm
Only if it allows you to track the target better while moving, otherwise it does nothing/makes things take longer to get to where the tank wants them.
green tide
^ the number of times I've heard "who slowed the adds, leave them the f alone"
sleek swallow
so does anyone prefer iron wire vs internal bleeding in m+?
arctic walrus
iron wire is basically exclusively taken
sleek swallow
gotcha
oblique smelt
Getting back in to playing my rogue, got razor coral and inkpod, should i always use coral so that it guarantees a crit on inkpod? or try to line it up with a vendetta?
arctic walrus
noted in the pins, but pair with vendetta
cosmic prism
is it worth it to track envenom / have a pandemic wa for it?
tropic ocean
not really
by just playing the rotation you'll naturally have good uptime
only thing u can do is clipping it but its minor so
wouldnt worry about it
marble hemlock
during TB you generally try to clip EP, not the envenom buff, when casting envenom
that automatically leads to you refreshing envenom within pandemic
oblique moon
@cosmic prism tracking envenom is more for raid when you’re playing double dose traits
quasi pewter
If you want to track something, track eb for clipping. Tracking envenom is kind of pointless.
marble hemlock
It's good to have so outside of TB windows you can clip envenoms instead of clipping EP to ensure as close to 100% envenom uptime as possible when casting Mutilate.
quasi pewter
I dont think tracking envenom is gonna improve ur dps in any way. U always want to mut asap after finishers anyway. Or am i pepega?
tranquil moat
How are you guys dealing with explosives this week? I’m losing a ton of my damage as I’m having to hit tab and mutilate them
Maybe I should create a macro or something?
shut garnet
well yes, but the point of that is so after you get 5CP and pool until 110-120 energy you spam mut and envenoms
in theory by doing that you're already "tracking"
some might find it better to actually have a timer of it on their screen just preference i guess
rigid mango
Essentially right now, by ignoring the buffs entirely and just spam build/finish you're playing nearly optimally anyways, and the diff between doing that and trying to minmax it further is very minor
quasi pewter
Sure, but imo there is no point at all to tracking envenom
rigid mango
You naturally fit a majority of your mut's in env, atleast should.
All of them, really.
rigid mango
Yeye but the gains are very minor either way
shut garnet
you can track/not track whatever you like
rigid mango
Env should come naturally, EP is just small waiting and giving it an extra 1 second window before you'd finish again
But even then it's tiny
rigid mango
Ye ik.
quasi pewter
rigid mango
marble hemlock
Its a minor thing for sure
In high-energy situations, clipping envenom is a dps gain however. Most of the time you wont be in that situation, but its what will ultimately allow you to envenom mut mut rup mut mut with all those mutilates being affected by envenom because you pooled/clipped it properly the previous 15seconds
quasi pewter
I feel like this happens naturally 99% of the time
marble hemlock
Essentially the prio is to pool to ensure most or all Muts are affected by envenom, and if you pooled well youre gonna sit at 100-120energy at which point you dont pool perfectly anymore, but clip envenom/ep instead
cause if you pooled in the same manner once youre sitting on high-energy, youd overcap 😄
And yeah, it happens by default most of the time, but you gotta keep in mind that experienced assa players dont really think about pooling/clipping anymore
A newer player would have to remind themselves to not press the buttons the moment they are ready to use
quasi pewter
Sure i guess
marble hemlock
theyd use the 4cp mut they just got to instantly use another envenom, instead of sitting on their current ep/envenom buffs and use the time to pool to prepare their next TB window
strange python
Which are the best trait and essences for assa in raid rn ? And its crit mastery the stats right ?
quasi pewter
Clf major lucid iris minor/conflict minor
For traits sim ur gear, double dose nothing personal loyal and twist the knife are good
Stats sim, generally crit haste tho
Also get worldvein and blood of the enemy for next tier, likely to be used
rigid mango
All stats are +- equal since they're good at some point.
strange python
Its not 3dd 3twist ?
rigid mango
Just depends a bit on what you're wearing
quasi pewter
No. Twist is not that strong, only reason people use it is because the piece has overwhelming+another good trait on it
Aka loyal/double dose
Pretty much everything can be solved by simming ur top gear
quasi pewter
I said above crit haste is ahead usually atm
rigid mango
That's how you get your best stuff.
quasi pewter
split veldt
is there a trinket tier list somehwhere?
strange python
was about to ask the same since I struggle to sim properly for m+
also is coral value diminished for assa since we swap targets a lot in aoe to keep up dots?
rigid mango
@split veldt for what?
split veldt
dps
split veldt
raid and M+
split veldt
i know that much, i just remember back at the start of the expac there was a sim list with every trinket
rigid mango
There's herodamage
strange python
how close does vendetta/bote have to be to hold toxic blade for it? or do you hold it regardless?
mossy light
Just returned to wow after 9 months away, what's likely to be the best raiding spec in the new raid?
shut garnet
assassination, just like this tier most likely
tranquil moat
sin for life
shut garnet
and it's worth delaying bote/vend to not miss tb casts off cd @strange python
though i guess it is kinda acceptable to hold tb if the cd on vend/bote is coming up in <6-7s
strange python
aah okay
rigid mango
aslong as it wont lose you a cast of your major cd's you just delay them to tb
You don't want to hold tb
shut garnet
it depends on kill timer though, doesnt it? if you know its gonna die a couple of seconds after your vendetta wouldnt you rather hold tb for like 3-4 seconds so you can have tb buff during your vend blood window?
quasi pewter
You dont have to hold vendetta long even with the worst possible timings
rigid mango
I mean now ur talking insanely niche situations
Oh yeah it'll die in a couple seconds yes press ur cds
Don't hold TB, align CD's to TB.
quasi pewter
If vendetta is 7s cd and you know boss dies in exactly 27 seconds i guess you could hold tb? Kek
But no other way around 99% of thr time since tb is so low cd
You will always get tb in vendetta because vendetta is 20s and tb is 25 sec cd
So if you tb 5 sec before vendetta you can hold vendetta for 10s and still get a full tb inside
Which is better than holding tb for 5s
strange python
and what kind of stats do you guys run? I hear people say full crit/mast but when I try to sim I get haste prio on low targets and vers being quite good on aoe
rigid mango
Crit mast for m+ yeah
quasi pewter
Crit mastery vers for aoe
All good
Haste not so much
But haste good for st and like 2 targets even i think
gusty mirage
@rigid mango we found the answer when people ask about essences for 8.3, was watching morning's stream yesterday when he was messing around on the PTR. The answer is, get 2 pieces with echoing void on there and literally nothing else matters at all at that point
rigid mango
hm?
gusty mirage
the corruption effect is stupid broken right now, it was doing almost 40% of his damage overall on dungeons
gusty mirage
sub's back
rigid mango
Aoe is probably gonna be even more aids than just ST stuff
gusty mirage
It's going to be interesting to see how they manage to balance it, because it has the potential to be solid but using stam pots + stam flasks + stam food as a DPS gain is ridiculous lol
rigid mango
I just see this system going ballistic one way or another
We'll see, I'll be spam farming as many pieces as I can and test shit out first day
rigid mango
No
robust gull
ok if you dont mind...ive been playing outlaw but switching to sin, just wondering if im making huge mistakes or what i can improve on
rigid mango
small change is mut again after rupture in the opener
you wanna mut again there as you're still in the MA window and garrote directly after
robust gull
ya ive been working on that opener on the dummy trying to get the hang of it
forgot about a second mut after rupture if i dont do two before rupture
quasi pewter
Cant see anything major tbh
rigid mango
Nope, seems good
robust gull
ya ive been lurking in this channel a while and spending a lot of time on the dummy
rigid mango
you overcapped some CP's on behemoth and radiance
robust gull
so whats the secret to getting the 99+ parses
quasi pewter
Using 2nd pot helps too
robust gull
ya i fucked that up a couple times
do you second pot with your second vendetta or does it matter when you use it
outer lotus
You get a small bonus from using it with coral or CLF
rigid mango
Best to use it with hero outside of it
strange python
using it on an OP proc with 3x OP is pretty big no?
robust gull
ya, definitely need some more sin gear
rigid mango
Think it's a very minor gain to just use it with vend since you're physically pressing more buttons
But
quasi pewter
I press it pretty much randomly if we lust on pull
But make sure fight lasts 1 more minute
rigid mango
I just remember to press it when I pop cds 
quasi pewter
Umbridled doesnt scale with agi right
outer lotus
No
quasi pewter
Focused resolve could be useful next tier mb
robust gull
is there an especially good dagger that drops from dungeons?
outer lotus
ilvl is most important though
robust gull
great, i hate td
shut garnet
you have to remember parses are to do with other players also, and at this point in the tier after reclearing 999999999 times ppl discovered pad strats
outer lotus
Just run dungeons that can drop daggers and hope for forges
rigid mango
just spam UR
quasi pewter
And all stats are good for us in st
robust gull
so its just the ilvl really
quasi pewter
Nah its loyal cheese
rigid mango
Ah
outer lotus
*royale with cheese
shut garnet
the kill timer IS perfect to add on top of the cheese yes
robust gull
so is it harder to get high parses the later it gets into the tier?
rigid mango
I've been waiting for the NA group to do it
rigid mango
Easiest time to get parses is when you're in a top tier guild and kill a boss early
shut garnet
assuming you're averaging 80-90 mark during progression