thats WITH buffs....right?
#assassination
pearl pagoda
subtle tundra
i dont think it is
2.2k haste doesnt seem unreachable
i can do this and with only 437 ilvl cause fuck titanforging
cobalt gyro
covert schooner
Any high end asssassins want to help me make sure my rotation is right for M+?
arctic walrus
what's your question
covert schooner
For the azerite gear I have and the essences, I'm just making sure i'm doing the right rotation
round hatch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic walrus
opener? in the pins
rotation? keep 4 bleeds up (garrote or rupture)
like you need to ask a specific question about your rotation that you are not too sure of. or at least state your gear and essences
small kestrel
guys im wondering if i need to buy new benthic for assasin cus i play outlaw but since i wont have azerite trais should i just buy a new set of benthic for assas so i can have assas trais
arctic walrus
benthic azerite? You can just reforge, don't need to buy a whole other set
small kestrel
but wouldnt that cost alot
arctic walrus
also there's just better places to get your azerite from so look into that
I mean not really
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
arctic walrus
it starts out at 5 gold and doubles every time
like, how broke are you?
or more importantly how much do you want to keep switching?
obsidian mountain
Condensed/ Lucid/ iris for raid
storm lodge
the "score" for bte is higher and im not sure i fully understand what that means
jaunty coral
Hello. I just came back to bfa for 8.3 but rerolled to rogue. I've read assassination is best raiding spec?
storm lodge
for pure single target damage - yeah.. its pretty amazing
jaunty coral
And for mythic+ looking like outlaw is the choice?
storm lodge
both of them work, but outlaw seems less effort imo... its what i do - outlaw for m+ and sin for raids, but farming both good daggers and swords/maces/axes is a pain
with the correct traits - echoing blades, shrouded suffocation - sin is pretty decent in m+
(maybe one of the more knowledgable people can correct me if im wrong)
jaunty coral
I see. 8.3 looking to be the same way I would assume. Also, thanks for the help 😎
storm lodge
sorry by less effort, i mean an easier rotation and more forgiving..popping blade flurry gives a lot of easy cleave
primal zodiac
for me its the opposite, when im feeling lazy im playing sin in m+ xD
storm lodge
ohh
primal zodiac
but im just your average joe m+ player, so idk
cobalt pelican
the wcl page is like pretty just.. useless for essences
it just means on average across the entire raid people do more damage with blood than clf (kinda)
but people only play blood on zaqul azshara and orgo if they're padding which are all multitarget
storm lodge
ah i see
yeah i was reading that it scales pretty well with echoing blades so thats most likely it..they just pop it and hit fok during ads
torpid cradle
Is there much difference form 2x Ss and eb and 3x?
tropic ocean
Pn aoe 2->3 eb is pretty noticeable
bold torrent
I know the Coral trinket is very good in a raid environment, but does it compete in M+ where it will keep giving 2 stack crits or similar only, and with possibly a tank that will not always chainpull? Talking 10-15 keys here... not super high.
royal lantern
dmg proc+free crit, its all you want tbh
bold torrent
so the agility + the direct damage plus little crit is still worth it?
compared to other same ilvl trinkets
like harlans or spyglass
royal lantern
you have 2 trinket slots
cobalt pelican
jawohl englisch richtig
marble hemlock
🇬🇧
strange python
But my english is bad 🙂
vestal wren
the server language is English, pls stick to it
strange python
Ok i have a macro problem have you time to check it?
marble hemlock
just say what the problem is, and im sure someone is able/willing to help
strange python
Is it possible to use the same button for cheap shot and example smokebomb? you use cheap shot only in stealth. the problem i see is that you can use cheap shot 3 sec after going out of stealth.
cobalt pelican
you can use stance modifiers but yeah you won't be able to use smoke bomb from stealth in that case
strange python
ok meant its not possible? but with sap and example rupture its possible?
vestal wren
you can use the [combat] modifier for that
strange python
thx for that answers. #showtooltip Fieser Trick(Cheap shot)
/cast [nocombat] Fieser Trick; Finte(feint)
works fine but i can not use the second cheap shot he use instant feint can i delay the cheap shot 3sec and after that it use feint?
terse orchid
vestal wren
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
vestal wren
^
shy axle
the opener in m+ gear on st was ss - rup -ss -mut - vend - tb - bote? not sure where to put the essence
arctic socket
I always use my essence before vendetta
shy axle
wouldn`t that waste the bote 5 sec buff though
cobalt pelican
you coudl use something like /castsequence [reset=3] Cheap Shot; Smoke Bomb
but it's just not ideal really cause you want to bomb from stealth somtiems
strange python
ok. next version: #showtooltip Cheap shot
/cast [nocombat] Fieser Trick; [nostance] Feint . cheap shot works in nocombat and feint can not be used in the 3 sec after stealth because nostance. i think he take the 3 sec as stance 1. The last piece that i need is to say that makro use cheap shot after cheap shot(nocombat) in stance 1 again before 3 sec was gone and he switch in nostance. Omg confusing
summer valve
if you want it to cheapshot during subterfuge and feint otherwise you can just use #showtooltip /cast [stance]Cheap Shot;Feint
strange python
Omg so easy thanks a lot and thanks to all the others who have invested their time in my problem 🙂
i can use cheap shot 3 times and after that it use feint
when i use cheap shot two times and i wait 1 sec i can cast feint perfekt for me
quick harbor
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frail wasp
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
Hello again 🙂 i have a last problem #showtooltip Tritt
/cast [mod:shift,@arena2][mod:strg,@arena3][@focus,harm][@arena1] Tritt works fine.
#showtooltip Nierenhieb
/cast [mod:shift,@arena2][mod:strg,@arena3][@focus,harm][@arena1] Nierenhieb mod ctrl doesnt work
but i copy it and change only kidney
dark crag
And shift is working?
dark crag
You sure you don't have ctrl+ kidney hotkey as a bind somewhere?
Macro syntax is correct
strange python
i chek this out
no ctrl and kidney not bind. whats macro syntax?
ok when i copy it its one letter fewer then the original but what got lost? i dont find the difference 😦
i write it again same effect. I chek all spaces. I think i am to stupid for this xD
dark crag
macro syntax is how you arrange the conditions and such
rose violet
dont think it can be anything else than an already used keybind
dark crag
only difference is that kidney uses cp
vestal wren
its the german ctrl 😉
but its also new to me that you are able to use it in macro conditions
you can try if changing it to ctrl fixes your problem
dark crag
crtl+ number is pet control in standard settings
tested my poison macro with ctrl and it doesn't work because ingame the keys are already bound to petbar
wierd i can use detection while casting poisons
you can use poison+ a gcd ability together
obtuse cedar
Can poison + stealth as well
ruby oar
Hello guys
I have one question
One main hand, should i use Force Multiplier or Deadly?
I'm with 32% crit and 21% haste
arctic walrus
sim it and your enchant doesn't matter what hand it's in
ruby oar
37% mastery
shy dust
Sim the different enchant combinations and it’ll tell you the best one
mortal kite
Anyone know why crit and mastery are suddenly so much better now? From what I knew all we did was stack haste
Right now haste sims under vers
rose violet
are you talking about m+?
mortal kite
Think its in general. I just used raidbots to sim without altering any settings
rose violet
depending on traits crit and mastery are your prefered stats for m+
arctic walrus
At the current movement there's a lot of different sources where we're getting our energy regen from
rose violet
and yet most of the time haste is the best 🤷♀️
arctic walrus
x3 overwhelming power, lucid, and just higher haste values from clf major means we can diversify more in terms of our stat profile
mortal kite
Until you start energy capping I guess
rigid mango
Eh, kinda.
rigid mango
Your stats kinda need to follow in a linear fashion with your haste
Haste good until others are good until haste is good
Kinda.
mortal kite
Okay so they need to stay balanced
rigid mango
Essentially.
mortal kite
Thats too bad, I enjoyed mindlessly gemming and enchanting haste
rigid mango
Just sim 😄
dark crag
Gem crit
mortal kite
Will have to now
dark crag
The difference is so small, but crit is also nice for m+ and other 1 spec
mortal kite
Crit is only 0.80% under haste for me
dark crag
Full crit vs all gem sim was 80 dps for me
mortal kite
MAstery is at 34%
dark crag
And on top was crit + versa 
rose violet
worth
mortal kite
Anyone tried going from assa to outlaw for m+? Is the dmg difference really that big?
rose violet
tried
harsh sphinx
not really
rose violet
didnt suit me
mortal kite
I loved outlaw (combat) but roll the bones is just so bad
I hate the whole idea of the ability
rigid mango
Gives flavour and is not as rng as u think it is 😄
P good shit tbh.
But each to their own.
mortal kite
Explain how its not rng
rose violet
the impact it has is not that big
eager river
because it averages out and there's very rare times when your luck with rolling affects your dps
mortal kite
Well yeah nothing really has a big impact
rose violet
no sinister strike proc is a bigger dmg loss
mortal kite
But you always know that you could have gotten better rolls
And thats frustrating to me
rigid mango
But yah, not the channel for this but
mortal kite
I started with assa vs outlaw dmg
rigid mango
Yea, you think it's more detrimental to your dps than it is
mortal kite
That could be true
rigid mango
Yes, it's needed to breach r1 log from 99 but good play still gets you there.
mortal kite
Im just thinking if its worth starting to play outlaw to get into higher m+ keys since I got declined multiple times for being assa
rose violet
this is not the channel to tell people to go outlaw tho
your welcome to play assa in keys
rigid mango
Eh, assa is like S tier and otl S+
There are very few scenarios you're correct in saying the diff is huge enough to warrant not taking sin.
rose violet
the path to true enlightenment is assa
royal lantern
lets check the sub channel
rose violet
dont
mortal kite
Ye dont think Im quite ready to play a S++ class just yet
rigid mango
Feel free not to.
royal lantern
first thing i see: "sub is not terrible, BUT......"
rigid mango
Lets not have this convo here 😄
rose violet
harsh sphinx
it's a good channel for WoD discussions if you're into that
candid anvil
please, can i garrote both guys in first boss encounter in sots?
or does the shield kill me?
wide oracle
do you mean ToS?
rigid mango
You can multi dot in temple yeah.
It's the action of hitting them so aslong as you apply it before shield goes up you're fine.
Ticks don't hurt you.
worthy cave
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rose violet
@candid anvil can also use @spare cobaltover macros to apply dots while the shield is active
just have to watch out for melee hits from boss
sry for ping mouse
smol brain
dark crag
Can you gauge when all in the group waste their kick on a trivial, easy to dodge cast?
civic palm
People have spec bias for the same reason people think that a green background is a good idea for a chat window.
amber quail
kidney/blind do same effect: interrupt
civic palm
Blind is from much more range than kidney, but sure.
amber quail
green is a relax bg 😄
civic palm
Sure.
strange python
Are they also nerfing the crates etc requirements for Purificaiton Protocol rank 2/3? Also I currently have Purification rank 1. Since rep req are also getting nerfed in 8.3, will I get rank 3 and skip 2 if I am revered?
gray solar
you need to go rank 2 then rank 3 @strange python
strange python
damn 😦 I really hope they nerf the mats req though...
arctic walrus
they're nerfing rep requirements, not sure about mats though
and you won't be able to skip regardless like he said
gray solar
Would not count on it, make sure you do your daily rep thing and you will have the mats regardless @strange python
candid cedar
Is stacking 3 "Nothing Personal" and Vision of Perfection a viable option? 🤔
candid cedar
Let's say general raid dps ^^
civic palm
I'd tell you to run it through Raidbots and see but remember that it's a generalized result on DPS.
and to be fair if you go and try it for a raid or a few bosses and it does well enough for you, then just do it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
arctic walrus
it's not at all
vision desyns your vanish from vendetta, which is a large portion of your burst window, and the major doesn't apply the full 20s of NP anyway
civic palm
IF IT'S FINE IT'S FINE 
candid cedar
civic palm
But yeah Vision is goofy and messes with buff stacking.
candid cedar
The 7sec of NP is quite a good amount of damage though ^^
If the proc was more consistent it would've been nice
arctic walrus
You stack 3 azerite of anything and it'll do a good amount of damage
civic palm
Yeah if it proc'd more it would be better 😛
arctic walrus
what's important is the opportunity cost of running 3np
and btw even with the buff to proc rate in 8.3 it won't be good
candid cedar
What if the major was the minor instead 
civic palm
Seems pretty poor.
mossy willow
would any1 know, in PvP arenas, is it worth dropping ur 3'd TtK on a 430 az piece for a 445 az piece that doesnt have TtK?
dapper gust
I've switched from outlaw to assassination. When I did, my UI, HoA, and half my spells on disappeared. It was suggested that I try assassination. How to begin?
I simmed my 432 outlaw rogue for assassination, and it's coming up with that I should be a 385 assassination. I don't understand.
Trying to keybind assassination, does assassination have the hook to where you can advance your toon to fights?
flint compass
Did you make sure you equipped two daggers? Also they don’t have grappling hook they have shadowstep.
dapper gust
Daggers, idk. I have stagheart hatchet and 7th legion Warhammer, idk if they are daggers or not.
dapper gust
I remember achieving fangs of the father. But can't find them in my bank.
meager spear
Er
dapper gust
Those were daggers, I remember.
meager spear
Thats not gonna help you much, if you need daggers to try the spec then loot at wq or buy some cheap ones off the ah
Look^
Fangs I level will be too low to do anygood
Should be some 385 daggers for like 300g each on auction house
dapper gust
Ok ty, is this spec less complex than outlaw? I've been having trouble with outlaw since inception.
meager spear
For singke target its pretty simple
ashen solar
outlaw isnt even complex dude
dapper gust
I was focused on outlaw M+ to help with dungeons with LFG.
bleak spoke
sin is way more complex than outlaw
i mean, relatively
because neither of them actually are
dapper gust
So assassination is for for single target?
meager spear
For the most part yes, assassination is good on tyrannical weeks in mythic plus tho
meager spear
We do do good aoe, but outlaw will outperform I'm that regard
bleak spoke
sin is better in some situations if you're an incredibly good sin player
the skill floor for that sort of performance is near the skill ceiling for outlaw
dapper gust
Ok tymn. I appreciate it.
meager spear
I guess what were trying to say is assassination is more rewarding the better you get/understand the spec/whereas outlaw kinda can't grow past a certain point if that makes sense
dark swift
hello guys, currently I'm running 3x np, but thinking of swapping one to SoB or Rezan's fury in m+. Any thoughts?
rigid mango
Not running literally of the mentoned traits.
dark swift
don't have much of a choice
rigid mango
Play outlaw? Honestly those're all really bad.
quick harbor
!macro
vestal wren
we should think about wrinting a macro guide 🤔
lusty swan
Hey!. i started playing outlaw 2-3 weeks back, considering to switch to assa, rogue is mainly for M+ but i do raids every now and then any guides for it aside from the ravenholdt guide? *** videos would be lovely***
fathom wyvern
@lusty swan try and watch Seliathans streams for assa gameplay, its really learning and he pretty much answers all questions he gets in chat
lusty swan
Thanks @fathom wyvern ❤️
rigid mango
@lusty swan he himself also wrote the assa guide on icyveins and is highly recommended. Wowhead guide is also really good.
shut garnet
there aren’t that many useful non-pvp macros really, are there?
esp for assa, specifically
unreal kayak
does anyone here think we are still gonna use the EP trinkets if titanforged through next raid ?
rigid mango
Don't have sims to say anything but probs not.
fathom wyvern
@shut garnet alot of ppl use focus target kick/stun macros for m+
hidden bay
cobalt pelican
If the wind blows westwards.
wise sinew
Has anyone tested 3x Nothing Personal on PTR with the vision proc buff?
wise sinew
Yeah was curious since its our guaranteed trait on raid azerite pieces if a vision major kinda build would be a thing for raid.
rigid mango
Highly doubt it since it's bad and stacking that many NP is generally not the best.
Maybe something cheesy or smth comes from it, but I don't see it being better than anything we're running rn.
wise sinew
Okay thanks for the help!
strange python
Do you think the FoK nerf will be dramatic?
rigid mango
Eh, did you read the pin?
royal lantern
fok=1cp baseline, additonal cp for every single crit with it, each enemy has his own chance too get a crit
strange python
I read yours..
royal lantern
nothing changes with it
strange python
ahh ok
rigid mango
It's quite heavily emphasised on "no change in usage"
strange python
whats the perferred trait comp for m+
ashen solar
3x ss 3x eb
strange python
thank you
candid anvil
is viable playing 3xSS 1xEB 2xTTK in this week for void emi burst? or not really worth losing 2 ebs?
or depends if I have someone with high prio dps?
rigid mango
More dependant on dungeon not week
robust gull
Is scent of blood not good for m+?
foggy rampart
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
robust gull
Oh is the reason you use scent of blood in raid for aoe and ss in m+ because you get restealths in m+? Probably a simple question but new to this
drifting cloud
you dont use scent of blood in raids outside of orgozoa pad build
its just not a good trait
shrewd iron
I'm watching Yilayo's stream atm and hei s playing bote on Queen's Court, I asked him why, and he just answered why not. Can someone please explain the logic behind this choice?
rocky ruin
cause he can and does it matter at this point for the TEP Raid?
shrewd iron
For me it does otherwise I wouldn't ask the question @rocky ruin
drifting cloud
if only a website existed where you could check most popular choices
instead of asking a streamer that doesnt give a flying fuck since he cleared the raid 5 months ago
ashen solar
drifting cloud
theres 2 bote logs in top100 on qc
rigid mango
Bote is worse, nothing more to it.
shrewd iron
What essence is most ideal at court c&s or iris?
harsh sphinx
neither
robust gull
so during a fight is it pretty much font, use a couple abilities, vendetta, tb, vanish, and then use coral as soon as you can?
robust gull
ok so you wait that long, thats what i was wondering, makes sense to
what about tb, like do you just use it when its up, or you wait to use it right before vend, or right before coral
er
right after
robust gull
ya i see, was thinking backwards
cant wait to be done with double on use...assuming we wont have that next tier
rigid mango
We wont afaik.
robust gull
honestly the main reason ive been playing outlaw, as stupid as that might sound lol
mystic otter
Am i making it harder for myself when i play assassin from lvl 1?
(25 or 26 lvl atm)
vestal wren
not rly
rigid mango
Other two specs are better for levelling fo sure.
mystic otter
Some people advised me to respec to outlaw for easier mob killing
rigid mango
Seems like a petty reason to not play sin but ehh, I'm so used to it now 😄.
harsh sphinx
whatever you enjoy tbh
mystic otter
Well i wanna learn sin cause its slower
And i want slower more relaxed gameplay
Tired of button mashing with dk x)
robust gull
couple questions about tb window...not sure if im doing something wrong or just overthinking it...
in general you want to get 3 envenoms in the window right?
is it fine to reapply garrote in a tb window?
robust gull
ok, so, if you only get 2 envenoms, its not the end of the world
so is keeping up garrote and rupture still top prio during tb window?
rigid mango
Not at all.
civic palm
Well it's worse for sure, but yeah 2+ should be your general goal.
rigid mango
Yeah, always bleeds up.
robust gull
ooook, ive been dropping rupture sometimes to get in a third envenom
rigid mango
You can refresh rupture 2-3s outside of pandemic if it means not reapplying during tb
robust gull
also if tb is about to expire and you have 3 combo points, would you envenom with tb still up?
rigid mango
Nah still 4+
civic palm
If you are using Double Dose it's probably better to just MUT and ENV outside of TB.
rigid mango
^
robust gull
ok so i think im just overthinking this, and use tb and continue with regular prio
robust gull
ok ive seriously been like blasting my mind trying to min max this but its as simple as following regular prio 😄
rigid mango
You can get a feel for stuff like dropping 1 sec of rupt for extra env and shit when you play a lot
But yeah, pretty simple.
civic palm
Don't feel bad about refreshing Rupture at the END of TB as well, if you have those 3CP and Rupture is timing out, just refresh it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
robust gull
ok actually ya last question about it...if rupture falls off right at the end, do i apply right away even at 2 CP?
civic palm
Never let your Bleeds fall off your primary target.
100% of the time you can plan things better so you don't find yourself in an awkward position.
vast forum
tbh i'd disagree with that but it's just min-maxing for small gains
while learning focus on keeping 100% uptime
robust gull
which part, im all about min maxing
robust gull
only happens right at the end of a tb window, sometimes
but maybe i just need to refresh more before i tb
ashen solar
ℤƚ₦∃Today at 15:10
You can refresh rupture 2-3s outside of pandemic if it means not reapplying during tb
civic palm
I will say that caring about nuance while learning is just a bad idea.
mystic otter
I think if you had some awkward timing sometimes you have to reapply rupture even at 1 point?
civic palm
1CP Ruptures are preeeeeetty short.
vast forum
example: you're at 5cp, vendetta is running and has < 2 sec remaining and you are almost overcapping on energy
vast forum
you envenom then and build to rupture outside of vend
ashen solar
if youre 2-3s out of pandemic, if it means not refreshing in tb you just do it
you're going to lose dps by doing a 1-2 cp rupture lol
civic palm
Probably not an amount you can notice.
ashen solar
that's also true
civic palm
Considering Rupture has no CP scaling and losing 1GCD to Rupture and not ENV isn't the end of the world.
Again, 100% of awkwardness is defeated by better planning.
robust gull
and its ok to use tb at 5 cp right?
tropic ocean
yes
ashen solar
yes
civic palm
Yeah the 1-2 CP you burn is such a tiny amount of "loss" it literally doesn't equate to a loss.
ashen solar
the "loss" i was talking about
is more like your flow being thrown off by something so awkward
robust gull
cool cool, thanks for all the info, everything coming together 😄
civic palm
Yeah SIN is 100% about stacking and timing.
The more awkward to time your CDs become the worse your DPS will be.
quasi pewter
1-2 cp rupture is a full clown move
royal lantern
1-2cp rupture is good for world mobs 
royal lantern
garrote/poisned knife powerplay
ashen solar
royal lantern
member 8.0 with the throwing knife trait 
arctic socket
Remember when dagger in the back was good 
civic palm
No.
open reef
What might be major essence to go for sin after clf nerf? Bote?
civic palm
🔮
open reef
Just w8 for patch and herodamage updates ?
civic palm
Yessir.
Wait for Heroic week to be done and the balance patch prior to Mythic release to be CERTAIN of things.
If things are broken/overpowered after that you can expect them to be nerfed so don't invest HEAVILY into any one thing.
civic palm
❌ nerf it into the grooooooooooound.
civic palm
Yeah but I don't wanna hurt myself
rigid mango
The crit damage inc is a decieving increase when used in conjunction with bote, it's actually not a lot
drowsy snow
!ct
stray ivy
best 8.3 m+ is still outlaw?
civic palm
Maybe?
dire spoke
strange python
Is scent just poop?
strange python
that's what I thoughty
royal lantern
it sounds strong and can be ok at some REALLY specific situations
but its not a good trait in 99%of all situations right now
strange python
I run triple SS, 2 echos and a nothing P. Was thinking of changing the NP to a scent for stacking and making overall dmg better
but thought the boss dmg was worth more
for M+ ofc
ripe nimbus
Hey guys been gone for the last 2 or so months. havent kept up with 8.3 changes, is anything really changing for sin or same shit?
strange python
Don't think there are numbers changes happening, but with essence changes might be cool to see. Been hearing about ppl messing with visions major Nothing personal traits
which would be dope
ripe nimbus
oh yah they buffed vision uptime right?
strange python
proc rate
ripe nimbus
Yah so uptime xD
strange python
ripe nimbus
😛 that would be fun the visions major is fun
well im using 3 DD, 3 NP right now so i guess i can mess around in 8.3 lol
strange python
3 np? opener must be GREAT, but longevity with a twist I think is better for overall dps
idk though, I'm not a number cruncher
royal lantern
twist is not that great for st
strange python
really?
I'm no expert, but it's your main cp dumper
I'd imagine buffing it doesn't hurt
drifting cloud
not like it matters, you cant just magically swap 1 trait, azerites are a sum of all of their 3 traits.
royal lantern
its more like(atleast right now, stuff can change) taking 1xNP and then stack DD is better for most peeps
ye that too
if a piece has OP and atleast 1 good trait, its allready pretty good
shy axle
where do you place bote in the st opener with m+ talents/gear? ss - rup - ss mut - Vend - Tb - bote?
i can`t remember the correct one anymore
obtuse cedar
I'd Vend-TB-Bote
verbal mantle
and you want to use garrote garrote rupture
cause you dont want to refresh your rupture during vendetta
obtuse cedar
I dont even know if the difference between Vend-Bote-Tb & Vend-TB-Bote is that big
Just makes more sense to me to TB prior to Bote
rigid mango
Tb > bote doesn't waste intial window of extra crit dmg on a tb
shut garnet
well, essentially youd wanna start the fight with 2cp so you can garrote rupture garrote
but not the end of the world if u cant
rocky ruin
im asking for friend who wants play again. Just for feelcraft is BotE going to replace CLF or not for Raid?
modest tendon
Nobody knows
rose violet
Will he not play again if there is a change in our bis essence or what
obtuse cedar
I'm guessing he's asking because he doesn't want to grind Bote
rocky ruin
yes mostly cause of the pvp grind
cobalt pelican
i'd say if a 10 hour commitment over the course of a few weeks is too much it's probably best to avoid mmos in general
it's hard to say if it's going to be super relevant right now but i'd guess it's close
rose violet
The grind isn’t actually that bad if you have friends or members in your guild to help
Some of them might not have it and it’s a lot easier with a group of 5
Or gather 9 good people and do rated
modest tendon
Ye one of my guildies did it in the first week or so of the patch, it was double honour I think but he took a load of guildies and co-ordinated so they won quite a lot, he got it done in record time
rocky ruin
I did it too but my bro wants to play rogue again but i say to him if he want to play again he needs to do pvp too
quasi pewter
We will 100% play bote on some bosses in new raid
ashen solar
rogue in unranked bgs is pretty faceroll tho, so shouldnt really worry about that honestly
dusky tinsel
probably play bote majority of the time with CLF nerf
shy axle
wouldn`t ss-ss-rup waste one buffed gar tick?
tidal ruin
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
brave vector
@shy axle G-G-R makes it so you don’t have to use a global reapplying rupture during vendetta, honestly probably doesn’t affect your overall dps that much either way
cobalt pelican
the entire tradeoff is what, 1 tick of empowered garrote for 20% damage on a non-tbed envenom?
vast forum
half a tick
cuz the difference is 1 sec
i guess with a bunch of haste it's more like 0.75 tick
robust gull
How realistic is to maintain both outlaw and sin during the first 3-4 weeks of progression? Mainly worried about getting Azerite for both
Do people just constantly reforge
quasi pewter
Ngl it might actually be worth spending on hc pieces week 1
tropic ocean
not sure about new raid but in ep just reforged for orgozoa
rest was sin
I rolled 2 hc pieces in first id so I could trade 2 slots in hc runs, not sure if best tactic but worked well
vast forum
i spent hundreds of thousands reforging in 8.2
robust gull
I’m think if I want to do sin in raid and outlaw in m+. Or it’s just not realistic?
vast forum
it's realistic if you are willing to put in the gold
tropic ocean
or as yoppa said it will be somewhat expensive
quasi pewter
Just play sub
robust gull
I mean how bad is going into m+ as sin with ST build
gusty mirage
depends, how high do you want to go?
drifting cloud
really bad.
tropic ocean
very bad for any key tier
robust gull
So what did most of you do the beginning of this tier
gusty mirage
You'd be "fine" if you have strong AoE carries for anything between 10-15, esp on Tyran weeks. Anything less than a 10 doesn't really matter.
gusty mirage
^
arctic walrus
You realize your old gear isn’t gonna disappear
quasi pewter
Just use old azerite for first weeks m+
robust gull
Ah ok wasn’t sure how far behind I would be using current Azerite
tropic ocean
it wont cripple your char
gusty mirage
Most people will be using the current azerite for a while anyway
tropic ocean
i cleared raid with helm from first boss, bad shoulders, only good piece i had was behemoth chest
arctic walrus
Since you will need full azerite vendor yet again, you’re gonna have 450s for a long time
robust gull
Tbh this is my first time being around for the beginning of a tier in a very long time
gusty mirage
I used the engineering helm for a loooooong time
quasi pewter
I used it for 8/8
robust gull
So 445 Azerite is good for the first couple weeks
gusty mirage
yeah it'll be fine @robust gull 🙂
tropic ocean
idk where u raid at nitrogen but
tepid ridge
what's the english name of the flag we can drop in instances / step on? need to buy some
gusty mirage
you get them from a mop rep vendor
tropic ocean
@tepid ridge https://www.wowhead.com/item=89223/racing-flag
tropic ocean
@robust gull it will be essentially easier next raid if it stays like it is
like almost all raid pieces have good sin traits for raid
and good outlaw traits
deadshot/ace/wits
on almost every piece
tropic ocean
for sin all pieces have np/dd/raid trait combination
or ttk
so if u get some loot from raid u can use it for sin in raid
and just reforge for outlaw in m+
gusty mirage
or play the azerite lottery and try to get 3x EB 3x SS lmao
tropic ocean
if they add mechagon m+ azerite to vendor
u can just save for m+ sin azerite
as u get super good pieces from raid for raid, so most likely no need to roll 2 sets
mecha chest and shoulder have ss/eb afaik
gusty mirage
I think you're right
queen panther
that'd require good ideas to be had
strange python
could someone give me the simc line for the 445 engi helmet so i can put it into top gear easy?
quasi pewter
U can look for id on wowhead
versed bobcat
guys can you open adventure guide on PTR? doesnt work for me
polar tapir
is there anywhere to see what traits the engi helms will have?
quasi pewter
Engi helm is always same traits
inner sonnet
for M+ I'm aiming for 35% crit > ~10% haste, is it then mastery or versatility that tends to be better? (am running Strife minor for versa in combat)
tranquil moat
someone send me their armory if they currently run sin in keys higher than 10s?
candid jasper
what essences are people using this week?
I've been running blood, memory and strife
sly shoal
sacrificing a shaman for loyal it looks like
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
quasi pewter
Yea if you dont cheese with loyal there is no way ur getting good logs at sivarra/ashvane
Good as in #1
tough dome
for raid 3dd or 2dd + 1ttk?
austere scarab
what are the other 3?
tough dome
whatever works best w/ zaq helm blackwater chest and goraks
quasi pewter
Whatever sims best
tough dome
word
brave vector
If that’s the combination you have it’ll more than likely be dd x2 np, bbi, ttk, loyal
tough dome
yeah im just gonna sim ceph jacket/behemoth chest and see just curious from seeing different builds
quasi pewter
They rly close but generally behemoth sims higher with full loyal
vast forum
behemoth with full loyal is 100% better, cuz people might die during the fight and then you're a happy little rogue
shut garnet
kr guild almost one phasing it
drifting cloud
fish probably
quasi pewter
Ppl are 1 phasing ashvane
tropic ocean
thats already been done last week or 1 week ago by practice
wouldve probably been possible earlier as well
honestly did it too i think
shut garnet
i meant behemoth
strange python
do y'all with engi helmet use absorb-o-tron or auto-self-cauterizer?
quasi pewter
Absorb
arctic walrus
@quasi pewter are you engi/lw
quasi pewter
Ye
strange python
ty
quasi pewter
Jc too expensive
arctic walrus
I finally picked up both but idk what mats I should have/how to go about it
quick pulsar
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
spare flame
I feel like the new raid trinkets are weak and im really nervous im gonna have to grind shrine for that stupid haste trinket again
civic palm
Lemme look real fast, hmmmmmmmm;
Looks like a lot of good potential if things are "balanced".
aka work right.
and the numbers are not awful.
Hell even Void+Vita doesn't seem awful.
They're also mostly all proc based (not on-use) so there's a lot less awkwardness with current raid/M+ trinkets.
rigid mango
I also think plumage might be better than gcb anyways so
Not that kr is more pleasant.
shrewd lion
So im a completely new WoW player, leveling my first rogue, and i just reached mid lvl 50 yesterday, and i have some questions
I chose to go assassination rogue because ive played a ton of LoL where i play assassins, as well as pretty much every other game i ever played - if i could play a character based around stealth and surprise, i did - so it seemed fitting
But im having issues figuring this rogue class out... i feel like im doing significant less damage than my peers in for example BGs
modest tendon
At low levels, scaling is whack
shrewd lion
I try to stay behind people most of the time so they cant hit me, keep all rupture bleeds and garrote bleeds on, etc
But still im just bent over and taken by every single person i meet
modest tendon
All 3 rogues specs are shit until level 60? When you get vendetta and fan of knives
shrewd lion
Only people i can fight are priests lol
Oh that makes sense
I just gotta stick to it then
modest tendon
Ye don’t worry about it right now
shrewd lion
Howd i go about getting better gear?
modest tendon
I disagree sin is fine for levelling when it its full rotation
It’s garbage without vendetta and fok
No just continue to level up
As I said scaling between the specs is really weird at low level
So somethings are broken others are not
All 3 specs of rogues are shit until level 60 I think when they get their full rotation
rigid mango
Sin is always the worst throughout levelling but just play w/ever
modest tendon
All 3 specs do about the same damage at low level it’s fine
Just go subt and things melt
shrewd lion
Would i just need to do dungeons to lvl and get higher ilvl gear? Someone told me that higher ilvl is better than a bit more crit or haste
Also to lvl ofc
shrewd lion
I enjoy doing damage 😛
modest tendon
If you like bg’s level with bg’s if you like dungeons do dungeons
It becomes a very different game at max level so just don’t worry about that stuff right now
Although dungeons at low level are the best way to get gear
shrewd lion
This game is damn hard to understand for a complete newcomer haha
cobalt pelican
dungeons give the best gear at low level pretty much
shrewd lion
Just to get a good understanding on rogue: i need to stealth, apply garrotte to open, use the combo stacking one, rupture on four or five stacks, stack more, envenom, etc
modest tendon
Ye stealth garrote x3 then do normal rotation
No assassination is a slow spec, don’t disengage, just wait until you have enough energy for next ability
shrewd lion
Okay
modest tendon
At max level you will find yourself pooling energy quite a lot so you have burst windows
But assa is about the slowest spec in the game
Maybe
shrewd lion
Is sub faster for burst damage?
cobalt pelican
at low level i think so yea
at <50 you're lacking basically the primary energy income assassination uses to do damage
and you're going to feel like you're just hitting buttons that don't do much damage but also pressing them super infrequently
modest tendon
It’s shit until you get your full rotation as I said 😛
cobalt pelican
just try them all out if you can, i'm sure something will be enjoyable
modest tendon
Balancing between the 3 specs is surprisingly well balanced though
Sub feels pretty good at low level
shrewd lion
Hm, maybe i should try all 3 specs instead of going for assassination just because some guy said it was the strongest hahaha
cobalt pelican
if you're a slow leveler there's a bunch of times you'll get something that just naturally makes it feel better for leveling
modest tendon
Sub is considered the worst but it still has its place, namely in arena
shrewd lion
I pref bgs, but i do dungeons to lvl
cobalt pelican
like at level 45 you can take marked for death (or vigor) and sub with marked for death at low level usually plows things
shrewd lion
Arena isnt really my cup of tea yet
shrewd lion
Vigor is the one that generates alot of energy right?
cobalt pelican
it doesn't generate that much really
modest tendon
But with friends it can be great
cobalt pelican
but it makes your energy pool bigger to begin with
so when you open you're at 0 later
marked for death just gives you max combo points when you press it so you can envenom marked for death envenom for burst
shrewd lion
Oh so id be able to just insta garrote, mutilate, rupture, marked for death and then envenom?
Is it actually possible to kill someone before they react-ish?
modest tendon
No, marked gives you 5 CP instantly. so garrote, muti to 4-5 CP, rupture, envenom, marked, envenom
Or something like that
cobalt pelican
yeah that's what it does honey, payday drunk as fug or something
and i'm not sure
scaling at low elvels means the damage is very different in some level brackets to others
shrewd lion
Okay
cobalt pelican
you can swap between sub and assassination pretty freely at low level cause no azerite traits or anything
so just try them both out when they get new stuff
shrewd lion
I still listen ofc payday, happens for the best of us 😛
Well i gotta go guys, gf mad af because of sometjing that happened 2 months ago
Bloody hell
cobalt pelican
: )
modest tendon
Gl
rotund mural
is hidden blades with BOTE in m+ any good?
modest tendon
CT sims slightly better though?
rotund mural
yeah i just wanna stop using poison bomb in fortified weeks
modest tendon
Although Hidden blades is likely better than it sims in practice
rigid mango
Yeah CT is probably better, just wording it as to not get jumped by HB fanboys
rotund mural
i'll try both
modest tendon
There’s not much in it
rigid mango
CT is probably better and is more fun to play but harder.
pseudo hamlet
Is there any updated/good M+ guide for Assassination rogues?
rigid mango
Not really, Icyveins is updated and written by seli but dunno about how extensive the m+ part is
steady bay
how do you use inkpod for assassination? if you have the ashvane trinket also. do i save the crit buff and extract it right before the boss hits 30% or do i just use it when vendetta is up?
rigid mango
Ink is entirely ignored rotationally, just let it proc unless you can align your cd's to it without losing a cast
rigid mango
Ah, coral stuff's in the pins 😄
steady bay
if you have the inkpod also, should i save the crit buff from ashvane for the inkpod proc or use with vendetta
ah ok, thanks:o
rigid mango
Nah like I said, you ignore inkpod essentially, even w coral
shut garnet
inkpod isnt very good on assa anyways afaik
rigid mango
It is
molten folio
can i go after dslice sim or just go ST sim when it comes to m+? havnt played for a while so cant rly remember stats
rigid mango
still just after font and coral
Dslice sucks for sin
just get 35-40% crit and pump mastery, no haste
molten folio
like 0 haste if possible or still keep some? it should be decent at some point right
shut garnet
well, i guess you should have like 3-4/5%
if you're running zero OP traits
but priority is 40% crit and as much mastery as u can get
u get away with 35% crit if you're only running 1 eb i guess
tropic ocean
doubt u can get 0% haste
rigid mango
you get 8%~ from neck
tropic ocean
Im at 4% or smth now
tropic ocean
def not 8% from neck
shut garnet
yeah i have like 4% also and only haste i got is from sivara dagger
rigid mango
Swear I checked that ages ago
molten folio
got 3EB ,1 TTK,1Sob,1SS atm , not optimal but best i can do atm
tropic ocean
should reduce eb inc ss
molten folio
yea just cant atm :/
tropic ocean
Irontide and cephalohide? 😛
shut garnet
just run a lot of crit then i guess lul
tropic ocean
or w/e the bad eb pieces were
shut garnet
kind of
rigid mango
That's fine trait wise ye
tropic ocean
yeah with ur pieces def super high crit
and u wont really care about chaining too
molten folio
chaning? :p
shut garnet
chain pulls
tropic ocean
with 3 eb 1 ss
shut garnet
assa rogues are notorious for moaning at their tanks to stop chain pulling to get restealths off
tropic ocean
Restealth wont impact ur dmg as much
shut garnet
otherwise your 3ss lose giga value
rigid mango
The more SS traits the more you rely on restealths
tropic ocean
as its just spam eb
rigid mango
The better your setup also is (generally)
shut garnet
but if you're giga crit mongo fok build you dont rly care that mch about restealth
tropic ocean
Overall will be decent anyway
rigid mango
but with lower SS counts and more EB counts, you don't rely on restealth garrotes for damage
but more on fok
So restealths don't matter, aka chainpulling doesn't matter
molten folio
ah yea, noticed that when i had 3 SS , i lost soo much dmg if i didnt restealth
rigid mango
Not as much anyways, you can get away with it if you manage your bleeds properly
tropic ocean
with 3 ss 3 eb noticed restealthing every other pack outside vanish not much of a loss overall
Just in orio
Prio*
molten folio
xD
tropic ocean
WHY NOT OUTLAW
molten folio
btw how is versa?
rigid mango
good for your build
more so than mastery maybe
not far off anyways.
Vers is dope for 3 eb.
molten folio
aah nice cuz i got fk all mast gear 😦 got like alot of haste mast stuff...
tropic ocean
haste is kinda useless
tropic ocean
not even worth for bosses sadly
rigid mango
and then fill rest in with mast/vers doesn't matter too much
shut garnet
secretly haste is op so you can fulfil the "st monster" role that most people think assa is atm ( MEMEING BY THE WAY)
"lets take assarogue for boss dmg"
tropic ocean
idk ppl still think that
Sin probably worst melee on st in m+
even with vision minor
rigid mango
More like, very kill timer dependant
It's preeetty much on par with outlaw if you kill on time with vend
but every second outside of it is just dps lost for sin dps gained for outlaw
tropic ocean
should finally rework azerite
to not have to use 3 traits that are useless on st
While other melee dont need to make the choice
shut garnet
well, kinda hard given the nature of sin
rigid mango
yeh p much.
shut garnet
what would be the "keep your wits about you" equiv of sin
tropic ocean
make eb a talent
rigid mango
hard to make one
tropic ocean
And nerf traits
rigid mango
Since those traits are really really abusive
tropic ocean
To not overkill st
shut garnet
so replace hidden blades with eb?
tropic ocean
yeah
shut garnet
make scent of blood NV2.0 that reads "empowers your next FINISHER"
rigid mango
It'd be fine probs
shut garnet
:^)
tropic ocean
yeah
rigid mango
Or yeah, buff SoB
shut garnet
seli big brain ideas
rigid mango
Doubt it
shut garnet
nah
rigid mango
Hard doubt it
tropic ocean
its just like sin is no superior pick compared to other melee dps wise
rigid mango
It's not huge loss rn but with energy regen it'd be a lot better
shut garnet
going rup -> fan -> envenom -> repeat
shut garnet
well, it has the adv that it's a rogue spec
shut garnet
i still stand by outlaw v sin being comunity perception rather than actual massive gap in utility
rigid mango
It's +- sin's wet dream atm
tropic ocean
sin uis good no doubt just
molten folio
btw with 3 EB , does it overide mutilate on st?
rigid mango
nah
ashen solar
No
rigid mango
2t+
verbal mantle
well, you have to sacrifice some of your dps as a sin rogue
tropic ocean
We need to farm so much for it and make a decision
verbal mantle
in m+
rigid mango
Idk I'd say sin is better than fury but
verbal mantle
cc wise
rigid mango
Depends on tank
verbal mantle
ofc
shut garnet
yeah, it is kinda dogshit how the azerite works too
rigid mango
Meh
tropic ocean
That other melees dont
Cuz their traits are good for aoe and st
Like fury
Cshb good for everything
rigid mango
Atleast we get 1 new piece in chest slot(?) with ss eb
shut garnet
well fury does significantly worse than sin
on 5+ mob pulls
since theyre capped
no?
rigid mango
Yeah
rigid mango
but in that range they're higher than sin unless sin optimises for that target count
tropic ocean
And no dps loss on st
shut garnet
for reference, does capped at 5 mean it deals minimum damage to every target after 5, or does it actually mean it can legit JUST damage 5 at a time
tropic ocean
it has
As its only melee with unlimited aoe
U can just cleave 5 targets at a time
rigid mango
I mean if anything a simple thing to make sin much/ a bit stronger would be increasing fok count
eb count*
steep dome
another question for aoe does one take hidden blades for m+ and not crimson temp?
rigid mango
just slap on another target or two it can echo from
HB isn't far off CT but probably just worse
tropic ocean
never is a very wrong answer tho
shut garnet
im sure if you're doing 3eb 50% crit bullshit
hb might be better than CT in some dungeons
or pulls rather
but idk man mastery build just seems too solid
tropic ocean
if only comparing overall ct will win but
Hb also has a lot higher burst
As it ramps up between pulls
shut garnet
i dont wanna be that guy
rigid mango
Idk Ct wins overall but HB has some st gain
steep dome
was running some 19-20s with an ass rogue and they were using hb and pulling 100k on most trash pulls
rigid mango
Eh, HB isn't bad
shut garnet
and you'll end up doing way more ST damage with it too
rigid mango
CT is just probably better.
steep dome
kk thnx
shut garnet
since outlaw only needs 1 trait to go ham aoe and the rest are ST
whereas the hb build requires 3 eb, a lot of crit, and just unclear what you'd go secondary
rigid mango
What you'd go secondary?
tropic ocean
vers for sure
rigid mango
SS/sob
rigid mango
