assassination

[marble hemlock]

others dont

ask blizz why some do and some dont 🤷

since when does shrug emoji have orange jacket and not blue?

[vast forum]

it's male emoji

[marble hemlock]

🤷‍♂️

[vast forum]

you have 🤷‍♀️

🤷‍♂️

🤷

[marble hemlock]

weird

[vast forum]

i guess person is gender neutral

2019 every1

[marble hemlock]

wheres my shrugging attack helicopter?

[vast forum]

good idea for an emote

[shut garnet]

on the defensive trait ring for assa gear lol

[marble hemlock]

just gimme s2 raid azerite back ><

[vast forum]

s2 had some good pieces yea

1st boss helm was so nice

i still don't have an SS helm this season 😦

might DE half my offspec azerite just so i can roll an additional time before the zerg run

[rigid mango]

Just give me helm/chest w ss eb

[marble hemlock]

getting 2ss 2ttk 2eb from raid with 2 OP too

[rigid mango]

[marble hemlock]

was so nice

can old gear still tf after 8.3?

🤔

[cobalt pelican]

no written confirmation yet, ptr still has it forging to the 455 cap i think

[marble hemlock]

getting lucky 475 tf folly? :>

[rigid mango]

Weapon still 10 cap

If anything

[marble hemlock]

sssssssssssssh

forgot about that, i never get tf weapons

[rigid mango]

Socketed 455 follys tho

[marble hemlock]

still remember getting 10ilvl+socket proc on rastakhan dagger 2weeks before s2 ended

[rigid mango]

I also member you getting that

I got dagger first week vanilla 445

I've yet to get another one even vanilla, even when bonus rolling last like 5 weeks

Really great fun

[marble hemlock]

yeah

i hope

the dagger proc is really worth for st

so we dont have to worry about anything but the aoe corruption on boots :p

would be nice if the daggerproc carries our st in m+

and then we can focus on aoe for the rest of our gear 😛

[atomic willow]

i saw ppl talking bout 3ss 3 np next tier for raid?

[shut garnet]

given its on all pieces that come from the raid, most likely gamer

just a speculation though

[tropic ocean]

they have raid trait and dd too

and probably limited by the higher ilvl pieces too

[marble hemlock]

new raid trait seems solid

[shut garnet]

what traits do the 485 azerite pieces havr

from carapace and nzoth

arent they ss np as well

[vast forum]

SS INTENSIFIES

[hidden bay]

just play pvp and farm residuum

[rigid mango]

Afaik SS might just be pad in the end

Depends on what's needed each fight

[atomic willow]

traits for the 485... https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=174133/pauldrons-of-the-great-convergence&bonus=4822:1487&azerite-powers=4
https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=174136/tortured-fleshbeast-cuirass&bonus=4822:1487&azerite-powers=4

[rigid mango]

Dd np ttk np/heart

Ez pez

[shut garnet]

slithering loa bis head inc?

[marble hemlock]

mechagon azerite is gonna be nice

if it gets added to the vendor

[rigid mango]

That's what I've been saying but

We'll see

Dd np op from raid ofc too.

Helm, that is

Ultimatly bis will nearly be from raid 😄

[atomic willow]

i mean the rings are confirmed in the weekly chest so the mecha azerite should be in vendor

[shut garnet]

wait what

mechagon rings in weekly chest?

holy fuck

[rigid mango]

Mechagon is becoming m+?

So obv ye

[shut garnet]

but those rings are underlevel because theyre overstatted

[rigid mango]

Rings are just loot now

[shut garnet]

if you

make them normal ilvl

they'll just be giga

[rigid mango]

Yes.

They'll be BiS

[shut garnet]

does not seem very smart imo

[rigid mango]

Any mechagon farmers

[marble hemlock]

its like

arcway/cos 2piece set for some classes in legion

or ring+musicbox

from waycrest

its nice having chase items imo

member grinding eye of command every tier? 😄

[rigid mango]

I'm literally just gonna sit in mechagon after I've got full gear

[shut garnet]

imagine trying to do mechagon 20 on tyr

last boss

[rigid mango]

We'll see

It's not hardmode ofc so

[shut garnet]

oh

nevermind then

assa has some ok azerite from there

right

[marble hemlock]

ok?

ss+eb azerite :>

[rigid mango]

I think atleast?

Gimme more

Ss eb

Pieces please

[shut garnet]

this is giga for all rogue specs

lol

no op sadly but

[rigid mango]

Eh op nerfed

UF is still really good esp for m+ so

Idm.

[outer lotus]

Lcockwork heart is pretty bad right?

[winged nacelle]

wat item is that?

[shut garnet]

yeah

[rigid mango]

Yah but no one would use it

[outer lotus]

Its the mechagon normal mode azerite trait

[shut garnet]

it's ont he same row as EB

i dont think the choice is hard to make there

lul

[winged nacelle]

which one better

c

[rigid mango]

Huh

[winged nacelle]

compare to twist knife

[shut garnet]

EB vs TTK?

[rigid mango]

To what, heart?

[marble hemlock]

sadly

they still have shitty defensives 😄

[rigid mango]

Back to 0 rp

[atomic willow]

man it's gonna be ruff hte first couple weeks in M+ for sin considering the raid azerite huh?

[shut garnet]

well, you'll be playing the first couple of weeks with the azerite you currently have

[rigid mango]

Will be.

But with how good the raid azerite is

You dont need cepha + goraks for raid

So essentially you can roll only for m+

It'll come down to how pieces are valued with op etc, and how you intend on playing out the tier, when you'll reach which bosses etc.

[tropic ocean]

probably heart of darkness will be reduced

like bod trait

all secondaries +72is big

[marble hemlock]

my azerite strat next season is to just buy specific everywhere 😛

[rigid mango]

Really

[tropic ocean]

same after getting gorak tuls only for content end

😄

[outer lotus]

Its kinda the same in total as loyal to the end so it's fine i think

[rigid mango]

Meh goraks wont be needed

[tropic ocean]

but with raid azerite seeming to be very good gonna probably just roll m+ anddont bother for raid

[shut garnet]

gorak tul might still be BiS shoulder if ss np build is better

[tropic ocean]

@outer lotus ?

loyal gives mastery

this gives all stats

[rigid mango]

Still less total stats gained

On a piece 20 ilvs higher

[outer lotus]

Which is better for some specs and worse for others

[rigid mango]

Pretty lame tbh.

But probablt more than fine.

[tropic ocean]

@outer lotus we're talking sin

not others

and that will be pretty good

[outer lotus]

But why would they nerf it just cause it's a bit better for assa?

[rigid mango]

Huh

What are u on about man

[tropic ocean]

why did they nerf treachorous covenant

[shut garnet]

who said its better for assa

[rigid mango]

It'll be fine for a lot of classes

[outer lotus]

Ausgelebt did, or am i missing something

[rigid mango]

Bad for some.

[marble hemlock]

one trait shouldnt overshadow all others

its just bad trait-design

[tropic ocean]

idk what you're saying vaughn

[marble hemlock]

sadly blizz doesnt class balance and azerite balance at the same time, usually

[outer lotus]

Like why would they nerf it if it gives as much stats as a 445 trait

[tropic ocean]

if you cant see why this is better than loyal

then idk

[outer lotus]

Thats not the point though

[rigid mango]

I think it actually might give less total stats than loyal even at 490 hm

[cobalt pelican]

it's not better than loyal if you could get loyal at that ilvl though

[rigid mango]

V close to it maybe

[cobalt pelican]

that's the point

[shut garnet]

and loyal didnt get gutted

so

[cobalt pelican]

loyal gives more stats without the meme deaths included

[shut garnet]

[outer lotus]

Yea i think the trait is fair right now

[cobalt pelican]

spreading the stats across the board is kinda a gain just with how stats scale but

[rigid mango]

Loyal with deaths

[cobalt pelican]

it's not major

[shut garnet]

it might just be a filler just like loyal is now

only reason you reaaally take loyal for assa is just because there arent really better pieces

[rigid mango]

Eh

[tropic ocean]

????

[shut garnet]

you can play cepha instead of blackwater

[rigid mango]

Loyal is insane

Idk what u mean man

[shut garnet]

but its kinda the same thing dps wise isnt it?

[rigid mango]

Loyal is literally the best trait in the game

For sin

As a standalone trait

[tropic ocean]

and not only for sin as well

+u can abuse loyal af

[rigid mango]

It is better than 1st np

It's better than dd

Just sucks ttk is on it

If that was dd we'd be slamming

[tropic ocean]

the difference to new trait is

[rigid mango]

And that's not accounting for deaths

[tropic ocean]

classes that dont have as much loyal value

dont need to use it

as its not bound to how many people wear it

+for everyone with no high mastery weight its good anyway

[rigid mango]

Eh, it feels like it'll be a filler trait more than a loyal type deal

But we'll see

[tropic ocean]

its like treachorous without downside and better stats so

will see

[rigid mango]

It gives all stats but still quite a pisspoor amount for the ilvl tbh

[outer lotus]

TC would give about 750 agi at ilvl 485 though

It already is accounted for that there is no real downside imo

[cobalt pelican]

secondary stats kinda stupid valuable

compared to agoolity

[rigid mango]

Myeh.

[cobalt pelican]

it'll likely be v good, easiest to wait for profile sims for how good even if you can spitball it from current gear

[outer lotus]

Yea i think it will be a very decent trait for every spec but not the best for any except maybe outliers like bdk which is perfectly fine imo

[naive sphinx]

is focused azerite beam affected by master assassin?

im guessing no

[dark crag]

Classic

[rigid mango]

MA is whitelisted

[atomic willow]

2 of the 3 azerite that drop from mechagon have ss and eb on em for M+...the shoulders and chest...that's dope for the vendor ratio assuming they add them

[gusty mirage]

idk if I'll bother with non-specific pieces season 4, I still don't have 3x EB or 3x SS and I've rolled 4-5 random pieces per slot this season for my 3 sets (m+, raid and pvp) it's actually really really annoying maybe the mechagon azerite pieces will improve the odds

[tropic ocean]

@gusty mirage dw man i still dont have ss eb chest

[brave vector]

I’ve rolled a 450 raiment twice ;-;

No 450 cephalohide though

[atomic willow]

well with the addition of the mecha azerite gear there would be 3 shoulders with the ss eb combo 2 chest and 1 helm so i figure i'll random roll at least shoulders

[shut garnet]

will the azerite from mechagon be in the shop also then, if it becomes an m+ dg

more echoing ss pieces Pog?

[arctic walrus]

We can assume the boss drops will be added, however not so sure about the helm

[lethal lagoon]

hello, coming back to sin, last time played it it was in legion, do i follow blindly sims for st essence?

[arctic walrus]

ye

just don't bother simming wv at all

[lethal lagoon]

yeah i know unless the whole raid call for it :p i played a mage this tier sorry, forgot to mention that too

you mutilate from stealth on pull with master assassin?

[arctic walrus]

in the pins

[lethal lagoon]

ah okay

seems odd :p

[arctic socket]

Any luck from weekly disappointment chest?

[soft bluff]

Rdy to get my 3rd vers mastery belt in a row

[hidden bridge]

I got 355 socketed gloves with crit mastery

Could be worse

too bad my sin set has 410 daggers

cringe

[arctic socket]

Idk what I got hoping for something good

[hidden bridge]

gonna get a 455 socketed dagger

pog

[royal lantern]

cant you grab the pvp weapon for a 430?

[noble pilot]

Using BoTE on single target, do you delay each usage to line up with Vendetta Vanish or do you just the blast uses after first with next available TB?

[hidden bridge]

Yeah I could Tryan but I've been playing keys so I got my outlaw weapon first

[royal lantern]

well

spam that m+ for a 430 dagger then

[soft bluff]

Got a 440 crit/haste dagger my first week i got my rogue to 120, after that it’s been the same belt

[hidden bridge]

=]

Yea i've gotten the 440 vers mastery belt too

yikes

[arctic socket]

I’m stuck a with two socketed 445s 😭

[hidden bridge]

This rogue's been 120 for 2 resets and i've gotten heavy mastery both times

oof

[rigid mango]

@noble pilot pins my brother

[rotund lodge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[cunning scaffold]

What are folks using for fort week? 3x EB, 3x SS?

[rigid mango]

Yep.

[cunning scaffold]

and then for tyran, maybe 2x EB, 3x SS and a TK/NP?

I cant imagine going full ST would give anything terribly useful on tyran given the huge loss of trash dps

[old knot]

for 3xEB, and 3xSS, what is stronger, crit+mast with CT or crit+vers with PB?

Or a different combination not mentioned there

[cunning scaffold]

i just run as much crit as possible

like 37% crit and 8% haste or something lol

[old knot]

yes, but i see morning and selia go a lot of mastery next

so it's crit>mast>>>>>everything else

[arctic walrus]

without eb, mast > crit >> everything

with eb crit > mast >> everything

[old knot]

having 3xeb, 3xss, you go CT now?

[arctic walrus]

It wont change with ct or pb

[old knot]

oh okay

[arctic walrus]

ct for most dungeons, and pb for stuff like kr siege

[old knot]

thank you! i remember reading a while back that people were going crit>vers

and people rarely went CT

[cunning scaffold]

im not so sure CT is even worth casting compared to fan of knife spam

so i just go PB always

with EB, anyways

[arctic walrus]

ct is fine

[cunning scaffold]

ill have to give it a go

[strange python]

https://gyazo.com/530db4fdd289c958eda9349d44200de7

[strange python]

ello

[tropic ocean]

@old knot mastery is in both cases superior to versa (dps wise)

[vast forum]

versa could be better than mastery with 3xEB and 1xSS or smt

[pseudo hamlet]

Once again I need help from you guys... I need to know what should I buy for myself for the 200k Titan Residuum. My guild is farming right now EP Mythic up to Ashvane and I've already bought the BIS shoudlers(Gorak Tuls). Unfortunately I cannot sim a few things from the droptimizer and I don't know how to add other drops from the bosses to the "Top Gear" to check out which Azerite Drop could be an upgrade. Anyone could help me with that? Or at least could tell me what to do? Cheers

[modest tendon]

Link a sim?

[pseudo hamlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fZfcWgFFwyLNwkMPPxvgcF azerite helms for example

[modest tendon]

Cephalode chest maybe? Whatever you but will be such a minor upgrade

[pseudo hamlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ddnHgMigenvarB2zGxE7Ec

According to the sims Slitheting Loa is higher % upgrade than Cephalohide. But I'm wondering if another combination of mythic drops(from the first 4 bosses) would sim better with it. 🤔

[modest tendon]

Try and get 3 op’s perhaps?

[vast forum]

definitely helm of the slithering loa

fish chest is better than cephalohide anyway

and you're not clearing za'qul for the helm

[pseudo hamlet]

I've got Vest of Reverent Adoration(450ilvl) with TTK, NP, Gutripper

Yeah, Za'qul is a big no, at least for now.

[vast forum]

just keep killing the fish and hope for the chest

blackwater behemoth

[pseudo hamlet]

@vast forum it's better than this?

[vast forum]

yes

it's bis

if you have 4 ppl with loyal

in your raid

[pseudo hamlet]

Good to know, was using it for TTK/SS for M+ though because it wasn't simming that high, lol.

Thanks for clarification!

[vast forum]

also, if you do 2.1k+ rated pvp, you can get a chest like cephalohide, but it has resounding protection

and a helm like the za'qul one, but without resounding 😛

[pseudo hamlet]

Would be nice, though no plans for doing +2.1k PvP right now. ;P Will see 🙂

[dapper bough]

Why did no one tell me that undead female was BIS for assa !!

They kept the flip animation

[strange python]

i have outlaw traits can i still sim for the best drop azerite vendor with it calculating the assa traits?

does it take the best assassin traits on the pieces?

[tropic ocean]

just need to change ur spec to assassination

before u paste ur simc

[shut pasture]

which do I take for m+?

finally 3 fok 3 ss

[rigid mango]

Heed probs.

[marble hemlock]

blood siphon

[rose violet]

believe in the mastery

[mighty elm]

Has anyone looked into essences for next patch?

[royal lantern]

they are still in the game

and will increase our dps

[arctic socket]

No point in asking about essences until 8.3

[rigid mango]

Not sure what's happening yet, maybe bote major, maybe new things

[royal lantern]

🔮 i can see the future: 1-2 essence`s will be good, other will be bad, you wanna use the good ones

thank me later

[arctic socket]

Pff

[drifting cloud]

[arctic socket]

Conflict and strife major is best 10/10

If that happens...

[royal lantern]

ripple in space is sleeper op

mark my words

[rigid mango]

Mmhm.

@mighty elm I'll update you when I know more

[arctic socket]

BoTE seems to be in a nice position atm

But blizzard changes the gud stuff 😦 sub

[rigid mango]

Never been bad, more about if it can beat clf.

Might just come down to fight.

[drifting cloud]

tbh bote is "overrated"

I have a feeling wv might be better than bote

[rigid mango]

Oh yeah, WV too.

And new exec one

[mighty elm]

@rigid mango

[arctic socket]

We shall see

[drifting cloud]

but the other new ones might just be even better

[rigid mango]

There's a lot of potential, comes down to fight design

@mighty elm merry xmas

[mighty elm]

merry xmaas

[rigid mango]

You always take exec minor probs

Corr reduc'll make it needed probs.

[mighty elm]

Ive been slcakin on esseences, my ripple is rank 1 and crit one rank 1

[rigid mango]

you wont need the naz ones

Apart from lucid ofc

[mighty elm]

BUT WHAT IF?

[rigid mango]

Oof, we all noose ig

[cobalt pelican]

😺

[rigid mango]

Blue pp

[royal lantern]

ripple rank1 gang

[arctic socket]

Imagine having r3 ripple

[mighty elm]

almost looks like mine

[royal lantern]

cba going too mechagon and killing20 people lol

[drifting cloud]

imagine not having r4 ripple

[cobalt pelican]

blizzard can't prank me into buying pp before the price is lowered

i am making a stand

[rigid mango]

Meh I got it just from doing rep farm

[granite rampart]

got revered havent been back since

[rigid mango]

Same but then I did full paragon farm so I got the req shit

[lethal heart]

Not having all r4s

[vast forum]

no r4 PP after 10+ paragons

[quasi pewter]

Does any spec ever use ripple for anything?

[vast forum]

pvp

niche scenarios

[lethal heart]

Pvp SV uses minor

Other than that idk

Survival*

At least i have seen bicmex use ir

And he is r1 gamer

[quasi pewter]

Idk how you even get higher ripple ranks mine is green

[rigid mango]

cough wow gen

[quasi pewter]

World pvp or something right

[lethal heart]

I dont even remember how you get r2

Ik how you get r1/3/4

Ripple major tho is weird

You could maybe cheese stuff like orbs on ghuun with it?

Maybe?

Probably useless xd

[royal lantern]

r2 is 20player kills in naz and mechagon

and like i said, cba going too mechagon lol

[quasi pewter]

Havent been to mechagon since august

[brave vector]

Worth dropping BBI for another echoing in m+ or would y’all alternate based on week?

[marble hemlock]

id play the bbi in siege and kr

maybe Tyra temple

but eb > all in the current meta

[brave vector]

Right now I can run either ssx3 BBI, Ttk, eb

Or ssx3 ebx2 ttk

[marble hemlock]

(if you care about pumping aoe, which is the only thing we really excel at)

definitely 2eb then

the ttk bbi eb you can run in those lowtrash dungeons like siege or kr

ideally youd even swap the last eb out for 1np or 2nd ttk in those

[brave vector]

So no EB at all in siege/kr?

[marble hemlock]

nah

siege is mostly spotter killing shit

and the shit it doesnt kill is prio dmg

[brave vector]

Interesting

[marble hemlock]

and early into the dngeon its a bunch of low-hp mobs that die to cleave anyway, so you try to optimize your dmg on the highhp targets like marksman, wavetenders, halberds

so in a pack with halberd, marksmen, 6footmen you really only wanna look at how to improve damage on those 2 mobs

[brave vector]

So i can swap EB to a NP with my BBI set, in those cases would you use VoP minor?

[marble hemlock]

and ignore the footmen dmg optimization

ye

i always play vop these days

[brave vector]

Over CnS

[marble hemlock]

makes it easier to time cds on bosses too and gives you a solid second burst window even on shorter fortified fights

and 3rd vendetta+bote on high Tyra ones

only dungeon where i feel cns might have some value is freehold imo

cause theres just sooo much trash

but yeah, for kr/siege i typically run 3ss 1bbi 1np 1ttk

if youre really low on aoe in your grp, you can play 1eb instead of 1bbi in KR, to help with blobs

[arctic walrus]

So seli when running vision do you aim to have vend and bote up for bosses but not necessarily vanish? So your 2nd set of cds will be vend/bote/vanish?

[brave vector]

Thanks for the tips seli appreciate it

[lethal heart]

@marble hemlock.

[marble hemlock]

yeah vel

vanish to use freely and just use it with 2nd vendetta+bote at 1:30

and then if you get third, i usually only use vendetta+coral, hold bote for trash

cause boss is almost dead by that time anyway

depends a bit on what trash pull comes up after if i use 3rd bote on trash or not

[lethal lagoon]

hello, if use razor coral and font of power, do they share cd?

[rough yarrow]

20 sec cd on each other

[obtuse cedar]

20*

When you use 1 the other one gets put on a 20sec cooldown

[lethal lagoon]

rip

not that usefull

[obtuse cedar]

You still use both tho

In a st raiding environnement

[lethal lagoon]

well i got a dice that is 700 dps away

[obtuse cedar]

700 is a lot xD

Kinda tricky to get used to the double on use but it's much better than anything else atm

[lethal lagoon]

well you font like 30 sec before the vendetta to have your coral up for it?

34sec to be exact

[obtuse cedar]

I'd recommend reading the post in #tc-updates about it if you want to know how to optimize it's usage

But to break it down more here : font approx 6 sec before pull and coral as soon as ready

Then font when ready and roughly 11/14 sec after press vendetta and fit your MA window as soon as coral is ready

[lethal lagoon]

just read it, thx^^'

[obtuse cedar]

^ for 2nd vendetta that is

[bright tusk]

For m+
3x EB & 3x SS
or
2x EN, 2x SS, 1x Twist the knife, 1x Swirling Sand
?

[ashen solar]

3 eb 3 ss

Except for td, sob, and kr

[atomic willow]

merry christmas and happy holidays Ravenholdt

[valid spoke]

Do you go Leatherworking + JC or Leatherworking Engi for early 8.3?

[drifting cloud]

lw engi most likely

with mecha in m+ and JC being the most expensive proff by far its a pretty hard sell

[valid spoke]

JC is hella cheap

If oyu just buy early on

[dark crag]

The pins have the correct font use. Coral after ma window is desired because with bbi + base crit + ma (maybe blood) you reach 100% easily and coral for the rest of tb and vendetta is better

[atomic willow]

what sin traits are on the eng azerite helm?

[shy dust]

DD

[atomic willow]

feel like i remember them not being to good

[shy dust]

It’s got DD/engineer azerite/OP

[dark crag]

They are ok for assa

Also they have op

Only zaqul helm beat it for me

[drifting cloud]

loa and maybe leviathan if you have 0 np probably also beat it

[dark crag]

Had 0 np and engi came out a bit ahead

[storm lodge]

hey all, quick question about assassination rogue trinkets

when sims recommend razor coral and inkpod, do they assume that we're stacking razor corals until 31% and popping it for a inkpod crit? or do they assume we're using it each time with vendetta ?

[civic palm]

If you are using Raidbots there should be an output by which you can see what is pressed when, including cooldowns/trinkets/etc.

[rigid mango]

You use coral with vend as per usual.

[storm lodge]

ah ty! will check that out

[strange python]

how does vendetta and tb fit into the aoe opener in the pins (without ct)?

[royal lantern]

why would you use vendetta or TB if you wanna do mongo aoe?

[strange python]

i guess i dont then

[royal lantern]

you use vendetta/tb for important targets that need too die fast/bosses etc....

you gain almost nothing by using them if you just wanna go full aoe too clear stuff

[robust gull]

Can we have a serious discussion

[rigid mango]

No.

[robust gull]

For the new raid. Are there certain things that sin rogues bring that other melee don’t? Why would you want a sin rogue over a dh or fury war or even frost dk

[rigid mango]

Because sin does more boss damage than all of them

Bosses need to die

Sin is less punishing for downtime

Sin has better utility

[robust gull]

I mean do they bring THAT much more boss damage. And they don’t have any raid utility

[rigid mango]

Yes.

Yes they do.

[robust gull]

Better utility?

[rigid mango]

Cloak is still cloak, evasion still evasion

You can't compare them to 1st dh/warr in the group

That's obv not a fair comparison

Sin will do what sin always does.

Cleave will be capped at X amount needed per fight most likely, in a lot of scenarios like orgo/zaq, where you dont need more than killing the adds

And the rest of the damage? Boss. Who does that best of all melee? Sin.

If you need cleave, sin is still fine, if not you still have outlaw.

Sin is still ridic consistant and great for prog.

[robust gull]

So if melee looks to be strong for this next tier, you would take a second rogue over a second dh or warrior

[rigid mango]

Depends on the fight and your raid comp doesn't it?

🔮 my dude

[robust gull]

True

I’m just trying to figure which melee I want to focus on. I enjoy fury havoc and sin just about equally and have them all at the same lvl...just trying to figure out which one will potentially be in demand more

I guess I’ll just try to keep them all competitive and see which one ends up being more relevant

[rigid mango]

Whatever you prefer man

Unless you're raiding at a world 100+ either will be more than fine

[strange python]

lol

[tropic ocean]

if u already have dh

sin is very solid choice

cuz u can cheese so much things

[robust gull]

Doesn’t netherwalk bring the same as cloak? What can sin rogue cheese in the next raid

[tropic ocean]

everything that is magic dmg

[robust gull]

So can dh, or am I missing something

[tropic ocean]

no

but sin just has more burst dmg

which often is needed during progression

u pretty much only bring 1 dh for most part for magic debuff

[strange python]

Assassin is just a nice solid choice

[tropic ocean]

I mean idk what rank u raid at so probably just play what you enjoy most

but for stacking sin def a more progress oriented choice compared to dh

you are also very tanky with feint cloak vial

[robust gull]

Well I’m looking to potentially move up to a guild who is higher than my current, and just wondering if one melee will stand out more than the others

I mean I’m sure it’s just too early to tell

[snow storm]

sin will probably scale nicely with the crit damage corruption

[robust gull]

The thing about rogue is they just don’t really bring any raid wide utility like dh and warrior...I mean they obviously have a lot of self utility

[snow storm]

true, but that raid utility only holds for the first dh or warrior

[robust gull]

Eh sort of. Darkness and rallying can have multiple uses

Also wondering if the next raid is add heavy...but maybe that is just for the early/mid bosss

[shut pasture]

@rigid mango I think you're overestimating the singletarget damage

@robust gull i've been in the same spot as you and it's pretty hard to find a guild that doesn't have a warrior/dh already

most of htem would rather take a 2nd rogue over 2nd buff slave

[robust gull]

I dunno that just seems a little weird to me since rogues don’t bring raid utility when dh and warrior do

[shut pasture]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it just happend

my new guild has 2 retri

0 warriors

[rigid mango]

@shut pasture no

I'm not.

[robust gull]

Looking on wowprogess boss damage sin is 88 and havoc and fury are 85

Not a HUGE difference

[drifting cloud]

you overeastimate their utility

most guilds would still only run 1 offs

[robust gull]

Overestimate which utility

[drifting cloud]

dh and warr

[robust gull]

But what utility does rogue bring

[real bay]

sin does better damage and has better utility, so

[rigid mango]

Cloak, evasion, feint

[robust gull]

Wait how does rogue have better utility

[rigid mango]

Step

[robust gull]

When does evasion play a part?

[drifting cloud]

just because youre a warr or a dh doesnt guarantee you a raid spot or whatever youre trying to accomplish

[shut pasture]

when you need to soak

[royal lantern]

its rare, but sometimes evasion can cheese stuff

[drifting cloud]

because most guilds already have 1 off of those, and theyre not going to go out and recruit 3 dhs

[real bay]

people wouldnt bring a DH if it wasnt a buff slave

[robust gull]

Dh damage is really solid..I don’t know why I would want 2 rogue over 2 dh

[drifting cloud]

because meta is 4min

[robust gull]

Rogue has very nice individual utility but no raid wide utility

[rigid mango]

Sin has all their damage packed into a 20 sec window

It's so consistant

It's stupid.

Rotation isn't destroyed by downtime

[drifting cloud]

if you have 0 of both you take dh, if you have 1 of both youd usually take a rogue

[rigid mango]

You can survive a lot of stuff not all can.

[robust gull]

Netherwalk is stronger than both evasion and cloak

[drifting cloud]

I mean why do you even ask if your mind is already made up

[shut pasture]

a balanced comp doesn't stack melee

it stacks ranged

like shadow/warlocks

[drifting cloud]

feel free to look at top10 kills for last 2xpacs find me a boss where people ran more than 1 dh

[robust gull]

I’m just seeing he argument from the other side

[shut pasture]

it's the ranged that kill bosses

not the melee

the melee apes are there to do damage

[rigid mango]

Bruh.

[shut pasture]

ranged are there to do mechanics

[rigid mango]

Melee looking real good

[shut pasture]

I mean as a melee this tier

legit 0 mechanics

just hit boss

[rigid mango]

Yeah so what

[robust gull]

My rogue is my most geared/progressed but I just can’t see a logical reason why you would stack rogue over dh

[drifting cloud]

we just told you

go read it again

[shut pasture]

DH doesn't have much utility to stack

[arctic walrus]

Shorter immunity, more single target

[shut pasture]

netherwalk meta immunity darkness

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[arctic walrus]

A dh is only good for his debuff

[robust gull]

Rogue has zero raid utility, how can dh not have more utility to stack

[shut pasture]

I mean this tier sure

one place it might be used is soaking on orgozoa

[robust gull]

V

Brb

[rigid mango]

Just play whatever you're better at

You seem biased to not rogue

[shut pasture]

how can you be bad

on havoc

legit tell me

[rigid mango]

Play that then, wont matter. if you're asking this you probably dont play at the level where it doesn't matte

[shut pasture]

yeah I only play at around wr 150

so it doesnt matter

I just hit boss

[snow storm]

i'm not into progression raiding, but looking at rankings havoc seems competitive or even above rogue in dps

[shut pasture]

[rigid mango]

Fuck off to #wow-general if you're asking this

And I'm not talking to you either way.

[shut pasture]

[rigid mango]

And if you're just talking overall on logs @snow storm yeah, sin does boss damage bur doesn't have on demand cleave to pad

[snow storm]

ah yeah, switching to single target bosses shows sin does better

[rigid mango]

Regardless, sin is really just an amazing progress spec like prev mentioned.

It's not about just logging

[snow storm]

yeah but i'm just trying to estimate how big the dps difference is, since that's mostly what rogues have to offer over dh

[robust gull]

That’s the thing

Looking at boss damage the difference isn’t THAT great

And dh and warrior have raid wide utility and rogue doesn’t. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not “convinced” either way that one spec is better than the other

[rigid mango]

Pls.

[robust gull]

I haven’t done any play testing on PTR

[rigid mango]

I've said it before, prog consistancy.

[robust gull]

That is why I’m here asking questions. To glean information from people who may have extensive PTR testing and playing from world 100 and better

[rigid mango]

Sin doesn't lose from downtime aka mechanics, it has all of its damage in a 20 sec window

[robust gull]

I don’t know if there are mechanics in the new raid that cloak can really help out the raid or really help or individual dps

[snow storm]

there probably are

[marble hemlock]

historically, based on the last 3tiers

its more likely that cloak doesnt work where other immunities do work

cuz blizz tends to whitelist cloak/feint these days

with no consistency whatsoever

[robust gull]

Like netherwalk soaking on orgo is

Orgozoa

[marble hemlock]

yeah

like, the fact that hunters/rogues cant solosoak amniotic

but pallies/mage/dh can

🤔

[robust gull]

That’s kind of what I’m getting at

[royal lantern]

dont you like it that you can`t cloak stuff that does magical dmg, but you can soak stuff that does physical according too the journal

[rigid mango]

Amniotic is physical for some reason idk

Can soak smash in p2 tho

[royal lantern]

thats what i mean

and, atleast when the raid was new, the journal said the smash was physical

dunno if they changed it

[rigid mango]

In the end, just play what you pref. The choice doesn't matter most likely.

[royal lantern]

^

spec/race/class doesnt matter for like 99%

for most raid groups the only thing that matters is just "are you ranged or melee"

[rigid mango]

People recruit both, people want both. Historically I can't remember scenarios needing dh stacking, but there's consistantly several rogues around.

[vestal wren]

next raid looks to be decent for melees

and dh was tuned very well during bfa

[crisp hollow]

im seeing a lot of stat proc trinkets for sin in m+, is there a reason they’d be more desirable than the usuals like spyglass/dice/coral(?)/inkpod?

[rigid mango]

Wdym

Spyglass coral is dope.

[strange python]

Guys I wanna ask some input about my rogue. I'm still new player and I play assa and i like it alot, im used to it. I found out that assa needs different gear stats, essence, azerite traits for aoe and single target. Now i feel like thats too much for me to handle. Today i did my first mythic +0 and heared that outlaw doesn't have such problems. My question is , is that all true ?

[rigid mango]

Yes.

Sin needs diff sets stats on items and azerite wise

And essences to an extent, the m+ ones are used for raiding in some scenarios too though.

Outlaw uses same for both, apart from essences.

[strange python]

Thing is im really used to assa

got rank 2 lucid rank 1 world vein and rank 3 cruci atm only

rank 2 world vein

[royal lantern]

then just play it? nobody is stopping you from doing it

[drifting cloud]

outside of highend raiding outlaw is better, you should atleast leave your options opened

[royal lantern]

patch is comming in ~2 1/2 weeks

[strange python]

should i have diffrent gear sets

[royal lantern]

and @drifting cloud what else is in the game for highend gameplay EXCEPT raiding and m+ lol?

[snow storm]

you'll want blood of the enemy essence either way, you get it from the BG honor achievement

[rigid mango]

No need for bote if u play otl.

[strange python]

@snow storm ye checked it today seems i gotta farm 30k honor dunno how long it will take

[rigid mango]

But u do need it for sin.

[royal lantern]

outlaw is slightly better for m+, sin is better for raiding, sin is more effort if you wanna play it cus you need different gearsets for raiding/m+(raiding is more haste/simming yourself, m+ is crit/mastery stacking)

and different azerite stuff ofc

[strange python]

but in mythic + do u switch set for bosses as well or u rock the normal aoe set

[royal lantern]

you cant switch gear in m+ anymore

[rigid mango]

Can't during m+.

[royal lantern]

that was a legion thing and got removed cus it was busted

[rigid mango]

Locked to 1 set from start 2 finish.

[strange python]

About azerite traits , when u get new piece and start choosing traits, the options u get are they random or every gear has preset options

[drifting cloud]

preset

[royal lantern]

azerite is NOT random

there are people that say that shit, but its not true, you can check every single azerite piece for traits in your journal

[strange python]

okay so then i gotta make list which pieces i need

@royal lantern Do you switch full set or just azerite pieces for m+/raids

[royal lantern]

tbh, dont sweat too much about it anymore, 8.3 is comming in 19/20 days

[strange python]

What will change about it

[rigid mango]

All of it buddy

[royal lantern]

new gear lvl`s

[rigid mango]

P much

[royal lantern]

^

and ye, your raidgear tends too be more haste focused(atleast from my expirience) and haste is almost worthless in m+, where you want high crit and mastery for aoe AND different azerite traits

[strange python]

Okay everyone has been really helpful really, but about new patch , fact remains that we will still need diffrent sets ? or that is still unknown

[royal lantern]

new patch is basicly a gear reset for everyone, sooooo.....get yourself too a decent lvl, and then you can just spam m+/raid when the patch is out and start making sets

[strange python]

got 409 ilvl atm 😄

[royal lantern]

aka:simming for raid gear, PROBABLY hoarding crit/mastery gear for m+(its always possible that those stats can change, but tbh i doubt it)

and ofc try too be lucky with azerite drops so that you dont need too reforge

[strange python]

i c, but Tryan what azerite rolls u use for aoe/raids

[royal lantern]

raid is always a "sim what you have and choose the best options" thing

will probably be 1xNP and then stack DD with good secondary traits again

m+ is EB and SS stacking right now

[strange python]

okay got it , thanks alot man u really know ur stuff 😄

[arctic socket]

My traits on my gear is so messed up🤦‍♂️

[tropic ocean]

damn i missed a good convo

need to play less discord more

[robust gull]

Which convo? Which melee to play for the next xpac?

[tropic ocean]

Yeah

it went better than expected

[robust gull]

What are your opinions, out of the melee if you were to get a second of one class which would it be and why?

[drowsy snow]

next xpac or next tier?

[robust gull]

Next tier

[rigid mango]

Cleave good if u need (fury, fdk, dh, otl), sin always good unless cleave is specifically needed i.e orgo.

[pallid jay]

if I exclusively do M+ and bgs/arenas, it's ok to just gem/enchant for crit/mast right?

[rigid mango]

Sin is more adaptable, other specs fall short in overall prog consistancy.

If you play pvp you want no crit

If you do m+, you wann all dem crits.

[pallid jay]

I looked at some top M+ players and they all gem/enchant up till like 30-40% crit then swap to mast

[rigid mango]

Yep, 35-40% p much.

[pallid jay]

So it's safe to do deadly/mast weapon enchants?

[rigid mango]

If you do pvp a lot, no

Crit is atrocious there 😄

[pallid jay]

Not serious on the pvp bit, just bg grinding for bote

Also I haven't finished the island exp part for it

[harsh sphinx]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

I get stuck with one EB trait for the rest of the patch. RNG f me over. I really cant go outlaw either as folleys never drop ever.. I guess i have to go for the specific pieces next patch

[lapis adder]

Raider.io seems to be down, at least for me. What Talents should I use for M+, at least for this Fortified week.

[cobalt pelican]

same as always really, 2212321 or 2212323

[lapis adder]

What's the benefit of CT over Poison Bomb.

[cobalt pelican]

scales better to big long sustained aoe pulls at the cost of damage to specifics targets like bosses

if you're baby pulling, doing a dungeon with low mob count or pugging low keys go for pb probably

if not play ct, do whatever it won't really make a massive difference and you'll learn a lot by feeling it out yourself

[lapis adder]

Prob won't be doing big pulls with Bolstering. So I'll give PB a try, thanks.

[nimble skiff]

How's the azerite pieces looking in nyalotha for ST?

[cobalt pelican]

go0od

[crisp hollow]

whats the minimum number of targets to CT on?

will the nyalotha raid trait be a mandatory inclusion like loyal is? Could see bis ST being DD+heart head, the nzoth shoulders for NP+DD, and cephalopod chest if 10 additional ilvl doesn't make up for running 2 NP

[royal lantern]

i think nobody in this discord was able too do timetravle and check the future too see how stuff will work out

[crisp hollow]

its pretty easy to predict strong traits and look at numbers lol

[brave vector]

Yeah no one knows what traits will be worth, about CT it’s worth using on 2 targets as long as you get the full bleed duration

[royal lantern]

people thought loyal is bad

for the first month or something like that lol

[crisp hollow]

people figured out loyal the second there was a sim api for it idk what you're talking about lol

[obtuse cedar]

Numbers can change everything

So we dont know yet

[royal lantern]

eh,i remember loyal beeing a big meme for quite some time until more people said" hey the trait is good when you have 5 peeps with it, use it"

and what nimp said

stuff can change

nobody knows yet

[crisp hollow]

hopefully heart trait is good then, our nzoth pieces kinda suck if it isn't

unless they unnerf the perfection interaction with NP lol

[strange python]

what perfection interaction?

[crisp hollow]

something about visions major and big vendetta dot uptime

can't remember the details but i do recall it got changed

[vast forum]

NP is good regardless of VoP

VoP is garbage anyway and 3x NP won't make it good

[crisp hollow]

i dont think there's value in more than 1 NP

well, at least compared to having a DD/TTK in that spot

[strange python]

3 ss and 1 EB, or 2 SS and 2 EB?

[crisp hollow]

3 and 3 :^)

[strange python]

but but

that those are my alternatives

[quasi pewter]

3ss 1eb

[strange python]

aight

[storm lodge]

current traits are 3np. 2dd, 1twist - sim suggesting switching one of the NP to blightborne infusion for a 200 dps increase - i simmed 6min patchwerk with raidbuffs - im wondering if i lose any consistency because of the crit proc from blightborne..like, would it go to waste if im not near the boss for the full duration that it procs etc... thoughts ?

[rigid mango]

Bbi is dope.

[storm lodge]

kk!

[strange python]

should i use focusing iris rank 1 for mythic + even tho i got lucid rank 3

lucid rank 2*

[rigid mango]

As a major iris is bis until blood.

[strange python]

if i go raid i switch to lucid right until i get condensed?

[untold current]

sim it bro

[rigid mango]

Raid is just sim shit ye

[pallid jay]

Is iris 2 better or blood 1 better for m+?

[arctic walrus]

you don't use blood unless rank 3

so yes

[pallid jay]

ok ty

[halcyon zealot]

Azerokk's Resonating Heart trink good for anything? just got a 455

[arctic walrus]

sim for st/raid

m+ it's probably fine

would say it probably doesn't outsim at minimum a 430 coral/font

[halcyon zealot]

yeah it doesnt outsim those 2 for raid, was just wondering for M+ with maybe a spy glass

[arctic walrus]

depends on your other trinkets at that point

[storm lodge]

question around the EP raid - when im fully specced/traited for single target as assassination, whats the optimal way to deal with ads? they dont live long enough for bleeds, so wondering how to deal with ads on radiance, orgazoa, zaqul - should i just focus down one of them?

[cobalt pelican]

you kinda just.. don't

[arctic walrus]

You don’t switch at all

[royal lantern]

sin strenght is high st dmg, if you dont need dmg on adds, you just blast the boss

[cobalt pelican]

you can rupture orgo ads if you feel like it, it's a st gain very slightly

[royal lantern]

if you need more dmg on adds, dunno, tell your dh too eyebeam harder

[storm lodge]

ah i see

so my main utility is boss damage so unless ads dont have enough dmg i focus on the boss ?

yeah i guess one of you already said that

thanks guys

[arctic walrus]

If adds dont have enough damage you’d be outlaw

[royal lantern]

^

99%of all raidgroups lack boss dmg

not dmg on adds

cus most of the time you simply have enough dmg for adds if people actually do what they are told too do

[pearl pagoda]

anyone on capable of looking at a log?

also what is that website that looks at your log and tells you the basics of what you did wrong

[strange python]

Wowanalyzer

[arctic walrus]

And it’s not good for sin

[strange python]

No Idea If its Update for sin

[arctic walrus]

Link your logs here and I’ll look through

[strange python]

Some Specs its okay, for some its not Well maintained

[pearl pagoda]

what would be the best log to link

i have good logs on the first 4 or 5

sivara log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7TLFa4vHzBGrND2k#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=3

[cobalt pelican]

generally pretty ok; the most glaring things are like

your rupture fell 4 times throughout the course of the fight and not like 0.2 sec drops

and a massive break between tbs from 1:23 to 2:06

it's leading into your vend window which i suppose is why you held but it's just not worth for that long, you could fire tb, font and tb would be ready by coral time

and kinda minor but you should get out of the habit of saving 2nd pot for vend on bosses like sivara because it's entirely possible you cut it short (you lost 5sec here so not that impactful rly but it could easily be ~20sec)

[arctic walrus]

Your 2nd set of cds are off. Read up in pins or #tc-updates about coral/font. However it you simply want to delay use font, then 14s later (good gauge to check is coral will be 6s cd) vendetta. Then pair vanish/tb/coral when it comes up

also your energy pooling is too too much

You're getting nearly full energy for tb windows, which is just unnecessary. Go for around 50-75

stop using tb in your MA window (right after vanish). Those should look like tb -> vanish -> env

[harsh sphinx]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[pearl pagoda]

never thought about that

i do really tie vendetta/essence/vanish together too much

[vast forum]

pooling to almost full before TB is fine as long as you don't overcap

[pearl pagoda]

if i dont get 4 points on first mutilate what am i doing

inb4 pins

i assume i mutilat again, rupture, garrote and mutilate to 4 cp?

[arctic walrus]

Yes. And yes in pins

[pearl pagoda]

if i only pool 70 energy for tb windows, i only get 2 envenoms

if i pool to about 110+ ill get 3, wouldnt that be better overall?

[rigid mango]

Pooling p much doesn't matter.

Smol diff.

[vast forum]

pooling will never reduce your dps if you don't overcap tho

[pearl pagoda]

thats what ive been told with tb windows.

[vast forum]

there's no "optimal" amount of energy to pool

other than 169

but that's very difficult to aim for

[pearl pagoda]

ill need to find out how to keep rupture up just a bit more. i do drop it sometimes to squeeze an evenom out in a vendetta or TB window

[vast forum]

you can refresh rupture just before TB if it has <9-10 sec remaining

[rigid mango]

Yes there's no reason not to pool, no does it impact anything greatly.

Smol gain, not big deal.

[worldly fable]

!essences

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[bronze veldt]

Hello! Question, i recently got another dagger specifically Heart-piercing Stalactite with a socket. 430 ilvl, i already had Sivara's Slitherblade 430 without socket in my MH. Does sockets make the "weapon" more powerful? meaning, should i use the socketed one in my main hand or does it matter? Same damage otherwise on them

[cobalt pelican]

where the socket is doesn't matter

[bronze veldt]

ok thanks

[strange python]

what level does the questline open for the rogue mount?

im at 102 atm

[obtuse cedar]

110 since it's broken shore stuff

[strange python]

ahh okay ty

[worldly fable]

How long does it take to get the class mount?

Is it gated behind any reps?

Is this even the correct channel to ask?

[vestal wren]

takes a bit hence you need to do the questline for it

and #wow-general would be the right channel

[exotic rose]

Does assa mastery increase envenom damage?

[tropic ocean]

yes

[strange python]

for mythic + , focusing iris major - lucid minor - purification minor is good?

[verbal mantle]

do you have Blood of the Ennemy r3 ?

[strange python]

dont even have rank 1

[tropic ocean]

grind r3

pp is not really good

[verbal mantle]

if you dont have blood r3 then it's iris i guess
but you should definetly farm blood r3

major

and lucid + vop minor

[strange python]

got it

thanks

[arctic walrus]

Does ct damage scale with cp or is it like rupture

nvm think it's like rupture if I did the math right

[marble hemlock]

dmg per tick doesnt change

initial dmg does

so its better to use 5cp CTs

marginally

[arctic walrus]

when you're fok spamming do you reapply at all?

[marble hemlock]

ct? yeah

[arctic walrus]

kk ty

[torpid cradle]

How many targets to start using fan of knives in m+

[cobalt pelican]

2 if you're using eb and don't care how the damage is distributed

[torpid cradle]

Aight tt

Ty

is there a bleed wa like the one Seliathan uses?

[arctic walrus]

can probably just ask him for his? lol

[torpid cradle]

hm

[rigid mango]

Just ask him in his stream

[strange python]

Hey, could anyone help me with a macro? i want the Shadowstep + kick macro, and with mouseover, is that possible?

i have something like #showtooltip Paso de las sombras
/cast [target=mouseover,exists] Paso de las sombras
/cast Paso de las sombras
/cast Patada

[shut garnet]

you could set that macro for focused

dunno about mouseover

[strange python]

but i have to press 2 times

yeah i want with mouseover but im not very good with macros

[drifting cloud]

well it wont work with only 1 press

I mean it does, but since youre out of range for kick nothing happens I assume so thats why you have to press it again

[sweet rampart]

Are all 3 rogue specs competitive in eternal palace? Or is one standing out a bit more?

[cobalt pelican]

asassination > outlaw >> sub, all are ''''''''viable''''''''''''

[sweet rampart]

I assume some more aoe fights are better for outlaw? How do you guys manage? Do you switch specs each fights and change gear sets? Or just roll with one spec the entire raid? Sorry haven't played in a long time

[shut garnet]

it depends whether you need prio damage or not

sin pulls out more prio dmg on orgozoa than outlaw

but less overall damage

[ashen solar]

well

[shut garnet]

obviously it’s build dependant

[ashen solar]

sub would be better on orgo than assa if you need prio damage

[shut garnet]

i mean, maybe

[ashen solar]

basically the only fight sub shines in

sub has highest boss dps there of the three specs iirc

[shut garnet]

i doubt anyone actually switched to sub specifically to that on prog

[ashen solar]

not early prog

[shut garnet]

so i doubt the prio dmg diff between sub and assa on that fight is marginal

but if you wanted to giga minmax i guess you can play sub

[sweet rampart]

Most you guys go back and forth between sin and outlaw?

[shut garnet]

but is it worth learning a new spec thats otherwise useless to minmax a fight? probably not

[ashen solar]

[shut garnet]

it’s fine to play assassination on every boss in TEP

great prio damage

you should only switch if you’re “required” to

[arctic socket]

There’s really no boss where you have to switch

You can play sin every boss if you wanted 🤷‍♂️

Spec changing only really matters in hardcore progression if you’re not doing that just play what you enjoy kappa

[sweet rampart]

Think big changes are going to come with 8.3? I haven't kept up with what logs are looking like on PTR

[ashen solar]

🔮

[sweet rampart]

Anyone switching to mechagnome? Seems like they might be very good for DPS. Very bad for transmog

[ashen solar]

🔮

[strange python]

and gnomes, god forbid

[shut garnet]

would i be better off running 2/2/2 with like 40crit50mast rather than 3ss 2ttk 1eb with CT and 61mast 36crit

the ttks seem so bad since most packs i barely even cast envenom

[left moth]

so i just heared that we will get „Nothing Personal“ in every Raid Azerite??? RIP wtf is that 😡

that is terrible for raiding and even more terrible if i wanna m+

[shut garnet]

yes pretty much all m+ pieces will be from vendor now

but with the addition of mechagon to m+ you get an extra chest and shoulder with ss/echoing so happy days

[rose violet]

"terrible for raiding"

[left moth]

ahh, ok thats good new with mechagon then

well i have never seen a human beeing use more than 1 of that trait, mayen terrible is a strong word, its still not good at all for raiding

when stacked ofc

[shut garnet]

then you obviously didnt play BoD

ppl ran 3ss 3np

lol

not as bad as you're making it out to be :p

[rose violet]

it is more burst which is sins strenght

it could be a lot worse

[left moth]

i didnt yeah i came back on 8.2 release 😄

[rose violet]

like first dance on every piece

[cobalt pelican]

np is basically our single best progress raiding trait

[left moth]

rly u think so? ok well you guys took my fear that assas wont be that great next patch then, ty 😄

now im happy

[rose violet]

there's a reason why people dont run 3 np and its not because the trait is bad

[sweet peak]

Any news on what essences we are using for assassination in the next raid?

[quasi pewter]

No

[arctic socket]

Sims... sims are weird

[vestal wren]

wdym sims are weird?

[vital haven]

holy shit i just realized none of the azerite raid pieces in the new raid have echoing blades

[royal lantern]

welcome too the assassination m+ trait gamble next patch

[rose violet]

like we didnt have to gamble this patch

[strange python]

Either gotta save for the expensive azurite pieces or pray to the gods that the stars planets and black holes align

[leaden garden]

Hey guys is asa in m+ very much worse than outlaw?

[arctic walrus]

No

[icy ember]

nah it isn't, between you and me outlaw is slightly better in M+

just cuz you dont have to build for it, you just run w/e

and cuz it bangs

but i use asn to raid with

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gF5DrcsybxmhVbWYqthNhd

[distant lava]

ok ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/arkoqVmhceLr3zMDv9Hp5e

btw

[white wyvern]

big 🍆 over here

[distant lava]

not really

[strange python]

Use the font

[arctic walrus]

Would suck 🍆 for those daggers ya feel?

[distant lava]

ya

nice daggers

[quasi pewter]

[rigid mango]

Linking that sim

[arctic socket]

I’m happy with my socketed 445s

But those 450s seem mm

I just don’t see how tidal is better than DD for me

Changed when I started with loyal 🤔

Using*

[pallid jay]

In terms of envenom usage, should I be looking to keep the envenom buff up or the elaborate planning buff up?

[dark crag]

Yes

Inside tb window

[rigid mango]

You don't have to care about buffs really, just mut in env and ur gucci really.

[storm lodge]

checked wowanalyzer and my combo point efficiency was crap..is there an addon that can tell me if im messing up my combo points realtime during combat? just as a reminder to stop being dumb ?

[pallid jay]

Oh so it's about having energy to mut inside of env uptime and env uptime itself doesn't matter? ie pool for env-> mut?

[rigid mango]

You don't really need to pool, but yeah. Getting all your muts in env is high prio but u should from just playing w/out thinking.

@storm lodge wanalyz isn't supported for sin, if u need log help I/we're here to help. Can get shit help from there. As for addon nah dunno mate.

[storm lodge]

ah kk! ty...i'm an ex feral druid, so using 4 combo points instead of 5 just isnt in my muscle memory... i'll practice to avoid doing that

[rigid mango]

Yeah, takes a while but not that hard in the end.

[storm lodge]

i end up muting at 4 which is what wastes the CPs i think

also related to the question that @pallid jay asked

you mut inside TB right? the envenom debuff is just about increased poison application chance?

[rigid mango]

Yeah.

And with double dose traits it increases proc chance of that

[storm lodge]

ah im guessing DD

yeah just saw the trait

[waxen summit]

I started playing my rogue again, which essence should i get ready for 8.3?

[arctic walrus]

realistically all of them because we don't know what's gonna be good

[cobalt gyro]

my haste on sin is really gross rn

https://i.imgur.com/rLuQLPW.png

[subtle tundra]

i have a feeling thats... unoptimal