i personally dont like the grg opener in m+ beaucause it means ill have to refresh rupture during vendetta, right after bote runs out
#assassination
marble hemlock
vast forum
i just don't think grg vs ggr is a big difference in dps
marble hemlock
youre already energystarved by that point and you choose between potentially not getting a 4+rupture out in time before it drops, or not using cp on an envenom while bote is still up
having the 5cp rup in your opener solves that issue
so yeah, try to hold CP for bosses, or do ggr
(for m+ with ss+subterfuge)
lone junco
so weird to see my friend quit wow for like 3 years. come back and play dh. he was like " so i beam, then stab a bit. dash around a bunch then stab some more" insta 60k m+.
gg
sin rogues get out the calculus.
outer lotus
I mean assa isnt hard either. I never played assa before, reforged my gear and read a guide and got a 95 log the first time playing it. All the specs are pretty easy to pick up and optimizing the last 10% is difficult
lone junco
Exang with bracer boots. Legion is still my all time favorite rogue St.
70+% crit made things smooth.
tropic ocean
@outer lotus big!!!
lone junco
@strange python you didnt like getting 100% crit on argus with crit buff? that was delightful.
strange python
I agree - legion was so much better for sin, I don’t really like the spec now
I miss poison bomb dmg
I bursted up over 9mil on mythic aggramar once - was pretty funny
hexed lotus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
crisp hollow
is TB that much better than Exsang in M+ that even with 3 SS we still run it?
vernal flume
yes
tropic ocean
@crisp hollow exsang is only good in very short duration fights
lone junco
Current benefit of exang is just an energy burst and we don't have problems with e in cleave. @crisp hollow
It was good at pumping the vanish ss Into a very short buff window using galecaller trinket or a boss vulnerable phase.
versed mica
With the world vein/visions of perfection buffs next patch (and nerf to life essence) are either of those going to be the best for raid content for sin? Does anyone know yet?
royal lantern
we can tell you when somone can see the future
aka
nobody knows yet
just get the essence 
plenty of time till the patch hits
cobalt pelican
probably not but yeah just go get it
versed mica
I have rank 4 of each, just curious. I don’t find life essence to be boring lmao
drifting cloud
worldvein is looking really strong
but there might just be that 1 other one that still beats it
versed mica
I just find*
drifting cloud
the buff to the major is just insane
shy dust
itd be like 3k agility every 1 min for 18 seconds
versed mica
Yeah I feel like if anything, world vein might be a new contender for top spot. But apparently the new essences from next patch are super good, so who knows
rigid mango
We'll just have to wait and see.
rocky smelt
IS double dose bugged when simming?
rigid mango
No?
rocky smelt
Everyone seems to be running double dose 2 or 3
but it sims lower for me than some other shit
rigid mango
Other traits matter on pieces bud
Like OP for example
Or just the other major trait
Feel free to link the sim and the answer should be quite simple.
rocky smelt
alright two secs, just resimming, noticed i had pvp talents still in that sim
also a heads up, my rogue is trash geared - only simmed it bc my friend said about double dose being strong and noticed i had 3
drifting cloud
1 trait doesnt carry the whole piece if the other 2 are subpar
rigid mango
It is, but yeah, it's not as simple as just a 1 to 1 trait comparison and instead it's 1 to 1 piece comparison
drifting cloud
but outside of loyal to the end, double dose is the best st trait yes
rocky smelt
but it's using that particular piece, just not choosing dd
rigid mango
Oh bot
UT sims
Yeah ok, you're looking at the wrong trait that's simming incorrectly
outer lotus
Undulating Tides 
rocky smelt
on chest it takes NP over DD too though
drifting cloud
1 NP is really strong
rocky smelt
yeah i mostly pvp
drifting cloud
yeah in pvp its totally different, dd is not a good trait there
cobalt pelican
you get FREE energy
none of our traits are really 'so' strong, like even dd is just slightly tuned above other traits
drifting cloud
we just do so much more dmg during our cds than outside so NP amplifies that even more
we're basically melee fire mage
and yeah the free energy is only on the 1st NP, you only get the dmg part from other ones
rocky smelt
i see
icy ember
rigid mango
rocky smelt
so my chest that is NP or DD and UT or scent i should take NP and scent?
that being my only NP
drifting cloud
for raiding?
rocky smelt
yeah
drifting cloud
or what content do you mean
rocky smelt
just in raids
drifting cloud
yeah try simming UT with lower uptime, because scent is pretty bad
ut at 50% probably beats it tbh
slow mountain
does mastery increase ur NP dmg?
rigid mango
Yes
tropic ocean
@lone junco its still super good for parse cheesing though
light pebble
so i got both coral and font of power. am i meant to use both since they share a cooldown or just 1 of them with another trinket?
they both sim the highest dps wise so im not sure
light pebble
how do i do it timing wise? font at the start and then coral 15 seconds in after the cooldown is done?
arctic walrus
yes
then you'll font at 1:56, and vendetta when coral is at 6s cd
then vanish/tb/coral together
placid dawn
anything different i should do if i get the essence of azeroth buff in azshara p4?
vast forum
do more damage 🙂
placid dawn
cool
vast forum
just do exactly the same
feral shuttle
Depending on how many CR's you have left you can run and do a giga-soak of a ward just before you die.
vast forum
well i meant same in the rotational sense
dim steppe
What do you guys do to sim for M+?
young portal
You don't sim it really, just crit to 37%~ and stack mastery. Versa is okay but drop as much haste as possible
vast forum
excuse me sir, but where teh fuck did you get the 37% number?
also, you don't have generic stat weights
they depend a lot on your azerite
if you have 3xSS and 1xEB, mastery can leave crit in the dust, but if you have 3xEB, crit will likely be your best choice
inner sonnet
lol, love how when a M+ group falls apart, the salters are always "QQ, who tf even plays assass in M+ anyway, crap rogue blah blah"
these people just don't understand 
rigid mango
Very sin related.
obsidian dew
Sin is really good in tyrannical weeks. Especially in kr
I’d even dare say it is better than outlaw in kr
real bay
tropic ocean
sin is really good in every week
like if you rank it against every other melee slot
it is only really outclassed by outlaw
😄
rigid mango
Literally any other melee apart from outlaw and dh are worse than sin but since it's not outlaw it's treated like it's sub 
.
tropic ocean
even dh unless maybe kr for the skip (if you don't have another rogue in)
vast forum
if you don't have a rogue, even a sub will be better than most melee 😛
tropic ocean
true
however I think many pugs, even in higher regions, highly undervalue the iron wire talent
vast forum
depends on dungeon/tank
tropic ocean
having 6 seconds of silence and 8 seconds of 15% less dmg is pretty big imo especially on multiple targets
vast forum
6 sec off-dr silence on 3 targets is very good
tropic ocean
like in shrine I can take care of so much and after it runs out just vanish and silence 3 casters again
or in any dungeon with annoying casters
and personally thinking a 8 second 15% less dmg "cd" on 3 targets is giga as well, especially as its literally for the whole group
strange python
Do you guys do log reviews?
arctic walrus
sure
arctic walrus
Seems fine
you could have delayed your cds to line with your 2nd clf though
also you can vendetta when coral is at 6s on its cd, not when it's up
strange python
Ok
so I guess hold cds for a min or so if the fight isn't going to be longer than 4 min?
arctic walrus
Yes because you won't miss out a vendetta/vanish cast
strange python
ye
arctic walrus
and you'll line it up with clf haste/dmg boost
also you almost play too safe
for example after popping your 2nd font, you barely used any spells until the end of the window
strange python
ye I don't have much faith in pug groups
arctic walrus
missed out on a lot of damage
arctic walrus
yes because you were busy running out much farther than you needed to
strange python
I'll keep that in mind 😄
arctic walrus
almost lost 1/3 duration in this case
arctic walrus
apart from this small gain, no
don't poison knife if you're just far away from the boss
just pool energy instead
arctic walrus
don't font puffer
arctic walrus
2nd and 3rd platform
strange python
why is that?
I always font then shadowstep to boss
or i guess it's because the seconds of missed buff?
arctic walrus
took you 10s before you could actually start hitting boss (font channel ended at 129)
it's all about lining up coral/font/vendetta together
this spec likes it's 2 minute windows a lot and you do most of your damage inside those windows
strange python
So I can font in shadowstep range and then insta shadowstep?
or is it better to just font in melee range?
arctic walrus
yeye np
shut pasture
crimson tempest or poison bomb for tyra?
marble elm
The real play is don’t be a bitch and don’t get the buff at all
arctic walrus
Night 
royal lantern
deepens how high you wanna go....?#
edgy pawn
those suck for high keys tbh
edgy pawn
yah, sorry, aint gonna work
shut pasture
edgy pawn
20-21 is not that easy that you can halfass it
and youre basically half assing it with those essences tbh
i mean, iris is decent
lucid is good
but you want blood major
and either vop/c&s/pp 2nd minor
shut pasture
well I don't have anything else
edgy pawn
iris major is your best guess
if youre serious about pushing keys you should get decent essences tho
shut pasture
I will but rn cba
outer lotus
You can do 20-21s with suboptimal stuff what do you mean. The difference wont be 2k dps he is missing because of suboptimal essences
outer lotus
Yeah i have done 20s as survival aswell. You dont have to play the optimal stuff to have fun
edgy pawn
now imagine what you couldve done with decent essences :p
rigid mango
Cof and 66 neck 
marble hemlock
and electromental :>
dark crag
Tmog is full set + meme vision + meme elf
outer lotus
Is electromental not decent for sin?
tropic ocean
@outer lotus not really no
outer lotus
Hm it's pretty good for outlaw, especially in something like kings rest. Like top 5 trinket
shy dust
But not for sin.
cobalt pelican
when your gearing path involves as little haste as humanly possible the trinket naturally loses a lot of it's value
granite oriole
Fully new to assassination, want to play PvP. What should I prioritize getting first so I can start playing PvP on it?
Just recently got my Rogue dinged.
shut pasture
@rigid mango it's an alt
rigid mango
Doesn't make it better 😄
coral pond
Just started assassin, seeing what's up with it... I feel super energy starved. Running rank 2 lucid, but not Vigor (using DS) , is Vigor necessary or is it a mileage issue?
rigid mango
Yeah, always vigor for m+/raid
frank tiger
currenlty farming bote, do you guys think bote rank2 is better than iris r3 for m+?
hidden bay
u dont play bote unless it’s rank3
sour glade
So why do you run PB over CT in ToS, SoB, and KR? Just want to make sure I understand the reasoning.
halcyon zealot
Should Force Multiplier enchant be on MH or OH wep? or does it not matter
drifting cloud
doesnt matter
halcyon zealot
yeah didnt think so, ty
buoyant hawk
@sour glade more emphasis on boss fights in those dungeons with smaller trash pulls. CT isn’t used at all on single target while PB still has value on aoe and obviously better for single target
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
lethal lagoon
!guide
strange python
Is 51k simdps court mythic ready or should i stick to my moonkin? Id rly like to play rogur
cobalt pelican
51k is more than fine
arctic walrus
Why would tertiary stats make you do more damage?
eager river
cmon vel
if you have more avoidance, you take less damage from mechanics, thus letting you live longer to dps more
arctic walrus
The more you leech the less you need to feint/vial
zenith wren
Leech isnt that great afaik in comparison with avoidance
Which allows u to mitigate 1shots or ignore mechanics if done correctly
tacit knoll
got a question :would toxic blade increase the the dmg from inkpod stacks?
safe stratus
wowhead implies a no to that. TB is listed as increasing all our nature spells individually by 30%
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=245389/toxic-blade
under effect
mighty elm
im out of the loop, is the Mythic azshara gloves better baseline vs benthic 425 socketed gloves?? , its simmin higher
not sure if sims r correct or not 
vast forum
should be about equal i think
also you can play around the gloves with a WA
pull when they're about to proc and then you can have them twice in a 2.10 fight 😛
dark crag
Get them 455 with socket
kind steppe
yooooooooooooooooooooooooo
old veteran coming for some questions
I'm not here in the week since september cuz of studies, & I wanted to be prepared to push some the vacances, but some problems happened
My assa azerite are kinda shit
https://i.imgur.com/ULqkIDX.png
( even tho I have outlaw BiS ofc but I don't have the axes from the 2nd boss so I can't play it )
I wanted to know what is the best I can do with that, and if I should spam 5x FoK after BotE if I'm not playing EB
if that does change a lot the stats I need in function of the trait I play ( If I don't have a single EB, mastery > crit I guess
etc
shrewd iron
Don't use stat weights
rigid mango
And don't use dslice either
@kind steppe You're probably better off playing outlaw than sin regardless of if you have folly or not
rigid mango
Doesn't matter
kind steppe
rly ?
rigid mango
Your azerite is mediocre for sin
kind steppe
😭
rigid mango
Either you get good stuff or you can't keep up to outlaw
So if you're open to play both, outlaw is a better option here.
kind steppe
aight
candid anvil
I'm pretty sure it is somewhere around, but are there any sin m+ streamers other than seli?
light pebble
What are the best daggers for assasination atm? Raid and M+ pls 😄
brisk forge
Raid is the ones with crit+haste and prolly crit+mast in m+ But sim yourself to make sure
And gems makes a big diff especially in oh
viscid lichen
candid anvil
why do you say "sim yourself" for m+ when dungeon slice is not relevant? or do you just choose patchwerk and 4 bosses?
rose violet
or you equip all the crit + mastery/versa gear you have
candid anvil
not a good advice lol, if i have bis wrists 430 but crit+versa 440 which one is better and how do you find out
granite rampart
you can sim something along the lines of like 5-6 targets and 40 seconds for exact gearing. although the nature of assassination aoe will tell you that haste is not great in multi-target scenarios. with our energy regeneration based off bleed ticks, multiple targets give more opportunities for more bleeds.
and with our bis aoe traits being shrouded suffocation, a buff to garrote which is affected by mastery, and echoing blades, which procs on FoK crits, it’s not too difficult to deduce that crit/mastery is generally best in m+.
so in short, his advice was fine.
ashen solar
Dont we generally only go like 7% haste lol
I mean I'll agree that assa m+ simming is inaccurate, but it doesnt make simming irrelevant
rose violet
we want 0 haste
which is not possible with azerite neck equipped
theres no real way of simming m+
you want crit above all up to a certain point where it loses some value
mastery and versa is pretty close so most of the time you can go for ilvl
sockets make it a bit difficult but yea
it cant be that bad if it doesnt have haste on it
vast forum
mastery > crit with 3xSS
rose violet
if you play without eb you might as well play outlaw
marble hemlock
cause at their core ttk and eb operate on opposite ends of our gameplay
stacking eb will give you the best results when you start overcapping CP and keep spamming fok once packs are big enough (which already happens at 4-6targets based on your critrate with 3EB)
whereas ttk obviously becomes most efficient when you utilize highcrit to generate 4+ cp every fok so you can fok>envenom>repeat spam on trash for prio damage
it worked well in s2 because just 2 EB was enough to beat almost every other class in sustained AoE already, leaving room for other traits
with essences not being as useful for us as for other classes however, you need the 3eb to be competitive on aoe, and that means running ttk on top is just gonna come at huge opportunity cost
shy axle
anything regarding corruptions/traits for 8.3 already "published", like a google doc or something? I know its still time, but if there`s something I´d like to read it
shy axle
ye ofc, you guys are top keeping everyone informed here
rigid mango
Yeah we'll see, crit probably just mad.
rotund mural
Damn, i'm gonna go back to subterfuge in raids and everywhere else... MA failed me so much
rigid mango
Sounds like shite reasoning.
rotund mural
maybe, but subterfuge i always enjoyed
rigid mango
If you wanna play stuff that's worse bec it feels better no one's gonna stop you
rigid mango
Idk what's gonna be BiS tbh, clf gets nerfed but idk if it's enough.
rigid mango
We'll see what it looks like when shit hits sims
Idk I don't think bote'll be bis thanks to crit addition or vice versa, just comes down to new ess/bote v nerfed clf
Also ofc, fight design.
strange python
im at court mythic rn
im currently tunneling pashmar and then dot spark until i have font up again for 2nd sparks and then vendetta onto the boss again after spark
is this correct?
arctic walrus
Saryero is the king of not target switching
marble hemlock
assa is pretty terrible at it :>
strange python
oh so i just stay on the boss?
how can i reduce the dmg of deferred sentence with cloak or feint?
or the spark explosion?
royal lantern
spark explosion can be cloaked
and well, if you need more dmg on the spark, go for it
if your raid has no problems with it just stay on the boss
like seli said, stuff like the sparks are pretty bad for sin cus your dmg is,well, over time, not bursty(except with cd's)
marble hemlock
deferred sentence is unavoidable, you can cloak but it will just make it so the sentence doesnt run out until cloak expires
feinting sparks is usually the best bet to stay alive during sparks+sentence
reset your stacks at 3-4, or whenever a raid-cooldown is up
surviving sparks+sentence mostly comes down to decent healing-cd assignments during that phase
tropic ocean
@royal lantern idk about his guild but wherever i raided actually needed to make ppl not cleave
Cuz locks shadows etc are spark pad wipe gang
royal lantern
i mean, stuff like that REALLY depeens on your group
marble hemlock
its all about identifying what the grp needs and if/what you can do individually to make that happen or if other people are better at it
historically melee have rarely been required to swap to any adds and bosses with adds have remained training dummies for melee dps
as you said, sp, mage-cleave, warlocks etc. are just better at it than multiple melee combined who would have to sacrifice way more to get the same effect on adds
strange python
should i save vendetta for guardian? or do i use vendetta on cd?
drifting cloud
you save guardian for vendetta if it doesnt make you lose a cast
strange python
ok ty
marble hemlock
or the other way around, depends on fight-duration
4min fight you delay vendetta to 3min to line up with guardian
5min fight you delay guardian to 4min to line up with vendetta
etc.
basic idea is to not lose a cast of either one while still lining up as many of them as you can
strange python
how do i decide which trinket i use first? font then line up vendetta with coral?
arctic walrus
there's only one way to use the combination
read up the paragraph in #tc-updates and you can look into logs if you get confused
strange python
ah ok sorry didnt see
rigid mango
Should be in pins too 😄
stable isle
simcraft assumes you spend 100% of your time stood behind the target right? is there any way i can vary this?
rigid mango
Why, what are you seeking?
stable isle
considering whether the haste proc from the mechagon ringset is actually worth it over other rings based on rough uptimes im getting on azshara pulls currently
probably not worth a huge difference but im still interested
rigid mango
It's really good, really good.
harsh sphinx
i use them on every boss but behemoth and radiance
rigid mango
You can consistantly position yourself properly on qa
harsh sphinx
uptime is very high 95+%
stable isle
yeah see last time i checked im only getting like 80%+ uptime. perhaps i can just improve on my positioning but i'd prefer to just be able to focus on other things
drifting cloud
well theres times on azshara when you cant hit anything to proc it
dont forget that
you probably have close to 100% uptime when possible, its pretty easy to maintain
stable isle
yeah true. the times im thinking of where im definitely not behind azshara is p2 when we move her to the console. one of the tanks faces her the right way but the other one doesnt. dont really want to have to tell them to change all that just for a haste proc
rigid mango
I mean there's no reason not to
cobalt pelican
all the sim options are available on the wiki
it's not really useful but if you want to use them go ahead
stable isle
yeah i think im just gunna make a weakaura for the buff being active and just try and improve my uptime instead
thanks for the help
tropic ocean
sin feels so bad in siege holy :[
arctic walrus
It's not like you have to consistently be behind your target for the buff. Simply step forward and hit azshara from the back, there's actually quite a bit of leeway with the degree you're able to proc the effect, then move back. Repeat every 15s
plain moon
What do you guys do for Azshara p3 on third add with coral? Been switching between coraling the myrms and coraling azshara to hold to pop in p4
buoyant hawk
Usually coral azshara for p4 cause the third add is pretty chill for dps
marble hemlock
@tropic ocean wdym, just play 0EB and you deal better prio dmg than any other spec 🙂
and st too
tropic ocean
yeah i do ended up with 38k overall
Cuz we kept spotter all dungeon after 1st boss
😭
marble hemlock
no point in comparing overall in a dungeon where a lot of dmg is just wasted
halberd/marksman/commander dmg is where its at
marble hemlock
get a stronger mind 🙂
tawny plover
Hey guys, quick question are our best essences changing for 8.3? I've been looking around on google but can't seem to find a proper answer
vast forum
no answers yet
there might still be tuning
when preliminary sims are done, they will be posted somewhere in this discord
zenith wren
Asking questions regarding the next patch at this point is like asking if it will rain in 3 weeks by now. Answer is maybe it will maybe it wont, but if you would specify the reason why you are addressing the questions you would receive a more accurate answer. Same goes for essences, at this point it is not really worth losing time with simming if they will drop more changes to essences/gearing system. Just have them prepared and profit when there will be a verdict
tepid fractal
who cares. same meta for almost 1.5 years, no major changes will happen
quasi pewter
royal lantern
this guy is allready in 9.0
gritty dagger
time passes differently for everyone i guess
sleek phoenix
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
outer lotus
Looks like it's a different wa
white wyvern
Then go to the ElvUI* settings and find it. There is certainty a way to disable; I just can't remember. Probably in target debuffs somewhere.
strange python
That looks like some quartz bullshit
ripe gulch
i have been looking for it for half an hour 
strange python
Good stuff
outer lotus
Everyone can be outlaw with harlans loaded dice
dire spoke
atomic willow
for M+ if you had no other choice would you take Undulating tides or Scent of blood?
marble hemlock
UT most likely
depends on affixes
in a week like this with bursting, UT is gonna proc nonstop (the defensive part), meaning the dps part is not as strong
atomic willow
ty
cobalt pelican
a decent amount
arctic walrus
a certain numerical amount
cobalt pelican
6-7 profits
rigid mango
- 10x
candid anvil
hey, does anyone use plater? i have a problem, that the plates aren't high enough, and they overlap "true sight"-eye so I don't see which mobs can see through stealth.. I moved it up, but the actual hitbox stayed at same place, so now i need to click below the actual plate to target.. anyone knows how to adjust hitbox? or do you have some working profile you could share so I can copy that string..?
oh found it, god bless github topics
tropic ocean
np man
marble hemlock
dunno
shut pasture
Any idea if 2/2/2 returns?
rigid mango
🔮
cobalt pelican
literally nothing matters for the first couple weeks because you're just going to be gearing up
and unless you're lacking arms you can do the key level required for gear with no traits
marble hemlock
youre not gonna get the azerite traits for m+ within the first few weeks anyway
even if you get giga lucky
well have to see how the meta shapes up, but dont expect any conclusions until 1-2months into the season
tawny plover
@ripe gulch for future its quartz settings for buffs/bars
worn cloak
why he even has quartz when he has what looks like elvui
the castbars can be customized already
clever current
does assassination suck at low levels or something, im level 23
im doing like no dps cuz my energy
silver nexus
is there anything in the new raid that would cause you to want a rogue over a warrior?
like strats that cheese with cloak or cheat death etc
arctic walrus
won't know until raid's out
zenith wren
Patch will increase secondary stats so warrior would button smash harder
But nothing beats rogue utility
That's why people brought heavy rogue numbers within raids (legion)
vestal wren
problem with rogue utility is that its all in the mercy of blizz
cos and faint more often recently are useless leaving rogue on those encounters to be one of the worse classes utility wise
dark crag
Queens court move debuff with cloak
shell wadi
is the ravendholt website in terms of guide like builds, rotation and etc up to date
marble hemlock
detection > queens court
mystic talon
"Patch will increase secondary stats so warrior would button smash harder" lmao
rigid mango
@shell wadi should be.
zenith wren
Ok let me write it in detail because you don't seem to understand the wording. The class labeled as warrior uses this mechanic called rage which starts at 0 and builds up when you use certain generating skills. When this rage reaches a number you use it to activate a skill called spender (which i dont think that i should explain how it functions). Thus, one may notice that warrior is that sort of class which focuses on covering every gcd without fearing about pooling resources. In return, having access to stat boosts will result into more skill usage and thus harder button smashing. However, you seem to play rogue, as it did happen that you posted it in this discord. You see, energy is the reverse of rage and is generated by itself without you pressing buttons. So it would be natural for one to notice the difference in play style and "button smashing". TLDR lma
cobalt pelican
hwat
granite rampart
my brain hurts
jovial adder
🍿
granite rampart
warrior too confusing
marble hemlock
how does that relate to assassination? :>
royal lantern
good question
outer lotus
Mage can we get an intellect buff pls?
zenith wren
Idk kev some guy asked earlier if new patch will make the raidlead chose rogue over warrior
outer lotus
My raidlead also chooses the roster by CPM
vast forum
the only thing i can think of is haste = lower gcd
outer lotus
Maybe less whirlwind/brutal slash fillers? But every spec scales with more ilvl thats not a warrior specific thing lol
dark crag
Low cpm classes can focus more on mechanics
dark crag
Sin rogues can focus more on mechanics than warris who penetrate their keyboards
modest tendon
Disagree, doing mechanics well is all about committing your rotation to muscle memory so you can concerntrate on not standing in fire, this is possible for every class and I don’t think assassination has it any easier or harder than any class
farming raid encounters don’t you find Sin quite a fast spec anyway when you are stacking as much haste as possible and doing as much damage as possible?
Like you pool a bit more often than outlaw but that’s it
marble hemlock
assa has it easier because lower-apm specs naturally have more room for you to pay attention to something thats not related to your dps
if you dont have to press a button for the next 4 seconds, that gives you time to survey the encounter, timers etc. to be prepared for whats coming up
modest tendon
Your rotation should be as automatic as possible, so you can look around the encounter rather than at your WA, isn’t this a symptom of assa being an easyish spec not just that it’s slower?
rigid mango
A partial reason for its simplicity is its slowness
marble hemlock
the amount of abilities you press as part of your regular rotational gameplay is pretty much the same for every spec
then each spec has its individual "complexity" in the form of resource, buff or cooldown management
not having to press our abilities every GCD means you can do any of the above with more room for error, or rather without fucking something up because you "didnt" press a button
vestal wren
energy essences made it a bit faster, its considered easy bc. you can alter your rotation a lot without losing damage. This makes mistakes less heavy, ofc if you do "stupid things" you can impact your output but for the majority of cases keeping up your bleeds and using your cd's should net a very good output
marble hemlock
mhye, and thats mostly due to the fact that most of our damage is maintenance-based or cooldown-based
so the ~1m40sec between cooldowns, as long as you dont let your stuff drop off entirely, is just not fast-paced/impactful enough to matter for your overall
if we had enough energy to press buttons evvery GCD that would be quite different
vestal wren
i mean assassinations damage is atm to much shifted towards vendetta for my taste
marble hemlock
definitely
vestal wren
i would prefere to have a higher baseline from bleeds/poisons
rigid mango
Just make like, TB/buff management matter
marble hemlock
would allow you to run exsanguinate with vision minor 😮
vestal wren
replace tb with kingsbane 😉
marble hemlock
step1: replace tb with kingsbane
step2: replace poisonbomb with tb, add "your next envenom cast after using tb also procs a poison bomb under your target" and increase the dmg of that bomb
step3: profit
gives you pb on demand
and another cd with kb 🙂
rigid mango
Yeah sounds p fun
marble hemlock
make ct/bladerush/sectec baseline
its a travesty each roguespec has to spec into an aoe finisher
marble hemlock
replace ct with poison knives, sectec with echoing blades, bladerush with dfa
marble hemlock
but ultimately @vestal wren the biggest issue with assa dmg
rigid mango
Make other stuff more fun eb is so boring
marble hemlock
is that our strongest azerite traits only buff builders
if ttk/scent were better traits
assa would play much better imo and not be as cd-based
playing with 3ttk on st is pretty damn fun
rigid mango
3ttk dd would be fun
rigid mango
That'd make ep and env matter as buffs
Probs
So you actually care abour resource management not just spamming
marble hemlock
mmmh
assa core gameplay is just too simple
untalented, what do you do
vendetta every 2min
you dont have TB or CT or anything else
🙂
marble hemlock
with 3ttk you would have to
marble hemlock
would actually be a meaningful difference
but when your dd proc deals the same dmg as your envenom
marble hemlock
its kinda like w/e
same with aoe, echo being better than your talented aoe finisher
is a joke
builders shouldnt be the main source of dmg
but they are
marble hemlock
ct baseline, make scent boost the dmg of your next ct
rigid mango
Counterintuitive way of playing specs
marble hemlock
as a stacking buff, like every rupture you cast increases the damage of your next ct by 50%
marble hemlock
i played 2 in s1
1ss 2scent
with ct
was so fucking fun
and then echo came and ruined it 🙂
cause echo is just a better scent 😛
fathom wyvern
Echo is boring
vestal wren
scent is undertuned 🤢
marble hemlock
giving primary stat
is just terrible
when so much of our dmg doesnt scale with agi at all
cause we only get dmg boosts from azerite traits
that dont scale with agi
vestal wren
problem with traits in general is that the ones that buff builders are usually more powerfull given the amount of builders you use
fathom wyvern
I hate assa in raids, its hella fun in dungs but outlaw is just outlaw... i know assa is more than competetive enough but Idk...
marble hemlock
when 3eb doubles my fok basedmg, getting 10% more basedmg from a stacking agi buff is pointless
fathom wyvern
It does but gets outscaled by mastery on dot dmg
marble hemlock
the dmg increase to garrote doesnt scale with agi
outer lotus
Agi doesnt scale with echoing blades or double dose
marble hemlock
cause its (ap*coefficient)+trait dmg
for fok or ttk or garrote
so you have 15% echodmg, which doesnt scale with agi at all. 20% fok dmg, half of which is provided by the trait, so only 10% of that scales with agi
25% garrote dmg, 2/3rds of which are SS damage that doesnt scale with agi
marble hemlock
but trait-dmg doesnt scale with ap
fathom wyvern
^
vestal wren
yes thats by design for majority of traits
marble hemlock
so if your final basedmg is 50% trait-based and 50% ap-based, that means agi scales worse
well, for assa, yeah
our 1-point benefits are very small
2cp from ss or 1sec envenom duration are terrible
vestal wren
traits are flat damage usually what means the dont scale well what makes you exchange them in the next tier
marble hemlock
and in the case of scent of blood, its one of few traits that give primary stat
only other one i can think of is festermight
most other classes either have base-dmg increases like we do too, or gain secondary stat like furious gaze
outer lotus
Paradise lost, icy citadel, roiling havoc... there are a lot
But most of those give so much main stat that they are still okay
marble hemlock
and those secondary stat increasing traits are almost always bis for their classes
mhye
well, scent would be better if it gave more numbers-wise obviously
but it still clashes with EB
which makes you not wanna spend CP at all
vestal wren
sec. stats scaling better then primary is mainly a issue of how blizz calculated scaling
marble hemlock
meh
id say its mostly because traits dont scale with AP
and when 25-40% of your dmg is based on trait-basedmg-increases
vestal wren
kind of the same story as the terrible itemlvl scaling for stats
marble hemlock
primary stat obviously scales worse
shut garnet
that build would feel so weird to play though
marble hemlock
what build?
marble hemlock
its fun as fuck, wdym 😄
shut garnet
ofc, it's more fun than spamming a button thats for sure
marble hemlock
rollng 7-8 ruptures on a big pull
and watching all your dmg, from poisons to bleeds to everything just scale up and up dynamically
shut garnet
just sad that if you were to run that build now and do that, you could just have 3 EB instead and spam fok
and you'd do more dmg, right?
marble hemlock
yes
marble hemlock
and with how bad scent is for st
thats one of the main concerns
scent is just awful for st
its actually quite good on low-target cleave
where assa is weakest
that in itself highlights a big issue with the spec
we're a multidot spec
yet on 2-4targets
were one of the least efficient dps
ss is our only saving grace on those fights
Gl doing a 3target pull in KR when you didnt get a restealth
shut garnet
lol
marble hemlock
enjoy your 40k dps while everyone else is doing twice that
shut garnet
i imagine the ppl that play 3eb hb crit build dont play that in KR, right?
marble hemlock
nah
shut garnet
or have ppl finally realised it's just not good
marble hemlock
you play
shut garnet
altogether
shut garnet
just so sad as well how you need all this gear for different minmax combinations
so gear dependant
meanwhile outlaw
marble hemlock
just play fury
cshb for everythng
which also gives you 20k hps on aoe 🙂
arms warrior deep wounds deals twice as much dmg over time
as deadly poison+rupture+garrote combined
🙂
shut garnet
but its ok because after you save up for 5 months and wait to reclear mythic
u might have enough assa gear
to do +20
🙂
blizzard
marble hemlock
id be happy with atleast 1 piece that is usefu for m+ that comes from raid
just 1
marble hemlock
but needing all 3 pieces from vendor…. fml
and then they have garbage defensive traits
id rather have netherlight crucible back :x
mark that down as something no one wouldve said a year ago
12bosses, plenty of room to provide azerite for raid and m+, but nah
less azerite than aep/bod 🙂
dont think theres a single piece with EB even
shut garnet
next tier?
shut garnet
how so?
marble hemlock
no emissaries
bigger pulls = higher cp gen
and more prio/st focused stuff with generals
shut garnet
potentially
marble hemlock
so yeah, might be like s2
shut garnet
though ppl might just end up running 1np for them
marble hemlock
2eb 1ss 3ttk
shut garnet
with vop minor
marble hemlock
too bad you cant get that setup wth just vendor pieces 
shut garnet
assa feels like dlc atm
finish the raid and play through the season
and u get to play the spec for a month at the end
marble hemlock
in m+ i mean
vestal wren
dh is probably a good pick too
marble hemlock
cba
id rather do unspeakable things to myself
than play DH
id rather play outlaw
outer lotus
Outlaw 
shut garnet
it's also so mindblowing to me
marble hemlock
assa right now is just
shut garnet
the community perception of sin vs outlaw
marble hemlock
an aoe carry
marble hemlock
people still think assa does good st in m+ =))))))))
always sad when someone says they want assa for st and i have to say "you do realize we have the worst st out of any t1/t2 spec rn" 😄
(in m+)
were just good to pump sustained aoe
kinda feel like
just running 1ss 2ttk 3eb and tell tank to chainpull like a mad man
until healer runs oom
oh wait, cant run that cause no azerite combo available for it
shut garnet
then you realise you're playing w/o a trait and you should just play outlaw
marble hemlock
nah
shut garnet
because you'd get the gear to do that from first 2 bosses
marble hemlock
outlaw cant keep up with that at all
if you chainpull
4-6mobs nonstop
youll smoke outlaw
fathom wyvern
Assa is only good st if you spec into it and then you do nothing on aoe right? Dont play assa in dungs so might be wrong
shut garnet
it's fine on ST, not god awful
marble hemlock
and its difficult to justify bringing lower st
shut garnet
still has good burst
fathom wyvern
Outlaw Can keep up untill bladeflurry runs out then they got nothing
marble hemlock
for marginally better aoe with the pulls people do
you actually need to play around assa
fathom wyvern
Ye
marble hemlock
and few people are willing to do that
gimme a tank that plays around me
and i run a sustained/chainpull setup and i do furywarrior dps for you
fathom wyvern
Its why pugging as assa is horrible imo, no1 plays around you
marble hemlock
but Gl finding a grp that wants that )=
shut garnet
i feel like that's the only thing that assa has a disadvantage on compared to outlaw
marble hemlock
st?
shut garnet
id argue the utility, if compared, is different but overall similar
no,
the fact u have to play around it
more so than with outlaw
marble hemlock
mmh
only big difference
is survivability
outlaw having GM, and playing vers
and having good defensive traits
is just much safer
acrobatic strikes too
fathom wyvern
Gm you mean the leech roll?
marble hemlock
only valid complaint about assa is that it takes more dmg than anone else
cobalt pelican
long arms value is surprisingly high
marble hemlock
thats why i play leeching poison more often recently, its actually pretty neat
cobalt pelican
i notice it a lot when i swap back after a few weeks playing outlaw
outer lotus
The go-to azerite traits for outlaw have 0 resounding protection though which kinda sucks
fathom wyvern
Its good but not wow
outer lotus
It's good for big tyrannical bosses though
shut garnet
mr sin why u do so low st dmg
marble hemlock
literally just bad azerite :<
gimme 3op in the 3ss/3eb setup and our st is competitive
shut garnet
it's ok next tier we get to play 3ss 3np in raid again wooooooooo
and a whackamole of stuff in m+ that ppl can get their hands on with rng rolls
fathom wyvern
Theres a guy doing like 130k dps with that build atm on hc ashvane
shut garnet
2/2/2 meta again PogU
cobalt pelican
that's cause the boss dies in like 12 seconds
fathom wyvern
Ye
shut garnet
yeah if the kill is below 2mins, ss exang build actually
does more damage
actually nto sure about exang
fathom wyvern
They run tb iirc
shut garnet
but i saw raz doing some sort of shenanigans with it in mythic as well and his dmg wasnt bad at all
cobalt pelican
problem in m+ is regardless of what you play your damage just trails downwards into pittance pretty quickly
i don't even rly think 3op would save it tbh
marble hemlock
it would be enough
its not like assa needs a lot on st to work
now that visions minor has been established
gonna miss coral actually
the 100% crit bote+vendetta burst windows
felt very nice
but yeah, you can actually run 3ttk 3eb
just difficult to get
shut garnet
the 99% where you mut twice for 2cp didnt though
marble hemlock
ssshh
shut garnet
XD
marble hemlock
we dont talk about that
i miss ttk
was fun
id love to redesign assa :<
got so many ideas 😄
shut garnet
turn assa into unholy
marble hemlock
not just speed it up
ct baseline
the tb/kb thing i suggested earlier
make scent improve dmg of your next finisher
shut garnet
honestly feels so stupid that theyre pushing 3ss3np again nezt tier WITHOUT buffing exang
imagine if exang read like
marble hemlock
problem with exang is that it doesnt really improve your dmg that much
shut garnet
speeds up poisons, while you have at least 2 poisons running on the target increase their dmg and the dmg dealt to the target by 15%
or d% w.e they find balanced
marble hemlock
all it does, is make you gain a few unbuffed rupture/garrote ticks because you refresh sooner
you still have the same amount of buffed dot-ticks with exsang
they just happen a bit faster, so you have a few unbuffed bleed ticks more 😛
shut garnet
yeah it’s just burst rather than sustain
only issue is the burst doesnt match the sustain in the end
marble hemlock
need to move more dmg into poisons/bleeds again
shut garnet
so instead of it being a preference, its a necessity that u run tb
because its just strictly more dmg
marble hemlock
well, tb vs exsang worked in uldir
if you needed burst every 30sec, you ran TB
vectis for example
if you only needed every minute like fetid
exsang was better
shut garnet
boss design that allows for different builds Pog
marble hemlock
its a travesty we dont have a trait that improves rupture dmg
we really need one
we shouldve had new traits every tier like bod
shut garnet
as long as it doesnt turn into nights vengeance
marble hemlock
instead they just gotrid of some bad ones once and brought new, usually op ones, in
wdym
NV is awesome :p
shut garnet
whetr you just rup to envenom
marble hemlock
fuck mfd
just stackin dmg on your next finisher
can either multi rupture and then snapshot big CT
or alternate it for prio dmg
🙂
shut garnet
but then you’ll grt the outlaw feel
where you’ll just play those 3 traita
in raid and m+
marble hemlock
doubt that if scent was like NV
youd alternate between rupture/envenom like sub does
psure DD/np would still be better
with OP often being the deciding factor
shut garnet
eh
true actually
esp since youd want TTKs if you were gonna do that
but also dd but also np
vast forum
@marble hemlock opinions on opening with g-clf-g-r on a short ST boss fight?
with subt and SS ofc
shut garnet
wouldnt u just run blood if the fight was short?
vast forum
why would you?
shut garnet
and go g g rup vend tb blood env?
cobalt pelican
just clf precombat if you have clf surely
vast forum
gonna be speedkilling some raidbosses soon and looking for opinions without simming 😛
cobalt pelican
pretty sure clf precombat is always the best option if you have a cluttered opener with no global spare
vast forum
i don't see how bote would be better
marble hemlock
ss is the way to go there
youd probably rather play
TTK+bote
if youre aiming for like 2min killtimes
vast forum
1 min
marble hemlock
mmmh
vast forum
maybe 1.30 😄
shut garnet
wtf
vast forum
it's just hc zerg that we're doing for fun
marble hemlock
g clf g r
shut garnet
3ss3np pog
marble hemlock
yeah
marble hemlock
since you dont wanna use 3cp rupture in opener
vast forum
yea
marble hemlock
makes you refresh rupture during vendetta
vast forum
i know
marble hemlock
kk
vast forum
i was the one who tested that 😄
vast forum
or rather, pointed it out to our sim team or whatever 😛
vast forum
it does if you stealth after melding @shut garnet
marble hemlock
if you manually restealth maiev
shut garnet
nightelf broken
vast forum
not necessary to run out
shut garnet
damn
marble hemlock
it is
vast forum
but NEVER meld when PB procs 😄
vast forum
it's not any dot 😛
marble hemlock
if youre within 5y
vast forum
i feel like i've melded in melee before
marble hemlock
you fucked your meld
cobalt pelican
it's l ike runescape
marble hemlock
some mobs have insta global combat
marble hemlock
same as some bosses