i dont have any cps
#assassination
neon tendon
rigid mango
Reapply inside or just before.
neon tendon
always 4/5 cps oder maybe then just 3
rigid mango
like, you reapply before pandemic (within 2 sec) or just in TB
it's fine to apply bleeds in TB.
@subtle zodiac open your dungeons and look through them bud.
subtle zodiac
yea i knew someone was gonna say that haha
neon tendon
is it a huge dmg loss when i hold to tb for like 2 sec
subtle zodiac
and then I was ready for the usual discord dudes
royal lantern
cus it takes more time and effort too ask that stuff in a discord channel and wait for the answer ofc
neon tendon
always try to aim for 3 evs in tb?
royal lantern
if possible yes
rigid mango
2-3 yeah
royal lantern
think different for rogue
neon tendon
Alright ty, next logs will be legendary!
royal lantern
you dont lose dps by not using skills for 2-3 seconds#
you lose dps by using your burst windows bad OR by overcapping energy
neon tendon
how do you open on blackwater
with font trinket
font on pull bleeds on fish and normal opener on boss?
or do i use tb on the pufferfish
rigid mango
Just font, bleed the puffer w rupture and not garrote
and then open normally on behemoth after you've applied bleeds
placid dawn
But if you open on behemoth you lose a ton of time swimming to get the buff later
hushed maple
worn basin
I always just killed the fish it dies super fast then went to boss
harsh sphinx
a ton of time is a bit of an exaggeration imo, it's really not that far with the swimspeed / stepping back
knotty hinge
how do u sim without deadly poison on
harsh sphinx
rigid mango
Why would you want that.
cobalt pelican
sim in advanced sim and paste the entire apl in without actions.precombat+=/apply_poison
but like.. i'm not sure what info you're looking for
lone junco
@rigid mango is inkpod junk for M+?
rigid mango
ML is still a bit of a ? Tbh, I'd rate it quite decently tbh but idk.
Mastery and agi are really good so 
rustic flare
Probably a dumb question but does feint affect the damage from quaking? Maybe just the damage from other players?
civic palm
Feint works ye.
outer lotus
Yea only the damage from other players
rustic flare
Ok cool, thanks!
strange python
Fok spam during bote also without EB?
eager river
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ecr6dXHHzeKtMGvgTVgGE2 i figured id want to gem haste since im kinda low on it, but i guess not?
eager river
well my current setup for tonights clear was all vers
and thats what i simmed it against but yea the triple op and quick nav i guess helps a lot
thats nice then though, dont have to swap gems between specs now 
i tried to do better this week vel with what you said, but i think i mightve waited too much?
im also a potato when it comes to multidotting on QC/Zaq, i should just stick to ST lol
i did get font from it tho so maybe next week it'll be better damage
cobalt pelican
most of the damage lost is lack of 2nd pot + delaying your vend lost you like 10sec of your 2nd one on sivara and forced your vanish to be outside tb
p fine overall though, font is nice for short fights for sure
eager river
yea font would be nice for just blowing up heroic clears
strange python
Why do we never apply 4th garotte with 3x SS on 4 targets?
cobalt pelican
because only 3 garrotes fit inside subterfuge
and the 4th is just worse than rupture
strange python
I thought garotte would go on cd after 3rd, but you are right, subtefuge is only 3 seconds
strange python
as bosses die quite fast now and you don't usually get the chance to do the font razor combo, when is it a good time to reactivate coral? during a TB window?
let's say both font and vendetta are on CD, boss has 8-9 stacks of coral and he is going to die
b4 vendetta comes of cd
cobalt pelican
last tb before the boss dies is fine, <20s ttd else
realistically not that many bosses die that fast though outside like.. the first 3 on heroic
strange python
thanks
onyx hedge
@obtuse cedar ik sims are not the best atm but i just wanted to have a look at what they were simming anyway
If i have not killed mythic zaqul and im only using a 435 Shroud of unmooring whispers should i just run a 450 slithering?
gonna sim it but just wanted general opinion before i restore it
mighty elm
Haven’t played for months so forgot , can you cloak and run through azshara beam?
wide hedge
yes you can (if you mean the cutter)
but you can just shadowstep over it to mates/imps
imps are your best friends in that fight 😂
wide hedge
nope DHs die with double jump
shadowstep is a teleport, thats the important difference
mighty elm
Ye , usually just SS to hulk, and might end on other side ^^
For some reason thought we couldn’t cloak it last night
wide hedge
weird 
shrewd night
SSing hulk instead of running so you can save SS for the return trip
thin patio
Play sub so you can use it twice
crystal vault
Get racing flag so you can SS wherever you want 
azure sluice
postion application chance by 30% dose that means it makes my pisions ticks faster ?
vast forum
nop
mighty elm
Sub 
rigid mango
Rise 
mighty elm
Zine 
rigid mango
U took a break?
mighty elm
Yeah, insta after we killed azshara :p thought I was done with retail for good
Guess I’m addicted
cobalt pelican
2day best schedule
mighty elm
mighty elm
Every boi is simming 2-3k more than me right now 
worldly fable
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
rapid forum
Font should be a solid 1k upgrade for me acording to Sims
rigid mango
Sounds about right
mighty elm
idle ember
I think DH can double jump fel rush over beam.
rigid mango
wide oracle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
flint ridge
My Vendetta cd is taking me out of stealth, is anyone else experiencing this?
soft bluff
I don’t think you’re suppose to be able to anyway?
brave vector
Still shouldn’t cast it from stealth
flint ridge
just thought a buffed garrotte from subterfuge with vendetta would be better for single target(when using subterfuge) my bad
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
If you're still confused about openers
flint ridge
thankyou x
restive crater
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
idle ember
CLF vs BotE for Azshara? Is it just preference?
arctic walrus
bote
honest basin
@flint ridge Even though you shouldn't open with Vendetta the reason why it pulls you from stealth if you do it might be that you have a macro that casts an one use trinket when you press vendetta, and using trinkets from stealth removes stealth. Because Vendetta alone doesn't remove stealth, as far as I'm aware. Maybe with NP it does.
arctic walrus
but it do
flint ridge
@honest basin @rigid mango yeah it was NP but have adjusted to the right opener
rigid mango
knotty pond
hi guys looking for advice for sin rotation and builds im new to rogue and coming from a hpally
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
That, icyveins and wowhead.
arctic walrus
icy veins/wowhead better
knotty pond
thanks
dim steppe
What essences should I be focusing on going into 8.3?
rigid mango
CLF Bote Lucid Iris Strife PP
dim steppe
awesome thanks
tiny finch
Guys on progression is it worth it to refresh dots on both bosses? ( Court )
Im refreshing them only when shadowstep comes up
so i can sprint back to my focus target
rigid mango
That's how u wanna play it
tiny finch
gotcha
we just started
any specific tips for that fight?
like is it worth to rupture the sparks since they die so fast?
on the first spark im rupturing it even on the vendetta window
dim steppe
if they last throughout the duration yes
tiny finch
the whole duration or most of it?
they are dying after 10 seconds ish
the first ones at least
10 - 20
arctic socket
Is MFD ever viable in mythic+?
rigid mango
Nope.
dim steppe
idk the exact time but it s worth looking into
rigid mango
You should be by 2nd spark if you do it the regular order, and it should be next to pashmar
You can just tab rupture it
And keep going as normal
tiny finch
gotcha
tanks are still learning the positioning
swaping only with Sprint CD on right?
rigid mango
You swap with step
tiny finch
sometimes i shadowstep without sprint and its annoying to get back
rigid mango
And if the tanks are swapping and they come closeish and you can, just sprint and hop on over
tiny finch
nice its working. im only swapping with full cp so i dont waste any time on the 2nd target
i see people swapping Crucible for Conflict and strife for this boss
as a minor
rigid mango
You shouldn't ever use crucible
😄
But yeah, strife is good when you're swapping targets
When iris isn't good
tiny finch
hold on, so no crucible even on ST fights?
tiny finch
i get confused a ton because im always swaping outlaw to assass in raids, its 50/50 and i main outlaw
xD
silver wagon
i know its early - but hows sin atm looking for 8.3? i'm not a fan of outlaw, and was looking to main sin... also sin for m+ ?
rigid mango
Dunno. Sin is sin.
It'll be top tier for raid and m+
Think of it being S and outlaw is S+ for m+, odds are you're just a boss pumping machine next tier as per usual in raids.
silver wagon
fair
knotty pond
best traits and essence for 8.3? just starting to gear my rogue
rigid mango
Dd np op ttk bbi all gonna be good
Just like, sim and wait
We don't know more than you do yet, balancing is still ongoing.
When the time comes for this all to matter, you'll know 😄
hidden inlet
Is there a guide on the 3EB SS build? I’ve seen a few ppl running it but I don’t see it mentioned on ravenholdt
arctic walrus
what is there to guide you on
hidden inlet
Normal raid build and ss build
Like do I fok on st and how to choose between tempest and hidden blade
arctic walrus
never hidden blade
hidden inlet
Also I’m curious would exsan be a better choice over TB if I’m going this all in aoe build
arctic walrus
pb for kr and tos/siege (tyr)
rest CT
exsang sucks
fok on 2+ targets
never CT or fok on 1 target
that's the whole guide for ya
cobalt pelican
exsang is prolly only worth if you're folly gaming and liderally can't cast tb
hidden inlet
Thanks that pretty much answered all my questions
Didn’t know hidden blade is that bad
I was just destroyed by a hidden blade rogue
On my warlock btw
arctic walrus
you need a lot of fok casts to make it on par with the other 2
you can get by with it sure
hidden inlet
I was doing 62k on FH and he did 70k
arctic walrus
but other choices are better
plain moon
My guild made huge prog tonight and were so close to a Azshara kill and now we have to take 2 weeks off for holidays and not kill the boss. can somebody cry with me 
hidden inlet
That’s sad
cobalt pelican
look on the bright side, you get to relax for holidays and get ez kill afterwards just in time for the new raid
hidden inlet
I’m one of the few without clf4 in my guild and they agreed to take a break until next raid goes live
😩
arctic walrus
that's a pretty long break
cobalt pelican
feels like a lot of people forget that the raid isn't on patch day
i wouldn't mind a nice long break though if everyone else would show up again later but it's hard to guarantee that in most guilds
hidden inlet
They will it’s a very old guild with solid roster
Just that they’re exhausted since we haven’t taken any break since bfd due to cos
cobalt pelican
yeah that's fair
arctic walrus
one of the best things about fast prog
is being done after 3 weeks
then practically break for 4 months
hidden inlet
It usually take us ~2 months to finish the tier, 4 days a week
But people tend to disappear during progression of last boss
mighty elm
runic tinsel
What are the azerite traits you want to stack for assassination? only ever played sub in BFA but want to give assa a try
obtuse cedar
Dd np op ttk bbi all gonna be good
Zine message a little higher in the channel
Can also mention swirling sands/loyal
runic tinsel
im gonna have to google what that means, but thank you 🙂
verbal mantle
Double Dose, Nothing Personal, Twist the Kinfe, Blightborne Infusion
runic tinsel
ah thank you 🙂
verbal mantle
you should also check the pins and sim yourself to figure out which pieces are the best for you
runic tinsel
yeah, ive simmed what i already have, just switched over from sub
seems like my chest is that worst it can be, shrouded suffocation and echoing blades on that thing
scent of blood is pretty much useless right?
verbal mantle
not for raiding at least, sometimes its used in some specific m+ asssa builds
runic tinsel
I see 🙂 thank you
verbal mantle
you're welcome :)
runic tinsel
another thing im wondering. does assa dps fluctuate alot? i do 28k dps during vendetta downtime and with it up i do 40k. this is without any buffs or flask
(on a dummy)
verbal mantle
mostly depends on your trait/talent build I guess
the way you're using Toxic Blade
runic tinsel
oh, there are nuances to toxic blade? im just using it on CD
runic tinsel
oh right, i didnt even think about pooling tbh
verbal mantle
to be sure to cast 3 envenom in the TB window
runic tinsel
should i try to make sure garrote and rupture has atleast 9 sec duration before toxic blade?
and is it better to use it with 3-4 combo point than with no combo points at all?
verbal mantle
just be sure your bleeds never go off
and TB with 3 CP max
you can mutilate then tb to instantly cast an envenom
verbal mantle
anytime :)
runic tinsel
wound poison is for PvP right?
strange python
how is vers for sin? in m+
verbal mantle
i really dont know about wound poison since I dont do PvP a lot, but i guess it fits
you should take that question to #pvp to have a real answer about that
arctic walrus
Vers is your third best stat in m+ after Crit and mastery
strange python
yeah i know 
, but what percentages should i go for? i have like 8% haste from neck and wep, then 38% mastery unless i go ham on mastery, then 54% but then 30%crit. With 38% mastery however i can go up to 42% crit and 8% vers. Simming doesnt work either cus it just want me to go haste, im not too good at adjusting the sim options
vast forum
depends on dungeon and level 😛
what traits do you have for m+?
if you have 3 EB vers might outvalue mastery on big pulls
strange python
3x shrouded, 1 np, 1 BBI and 1 EB
vast forum
don't stack vers then 😛
strange python
aight
vast forum
with your build, stacking mastery is likely better than crit even
strange python
then 54% it is:-) Thanks
arctic walrus
Only at 2+ eb will you want stacking crit over mast
strange python
Hey guys, So does vendetta snapshot garrote?
In other words say i open from stealth; Should i do vendetta - garrote, or garrote - vendetta?
terse orchid
Iirc nothing snapshots anymore for rogue
royal lantern
you dont want too overwrite a subterfuge garrote with a normal one,just overwrite it with a vanish garrote on the pandemic timer
strange python
ah cheers
shut pasture
@royal lantern i think you're wrong about fury
shrewd iron
A dumb question but on Queen's Court, the repeat performance debuff you get, do I have to envenom after first mutilate or is it worth getting silenced for 2 seconds?
arctic socket
Feint/step etc
verbal mantle
kick too
arctic socket
Just use different abilities
verbal mantle
mut > kick > mut
arctic socket
Never 2-3 cp env
verbal mantle
never ever
steep obsidian
i get silenced all the time on taht fight heh
i dont think its huge if you arent energy capped
¯_(ツ)_/¯
i m pretty sure detect traps works though
cobalt pelican
it does but you don't really need it between kick evasion and tricks
arctic socket
I like to rotate between feint/kick for that boss
cobalt pelican
unless you're really unluck
shrewd iron
Oh that's smart! 🙂 Thx a lot guys!
steep obsidian
i wouldnt feint on that fight cept on the scary points of the explosions
having it on cd for a dicey moment seems like a bad idea
when you have other optoins anyway
shrewd iron
so the spell ''Detection'' works to get around that debuff?
steep obsidian
yes the one you get from the glyph
verbal mantle
never tried, I always used kick, evasion and tricks
shrewd iron
Ok that's great 🙂
inner sonnet
what trinkets do people think are best for M+? currently running coral/font, font just seems kinda clunky for forti weeks, unless it's AD or smth with big pack pulls
rigid mango
Coral + spyglass
Font is dope for organized big pulls but also wouldn't use double on use in m+.
arctic socket
Spy/coral is nice but font can be really good on some pulls but that’s if you’re group is not brainded
Dice is decent also
inner sonnet
cool, thought one of the M+ trinks might be good, cheers all
small folio
why is coral so good? is clunky to use imo and more often than not adds die too fast for it to stack up to decent amount of crit?
rigid mango
Because you can essentially always have crit up
steep obsidian
getting tied to one target kind of sucks balls
small folio
yea thats what im thinking, you kinda have to stick to one target. and on lower keys where things die in an instant you get maybe 4 stacks on normal trash mobs
are there no better trinkets?
rigid mango
That's fine, you just carry that crit over to next pack
You pretty much never reuse it
cobalt pelican
coral is the best trinket by a decent margin
small folio
aitait, thank
safe stratus
Does master assassin empower ink pod pop like coral does?
split veldt
is subterfuge still good for M+?
rigid mango
Yep
split veldt
so switch to subterfuge, blood of the enemy and purification protocal?
rigid mango
Strife > PP but yeah
split veldt
oh really, that vers is that good eh?
rigid mango
Vers is great, scales with EB and all your aoe damage in general.
rigid mango
split veldt
what's the current best haste food called?
cobalt pelican
baked port tato
split veldt
drowsy snow
is strife the play over vision minor for bote major in m+?
shrewd iron
Why do the majority of ppl play strife on queen's court and not focusing iris? When I check warcraftlogs at least
drowsy snow
feelycraft is that you drop the iris stacks in multibleeding
arctic walrus
and the swapping lessens the effectivness of iris
cobalt pelican
not if you have conflict no
if you don't it's probably the best 2nd even with it resetting
hot urchin
Hey all, for M+ major essences, which is better, condensed or BotE?
mainly for tyrannical weeks too like this week
young portal
hot urchin
Ty!
fleet whale
yeah never use condensed in M+, it's probably about 4th best in M+
hidden inlet
How much boss damage do you guys pull with 3EB3SS setup? Trying out this build but my boss damage is like disaster
Pretty damage on trash pulls tho
I’m doing like 35k even with potion
cobalt pelican
if you don't have bote/vend for the opener it's pretty ass
and even if you do have bote the nature of it means sometimes you randomly just don't do damage because numbers
rigid mango
Just run VoP and blast bosses 
dim steppe
how do you guys sim for m+?
soft bluff
Not sure how accurate a dungeon slice is
dim steppe
ya last I heard dungeon slice isn't good, that was from a pro
rigid mango
not
You can try to sim diff target counts for 40s-1min
othewise just go as many SS as possible and then as many Eb as possible
Crit to 35-40% rest mastery, vers is aight
no haste
cobalt pelican
A Pro
rigid mango
Meh you can try to sim w/ever target count you want
anything from 3-8 etc
more probably
shrewd iron
@cobalt pelican So if I have C&S multidotting the encounter is the best way to go if we're progressing or run Iris and stick to one under progress?
cobalt pelican
it's not really a progress vs no progress thing, and you wouldn't change how you play whether you have iris or conflict
it's just optimal to dot them both when convenient and conflict loses less than iris to do so
shrewd iron
Ok thanks 🙂
steep dome
so 3 garrotes with sub and then 2 ruptures?
steep dome
so you wouldnt be using at the start of a trash pull untill after bleeds are up then?
rigid mango
I wouldn't use it before I want to be env, no
steep dome
kk tyvm
wet zealot
assassination or outlaw for m+ ?
arctic socket
During MA opener do i need to use azerite boi after garrote or rup?
rigid mango
bruther
arctic socket
Pins Say before vendetta
arctic socket
leaden lichen
does anyone have a log of them doing the zaqul hold dps strat that I could look at?
leaden lichen
Well, would vop minor be a good choice for that strat to help line up vendetta?
rigid mango
If you're doing two echos, yes
In general, yes
Like, the boss doesn't have anything that's hard outside of just killing them consistantly, use vop and then you can see on prog if it's worth it, timings might be scuffed for you. People used VoP on early prog w the hold strat so I'd assume it still works the exact same way.
leaden lichen
Yea, ive been holding all my cds until i go down in g1 delirium to pump, but im leaving a lot of p2 dps on the table doing that
Ill give it a shot tonight, thanks again
drifting cloud
we usually have to hold dps in p2 anyways
drifting cloud
so hysteria stacks drop off
before next dread
its only like 5s at 52% or whatever
drifting cloud
yeah I just want the boss to die screw logs
leaden lichen
we tried the burn strat and just suck, so we changed to holding last week
drifting cloud
doesnt even give all star points anyways 
drifting cloud
gotta do something if youre reclearing atleast
rigid mango
called boosting ™️
drifting cloud
was pretty sad when I got the udie on azshara last kill
dead for 1min still like a 70% log
not good enough to boost, sorry!
rigid mango
I don't have a QA log above grey
Bec I killed it once, and then again 2nd week and then it's been trials testing ground
drifting cloud
ye ye nice excuse 
rigid mango
Both times I just inted since people fucked up stacks and I just sucided for the kill
My one fucked log
knotty pond
what are the wep wep chants
quasi rune
hey so im new to the class over all and I like assassination but i know the outlaw is the better m+ spec is it easy to keep both specs relatively even as far as gear or am i better to put more time into one or the other?
rigid mango
Easier to gear as outlaw
quasi rune
@rigid mango thank you 😄
daring cave
Hows Sin doing this week in Mythics?
rigid mango
Always really good.,
daring cave
Whats good for traits i guess ST?
rigid mango
For m+? 3 SS EB.
daring cave
Yeah sorry lol m+.. ok im running 3SS
strange python
which one of the WAs has correct bleed pandemics?
rigid mango
Hopefully all of them?
strange python
alright, i'll check
civic palm
Some of them might do CP dynamic timers, dunno about that though.
rigid mango
Do yours?
civic palm
No chance of that.
rigid mango
Lazy.
hidden bay
my wa's dont have pandemic timer either 
civic palm
brb learning Blizzards' LUA fork real fast.
rigid mango
Imagine needing them 
hidden bay
ye boii 
civic palm
You can just refresh on an average and lose an unknowable amount of DPS.
hidden bay
do you pool energy before tb? @civic palm
civic palm
Just remember your past CP usage over the entire fight 😛
hidden bay
🤔
civic palm
Depends on my mood 
hidden bay
what is more important, elaborate uptime or envenom? 🤔 @civic palm
rigid mango
imo vend uptime.
civic palm
During Vendetta, BL, opener, last 4 seconds of a fight, burst windows, boss DMG amp...
?
civic palm
The WHOLE THING?!?! I would say...
NOT using Envenom is a bad idea, but that's not your question.
rigid mango
Not using finishers is bad idea
hidden bay
I AM NOT ASKING U 😡
rigid mango
Miz is typing a bible
civic palm
pool before TB so that you can get 2-3 (preferably 3 ENVs during TB), stack as many overlapping damage mods as possible, kill boss within 45 seconds, uhhh...
rigid mango
biiiiiiiible
civic palm
I am editing my SNARK, sir.
rigid mango
Oof, we're getting edited snark now huh.
civic palm
Almost everything I type ends up edited somehow.
Otherwise there would be typos and shit.
rigid mango
That was intentional.
civic palm
and that's just whack.
rigid mango
idk how u edit so fast but meh
civic palm
This is offtopic, I use LEFTCTRL for some keybindings.
Also, WHY THE FUCKING TEST?!?!! @hidden bay
hidden bay
civic palm
TBonCD, forgot one.
Also EP tends to have higher value than ENV due to how it be but is impossible to clip consistently outside of the opener or during higher stores of energy so people tend to "fall back" on clipping ENV though that's not entirely accurate.
hidden bay
good good
civic palm
btw if you're grillin me I expect some BBQ or something after this.
civic palm
Perv
tender frost
What essences is everyone using for EP as sin?
tender frost
ok that's what I have, I was just checking wowgraphs and a lot of the tops have bote equipped
midnight comet
does shroud stack?
arctic walrus
the damage yes, the cp no
rose sky
do we go CT or PB for keys?
rigid mango
Pb for kr/tos/siege ct rest
rose sky
perfect ty
strange python
M+ bote opener with 3x ss and no EB. Do I still spam fok 5x?
After initial 3x G R Env
vagrant eagle
EB should be stacked or just one trait is optimal?
gray flower
should i feel bad about wanting to go Orc even though their racials are the lowest dps?
cant tell if its significant
drifting cloud
its not, orc is fine
arctic socket
Any tips on opener on Mythic fishy boy? (Open on the puffer or boss?)
harsh sphinx
for what. parsing?
harsh sphinx
depends on the kill time but. starting on fish then not getting the 4th puffer and killing it before then is ideal
drifting cloud
5:24
harsh sphinx
gl
tell me about it
runic tinsel
How is the opener like with master assassin? Ive been doing Garrote, 4-5CP rupture, Vendetta, Toxic blade when at 3-4 CP, vanish+envenom.
been told to open with 2x Mutilate and rupture to get the master assassin crit bonus on the entire rupture. is that a thing?
runic tinsel
thank you, what does CLF and Bote mean though?
i got back to the game pretty recently
chilly granite
Condensed Life-force and blood of the enemy.
runic tinsel
ah, i see. thank you
seems like I have to farm blood of the enemy then. Condensed life force is the one from the raid thats about to get nerfed to the ground right?
drifting cloud
yeah the nerf is pretty decent
light pebble
Are the assassination traits 9n herodamage still the best to go off or is there a certain 'meta' stack you should have and then fill the rest (eg. 3x DD, 1x SS)
quasi pewter
whatever sims best
honest needle
does anyone here use towelliee elv ui ?
shrewd night
How is that a assa question
frank scroll
@here algun español alto ilvl?
ember rover
@light pebble I'm not a fan of BiS lists, but in general, all pieces that have Overwhelming Power on them are great.
You should gun for Za'qul helm, Gorak'tul's shoulders and Behemoth chest.
shrewd night
@frank scroll English only.
frosty talon
isnt Mastery that storng now days for Mythic+ with 2xSS 2xEB 2xTtK?
candid anvil
what azerite powers do you play in m+ this week when it's tyrannical(thanks peri)? 3eb 3ss means so bad dps on bosses..
strange python
You mean tyrannical or?
candid anvil
yeah, sorry
strange python
depends on the dungeon but for the most part(e.g not sob or KR, arguable in TOS etc) you still want 3xSS/3xEB or 3xSS/2xEB/1xTTK, your boss damage shouldn't be awful if you play well
rigid mango
3 eb ss for most, kr/tos/siege you can drop some eb, wouldn't play more than 1, and just play stuff like ttk, bbi, 1 np, etc.
candid anvil
how about 3eb 2ss 1ttk? is 3ss 3eb better than that?
rigid mango
3 ss is prio.
candid anvil
okay
nova elm
hey guys, am I right to assume that assassination is the best compromise between raid and m+ viability for 8.3?
rigid mango
It's the best in raid and S tier in m+ whilst outlaw is S+
nova elm
I know it's all speculation for now but it seems assassination will do more single target damage
@rigid mango kk cool. the only downside for m+ being if tanks won't let you stealth you lose a ton of damage, am I right?
rigid mango
Pretty much.
nova elm
ty, @rigid mango
stuck knoll
Well and also the way you have to get azerite for sin
But that’s not an actual mechanics of the class thing
It’s just down to how azerite works
nova elm
@stuck knoll meaning m+ and raid azerites are pretty different for assassination?
for outlaw they are pretty much the same, AFAIK
strange python
hey guys what is the best major+minor essences for 17to20ich keys on tyrn weeks
brave vector
I think BotE, Lucid, CnS are pretty much set in stone for us every week
strange python
so i play with these essences all the time
brave vector
I mean some higher level rogues may have another opinion but from watching selis stream I don’t think I’ve ever seen him switch off them
strange python
alright thanks for the info 🙂
olive topaz
I recall him using Vision over CnS last time.
strange python
yeah i have seen some ppl playing with vision also but wasn't sure how
rigid mango
Vision works since you get a second use of your CD's on bosses in scenarios you wouldn't
you use vanish freely and just have it up for 1.5 min after pull on bosses
so on pull you have vend + bote, 1.5 min later you have same + vanish
So essentially two openers
strange python
but i guess thats only if u are dealing with high hp targets where u can get 2 openers otherwise cos ?
olive topaz
Sometimes it's also nice to vanish before pack when that silly emiss keeps you in combat. :v
rigid mango
It's for bosses, not high hp targets
Honestly, strife is really good for both aoe and st.
VoP feels awesome and for bosses it's dope, outside of bosses it's not super impactful unless you've got prio every 1.5 min
It felt great to use in KR for example, where vend is more impactful than a dungeon with more mongo aoe.
strange python
yeah i do think its better on less heavy aoe dungeons
strange python
thoughts on double primary stat proc trinkets in m+? e.g pvp+alchemy trinkets
rigid mango
Sounds pretty mediocre.
strange python
but EB has a 100% crit rate right? so it doesn't really benefit from crit chance as long as your initial fan crits 5 targets? in that case wouldn't primary stat be better on trash heavy weeks?
cobalt pelican
crit still applies to like.. all of your spells
and i think you're underestimating what level of crit you need to guarantee 5 echos on every fok
weary marten
I have a stupid question but has anyone ever considered as Assa for ST to play with BotE major + vision of perfection minor ? so both are almost same cooldown
cobalt pelican
yeah, people play it on zaqul
on other fights it runs into too many issues where like
you have no trinket for every other vendetta, or vanish
and on a lot of fights you won't even gain a net vendetta by the end (depending on kill length)
weary marten
ok thanks for answer
i just got my BotE rank 3, raiding tonight first time i wanna test it as major, with lucid dream and life force minor ?
cobalt pelican
probably bote/lucid/iris but sim
subtle tundra
its not good for pure single target
the fights its used on is used because of timings
shy dust
You can test it but it’s a fact outside of like zaqual and azshara. Blood is worse than CLF
mighty torrent
hey guys want to try some M+ assasination this week as finally got my 3rd SS trait. Build im running is 3EB, 3SS and 1TTK, on trash should I just spam FoK and only spend Combo points to keep ruptures up on 5 targets? or should i weave some envenoms in there too?
mighty torrent
haha good spot, 2EB 1TTK and 3ss ^^
rigid mango
You can
And you should at some target counts
6t 3 eb - 8t 2 eb - 10t 1 eb
You ignore cp
ASsuming ~40% crit
mighty torrent
perfect, thanks for the response Zine that was what i was looking for. And am i right in thinking roughly 40% crit and 30% mastery with little haste?
rigid mango
Probably want some more mastery but yeah
You want to keep CT up, you want to keep 4-5 bleeds up, 4 if you have blood, 5 if not
Those bleeds being empowered garrotes or ruptures
mighty torrent
perfect thanks so much Zine 👍
dry terrace
anyone know if there's an error, echoing blades not proccing for me in orgozoa
i got 3 traits
rigid mango
Re-equip the pieces
ashen solar
pad build 
vast forum
https://gyazo.com/05fe4f43fcd04beef369b9008f9f132e today was most definitely not a good day
rigid mango
vast forum
any item, in any slot with any stats would have been an upgrade at 450 socket
other than shit trinkets...
strange python
worth using 435 pieces to get 1-2 echoing blades rather than 3x SS+ttk+BI+NP for m+?
rigid mango
Probably worth dropping the Np for it.
fleet whale
what were the devs thinking when they made My'das talisman
cobalt pelican
they always want some dead items to make the not dead items feel relevant
tough dome
how is gorak tul’s for mythic +? rolled a 450 version this week and I have 450 pistoleer’s on right now. I was thinking it may be better for dungeons where I can drop eb down to one and focus more ST?
rigid mango
better for stuff like KR.
arctic walrus
do I go with the 430? The crit is also 1% higher but just a rounding error shows equal 34%
m+ btw
harsh sphinx
if it has a socket i don't see why not
both look fine could use a bit more crit i guess
inner leaf
What traits do we want?
arctic walrus
for what
inner leaf
General single target I suppose
strange python
Minimum amount for targets to use CT? 3?
arctic walrus
Ct use on 2 targets+
ST you want stacked double dose, 1 nothing personel, blightborne's infusion, and twist the knife, loyal is also good
your bis set up is 2 dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ttk 1 loyal
fallow otter
@arctic walrus have any luck getting rid of the log? I know what you mean now about the logs profile page
arctic walrus
no there's no way to hide it
my profile page is fine, it's moreso an issue with allstar and it being public vs private
#wow-general btw
noble pilot
Is using Poisoned Knife to offtargets with no bleeds to apply Deadly Poison considered a net damage increase or loss? I have 2 DD traits but can't recall the exact amount of mastery
arctic walrus
3 targets you should be using muts to build bleeds on them
4+ you're using fok
never use knife
runic tinsel
in AoE scenarios, once i got my ruptures up, do i just spam envenom unless i need to refresh ruptures? and do i use garrote at all in AoE if i got no SS traits?
arctic walrus
You don’t
magic fossil
hi, if i just used my font of azhara's, my coral will be in cd, should i wait coral be up to open vendetta or open vendetta and when coral become available uses it?
crisp hollow
do you envenom with the buff uptime in mind or just spam as many of them as you can like you would within TB windows?
tropic ocean
@magic fossil
- Use font 4s precombat and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown.
- Then, with in-fight Font, the idea is to hold Vendetta(+Vanish) a bit to make it also profit from Coral. It's a gain to hold it until Coral is ready (hence the 20s condition above) but...
- If a Toxic Blade is coming up before Coral (which is the case in default fight timings) it's better to Vendetta right before TB and then use Coral ASAP.
@crisp hollow well if u know u can fit 3 envenom into tb u might as well clip the last one but its minor usually just 2-3 envenom into tb thats it not actively caring about the buff
crisp hollow
sorry I meant outside of TB windows, ik to fit in as many as I can during TB
tropic ocean
wouldnt really worry about it
just dont overcap energy or cp without letting bleeds drop and spend every excess into envenom
rotation basically fixes itself
noble pilot
@arctic walrus I am referring to situation when off target is far away and you can choose whether to apply Deadly Poison to it via Poisoned Knife or nothing at all. Something like Queen's Court fight when you are not multibleeding.
brisk forge
Just throw a knife, will get back the energy b4 u’ll reach the boss. But i dont think its woth the fuss tho
arctic socket
Is loyal only worth taking if people in your group using it? Or by default Is the mastery worth it
verbal mantle
For me, it was worth it when at least 4 others raid members got it
arctic socket
So a group based trait hmm... time to inspect people
verbal mantle
yep, ask your guildies
you can sim it as well
by choosing 4 LTTE allies in settings
vast forum
maybe every1 wants to use it but every1 sees that no1 else is using it 😄
probably worth to still ask people if they have it/want to use it
autumn slate
Can someone flame my logs I dont get a chance to improve this tier because we're extending till azshara dies or we get 8.3?
vast forum
use CLF before vend in opener
also not a huge deal but try to use coral with first global, rather than 10 seconds into the fight 😛
other than that your sivarra log seems fine and you should try to get a font if you want a better one 😛
arctic socket
It says he has a font
vast forum
well he didn't use it on his best sivarra pull, and that's the only thing i looked at so far
it was coral+ inkpod
autumn slate
Fair enough
arctic socket
mental obsidian
does dropimizer take into account the mechagon ring combinations?
cause it says they are a dps loss
cobalt pelican
you would need one equipped for it to count the set bonus cause droptimizer is item by item
desert pelican
how important on pure aoe like m+ without priority target is using env for buff uptime? more chance to proc deadly vs just spam fok with 3 echoes, whats better?
shut garnet
it all depends on how many echoing you're running (and what crit), then that determines how many target you should JUST FoK spam on etc
but generally aim to have 2 echoing with 40% crit at least, and then the FoK target spam count is like 6 i think?
vast forum
hello fellow assassination rogues
it would appear as if overwhelming power has been nerfed in 8.3 so the proc is no longer hasted
are we witnessing the rise of gutripper/unstable flames?
outer lotus
Where do you have that information from? @vast forum
vast forum
heard it from a friend who heard it from dh disc, doesn't seem to be 100% confirmed yet tho 😛
cobalt pelican
shows as not hasted anymore but
it's really hard to tell with ptr stuff
if it's intended
what should show
i kinda doubt any other traits will overtake it even if it's not hasted; might make it so that you actually consider the downside part of it even if it sims slightly better still
vast forum
tbh the "op" thing about OP is that when it procs, it increases its own proc rate and then it just chain procs
outer lotus
Hm. I kinda hope it gets nerfed, getting OP is far too important atm in my opinion
vast forum
it's far too important in the sims
slightly less in reality
that's not to say it's not the best 3rd ring trait
outer lotus
Thing is that most unavoidable damage doesnt actually make u lose stacks so the downside barely comes into play
Not 100% sure which raid mechanics make you lose stacks or not but last season with the crucible boots i tracked the stacks and most of the aoe damage in dungeons didnt make you drop the stacks
rigid mango
Don't know what'll be best, it's still really good as is, if anything this just solidifies the shoulders and chest from last 2 as bis.
sour glade
So I'm newly playing my rogue in M+, running 12-14 keys right now, if I don't have BotE yet, what major should I run? Been running Iris. And it sounds like I should run lucid and C&S as minors? I think I'm running lucid and crucible minors right now.
brave vector
If you don’t have BotE run iris yes
We pretty much don’t change lucid minor out for anything, and preferably CNS in the 3rd slot but yesterday they were talking about vision in the 3rd slot being pretty good for decent boss damage
arctic socket
You always run lucid as a Minor. If you don’t have BoTE run iris as a major with Cdlf visions can be nice but work on getting BoTE r3 it’s very very nice
sour glade
Thanks. I'm going to start grinding BotE.
atomic willow
are the mechagon rings looking really good in 8.3 when you can run it in M+ or think the JC ring with socket will still prolly be better?
sour glade
Would 420 azerites with better powers be better than 435s with worse powers?
atomic willow
what do you mean normal rings.....like normal raid?
oh wow.....ty
so jc not that great in 8.3 for rogues
arctic socket
Jc is nice to go until you get the mech rings
sour glade
Trying to use top gear to figure out the answer, but I guess I can't since I don't already have the 420s. I'm trying to decide whether to spend the residuum I have buying 420s or a single 435. Seems like it only works for gear you have in your inventory?
atomic willow
gear compare
sour glade
Thanks. I'm a noob at this stuff
arctic socket
Not able to do heroic to get the easy 430s?
sour glade
I'm going to start trying to pug heroic EP this week, but haven't been able to do so yet. Guild is just me and a handful of friends, about a half dozen of us
So for now it's just been M+ and residuum for azerite
sullen tartan
When using font and coral should I be prefonting before pull, doing a vendetta opener (applying coral asap) and then popping font again 19 seconds before my next vendetta coral window?
rose violet
Yes
sullen tartan
Thanks, figured as much. On ashvane I've been coraling pull and fontint 19 seconds before p2 as I can't fit a font cd in. I assume this is also correct?
rigid mango
You want to font, 14 sec later vend, 6 sec after that you coral
There's no reason to font so early in p2
Well, before p2
You really want to font just as you phase to get all of font in there, and popping rest or cd's 14 sec later
The "only" font window is still a lot of dmg
vagrant tapir
Tanking azsahara console
You click the console
Get the debuff
THEN cloak rightr?
Do you do all 3, then cloak, or
subtle dust
do my envenoms always benefit from the elaborate planning they proc? or only those that are cast when the buff is active?
dark crag
The later one
subtle dust
alright thanks
oblique moon
What else do you guys try to min max during rotation other than 1) trying to get as many envenoms off in elaborate planning window and 2) trying to get as many mutilates as you can off in envenom buff window
And obviously using toxic blade on cd and getting as much dmg as you can off within that...am I missing anything?
rigid mango
That's about it
brave vector
But what about POOLING zine
rigid mango
1-2 are essentially pooling questions
royal lantern
pooling is getting as many envenoms as possible out lol
brave vector
oblique moon
How often do you guys find yourselves having to rupture within toxic blade? Is this something that it’s even possible to be able to completely avoid if you should never holding tb for like 5+ seconds?
rigid mango
You can rupture outside of pandemic if all you're losing is 2~ sec if it means not reapplying during tb
oblique moon
Is pandemic 7 for rupture ?
tropic ocean
7.2 for 5 cp
edgy pawn
quasi pewter
no
ripe gulch
so guys, what stats should i try to prioritize first?
i see a lot of top rogues with mastery
top m+ rogues*
but idk if thats good for raiding as well
icy ember
it seems like haste(?) might be your go to option for enchants at the higher levels 50k+
but IDK, for raiding anyway 
rigid mango
50k is defo not high
And no, vers is probably the best at the top end.
But that's all within sim diff and personal diff (:
icy ember
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gF5DrcsybxmhVbWYqthNhd heres a sim w/1mil+ w/all gems and all enchants, seems like haste is the way to go
drifting cloud
yeah why use better trinkets
lone junco
do you cloak before channeling font, so you can just stand in fire for a sec?
dapper bough
is there any point in playing assa if i dont have CLF rank 3 or bote rank 3 ?
rigid mango
Depends in what you compare it to
But if you don't have those you probably don't have anything good for any spec 😄
drifting cloud
I mean it doesnt take that long to get clf3
and in EP you can run it on every boss, bote is just better on last 2 mythic but by no means necessary
dapper bough
xd
CLF is easy to get yeah but it's gated behind lockout
And i'm dumb because i have bote rank 3
so disregard my question
xd
trim forge
I know the sim answer, but curious about QoL for this question (I dont particularly care for scent stacking)
3xEB sims a touch higher for me than 2xEB & 1x scent for dungeon slice ... will this impact my ST in any meaningful way?
rigid mango
Scent gives shite ST anyways
trim forge
cool, just messing around late patch and not much sin exp since legion
rigid mango
Just go 3eb.
royal lantern
^
trim forge
perfect, thanks!
royal lantern
scent is one of those " sounds cool in theory, is really not that great in reality" traits
trim forge
yeah, I think in my mind I need to scent everything to be effective
like look at me ... I am doing things and stuff
outer lotus
Pls don't scent me
smoky widget
Best essences for sin in arenas?
smoky widget
Thanks
tender frost
hey, I have a question. If I'm using the master assasin rotation from ravenholdt.. when is the appropriate time to use my essence ? after the rotation or should I get it off during the master assassin buff to crit ?
rigid mango
There's a small opener section in the pins
tender frost
Does icy veins have all the rotations though? I normally switch based on my sims that's why I still go to the website for refreshers.
cobalt pelican
you basically won't end up raiding with anything except master assassin toxic blade when you're geared
which should be covered in full
(at least for current tier, god knows what the future holds)
tender frost
So your essence becomes useless? I don't think so.. that wasn't my question. My question was when do I use the essence spell during my rotation. I wanted to know if MA empowered Condensed life force or not.. and like Zine said, its in the pinned notes.. and states that it is not affected by MA and to do the normal opener followed by the essence.
drifting cloud
except you wrote essence like 4 times and I still cant figure out which one you mean
so no need to get pissy for no reason
doesnt seem to be clf, since youd use that one before MA
tender frost
doesnt matter what essence it is lmfao its not affected by MA regardless
not pissy.
tender frost
the note literally says.. CLF after MA window *
drifting cloud
well theres 2 MA windows in the opener, and you do use clf before the 2nd one
fallow otter
It says before vend, this is pretty simple
tender frost
^
I mean, Zine pointed me in the right direction.. don't undestand why this dude has his panties in a knot all of a sudden.. I asked an hour ago rofl
fallow otter
Which is what @drifting cloud is saying
drifting cloud
🤣 ok my bad, you got this tough guy
buoyant hawk
Opener if u crit is literally mut rup mut gar clf vendet tb vanish env mut env... and if u don’t it changes to mut mut rup gar mut clf then same as before
End of story 🙂
tender frost
It has nothing to do with being tough or not, I asked an hour ago and got an answer. Whether my essence was CLF or BOT.. the note friggen tells me all the info rofl
crisp hollow
can someone more intelligent than me explain how significant the OP change is in practice?
drifting cloud
decently big, but it doesnt really matter in practice, we're kinda locked in azerite pieces
arctic walrus
more in line with other traits
still likely to be ahead
it will moreso affect classes with huge haste boosts, like dh
scarlet urchin
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
honest needle
how come when i have weakauras and weakauras options addons turned on my addon mb goes up to 600mb soon as i disable weakaura options it drops down to 100
why is weakaura options using so much ram
buoyant hawk
Not really a question for here but depending on the size and how many u have running at once, some weakauras have a lot that go into them
honest needle
well all my weakauras still work when i disable weakaura options
turning off wekaaura options just makes it so my ram goes down a shit done
is that normal do most of u guys keep weakauras on and disable weakaura options for that same reason >
fathom wyvern
i disable all my weakauras whenever they arent used
and only have them load when needed, like encounters / in dung etc
shrewd night
@honest needle This is not an assassination question, this isnt the first time you are asking questions in the wrong channel.
noble pilot
I asked this question earlier but some seemed to have missed the point so trying to be exact as possible:
Let's say I am banging my target normally with normal priorities. There is secondary target far away from my primary target that I cannot reach or apply bleeds to. Is it however worth using Poisoned Knife on the secondary target just to apply Deadly Poison instead of spending that 40 energy for Mutilates on main target? For example, would I lose overall damage on Blackwater Behemoth encounter If I kept Deadly Poison ticking on pufferfish with Poisoned Knife?
shrewd night
afaik you're never going to actively use PK (mostly because of the energy cost) unless you are out of range from any target.
So in your example, you might use PK to not cap energy while swimmingg over to the pufferfish, but not while you are killing the pufferfish, or when you are nuking the boss itself.
distant lava
yeah that definetly sounds like a loss
shrewd depot
Any idea on the go-to essences for raid in 8.3? Haven’t really kept up to date with it much
zenith wren
Why tho
rigid mango
Probably very similar to rn + new ones.
We don't have sims and there's still time to balance values.
shrewd iron
I wonder if OP trait still will be bis next patch with the upcoming nerf
What do you guys think?
tropic ocean
🔮
outer lotus
Perhaps
tropic ocean
I think the higher ilvl azerite will be bis for sure and the other piece sims will tell
shrewd iron
the pieces from the last 2 bosses doesn't have OP traits right @tropic ocean ?
tropic ocean
Im not sure havent checked lately
but personally think 10 ilvl on base traits > op anyway, even before nerf
rigid mango
Just solidifies them in their slots, and helm probs same.
shrewd iron
Also, do you think the engineering crafted azerite Helmets have secondary stats on them or if it's just a bug?
rigid mango
Bug
shrewd iron
That's a shame 😦
tropic ocean
dw by the time you done farming mecha m+ sims will be out 
rigid mango
Idk, I'm just guessing, who knows maybe they just randomly give them secondary stats
shrewd iron
Yeah I also think it's a bug but it would be sweet if it's true tho
vast forum
there is no reason why they would add secondaries to azerite helms at this point
it would make them almost as good as the 485 ones
rigid mango
Would prob make bis since there aint a 485 helm
tepid reef
Heya guys, why is BoE bis in mm+ as assination ?
zenith wren
Because it's reliable damage that works both on st and aoe at a good cd and which buffs ur eb. And it has a nice passive on top of that
That doesn't affect you while switching targets
outer token
also you no need to stop and channel the iris, just spam FoK 😛
terse orchid
And because blizzard hates us and wants to lock BiS pve stuff behind pvp
rigid mango
😢
royal lantern
the way assassination does aoe dmg in m+ right now also gains a huge bonus by the BotE crit chance+ crit dmg(EB procs of crits and the EB procs itself are always critical strikes etc......)
and yeha, its also quite good in ST too, wich right now makes it the perfect essence for sin m+
minor thicket
Hey guys when I’m playing Subterfuge for m+ generally I can lower my haste and have higher crit and mastery correct
royal lantern
you dont want haste for m+
haste is more or less a pure single target stat right now
crit/mastery give you more aoe
zenith wren
You build haste for energy regen and for bleed tick, but in keys it's irrelevant because you get your energy from multi bleeding and boss fights tend not to last long
drifting pulsar
where would one go to check out essence sims for 8.3 ?
zenith wren
To a time machine
idle ember
what does blood of the enemy opener look like for subterfuge single target?
gusty mirage
@rigid mango I've seen some higher rated rogues going gar gar rupt on bosses and it genuinely confuses me
south bay
is nothing personal mandatory for single target assass
gusty mirage
I'm not as knowledgeable as others here but I don't think it's absolutely mandatory. It is really really nice to have one though. I think DD and at least 1 TtK are mandatory (the envenom buff helps make DD even better)
rigid mango
High rated people still play suboptimally
NP isn't mandatory, but really good. Sim is your friend.
vast forum
in high keys i try to save CPs before a boss so GRG gives a 5cp rup
marble hemlock
ideally you do what yoppa said