with shrouded suffocation aswell
#assassination
trail scarab
ashen solar
EB
trail scarab
alright ty
is it still decent if u dont have 3x eb?
or is that a very big part of your damage
lethal heart
triple eb is pretty much mandatory if you wanna compete in d amage
at least for some dungeons/high forti
trail scarab
unluck
lethal heart
there is probably some dungeons exceptions where you can play without triple eb
but probably majority of them is triple eb
especially this week
since teeming
trail scarab
ah alright
i thought it was that SS or whatever abbrevation u use for it that was the big deeps
the garrote damage
rigid mango
sim
deep meteor
ok ty
rigid mango
1 loyal ally is barely anything
inner cobalt
Hey guys, can someone help me why i do not so much dmg as assa? It seems i do everything ok but i think my dmg is too low. I played Assa on M Behemoth, Radiance and kill try ashvane.
Here is my log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jvTPDLqzxYpdrZVm/#fight=last&type=damage-done
rigid mango
you overcap cp on mut, you missed TB casts
you env before tb here for no reason
Cd usage is all overthe place
You should be going CLF>Vend>TB>Van
into finisher
inner cobalt
I will look into that, thank you
rigid mango
You're also playing undulating tides which is quite bad
inner cobalt
Scent of blood is better than UT?
strange python
nah but uts issue is the downtime on dmg spikes
rigid mango
Probably not, but you lose UT when u wanna deal dmg on ashvane so
really bad
in general
inner cobalt
hmm, kk, so i need to look for a better azerite shoulder
strange python
shoulder should be fine with np / dd
wise shoal
Is pve fun on rogues
white wyvern
fun is subjective.
wise shoal
I find rogue fun in pvp
white wyvern
Q: Is X spec fun? Is Y fun? Fun is subjective. Fun compared to what? Watching paint dry? Please stop asking this question. :upside_down:
From the #rules-and-guides
strange python
martiin, u should fix ur chest before shoulders :p
rigid mango
Yes rogue is good in any form of content in the game
there you go
It's top tier in literally every aspect
potent shard
I have a 442 assas rogue and only sim 42k am i doing something wrong? I see them pulling big numbers in EP but my dmg is awful.
drifting cloud
ilvl isnt everything
flint compass
Do you have all the benthic gear socketed and fully upgraded?
potent shard
Yeah i think the gear stat weights is the issue maybe. I have the base rotation down
rigid mango
Sounds like a rotation issue.
potent shard
No unfortunately i dont have any benthic gear
rigid mango
not having benthic = really bad
flint compass
There’s your problem
drifting cloud
benthic is 2-3k dps, if you sim 42 youre missin way more than just benthic
uncut burrow
I sim that at 431
potent shard
Damn, what the heck did i do to my poor assas rogue haha
flint compass
More like 2k per piece.
drifting cloud
if you say so
flint compass
@potent shard do you have a raidbot sim or logs to link?
potent shard
Anything noticeably wrong with my gear or stat weights?
flint compass
Looks like you need some haste...
scarlet sequoia
potent shard
My friend told me to stack crit, gave me bad advice haha
Gonna see if i can get some more haste on there
potent shard
It feels really clunky to play
rigid mango
yeah no kidding
strange python
crit wasnt that bad, it gains more value if u reach 20% haste arround and bethic boots
tall narwhal
hmm for hc azshara pug should i go bote major or clf major ?
tall narwhal
umm what do you mean by that ?
strange python
bote is in some cases good, good bursts for prio adds
and on hc u will probably nuke only azshara
the "good case" isnt available for bote
plush remnant
Should you worry about keeping ruptures on all adds and as many garrotes up as you can in m+ or mainly fotk spam?
arctic walrus
4 bleeds
plush remnant
which can be any combination of rupture and garrote?
plush remnant
Okay, and after 4 ruptures spam env into priority target
drifting cloud
doesnt have to be 4 ruptures at start since you have 3 garrotes running
graceful idol
guys, any1 know why I can't set my role as assa? the initial 10 mins have passed
oh what 😮
rigid mango
Huh?
graceful idol
I was confused at the start as when I clicked assa emoji, it went off instantly while the other roles didnt and stayed
but nvm, all good
rigid mango
strange python
i have a 430 shroud of unmooring
450 shoulderpads of frothing rage
450 blackwater
what should i roll for?
rigid mango
Check droptimizer
tropic ocean
Will you kill zaqul mythic anytime soon should be your question
If yes roll gorak tul, if no roll helm
steep token
Hi, I'm new to a Rogue and just learning assassination. I feel like I am not gaining energy fast enough, am I doing something wrong?
arctic walrus
No it be like that sometime
steep token
I learned Outlaw first and got kinda used to it but realized need to go Assassin for PvP/Single target... so it's a bit of getting used to.
Probably doesn't help that I have a 370 dagger I bought from the auction house. 🙂
crude stream
does shadowmeld benefit from the rogue subterfuge talent? After it breaks, we get powered garrotes and can cheapshot?
rigid mango
You can meld > stealth if you're not in a boss fight
If you are, you can meld > garrote and get the buff from the shrouded suffocation trait but nothing else
crude stream
So only shrouded suffocation helps with shadowmeld, not the 80%+ garrote from talent? interesting.
rigid mango
Yeah, outside of boss fights you can meld > stealth > reopen
And you get subterfuge etc
deft nymph
hmm can you restealth between bosses in KR 2nd to last boss
i know you can meld to get an extra potion, wonder if stealth works
rigid mango
Huh
arctic walrus
no
strange python
is it possible to sim for assa m+?
no matter what I do it just tells me to gem full haste
arctic walrus
yeah nothing really you can do
strange python
hmm yeah, I thought I'd tried that but evidently not
tells me to gem/ench full mastery
jagged ibex
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
oblique moon
Who’s the best raid streamer to watch?
onyx hedge
There is no best "raid streamer" depends e.g boss
oblique moon
Just really good rogues who stream weekly EP and I can watch and learn from
onyx hedge
Prob going to be hard to find people, tier is basically over, for e.g this is my guilds last raiding week. Still people doing it but not many, classic is majority of twitch as well
arctic walrus
Most of us just stream on reset day and that’s it for the week
onyx hedge
If your looking to learn how to play for e.g Sin Rog on fights in EP, i would search up for e.g Mythic Zaqul Assaination rogue PoV
arctic walrus
So just be around on Tuesdays for NA and Wednesday for EU
onyx hedge
^ ^
dim steppe
Should I worry about benthic bis on my 419 rogue? I mean I'll only be able to use them on normal and lfr 4 times. I feel like it's more important to get my ilvl up with M+ as well as trying to run TeP anyways so I'm not so far behind when patch day comes out. I spend like 2 hours a day trying to get benthics and I feel like its a waste.
arctic walrus
That is a waste benthic isn’t really that relevant both at your content level and the time in the patch we’re in
magic fossil
guys, i have 9% haste for m+, is that ok? Im done tons of damage, but sometimes a run out of energy in bosses. Give ur 2 cents about, plesae
rigid mango
As little as possible is good yah
You rely on procs such as op/lucid to help you on boss fights
inner sonnet
at this stage of the tier focus on ilvl, benthics are a waste of time to get a month of EP in them
crystal vault
Do you track envenom uptime to maximize dps, or you can’t really play around it?
rigid mango
You should get all your muts in the windows of it p much if you just play properly
Shouldn't need thinking tbh
crystal vault
i thought it would make a difference in pooling/re dotting
wanton flame
hey guys have a quick question, pinned message says use ori's or fathomstalker as wrist. i got a fathomstalker's wristwraps (i assume this is the correct fathomstalker) should i keep rolling for ori or this is good enough?
uncut burrow
The diff in puffer v frost is negligible. it's probably good enough.
wanton flame
aight thanks
crystal vault
you are 1 id late 😄
rigid mango
MP-subt-MFD-elusi-IB-TB-PB
zinc zodiac
ty
rigid mango
Thanks.
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
lone junco
back on that Sin train. yee. Guild is dying so I dont have to be a healer anymore.
lone junco
been doing some 2s and making people sad, and that makes me happy.
rigid mango
vestal wren
how far is 8.3 implementation in simc, i haven't followed the change log
rigid mango
No clue
I've heard literally 0 about it tbh
Started wondering the same, not entirely on topic regardless 😄
vestal wren
i would not lable it as offtopic given its relevant to the "future" of the spec
rigid mango
Sure, by association, not directly attached to sin either way. Dunno, ask mystler/koji ig.
hidden bay
any big simmers in here? 
rigid mango
carmine dawn
does sin have any best in slot weapons like folly and bile for Outlaw?
rigid mango
There are no effect daggers yet
So no, just highest ilvl essentially. There's a very small diff for secondary stats since all are good for us 😄
hidden bay
queen panther
basically any dagger that's high ilvl and doesn't have Intellect stats
rigid mango
queen panther
rigid mango
Casual 2k above me 
worn cloak
does hidden blades and legendary legion cloak stack together in TW?
outer lotus
the guide says that in the opener you mutilate up to 4+ CP, then vendetta and toxic blade. is that optimal even at 5 CP where you are guaranteed to overcap 1 cp?
rigid mango
Yes
Overcapping with TB is essentially ignored
It's more important to cast it where it's needed/on cd
outer lotus
all right ty. i usually raid outlaw but trying to give sin a try since my guild is getting closer to queens court
also how would the opener with coral/font and CLF look when my guild only does a 10 sec pull timer? font at 5 sec, stealth + prepot on 1 and then go as usually and just apply coral whenever it is back up from cd?
outer lotus
oh i thought you would font at 14 seconds or something
rigid mango
You do when it matters, i.e in combat
But there's no reason to waste that much uptime on font on pull
sturdy glacier
Hello i am new sin rogue player. Which is better as second azerite trait, Undulating tides or Scent of blood?
shut garnet
ashen solar
If you have to take one do scent of blood
Dont tell someone to sim undulating tides
It will sim highest but it isnt reliable
ashen solar
ig
echo jay
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
outer lotus
i just played sin the first time and beat my 98 best log on outlaw on first boss mythic by 5k dps FeelsBadMan
inner leaf
Which inscription trinket is good to buy when you hit 120
rigid mango
The one for melee
quiet parrot
durning Vendetta if im going to cap energy is it bad to re apply Envenom when its currently at like 5 / 4s ?
I feel like thats a bit early
rigid mango
You really don't need to play around env minmaxing
strange python
guys, how do i track the achievement Battlefield Brawler for bote when I did the achiev on my main already? 😦
is there a script maybe?
outer lotus
it still shows on your alt
strange python
nah it shows that i already got it
outer lotus
click on it and there is a progress bar
outer lotus
idk for me i could check it like that for alts
strange python
hmm 😦
worn cloak
eh i don't care that much about boss dmg tbh as trash is what matters
hitting knives and the trash dies instantly, is joy.
i don't farm tw though, just for because why not.
outer lotus
just check the next achievment then
battlefield tactician, or master or whatever its called
strange python
@outer lotus thanks mate 🙂
outer lotus
yea you do lol
outer lotus
well thats only for rank 2
strange python
yeah i dont have rank 2 on this char
outer lotus
go to the vendor and check if he sells it
strange python
yeah im flying xD
i will punch my monitor if i could have buy it all the time lol
outer lotus
how do you do battlegrounds without remembering it? lol
rigid mango
strange python
aye lulululu i can buy rank 2 hahahaa please can someone punch me in the face?
ah sorry @rigid mango
lone junco
@worn cloak its just the triple garrote on open. Let me know how the HB + EB + Cloak works out. I like deadshot outlaw with bracers as well
outer lotus
are you guys using cool downs on pull for ashvane? feels kind of awkward to use font + vendetta 1 min after pull
worn cloak
well pretty well, just on ST not so well, i do more on sub ST
but fully stacked knifes litereally one shots a trash pack
boss dmg is usually not really a problem, most of the time in TW is wasted on trash
i also use blademaster trinket and capacitor, but only because thats all i have. Capacitor likes to explode after trash is ded
carmine dawn
are there bis azerites traits like outlaw? pins arent very helpful. is double dose x3 the way to go?
rigid mango
3 dd 1 np bbi ttk 3 op or 2 dd 1 ttk np bbi loyal 3 op if you have max loyal
strange python
hey guys is 100% uptime on envenom a must? I usually let it drop if TB is coming up so i can pop it with full combos right before i TB
idk if i have it right
arctic walrus
You'll never have 100% uptime on it
strange python
rest of the time basically avoiding all overcapping
strange python
ye ofc i meant as an aim
arctic walrus
you try and keep it up as much as possible, but you end up around 75-80 is good
strange python
ok will check my %
arctic walrus
It's moreso that you fit in muts into the env window, especially with DD
arctic walrus
so if you env at no energy, and the buff drains and you got no muts off that's bad
but if you pooled, and get 2-3 muts in that's good
strange python
i thought it was for passive pioson dmg
wow i had no idea
great ty
gotta reread tooltips it seeems 🙂
outer lotus
hey is anybody willing to look over some logs of mine? went sin for raid today the first time
arctic walrus
sure
arctic walrus
looking at sivara here
Your opener is quite wrong
your tb windows should always start with an envenom
your ma windows are wrong, they need to be inside tb as well
outer lotus
what's ma?
strange python
as in TB > vanish?
outer lotus
master assassin!
strange python
mater assasin
outer lotus
ye got it
arctic walrus
i'll take pics sec
outer lotus
so i basically only want to use toxic blade at 4+ CP so i can follow with envenom?
arctic walrus
yeah
and also you reapply bleeds rather often inside the window as well
it can most likely be avoided
by being more proactive
strange python
does it matter if u CLF before or after vendetta?
outer lotus
yeah, so i should plan better so i am ready once TB comes off cd
arctic walrus
yes it does, and you do it before
outer lotus
you should CLF before so you dont waste vendetta uptime
strange python
k
rigid mango
😉
outer lotus
but im pretty sure i also messed that up a couple times. like i said, really new to sin so i messed up a bunch of things im sure
can you take a look at how i used my cds on ashvane? everything i tried was super awkward lol
im used to outlaw where i just AR on pull and save CLF for broken phase
arctic walrus
Ashvane's a bit all over the place cuz you can do it so many different ways, but it all depends on your lusts
I see here you're lusting on 2nd break, which tbh you are safe to just clf on pull
outer lotus
yea we lust on 2nd phase. so i just do the normal opener with vendetta and clf on pull?
then i should also be able to vendetta during the 2nd shielded phase and still get vendetta back during 2nd broken right?
arctic walrus
yeah for example in your kill you could've fit in an extra vendetta
outer lotus
you mean vendetta?
arctic walrus
yes 🙂
rigid mango
🙂
outer lotus
alright thank you! i think ill try sin a bit more in raids and hopefully improve
leaden lichen
does it cap at 4 bleeds?
leaden lichen
I kinda hijacked his question because ive seen the 4 bleed thing said before. What does this mean? I'm really new to sin rogue
arctic walrus
venomous wounds is an ability that grants you energy each time your bleeds (garrote and rupture) tick
when you have any combination of those bleeds, totaling 4, your regen will be equivalent to your output. So you are basically never depleted on energy
leaden lichen
hmm interesting, cheers
winter widget
Hello
With master assasin
Does it work when I use vanish and don't get out the stealth?
arctic walrus
yes
winter widget
Are there known shenanigans that can be done with that? Blackwater fish during stage change comes to mind
arctic walrus
No not really
because that means desyncing your cds
and it's not that huge of an increase anyway, bleeds are moreso for energy regen over damage
dark crag
Full bleeds vanish with legy shoulders at the pvp wqs in legion. Fun times
tepid fractal
right in the feels
magic thorn
Ok i was just arguing half a hour with my guilds rogue mate. Does Venomous wound tick twice if I have both garrote and rupture up on single target or is it just 1 tick as I think ?
rigid mango
Like do you think it ticks for less or just less often?
magic thorn
No I mean if I have both bleeds up it only gives once the energy so I have to have 4 targets to get energy neutral
Not 2 targets and both bleeds on them
fleet whale
CLF got another ptr nerf, casts bolts every 2.5 secs instead of every 2
crystal vault
bote here we come again
vast forum
i doubt bote will overtake clf even with nerf
urban frigate
its what 3 fewer casts over the duration
so we get to max stacks fractionally slower
if you can consider 2.5s a fractionally small change 😛
arctic walrus
gar gar gar is just wrong anyways
and you don't snapshot 10% on that 2nd garrote, it's dynamic
arctic walrus
why would you ever look at queens court
for rotation
go to sivara, and that function is available and more clean on warcraftlogs
rigid mango
Queen's court is a multiple target fight though
arctic walrus
If you weren't looking through wow analyzer, you'd see that he garroted different targets
rigid mango
You want to g1 g1 g2 there to maximise the value of SS on both targets
on ST however, pandemic is maxed out after the 2nd garrote
Hence gar > rup > gar
fresh kernel
hey guys trying to boost a rogue stuck on race... I pvp rarely but I was wondering between maghar orc and Ztroll. do you guys think or know if the regeneration would top that off the random stat bonus on burst from maghar orc?
rigid mango
menial diff
Pick what you prefer the look of
It doesn't snapshot EP
No
Nothing in sin snapshots outside of the effect of subt/shrouded/nightstalker
Well, exsang w haste.
Pandemic.
Nah it's all about getting max uptime of the insanely high dmg garrotes
No, it's just to stop overcapping, apply bleeds and to do something in between the two garrotes
Also applying EP yeah, but that's more of a bi-product of doing so
Your garrote ticks when u rupture and then when you garrote again it gives full pandemic
If you were to do g g rup instead of g rup g you'd miss out on a tick of the garrote
arctic walrus
what's a good garrote
you reapply when it's gonna fall off
you don't have to inside the vendetta
cuz again
no snapshot
maybe go read the actual tooltip?
that mutilate most likely crit
a 4 cp rupture is what 20 seconds?
rigid mango
If you're running ss + subt
your opener will be
gar
rup
gar
clf
vend
tb
env
build and finish as per usual
vast forum
condensed life force
lone junco
my rogue is so far behind, its like a time capsule
my ret kit with no effort is like 48k
i guess 407 with a 55 neck will do that.
about 100k hps lower than the people we are fighting in 2s.
Honestly. Of all my toons with >100days played. I think rogue was my absolute favorite.
Something about assassination just feels good. Never been a fan of proc based whackamole. Like enhance or ret, even outlaw at times.
mossy adder
😦
vital haven
LUL
bleak spoke
You know how we got mad in pms when we had to do gay rotational shit nairda
I had to
Vendetta the second add
The whole three hours was a slow motion nooooooooooooooo
worn basin
But did you have to click console twice?
cobalt pelican
i prefered vending 2nd ad cause it means i get to delay p2 vend till devoteds to accidentally bote them all and still got it back by p4 anyway
vital haven
"accidentally"
cobalt pelican
he he
shy dust
happy accidents
worn basin
I think you're talking about 2nd hulk not 2nd add though.
shy dust
Id like to do that but then I dont have vendetta for the 1st add of p3
cobalt pelican
yeah you can only do it if you're on the 2nd ad
worn basin
Yuck strat
cobalt pelican
which most people aren't
worn basin
Yea basically wasting a use or close to it.
cobalt pelican
not really no
it's the same amount of uses unless you're randomly using it on the 3rd ad for some reason
worn basin
Start or 1st hulk, start of p2, on 1st add, and on cd after that. I dont recall it being up for 3rd add, so pretty sure you lose a use but maybe I'm wrong.
cobalt pelican
assuming you're following the normal slowpoke guild way of doing azshara if you use on the 1st or 2nd add is irrelevant cause it'll come off cd while you're dicking around with the 2nd+3rd mrymidon/3rd ad
where it's functionally useless
it's still a dps loss overall to not vend there on azshara but like you're not going to do it regardless cause you want 2 uses in p4 unless your guild is baller and you can just do whatever you want
so for most people it's functionally the same
vital haven
you get 4 sets of cd essentially
it doesnt matter if you are on the first add or the second
cobalt pelican
p1/p2/p3/p4/p4
cobalt pelican
i think more and more people are reclearing with <9min kill timers and i have 0 idea what you do there maybe you do vend twice in p3 but probably still not
vital haven
if your p3 vendetta on the first add it will usually come off cd by the time you are on the third add
worn basin
Yea I went and looked. I used it at about 5 mins then 8 mins when we lusted
So irrelevant but seemed closer in my mind
strange python
Does agility battle pot get better with next tier gear?
vital haven
who knows
strange python
how big is the difference right now?
cobalt pelican
all pots scale to some degree, i'd imagine crit scales the best then agi then unbridled but whether it's actually better or not wait and see i guess
unbridled is just a hasted proc, but will benefit from higher haste levels in general
probably not farfetched to say the crit pot might be better, especially if we end up moving off clf (which we might not)
bleak spoke
Crit pot could be fun
There’s nothing like nonstop crits to make you feel good
I wonder if coral’s gonna be good deep into next tier especially if the titanforge rules stay for content that’s grandfathered in
strange python
unbridled scales with haste, crit and vers, right?
lots of cleave in 8.3 gotta be careful with crit pot
vital haven
ye
strange python
not sure i think maybe outlaw for those fights
vital haven
what you thinking
@bleak spoke
455 coral with a socket?
i dont think blizz will let that fly tbh
cobalt pelican
i kinda just assumed everything would immediately convert to corruption on patch release
but i guess that might not be the case
especially since leveling gear can forge and stuff
bleak spoke
yeah probably nairda
final dust
All old content can still titanforge up to 455
It’s just all new content in 8.3 that will have corruption
vagrant urchin
On Mythic Azshara P3, should i use CDs on 3rd big add or should i save em for Azs p4 burn?
vagrant urchin
kk, thx
pearl pagoda
im noticing almost all sin rogues are using at least one TTK in raid now
is there a reason? or is it just a good piece
with OP on it]
drifting cloud
good piece
wanton bolt
1 sec more on envenom
pearl pagoda
i wanted to introduce a Loyal to the end trait but i dont want to drop the triple double dose
ah fuck
thats what it is
i forgot about the one trait wonder part of it
dammit lol
drifting cloud
no its not
fish chest is just bis/same as celaphide
has nothing to do with ttk
ttk is an average trait, you dont need 1 of it
pearl pagoda
ive been using spymasters wrap T.T
wanton bolt
meh
pearl pagoda
so now i have 2 DD, 1TTK, 1BBI, 1NP, and 1 LttE with triple OP
i have all the ingredients to a good parse
wanton bolt
seems optimal
pearl pagoda
but i am a terrible cook 😄
tropic ocean
😂😂😂😂
What do you define as a good parse? For 99/100 it comes down to crit rng and killtime heavily
95+ should be fine by just playing properly
pearl pagoda
well im just set up for success now
i just gotta practice this build a bit more
ive been running CLF, cyclotronic trinket, 3DD 2NP 1BBI
so
tropic ocean
You dont have a better trinket than cyclo?
pearl pagoda
i mean it worked on our kill for what we needed me to do but now i kinda dont give a fuck about the hulk dmg, we dont have an issue with it anymore
i have 430 font and 435 corral
using that now for this build
tropic ocean
Thats better for sure
And in azshara it also lines up greatly with points where high dmg is needed
pearl pagoda
not quite on board on how to use them together correctly i know youre supposed to use font and then wait for like 10 second before using vendetta when youre going to reapply corral
tropic ocean
Generally u channel font when vendetta has <20s cd
Then u just use vendetta when its ready and extract coral crit during it
Then reapply coral as soon as its off cd and repeat that procedure
In azshara it lines up super good anyway with p2 venomtongue, bl
pearl pagoda
my font is always too close to my vendetta, should i be spacing them out on the second vendetta window?
tropic ocean
Shouldnt be the case
Channel font prepull
Channel font again after decree p2
Channel font after decree p3
Channel font when losing azshara before bait
And again in p4
pearl pagoda
when you say prepull font
do you mean when theres like 4 seconds before pull
or do you font really early
tropic ocean
U can check vendetta font/coral usage here for the fight
Slight adjustments might be needed depending on ur raids dps e.g. how fast u kill the adds
pearl pagoda
yeah i think we kill the adds really fast
we'll see now though
we're bringning in a ret pally, im using bote, and were taking someone off of meme beam duty
so it might be a bit easier to get 4 envenoms out
tropic ocean
Im talking p3 adds
Unless desperately needed u shouldnt use bote into middle adds
Far more worth if you can push boss to skip beckons
pearl pagoda
ah rly? i was seeing alot of the top parsers using bote on the middle adds
tropic ocean
well yeah for log obviously
tropic ocean
If u can push boss anyway might as well pad into adds
fathom wyvern
azshara is a dmg control fight, put it where its needed over where you get the more overall dmg done, hence why bote is better than clf
tropic ocean
But what I read from you, you only just killed azshara so might as well play beneficial for the raid
(Besides it being not a super big increase)
pearl pagoda
yeah only killed her once
tropic ocean
the more stuff you can skip due to high st dps the easier it gets
pearl pagoda
mk so just pair vendetta and bote on azhara no matter what
tropic ocean
Thats what I do in every kill yeah
fathom wyvern
i get my 2nd vendetta at start p2, 3rd on first add, 4th on 3rd add then next end last phase
tropic ocean
dont use vendetta on 3rd add
fathom wyvern
i mean it works for us
pearl pagoda
i think he said on the first add
tropic ocean
U just slowly kill it while pushing azshara to 50% and killing myrmidon
pearl pagoda
in third phase
tropic ocean
Thats how it supposed to be
Far more beneficial to hold vendetta for lust on boss
Shouldnt be more than few seconds anyway
pearl pagoda
oh nvm i didnt read the entire thing he did say third add
yeah ive always felt that if i popped my cds on the third add some of it would get wasted
always felt she was a bit too low to commit that
tropic ocean
u might also pump half ur cd into shield too
2 rogues and 2 mages using cd on 3rd is just well
Very very bad
fathom wyvern
mages dont use cds
tropic ocean
And a major flaw in strategy
fathom wyvern
i mean it works
tropic ocean
hammering a nail into a wall with a shoe works too
Yet a hammer is better for it
😉
pearl pagoda
yeah that too i think id rather kill myself than to see me pop vendetta only to see a shield go up
tropic ocean
like 3rd add is 0 dps check its the most chill phase in the fight besides decree
Many guilds just pull azshara on top of it and cleave
brb
pearl pagoda
how much am i going to be missing out if i go iris minor instead of strife
i feel like i need just a wee bit more haste in this build
granted i have 3OP and a 24.5 base haste...
arctic walrus
You’ll be fine
fathom wyvern
iris is better in sims for me
pearl pagoda
it sims better but i know that there is target switching
fathom wyvern
i mean once the phases where you need to zerg boss down youll be fine
pearl pagoda
man now im excited to raid but i have to wait four days T.T
craggy tide
On mythic queens court is it best to try and keep both bosses ruptured and garroted? or swap between the two when sprint or shadow step is up?
rigid mango
Latter
green moss
I just switched over to assassination from outlaw to do something new and was wondering if someone could take a look at my logs and see where I can improve
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7F1vDfXj2NrdnybT
wanton bolt
i cant see a thing except for trinket/essence but im not sure if it would be better with font/bote
maybe better opener
green moss
still getting used to the opener
wanton bolt
with MA and no SS it should be mut till 4+/rup/mut/garrote into cds
rigid mango
You overcap like a motherfucker
You misseda TB cast bec you randomly delayed it 15 seconds
Your opener is horribly wrong
lack 2 benthic slots
That's +- it
tropic ocean
@pearl pagoda I used iris for a long time its not a big dps difference, and superior in p4
tropic ocean
c&s will be better overall and helping to push 2nd hulk
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
chilly fulcrum
@rigid mango would you just finish @ 3cp then? or am i missing something :S
rigid mango
Don't mut over
rigid mango
i.e don't mut at 4-5 CP
chilly fulcrum
😦
rigid mango
muting at those CP's is insant overcap and he overcapped 15 which btw is a fucking insane amount
big oof
chilly fulcrum
I should just learn to read 😉
rigid mango
All gucci
But yeah pretty much you've fucked up on a lot of the basics @green moss and I recommend reading through guides and such
Icyveins and wowhead are both good sources
wanton bolt
how do you see the overcapping @rigid mango in logs
rigid mango
resources > cp
wanton bolt
thx
green moss
@rigid mango alright thank you, pretty much every sin I ever played with always overcapped so I just assumed it was a thing sins did. I do pretty well on not overcapping on outlaw so I think I should be able to get the hang of not overcapping on sin
gusty mirage
@rigid mango is the gift that keeps on giving for us sin rogues 
rigid mango
wanton bolt
any point in holding on to a 430 shroud helmet when i have a 430 fish vest/rage shoulder/circlet helmet?
tropic ocean
wanton bolt
Azerite gear is only available for Raidbots Premium members
tropic ocean
then you can compare different pieces with different ilvl in gear compare
and see whats ur best upgrade azerite wise
balmy condor
I see top rogues running coral in m+, how does the usage work? Put on longest lasting target in pack?
rigid mango
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
flint compass
@wanton bolt if you use gear compare (assuming you have all of those azerite pieces) you can just sim yourself with all the different combos.
wanton bolt
@flint compass thx
lone junco
@rigid mango glad to not be log review guy. cheers
strange python
do you guys multidot on queen's court? i the dps worth the downtime running?
lone junco
still enjoy finding weird shit like 3 knife in a row.
or 9 mut in a row, like cps dont matter
rigid mango
@strange python swap with step and with sprint when the tanks swap/there's movement in general
You learn the flow of the fight quite quickly when trying to multi dot
rigid mango
@lone junco Still find shit like that to this day kinda great ngl
Yeah you can't have 100% uptime on both
rigid mango
You just play around movement CD's to keep as much uptime as possible
strange python
alright ty
tropic ocean
you will naturally have 90%+ uptime if u focus on multi dotting you either do with step/sprint and while moving anyway the only downtime is when u need to be in bubble of silas/outbreak, so be sure to refresh dots on pashmar before bubble comes
lone junco
is the brawl really the way to farm up BoTE? I dont even have R1 yet. Ive never done a brawl, but will have a bit of time this weekend to get started.
cobalt pelican
didn't comp stomp end
and it's like 6v6 bgs now
in which case it's probably just better to do random bgs till the next comp stomp
rigid mango
y
silver talon
how many stacks of EB is optimal?
rigid mango
3
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican oh yeah you're right
vale bay
what traits should i be aiming for?
arctic walrus
for what content
quick chasm
!help
jaunty crystal
brawl definitely the fastest way, but I'm not going to lie it still sucks ass
and will be 8-10 hours of mindless grind 😛
rigid mango
Still not the right brawl atm tho.
Unless this one is really good too, which I dunno about.
vale bay
its a horrible brawl
hasty fiber
fringe epoch
yes
rigid mango
There's a big guide w everything pvp related on wowhead
orchid wagon
Is it still the AB brawl? Fighting NPCs is lame but they hit so fkn hard lol
rigid mango
It's not
orchid wagon
What’s the new one? Haven’t been on since Monday
orchid wagon
I mean it could be if you’re playing assassin in it 
exotic rose
Hey guys, if I want to prioritize damage on one target but there are adds around, at which amount of targets it's worth to start using FoK instead of mutilate?
Eg. Za'qul
4?
rigid mango
If it's about prio damage, like 8+
rigid mango
I just assume a bunch of DD's
vast forum
probably depends on crit % too
buoyant hawk
Pretty sure it’s just 2x DD 6 targets and 3xDD 8 targets but crit does play a part
exotic rose
Ah ok, so its higher than I thought.
So on Za'qul for example it would never be worth (assuming I have people to cleave adds).
buoyant hawk
Yep, for zaqul usually just normal single target unless your raid lacks cleave somehow 🙂
rustic flare
The wowhead guide was a little ambiguous, does it become worth it to run exsanguinate with 3 shrouded suffication? I have two on my current gear and tb still sims higher on dungeon slice, was hoping somebody might have a little more insight
rigid mango
No
Tb's always the pick, pretty much. There's niche cases like super speed kills in raids but meh, not really.
rustic flare
alright that makes sense, I'm in low level mythic+ content anyways
thanks!
pk instead of tb what was i even thinking there
dawn flame
if you only have one shrouded suffocation is it worth using subterfuge over MA on azshara?
magic fossil
guys, should i use golem after or before vendeta?
arctic walrus
before
magic fossil
thx vel
leaden garden
hey guys, wich written guide is the "best" (most recently updated)?
harsh sphinx
Icyveins was very recently updated.
leaden garden
thanks!
lofty solstice
Hey friends, probably looking to play rogue in 8.2 as it suits our roster best. How important is Blood of the Enemy? I loathe PvP but will do it if it is actually relevant next tier. Im asking from a pure single target standpoint, so i don't really care about whether its good to pad on Orgozoa/Za'qul, for example.
brave vector
It’s the best m+ essence and might end up being our best raid essence with the clf nerf
But still to be determined
@lofty solstice
lofty solstice
guess im not playing rogue lmao
brave vector
Just get your first win of the day in all of the queues it doesn’t really take that long
vocal pasture
playing alliance i can tell ,that it takes alot of time xD
drifting cloud
Wasnt even close to 5kh
tulip helm
do we have an idea about when the brawl vs AI come back ?
vocal pasture
how did you get 5k per hour,i did it until i got the rank 2 essence,but it took way longer i got 350 honor per win (5 to 7 min)
dapper bough
5min per win was the longest wins we had
tulip helm
I agree, it takes a lot more time than an hour to make 5h honor, I reached 22k honor in something like 10/15hours because a BG was always around 7-9 min
vocal pasture
may you tell us how you did it then? so we can grind it next time
royal lantern
do your daily win on both bg modes and its done pretty fast
they nerfed the honor req pretty hard
dapper bough
we had 3 shaman for LM so it ws tagged instantly because you could just bump the npc away. Farm/stable was taken easily with 2 rogues. Blacksmith we popped hero and killed everything and mines it was wonky sometimes there were only like 2 npc, sometimes mores
drifting cloud
And the brawl isnt gonna be back for atleast 3 months probably
dapper bough
if you don't have 2 rogues, have a dk just grab the npc away from farm/stable and cap... because the npc will want to interrupt you as soon as you click on the flag so he will just try and run mindlessly to inerrupt you so a dk will just grab it.
Also when you sap a npc, they instantly cleanse so you can then blind them and it's enough to cap
vocal pasture
okay,thanks can you queue it with 10 ppl or just 5?
dapper bough
you can queue with 15
i mean the max
dont remember if it was 15 or 10
7th/8th of january is +50% honor week too
let's hope they bring back ai then :p
tropic ocean
5/7 ot party
warm elk
Does Crimson Tempest have value over Poison Bomb? How many targets do you regularly need to hit for it to beat Poison Bomb?
tropic ocean
it has good value in aoe
And u use it on 2+ if the targets have same priority
Its hard to say how many targets to beat poison bomb but overall it is > poison bomb for me usually it does 7-10% of my dmg while poison bomb does 3-6
warm elk
Awesome thank you!
tropic ocean
in this week itspretty much set as fortified teeming
outer lotus
Isnt this kind of a bad measure seeing that you spend CP and globals on tempest while poison bomb is a completely free proc?
tiny granite
you can control when you use CT and PB is rng
they are both good
both have pros and cons
outer lotus
sure just saying that you cant really say "poison bomb does less overall dmg than tempest so tempest is better"
tiny granite
it depends on the scenario. I default to PB unless its a scenario where CT is going to give me better overall results
tropic ocean
@outer lotus well u pretty much can
its not 100% accurate measurement but gives a rough idea, on trash heavy dungeons especially
ct avgs on 180kish dmg per cast
which mostly translates to somewhere between 7~10% of your total dmg, some times a bit more as well (depending on how big u pull)
poison bomb more like 3-5% or 6% in very good rng cases
if we take that on random log from some high ranked rogue
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ND1mbrpvPJtjG8zx#fight=20&type=damage-done&source=2
with 6% pb dmg pb would've done 7,6mil around~
while ct did 12,7mil dmg (10%)
cant properly factor in when mobs are spread or tank is kiting or whatever, but the bigger the pull or the more trash you fight the better ct gets compared to poison bomb
and on sim ct won as well by a big margin
cobalt pelican
none of that still takes into account the cost of ct
but it's also kinda hard to quantify cause even without ct people advocate for no finishers at much lower target counts than is probably appropriate
soft bluff
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican even if you would cast envenom instead of ct (which you wouldnt do unless there is priority target) its a little lower on some logs, or equal on others (with good pb rng)
in aoe scenario without prio you'll naturally have lower pb procs, as you just spam fok anyway
proven moth
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
leaden lichen
3xSS, 1xEB or 3xEB, 1xSS for mythic plus?
rigid mango
Can you get 2-2?
vast forum
3xSS always
leaden lichen
i could get 2-2, but i would give up a NP for a DD
leaden lichen
what would be considered good "B" tier traits if SS/EB are "A"
vast forum
SS is S+ tier tho
rigid mango
1 NP is good in KR and "ok" for most others.
leaden lichen
yea, its just to rank them for this discussion
rigid mango
In descending order, SS EB TTK BBI NP > everything else
vast forum
SS is S+ tier, EB is S tier, ttk, bbi are A tier
SoB/NP are B tier
DD is F---- tier
strange python
I have one 435 piece with SS, but no EB, and a 450 piece with DD but with a EB, so i guess go back to the 435?
leaden lichen
Thanks for the info
rigid mango
Like, DD is really bad.
strange python
thanks, i'll delete
muted jacinth
I usually run 2 twist 2 echos 2 shrouded personally. feels pretty balanced
leaden lichen
nice, i rolled a eb/ss helm so i can do 3 ss, 2eb
is there much difference in ct vs pb?
sage forum
hey guys, sorry to ask I know there's probably plenty of guides, but if I'm just going for M+, what should my most sought after azerite traits eb?
I typically go on raider.io and check top tier in the class/spec I'm curious about, but all you find are outlaw when I search rogues >.<
royal lantern
deepens on the dungeon you want a healthy mix with eb/ss
sage forum
looks like I can get 3x EB, 2x SS, and 1 Twist the knife. That pretty solid?
sage forum
omg I never knew there were those bars at the top to narrow search down hahaha, 'm an idiot. Thank you @worn basin
rocky salmon
Hey peeps. Wheres the best place to go to find some info on Assassination Rogue pvp?
old knot
hey guys, dumb question. i have a regular garrote ticking. if i vanish garrote'd, would the new garrote be subterfuge bonus'ed with new duration?
quasi pewter
yes
old knot
thank you
rare pond
On Azshara, on the second add when it's close to the boss, the add, and the myrm, do you use fok or mut for cp generation?
If you can hit all 3 ofc
arctic walrus
mut
rare pond
kk
sage forum
should I trust raidbot stat sims or should I prio crit/mast?
arctic walrus
for m+?
sage forum
oh yes, sorry
rare pond
is there an optimal way to use coral on azshara?
should I put it on the adds instead of the boss and jsut let it stack up/fall off, and put it on the boss for the final part?
strange python
0 haste is good, but 0 hate is even better. If your group disbands due to some Toxic bullshit then its over anyways
So always 0 hate
cyan locust
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
arctic walrus
@rare pond you use it on your main target
rare pond
Alrighty, ty
cyan locust
Is BoE, still the best major for m+?
ashen solar
yes
cyan locust
Okie, and memory i know is good for a minor
what about the third? i see essence and conflict being used
arctic walrus
Yes
daring cave
Whats a good shoulder piece to run?. Ive been gone for awhile just curious what others are running
rigid mango
For m+? Gold tasseled/pistoleers. For raid? Gorak tul's.
daring cave
Ok, yeah sorry ment to say M+
daring cave
What do we use on sim to test M+ dmg
arctic walrus
running a m+ dungeon
daring cave
JW how i would sim a M+
arctic walrus
you can't accurately for this spec
daring cave
ok
alpine rain
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
onyx hedge
Any 8/8 rogues around, im getting mine back up for next tier, i dropped it to play boomy for this one and missing being a sneaky boi, i only cleared 6/8 on it but just wanted to compare sims anyway
ST Raid Setups If possible 😄
obtuse cedar
@onyx hedge Take a look at what ppl use on wclogs
Sims are not pointless but might not be the most accurate if you want to check enchants etc
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tropic ocean
@silver talon highest ilvl u get in mainhand
socket in off hand outvalues 20+ itemlevel so sim them
silver talon
that makes things a lot easire than desperately hoping for folly every wek
shut pasture
at what number of targets do I spam FoK with 3 fans?
candid anvil
which one would you use in m+?
rigid mango
1st one
candid anvil
second one sims better, but i'm stopping to believe simming..
obtuse cedar
@shut pasture with 3 echoing blades ?
rigid mango
I assume he means 3 eb yeah, 6t+ or in Bote window.
obtuse cedar
Was a little confused by his wording ngl
rigid mango
Russians have weird translations 
Same for anyone who plays the game on diff languages
candid anvil
and from how many targets is it better to use EB as generator
with 2 targets do you mutilate or fok?
candid anvil
okay thanks.. and does versatility increase focused beam dmg?
rigid mango
Would assume so
candid anvil
tryna figure out which one is better.. without the one with versa I have 281 versa
dang
candid anvil
alrighty, thanks
worthy cave
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
Yep
rigid mango
I mean it's an overall gain to just fok afaik
but it's inconsistant CP gain and if you have a prio target like you do 90% of the time
Using it to fill from 3 to 4/5 is a more consistant way of playing it
random geyser
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
bronze trench
assassination is typically easier than sub for a new rogue?
bronze trench
thanks
crystal vault
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
granite oriole
Is there an effective way of spreading my dots to other enemies other than to repeatedly cast it from tab targeting?
rigid mango
Mouse over macros I suppose?
granite oriole
So no effective way of spreading them all at once?
rigid mango
No?
royal lantern
if you find a way too rupture 6 enemys with 1 cast at once, tell me
civic palm
Crimson Tempest spreads "Rupture" <~~ this is a lie
sage forum
Is there any number of mobs that I would want to just spam Fan of Knives?
over anything else
brave vector
I think it’s 6 - 8 - 10 depending on if you have 3 - 2 - 1 eb traits
And for the 5 globals after you pop BotE in aoe
tropic ocean
with 3 eb u pretty much fok at 2+
civic palm
4+ is safe for DMG, CP generation, fewer targets FoK is for applying poisons.
tall narwhal
guys when playing clf major in a raid
once i use everything on pull, should i postpone my vendetta + vanish in order to pair it up with 2nd clf ?
i guess it depends whether or not i know / can predict / how long the fight will be right ?
tropic ocean
only if u dont lose a cast of vendetta from doing so
rapid forum
So, guide says use tb on CD. Im at 2cp and tb is coming up, what do I do?
If I use muti and get to 5 cp, so I still tb and waste the cp or do I tb before and might have to waste 1 global on muti?
cobalt pelican
perplexing question
rapid forum
So at 5 cp I use it and waste the cp?
cobalt pelican
you answered your own question before even asking it
cobalt pelican
use tb on cd overrides basically everything except some super fringe cases which you don't need to worry about if you're learning
hushed maple
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
hushed maple
how bout raids?
rigid mango
You try to apply it as soon as possible
cobalt pelican
n
cobalt pelican
if you're not using font in conjunction you can use it on your first global yes
hushed maple
I also use font sadly
yeah
didnt think about that
lmao
and for vendetta I use coral, ven
and when ready again use it again?
(I am sorry got it for the first time today
cobalt pelican
there is a pin that points you to #tc-updates which outlines which order your cds should be used in, reapply coral as soon as you can after this is done 😺
tough dome
for m+ what are some opinions on optimal trinkets? I've been using 430 coral/435 socketed inkpod but my options are 435 dice w/ leech, 430 spyglass, and 435 socket resonating heart?
hushed maple
Thats a sim thing I would say
but I would assume coral and Spyglass to be best for Sin 🤷
tough dome
i thought simming is not ideal for M+
rigid mango
inkpod isn't bad
tough dome
yeah I like the inkpod, but I wasn't sure if the coral was the best choice for dungeons.
slim lava
how viable are assassin rogues in high M+ over outlaw?
royal lantern
#3 melee dps after outlaw/dh i would say?
one of the best options in the game, like zine said
slim lava
I run with high fury warriors that pull tons of deeps
royal lantern
fury warrior has dps warrior problems
slim lava
So I'd agree.
slim lava
Does the website cover the M+ version of assassin? I was looking and couldn't find anything.
rigid mango
Icyveins kinda does, otherwise this channel/seliathan's stream is the best places
slim lava
Yeah im stuck on the AOE aspect, even though it looks and sound simple.
neon tendon
what should i do to recover, when my bleed will tick out in my tb window?
rigid mango
Reapply bleeds?