Hard to tell without sims.
#assassination
rigid mango
hushed maple
first try everything. That is a nice feeling....damn my guild is damn awful. I would like to link my logs here if you wont mind looking over them 🙂
rigid mango
Go for it
hushed maple
But I realised, that I was holding on Vendetta stupidly sometimes and wasted TB with full CP and shit
hushed maple
I have to wait for the raidlead to upload em
civic palm
Looks like you're pressing buttons, yep, those are buttons.
rigid mango
TB on full CP is better than not using it on CD.
arctic walrus
Tb at cap is fine
rigid mango
Worse than leaving it not pressed.
civic palm
It's 1CP waste on average, not that big a deal.
hushed maple
yes I know.... 
civic palm
You waste just as much if not more during optimal play.
civic palm
":3
civic palm
ooo
hushed maple
445 bracers from Sivara and the belt with socket 450 from behe
rigid mango
No benthic 
hushed maple
damn....I actually feel ashamed for posting this logs.....
thats not nice numbers
rigid mango
Can only get better from here then
rigid mango
Opener still wrong my dude
civic palm
Shiv should PROBABLY be your highest DPS boss.
hushed maple
hushed maple
I will practice more sensei
rigid mango
Mut rup mut gar clf vend tb van
hushed maple
me promise
rigid mango
Or
hushed maple
rigid mango
Mut mut rup gar mut clf vend tb van
If your first mut isn't 4 cp
You'rr tb'ing before vend and vanish
Wasting uptime of TB
And you also enter tb w/out 4+ cp
Because you don't mut after rup
hushed maple
oh okay.
I mostly did that because my WA was still showing me being in MA window for .2seconds
so not good, no?
well....tb can crit, too actually....me bad
me practice
rigid mango
Myeh.
But you always want a mut after rup
Either it's rup mut gar or rup gar mut
Dependant on if you're still in MA after rup
rigid mango
It's all in the pins breh
arctic walrus
You skipped a font cast for fun
hushed maple
yeah I am not really familiar with english shit, you know
I am playing on german client
arctic walrus
You pool pretty high
hushed maple
well its alright ^^
rigid mango
I can't see if he overcaps vel
hushed maple
I am not southern german
rigid mango
Phone sucks
hushed maple
so its all gucci
arctic walrus
arctic walrus
Over caps what resource
rigid mango
Phone wcl blows ass
harsh sphinx
link
arctic walrus
Like 14 over capped from mut seems high
rigid mango
That's insanely high
hushed maple
reeeeeeee
rigid mango
Stop mut'ing at 4+
hushed maple
yes, sensei....
harsh sphinx
hushed maple
rigid mango
How many
arctic walrus
Random 3 point finisher too
harsh sphinx
civic palm
11MUTO_O
civic palm
lol
hushed maple
atleast something
harsh sphinx
hushed maple
lmao
rigid mango
So uhh, stop pressing the wrong buttons
hushed maple
yeah the opener scks
rigid mango
And ur good
hushed maple
Zine said that already
harsh sphinx
ah
rigid mango
You don't have r3 lucid do you
rigid mango
hushed maple
well I came back recently into the damn game
I am happy I got the other shit on 3 already
need 15k Honor for the damn battleground one, tho
rigid mango
Myeh, I know
That's why I take the piss.
But yeah
Just do the opener on a dummy
Get used to it
hushed maple
yes, sensei
worn cloak
i need a pvp island win, don't even have rank 1 :d
hushed maple
oh boi
civic palm
Just keep wiping the raid until you have the opener down :3
pure moth
Lol
worn cloak
practice makes the master
worn cloak
getting your fingers where they should be, without thinking about it
hushed maple
yeah I have to mixup my keybinds, probably
I actually have the corsair scimitar, right?
and I actually FOR REAL only use the 6
cause I do 1-5 with my Keyboard
rigid mango
hushed maple
I just cant get used to that thing
worn cloak
what u mean with the 6
hushed maple
and thats why I actually only use 1-6 V,E,R,F,T and G
worn cloak
is that some mmo mouse
worn cloak
my mouse only has two side buttons heh
hushed maple
yeah I could use that mouse, aswell since I only use the 6 anyway
from 12 avaiable programmable buttons, I only use 1
lmao
worn cloak
why 😛
hushed maple
I cant get them into my head. My hands are jumping on my keyboard like shit
worn cloak
though i only have one of my side buttons bound to a spell too
i tried binding the back button, but it doesn't feel right :\
im too used to use it as auto-walk lo
so i constantly mash it accidently if i rebind it, can't unlearn
forward button i use as stealth/sap/other things macro
hushed maple
my Opener Keybinds are as follows: Q, Q, 4, Shift+4, Q, Shift+E, G, E, Shift+F
civic palm
QQ RIGHT ON OUTTA HEEEEEERE
worn cloak
should get rid of the shifting
hushed maple
worn cloak
for your primary spells
hushed maple
well problem is, that I usually have the same "type of ability" bound to the same key for all classes
CD is always G
worn cloak
well lets move to general
gleaming sorrel
Any guide on how to use cyclotronic blast trinket?
granite rampart
not during vendetta, not during toxic blade, and while low on energy as not to overcap while channeling.
gleaming sorrel
aight ty
granite rampart
👍
rigid mango
You can use it during vend kinda, aslong as you don't lose gcd's of other abilities doing it. Post TB in non-BL'd vend's you're normally starving and it's fine to cast there too.
civic palm
Also don't be afraid to use it during Bloodlust/Heroism if you find yourself outside of melee range as the cast is extremely fast.
pearl pagoda
so how terrible is 1wits/2ace/1deadshot/1bbi/1 swirling sands for m+
i cant get the right helmet
ive spent the past 6 or 7 purchases on helms and havent gotten the right one T.T
rigid mango
For sin? Sounds pretty bad.
rigid mango
royal lantern
yahtzee pirate traits 
dire spoke
doesn't matter, next m+ season is close
strange python
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
strange python
how do you use coral on single target?
strange python
okay thanks
grave elk
On mythic orgo do you guys pull off boss to spread ruptures then go back?
rigid mango
Nope.
royal lantern
if you play sin on orgo, go full singletarget
going aoe just cripples your st dmg,and if you need more aoe outlaw is better
tired shell
does prey on the weak benefit only me? or is it raid wide? the 10% dmg increase
rigid mango
Raid wide
tired shell
thank you 🙂
haughty parrot
assassination better for KR this week?
rigid mango
I'd argue it's always atleast on par if not better every week
twilit elk
Wait, so your saying that assas is still good at pumping numbers in mythic + 15s and beyond?
vast forum
assa might even outdps outlaw from time to time, just doesn't bring the same utility
though i'd definitely run it for KR if i had a 3rd SS
strange python
with zero EB do you only fan on 4+ targets?
rigid mango
For overall gain it's 3-4t, with dd it's more like 5~+
strange python
is there any specific circumstance that would make it 3 rather than 4?
rigid mango
Not really, I don't think it matters that much
strange python
ah alright, so it's basically just if i want prio damage or not i guess
rigid mango
Not v often anyone runs no dd no eb so sims aint been done in a while
Mut does a lot more prio damage
A lot
strange python
yeah I'm waiting for next week for azerite, I got the bis ones for raid but not optimal for m+
rigid mango
That's sin for you
strange python
crimson tempest was a great suggestion though, it's covering my weakness really well while i got no eb traits
already doing around 50k overall with crappy trinkets in 15/16s with it
rigid mango
Sounds good
plain moon
During Azshara what does your guys bleed uptime look like on on myrmidon and azshara
dont need exact uptime numbers just wondering how often you refresh
arctic walrus
in p3?
plain moon
yeah sorry
plain moon
okay so you refreshed on azshara when you started second add and at some point during third add
arctic walrus
I basically try and have rupture on all 3 mobs
for fun
it's passable though to just have on the tidemistress and myrm add though
you don't need the rupture on azshara
warm parcel
Yea we didnt touch queen or myrm really as we progged late
Now multidotting is more feasable on farm
warm parcel
As opposed to common beliefs
Dotting a sec target isnt really that big an increase if the main target is a real prio target
Eapecially if it delays/weakens any tb window or cds
But for overall its ofc great
arctic walrus
sometimes though you might have a bit of downtime waiting for myrm to spawn and that's when you can go over to azshara and throw up a dot
warm parcel
Obviously
arctic walrus
this was when we progged it
and I honestly don't even remember rupturing azshara that much
warm parcel
Also depends on how you handle some specific stuff
Like we losed all shield shatters
arctic walrus
2nd add was our biggest push point so you see me ignoring azshara for the entirety of that add
warm parcel
Shame I didnt get my pov from our kill
I think I p much ignore queen
Dot her and channel font on phase start
Rip coral on second naga
arctic walrus
windows were much tighter back then too so I knew we needed a bit more damage on her to get closer to 50%
warm parcel
On third we hit myrm a lot and queen while waiting for p4 coming closer
rigid mango
Idk we never had any issues w mistresses now like
It's just the fuss at 3rd one
With shitty overlaps
rigid mango
Yeah that's what I did too
Coral 2nd add and I just reapplied it on qa and let shit slowly tick for p4 stacks
Since dps is irrelevant for 3rd mistress
arctic walrus
I pulled my coral for first add
warm parcel
Yea 3rd naga is very chill
arctic walrus
Back in my day 
rigid mango
plain moon
my guild is trying to move as many people off first add early so stacking font and coral is worth for that
warm parcel
We had our folks just cd first naga down
And 2nd naga we had a strike team stay and kill after beam spawned
They can all move thru it with cds
full flame
How are assa rogues looking in 8.3? Been maining one for a couple parches but considering paladin if they are better in raid.
civic palm
Fine. 🔮
unborn minnow
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
will condensed life force still be best after the nerf?
this was probably asked 1000 times but i cant find it
ivory shore
I tried assa in raid yesterday for the first time. I have No benthic gear but my traits are quit Good. Im Always feeling energy starved and Idk how the pool mecanics work so when to save energy and what not
arctic walrus
Do you have any logs
arctic walrus
Quit good isn’t how I’d particularly describe your trait set up
It’s bad, your essences are bad, and you’re running subterfuge with no SS
You are trying to finish on 5 cp, evident through your high waste of combo points through muts
Your energy is rather odd and wrong, you pool for way to long and stay at max energy for extended periods of time
Stop letting your bleeds drop off
ivory shore
i see. essences i thought since ther is eavy aoe its good with the beam. and waste combopoit i have to train on
arctic walrus
Azshara is most definitely not a “heavy aoe” fight
It’s 6-10 minutes of single target with 10 seconds of aoe
dark crag
The aoe part is the small adds that run to the middle
The rest is cleave but noone really plays caster adds anymore
Outside mythic
grave trail
If you're on add duty the beam is good well rogues shouldn't be on add duty anyways for mythic that is
dark crag
It's hc
grave trail
@ivory shore for Queen heroic you want the standard CLF main iris/lucid secondary for essences.
ivory shore
Ah i see. Is vision of p Any Good as a secondary for more vendettas?
Should i not finish at 5 combo points always? Like if in 4 points i do mute agien?
distant lava
tropic ocean
@grave trail theres not really add duty with beam unless ur comp is really bad
dk/lock will demolish them
ashen solar
those traits 
inner sonnet
@full flame Pala vs rogue is close. Rogue is very strong single target, pala isnt weak but is also good for AoE, Assass isn't as good there. both have decent utility, when played right I think rogue is better in my personal opinion though
lethal heart
marble hemlock
id play cns instead of puri
inner sonnet
can you change weps in a M+? I've never been able to change anything else
vestal wren
ct 🤔
inner sonnet
forti week high keys CT > PB
cobalt pelican
you just leave when the p ull is done
vestal wren
ct is pretty useless in a super big pull tho
inner sonnet
I've had better results personally this week on 4+ targets, get dots up on all then alternate Envenom / Crimson T
inner sonnet
oh yeah obv 😛 I was just thinking FoK spam on bosses wouldn't be great xD
inner sonnet
so in M+ it's great for AoE, terribad for ST bosses (you'd probably do fine on SotS & FH council fights)
rigid mango
You don't want to use it for m+
tall narwhal
i dont ?
rigid mango
Sebek is just using it for the niche uwage of first pull in TD
tall narwhal
now im confused 
rigid mango
Which is just a huge pull
tall narwhal
ah
rigid mango
You go out and swap after
tall narwhal
you cant swap weapons anymore in m+ ?
rigid mango
Becauae otherwise you're essentially useless on bosses.
inner sonnet
and you dont make the pull on bolster/burst 😛
rigid mango
Nah he goes out and swaps
inner sonnet
people make that pull on burst? #10stackslife
terse orchid
tall narwhal
btw on a side note, do you guys think it's worth trying to get benthics at this stage of the game ?
i ask cause i only have boots at the moment
on this toon
rigid mango
No
inner sonnet
nah, focus on ilvl, possibly 4-5 weeks until next patch
tall narwhal
yeah thats what i thought, and the lack of benthics wont make or break my 1-3 / 8 m pugs attempts
inner sonnet
fun 
inner sonnet
you just missed battleground bonus week 
inner sonnet
first week of 8.2 was 
Bg bonus week with epic BG quests still counting, I ground out that 50k in 5 days
tall narwhal
my biggest issue is with the bg queues 😭 as horde its 14 mins regular bg over 20 epic bg
inner sonnet
queue both at once?
tall narwhal
its just that ive never ever played alliance
i even have a t-shirt 'for the horde' that i take to work
😐 im strange like that
inner sonnet
if you really want BotE and quicker queues, suck it up 😛
tall narwhal
yeah heh
atm im at 4300 honor 😄
im playing pvp as assa, trying to memorize the openers
giving me headaches
strange python
You'll do it automatically sooner or later.
tall narwhal
yeah
strange python
unless you are a goldfish
ashen solar
The opener is really straightforward honestly
tall narwhal
the moment shit hits the fan i forget these things and just mash buttons
i guess im just a baddie
its ok i can live with such fact
😄
ashen solar
Yea if you just panic press buttons in arenas you're not breaking out of the first bracket
tall narwhal
yeah there was a time when i was pretty decent in pvp
even got the gladiator equivalent from rbgs
but that was in cata
havent played much pvp since then, up until now...
now when i play my rogue in bgs
i sometimes feel that once i get stunned for full duration its game over
ashen solar
Are you just doing unranked bgs
tall narwhal
yep
ashen solar
You cant really rely on your team, so in a larger scale fight as a melee that makes sense
tall narwhal
yeah youre right
by the way
when vsing other rogues
especially outlaw, and they use riposte
can i still ss kidney them ?
sorry if this belongs to pvp
tall narwhal
but thanks for the discussion 🙂
pure moth
I queued as merc and ran bgs as ally. Quicker queues. Less than 5 minutes.. horde was like 30 minutes some days
subtle tundra
anyone else around 2.2k has this problem getting into keys?
could it be because i am assassination?
and not fotm outlaw
modest tendon
Outlaw isn’t fotm it’s the best
subtle tundra
foty, sorry
subtle tundra
well i've been queing into 20s all day for the past 2 days and no invites only a 20 ur which we timed, im 2290 score :/
none that i havent done 19 in time
modest tendon
:S I don’t think it’s your spec though, your likely competing with 2.4k+ for 20s
I’m a spiritual assa main so I can say what I want about it 😛
tropic ocean
@subtle tundra its free week and a lot of competition dont worry
I saw lots of groups that require 2.5k + for 19s already
so yeah probably just ppl with more score in queue
modest tendon
Why would you queue for 19 if your 2.5
Perhaps nailing that last siege or Kr key lol
tropic ocean
idk
I dont have much issues to get into keys as sin, occasionally get kicked
though
modest tendon
You main assa aus?
tropic ocean
yes
modest tendon
Iv not had any issues with getting into assa keys
Although I haven’t tried for 20s
tropic ocean
Theres not really an issue
Here and there some wrong mentality groups but i dont mind not going with them
Mostly dodged bullets anyway
modest tendon
Yes, ask people why they want outlaw over assa and they will usually say something ignorant
tropic ocean
it already tells about the persons knowledge 🙂 i really like the week for sin(i mean its a good week in general) but almost no voids and enough ramp for trash
modest tendon
There are a few instances where I would hesitate to take a sin over anything else, like if I was expecting to chain pull a lot or keep the spotter alive, but in team settings as long as you pull around it it’s never an issue
My tank likes to pot whenever he can anyway so I get restealths when I want them
tropic ocean
Tbf I dont think spotter is a big issue but yeah dont think it really matters and especially not in 19 or 20s
fervent jasper
I finally got a 20 king's rest on time yesterday and while we were running it I was wishing I was playing sin instead if outlaw tbh
tropic ocean
yeah I played some kr yesterday too
fervent jasper
Any time there was big AoE the fire mage just blew it up, and we never chained so would have had constant restealths
fervent jasper
And outlaw on 3 targets feels underwhelming
tropic ocean
And still around 50k overall
tropic ocean
Sadly at current tier (18/19) theres a lot of issues in kr so yet to time one
fervent jasper
Dude it took Crowley tanking time get this shit on time
And we only beat it by 40 seconds
fervent jasper
@tropic ocean I was wondering about that. You want to line up your vendetta with your vanish, so how do you play VoP minor? I always thought it wouldn't be worth it because a shorter CD on vendetta without a shorter CD on vanish would just mean you wait longer to use vendetta
strange python
is scent of blood good in any dungeons or is it just inferior to SS/EB in any situation?
tropic ocean
Inferior mostly @strange python its good for orgozoa style fights with constant cleave and 1 prio target, but for m+ u want st and overall and dont really have the sob scenario
@fervent jasper personally i think it just makes u be able to use vanish more often for dps on trash
On boss I usually do hold vanish for 2nd vendetta
I guess this changes the higher the key goes
marble tartan
Yeah was pumping 80k overall Last time at orgozoa
Nasty with 3 times Fan and 2 times scent
fervent jasper
I play sin and outlaw in keys and tbh the only thing I every really feel like I'm missing out on by playing sin is the incredibly liberal usage of vanish
tropic ocean
It takes some more thinking compared to outlaw yeah
fervent jasper
I mean just having it to instantly drop aggro
Do skips without committing a dps CD
Not a huge deal but I notice it
tropic ocean
i tend to notice it more in tos/kr style dungeons
In ur/fh etc with eb and ct its not as bad
fervent jasper
I notice it the most in Waycrest actually
tropic ocean
Did fh earlier sin went 72k with eb being #1 source of dmg
Perfectly chainpull viable
tropic ocean
😆
crystal vault
does kick procc lucid minor? i guess no cuz no energy spent?
fervent jasper
Lucid refunds 50% of energy spent and the vers proc comes from whenever lucid "refunds energy"
50% of 0 is still 0 so
I'd say no since no energy is being refunded
dark crag
Feint can proc it
crystal vault
makes sense, just figured out mages do that ^^
arctic walrus
Yes distract, feint, and sap can proc it. It’s just energy
modest tendon
Dps loss amirite
civic palm
@modest tendon For future reference, anything that uses Energy can proc it.
modest tendon
Learn something new everyday here
strange python
Just coming back from a long break can I run assass in m+ or will everyone want me to go outlaw?
brave vector
Works just fine in m+ with the right traits
But there will be elitists who won’t invite you if you aren’t outlaw
stuck knoll
*dumbasses
arctic walrus
No
arctic walrus
I kick sin if they’re not geared correctly
woven vapor
Isnt that not exactly what you want for m+?
rigid mango
That'd be horrible.
woven vapor
In my experience some variation of SS, TTK and EB is what youd be mostly gunning for
inner sonnet
3x SS everyday
rigid mango
That would be the case, yeah.
bright tusk
I have 7 sockets in my current raidgear, all of them with crit gems currently. And rings are enchanted with crit as well.
According to raidbots I should equip haste in the sockets, but I would only gain 250~+ total dps.
Is this trustworthy?
Because if it's "only" 250dps then I'll just keep them with crit gems since I do a lot of mythic+
rigid mango
It's trustworthy for st yeah.
But if you don't care about that minmax, save yourself the headache and keep it crit
inner sonnet
ST haste is like caffeine, it makes everything more exciting. Crit builds feel clunky and slow
bright tusk
I see, I'll keep em crit, the difference in dps is not big enough to justify changing them aaall the time imo.
And I'm currently progressing on orogzoa so
tropic ocean
depending on what rings you use switching them often has the same effect
without regemming
(I usually just change crit/haste ring to haste/mastery)
steady bay
quick question for zaqul progress, if your in delirium in phase 4 in both grps, should i use vision?
on mythic
steady bay
im using memory and focusing iris for minor, switch out memory i guess?
wind fjord
probably asked a million times but how do you guys open on behemoth?
subtle tundra
ignore first add cause cba
versed bobcat
Boys, has one of you seen any information about a vision "nerf" (easier to aquire like other old essences)? I mean blizzard won't force rerollers or re-starting players to do mechagon normal for 4 weeks do they?
cobalt pelican
you just ignore the first buff entirely
and vision will likely be the same, no info on it being changed and it's an easy to obtain essence compared to the rest
wind fjord
you dont even take it?
cobalt pelican
not if you're playing for damage no
wind fjord
on all difficulties?
cobalt pelican
yes
you're not going to die unless you int really so
some of your healers might question your decision making but as long as you're cognisant of your hp and cloaking the dot if you need to you'll be fine
tropic ocean
@wind fjord open behemoth, get priest to grip you into buff, step back
wind fjord
@tropic ocean yea thats what I thoughta about as well but im mostly pugging it right now 
tropic ocean
ember rover
First fish buff area is quite big.
You can literally take the fish debuff between GCDs
honest vessel
Sim yo self
inner wedge
Hello guys, what profile do you use for simming? 8/8 M
arctic walrus
5 minute patchwork
steady owl
i just got a 455 lustrous golden plumage, what do i use it for? 😄 Im using a 440 tiny electomental with a socket and a 430 spyglass with a socket, should i replace the golden plumage with any of those for m+? it sims just 150more dps on dungeon slice but 3k higher on 5 targets patchwerk 1 min
scarlet sequoia
yes
exotic rose
Hey guys, regarding the pinned message about M+ opener, just curious why the FOK envenom before BoTE
Is this assuming damage on a priority target?
vast forum
env buff = more deadly poison dmg during the crit window cuz more chance for fok to apply it
exotic rose
Oh I didn’t know fok was affected too. The tooltip says it applies at normal rate. Good to know.
toxic bronze
When it comes to using CT, do I only re-apply it when its about to run out?
brave vector
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
distant halo
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tall narwhal
guys out of spyglass/coral/pod for assa raid, which ones i should pick assuming same ilvl ?
trying to optimize my 2 specs that i play
jaunty arrow
Coral and pod
prisma valve
Sim it
versed bronze
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
mental ore
I legit read that as “swimming” will always result in more accurate results. And I sat there and questioned reality for like 2 minutes. Need more coffee...
rain frigate
is st better to sim for asshara ?
rigid mango
Just sim standard st, use blood over clf if u have it, use strife over iris if you have it r3, font/coral or coral/ink
brave vector
Unfortunately don't have a log, but I have a question about this damage breakdown. This guys DD did almost 80% more damage than mine. He got off 14 more Mutilates as well. I wasn't terribly far behind him on the meters but I'm concerned about whether or not I did something wrong to see such a huge difference in our DD damage. Or did I just get fucked by RNG?
edgy pawn
Do you have the same amount of dd traits?
brave vector
Looks like he has 3 and I have 2, that would really make up that big a difference? 700k damage is a pretty giant gap.
brave vector
Doesn't look like it, 834 to my 1272.
arctic walrus
Yeah even a 1 trait difference can sometimes have a big effect
Plus, the lower crit he has the more mut casts he gets off
Compare how many instances of damage each of you had
ember rover
I dunno, without logs it's hard to tell.
There could be a myriad of reasons.
Like, pooling before TB.
brave vector
I mean he did get 14 more Mutilates off then me, I took a look to see his energy gains, Lucid Dreams gave him about 200 more energy than mine.
Idunno it just seems too big a gap to be rng.
arctic walrus
It happens
Has happened to me before
Even with equal mut casts
But higher dd damage doesn’t mean higher overall
brave vector
Maybe I just didn't get as many double poison applications to even proc DD as much.
arctic walrus
As an example a while ago on radiance, I had 900k dd damage with 84 muts
While my fellow rogue had 1.2 mil with 71 casts
I still out damaged him by 4k overall
brave vector
I wasn't terribly behind him on the meter, his 39.9k to my 38k.
arctic walrus
What trait do you have over him
brave vector
looks like hes using dd x3 bbi, swirling, np
im using dd x2, bbi, ttk, loyal
np
Was also wearing benthic and I didn't switch to mine, so I'm sure I could have beaten if not been equal on the meters, just that DD damage bothered me really.
fallen bay
if i got 3x SS worth to play Bleed talent instead of toxic blade for raid ?
arctic walrus
No the only thing you should change into is subterfuge
vast forum
unfortunately, exsg fell behind TB shortly after uldir
and even during uldir, some people were simming higher with TB than exsg
true estuary
Hey guys! I am in need of help. Currently I have 3 Double Dose and 3 Nothing Personal. Is this okay for single target or do i need to switch it up abit?
arctic walrus
Go into top gear and see 
wooden flax
Exsg feels undertuned compared to Tb... would shortening the CD help?
civic palm
Nope.
arctic walrus
When it was 400% duration it was competitive
Not anymore though
Unless we need some very very short burst
rigid mango
Putting it on 30 it would for sure be better but
civic palm
If anything you would want the effect changed from being FASTER burn, or LONGER duration.
rigid mango
It's really just not that good
Also stems from the fact that non-ss traits are really good atm
civic palm
It might be better if it just doubled your current bleed durations given the energy we generate atm > _>
wooden flax
That is fair... the 100% faster tick just doesn’t feel as good
thick narwhal
Hey curiosity from a filthy ninja: is there even a situation where crimson tempest or does poison bomb? Or different question is the variance negligible?
rigid mango
CT in everything that isn't KR/ToS/Siege
thick narwhal
Why not those three, or why CT in everything else?
rigid mango
Because there's not consistantly enough trash that makes CT valuable
thick narwhal
I haven't touch sin since BoD
rigid mango
And they're also boss weighted dungeons to some degree
arctic socket
I prefer CT in KR for the slime room 
thick narwhal
Fuck the slime room...
arctic socket
The more bleeds the better
thick narwhal
Thanks for the info, back to the shadows to cry into my ninja stars
arctic socket
Imagine if FOK applyed DD
scarlet sequoia
imagine if
thick narwhal
You already have EB don't be greedy
atomic willow
imagine if FoK added stacks for inkpod
mystic dragon
In keys w/ 3 shrouded should I be vanishing on trash? And when should I be focused on pumping out envenom vs rupture multiple targets?
quasi pewter
you rupture until you have enough energy to sustain fok-> env or fok spam
and you vanish for dps if you dont need it for utility in next 2 mins ofc
aka silencing shit or skipping stuff
rigid mango
Just vanish after your initial bote window if you have it up, save it for utility if you know there's a caster pack coming or something of higher prio
It's generalyl a good tool to sustain high cleave dps
quasi pewter
also @atomic willow fok adds inkpod stacks
rigid mango
^
timber meadow
how does assasin aoe rotation change with a 3ss 0 eb build vs. 3ss + 2-3eb traits build?
wooden flax
Don’t think it does?
brave vector
dont we within bote?
rigid mango
With 0 EB? Probably not even.
civic palm
Noodlestorm.
arctic socket
Imagine spammin fok without eb
civic palm
tall narwhal
😄
timber meadow
gotcha so without eb
you're pretty much always mutilate
regardless of target count?
oh nm
at 4+ targets
fok to build
tall narwhal
guys forgive me for a stupid question
but does it change anything if i just use deadly poison
and not use crippling ? will the apply rate of deadly be higher then ? 😄
quasi pewter
no
arctic socket
Yeah in my opinion really there is no reason to spam FOK without eb I mean maybe once or twice to spread poison? But just get a eb trait 😂
timber meadow
oh i was just curious - im not like actively tryna play assa in keys, was just gonna give it a shot and that's what i have
faint owl
Am I better off using a 440 Spyglass over a 445 cannonball runner on single target? The CBR sims higher but I assume that's solely based on if the boss is never moved.
rigid mango
Never use CBR
arctic socket
Cbr is horrible
jolly anchor
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
strange python
how accurate is raidbots dungeon slice for assass
rigid mango
not.
strange python
assuming i want to sim more mythic plus style then, what way would i set it up in raidbots
modern kindle
Hey, quick question: does subterfuge trigger from shadowmeld?
worn cloak
when toxic blade comes off cooldown and points are capped at 5p, do you waste 1p by blading and then env, or env and then blade
i would assume not wasting it?
rigid mango
waste 1 cp
@strange python hard to, you can sim varying patchwerk target counts to try to get a grasp of things, generally it's just crit to 35-40%, mastery after, vers isn't bad either, no haste. as many ss/eb as you can get
strange python
ah, want to compare traits - i have triple shrouded, but the new 445 (to replace my 430) would drop a shrouded for an echoing blades, giving me two of each, versus 3 and 1
fervent jasper
Go 2/2 especially if it's an item level buff
worn cloak
ah ok thanks
rigid mango
2/2 is fine
worn cloak
also why im doing more dmg on the training dummy than im simming on a training dummy
o.O
fervent jasper
MAYBE not in a tyrannical kings rest or temple
rigid mango
nah, definetly.
I wouldn't run more than 1 eb in those
@modern kindle no, but you can stealth in meld. it does however trigger shrouded suff iirc.
strange python
@worn cloak Probably not attacking a raider dummy, you do increased damage on regular dummies
worn cloak
where is the raider dummy
ah next to it
xD
ok will try on this one instead, i knew something was off
rigid mango
@vapid zenith prey has niche uses such as hulk on azshara, internal bleeding for pvp and iron wire for m+.
worn cloak
oh nvm shutdown in 3 mins
vapid zenith
Thank you
strange python
feels bad when 445 chest sims lower than 430 for single target
worn cloak
what i find curious im simming for like 19k dps on subm, but 23k on sin
but im doing 26k dps on the raider dummy
without even doing it optimal, weird
on sin i burst for like 40k, on sub i burst for 30k'ish
o.o
oh well
sand whale
because sims are different to beating on a dummy
worn cloak
the sim is for a training dummy
sand whale
you can set it up to make it like that tho
worn cloak
whats that 'bleeding' disabled, does it not count rupture?
sand whale
should just link your actual sim and screenshots hard to troubleshoot otherwise
worn cloak
will tomorrow, when i can do a 5min fight on the dummy again
was just curious why there is a disparity, i didn't even enchant/gem to the sim, just wanted to see how much i do in comparsion to that currently
remote anchor
for this opener am i supposed to let the first rupture fall off and apply it again after the double garrote at the end?
tiny finch
if we are going down in heroic on 1st set, do we use vendetta on pull?
1st time doing ass on zaqul
i have no idea of the timers haha
sand whale
nah you only let the emp garrotes fall off before reapplying rupture is normal
remote anchor
alright thank you
sand whale
@tiny finch do you know if you're holding or burning? are you also going down later these will probably factor in
modern kindle
@zine thanks alot :)
tiny finch
for the burn phase
and i got 1500 ms spike on the phase so it was a shitshot hahah
but thanks my man! @sand whale
sand whale
np but I didn't do anything 😂
relcears I've been just using vendetta on CD but we always hold, I go down 2nd set for both and everything just lines up
mystic dragon
Is Helm of Inexorable Tide good on zaqul since it has both EB and DD? I have a Zaq helm at 430
limpid ibex
Hey lads, for M+, is there a rule of thumb for how many bleeds are needed for appropriate energy regen? - Otherwise I'm guessing it would be dependent on haste levels?
(3 x EB & 3 x SS)
marble hemlock
4-5
opal goblet
Hey guys. So sims are telling me that I should be using both Azshara's Font of Power and Ashvane's Razor Coral in raids. Double on-use trinkets feels weird. 😦 What's you all's experience with that?
And if that's a legit strat, which trinket should I be lining up with Vendetta? And any guidance on when to use the other?
arctic walrus
got to #tc-updates and read the paragraph on it
yes those 2 are the best trinkets to have atm
opal goblet
awesome, thank you
balmy thorn
Newbie to rogue. Just to make sure I've got this right, if Mutilate doesn't crit and I'm stuck at 4 combo points I just spend them instead of using Mutilate for 1 combo point right?
drifting cloud
yes, using mutilate at 4 combo points is one of the worst things you can do as assa
other than not applying bleeds at all I guess
balmy thorn
Aight tyty
steady owl
I see a lot of rogues using vop this week, is it because it’s tyrannical, to get an extra vendetta on the boss? Is it better than conflict and strife?
mental obsidian
what should be my 3rd minor for queen if I dont have strife? focused energy?
red bloom
Hey guys, is there some magic Haste % to get to? Im seeing a lot on warcraft logs taking crit mastery and seem to ignore haste and vers but Im just not sure why since everywhere I've read that Haste is the go to, This is for ST fights in EP
tropic ocean
yes
the one that raidbots.com tells you
@steady owl depends on dungeon mostly, but yeah vop is good for effective dmg
c&s for overall
full jungle
Haste matters but if u get an insane upgrade then it dosnt really matter too much...
opal oriole
hey guys with hidden blades do i want to use fan of knives on st?
opal oriole
What about aoe, i have 3 echoing blades traits, how many targets before i should use fok over mutilate?
modest tendon
2
I think if you are stacking DD you need like 5 targets or something for fok to do more damage
modest tendon
Well 3EB + DD is a mistake
opal oriole
Not too bad then 😛
Very pleb question btw, gonna try sin first time in a m+, what poisons do i want active? Crip and deadly correct? Wound seems like a pvp thing, just want to make sure
modest tendon
Yes
Never wounding
PVPers even go master poisoner talent to try and make up for the fact that wounding poison does 0 damage? Lol
Although I’d guess it’s more for the extended healing debuff
opal oriole
Right last question i promise, i have 1 scent of blood, how many ruptures in a dungeon is good if they live full duration?
modest tendon
Don’t think of it like that, you need 5 bleeds to get unlimited energy regen, try to aim for that
tall narwhal
can a raid build assa work in a high tyrannical key ?
maybe with a little modification
to get 1-2 SS
rigid mango
3 ss 1 np is fine
Blightborne is fine, ttk is good
You don't want any DD's though.
modest tendon
Maybe you could justify 1 in tyrannical KR but DD is really useless, on 3 minute fights SS does more ST and the playstyle of aoe is such that you will never muti on trash, it has very limited usage in m+
I would love for it to work
But alas
Just play outlaw
marble hemlock
dont play DD
you dont have the energy to support high envenom uptimes that enable DD on raid-ST
scarlet sequoia
np
rigid mango
Press when it hits pandemic
arctic socket
🤔
rigid mango
I mean what did u expect
arctic socket
I’m really here asking dumb questions when I already know the answers 🤦♂️
scarlet swift
For za’qul should I be focusing on spreading rup to all the adds or just focus single target only on boss?
rigid mango
Blast the boss
scarlet swift
Ok so pure ST
unborn rampart
which EP fight would folks recommend to use as a baseline for evaluating one's performance / identifying any glaring issues? (coming back to high-end raiding after about a year away)
arctic walrus
Sivara
vast forum
any of the first 4 bosses is a patchwerk fight
if you wanna evaluate your performance as a class, any of those 4 will do
agile tulip
hey, what was that spammable item that prevents you from getting silenced during queen's court decree from the orderhall in legion called?
arctic walrus
Detection
agile tulip
ty
versed bobcat
boys, which piece to buy from vendor? something i need and dont get in raid ?<3
rigid mango
Shoulders.
Zaq helm and behemoth chest are bis, goraks is bis from vendor for the shoulder slot
versed bobcat
thanks mate 🙂
dark crag
is azeritepowerweights any good? the values from hero dmg have np at 0
arctic walrus
Not really best to just sim
dark crag
just for quick view, but np at 0 seems off. For my bm alt the values were ok and are the same in topgear sim
rapid smelt
My guild started M azshara progress yesterday and i am trying to CC chain the Hulk, binding shoot into kidney but isnt working.
dark crag
the crucible stuff in legion was nice
it won't replace sims, but having quick infos about stuff is always good. if it works
unborn rampart
wowanalyzer still good for self-analyzing raid logs?
(i presume linking logs here and asking for folks to take a look at any red flags / room for improvement is frowned up?)
modest tendon
Erm it’s the other way around actually
unborn rampart
meaning it is ok to link logs and ask folks to take a look?
if so, here is a sivara parse:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gKt4WvrfAh8x3VN7#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=18
and the wowanalyzer (including gear):
https://wowanalyzer.com/report/gKt4WvrfAh8x3VN7/1-Mythic+Abyssal+Commander+Sivara+-+Kill+(3:21)/Alca/standard
apart from not using arcane torrent on the boss, anything jump out? ability usage? gear? enchants/gems?
{if not, let me know and i can delete}
arctic walrus
Have you simmed your gems and enchants
Chill on the poison knives
Don’t Tb if you know you’re moving out soon
You had a lot of instances where u weren’t doing any damage
No reason you shouldn’t have paired your 2nd set of cds better
Your MA windows need to be more consistent
halcyon gull
Hola! Do I want to try and get garrote up on as many targets as possible with 3 SS in m+? (If they'll live for 8+ seconds) Which means rotation is pretty much to open up with 3 boosted garrotes + 1 weak, spam FoK and rupture targets till garrote is off CD. Then spam FoK->rupture and repeat?
If so... when and how do I use Blood of the enemy? Had printed something about it but can't seem to find it 😦 Thanks in advance!
strange python
Opener is in the Pins
halcyon gull
Just realized. I'm an idiot. Thank you!
strange python
And icyveins Guide got it covered as well
Written by seli
Hey stabbers, does simc uses coral/inkpod at 30% correctly?
Trying to figure out my bests ST trinkets
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sLe59v7Atz1nUzKJnnKC3D
unborn rampart
ty @arctic walrus (and yes, have simmed gems and enchants -- 5m patchwerk)
cobalt pelican
coral isn't claimed for inkpod for assassination in simc no, it's used with vendetta cause that showed to be a larger overall gain at the time
arctic walrus
It’s a 415 anyway, pretty shit
bright tusk
I'm cleaving on orgozoa, got 2 eb and 2 scent of blood, I have the possibility to swap swirling sands for an additional scent of blood. What do you think?
Extra agi from SoB or extra crit from SS?
My crit is 2,021 (38%)
arctic walrus
The sob is fine
bright tusk
so 3sob over 2sob+1ss?
Ty
restive crater
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mzu2x3BhT4kWVQpyNQy3uw
Need some help cleaning up my gameplay. I average 37k-40k dps but sim higher. Any advice is appreciated. Can post logs as well if that will help.
arctic walrus
Logs more helpful but you need to sim with no buffs if you want to see your real dps
Private
restive crater
arctic walrus
You pool too too much
Get better azerite get a font
You’re upgrading your benthics without sockets
restive crater
What azerite items should i aim for.
arctic walrus
ZAq helm, gorak Tuls, and blackwater chest
cobalt pelican
quite a lot to easily fix from the pull you linked
the opener is wrong including the fact you're not using your 1st clf with vend for somer eason
you didn't use vanish with vend either
you have a tb with a single envenom and no mutilates inside it somehow etc
energy capped 6x in the fight
strange python
can i trust dungeonslice sims for assa? it's saying to stack quite a lot of haste
arctic walrus
No don’t
arctic walrus
Thanks fairy in class couldn’t look too much into it 
If you have 2+ eb yeah
Otherwise just get mastery
cobalt pelican
make sure you're reapplying your coral on time too, you had a whole minute between redeeming the crit and reapplying the debuff, a weakaura might help if you're forgetful
(and remember to claim the crit before the boss dies)
restive crater
Is there a magic number of stacks I should claim during a fight?
cobalt pelican
just claim crit with each vendetta and once just before the boss dies (ideally 20seconds before the boss dies but that can be a little hard to calculate if you're not experienced)
tough dome
For use in M+ is it dumb to swap out a 450 piece for a 435 piece just for trait combinations? trying to add more eb while keeping 3xSS but to do it I need to use 435 gear.
current build using two 450 pieces is 3xSS 1xEB 2xTTK
unborn rampart
is there a good list of EP tips for sin rogues apart from https://www.wowhead.com/guides/assassination-rogue-eternal-palace-raid-tips-bfa ?
hushed maple
Hey guys shall I sim for 5minute Patchwerk or 3-4Minute?
cobalt pelican
that depends what you want it for
hushed maple
Well typical raiding I think
rigid mango
Just sim 45
hushed maple
I am not playing Mythic raids, tho besides the first 3 bosses
rigid mango
5*
hushed maple
alrighty
silk stump
for next progress tier what you think will be better for progress? lw / enge / jc?
silk stump
azerite helm 475 with double dose
icy ember
ya but isn't that helm far from bis
silk stump
but if you already have 1 azerite 475 is 1 less slot to focus on residum gamble at start
meager nebula
you get it early so you can trade other helms
dense cedar
bright tusk
Will attacking orgozoa front on instead of behind lower dps?
Due to parry and such?
Like on Sivara
bright tusk
yes, my tanks just changed their way of tanking so now everyone is attacking orgo front on instead..
meager nebula
dunno about that one chief
void sundial
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d5eUuvb87Aj91PMr3ePFXP This is my report, I sim 23k, AoE I do 26k(+) and singletarget it depends, but most cases, like 10k, is there something I have missed?
arctic walrus
are you talking boss fights in m+
void sundial
yes.
tall narwhal
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
tall narwhal
what about using coral in raids as assa ?
arctic walrus
You should gem your gear kjell
tall narwhal
i use it at start, and pop it on next vendetta ?
arctic walrus
and does your mechagon trinket not have any cards in it? it's literally an item slot at that point
yes you pop on pull and use on your 2nd vendetta, when you actually have stacks
then 20s later you reapply, and use with your 3rd vendetta
rinse and repeat
tall narwhal
thanks mate
arctic walrus
what's your opener on a boss kjell
void sundial
tbh I stealth for the 3x garrote, then Rupture, vandetta, spam Mutilate and one Toxic Blade, then use envenom and repeat till I apply my Rupture again
void sundial
garrote and then rupture even with 1 cp?
drifting cloud
you wont have 1 cp because you have ss
tall narwhal
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tall narwhal
guys from the pinned section,
what do these numbers mean ?
G1 G2 G3 CT FoK R1 BotE 5xFoK
tropic ocean
it means on aoe dmg u in m+ u open with 3 garrote on 3 targets
tall narwhal
ahhh
tropic ocean
then u use crimson tempest, 1x fan of knives, do 1 ruptures pop your blood of the enemy essence and then just spam 5x fan of knives
hushed maple
okay...
I will have to practice even more
atleast the Za'qul was decent
😮
not assassination, tho
harsh sphinx
hushed maple
I fcked up so badly on Court
wild edge
what is better bentic belt or azshara?