You essentially get nearly every mutilate in the env window anyways
#assassination
rigid mango
But since the BiS builds both have a TTK in them, it's super forgiving, even more so with the current value you get from lucid, iris and everything else with random haste procs, pooling isn't as big of a deal @polar glade
It's a very miniscule gain to do so realistically.
winged pumice
best stat to stack for m+?
winged pumice
ok, is it just me or does single target feel really slow (lots of down time) and poor dps and ok
in m+ that is
marble hemlock
yeah, unfortunately assa st dps in m+ is very underwhelming
esp compared to all the dps that play traits that are good for both aoe and st like DH, outlaw or WW
But theres nothing you can do about it, we still gear for AoE for the most part and have to deal with the fact that our ST wont be great
winged pumice
yeah okay, thought it might have just been a problem with my gear. that sucks because i really enjoy sin aoe
36%crit 10%haste 4%vers 33% mastery looking good?
polar glade
@rigid mango Thx alot for clarifying it, ye it was pooling i was talking about so you always end up using it in envenom buff 😛
blazing tulip
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
steady owl
Is 40% crit to much for m+? I have 3 eb. 2ss
tropic ocean
No
Might want to get 3 ss and drop some crit for mastery but 40% with 3eb is more than fine
steady owl
I do that in dungeons with smaller packs. How long should I sim for boss fights on tyrannical? 3 min?
hushed maple
round about 3 mins, yes
steady owl
I had 34% crit and 60% mastery and had go down to 49% mastery to get 40 crit. I’m not sure if that was a good idea but I haven’t really got to try It yet. I think i need to switch some gear around. I have 8% haste maybe I can take some form there
tropic ocean
well crit gets worse the more you get so
Just play around and find whats good for you
marble hemlock
crit value is very high due to how it scales with EB on AoE, until you consistently get 5 crits (so the maximum amount of echoes) per fok
at which point crit value plummets, and obviously that is different based on group, dungeon etc.
if you pull really big, 30-35% crit are enough to get 5echoes every fok, if you pull smaller you will need higher to get the best value out of your EB
inner sonnet
8% haste sounds close to what you get just from the haste on your level 65 heart
You might not be able to lose more
steady owl
Can someone explain to me exactly how eb works? I don’t really get it. “For each of the first 5 critical strikes, it will fire a second spray of knives at that location” is that per fok? So I need to fok at least 5 targets to to get 5 echoes?
I have some wrists I can replace that has haste
hushed maple
per fok
yes
press once get 5 crits and a new fok comes
but only that coming from you will trigger new ones
steady owl
Ok thanks
hushed maple
But there is no point in playing MT Assa anyway
Outlaw will give Sin the fish in every scenario
gusty mirage
Well unless you hate outlaw, then there is a point in playing MT sin
steady owl
I love playing assa
gusty mirage
The number one rogue on raider.io in NA plays assassination. He seems to do just fine
rigid mango
doesn't matter in a majority if random keys
shadow agate
Where are people popping Blood in their opener in M+ on bosses? My openers have felt pretty strong but I feel like I could be doing better. It's not addressed in the opener on the site.
idle lily
do we need 3 SS on our gear?
shadow agate
alright thanks, just wanted to make sure. blood after tb felt like I was wasting an envenom in the window, but nothing else felt right
wooden orchid
No cool agility 1 handers next patch 😦
rigid mango
So far.
harsh sphinx
rigid mango
If anything it's less of a drag not getting that hugely OP weapon
wooden orchid
I can see that yea
rigid mango
But yeah, kinda does suck tho 
wooden orchid
Some of the other weapons look tooooo good
signal ruin
Hi folks - wondering what the lowest % I can let my haste drop to - I don’t raid and only do mythic +
arctic walrus
8-10 is good to be around
signal ruin
Wait really? That seems nuts I’m sitting on 19
rigid mango
Yeah, get that shit low
signal ruin
How situational is that
deep solstice
Follow your sim, as always....crit stacking is good for M+ if you have EB, not so much for raid. But everything always depends on your gear, traits, etc...
anyone ran any numbers on the 8.3 essences yet?
rigid mango
Hard to without sims 😉
vagrant pawn
i am new to rogue, what is the stat priority and what are the weakauras i need for sin?
arctic walrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic walrus
take one from there you like
stat priority isn't a big deal, sim your top gear and stick with it
wooden orchid
Oh dam all the new weps have 25 base corruption of the one use ones. That makes them less op.
vagrant pawn
ok thank you @arctic walrus
rigid mango
Yeah, essentially means they have to outvalue what, 6% ish crit damage?
or something
wooden orchid
They nerfed the crit modifiers so it'll be hard the manage the corruptions if you get the high tier one
If they remain stackable it's probable going to be like 3 low tier crit pieces be BIS
tacit wing
what talents do assassination rogues run in m+ these days?
rigid mango
ep subterfuge vigor toxic blade pb/ct
vagrant pawn
what are raiding st talents and aoe talents for sin?
arctic walrus
Go read up on the wowhead guide if you're completely lost in the spec
vagrant pawn
ok doing that right now. thank you!
wind moth
finally playing a little bit of rogue world mobs are so easy to kill xD
and here i thought it would be hard
was killing elites pretty easily
lone junco
@vagrant pawn SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->
frigid briar
is that opener up to date noobe?
rigid mango
afaik the opener is up to date in there
frigid briar
I didnt check the linked guide in like 5 months
yeah think it is, I just read first where it read no SS traits = Garrote mut to finish CP
rigid mango
That one's pretty useless tbh.
Some of them are
SS and MA with TB are only relevant ones.
dapper thicket
What is the best essence combination for pvp?
gusty mirage
Lucid minor for sure, conflict is nice to have to make you a little more tanky. I run crucible major/lucid + C&F minors
gusty mirage
for arena that is, for BGs its kinda whatever I queue into
drifting cloud
they will know better :d
gusty mirage
^
dapper thicket
Ok cool, still working on C&S, till I get that one up, what is a decent minor substitute?
gusty mirage
Focusing iris should be a good minor to have for arena too because of the stacking haste, but I'd def ask in the pvp chat cause I'm only 1800 and my knowledge is limited
dapper thicket
Ok, thank thanks for the advice.
agile heath
why do we refresh rupture / garrote when there is still 5+ seconds left on timer?
per assassination guide etc
rigid mango
Pandemic
-Pandemic relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.
latent gazelle
440 spyglass or 430 w/socket? for M+
rigid mango
Look at them both
latent gazelle
guessing socket but wanted to check
rigid mango
Iirc socket is worth 15 ilvls on the effect so
distant halo
Reading that guide is agility really our top stat? I’ll sim myself when I get back into it (I only just came back last night) but from 8.2 at least I know agy was so far below any secondary
civic palm
Yeah things will move around a bit for ST and MT but AGI is kinda weak the entire way.
distant halo
Yeah thanks. I did a few quick m+s last nights to test my new rig, and was reluctant to remove my (once perfect) statted+simmed gear from 8.2 in place of just a basic ilvl upgrade
arctic walrus
Just sim top gear. stat priority is an archaic way of looking at things now. All things considered, one agi gem is favored due to it providing about double that of a regular secondary gem
distant halo
Yeah Thankyou. It’s all a bit overwhelming with the new (to me) essences out and how they interact with the simming, considering I was spending hours just looking at different sets before the essences hit I’m going to have to go for the deep dive eventually. I guess there was a tiny part of me that after reading that agy was just purely the best that I had some hope That I wouldn’t have to sim as much
stiff vale
Might sound like a stupid question, here goes tho. Would you guys recommend going assa or outlaw this week for +17 and up keys ? I've got good sets for both outlaw, I just can't figure out which is suited better this week
I guess it depends on my gear and the dungeon we're doing though, really. Lol
arctic walrus
Both are fine. it's personal preference. If you want the true best choice you go outlaw then
stiff vale
Yeah, the only thing I dislike with outlaw is my st feels like it can be inconsistent compared to outlaw
Appreciate it though!
flint compass
cobalt pelican
on a tyrannical week at a reasonable key level assassinations boss numbers will be consistent but consistently lower than outlaw
stiff vale
oh, lmao
my bad. I meant to say that my outlaw single target feels inconsistent compared to assa. Just got off work lol tired as fuck
idk maybe I'm just not as good at outlaw ST somehow, lol. running 3ace 2, ds, 1 wits. But this isn't the outlaw channel :p
steady owl
Twist the knife is generally seen as a better trait than scent of blood right? Depending on what you’re doing, but when I sim with Blackwater shimmerscale for m+ scent sims higher for me than Ttk on more than 3 targets, does that mean I should use it?
rigid mango
No, it still means ttk is better
steady owl
Because I get higher prio target and boss damage? I also sim higher on dungeon slice with scent
crisp steppe
if you don't have a copy of ttk yet then just go with that. the first copy is nice for boss dmg.
scent is trash on bosses mostly. you can just try them out see what you like better. unlikely to ruin your run
rigid mango
Scent is ok for aoe but super lackluster st
Ttk does good boss damage and adds a bit of prio/lowtarget/general damage
distant lava
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
deft patio
thx
swift moss
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
deep solstice
If running CT in keys, do we keep CT up on bosses?
brave vector
I believe ct is only worth on 2+ targets
deep solstice
the Patchwerk API seems to be set up that way, ya
vast forum
never CT on ST
graceful mirage
why would you even CT on single target? it doesn't even proc Venomous Wounds, does it?
arctic walrus
nope
wet yew
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
hoary crown
rigid mango
Blood
tropic ocean
@graceful mirage it wouldnt need to the only question that would be needed if it does more dmg in the gcd used than another spell
Which it doesnt
tough dome
is blood favored over CLF for raid or is it specific to fight?
arctic walrus
specific to fight
tough dome
I just got blood r3 and I've just used it for m+ so far
arctic walrus
It's good on azshara and zaq due to better timings
If you choose to go aoe build it's fine on orgo as well
tough dome
cool thanks @arctic walrus
for m+ essences, if you run blood maj, what are people running for minor, I don't have r3 c&s yet, I wasn't sure if iris would be helpful because of the single target haste thing, does CLF pull ahead of flame for a minor?
opal cipher
I'm gearing an assassination alt and how necessary is blood to grind out? I looked at the Wowhead and it doesn't look like it's a top priority to get. I'm not sure if I'll make my rogue my main for the next tier
rigid mango
Blood best for m+
And the best for certain raid encounters, in this tier, the two las
opal cipher
Blood beats out beam?
rigid mango
Yep
opal cipher
Huh alright, looks like I'm in for a grind
dark crag
full zerg zaqul, 1 echo phase and i get trolled the last seconds of the fight
i drop out of delirium and full stun
finally bis...
shut garnet
why do so many rogues play coral on azshara
and wtf do you do with it past either 1st or 2nd lady when you pull it out for like 2k crit
upper canyon
i feel obligated to play coral since mines 455 socket, but i usually just let it rip on the 2nd hulk in phase 1 and reapply when aszhara comes out
shut garnet
ye but
after you use it on 1st lady in pt3
you cant really efficiently use it on anything
do you just spam place it on myrmidons until phase 4
then put it on azshara and save it till 2nd set of cds?
rigid mango
wdym you just put it on azshara
or just consume on myrmiddons
It's fine
after 2nd lady you don't care about dps anyways?
So you just use it in p4 as usual
shut garnet
so between using it on 1st/2nd lady and p4 start
it just doesnt matter how you use it?
rigid mango
not really
dps doesn't matter in p3
past 2nd mistress
You're just surviving and doing simple bursts that anyone can do
3rd mistress is just about doing mechanics not doing dmg
shut garnet
true
tyvm
but then surely inkpod gets more value in the fight as a whole, no?
since it procs on everything you touch and you can usually get it to like 60 stacks on azshara
rigid mango
Idk coral worked fine for me
Idk what's better, hard to see
Coral gives good damage wherever you need it really
p4 is a joke now anwyays
tbf it always kinda has been
shut garnet
we wiped on it at 9%, 6% and 5% one after another
rigid mango
Yah kill is whenever tbh
shut garnet
legit hardest thing about it is ppl not fucking up soaks so you're right yeah
rigid mango
p4 is a joke
shut garnet
legit 
to not run to the console and soak when u see u dont have any stacks
rigid mango
So hard to pressure surge now
tropic ocean
Inkpod is big if u can hit dps checks on adds w/o font
so u can stack coral and inkpod until 30%
robust river
M+ - Elemental Whirl or Unstable Flames?
dark crag
Overwhelming power, but crit is not bad
arctic walrus
@shut garnet you do have the option of running inkpod. However it wouldn't replace the coral but rather the font. Even with minimal stacks, not having to extract it to get 20s of some crit % is good and makes it worth
You can hit like 5 targets with it, assuming 2 adds and 3 myrmidons
strange python
what's the change to fan of knives? unclear
rigid mango
If you're referring to the one that happened with 8.2.5 it was just a tooltip change
dark crag
Foks tooltip listed %ap based cp generation
strange python
Fan of Knives Sprays knives at all targets within 10 yards, dealing (20.5% of Attack power) Physical damage and applying your active poisons at their normal rate.
Awards 20.5% of Attack power) combo points.1 combo points.
so unclear what this means
robust river
8.2.5 was tool tip change
rigid mango
It's the same thing
Yeah.
Pretty sure that was literally the same thing that was in 8.2.5 some reason it's there too or something
But yeah, nothing.
marble hemlock
its because for a while it showed the AP scaling as the amount of combopoints gained
which was just hotfixed, and now its listed in the actual patchnotes
hasty fiber
yall recommend conflict and strife r3 or vision of perfection r2 for m+
i think vision r2 is without the minor verse buff
rigid mango
@marble hemlock weren't you running VoP the other day on stream or somethign?
marble hemlock
yes
rigid mango
how did it feel/what situations
marble hemlock
just feels nice in tyra weeks where you get a 3rd vendetta because of it
also makes it line up nicely with bote
and doesnt create awkward cd-delay situations where you have bote ready for a minute but cant use it until 2:30 into the fight when vanish finally comes off cd
marble hemlock
instead you pop vanish freely on trash, have it back up for 2nd vendetta+bote at 1:35, then haveit back up again for the first trashpull after
vast forum
sounds fun
marble hemlock
overall just makes the cd usage feel much smoother
vast forum
on high tyrannical i guess 😛
rigid mango
Sounds interesting
marble hemlock
even outside of tyrannical, g etting to use vanish on trash freely might be worth it anyway
also means you wont end a 3min encounter with blood on 1min cd
vast forum
yea, but on fort, it might not net you an additional vendetta
marble hemlock
instead you can make an informed decision when the boss is at 10% at 3min, whether you wanna pop blood again or keep it for the next trashpack
well, with 2min bossfights you still gain 1vendetta 🙂
vast forum
well
marble hemlock
and with 2m30 bossfights there was always the question whether its even worth to pop a second set of CDs when the boss is almost dead anyway
vast forum
anything between 2.20 and 3.20, you don't gain much 😛
and that's where most fort bosses go i think
vast forum
i'd play around with it if i could play assa in keys
but i feel like 2ss isn't fun on nelf 😦
marble hemlock
i think morning has taken a liking to the visions as well, atleast this week
Pop an NP in there, run coral, and you get pretty consistent and reliable burst windows every minute, and you actually do pretty solid ST with it.
wind moth
ok got benthic and have 3 shrouded suffocation traits
apparently this is the bleed build can't wait to see how bursty it is
arctic walrus
Why not just run dd though?
wind moth
except i have 12 characters and won't have time to raid on them
it's 390 gear anyway need to get higher ilev, this just so happened to be on my benthic gear
3 SS 2 DD 1 Tides with 2 OP
arctic walrus
Yikes
wind moth
don't have a NP trait
okay this is way too easy everything just falls over to Garrote damage 
meanwhile my Unholy DK struggled getting the first essence
vast forum
@marble hemlock personal opinion: would you drop secondaries for a lot of stamina (socket for ilvl on rings)?
marble hemlock
ye
im using 455 crit/mastery instead of 435socketed one of the same type
its "only" 3k hp
but it adds up over a few pieces
marble hemlock
esp since we run basically 0 versa
vast forum
but i'm considering if i would do it in a different situation too
marble hemlock
like, i almost got oneshot with feint in FH23 on 1st boss
cause 0 versa, we have no RP or IVs
were just a sack of meat defensively speaking
vast forum
oof
wind moth
so how many mobs can you hit with Subterferge-boosted Garrotes?
vast forum
o w8 i'm talking about my outlaw build xD
wind moth
i'm managing to hit 3
vast forum
3
wind moth
against a single target do you garrote twice?
wind moth
so i'm doing it right nice
marble hemlock
(i usually go for g-g-r in m+ because doing g-r-g when you start the fight with 0CP means that your rupture runs out at the tail-end of your bote+vendetta, which just sucks ass)
near python
@marble hemlock I feel like when I talked about going vision minor for m+ you told me I was stupid
But then again you call me stupid anytime I say anything 🤔
marble hemlock
youre the type of clock where im not sure if it even is right twice a day
vast forum
i usually save CP before boss tho
marble hemlock
depends on how the pull ends
sometimes you gotta hit the last-second rupture so you start with full energy if you pull boss 2sec after
but @near python i actually dont remember when we last talked about it
think it was pretty early into the season, back then i still felt assa could do good damage and i played lucid major 😄
was definitely a smart idea to try visions imo
near python
It was like 2-3 weeks ago, but you probably just didn't pay a lot of attention 😡
marble hemlock
hmm
i only remember talking about it when i was tanking a few months ago and you plaed assa in waycrest
but yeah, mightve been that i was just listening with one ear
and you gave me the idea in the first place
❤
near python
maybe ❤
marble hemlock
check si7
timber meadow
If we’re not having issues with adds is it worth just saving stacks on azshara for an absolute nut in p4?
Coral stacks
dark crag
With inkpod, yes
strange python
Hey, not sure if this is possib to do, but i've been looking a way to do a garrote weakaura, that shows the dot time aswell as the spell cd. As i have the IQ of a shoe size 
i have no clue how to get it working
prisma valve
You can use a template
Go new template garrote and show duration and cd or something
strange python
Mmkay, will give that a try, had one earlier on, but it was made with custom code, got outdated so everytime i garroted something i got lua error 
Thanks Licorice!
prisma valve
Otherwise if it isn't what you want, I could fix something in the evening, but I work for 9 hours or so now
rapid flame
was asked to back & raid with my previous guild, come next tier - they told me to play my warlock & not my rogue 😦 feelsmeleeman
dark crag
You can use an icon with 2 texts, one shows duration the other cd and glows when ready
With conditions you can make the duration different colors for pandemic effect too. No custom code needed
strange python
Ooh right! That sounds like a plan, gonna have to give that a try @dark crag after i get off of work
dark crag
WA has all the tools to achieve things without the need for custom code. Once you get the first steps, you can build all kinds of stuff. All my was except the raid ones are made by myself. When you have a good setup you can also copy/paste for other classes
lost horizon
That's how I worked with WAs too
Found a set up I liked, built what I wanted with just the basic stuff
Use the same format for all my characters
Then started bastardizing more complicated WAs by hamfisting their code chunks
dusky bronze
this guy runs 3x SS and has ful legendary logs, how come? ive never seen someone runnning 3x ss
and how can i find out to run what traits on each boss
mythic raiding wise
rigid mango
bec it's essentially good with fast kill timerms
You should be using standard ST setup on literally every fight this tier
This guy just plays well, with still quite good pieces, and has really good kill timers
dusky bronze
standart setup mean 3x DD 1-2x NP 1x infusion
rigid mango
Standard is what sims best
this tier, it's 2 dd 1 loyal np ttk bbi
Something that's very near equal and works if you don't have enough loyals around, it'd be 3 dd 1 ttk np bbi
Both of the builds have 3 op.
Zaqul helm + gorak tuls + blackwater/Cephalohide
modern stump
Might not be the right channel to ask, but is there any point in doing Unshackled after you've got rank 3 Lucid?
drifting cloud
only for r4s or meta mount achiev
wind moth
not really seeing it with DD but i assume it's better on sustaining single target
as opposed to SS
primal turret
its is worth to use garrote/rupture even tho the dot duration wont stack in order to not use it during toxic blade debuff and save those global cooldowns time for mutilate/envenenom?
primal turret
Ty
scarlet sequoia
it has begun 🤣
wide hedge
What is your highest ST Sim atm @scarlet sequoia ?
scarlet sequoia
not that high anymore
arctic walrus
💔
hidden bay
drifting merlin
For m+ , running BotE how should I use it ? Just got it but I’m unsure how to maximize its dmg output
latent gazelle
G,g,g,r,bote, fok
drifting merlin
Thx 🙂
arctic walrus
Just you wait, next week is big font week for me
scarlet sequoia
no its just bugged
distant lava
arctic walrus
Shhh keep it down
arctic walrus
Socket font alone takes me to 55.3 
hollow cloak
i need better ring, like 430 socketed
atm 455 versa/mastery what i would want replace
hasty fiber
Broken fuckers
Also i dont have gorak tuls shoulders and blackwater chest
Cause shit rng
but i am saving for it now
scarlet sequoia
sims are only cool in the first few weeks of a tier smh
if u dont have mostly bis by now ure doing it wrong
tropic ocean
pls teach me how i can get the right loots
hasty fiber
ive only seen one blackwater chest drop and that was a dh rolling bonus loot
And i also have a gambling residuum problem
idc about getting gorak tuls too much cause my gear still pumps
hasty fiber
what are you missing besides maybe a godly socketed font
hasty fiber
Ahhh zaq helm is a must have, but eng helm is its closer equivalent too
hasty fiber
what helm are you currently using?
hasty fiber
Oh yeah that ones pretty ass
robust river
I need ZQ helm but we are locking on Azshara I think 😦
tropic ocean
ye had the same issue old guild extended zaqul + azshara only
shut garnet
@hollow cloak does that build actually sim higher than the normal one for 2:15-2:30 fights?
hasty fiber
Youll defo get it thomas shelby
tropic ocean
And new guild has not downed azshara yet
hollow cloak
@shut garnet yes
tropic ocean
so i only have 5-6 kills up to orgozoa and only 1 zaqul kill 😭
hasty fiber
zacool is kinda my least fav boss
Cause my guild doesnt have the fast strat down yet
robust river
On Za'qul fight my numbers suck dick. Do you guys do adds and stuff or just go pure ST? I'm not going in red realm (too many ranged with AOE shit)
NOTE: Only doing Heroic
Anywhere I can see logs for that fight?
arctic walrus
You’re not going to do “good” damage Unless you full commit to dealing pointless damage
If you focus the small adds you can take advantage of the huge damage buff against them
That’s how people parse
Just go full single target
robust river
Not even worried about parsing. I usually do around 35-39k in Heroic other bosess. Was pulling like 22k haha
Was pathetic
But I don't know the fight well I guess which doesn't help
I messed up 2nd tear cooldowns too
M+. We still prioritising Crit+Mastery > Vers > Haste? 3 EB+ 2 SS trait preferences?
As a rough guide
shy axle
would you prio a third SS over a second EB even outside of dungeons with low trash like kr/tos ? Or just go 2/2/2 then, wich should still be acceptable?
arctic walrus
3 ss 1eb or 3ss3eb is good
deep solstice
Or 2 SS because you're a pleb with engi helm 😦
How much stock is it worth putting in the Dungeon Slice sim for sin? Like is it even remotely worth using as a guide?
rigid mango
Not really, no.
shy axle
would you really only use 1 Eb and 3 SS instead of 2/2 in trash heavy dungeons? I would have thought 2/2/2 in this case, but idk about the value of 3ss
kind eagle
random question i just got a dagger upgrade for my offhand but its a higher ilvl than my main hand should i move the higher one to main hand and reenchant?
kind eagle
so you're 100% pos the enchant hands don't matter
kind eagle
word
steady wolf
guys, whats the difference between minor slot of crucible and conflict, like you pick crucible when u have enough versatility of what?
strange python
Oh about that, I wonder you use Crimson Vial, is there a chance that Crucible will proc on you? Totally useless and pointless question but its just a thought
rigid mango
You pick what sims best, that's how you determine which to use
You're always locked into lucid in one slot, there's nothing that uses anything else
Normally for raid, iris takes the 2nd minor slot, but strife has uses on multi target fights when you dot a lot and haste loses value
And or you target swap often
For m+ strife is really good, but there's people who run stuff like VoP etc.
random pollen
Is 3ss still the way to go? Tried reading above messages but i havnt been on disc in over 6 months lol
rose sky
For this week I liked 3xSS 2xNP 1xTtK
rigid mango
For m? Yeah.
That sounds awful
I wouldn't even want 2 NP on my raid set, let alone in m+.
random pollen
What about raids?
rose sky
I just got gorak shoulda so will be swapping to BB
rigid mango
2 dd 1 loyal ttk bbi np 3op is BiS if you have 4 loyals, 3 dd 1 ttk bbi np 3 op if you don't.
random pollen
Lmao i dont know what any of that means. I havnt played since ghuunb
Ill look it up tho
Thanks!
rigid mango
DD = double dose, ttk = twist the knife, np = nothing personal, bbi = blightborne infusion, loyal = loyal to the end, op = overwhelming power
rigid mango
Nope
random pollen
Do you run the poisom thing or ct on that
rigid mango
You run toxic blade and poison bomb
random pollen
Ah okay
Will try it out
Im like 370ilvl gho
Gotta grind lol
You the real mvp tho thanks
rigid mango
arctic walrus
Exsang bad hm yes 
rigid mango
rose sky
@rigid mango what is the azerite build you should be shooting for?
rigid mango
for m+?
bright tusk
A vast majority of all assa logs on Orgozoa the players use Razor Coral and Spyglass, can someone explain to me why? Is it because it's a long fight and only single target more or less?
rose sky
Raid
rigid mango
You'd be looking at
Zaq helm - Gorak tuls - Blackwater for loyal, cephalohide if not
@bright tusk They're also running pad builds
tropic ocean
@bright tusk cuz crit > all in constant 4+ target cleave
bright tusk
"pad builds", please elaborate if you have the patience? I don't understand the term
rigid mango
Using Eb traits to maximise overall damage
but essentially useless in terms of actual progression/killing the boss
bright tusk
I see, they are also using 2-3eb and 2~ scent of blood most of the time.
Since I can't get those traits, should I stay with Font of Power and coral? O.o
random pollen
So 3 ss in m+ and 2 dd 1 loyal ttk bbi np 3op is BiS if you have 4 loyals, 3 dd 1 ttk bbi np 3 op if you don't. For raiding correct
arctic walrus
You need at least 1 eb for dungeons, but yes
random pollen
Eb is what again sorry
arctic walrus
Echoing blades
random pollen
Ah yeah just saw it on bloodnallet
drowsy snow
do you ever munch the TB CPs to make sure first TB window cast is envenom?
fading wigeon
@rose sky seems strange for M+.. I went 2TK 2 SS 2EB .. was beautiful
drowsy snow
nvm found in search
mighty torrent
For M+ what sort of baseline % crit Vers and mastery would you want? currently running 35% crit 9% vers and 32% mastery
rose sky
@fading wigeon it was Whst I had to work with
inner sonnet
@drowsy snow you should be on 3-4 CPs pre TB, so the next gcd is envenom. Assass is a plan spec, add that to your plans 😁
strange python
Hey Guys i have a little Problem I have that Set with: Twist & NP and there other is: DD & Twist. I would reset the first for Outlaw is it a big Dmg lost? So i get from it ACE + Deadshot
actually i have 2x Twist 1x NP 1x DD 1x Loyal
harsh sphinx
I'd sim it to be certain. might be worth reforging for you.
strange python
i have sim it its like 700 dps
stiff tartan
what stats is bis for m+ ?
harsh sphinx
i see. well 2x twist is unnecessary but go with whatever sims highest even if you have to reforge, why gimp yourself?
strange python
For KR, do people still go for EB in fortified?
rigid mango
I only play 1
versed mica
hey guys I don't want to make you guys too jealous but
I got a font upgraded with speed 
graceful mirage
S P E E D
turbid osprey
yo i saw some people mention an order hall thing you can use on QC for the repeat performance decree? whats it called agian?
royal lantern
detection?
turbid osprey
kk ty ill look up how to get it
royal lantern
its skillbook that gives you the detection skill that is ussules except for getting the bag of coins and for cheesing the decree
turbid osprey
finally killed orgozoa, gonna get it before next raid QC prog but we're gonna smash our heads into it for a bit now
yeah just looked it up on wowhead
ty
outer pier
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
drowsy snow
does tb buff inkpod dmg?
drifting cloud
no
drowsy snow
😦
harsh sphinx
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cunning needle
hey does anyone know if there's a WA that shows how long before you cap out your energy bar?
jaunty crystal
best raid spec. Slightly behind in M+ depending on your gear, but still really good.
mild prawn
do ppl play crimson tempest? or is it still poison bomb all the way like i remember
mild prawn
expample where you choose 1 over the other
gusty mirage
Typically dungeons with high health trash so you can make the most of the dot damage
gusty mirage
I’d say more of a KR than feeehold
mild prawn
i just said a rndm dungeon
mild prawn
Crimson tempest now
right?
every other scenario poison bomb
Like
we talking bout crimson tempest
gusty mirage
I’d play with both and get a feel for whichever you prefer for your play style. I didn’t like playing with CT all that much (probably because I’m a combination of lazy and really bad at it), so I pretty much stick with PB
mild prawn
not playing it this week
gusty mirage
Yeah I wouldn’t play CT on tyran weeks personally
mild prawn
me neither
modest tendon
It depends if you need the extra boss damage though
Like a boss with a dps check like sisters sure
But I play assa as the aoe carry so my damage is usually mediocre
gusty mirage
God bless you for sticking with sub @modest tendon ❤️😂
mild prawn
No one lets me pla sub
jaunty crystal
I haven't played sub since like mythic zul lol
mild prawn
^
modest tendon
I might make it my goal to get 2k Rio on sub haha
Might take it into raids next patch too
gusty mirage
It’s def possible Morningwind on area 52 us messes around in like 18-20s as sub lol
mild prawn
i am thinking of going rogue either 8.3 or shadowlands
jaunty crystal
I honestly don't have a single idea if sub is good or bad because literally 0 streamers play it and I hven't bothered playing it either
gusty mirage
I mean sub’s not atrocious, it’s just you gotta work for your damage and if there’s a lot of movement rip to your dps
modest tendon
In raids it’s fine
It’s tuned slightly lower than assa
But that’s it really
You just need high uptime fights for it to be good
mild prawn
better than arcane mage
drifting cloud
lol no, arcane mage is miles ahead of sub
modest tendon
The only boss it’s really bad on is court
drifting cloud
too bad you can only link screens but cant interpret them
gusty mirage
But Sin is a lot of fun, and having poisons again plus just plain better damage is why I made the switch. I stubbornly stuck to sub until like a month before 8.1.5 lol
mild prawn
and so is 90% of the playerbase
drifting cloud
better look at those overall logs where sub is dead last spoc in parses
and has 5x less than the 2nd lowest
mild prawn
pugs wont let you play sub/arcane
modest tendon
They do for me 😛 nobody cares what spec I play
gusty mirage
Yeah you’d be shocked how little people care or even bother checking lol
modest tendon
Maybe it’s because I have a mediocre -good rio?
I just get taken into any lower key I apply and sometimes I play sub 😛
gusty mirage
That’s my new thing to do now that I have to wait 3 months for 8.3 😂
modest tendon
The only people who ever notice what spec I’m playing are other rogues
jaunty crystal
by the time people notice the key has already begun.
honestly last tier this guy asked me if I was outlaw and I just said yes
came to the key as sin lmao
jaunty crystal
it was late in the week and couldn't afford another reforge
gusty mirage
It was an 11 too, that’s the wild part
jaunty crystal
if someone cares about specs/comp for an 11 I wouldn't want to run with them anyway
gusty mirage
Facts
modest tendon
Funny thing is that most non rogues who insist that you play outlaw don’t actually know why outlaw is better, they just think outlaw =good therefore assa = bad
I really need to remember to challenge someone next time this happens to me because they will probably say something really ignorant
mild prawn
no like most ppl look at the overall dmg and be like "you cant play arcane fire is better"
Whats better loyal to the end or shrouded suffocation
is shrouded suffocation even a thing anymore
cuz i have 3 SS
and only 2 NP
dark crag
For m+?
mild prawn
o so,,ed
i simmed*
current setup
kinda confused bout that blightborne tho
i could have 3 Nothing personal
dark crag
Remember to set the loyal number
mild prawn
dont have loyal anymore
dark crag
Bbi is huge
dark crag
Also that catalyst is trash
mild prawn
simmes higher than scent of blood
dark crag
Scent is trash too
dark crag
Get the raid chest
mild prawn
wich one
dark crag
That one, set loyal in sim to 4
dark crag
Yes but loyal is higher with more people in the raid using it
mild prawn
ppl gotta use it tho
dark crag
Ppl use it
dark crag
Also catalyst is a sim trap like tides
mild prawn
cuz u gotta stand in it
cloud sandal
jar
mild prawn
and yes it simmed better
cloud sandal
phial is not so good as sims says
dark crag
Take dmg relevant bosses like ashvane or zaqul, good luck with catalyst
dark crag
You have hc bis traits
mild prawn
Nice
blissful storm
as assa we want to vanish right before or after vendetta?
cobalt pelican
doing it before doesn't sound very productive does it
harsh sphinx
blissful storm
after vendetta seams more reasonable but opinions on logs I see ppl cast it before sometimes
cobalt pelican
use your noggin
if you're playing subterfuge shrouded you'll have a 24 second garrote or something and vendetta will cover all of it if you cast it beforehand
if you're playing master assassin
why would you ever vanish before vendetta
when vendetta is on global
blissful storm
talking about master assassin
harsh sphinx
link log that your talking about
mortal quest
hey, question thats often asked, im coming back from a post 8.1.5 hiatus and want to get back into the game, ive heard some people say that investing a lot of effort into getting the current essences likely isnt worth it since the 8.3 essences will be flat out better. Does that seem to be correct or do you think one still wants rank 3 on the current ones
vestal wren
you probably want to farm the rank 3 blood/life force and lucid
mild prawn
-5 mil cuz cannons on 420 rogue
cunning needle
so checked the guide and toxic blade is apparently stronk now - does this still hold true in M+ when running 2x ss?
cunning needle
haha yeah, need to get around to that. just wanted to double check since simming for m+ isn't always accurate
cheers m8
mild prawn
@modest tendon
bout that "TB is always better"
venom rush sims better for aoe
gonna play that and CN now
:3
CT*
rigid mango
TB is always better.
rigid mango
It's genuinly one if the worst talents you can pick, but sure
mild prawn
ppl say
sim yourself
so i did
and that came out so me as a not to ppl talking person will use it
(90% of the community colorized)
rigid mango
Cool, have fun then.
mild prawn
i will
rigid mango
You've also not simmed any of your traits
cobalt pelican
the sim won't be casting any mutilates with venom rush so the difference between the two is literally the dps gained by not pressing tb
which obviously you can do and then use tb on a low target count pack/a boss
'sim yourself' applies to everyone but if you don't understand how sims work you should ask for help with your results
simple meteor
he is clearly trolling
rigid mango
He's probably just salty about people telling him to sim.
But is also not simming any of his traits so idk
mild prawn
?
i am not salty
just wanted to proof the fact that "sim yourself" is the wrong answer
and btw
and what do you want with my traits
my traits are fin
dark crag
Dd in m+ yikes
dark crag
Not having an eb ss set for m+ yikes
mild prawn
bruh
u think my twink got that
i just did my +10
u comin at me with 2 sets
lulw
not that tryhard
dark crag
415 eb is better than dd
dark crag
Playing dk yikes
mild prawn
am i glad i dont main my rogue this expansion
mild prawn
sorry i dont do a +20 on my twinks
dark crag
I did a +10 with double outlaw daggers
dark crag
Now you lying, noone plays sub
mild prawn
i did
sand whale
no need for 2 sets if you don't want to. You're being given legit advice here to help you as a rogue so really just take it or leave it. I would not however try and give advice else I'll feel sorry for those people.
mild prawn
just dont want ppl to "flex on me" with stuff i dont need
or just "lulw he is playing that one trait thats not good for the content he just did"
cuz like i got done what i wanted to do
sand whale
I mean if you are just gonna m+ they are right tho, there are far better m+ traits than what you're currently running
sand whale
because you asked for advice to get more dps lol
mild prawn
When?
sand whale
anyway have a good one
mild prawn
i never said "can someone help me improve my dps"
just dont want ppl giving me advice if i dont want or need it
cuz i get if you main a rogue sure you must have good gear for what ever you do
olive edge
But why did you came here in the first place dude?
tropic ocean
Spooky JoshToday at 11:41 AM
so?
i did my +10 just fine with dd
and now imma log back on my dk
I can do m+ fine with raid traits as well
its still a bad thing to do
🤷
mild prawn
if i'd be struggling it be different
mild prawn
dont need to tell me what better if i could do what i wanted to do with what i had
distant lava
Idk why you come here if you reaction to advice is "I can do my +10 just fine"
tropic ocean
so what is your goal
mild prawn
i was just saying i did what i wanted to do with the stuff i had
sure id be faster or better if i had whats best
but why if i can do it like i just did
tropic ocean
cause maybe you forgot but you came here and asked if you should use
trinket 1 or trinket 2
which clearly sounds like seeking advice for me
🤔
tropic ocean
because no human can give you an accurate answer
distant lava
Cause that's the correct way to find out 
distant lava
And now you're being annoying about VR simming higher for some reason like
dark crag
Sims and a little bit of thinking
mild prawn
...that was a joke
with the VR
cuz u just said "just sim it 4Head whatever is best is best"
and i did but the results were wrong
dark crag
You can do a +10 with vr just fine
mild prawn
i did
tropic ocean
🤔
distant lava
Cause it sucks
fathom wyvern
What is vr short for
cobalt pelican
i explained to you why vr was showing as a gain in the sim you linked
mild prawn
vENOM RUSH
dark crag
Your sim was flawed because apl isn't using fok with dd traits
fathom wyvern
Ahh
cobalt pelican
using something like that as an example of why not to sim tb vs exsang is rather pointless
mild prawn
i dont want to know why its better/worst
cobalt pelican
..ok
tropic ocean
well a tool is only as good as its user
dark crag
I think it is better to leave this discord and return to the dks
tropic ocean
mild prawn
cya in shadowlands
dark crag
Indeed
fathom wyvern
What did i miss? Saw a massive conversation
sand whale
I guess that explains why I see so many bad DKs in this game
dark crag
Last pugs i did was in bod but they brutally kicked low dps
I wonder if thats still a thing in ep
sand whale
@fathom wyvern tldr sim your trinkets but don't just blindly rely on sim for cerftain scenarios and don't be a dick lmao I came in here I was just scratching my head why he was simming m+ with raid traits
fathom wyvern
He was m+ simming sin with dd traits?😂
dark crag
He did a +10 just fine
dark crag
Outlaw with double daggers
distant lava
Yeah i was gonna say I think I can do a 10 with only weapons and azerite on me
Makes me want to try it
dark crag
In sin gear
fathom wyvern
Are you running 1 np trait for dung tho at tyra or still 3x ss 2 eb and 1 ttk??
Havet played sin for dungs for a while
dark crag
I use 2ss 2eb 1loyal 1ttk but am a +15 pleb
fathom wyvern
I mean, i see the value of 1 loyal
Think the 3rd ss is worth more but loyal shouldnt be bad?
distant lava
U want 3 ss 1 or more eb depending on the dungeon and fill with bbi / loyal /ttk(not as good) iirc
fathom wyvern
Ahh
I dont have any ss traits since bod so Cant really play sin for dungs... only in atal for Rezan and then swap outlaw lol
severe sedge
Anyone got a good guide for queens court mythic?
tropic ocean
As a rogue or in general
rotund mural
hallow coyote
What's the general consensus on surviving Delerium Realm on M Za'Qul? Do y'all like taking Leeching Poison for it?
modest tendon
Would you really go for 3ttk if you had 9 traits?
crisp steppe
wish exsg was good 😦
modest tendon
If next raid had an op galecallers type thing it would be meta again 😛
I don’t know if I’m a fan of exsang though
It’s burst damage is insane
Opening 100k on bosses is fun tbf
crisp steppe
I get that theres still some minmaxing in setting up toxic blades. just doesn't feel that fulfilling
modest tendon
It works with the playstyle perfectly though
Like in m+ on small packs Tb envenoms do more damage than fok spam
strange python
I mean I am by no mean an expert but pretty sure FoK spam is always followed by either Rupture or Envenom
modest tendon
Depends on pack size and what you want to accomplish
Like you will always have to weave in ruptures to replace garrotes
unborn silo
Does anyone know if there is a command for a Macro to use a Specific skill on a Specific friendly target without the need to put it in target first?.. sound weird i know.. for example my Tanks name would be "XY"- /cast Shadowstep on "XY" is there a way to set a Macro like this?
modest tendon
And if a priority target is in the the pack you will want to envenom pump anyway
strange python
I think the way macro for tricks can be used for that too perhaps
modest tendon
But you rarely pull large enough packs to mongo fok outside of the bote window
I’m making the differentiation between mongo fok and fok to 4-5 cp then dump
strange python
So yea no spamming FoK
I just read the previous sentence as fok spam is gucci or soemethnig along the line
Currently doing 16s and 17s, its not really required for me to swap around traits because tanks are still getting situated to their pull size
fervent jasper
@unborn silo make a focus macro and set the tank as focus
brave vector
Can someone point me in the direction of fuu's custom script for dungeon sin
Nvm found it
bright tusk
can someone recommend a nice addon for battletext? If you are using any, I feel the default way is kind obscuring everything else
rigid mango
#wow-general but mik's scrolling battle text is pretty dope
bright tusk
aight, sorry.
I'll check that out, generally I feel like, do I even need this information cluttering the screen? I get my dps etc from "details!" O.o
tropic ocean
Not necessarily, no
honest basin
Hey !
I have a question when it comes to raiding. I do not have access to Za'qul mythic helm so I cannot have the ideal 3x DD 1x Blightborne 1x TTK 1x NP even though i have the rest of the set.
Currently I play with 3x DD, 2x TTK and 1x Blightborne. I would swap the Blightborne out for a NP, which would lead me to 3x DD, 1x NP, 2x TTK. I think I could take a DD out of my build and tweak my traits so I'd have NP, Blightborne but would lose a DD.
What is best ? Is NP so important that having one in any of the builds I mentionned is better than keeping my 3x DD 1x Blightborne 2x TTK build ? I don't see how it would beat a DD to be fair, but I noticed that close to all top end parses had one NP, and not necessarily 3 DD.
scarlet sequoia
sim bro
sweet inlet
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
honest basin
Really ?
shut garnet
zaq helm, goraks and blackwater
honest basin
I see as many people with 2 than with 3 when I look at good runs
honest basin
Alright alright
shut garnet
simming is best but imo 1np is good to have
if not a must
and if youre only cutting 1dd for it
it should be worth
sweet inlet
Anyone have a link to where i can get the Azerite Power Weights import strings for M+ assassination essences?
shut garnet
but sim sim sim
sweet inlet
or azerite forge, i dont care which one i use i just want a way of knowing which is strongest in game
nimble mesa
Hey guys, if I wanna focus on ST damage (boss damage essentially), and adds are around, how many reupture/garrot should I setup before going back to spamming envenom on main target?
(If I'm asking a stupid question that makes no sense please let me know :D)
strange python
wait =/ raid has no 3 ss builds? i am confused thought double dose is worthless 😦
polar cape
Worthless in keys bis in raid
strange python
gg have to resim everything
polar cape
SS could be a thing if you kill boss sub 2min
prisma valve
@nimble mesa garrote on as many as you can without dropping it on main target, depending on how much damage you need on the adds/main target, add ruptures accordingly
rigid mango
SS is great for cleave fights but no fight is good enough, it's also great for very short fights, 3 SS exsang sims the best if you're killing really fast, a la @arctic walrus and @scarlet sequoia .
strange python
if i put 2 poisons instead of 1, do i get less proc?
rigid mango
Huh?
strange python
does deadly poison proc less if u have crippling on?
rigid mango
Why would it? 
strange python
just checking
quasi halo
Do we open with garrote or mutilate?
I thought it was garrote but raidbots is saying mult
rigid mango
Mut
rigid mango
mut rup mut gar if first mut is 4 cp
mut mut rup gar mut if it isn't
shut garnet
or mut mut g rup
alpine dirge
Out/assa which one is more flexible due to m+ and raid?
shut garnet
though if played properly outlaw doesnt seem to be that far behind sin in raids
at least comparing logs
i think
rigid mango
Oh no no no 
Sin is closer in m+ to outlaw than outlaw is to sin in raids if you're talking minmaxing
Outlaw is better for cleave fights ofc, but in general prog sin is just mega broke
prisma valve
sin is arguably just as good as outlaw in some dungeons
rigid mango
Doesn't have to do insane log wise later in the tier when all you do is pad for logs though.
It's better than the second outlaw slot quite often yeah, but I think first outlaw has higher prio in a vast majority of m+ situations.
That being said you can make both work wherever.
shut garnet
yeah, pretty much
but IMO theyre close enough together so if you're an exceptional outlaw player you shouldnt need to switch to assa for raids
just to be mediocre
prisma valve
don't think sin is so hard that you will perform mediocre
alpine dirge
So t appears it like assa is performing better for raid but is really good in m+ also outlaw is king of m+ but not clearly good for raids. But assa is better in m+ than outlaw in raids?