its just the inherent ttk-strength for prio
#assassination
marble hemlock
vestal wren
yes
well unless the balance changes with further apl tweaks as this is the standard apl with prio rotation
i cant remember exactly what we changed
(just talking about the diffrence between ma/no ma/ss)
marble hemlock
love me some blood of the enemy openers with 50% basecrit
lethal heart
marble hemlock
im gonna knock your teeth out
fading stag
wanting to try some M+, what's the best trait set up? I have 2 eb 1 ttk and 1 ss so far
hidden bay
haste/vers 
sour wraith
can you font in stealth?
rigid mango
You can, but it'll break it.
sour wraith
Ok so pull would be something like font -> stealth/pot ->opener then?
sour wraith
Cool, ty
placid dawn
can i evasion the tentacles on zaqul?
rancid bobcat
no
devout thicket
Hi, what is the correct way to sim for za'qul? To me the proc damage belt sims higher than the aberration belt, which seems weird. I have both, but I haven't upgraded the aberration one yet and I'm not sure if I should be spending pearls on it instead of upgrading the other one to 425.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gXEBhGqmVJSiEn8QQmbphg
rigid mango
You don't sim for zaq really
Also, hectic add cleave is horrible and should really never be used
Just use VoP minor if you're doing echos, and drop some haste if you're going delirium relativly often
devout thicket
I most likely will be going for echo, but we plan to kill zaqul before 2nd split, so no VoP needed in that situation I guess.
but since we will be extending after zaqul and he will most likely die this week, then i guess there is no need to upgrade the aberration belt
rigid mango
I'd still upgrade it for the sake of reclears etc if your benthic's fine
I still used VoP even though we kill before 2nd split on our recent reclears because it aligns better for me
devout thicket
so would you just ignore the sims and assume the aberration will be better?
rigid mango
If it's decent ilvl yeah
devout thicket
the other belt did ~~130k dmg on the best pull so most likely yeah
rigid mango
I mean, what's the %
if it's under 2%, then it'd be worse aslong as your abb belt isn't super far off
devout thicket
and on worse pulls it did way more, so just rng i guess
rigid mango
Yah but it's also just damage to the adds
quaint storm
Hi ... quick question as I'm new to assassination ... do you macro Vanish and vendetta together? or is it better to keep them seperate?
arctic walrus
If you did macro it with anything, vendetta isn’t even the right spell
quaint storm
Thanks ... i'll do some more digging
arctic walrus
Read the guide for your opening sequence. And no, don’t pair it with anything
quaint storm
I got my info from the Ravenholdt site guide where on cool downs it stated vanish paired with vendetta so I assumed that they could be macro'd together
steep obsidian
vanish paired with vendetta just means you use vanish during vendetta not macroed together
if you were gonna macro anything together maybe it would be vanish + envenom used when you have enough cp but i never felt a need to do that
graceful mirage
I just have my finishers on the stealth bar for that purpose. Macroing vanish into stuff tends to be kinda inconvenient
wide oracle
What kind of setup do I need for assasination to compete with Combat for Orgozoa Mythic?
if its even possible
rigid mango
You can massivly out damage them with that setup, but it's not good for prog
steep obsidian
check the setup of the top parses for sin on warcraft logs
but you only need aoe damage if they aren't dying efficiently before the next set sin will be top tier on boss damage if you built it just for single target
just gotta ignore the meters if you do that though 😛
sharp viper
you are fucking your raid if you want to pad damage on the orgozoa adds if your group lacks boss damage... if you are going sin on orgozoa progression, boss damage should be your priority. you will be bottom of your details but you will still be top damage on the boss
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
hasty hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
strange python
I see a lot of the top sin logs commonly going for a 2xdd,bi, np & ttf, mostly using the blackwater vest for the latter, but simming against my current 3xdd 2 x np with Spymasters wrap for the latter I would lose over 1K dps , am i missing something obvious? or do what you guys always say, and trust the sim?
arctic walrus
You don't have # of loyal members enabled in your sim
strange python
ah, you are correct sir, i didnt put that trait as one of the important ones to consider (casual raider), i see simming it now with 1 other with trait makes equality. probably best to leave this vest in the drawer for the experts then 😉 thanks
fiery sleet
hey swirling sands or scent of blood for m+?
arctic walrus
swirling
fiery sleet
is scent of blood that bad? I've seen a rogue use it 3x and he popped off with it
tropic ocean
@fiery sleet in m+ or orgozoa? 😛
fiery sleet
m+ :D
tropic ocean
maybe he was just generally good then
fiery sleet
maybe
rocky ruin
for orgoza are we going for cleave as assa or not?
drifting cloud
depends on your raid comp
rocky ruin
my grp just asked me if i can too cleave as assa cause outlaw is kinda not my thing
rigid mango
It's all in #tc-updates
simple gulch
Thanks
unreal sail
whats the best way to sim assa for m+?
chilly marsh
errant shadow
quick question. new gear on 8.3 will be better than benthic?
rigid mango
Have you read what it says on the benthic pieces?
errant shadow
im not playing for a month or more, so i have not.
eager haven
Benthic is for naz/EP only
errant shadow
fair point
rigid mango
That'll do it.
errant shadow
hope they will not give another stupid gearing stuff
nova anvil
Ion admitted that benthic was a mistake but that people were already grinding them so they didnt roll them back
rigid mango
hazy geyser
so we finally killed zaqul and started prog on azshara yesterday. what essences are people running? i've seen people run blood lucid strife i haven't grinded for strife r3 at all because it doesnt sim as high as focusing minor for me. is strife that important on azshara?
drifting cloud
its not, iris is fine
strife is just better in p3 because of all the target swapping
hoary apex
when should I go 3ss or 3eb for M+? I currently run 2/2/2 with ttk, but now I have more flexibility with azerites. Is it ever worth dropping the TTKs?
rigid mango
Yes, ttk isn't amazing this season, 3 ss is for sure better, a 3rd eb isn't necessarily bad either, just some boss damage/prio lost for bigger aoe gains.
vast forum
also depends on how long the pull lasts tbh
on tyrannical, SS >>>>> EB
cuz it's the best vs worst ST trait 😛
vital walrus
bote rank 2 is good enough as a major or do i need rank 3?
cobalt pelican
3 only
gray condor
rank 3 is quite easy to get
vital walrus
is it?
gray condor
they put it down to 30k
vital walrus
30k honor is kinda a lot
gray condor
it was 50k before
vital walrus
yeah but its still 30k
ah alright well i guess i'll farm it
but for the time being i can run iris and bote r2 as a minor ig?
gray condor
most likely better than r2 for m+
drifting cloud
they nerfed other stuff when they reduced the requirement
30k now is almost the same as 50k was before
sage mirage
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
lilac idol
hey guys, is it ok to wear a sword in the offhand?
like u can wear a dagger in offhand for outlaw
rough agate
no mutilate requires a dagger in each hand
timber meadow
a guildmate is switching to rogue so we have another vendetta for a 2nd add in p3 of azshara. He doesn't have r3 bote and i told him without r3 bote to just go clf
is that fair?
or is bote r2 good enough to run instead of clf still
arctic walrus
You never run bote if it's not r3
hasty fiber
^
timber meadow
okay that's what i figured but i didn't wanna be tellin him somethin crzy
arctic walrus
If my memory serves me correct, clf will actually line up nicely for Serena
arctic tinsel
do we have a set of ideal azerite traits we aim for in a raid encounter?
lilac idol
well, 3 double dose+blightborne+twist the knife+nothing personal
that's what I use
thats from wowhead as well
modest tendon
Loyal to the end if other people in your raid use it
Swirling sands can work as well
runic terrace
Hey guys, quick question for M Queen's Court: How do I sim the fight (Patchwerk, light movement etc.)? And which traits are BiS? There are plenty of alternatives in the logs, although Rupture seems rather good.
Do you guys dot both mobs and therefore run around or keep STing one?
modest tendon
You can’t sim for it, jump between the bosses using shadowstep on cooldown
runic terrace
So just sim Patchwerk for best results?
modest tendon
Patchwerk 2 bosses is a cleave fight, you can’t cleave the 2 court bosses because they are separate
runic terrace
Okay, so I'll just use my normal single target equipment. Thank you PayDay, your help is much appreciated
hasty hamlet
Unless you are SP then you cleave everything
modest tendon
Ye but their getting nerfed again so it’s fine
storm drift
As assa rog how should i open in pvp??
uneven aspen
Do you want to Vanish -> TB -> Envenom or TB -> Vanish -> Envenom?
rigid mango
The latter
uneven aspen
Last time I checked the top parse for the first boss atm uses the first one - any ideas why he does that?
uneven aspen
Hmm okay, thank you
dark crag
Killtimers and crit luck weight far more than tb usage in opener
oblique pendant
is benthic gear really that good for mythic EP?
rigid mango
Yes
oblique pendant
so should I coinflip until proper stats + socket procs?
oblique pendant
is there any list of effects from best to worst?
ok its in pinned section 😄
sorry just found that
vast forum
they're evolving 😮
vital walrus
so is mutilate mutilate garrote rupture ok as an opener
distant lava
no
neat remnant
If you are using MA you want to mutilate (pray you get 4) rupture, mutilate
distant lava
or mutilate mutilate rupture if you don't crit
neat remnant
Yup
distant lava
but you never mutilate mutilate garrote rupture no
vital walrus
hm i see
rigid mango
mut mut rup gar mut
mut rup mut gar
First one is no 4 cp crit on first
2nd is you crit 4cp on first
vital walrus
i see
i was gonna ask too, if i have 5 combo points already is it worth using toxic blade to get a better evenom or no?
modest tendon
Yes
rigid mango
You use TB regardless of CP
vital walrus
o so i can use it at like 2-3?
i see that's helpful, i thought i had to be in the 4-5 ranger
modest tendon
Shouldn’t you try to set up tb anyway?
rigid mango
You do.
scarlet sequoia
you definitely dont zine
rigid mango
You do
modest tendon
Like pool energy
rigid mango
You should
scarlet sequoia
ok whatever, try to plan ahead and dont be completely trash with it
rigid mango
That's what the sim says
rigid mango
Doing it repeatidly means you might miss a cast
Ofc. Maybe it doesn't matter in the end
scarlet sequoia
i mean sure u do u
rigid mango
But as a whole, using TB on cd regardless of energy and/or cp
Has been the highest simming way
arctic walrus
You should never be in such a situation though. Because if you're at 0 cp/energy, then that means you just used a finisher, when you could've waitied like a second and tb'ed. so it's user error to be in such a spot
rigid mango
Yeah exactly
distant lava
do you really run into timing when you have 0 cp and 0 energy with TB up
distant lava
like ever
rigid mango
LIke, none, even
arctic walrus
that would never happen yeah
rigid mango
There shouldn't be a situation where tha happens unless you've fucked up your rotation
Doesn't mean it's less correct though.
shrewd night
So what you are saying is; It wont happen if you play well. But usually the reason for people coming here, is that they dont. So might make it clear going forwards 
rigid mango
Even then, it's always been to use it on cd
arctic walrus
Who is this voice of reason 
rigid mango
So even if you blow ass and do that, you should still be using TB there
Mind you, pool for 3 sec once, never miss a cast is fine
But will players fucking up assassination rogue rotation actually understand that?
Doubt it.
So TB on CD it is.
shrewd night
rigid mango
Entirely understandable.
arctic socket
That sad moment when a 415 razor coral sims better than a 440 gale/tiny
young portal
trinkets for m+, what else should I be using or aiming for to go with deadeye? Currently have 455 inkpod, 445 coral, 445 phial and 430 font
rigid mango
Coral works good for tyr weeks
inkpod is fine afaik damage wise, but I've not tested it enough
font is dope with organized pulls and stuff like dice always works as it's just there
arctic socket
For m+ I find phial and ink pod works nicely but I normally work ink pod and font
Big pulls with font shreds lol
rigid mango
I wouldn't use phial.
arctic socket
I sorta agree but it’s been averaging 2m+ damage runs so I mean it’s been nice
young portal
I was thinking of giving font a try but I pug mostly so organised ain't really a thing, unless I should try channelling it towards the end of a pack? I dunno
rigid mango
I've tried it in pugs
Just feels very lackluster and fucks you a lot
People who fuck you over on bosses etc
It's really aids
young portal
Aye that's what I'm thinking, like channelling that and trying to get a re-stealth sounds like a shit deal
arctic socket
I wouldn’t use font in pugs (bad experiences)
young portal
will just run the inkpod then until a decent dice comes about, tyty
bleak spoke
something you can do is you can do your 4 bleeds and then font
sometimes i've found myself doing that cuz we can't wait to pull really and i can't hang back and come in later cuz the silence needs to come out
pretty hard to use though, i recommend spyglass/dice or 2 minute trinkets to pair with vendetta or even cyclotronic for some targetted burst
neon tendon
i just want to throw a question in here to the topic with tb, do you guys hold on to tb in the 14 sec time window after font for using it with vendetta or use it always on cd
rigid mango
You can use TB, be done with it and then font and get it up for the window again
kind geyser
what bentic should i farm 1st
rigid mango
feet > wrists > hands > waist dps wise
kind geyser
ty
rigid mango
Waist > hands > feet > wrists or something like that, if you want RNG on your side
vital walrus
gearing up with benthic on alts is a pain
rigid mango
It really is
But I wouldn't even do it at this point unless you're seriously progressing on the char
vital walrus
yeah i got lucky with the boots and belt with like 3 tries each but i'm not gonna farm pearls
got burnt out on my main i'm not doing that again
shy axle
when using bote major in m+, do i always spam fok due to Eb or do i just do the normal rotation with env until 6/7 targets ?
right after using bote
rigid mango
Not sure what the exact breakpoint is, but if it's probably safe to mongo fok after bote 5-6+t
strange python
I like BotE. Only use BotE ever since o got rank3.
Is inkpod really good?
!trinkets
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
quartz dew
do we still take vision minor for zaq and if so, what's the play with vanish with it not syncing with vend
rigid mango
You use it if you're killing echos
quartz dew
yea I will be
quartz dew
aye I know why we want to take it, I just don't know what the best way to use vanish is in that case. Just delay it?
rigid mango
You save vanish for 2nd one
arctic walrus
You vanish the first. And you don’t vanish the second
quartz dew
hokay, cheers
rigid mango
You can use it before 1st, but just save to 2nd
I always found first one dying super fast but 2nd one always being riskier
with people dying and such
strange python
For ST, with 2xSS . Is the rotation still stealth garrote garrote rupture?
strange python
So I have been doing it wrong in raids. The whole time.
strange python
I prob got used to doing keys. Garrote continuously til it dropped subterfuge
Wowanalyzer don’t recognize that as an error tho
strange python
Oh no it isn’t updated
I just go look at it once in a while to see how much I did bad
rigid mango
If you need help with logs there's a lot of people me included who are here to help
strange python
I soemtimes don’t even know what questions to ask other than th rotation
rigid mango
I know where to look so
If you need help just post them here or w/ever and someone will
strange python
I’m right now looking for a log
Sadly on phone so things are hard to navigate
Hello guys is 40k on some bosses with that Gear ok? Sadly i havent one Benthic with socket.
arctic walrus
Would be cool if we could actually see what you’re talking about
strange python
on Mythic Bosses i was around 38-40k on that bosses.
rigid mango
We don't know what gear nor what bosses you're talking about
strange python
oh i forgot to link: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aKcZLEuMVW72G7cdh4grad
vast forum
40k with a 42k sim is in the "not bad" range
strange python
thank for your help @tropic ocean
viscid onyx
What essence u guys use in m+ with 3xSS and 3xEB?
rigid mango
blood + lucid strife
viscid onyx
Blood in major? And rest in minor?
scarlet sequoia
no all of them in major
viscid onyx
Funny Guy here
tropic ocean
Blood major rest minor y
Use blood after 3x garrote and 1x rupture then just fok in pack
viscid onyx
Thanks mate
desert pelican
how important is meld for m+ dps? how often u get in situation when u meld but cant invis cos of insta combat through any aoe or something? mostly question to 20+ keys pushers 😉
rigid mango
As a rogue or in gneeral?
desert pelican
fo assa only, im push 20+ by myself, so the power of meld is something i know 😉 just tired of nelfs and belfs everywhere
rigid mango
It's really big
tropic ocean
you may have noticed that some of the top players frequently trans to alliance
for m+
and back for raid
desert pelican
hm 😉 is it really not very hard to meld + invis in the middle of the pull?
rigid mango
Meta build is 3 ss, the value you get from essentially having 6 of the empowered every pull nearly
it's not hard at all
desert pelican
thx u )
rotund mural
best minor essences for fortified 15? (TD)
tropic ocean
idk maybe iris or crucible or whatever
tropic ocean
but maybe even rank 1 worth it
its less duration but still 5 stacks
idk
should just try it and play what feels better for u
fervent jasper
For me at least r3 iris minor simmed higher than r2 conflict
tropic ocean
simmed on what
tropic ocean
😂
rigid mango
It's really bad though
It gives shitty advice and you shouldn't follow it
Like per say, valuing haste
Even though it's bad.
fervent jasper
I just assumed it simmed higher because it only has 100% up time when targeting the same target which is often the case on boss fights. So I thought maybe it was the best value short of r3 CoS because of the constant extra haste for the bosses
But yeah I'm not taking that sim as gospel or anything just pointing out what it said for me and why i thought it might have said that
rigid mango
I'm just saying that simming dslice, and picking iris over strife is just
Really really bad advice
fervent jasper
At re strife simmed higher
fervent jasper
R3*
bright tusk
silly queston, is it dps gain to put a full rupture on zoatroids before they die on orgozoa?
bright tusk
I fooled myself into thinking that it's good to put a full rupture on an add with 5-10% since I get energy back, so I should only put bleeds up when they spawn then since they die slower than 30sec
coarse notch
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
vast forum
iirc, if you're low on energy and TB is coming back off cd, it's worth rupturing an add to fill your energy before the TB
west loom
ember rover
My personal experience on Orgo is that I still do 4-5 CP rupture on 30% adds.
Below that and it's not worth it.
Again, this is personal experience.
But it works out pretty well.
visual quartz
I like going over when they spawn get maybe 3cp+ ruptures on them all and then straight back to boss for st...the extra energy feels nice and always feels like a dmg increase
bitter trellis
twist the knife or scent of blood?
worn basin
Ttk should beat scent
bitter trellis
triple ttk, 1 shrouded, 1 nothing personal and 1 double dose sound ok for traits? wish that double dose was a battlefield precision
unborn otter
Been running 3 SS, 1 Echoing, 1 Nothing Personal, and 1 Blightborne infusion for M+.
I can also run 3 echoing, 1 Shrouded, 1 ttk, and 1 Scent of Blood.
Which do yall think would be better for fortified weeks?
proven talon
imagine not running 3EB for m+
tough dome
just got a socketed 430 cannonball runner? Anyone like that thing? I usually run 430 socket inkpod and 430 dice for m+.. seems kinda weird when you account for stuff moving around
I’ve been enjoying 3ss 2eb 1ttk for m+
honest vessel
Nah cannonball is p cheeks
And 3x eb is usually overkill
3 ttk 2 eb 1 shrouded is p good, but you can def get away with any combo of those
Np for singletarget heavy dungeons/tyr
Imo
rigid mango
Wouldn't recommend 3 ttk anywhere
And wouldn't recommend only one SS
3 eb is arguable, but is the best for overall output and is really potent in a lot of scenarios
hasty fiber
3TTK only for like maybe pvp
deft tangle
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
inner sonnet
I play assass for all content, have ditched OL in M+
M+ i have 3x SS 1x EB 1x TtK and I want to get another EB when I can
@bitter trellis your traits sound good... for #pvp - I assume that's what they're for cus you mentioned battlefield precision
rigid mango
Nah they woulda been really good in season 2 but very lackluster in s3
crisp hollow
Seli has been running 3 SS, 1 EB
prisma valve
Hey, very new to rogue, was mostly leveling one up for playing outlaw on orgonzoa and doing m+, but assassin is always interesting to me, I like the fantasy and they put out the numbers.
So I was wondering, hitting a dummy a bit, it feels awfully simple, is it really as simple as keep Garrote and Rapture, TB on CD, mut as main generator, envenom as spender if rupture is already up? It feels awfully simple
distant lava
it is
shrewd night
Assassination is incredibly simple at its base, there are some nuance to it in actual encounters, but nothing too big to make it step out of the light of being simplistic.
finite vortex
what essences are you guys running for m+?
young portal
Blood Major, Lucid + Strife minors
thick viper
Hi guys, I've been raiding with my sin rogue in EP for quite abit. Not parsing too well on damage. Have a question which concerns maintaining dmg outside of our burst window. What are our priorities? I know first and foremost is 100% uptime on both dots. What is our second priority? Do we try to maintain Elaborate Planning buff or Envenom Buff ? Or is it to Pool energy for Toxic Blade window? Which one yields more dps? Thanks for your help guys. 🙂
tropic ocean
keep dots up, always be attacking boss dont overcap energy
can use envenom/ruptures to extend elaborte planning on as late as possible but its a very minor increase and I wouldn't bother about it
(yes its literally that simple)
thick viper
so im overly thinking? just dont overcap. and maintain dots and then EP?
dark crag
Maintain bleeds, pool between envs, watch tb and prepare for it, ep uptime comes together with all this stuff
Like casting env at 40 energy for the sake of ep is not good
Outside tb window
Build, pool, finish, build, pool
= more muts under ep/env. More dd procs
Ep uptime alone is nothing, doing stuff while ep is up is the deal
arctic tinsel
Dumb question but does envenom stack?
thick viper
Okay. So 1) Maintain both dots 2) Pool to TB and spam mul and envenom during TB window 3) Envenom before capping on resource?
arctic tinsel
If I cast it twice in a row
thick viper
the buff doesnt stack i think
Does envenom benefit from the EP that procced due to your envenom?
arctic tinsel
So why do we fit multiple envenoms in our toxic blade window?
thick viper
Coz we get empowered envenoms within toxic blade window
arctic tinsel
But it doesn’t stack?
thick viper
It doesn’t stack
arctic tinsel
I get 3 envenoms per window at my current haste. Am I just overwriting the dot?
I’m confused.
storm drift
wdym
tropic ocean
during tb window it doest matter
thick viper
Envenom is instant poison dmg with a personal buff . Not a dot.
tropic ocean
to overwrite envenom buff
storm drift
whats tb?
tropic ocean
toxic blade
storm drift
ah
arctic tinsel
I main disc priest and resto Druid but this is my pet project and it’s coming along pretty well but I’m so confused about the tb window
storm drift
its like 6 sec?
tropic ocean
get 2x4cp+ envenom into every tb window
arctic tinsel
Why doesn’t it matter?
tropic ocean
because the dmg gain during tb of envenom is superior to clipping the buff
storm drift
add that up with a vendetta and a kidney
tropic ocean
you dont use kidney ever on bosses
arctic tinsel
So recasting envenom is just refreshing the dot?
arctic tinsel
I thought it was X over 6 seconds for a 5 point one
tropic ocean
nope
envenom does flat dmg and gives u a buff that increases your poison application chance
tropic ocean
envenom is also your hardest hitting ability so you want to get as much as possible into the toxic blade buff
"dealing instant nature damage"
there you go
the 6 seconds is the buff duration
arctic tinsel
Ok got it. I usually get 3 🙂
I’m exhausted and also blonde lol
Was just reading stuff and did a real serious confuse
tropic ocean
no worries mate
its a pretty straight forward and simple class
when you're good at disc rogue will be easy for you
thick viper
Question! If 1 dot is falling off and your TB is ready. Refresh dot with 4-5 CP? Or Refresh dot with 1-3 CP ? Or do the TB window?
Or do the TB window and refresh the dot inside ?
arctic tinsel
Yeah everything feels easy after kitty weaving m+ and disc raid healing
:p
From what I’ve read, you’re safe to refresh with any amount, only the smoothness of play will suffer
Yeah I found it gummy
distant lava
is that icy veins ?
dark crag
Use wowhead guide instead of icyveins
tropic ocean
u usually always refresh with 4cp
sometimes u'll put a 3 cp on to not let it drop but thats rare
thick viper
I feel that there are cases u have to inject a 3cp rupture in order not to delay TB too much.
naive trellis
Can some1 tell.me how to use fan of knives properly on mythic orgozoa prog please n ty
Im only doin 50-60kish (blue logs) for my ilvl
naive trellis
Rofl
modest tendon
The aberration belt is the easiest to get
naive trellis
They really make that much a difference ?
Ive got 20 belts no socket
Ive givin up
On farming
modest tendon
I don’t rate assa on orgazoa anyway :S
Ye, you really need to do it with as many characters as you can
It sucks
I know
naive trellis
Yeah im thinkin of ct
tropic ocean
3x sob 3x eb seems to be working best
tropic ocean
yeah just dot 4x rupture and spam eb
naive trellis
I guess it must be my benthics holding my damage back
tropic ocean
and use bote when fresh adds spawn
and yeah benthic is big 2% dmg belt 3% dmg boots
naive trellis
Bote ?
tropic ocean
blood of the enemy
naive trellis
Havent farmed the mecha rep for it /:
I quit for 8 months
So im late to this tier
tropic ocean
its pvp essence not mecha
naive trellis
Oh
young portal
Blood of the enemy is PvP
naive trellis
Is it worth taking rank 1 ?
tropic ocean
nope
naive trellis
Kk cool ty for info lads
glacial flare
think its 30k now
young portal
A lot of assa rogues have the attitude of "just kill and move on" because it's just such a shit boss, by far the worst in the tier
tropic ocean
r3 is the biggie with crit dmg
inner sonnet
@arctic tinsel I'm late to the party, but to clarify - Toxic Blade gives you a 9s window to deal 30% increased NATURE damage. Posions, envenom and double dose procs are ALL nature damage. Envenom's effect after use for 1s per combo point to have a higher posion application rate increases the poisons going on the target and therefore is essential while in your TB window. Its buff doesn't stack, but it does deal 10% increased damage if you use it a second time in your 4s Elaborate Planning window.
TL;DR toxic blade is more of a spam window than a save window, not as intensely as vendetta, but you want to be using more resources instead of saving them
tropic moon
hey fellow rogues, was wondering lately has any of you played with the spellque window cvar since bfa lunched?
back in legion it was changed in 7.2 i think, back then I switched the default 400 to my latency+ 100...
Just curios if it still behaves as it did in legion.
400 feels a bit off, but might be placebo
crisp steppe
what do you think the spellqueue window is @tropic moon
it still behaves like in legion btw
worldly iron
tropic moon
@crisp steppe
Thanks!
http://thedefiantguild.com/forums/discussion/15431
this is the best I've found explaining it properly
oh my bad 😉
arctic socket
Is rank 2 of condense life force worth taking over rank one lucid dreams?
(I don’t know how to sim this is why I’m asking)
rigid mango
I'd recommend learning how to sim if that's the case
arctic socket
True
rigid mango
Get the addon simulationcraft, type /simc, copy paste that wall of text and paste it into the box https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
Then you can pick and choose diff combinations of your current gear to optimise which pieces, talents, traits, gems, essences, enchants etc
If you have any question do ask in #wow-general or ping me/dm
distant lava
what ?
graceful mirage
delete myself
hushed maple
I am playing rogue as a main class
and I simply cant stand the fact, that I have so much downtime(it probably isnt much but I hate it, when I cant use abilities for a moment)
graceful mirage
try playing outlaw then
distant lava
and what do you expect from us then ?
hushed maple
Is there a way to fix the downtime?
wide oracle
Go play fury warrior or something then
rigid mango
If you want to spam buttons you play fury/dh, they both want you pressing something every GCD.
bronze summit
is assassination viable for high m+? or is outlaw the only way to go?
rigid mango
Assa is more than fine
graceful mirage
assa is quite good in m+
bronze summit
i really wanna get back to rogue as an alt but i cant stand outlaw 😦
rigid mango
If assa fits your playstyle, it's more than fine
graceful mirage
alt
main or no balls tbh
bronze summit
guild doesnt need more rogues.. nor am i allowed to reroll xD
bronze summit
good news for me then xD
arctic walrus
Sin is practically = to outlaw though?? Unless that’s a metric not at high keys and I’m mistaken
cedar kernel
modest tendon
1 less stun is big
rigid mango
not in every way.
harsh anchor
The only thing missing is gouge. Playing with traits with EB SS and TTK is the only Problem you’re going to have week to week.
rigid mango
You're not "only missing gouge"
harsh anchor
K
rigid mango
Saying tha is delusional
Outlaw gains on aoe for getting mroe st through traits
Their damage profile is ideal for m+
They bring lower cd utility
Yes, assa is good
But outlaw is outlaw, and it's better atm.
Assa can do better numbers but loses out elswhere
Apart from say, KR. Sin is better there for sure.
modest tendon
It’s not a given that assa does better numbers though, outlaw is still very competitive, assa can specialise into different types of damage though like more aoe or more prio better than outlaw
People do tend to be building assa as the aoe carry now though
rigid mango
Nah 3 ss eb
modest tendon
As it’s strongest traits are ss and eb
modest tendon
I tend to do about the same across both specs, my outlaw gear is slightly better though :S
Maybe 1 day I’ll get 3ss 3eb at 445
rigid mango
Saying sin is worse in every way is wrong
saying sin is worse thank to not having gouge is wrong
Saying sin is at a slight loss to outlaw in general m+, is correct.
vestal wren
sin is worse than outlaw in m+
reason is simple, outlaw has the luxury to have lower trade offs
still does not make assassination a bad pick
vital walrus
what azerite piece should i go for first from vendor?
rigid mango
You can sim what's the best for you in droptimizer
vital walrus
is there any like bis from the vendor and the other are from the raid?
like for spriest 2 bis are from the raid and u only need shoulders from azerite vendor
arctic walrus
Zaq hem, goraks, blackwater is your bis
There are supplemental, identical items you can get from pvp but you need the high rating obviously
vital walrus
i see thank you
tropic ocean
sin is worse then outlaw ???????????
royal lantern
vestal wren
only in m+
mystic dragon
Cephalohide Jacket is better than blackwater if you don’t have raid members with loyal to the end
Switches loyal for double dose
bitter trellis
Ew assassins pveing?!
cobalt pelican
ew
tropic ocean
changing guild is better if you dont have members with loyal to the end too
ornate gazelle
Does Condensed Life Force major benefit from Vendetta? So is it worth it to delay the 10 seconds or so for Vendetta when running SS and Subterfuge?
graceful mirage
is anoyne else getting their deadly poison reset every time they enter the event content?
arctic walrus
Clf doesn’t benefit from vendetta, but vendetta does benefit from clf
If you can line them up, without missing a cast, then you should
gusty mirage
@graceful mirage yeah its happened to me, I think it's clearing the buff like it would for arena
gusty mirage
yeah I noticed that too lol
bright tusk
Quick question,
F.E.A.S.T or Crit food? (mech dowels)
harsh sphinx
compare them
latent gazelle
Sim
pearl pagoda
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
pearl pagoda
are there any other weakaura groups for rogues?
or lesser known ones?
ive never seen any other setups besides these
arctic walrus
You can just look them up on the website?
pearl pagoda
then what point would i come to this discord if not to inquire about any lesser known WAs that people use
tropic ocean
well these are the most used ones
and many ppl just use their own individual ones
u can see all public available weak auras on the website
modest tendon
After the Outlaw iris vs Bote discussions, does anybody think anything will change for assa?
iris minor is dogshit in aoe
but is a better minor overall
than botes minor
arctic walrus
I mean, yeah? Nobody's ever advocated for blood minor here
rigid mango
Blood minor's pretty ok
Enables you to run 4 bleeds instead of 6
5*
Sin doesn't have downtime like outlaw does in m+
You can find places to use it for sure, but blood is 1 gcd and then pop off
Idk why the outlaw convo would impact the sin convo
rigid mango
huh?
halcyon roost
For outlaw sure, but not sin
drifting cloud
I saw seli and morningwind run it
rigid mango
Free vers, you desync your vend from vanish all the time in m+
Didn't know anyone was running it
brave vector
Is it worth to mongo FoK after your opener in m+ with only one EB? Or is there a target count per eb trait where that becomes optimal?
rigid mango
6-8-10 3-2-1 eb
brave vector
Ah, so unless I have 10 targets just keep ruptures up and envenom into priority?
rigid mango
According to sims that was the case
strange python
One question to coral? 1.Pull apply coral using CDs etc doing prio and using my 2nd USE of Coral for the 2nd Coral? So i dont use it between the window?
arctic walrus
You would obviously reapply it 20s after using it
strange python
So im using it on CD? Except Vendetta has less then 20 sec? @arctic walrus
lean path
Any idea why raid io doesnt work on my rogue, but shows on my warrior?
rigid mango
thin stream
Any tips for assass rogue in 2v2 arena? Trying to learn it but confusing tbh
winged storm
Dumb question but I really dont know, can you stack azerite power? Like double dose
meager nebula
yes
damage effects and some stat effects stack
% based effects generally do not benefit from stacking traits
winged storm
Alrighty, thank you
arctic walrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lilac idol
master assassin sims a bit higher for me, so should I use it in raids? or keep subterfuge
crude gate
So the wow ask for help channel isn’t helping me out and I can’t find it on wowhead so I gotta try here since it’s the class I’m playing
arctic walrus
Are you running any SS traits
crude gate
I finally got my leatherworking to 175 and I completed the naz main quest but I can’t buy Abyssal Shards to craft gear?
Anyone know how to unlock it?
arctic walrus
Then yes use MA
lilac idol
ok
arctic walrus
Nyo that's a #wow-general question
crude gate
Ah didn’t see that
brave vector
445 goraks better late than never
echo hornet
hey there. does lucid sim lower cuz it's only lvl 2 and at lvl 3 it outperforms others? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fo6yRYq67sJd18yx8gai2y in aoe it sims low too
arctic walrus
Yes that would be the case
Also I hope you don’t Actually run 3 eb for your st setup
echo hornet
it's for M+. saw some ppl run it, so i went with it
hasty fiber
assa m+ inkpod 450 + 435 plumage? or shall i run something else
i usually run as outlaw just trying some new things
i have a socketed phial 445 but idk if thats rlly viable
arctic walrus
You probably actually might want to run with lucid anyway, because the haste from iris is not all that desireable in m+
echo hornet
ok, thx. i do feel sometimes that i'm running dry on energy ST
arctic walrus
Yeah it’ll happen sometimes
But it’s a very small gain/loss either way so dw about it too much
R3 will be way better though
echo hornet
gotcha. back to farming my nazjatar dudes lvl
brave vector
do we pop the crit buff for coral on our first vendetta?
vast forum
how?
lilac idol
hey guys, does cloak of shadows work on briny bubble?
and also does evasion work on frenetic charge?
crisp steppe
Cloak works. Just stack up with the other ppl
lilac idol
so you can't solo frenetic charge with evasion?
drifting cloud
its magic damage
drifting cloud
yes
ornate gazelle
Can you always bait spear on mythic azshara to the same person by keeping a melee on cyranus the entire phase?
arctic walrus
She picks a melee, they can be on aethanel and still get targetted
granite rampart
i thought it picks a player in los of cyranus
dense rose
i know i'm suppose to sim... But i'm in an interesting Spot 29% Crit 25% Haste 29% Mastery Am i suppose to have that much Haste o.O
arctic walrus
Nothing interesting, looks like a bunch of stats
timber meadow
just like sim everything reasonable w/ gem replacements
and go with what sim tells you is what i typically do
if im totally lost
lilac idol
what essences should I use for raid if cdf isn't rank 3 yet?
cosmic pier
what ever sims best
lilac idol
I see some youtube guides that say u can use lucid major when u run out of energy during vendetta
arctic walrus
Sim your essences. Then you can see if lucid Major is actually the right call, because u probably won’t be
hasty hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
fathom wyvern
So what major do I want to run on azshara progress?
tropic ocean
bote
fathom wyvern
Clf or blood?
rigid mango
Logs show the best setup quite clearly
rigid mango
Blood means you get damage at the right places
wide delta
can I use main hand dagger and off hand sword as sin?
slim olive
No has to be both daggers
steady owl
For m+ Is it good or bad to stack traits like unstable flames or heed my call? Say all my Azerite pieces have unstable flames, gutripper and heed my call, should I stack 3 of what sims the highest or pick one of each?
stuck knoll
You’re probably gonna want to just stack UF there
Gutripper is a ST proc and heed is a pretty short range
The extra crit is nicer
dawn moat
got socketed benthic boots upgraded, what next gloves or bracers?
unreal kayak
got gorak second time on random
strange python
hi all, is there a guide for what to spend residuum on?
modest tendon
Wowhead suggestions are fine
strange python
thanks
shrewd night
Droptimizer 👌
high nacelle
I know I should trust the sim but any reason swirling and BI beat a first NP?
young portal
If the difference is marginal I would still take the NP
cobalt pelican
first np just really isn't that much more valuable than any other np this tier
energy income on the opener is more than fine
young portal
Agreed, was just the consistency value I preferred with a NP over the bbi
high nacelle
makes sense thanks
dense rose
What 3 Peices do i want for M+ Someone was telling me i want to try to stack 3 EB 2 Shroud and 1 NB? is this true? or can i go look somewhere to confirm
heavy haven
so what is it about BotE major and Strife minor that makes them strong for M Azshara? I'm seeing all the top logs using them
rigid mango
Bote because you get the damage at the right places
Strife because it's pretty much equal to iris anyways, but you target swap a lot in p3
Iris isn't bad though.
tropic ocean
@heavy haven u take less dmg as well
shrewd iron
In what way does Vendetta benefit from Condensed Life Force?
arctic walrus
5% damage buff perma uptime
distant lava
Bonus haste too
arctic walrus
Yeah
rigid mango
Vend gains from CLF, CLF doesn't gain from Vend
arctic walrus
That’s what I said yesterday 
shrewd iron
So is it worth holding second Vendetta until CLF is off cd again?
rigid mango
If you're not losing a cast
But it's more likely worth to save CLF for vend
So if your kill timer is say, 5 min
You won't get another CLF after your 2nd
You just save CLF to use it with your 3rd vend
But you would lose a cast of vend if you saved it for CLF.
uneven aspen
For the mythic bosses you would use Strife as a minor - is it already worth taking when it is rank 2? Or should I take something else for those bosses till I got it on 3?
lilac idol
for raids I’m currently following the wowhead gear guide, 3 DD+TB+NP+BI
Should that be fine
My b not TB
Keep messing up with DH traits
What’s that trait with the green knife called again
uneven aspen
Twist the knife
lilac idol
Ye
tropic ocean
@uneven aspen sim it
arctic walrus
Sim top gear
tropic ocean
iris is usually superior but loses value on fights where u need to switch targets
c&s is just a passive buff that happens to have super good uptime
crisp hollow
Should I be using font 10s (starting the cast) before Vendetta so I have coral crit% boost for vendetta?
tropic ocean
ideally ~14s
crisp hollow
oh ok so cast it so I can line coral up with vendetta exactly?
uneven aspen
But how do I sim lower uptime?
arctic walrus
Lower uptime of what
rigid mango
Thanks for copy pasting it
uneven aspen
Nevermind, I didn't mean to ask how to sim lower uptime, but rather how I sim switching targets.
If C&S is taken for fights where you switch targets, I would think thats what I need to simulate to get accurate results.
keen bloom
What essences to play for zaqul? have all rank 3
lilac idol
arctic walrus
You don’t sim for “accurate results”
If you’re going down for both echos, take vision minor blood major
If not, do like pp or strife
lilac idol
I’m just lazy and always take cdf, lucid and world vein since I raid with guildies
brave vector
I’m not sure if you can sim specific uptime in multitarget encounters but someone other than me would know better
uneven aspen
@arctic walrus
But if I sim myself, I sim myself with 100% uptime, so Iris will be better, obviously. I don't get it
So this wouldn't tell me anything about what I wanted to know
brave vector
General rule of thumb I’ve been following is if you can’t switch back to a target to refresh the haste buff effect every 10 seconds then just use strife
Instead of iris
upper veldt
Guys I wanna try to play this week some m+ with assa. I haven't played too much with this spec but my biggest concern is how and when to use BotE during dungeons. Any tips?
I mean what is usually best moment to use this essence
brave vector
I think the opener on trash is gggr BotE fok
brave vector
I’m not sure what that last bit you said means but in trash on m+ I believe you garrote x3 then drop a rupture. Then BotE then spam fok
tropic ocean
if you run ct, you'll pop ct before bote
brave vector
Then maintain 4 ruptures while continuing to fok correct?
arctic walrus
@uneven aspen because you don’t need a sim to realize if a boss will have you switching targets often
And especially at rank 2? If you’re taking clf, iris will be better for you anyway
The only fight you want strife is when you’re running blood
Which is mythic azshara
brave vector
Do we not run blood on zaqul?
uneven aspen
Vel, that was exactly what I was asking - if it is worth at rank 2 for those fights. Thanks for answering
I didn't say I need to sim it, that was a suggestion of someone else
rigid mango
dark crag
445 font, tasty
arctic walrus
Only cloak
grave trail
Hello fellow Sinners
quick question, so i have been running into this awkward situation a lot recently, prob due to having more haste, so lets say ur toxic blade came off cd and rupture is like 4 seconds off needing refresh
do i wait those 4 seconds and not use TB to refresh rupture
even if ill energy cap
- having 4-5 seconds of not using tb (guide says use tb on cd)
is it worth waiting 5 seconds before using tb?
arctic walrus
Do you not know about pandemic
arctic walrus
Well you’re saying “wait 5 seconds” which makes me assuming you are waiting for your bleeds to time out before reapplying . Anyway, reapply bleeds inside tb, it’s fine
grave trail
even tho ill prob miss an envenom
during tb?
i know garrote is not a big loss cause its just energy but refreshing Rupture is a whole envenom to sort of speak
drifting cloud
or if you make it a habbit you will start losing casts of tb
drifting cloud
what vel said
grave trail
so its worth losing envenom cast inside tb window just to have more overall Toxic blade casts?
drifting cloud
but if rupture is 4 seconds off needing refresh it means its been in pandemic for atleast 4 seconds
grave trail
yeah i understand what you're saying, but lets say rupture has like 8 seconds left overall
scarlet sequoia
can u just say if its 4 seconds from falling off or 4 seconds from being in the pandemic shit
rigid mango
If you're at full cp, 8 sec left on rupture and tb next gcd
You rupture outside of pandemic if all you're losing is max 2 sec or something?
And then TB and do as normal
You can refresh if it's very clsoe to pandemic
but not further than ~2 seconds
grave trail
and yes master @scarlet sequoia exactly that
ok thanks @rigid mango ill try implement that into my rotation and planning
drifting cloud
exactly what lol he gave you 2 options 😄
grave trail
4 seconds in the pandemic shit
rigid mango
You're typing the same thing again
Either 4 sec from pandemic or 4 sec from dropping
grave trail
lets just say 8 seconds overall
and tb is currently up
so you wait a net of 4 seconds
rigid mango
No.
You press TB
Either you refresh super soon before hitting pandemic timer
Or you just refresh inside of TB
Either way the gain/loss from doing it outside but within small margin isn't large
grave trail
yeah and that was my question no need be an asshole lol
ok
so refreshing rupture inside tb is worth it
rigid mango
Who's being an asshole?
grave trail
"should really just play better" well thats kind of a given if im asking a question i want to get better
just seem like a useless statement
An*
rigid mango
I mean, sin is super simple
rigid mango
If you have rotational issues you're playing it wrong
And playing it wrong is hard
That's all.
grave trail
its more of a timing issue
never had timing issue before
but i got some upgrades so i guess haste values or something has to do with it
fervent jasper
@grave trail as a general rule, refresh bleeds inside pandemic and press TB on CD.
That's basically the entire spec rotation
grave trail
yeah but the issue was which zine already covered it was is it worth to refresh rupture inside tb
i know all the other rules lol
tardy ether
when you finally kill zaqul and some ass boomkin gets the helmet 
fervent jasper
Refresh bleeds during pandemic and press TB on CD
rigid mango
For no reason, with less accuracy.
grave trail
no offense
rigid mango
So yeah you do you.
Like I said, diff is marginal anywyas.
You can reapply within, but reapplying just before if pandemic is within 2~ seconds is a gain
grave trail
thanks Zine for answering my question
that really does help
its just an issue been having recently like i said not always the case so i wanted to know the opinion here
rigid mango
drifting cloud
its not going to happen every tb thats why you feel it might be super wrong to do
but like Zine said, the difference is super marginal
grave trail
@drifting cloud absolutely it does feel bad, but knowing is marginal difference makes me feel less bad when it does happe lol
signal hazel
I'm seeking some expert guidance. I feel as if my ST dmg isn't up to par the way its supposed to be and suspecting my stat balance. I'm been simming and getting stat weights (albeit less accurate than a normal sim) to try and maximize be capable dps but when running a triple double dose build which requires a lot of haste I'm being directed to slap on gear that further increase my crit and mastery while running on 15% haste (which seem pretty low to me). If I try and maximize my haste I get a stat balance of 33C/20H/32M and sim at about 32k dps. When I switch out the recommended gear for the highest sim running triple double dose I get 33C/15H/37M and sim at about 36k dps. Should I ignore Raidbots and work on stacking more haste or aim for a soft cap?
dire spoke
If your ST output isn't on par the sim-number or haste isn't the problem
grave trail
link ur raidbots?
signal hazel
Yeah, I'm just asking about stats and gearing, I get pretty close to what I sim at.
arctic walrus
Again, it doesn’t matter what answer me give you. Sim everything you go, and go with it
signal hazel
After vendetta and lucid dreams runs out my regen is dogshit and wondering if focusing on improving that would deliver better results would improve the sim despite what it recommends.
arctic walrus
There’s no secret formula especially for patchwork
Also are you sure iris isnt a better major than lucid. Going off a guess here, would sim as well
dire spoke
subterfuge?
signal hazel
Yeah, its just a mythic build so I can slap on garrotes for aoe pulls
scarlet sequoia
but you have no shrouded suffocations bro
no offense here
but what is your idea
signal hazel
Different set of azerite gear for that.
scarlet sequoia
then why are u simming with subterfuge
signal hazel
I just didn't change my talents