cunning geyser
ok
#assassination
burnt dome
well not 5 sec
if you get in combat at X you do font at X-6 or 7 then stealth quickly before you get in combat and prepot
so youre missing 1 or 2 sec at most
arctic socket
So is it better to run a rank three of beam or stay with rank one of lucid dreams? (Sims are the same basically by 10 dps) but what has a better play style
arctic socket
Major
rancid bobcat
You need a little less than 1 second from when console is activated to be able to get a full channel and restealth
So I start channeling on 1 to be safe
dark crag
do people use vendetta on the first hulk at azshara mythic?
rigid mango
If you're tasked to, yeah
Doesn't really matter, p1 damage doesn't matter
You'll have it up for p2 anyways
fathom wyvern
on zaqul how do you avoid getting insta slammed when you enter delerium realm by a tent?
crisp steppe
@fathom wyvern I believe the tentacles spawn at players that are already in the delirium realm. if they are at max range it's unlikely for them to hit you but it can still happen
rigid mango
That is true
but it also happens super consistantly on 2nd delirium, either that's shitters being shitters or that's just how it works.
fathom wyvern
when do you want to enter delerium before first echo?
like how long before?
cuz if i enter just as the thing appears i have 9 stacks when add spawns
drifting cloud
with the stop dps strat I go in after the 1st slams end
but yeah I always cloak in 1st one
proven crane
What PvP Talents do I run for BGs as Assas?
proven crane
ty
scarlet sequoia
@fathom wyvern enter when boss is at around 70 energy or something
we do 1 add thing tactic and we enter at 80 energy
scarlet sequoia
yea
rigid mango
ooft
minor thicket
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
jolly gulch
Anyone got a good addon for tracking rupture/garrote etc? Thanks
arctic walrus
Just use a weak aura
strange python
Guys for mm+ it's better 3shrouded 2 echoing or 3 echoing 2 shrooded?
rigid mango
First one
winter gale
Guys if I am using Loyal to the end
Am I counting ranged guildies too or just melee ?
rigid mango
Ranged should be in range at all times.
winter gale
I have an option to either use Loyal or Np for Queen Azshara progress and there is 4 of us melee with Loyal atm
rigid mango
Use what sims best.
drifting cloud
you are stacked on azshara on all the important parts of the fight anyways
winter gale
Y, its only 0.2%
rigid mango
NP is just a constant, so you'll always get the right damage at the right places
rigid mango
grave trail
Hello fellow sin friends
im currently changing to horde side what are the top races for sin?
non ally and ally
hidden bay
https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=races is pretty accurate
grave trail
Ok yeah i was checking that, so its good to trust it?
ill take ur word for it herp dont dissapoint me
grave trail
true i understand what ure saying but hey min max brotha
Fuck i wanted a maghar orc or my sin spec but i dont know if ill have it available
plain moon
If you plan on playing m+ belf purge is very good
grave trail
Mainy sin raiding
plain moon
I’m all for min maxing but wouldn’t play a race you dislike for how small the gains are
arctic walrus
It's literally so unnoticable
plain moon
Also keep in mind through xpac times things change
arctic walrus
the only reason to change race is for a racial, or if you want to pad your sim
plain moon
Pretty sure panda will sky rocket to #1 when the new xpac releases
grave trail
well im going from alliance to horde so might as wel get whats better hehe
i do like mahar orc looks for sin
so i guess ill go with that thanks!
graceful mirage
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
arctic tinsel
someone mentioned a pvp guide being somewhere
anyone able to help me find it? I cant seem to locate it
just looking for azerite traits and stat prio etc. was told by an r1 its diff from pve but didnt ghet to elaborate
meager nebula
@arctic tinsel not sure if there is another guide, this is the only one i can find https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-pvp-guide
meager nebula
it should be, not entirely sure if it's up-to date with the defensive trait nerfs and other nerfs that have occurred since 8.2
any of the regulars in the pvp channel should be able to fill you in on anything missing from there
bright smelt
How do you think one extra SS compares to just running with a swirling sands instead for m+ purposes? Mastery heavy build
(~1.8k mast)
rigid mango
SS is a lot better
rigid mango
Yah.
bright smelt
just figured swirling might be better in some cases (like bosses)
rigid mango
Barely.
bright smelt
and it might get close in that regard
rigid mango
SS is still the best trait of the season, so.
worldly iron
@bright smelt you yourself typed SS followed by swirling sands, so of course Zine would refer to the same SS you did 
vast forum
ss is the single best ST trait on short enough fights
remote valley
For Mythic + what azerite traits would you guys consider mandatory to have? and how many of that trait?
woeful hare
3 SS, 1 EB
woeful hare
and fill with BBI TTK
remote valley
thank you shade! 🙂
rigid mango
Fill with more eb's too
You're not limited to 1 eb, several are probably better in a lot of cases outside of say, KR/ToS.
remote valley
situation wise, if you have 2+ more packs should we be using fan of knives? or crimson once and fan of knives spam? rupture 3? Still kind of new to assination. I like the spec.
rigid mango
Your goal is to keep up 4 bleeds
Either empowered garrotes or ruptures
And yes, you fok at 2+ targets
To gain CP
remote valley
gotcha, am i supposed to spam knives? do i use crimson at any point? or is that just talent choice?
woeful hare
Use Toxic blade
rigid mango
You can use CT outside of KR/Siege/temple
rigid mango
PB is the better option for those ones though
There's an argument for HB too I suppose, although I just feel like CT is better but meh
If you're running blood, which you should farm if you don't have it, it's essentially a button to press and then just fok until the buff is out
You don't finish or anything, just fok
hazy bough
I was just talking to a assassination streamer and he was saying for mythic plus specifically it's better to have 3 echoing blades and to shrouded the other way around would be better for a tyranical key or kings rest or temple of Seth
rigid mango
Diff people have diff views
distant lava
That was true in s2
hazy bough
3and3 is best but price the EB**
rigid mango
If you wanna go full ballistic aoe, stacking that high is great
hazy bough
Priority
remote valley
You guys are awesome, thank you for the insight!
rigid mango
I mean it'll work for sure, that build has always and will always work
But it's also pretty much purely aoe
scarlet sequoia
ofc, np
hazy bough
My current situation with azerite gear I cant get 3 SS and 3EB I can only get 3 of one and 2 of the other. So I had asked which was better to maintain 3 of and he said EB if I'm only doing m+
rigid mango
I'd say 3 SS.
rigid mango
Crumit?
scarlet sequoia
LOL
rigid mango
Never haste
hazy bough
I have 14%haste 34% crit38% mast 0%vers right now
rigid mango
Those stats are really bad :/
Your crit and mast are very low
and your haste is way too high
hazy bough
Just shit pieces
rigid mango
Haste is really bad
Because essentially the only thing it does is help a bit with bleed ticks on packs
When other stats like crit and vers impact eb A LOT, and mastery impacts your SS and a majority of your toolkit as a whole A LOT
Haste just doesn't do much outside of the obvious boss fights, but even then trash is a majority of the dungeon so it's not worth speccing around that.
hazy bough
Ok I'll stick with build A and hope for.more crit gear
rigid mango
Yep, pretty much.
Just lose as much haste as you possibly can
And bump that crit up
hazy bough
You think I should go to 3 echoing blades to shrouded and one blight born or stay 3 shrouded to echoing blades 1 twist the knife
rigid mango
I'd go 3 ss 2 eb, if that's what your options are
rigid mango
hazy bough
Yea I just started this rogue last week.
Still trying to get the Epic win lol
5 losses so far
hazy bough
Yea u get like 5-800 in an epic even for a loss
hazy bough
Yea
rotund mural
Haven't played my rogue for a while... 2ss 2eb 2ttk still the best for m+?
rigid mango
3 ss + any amount of eb + fill out with ttk/bbi
faint scaffold
Hey
fiery shard
orly, and here i was about to replace everything for eb
rotund mural
@rigid mango Is 3 ss good if the tank likes chain pulling like a crazy bastard? xD
bright tusk
Also, trash on tyrannical die too fast imo.
Someone said 3x SS on fortfied Kings rest is where you shine as assa
bright tusk
yeah I'm only at 16-17 on all dungeons currently, so maybe I should replace 1 ss with 1 eb?
rigid mango
I mean it's fortified this week so
rotund mural
damn... i only have 1ss...
tropic ocean
just school him
rigid mango
Your 3 globals are worth more than eveyrone else in your group's 3 combined
fiery shard
16-17...noobs. Im pushing solid +2's. Fear me.
fiery shard
oooof, sorry sir
dark crag
M0 is for addicted, i play 1 hc a week
vast forum
if you're lvl 120, get a life
steep lagoon
Has anyone tried the Deeper Strat+Hidden Blades build on Orgozoa yet?
rigid mango
Didn't even know there was such a build.
rigid mango
There's 4 targets not 3
steep lagoon
True.. But also not 3-4 target 24/7 for 5 min straight :p
arctic walrus
There’s literally always 4+ targets
steep lagoon
Yeah, I mean I've never tried this build on Orgozoa - yet tried Sin on Orgozoa, cos I've always played Outlaw on it.. Just wondered if anyone had tried it yet with this build and had some sim tips or whatev 🙂
arctic walrus
Yep not like it’s the top build on Warcraft logs or anything (:
tropic ocean
?
hushed maple
HeyHey bois
hushed maple
I am thinking about returning to the WoW stuff and wanted to ask, what changed since the world first Jaina kill regarding rogues xD
vast forum
lol the icons are tiny and i didn't even notice Xd
tropic ocean
hb is probably good cuz of downstairs
where ull arrive with high stacks
and when u spread u get some stacks too
vast forum
HB is good because of 3xEB
vast forum
no, but EB buffs fok
and HB multiplies fok dmg
people seem to forget that EB doesn't only do the echo thingy, but also increases baseline fok dmg
scarlet hinge
fok me
tropic ocean
think ct is still superior with 3 eb if every gcd is fok
think why hb is so good in that particular fight is that u can get more than 1 stack
scarlet sequoia
why tf do u guys always go so hard when it comes to orgozoa
irrelevant shit fight
kill and move on
arctic walrus
Be 
like us and try to figure out sivara strats
fiery shard
I'm just trying to do more than 14k dps in m+ okay 😢
scarlet sequoia
well if ure doing 14k dps its not obvious
fiery shard
I was joking but, did you ever stop to think people in here may be in bad gear and running m+1's?
hushed maple
half this discord just thinks, they are the best, know the best and everyone can do 1 billion DPS by just "simming your character".
so no, they do not see the ones going m+1
hushed maple
yup
well not everyone ofc.
But alot of people here are kinda ignorant and stiffed on their opinion
drifting cloud
You wish you were as good as raz 
arctic walrus
And will largely be due to your gear
tropic ocean
wohoo let the rage flow through you
arctic walrus
I’m a better exsang player than raz could ever be
tropic ocean
and yeah if you do 14k dps and are not ilvl 200 simming your character will not make you do1 mil dps but probably 20k
😄
arctic walrus
Like you can do 14k on a 110 or some shit
scarlet sequoia
ah im sorry, i dont think of the ppl doing +2s no
but 14k is very low for any ilvl
unless you are 320 fresh ding
hushed maple
yeah that is true. But still my point is valid. I am thinking about starting again and as far as I remember doing 22k simmed dmg was kinda decent so yeah 14k is a little low
tropic ocean
@arctic walrus yeah i did 2m + when I was 110
hushed maple
lel
tropic ocean
🤷🏿♂️
fiery shard
My damage is low tbh. not quite 14k but low. Thats why i came here, to learn how to get better
fiery shard
Indeed, im not asking for help yet, im sat at work 😄
tropic ocean
not being at work but being in the dungeon will greatly improve dps
fiery shard
Hmm, solid advice.
scarlet sequoia
what are your other stats
32% is not too much if your other stats are fine
i have 37% crit in my raid gear
strange python
Stats: 32,56 % crit, 17,09 % haste, 2,76 % Vers, 44,29 % Mastery @scarlet sequoia
scarlet sequoia
for those stats, yes you should drop either crit or mastery for more haste
strange python
22% haste is a good number
scarlet sequoia
ideally you have behemoth chest with loyal to the end making mastery basically useless
letting u focus on other stats
most rogues at high end have like 30-35% mastery
strange python
I returned from a break. So i havent not good choices i only have ilv 😄
scarlet sequoia
right but yeah as aimbotter said, just use topgear on raidbots
strange python
sure ^^
inner sonnet
For M+ is Master Poisoner preferred for T1 talent choice?
modest tendon
No
inner sonnet
Stick with Elaborate Planning?
modest tendon
Yes, master poisoner only increases weapon damage poisons
If it increased garrote and rupture it would be sick
But eleaborate planning is always best in pve
strange python
Im doing a 11M Iteration sim now 😄
inner sonnet
best role ring trait for M+ assass? Heed/Overwhelming?
polar cape
Op is op
vernal flume
why would OP be good in m+ if haste is extremely devalued there?
inner sonnet
So I've got 3SS 1 TtK 1 LotE and 1 EB for M+ traits, that's the best traits on gear I've got with SS
bright smelt
loyal doesnt really do much in m+
should probably swap that to ttk (if you're running behemoth chest which I assume you are?)
inner sonnet
never had that drop 
using the helm from Za'Qul*, its the only helm I've got with SS
plain moon
What does your guys CD usage end up looking like on zaq when doing zerg 2split strat. Some of our pulls I was getting font off CD just before first split but most good pulls font was coming up right as he spawned and felt bad to channel font when I'm supposed to be bursting. Also not being able to coral because by the time second trinket CD is up the add is dead, same thing with vanish
upbeat hazel
how do you guys open on azshara? full ST on one miniboss or rupture the other one before vendetta
inner sonnet
Azshara I dot both then just focus one
rigid mango
I open gar mut rup step mut rup gar pop cd's
You end up having bleeds on both, hit bote on both, pop cd's
rigid mango
So gar is up on 2nd boss quicker
Otherwise if mut crits are shit I missed bote on both when cyranus gets moved
rigid mango
Wut
tropic ocean
yep
rigid mango
The loss from opening gar is very minimal
And I valued consistantly getting bote on both
Gar mut rup on the caster and step to cyranus
I don't lose anything from using step there anyways
Get bleeds off faster on both, pop cd's earlier, get more damage off before I have to walk over to do hulk
It's more consistant that way imo.
tropic ocean
I just dont see howd you use step when they are next to each other
rigid mango
They aren't?
Not literally anyways
With gar open I get bleeds off earlier, so I don't want to attack her for aslong as you would with mut opener
So they're not together when bleeds are applird
tropic ocean
? They are standing on top of each other for first 10? Sec
tropic ocean
yeah so open on dude switch to girl dot it
Stick with dude
literally no movement required
rigid mango
Nah bec I'll pop cd's on cyranus
Why would I want bleeds to come up to refresh that early
tropic ocean
?
tropic ocean
You want max bleeds on the mob u are not focusing
So they are up on him as long as possible while u are on the other and hulk
rigid mango
Yah but with this I only need to reapply on cyranus when I need to move for hulk
So I maximise the uptime when I'm gone from him there
tropic ocean
u do the same with normal opening
rigid mango
And it also means if beam is shit and I go to caster instead
I've maxxed out damage there
tropic ocean
Mut rup mut gar on cyranus (while aethanal is brought build with mut) switch aethanel 4-5 cp rup aethanel gar switch to cyranus mut mut vend tb bote normal rotation
rigid mango
I found myself doing this for consistancy on hulk damage
rigid mango
Yah but with mut opener I found myself having inconsistant bote hits on both
tropic ocean
open with gar or mut doesnt matter
rigid mango
May that be bec of own missplay or tanks moving early
tropic ocean
But opening on non focusing mob is dps loss
rigid mango
Means that you get gar on cd way earlier
tropic ocean
Open focus target dot other target back to focus target
Redot focus target
Do hulk
Switch to non focus target
Etc
= superior bleed uptime to opening on non focus target
rigid mango
Bleeds on her, step to cyranus, bleeds there, build for cd's and pop. I only reapply just before hulk om cyranus, meaning if I get shit beam I can work with no issue
tropic ocean
Do you read what im saying
tropic ocean
U lose dot uptime by doing what you say
rigid mango
In the end it neutralises bec you reapply earlier than I do on cyranus when beam is bad
tropic ocean
Theres no bad beam for rogue
rigid mango
It's just how I played around people reacting slow on prog to beams
Sure, but there's no reason to go cyranus with him on the other side of the beam
rigid mango
When you just go aethanel and ranged swap cyranus
rigid mango
Yeah it makes sense. I just did what other rogue did when I joined on prog and after I noticed I stopped caring about optimising opener
Think opening on cyranus with gar instead of mut is the best probably, gar>mut opener just bec of consistancy when tanks move shit
waxen cobalt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
plain moon
anybody able to answer what I asked earlier about CDs on zaq splits?
dark crag
My raid makes melees go on caster mob because melees have kicks
We also do a dmg stop so it doesn't matter at all
But opening with g on the side mob and then switching to focus mob feels better
plain moon
What does your guys CD usage end up looking like on zaq when doing zerg 2split strat. Some of our pulls I was getting font off CD just before first split but most good pulls font was coming up right as he spawned and felt bad to channel font when I'm supposed to be bursting. Also not being able to coral because by the time second trinket CD is up the add is dead, same thing with vanish
steep obsidian
I don't know anyone who does the zerg strat, I think I saw like 2 logs before we killed it the first time
is that a thing now?
do you still wait around in p1 to push at the right time? maybe you can not even use cds there so the line up better for the rest of the fight?
tropic ocean
many guild do zerg strat now
u just vantus up and burn it
u use everyhing on pull
dunno what zerg 2 split strat is
steep obsidian
hmm yeah that is a good point lol 2 split is normal
drifting cloud
I assume thats just not stopping on pull
tropic ocean
u essentially zerg to not have 2 split
tropic ocean
u can also try to do normal strat and before 2nd split
u use all cd 2nd pots bl
and try to burn it before 2nd split
u have 1min 40 sec window or so
from 1st to 2nd splits
steep obsidian
im guessing it would work best if you had some good fire mages and spirests to send to delirium for deeps
tropic ocean
nah
plain moon
yeah our guild wasnt quite making the dps check to 1split it for prog
tropic ocean
u want the combustion to burn the boss
plain moon
the zerg is just were never stopping for dps
steep obsidian
that would make some of the linups pretty shit
drifting cloud
so you use cds on pull or 1st puncture with your strat?
steep obsidian
you might as well just wait around
tropic ocean
with zerg strat u cd on pull
plain moon
on pull yeah
tropic ocean
u'll have all 2min for puncture again anyway
drifting cloud
no?
steep obsidian
push to p2 waiting is like 1:30 and 2 mins are up for the first puncutre if you use on pull
that is the way it worked for me anyway
drifting cloud
I mean he said they dont stop
steep obsidian
i know
drifting cloud
isnt puncture timer based on when you go to 85
drifting cloud
because you cant read
he said zerg 2 echo, and I told you that just means not stopping on pull
but you just assumed otherwise
steep obsidian
i understood what hes saying
tropic ocean
theres no point to use cd on pull if u dont zerg
and essentially no point in using bl when they did
plain moon
that 11% was a 100% kill but raid couldnt come up from fear
the lust timer is stopping us from getting another dread
is that not when must zerg guilds lust?
drifting cloud
the actual zerg strat is killing boss before 2nd echo
zerging on pull just makes your timers all over the place
plain moon
thats not the only zerg
plain moon
yeah thats the 1split strat
drifting cloud
but if you are there to just to make sure echoes die, just sit on your cds
nothing else to say really
so you can have a safety net when 1 other guy fucks up
tropic ocean
if you do normal strat and dont want to play 2 echos u can just lust after 1st echo
and everyone holds cd for that
rigid mango
If you're doing the no hold strat I just used cds on pull > 70% ~ with the puncture > 1st echo was blood vend coral > 2nd echo blood vend vanish font
tropic ocean
and then either u have enough dps to kill boss before 2nd echo or not
rigid mango
That's just consistant 2 echo.
drifting cloud
yeah he probably pops them at or just before last phase, so thats why theyre sometimes on cd for 1st one I assume
because if you do it like Zine said youre probably already sitting on them
so no point trying to get another set of cds in if youre progging
rigid mango
Man idk
tropic ocean
zine is playing zerg strat
tropic ocean
zerg strat = use everything on pull just push boss
rigid mango
you guys spent like 10 min arguing about semantics
plain moon
im popping on pull, then 2min, then 4min, then 5:45
tropic ocean
lust after1 st echo kill boss
rigid mango
Yeah ik
tropic ocean
which makes the fight easier and shorter if u can pull it off
rigid mango
that's what we do but zerg strat for some is just
zerging from start
but still 2 echo
that's what was achievable on prog anyways.
tropic ocean
I dont see the reasoning to zerg from start if u play 2 echoes anyways
you're making the fight harder for yourself
🤷
drifting cloud
true, but 100 pulls in theyre probably not gonna change
rigid mango
@plain moon aim for your 2nd to be in the puncture, don't use any coral stacks until first echo
steep obsidian
if i was min maxing boss damage @plain moon I'd get your outlaw to play sin hes doin half your boss damage even though hes lookin good on the meters your comp should easily be able to keep on with adds without him touching them
rigid mango
I mean we did this on prog
It worked fine
It's less boring
You also invest less time on waiting for an overlap each pull
so you see more of the fight each pull
time efficiency wise anyways
drifting cloud
eh you stop dps for less than 1 min
people overrrate it so much just because of how annoying it is
rigid mango
Still boring as fuck.
It's still a lot of time if you count in 10's of pulls
but yeah, each to their own
drifting cloud
yeah but so is alot of other silly things
rigid mango
Whatever works out is fine.
tropic ocean
by now I would just lust after 1st echo
steep obsidian
having it be different every pull would have fkd my guild over
tropic ocean
not having to deal with 2 echoes makes fight trivial
rigid mango
yah ofc on farm that's super easy
drifting cloud
like 4min into fight and 3 people get tentacle slammed
steep obsidian
we were bad enough as it is
rigid mango
well, should be anyways
tropic ocean
u can also leave 1 guy to kill last summoner
rigid mango
But on prog 2 echoing is probably safer I'd guess anyways
rigid mango
Well
tropic ocean
u can just play the fight like u do
drifting cloud
because you need dps?
tropic ocean
and lust after 1st echo
rigid mango
not safer
tropic ocean
echo is the problem not the rest 😄
drifting cloud
echo is easy if people dont get thrown out
rigid mango
Echo is simple af too
drifting cloud
even if they do, 3 people can still kill it most of the time
plain moon
on prog start we wanted to try to 1split but didnt feel like we had the dps so we swapped to this
rigid mango
So idk, it's all personal opinions here.
Yeah then that's fine
Then 2 echoing is obviously better
End of.
I'm assuming you're using font coral ye?
plain moon
yeah
drifting cloud
just because 4 people have an important role doesnt make what the other 16 do any less important
what about all the wipes when you have 1 guy dead and no cr so summoners respawn
tropic ocean
idk but in the log u linked literally wipe to failing echo
rigid mango
Pull > use everything but coral on the puncture just after 70% delirium > bote vend coral on first echo > bote vend font vanish 2nd echo
That's how you should spread cd's to do decent dps whilst also doing very consistant echo damage.
Who cares about what the log says
RL felt damage was lacking
They have to do strats instead, tough luck, who cares.
plain moon
I shouldnt coral on 2nd vend use just so its higher stacks for first split?
rigid mango
Yeah
You just want the extra damage on first one to make it consistant each time
but you don't want to be using font nor vanish, not that you'll have them up anyways
because second echo is always more jank than first
plain moon
Ive been fonting while del ports are going out and using vend and such 10sec after like normal CD useage
rigid mango
Yeah, font on the way down on 2nd echo
plain moon
yeah fonting when he pops up
drifting cloud
are you lusting for yourself and using 25s pot?
rigid mango
You're better off saving them for when the puncture happens
plain moon
I do like what youre saying with just holding font and vanish
what time is the puncture
wont I not have it up if I dont pop 2nd useage off cd
drifting cloud
you use 2nd cd on puncture and then just afk till 1st echo I think is what he means
are you stopping dps before pushing to last phase for hysteria stacks?
drifting cloud
because then your cds dont matter anyways
rigid mango
The puncture happens ~10-15 sec after 70% delirium iirc
it's about 5-7 sec before 2nd delirium
plain moon
Alright thanks
Ryler were never stopping dps
but what do u mean dropping stacks. I dont have any stacks going into either split
drifting cloud
its not for splits, its just for going into last phase as healthy
but since we do stop dps on pull we might have totally different dread timers than yours anyways
so I guess its not relevant, but yeah we basically stop dps for like 5-10s before 50% because the boss does dread right after
so hysteria stacks drop off before that one
polar timber
is there a comprehensive guide for assas in m+
rigid mango
You'll be fine aslong as you don't die wrong times in delirium
untold current
Been reading through this last couple of pages - We are doing the same 2 echo non zerg strat
plain moon
Yeah im wondering with holding vend for puncture if I will have enough leech to stay alive
im sure ill be fine
rigid mango
Wait, do you go into 1st/2nd deli?
plain moon
first
polar timber
What combo of ss eb and ttk would you guys use for m+
plain moon
and I stay in whole time
rigid mango
3 ss 2 eb + bbi/ttk or another eb if you want full aoe
untold current
As I understand it - cds on pull, first puncture after 70% - bote, vend, 1st echo - bote, ven coral, 2nd same. When are you guys using vanish and font in there?
rigid mango
Drop all eb's for stuff like KR/ToS tyr
Use font and vanish with 70%
And with last delirium
Don't use coral at all until 1st echo
untold current
so on pull - all cd's ( bote, ven, font, vanish)
rigid mango
Aight like thios
untold current
then again on at 70% puncture
rigid mango
Pull - Everything
Puncture - Everything but coral
1st echo - bote vend coral
2nd echo - bote vend font vanish
rigid mango
link it?
steep obsidian
I always wondered about min maxing and dropping as much haste as poss and also running ds for delriums but having it play like complete ass outside of them would suck and I only never did echo delirums anyway
plain moon
well just as long as I do it before 2:15 Ill have it up for split
Hunter in my guild is saying he remembers it being around 2:20 ish
brittle pawn
do you guys go down to delirium asap? and when do you reset stacks?
arctic walrus
For echos?
brittle pawn
yea
we just swapped to rogues going down instead of mages because i was tired of getting ignited to death
and they're popping down as soon as everyone goes fear
didnt know if that was too early
because it's like 30s before split
arctic walrus
You go in after tentacle spawns, when the tank is taking the boss to the circle
This is like, 15s before split
or when the boss has like 70-80 energy
I don't understand why the mages are going down if you are troo
you're basically instant dead
brittle pawn
im a lock
arctic walrus
You should be popping cloak around 7 stacks though
brittle pawn
we swapped mages for rogues
arctic walrus
leeching, vial, should keep you healthy
Save healthstone and potion for last phase
brittle pawn
lol first 3 pulls without cheat death rogues are just dead
arctic walrus
There's gear compare for a reason
mystic dragon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet whale
Finally got VoP rank 3. Might not be that good for us now but you never know in the future
civic palm
w o o
modest tendon
I doubt it will ever been good :p
rotund mural
Bote or iris major for this week's m+?
modest tendon
Doesn’t matter
Might depend on the dungeon perhaps
But I take bote into everything
rotund mural
Sim dungeonslice tells me iris, but i see so many rogues with bote...
it's confusing
modest tendon
They do about the same overall
Bote does more single target and iris does more aoe on big packs
Sim for single target and bote will come out on top
rotund mural
thanks for your help mate, means a lot ^^
modest tendon
Well the thing about ML is that it has a lot of packs with one mob having a lot of health, robots in the first bit, masterminds before third boss
So if you are expecting to kill a lot of big health mobs bote might be better for the priority single target damage
If you are going to avoid the robots there is a good argument for iris though to be honest
So it depends on the route?
rotund mural
well i dont use method dungeon tools, but let's just try it with iris first, and see how it goes 😄
modest tendon
Do you prefer playing iris?
rotund mural
idk if i prefer it... kinda used it so far on my hunter, just recently came back to my rogue after 3 months
modest tendon
Just play what you enjoy, until you push 21+ it doesn’t matter
modest tendon
I don’t think there’s much in it
But if I’m going to try hard I’m always going bote
So I can kill bosses and scary mobs faster
rigid mango
There's no reason to pick iris over bote in any dungeon I don't think.
modest tendon
Need a sim crafter for this tbh, from my understanding they both do about the same overall
rigid mango
As outlaw I'm p sure that's true but idk
It doesn't really make sense to me how it'll do better
rotund mural
When do i wanna use bote in packs? after i apply 3 garrotes or?
rotund mural
just spam fok ?
rigid mango
Yep
rotund mural
sorry CT?
rigid mango
Crimson tempest
modest tendon
It’s viable
royal lantern
hidden blades is a 20% fok dmg increase
modest tendon
CT sims a bit higher than HB
But sims don’t take into account longer breaks between packs, like doing skips and waiting for noobs to be ressed, so HB In the real world might be fairly even with CT, of course this is speculation
rotund mural
would bote major and lucid/worldvein minor be good?
modest tendon
Maybe if other people in your group have worldvein
But the best is C&S
For your second minor
rotund mural
conflict and strife?
modest tendon
If you don’t have that, go for either purification protocol or crucible I’d say
Yes
modest tendon
Might be your best bet
rotund mural
yeah this is nice
royal lantern
C&S is not hard too get too rank3 tbh
im absolute dogshit in arena, but you only need a 1,4k rating or something and then a couple of weeks
rotund mural
i'll get it, just hven't played arenas for 3 months on rogue, getting there slowly
rotund mural
yeah i do it, for elite set that is x)
modest tendon
You should be fine then 😛
I had to learn how to pvp to get 1.6k
Well ‘learn’
I’m still not very good at it
royal lantern
did he master the art of
spamming cyclone
(thats not really sin related anymore btw^^)
modest tendon
Yes
rotund mural
i guess im average in arenas maybe hehe, just my azerites suck... can't get anything good for neither pvp or pve, it's always SoB azerites im getting...
modest tendon
We even figured out for me to stun the dps and Druid cyclone the healer so they didn’t get interrupted
God I’m a pro
rotund mural
I'm one of the few who like playing subterfuge in raids
Cause the dps loss from MA to Subterfuge for me is... 30
so... yeah xD
modest tendon
I used subt in last raid
royal lantern
but
without MA
you will not see those juicys 100k+ envenom crits
on every vanish
modest tendon
Couldn’t be bothered reforging my shimmerscale
rotund mural
yeah but that's the thing... dont have azerites for a perfect MA 😦
it's mostly SoB and echoing blades and ss's
modest tendon
Oh no the best m+ traits
rotund mural
and tradewinds xD
royal lantern
blackwater chest, zaqul head
you can get the engineering head too
or be lucky and get slitherling loa head from m+ vendor 🤷
rotund mural
or just pray they delete this azerite system next expansion 🙂
tropic ocean
Tier sets were 900% better
dark crag
Good tier sets were 1000% better
opaque grotto
Still better than legendaries at the beginning of legion tho
rigid mango
unreal sail
what are the best azerite talents for m+? right now i have 3 ss 2 eb 1 blightborne. debating on getting ttk with heed instead of blightborne with op
rigid mango
your current is probably better
unreal sail
do you know why the top guys are runnin 3 ss 2 eb and 1 ttk instead of blightborne?
rigid mango
TTK v BBI is arguable
unreal sail
kk i guess ill mess around and see how it goes
cobalt pelican
not everyone has all the gear in the game to choose from
i'm pretty sure nobody on the planet would pick ttk heed over bbi op
shadow talon
this macro for trick of the trade doesn't work on DH tanks, anyone know how to correct it ? /cast [@mouseover, help] [@focus, help] [@targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
vestal wren
maybe the dh tank had neural silencer or similar active
shadow talon
fuu thanks
nimble mesa
Defintiviely has to do with the player, and not the macro. It's neural silencer (often they have it on the mechagon trinket as a blue card) or he's on a mount (think AD & other dungeons where you mount often)
shadow talon
it was weird that another rogue in the party can trick the tank, so something might be wrong on my side
steel ocean
hey guys
scarlet sequoia
sir
steel ocean
im currently 397 Itlvl, I have no Idea how to gear up faster for sin, any rec?
scarlet sequoia
do m+ do raid do nazjatar for pearls
steel ocean
naztajar unlocks after the reputations ?
steel ocean
thx
wooden orchid
On Behemoth do guys open on boss and shadow step to puffer ?
Or just swim to puffer and shadow step to boss
young portal
start on puffer, step to boss
brisk forge
almost everyone using [Essence of the Focusing Iris] but worldvein sims higher for me stil. Anything speciel gear wise i need to make it sim higher? xD
brisk forge
oh 😮
graceful mirage
Worldvein? More like worldlame
rigid mango
solemn meadow
DK allied races feature of shadowlands
I waited all bfa for a patch with dk allied races
and now I have to pay for it
rigid mango
Yeah this seems very sin related.
graceful mirage
Assasination DKs new feature of Shadowlands
rancid spade
There is no Artifact Power to grind.
dark crag
I wonder what these covenant abilities will be
And if you are able to switch them later on
faint zealot
is sub or assasination better for random bgs when farming BotE? 445ish in both specs
distant cypress
i really hope you can swap the covenant abillities later on otherwise we are looking at a min/maxer hell, imagine picking wrong covenant or one that gets nerfed in next patch and is completely useless
you will have to reroll a character to have BiS abillity
dark crag
That would be the total opposite of what blizz tries to do with the new expac
dark crag
It must be changeable, but not like talents. Maybe 24 hour cd
rigid mango
directly related to
light pebble
Hey guys, I just hit 120 and want to move into Assassination but im having issues finding any good daggers to use. Are there any I can buy or get from somewhere that I can start using?
dire steeple
conquest cap
rigid mango
AH to buy one, or just do m+
arctic walrus
M0s
graceful mirage
ah should have some cheapish weapons
chilly marsh
just hope covenant is skills are not a dps gain
graceful mirage
when i started i bought 2 370 1hers for combat for dirst cheap
chilly marsh
dont wnat to have 4 rogues jsut to be able to pick the best
light pebble
What should I be looking for on the AH for daggers? Im new to wow so not really sure what stats are best
dire steeple
they are 
chilly marsh
for each tier..
graceful mirage
not haveing a rogue of each race
chilly marsh
right 😂
graceful mirage
what are you a casual?
chilly marsh
but if it realy turn being a huge dps difference...
graceful mirage
if they do make em have a difference in dps, they'll probably make em changeable at some point
or else they're onto some big shit
dire steeple
Apparently they are changeable
chilly marsh
just imagine: whant to raid go A... m+ go B pvp go C...
choose the wrong one ? handicapped for teh whole xpack
graceful mirage
inb4 paid covenant changes
chilly marsh
and if you can change easy they lose all impact and became only the other talent tree that you change every hour...
all announced features this one looks really bad to me
chilly marsh
exactly
it will be a nightmare to balance... and blizzard don't have a good history of doing it at all...
crystal vault
how can i check on logs, how often i envenom with 4, or 5 cp ?
chilly marsh
rigid mango
What?
chilly marsh
rogue power from bastion covenant
deals some dmg and give you 1 cp for 12s bsically your skills cost one less
for 12s
vapid scarab
slim canyon
Hello friends anyone want to walk me through how to use 2nd guardian of azeroth?
rigid mango
Pins do that really well 
slim canyon
thank you
unreal sail
unstable or op for m+?
rigid mango
op
rare pond
If anyone has some time, can you take a look at some logs? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TY8WXQRjMLv6DFCz/#fight=8&playermetric=bossdps
Queen's court prog/wipes, the other rogue consistently beats me in dps despite having slightly worse gear. He sims at about 48k while I'm above 50. What can I be doing to improve my dps here? I know I could keep some uptime on the other boss to keep dots up, but I wonder if I'm missing something else
arctic walrus
Uh
drifting cloud
its the same trinket as the KR one
cobalt pelican
you're behind almost a whole tb cast before 2 minutes even passes in the fight
nothing should really cause this to happen
neither of you are opening bleeds on both targets for some reason, bleed uptime in general is really low on pashmar
i guess that could just be a progressing guild thing like you're whipped to be stood still
drifting cloud
you also have inkpod, if youre wiping before it procs ofc its gonna show on meters
cobalt pelican
yea it's kinda significant tbh, in all the <2min pulls you're gettting like 50% of your coral used and 0% inkpod
and just in general your gear has a lot of things that are like.. not 'simbait' but definitely sim above their real world value by varing amounts like
you're playing iris minor he's playing conflict, iris just in general on fights like this is passable but probably not ideal
mechagon rings are really good but again sim above what the real world value is of them on 2t fight with movement etc
there's lots to improve, just focus on tb casts/bleed uptime and getting into some kind of rhythm with what you're doing with your steps
rare pond
Would it be worth swapping to 445/440 rings instead? I've got some decent options for those
steep lagoon
Any reason people go with Inkpod instead of Font on some bosses with CLF build? Seen they have both trinkets, but they choose ink+coral on some
arctic walrus
Because some people just don't like playing double on use, and are good enough to close the gap between the 2
steep lagoon
Ah kk
mystic dragon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
light pebble
does the amount of conquestt points u get per day become lower the more u play?
im only gettting like 8 per win now
pseudo hamlet
@light pebble you're getting higher CP for the first win in that day, then it's getting lower.
obtuse ruin
anyone here help me out with few M+ questions?
rigid mango
Sup
obtuse ruin
firstly is the dungeon slice sim reliable? kind of confused between talents/azerite
rigid mango
No, it's not
obtuse ruin
been trying to increase my mastery so that I can play CT over PB but sims always put PB higher
rigid mango
CT is probably just as good if not better outside of kr/tos/siege
I'd use pb in those though
obtuse ruin
aah ok and is crit still highly valued over mastery?
currently 37-8-50 (crit-haste-mast)
obtuse ruin
ok cool guess im gonna keep trying both PB and CT
nimble skiff
I'm still so conflicted on ct/hb/pb
I have x3 SS, x2 eb, x1 ttk. Hidden blades seems to be really strong especially with bote
modest tendon
CT sims slightly higher than HB overall, PB is there if you need single target
in reality there is likely not much difference between HB and CT
I'm playing CT because its fun 😛
light pebble
I just got my conquest cap, where do I hand it in to get the item?
obtuse ruin
horde is mugambla
light pebble
ok ty
modest tendon
The way Outlaw and Assassination are tuned right now, does assassination do more damage than outlaw on reaping?
especiially with 3eb builds
vast forum
not bursty enough
steep obsidian
reaping?
modest tendon
they are doing reaping in mdi
steep obsidian
Oh
vestal wren
sin has the potential to do more damage then outlaw with 3x eb
steep obsidian
That finished yesterday did t it? Didn’t get a chance to watch vods
vestal wren
yes, did not see the last match so not sure who won
obtuse mulch
vestal wren
problem is with assassination unlike outlaw you sacrafice st for aoe
so even if assassination does better in aoe it need to reduce its output to the priority target significantly to do so
also 3x ttk vs 3x ss only provides noticable higher output to the priority target(competes with outlaw) if you run with a talent that is atm not played in m+ (MA ttk build).
mystic dragon
Yeah I wouldn’t ever run 3 ttk, you need at least one eb
marble hemlock
I doubt that, unless you have vanish on every pull to actually get value out of it
But on any given pull w/o vanish, MA+ttk doesnt do anything on your opener does it?
MA in itself might still have value, but not due to TTK
vestal wren
so does subterfuge does it?
marble hemlock
Well, subter helps with the ramp
arctic walrus
You wouldn't even be using env in the opening ma window
marble hemlock
Like, MA+TTK are valuable individually, but outside of vanish burst windows I don't think theyre valuable due to the synergy between them
For prio both TTK and MA hold merit, but its completely independant of each other imo
In your opener with MA you dont envenom, and if you dont have vanish ttk is valuable but MA has no impact on that
vestal wren
without MA 3x ttk was very close in damage to 3x ss in prio damage
only MA pushed 3x ttk noticable higher
marble hemlock
Well, what happens if you remove vanish from that equation?
which is going to be most of your pulls or ingame situations
vestal wren
both ss and ma would be lower without that ofc
marble hemlock
id have to look at the sim directly again, i just dont see the inherent benefit fof MA+TTK
outside of vanish
the sims just look at a very specific situation in a vaccuum
but you cant extrapolate based on those sims for the entirety of m+
vestal wren
sure
marble hemlock
gonna check it out after this key
vestal wren
ss seem to lose significantly more then ttk
from not using vanish
thats not with the "spam fok" apl btw.
marble hemlock
is there a ttk one w/o MA, but subter instead?
thats really the point imo
non vanish ttk+ma vs non vanish ttk+subter
marble hemlock
❤
wouldnt be surprised
if the subter one is higher prio
than teh MA one 😄
ye
vestal wren
moment, i am not sure vanish is dissabled
ye.. forgot in the default profiles
moment, rerun
rotund mural
poison bomb or crimson tempest for waycrest 15?
vestal wren
without vanish ss build seems to lose massive
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pmyidH9FabujaJfdTdxsLb/simc
i remembered it not as close 🤔 (with vanish)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jf3gYAMtUkjPrihhfopPNm/simc
marble hemlock
yeah, but its not really about ss vs ttk in terms of prio, its about the statement that its MA that makes ttk so good
vestal wren
i think we modified the apl further for those sims
marble hemlock
and the difference between MA ttk vs subter ttk seems to be very minor
so its not really MA enabling ttk
vestal wren
yes ofc
just ma seems to push it even higher
again, i would need to see what additional changes i made to apl, might be closer with those. might be not
e.g. going from the sims.
MA gave you 3% more prio damage over subt.
TTk gave you 8% more prio damage
if you use vanish
without vanish TTK destroyed SS ofc
🤔 weird that i remembered it beeing closer (ss vs ttk (without MA))
marble hemlock
its definitely a bit weird, cause from an actual gameplay perspective i dont see the difference
(between MA+ttk vs subter+ttk)
oh no nvm
misread
yeah, the subter+ttk version has even higher prio than the MA one 😄
vestal wren
its about equal without vanish