Fuck vel typing as fast as richard
#assassination
tropic ocean
shadow talon
i see thx
uneven summit
anyone has a macro that paris essence with an ability?
arctic walrus
/cast essence
/cast ability
You shouldn’t really be using anything like that though considering essences are on the gcd
cunning geyser
Hello, for zaqul mythic (I go in delirium phase both times), would you recommend blood of the ennemy or condensed life force ? I assume BoE ?
also for how long would you recommend doing a sim for ? I prioritize ST damage
distant lava
if you go down both times you play BotE and VoP minor
and sim idk, just drop a bit of haste if you stay in delirium a while
viscid lichen
is it true that you can use a macro to shadowmeld and go into stealh while fighting a raid boss?
distant lava
no
viscid lichen
cool thanks
cunning geyser
thanks a lot @distant lava, should I play VoP even though I seem to have vendetta the second time I go down ?
as soon as I'm down the second time without VoP I have my vendetta but I do have to delay BoE
burnt dome
Any tips for ZaQul mythic? 😮
burnt dome
Ty ^^ Leech talent seems smart as well or no
tropic ocean
@burnt dome if u go in delirium yes, otherwise no
scarlet sequoia
busy sorry
hidden bay
they can clear trash without u 
rigid mango
You can just go on wcl and see his logs 
vestal wren
hes even #3 now on abysal
cunning geyser
if play VoP minor for zaqul it doesn't go well with font of power trinket no ?
rigid mango
I just used my desynced my cds anyways on echos
cunning geyser
yeah so no point playing VoP minor right ?
cunning geyser
I guess my guild is slow idk
polar cape
The only thing that dont line is 2min trink and vanish
rigid mango
Nah it's a set cast time
cunning geyser
but I get font of power on vendetta, should I run other trinket ?
rigid mango
No, font is fine
i used bote + vend + coral on first echo, bote + vend + font + vanish for 2nd echo
cunning geyser
all this playing BoE major and VoP minor
rigid mango
It's good for killing echos consistantly.
cunning geyser
?
polar cape
You can lust for yourself if you wanna be extra safe
cunning geyser
so you keep font for a long time
drifting cloud
all you care about is killing echoes, not doing max dps, the fight doesnt have a dmg check
cunning geyser
true
rigid mango
I just play around killing echos
drifting cloud
if you dont vendetta on pull you literally use it like 3 times in the fight lol
rigid mango
YEah that's fine
You just have to distribute your damage as to consistantly kill both echos
cunning geyser
ok
rigid mango
If you need more damage on 2nd echo, most likely you do
You just save stuff for that one
For me, first one always blew up, 2nd was more inconsistant on prog.
cunning geyser
if I don't need VoP minor, essence of focusing iris would probably be best and avoid protocol to not damage friends ? ofc depending on sim
but essence of focusing iris seems best for me in minor
drifting cloud
stop worrying about doing max dmg, just make sure you do as much as you can on echoes, thats your job
cunning geyser
but as I'm telling you I get vendetta back as soon as we go down on first echo and I have it on 2nd echo too
rigid mango
Unless they've changed the timers, which afaik, they havn't.
Psychotic split is cast lower than 2 min
polar cape
They havnt
rigid mango
Exactly.
cunning geyser
but it's not a timer, echo comes at 70 and 30
rigid mango
It's cast about 1:40 ish after first?
no?
Echo doesn't come at 70%?
That's first delirium
cunning geyser
oh we're just that consistent
oh right
I'm stupid no echo in delirium
yeah my bad
rigid mango
cunning geyser
I'm so stupid I was being confused
ok that makes sense now
sorry :/
it's because we're not that far in progress and I never saw 2nd echo yet
so I just learnt I'll need VoP minor for it and it's good to know
rigid mango
Yeah, you'll need it for that.
The entire fight is essentially killing those two echos consistantly
That's all there is to it
tardy belfry
Hi, is there a specific combination of traits for single target raid fights?
rigid mango
What sims best
Preferably several DD, an NP and stuff like loyal to the end/blightborne infusion
cunning geyser
ok do you delay vendetta for delirium phase Zine ?
Thanks a lot for all your help
rigid mango
You just want blood and vend for both
Whether you add vanish/font/coral to either, comes down to your spread
upbeat geode
does adding bleeds on extra targets increase ST dps? on orgozoa for example
rigid mango
We had more issues with 2nd echo, and I'd assume you'd have that too
drifting cloud
basically echoes are a bitch job, if youre assa or a demo lock youre just sitting there looking at ceiling waiting for them to spawn
sure you technically dont need everything to blow them up because you overgear it
rigid mango
You shouldn't lack the dps to kill the boss in the end
it's all about just killing the echos.
drifting cloud
but if you only care about killing the boss, thats what you do
a vop is pretty much a 0 dps essence, but it makes you have vendetta on both of them and thats huge for the fight
tropic ocean
@upbeat geode dont think you gain st by using gcds on other mobs
upbeat geode
ty
scarlet sequoia
bote major lucid minor vision minor
tropic ocean
Clf/lucid/iris-c&s or bote/lucid/vision if u go down
fathom wyvern
but then i dont want font as trinket if i run vision?
tropic ocean
Font is good
fathom wyvern
ye but it wont be up for each vendetta then
tropic ocean
wont matter you just want to use it for add anywayi if u go both adds font 1 coral other
fathom wyvern
yes
i have all trinkets
all "good" trinkets
,
would inkpod be better than font then?
pearl pagoda
inkpod typically only good when paired with corral unless youre doing it for a specific reason
pearl pagoda
just got in so im not totally knowlegable of the convo
but if its for zaqul
id say font would be bis
for zaqul i took inkod just because we needed it at the dmg check
fathom wyvern
we for sure gonna need boss dmg
is assa burst enough for add in realm you think without font?
distant lava
Do you go in for the 2 echos ?
arctic walrus
Coral/inkpod is a good combination. Inkpod will most likely line up with the damage boost
scarlet sequoia
i play inkpod/coral on zaqul
arctic walrus
distant lava
Do tel vel and raz what to play and why
arctic walrus
Yeah same
distant lava
pearl pagoda
i didnt respond to vel
pearl pagoda
responded to two echos question
scarlet sequoia
nah inkpod on azshara too
arctic walrus
Same same
distant lava
Assa burst is way more than high enough without font
arctic walrus
The yellow’s all grown up 
distant lava
drifting cloud
we will change his color
distant lava
What ?
drifting cloud
distant lava
arctic walrus
strange python
The pocket sized trinket on tyrannical week? Thoughts?
arctic walrus
I have my thoughts
strange python
Is it related to the question?
arctic walrus
None good
strange python
Ah gotcha
drifting cloud
didnt seli use it for a long time
not sure what he uses thesedays
maybe he was just missing a tf on another one
arctic walrus
It’s a bit front loaded but pretty sure a big inkpod can do more in terms of prio damage
strange python
I was doing 11 yesterday and boss fights, I lag behind.
arctic walrus
With or without it
strange python
Was running dice and radiance trinket
arctic walrus
Yeah not necessarily the best for sin
strange python
And still has about 14 haste
arctic walrus
This will also depend on your traits and essences
strange python
1xEB 1xBBI 1xTTK 3xSS
arctic walrus
Are you running iris
strange python
No bote
rigid mango
It's valuable on ST too as you're running fuckall haste so you'll have bunch of downtime
strange python
No, BotE
rigid mango
Cyclo is better than phial for sure.
strange python
In pure ST yes that I agree but I’m a bit hasitatant to lose all the agi
Yellow card is still 415 with crit haste
valid spoke
How come I see a lot of rogues running Inkpod instead of Font on azshara?
jolly comet
Notably, Season 4 also has a change that we’re making to the Quaking affix. Now, players can no longer damage themselves with this effect, and damage to nearby allies is increased from 20% to 40% of maximum health.
rigid mango
Seems very sin related.
buoyant hawk
vapid scarab
It is, because still playing this game and caring about updates is a SIN
native wind
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
cunning urchin
raidbots says to run undulating tides over double dose, I heard it was "sim bait", should I still run it?
arctic walrus
No you shouldn't
cunning urchin
Ok, i won't. Just curious, is it bugged on raidbots to proc more?
arctic walrus
It procs perfectly fine on raidbots and that's the issue. Realistically, it will be on cd often due to dropping below 50%
cunning urchin
understood, thanks for the info
scarlet sequoia
np
drifting cloud
ty raz
minor thicket
hey guys when im mid raid how do i properly use my font with vandetta and coral
so they are used all togehter
arctic walrus
prisma carbon
hello
is there a default talent/essence build that i should run if im going down on zaqul
arctic walrus
drifting cloud
deft nymph
lmao
arctic walrus
Okay spriest
deft nymph
i thought this was shadow channel lmoa
prisma carbon
hmmm
drifting cloud
leeching, bote major, lucid, vop
assuming you are going down both times, dont need vop if you only go once
vapid scarab
@prisma carbon some advice
Never go down on a minion of nzoth without brushing your teeth first
prisma carbon
is there any reason not to go down twice?
cobalt pelican
depends on your raid assignments
dark lantern
Since Inkpod is nature damage, does Inkpod benefit from Toxic Blade?
cobalt pelican
n o
cunning geyser
Hey yesterday on zaqul we have a destrolock in raid, but even though he doesn't come down after phase 4 I still get high amount of damage from his infernal. How come ? (he's not coming to delirium phase)
worldly iron
rigid mango
For those two only?
If that's the case, ask in #wow-general , if you want general wa's
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
little osprey
❤
rigid mango
Hm?
cobalt gyro
2.5x crit damage
cobalt gyro
yes
rigid mango
What the fuck?
Is it sin meta next tier?
3 eb ss mid combat restealths with insane crit damage for eb?
rigid mango
echo cargo
wat
cobalt gyro
full crit dmg is a bit dumb basically
rigid mango
Seems like inc nerf
cobalt gyro
i'm also under 60 corruption so i don't get the DMG taken increase debuff
rigid mango
bleak spoke
lusty narwhal
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
dark crag
Is the play to equip folly when using fok now?
rigid mango
Huh?
dark crag
The screenshot has folly proc
rigid mango
Yeah but when would u actually use that
cobalt gyro
thats mostly for memes
rigid mango
Unless you can constantly pull onto boss and even then that shit's whack.
dark crag
For trash in m+ maybe
dark crag
Ok gear is set in m+
rigid mango
dark crag
Thought weapons were allowed
dark crag
By accident?
young portal
Check the guide in the pins for opener^^
cobalt gyro
@rigid mango i thinkwe found a uh
"slight" dps increase of a bug
clarity just full resets tb
LUL
meager nebula
Did it reset vendetta too
cobalt gyro
yes
meager nebula
Amazing
halcyon roost
and cloak*
meager nebula
Best affix
cobalt gyro
monka
fathom wyvern
If i use cds for 2nd delerium on zaqul, are they up for delerium as last phase then?
If i run vision
young portal
If you use cds in second delirium (at 60%) with vision they wont be up again for the first echo in p4. If that's what you're asking
plain moon
depends if you're using in first or 2nd delirium
wide oracle
How big a deal is rank 3 Lucid over rank 2?
scarlet sequoia
388 versatility at neck lvl 70
distant lava
Ye it's around 60/70% uptime iirc
wide oracle
Oh snap okay
wide oracle
Yeah okay, just simmed it. It sims as a 1.1k increase
cloud sandal
anyone else have tanks that chainpull in m+?
often i have tanks that dont let me restealth
rigid mango
If he does it, tell him your 3 GCD's from stealth are more impactful than everyone else's combined
brave vector
^ I literally pulled my m+ tank to target dummy’s and showed him the difference between 3 gcds from stealth and without stealth. He’s been pretty good since
dark crag
Tell him you play assa and not sword swinging drooling yatzee gamble
echo hornet
any point in using bote lvl 2 major for now or it`s only giga as lvl 3?
arctic walrus
Nope only 3
echo hornet
😩 14k more till lvl 3
severe sedge
any good addon to show timer for bleeds on many targets?
got on nameplates, want a list
arctic walrus
Probably a weak aura for it
vestal wren
waxen cobalt
Is there any preference for essences to advance through? Like go for conflict and strife before bote3 due to the time gating?
rigid mango
Ofc you do the timegated stuff first
And then spend the time on the stuff that's just the grind
If you want to unlock all of them and be efficient
You'd probs prio lucid > strife > visions > grind
fervent jasper
You can get tank 4 visions probably faster than any other essence if you've got a good group
arctic walrus
Since vision takes like 3 weeks probably not the fastest
rigid mango
Yeah, dunno about that one.
arctic walrus
Blood is technically the fastest one to level
arctic walrus
rigid mango
You need to do everything up to rank 3 tho don't you?
fervent jasper
And you auto get r4
waxen nacelle
Your eyes might be bleeding when you're done
rigid mango
Pretty sure it's not?
Atleast you couldn't at the start.
Unless they've changed something.
scarlet sequoia
you cant talk to the man that gives rank 4 unless you have rank 3
waxen nacelle
Yeah I remember when the dungeon opened people were complaining they didn't get it
rigid mango
So they changed it?
Or was it like that from start
I've got conflicting opinions on wowhead.
manic cairn
!weakaura
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
Seems you're wrong, atleast were. If they've changed it that would be cool, which they might've but I doubt it.
You need r3 to get r4, as the dude doesn't give shit before you've got the achi + r3.
arctic walrus
Oh yeah actually. A personal experience, I had rank 1 when I did hertz and talking to the prince gave me no option until I got rank 3
distant lava
same
well no 
, I think it was the guild tank we did it with
he got rank 1 and hertz locker in the same run 
brave vector
So I was comparing some of my own logs with rogues that have top 10 parses and noticed pretty much all of them have elaborate planning and envenom buff uptime around 85% while mine usually sit around 70% what would be the most probable cause for this? Am I just not pooling in a way to allow for max uptime?
Does fight length have anything to do with it? Those parses have much faster kill times than mine
rigid mango
They probably pool/play around it or have shorter kill times
where you don't "need" to pool as much
as you're not dropping as low on shorter fights
Atleast less often.
brave vector
Would those be the 2 main causes? In which case I can pool perfectly but if my fight times don’t go down then there isn’t much else I can do is there?
Also for toxic blade use what’s the play if adds are about to spawn and tb just came off cooldown? Looking specifically at this Ashvane log. At 2:32 I use toxic blade and get 1 envenom off but it looks like bubbles spawn and I go off to rupture the bubbles instead of throwing another envenom up
rigid mango
You don't need to rupture bubbles
plush remnant
I have the belt, bracers, and gloves for benthic with a socket. All 420 ilvl. They aren't simming higher than my 430 socketed gear even with the naz option enabled in raidbots
brave vector
Well if bubbles aren’t dying I need to go rupture bubbles 😦
plush remnant
Aren't they supposed to be bis?
tropic ocean
@plush remnant tick the box that says ‚in nazjatar‘
plush remnant
I did
brave vector
Or do you mean I should only be putting envenoms into the bubbles?
tropic ocean
Do you have the correct benthic items?
plush remnant
Belt is 2% dmg
tropic ocean
Link sim as well
scarlet sequoia
your gloves are bis
plush remnant
Oh okay
tropic ocean
also your gloves are not normal but 440 azshara
plush remnant
They beat the benthic gloves?
tropic ocean
so yeah they are stronger
plush remnant
Gotcha
tropic ocean
ye
scarlet sequoia
unless a fight is just below 2 min, 4 min, 6 min etc etc the azshara gloves are better
plush remnant
Damn lol
Anyone have the id of the boots at a decent ilvl and socket?
Want to try simming it
worn basin
feet=,id=170141,gem_id=168639,bonus_id=6300/4802/6294/1512/4786
plush remnant
Which id controls the ilvl?
worn basin
I think the first number in the bonus
plush remnant
Found it. 4th number if anyone was interested
plush remnant
Does gear compare work for trinkets?
tropic ocean
For every item in the game
plush remnant
I tried using it for razor coral and always said it would be -500 dps
tropic ocean
In any ilvl u want
plush remnant
So not sure if I was using it correctly or
waxen nacelle
what ilvl coral
plush remnant
430
arctic walrus
We’re you simming it for the right slot
tardy ether
does evasion work for the ground tentacle slams in delirium on zaqul?
not the one coming from the outside
scarlet sequoia
cloak does, evasion no
strange python
wait the benthic belt works on orgo?
meager nebula
He's an aberration yes
bright tusk
Guys, I don't know what rings to use in m+.
I have simmed it with dungeon slice but the result is weird.
Here are my total stats and % with the different rings.
1935 (37%) Crit
667 (10%) Haste
1025 (38%) Mastery
300 (4%) Versatility
Total stats: 3927
1378 (29%) Crit
1201 (18%) Haste
660 (29%) Mastery
815 (10%) Versatility
Total stats: 4054
Raidbots is telling me to use the latter example of rings when I'm simming with dungeon slice.
But on here I've read that I should strive for high crit/mas and get rid of all haste
meager nebula
Dungeon slice isn't good for sin to use
arctic walrus
The first set is fine
bright tusk
Fine or way better though? O.o
bright tusk
Well okay then, thanks
rigid mango
dslice is bad for sin, like crit said
meager nebula
6t 40 seconds or something isn't it @rigid mango for sin
bright tusk
target dummy, 6 targets, 40 seconds?
meager nebula
Patchwerk
arctic walrus
Fuu's sim I believe is okay too
There just isn't a good way tbh
IT's either you use your brain, or throw a question towards us for advice
There's not much to really sim for
bright tusk
Alright alright, thanks for the input
rigid mango
I don't use it, nah
subtle tundra
anyone that tested the new affix can tell me if as soon as you press the obelix and enter the realm you get in combat? do you have time to stealth?
rigid mango
From what I've seen yeah, you can get mid combat restealths
steady owl
would 3ss 1bbi 1ttk 1eb be better than 3ss 2eb 1ttk this week with tyrannical?
jovial plover
What do I do if I have four combo points but garrote is on CD, just press Mutilate and waste the extra CP or do a 4 Point Envenom?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
arctic walrus
You finish at 4. In the first case, you also wouldn't refresh garrote if it's not within pandemic
rigid mango
If you're asking that question you'll probably have other fundamental issues
arctic walrus
Just for the cp
jovial plover
Thank you
tacit pebble
so with all these 3:30ish kill times my guild is getting right now, its def better to delay 2nd vendetta to be with clf yea
drifting cloud
correct
undone bobcat
drifting cloud
no
cobalt pelican
you can raid with 0 perfectly fine
true nexus
strange python
How to parse on azhara. Help pls
hidden bay
U get the buff 2 times ez 100log
granite rampart
spend phase 3 keeping boss, myrmidon, and whichever tidemistress youre killing dotted. after 8 kills, i feel like the buff only helps if you get it right at the end of the fight so you dont die. the damage the buff gives rogues isnt worth the time you spend dead.
also get lucky on 2nd decrees so you can keep hitting the boss
dense rose
Question
When doing M+ on Tyrannical Keys... Alot of people talk about.. Echoing Blades Is that something i can run 1 of? for M+ or am i trying for 3?
arctic walrus
You can have 1-3
dense rose
2 echoing.. 3 Double Dose at the moment?
arctic walrus
Oh yikes
dense rose
O.O for M+
arctic walrus
Drop dd immediately if you’re doing m+
dense rose
What should i look for then.. is it in the guide up there?
arctic walrus
Ss, eb, ttk
slate stone
Why Is it a damage gain when you Pool Energy to use envenom 2 times?
modest tendon
Elaborate planning talent
civic palm
Mostly you are getting/wanting to get as many things stacked as much as possible. So getting 2-3 ENV during a window of high +DMG nets better results than just getting the 1 ENV and maybe refreshing DoTs or moving, etc.
slate stone
Okay and do you Pool with 0 or with 4-5 combo points?
tropic ocean
doesn't matter as long as you dont overcap cp
you want to not overcap cp or energy and have 4+cp when tb comes of cd with close to max energy, how you design your pooling windows e.g. mutilate to 2 pool mutilate to 4 pool or mutilate to 4 and then pool is up to you
devout thicket
as a rogue going into second set of delirium portals (3 shadow priests going in first), which essences would you recommend? bote r3 + lucid r3, and the last one would be purification r1 or vop r1? do not have higher ranks of neither unfortunately yet
or should I recommend our RL for me to be sent before one of the SPs?
tropic ocean
the main question to define what you need to play (aka the 2 deliriums where adds are) if you go in both add deliriums u will need VOP to have vendetta for both adds, if you only go in for 1 add ur minor wont really matter and u should take ur highest dps one
if you only go in for 1 add clf major might be superior to bote as well
rigid mango
Depends a bit on what strat you're doing too, how cd's align and all
devout thicket
well, didn't get to talk to RL yet, but he changed his mind on his own - appears that I'll be going in first with 2 SPs after all
rigid mango
Are you burning from start or holding?
devout thicket
holding
I mean, our raid leader wanted us to burn 2 min CDs, and hold anything higher, but we only had a few pulls so far
this is what we were doing so far
tropic ocean
if u need to go into 1 psychotic split delirium use clf lucid and whatever ur best 3rd essence is
if u go into both use bote lucid vop
devout thicket
well, for sure I'll be going into first delirium set on p3, we haven't got further yet, as I've said, we only had a couple of pulls so far yesterday, I guess I will know more until Monday (next raid). we didn't get to p4 yet
drifting cloud
oh look its my guilds sheet
devout thicket
ok, good, now let me know what to do senpai 
prisma panther
Secret strats 
drifting cloud
I dont go into delirium before p4 so I cant really help you there
I guess those dont really matter anyways
civic palm
lol
devout thicket
but my understanding would be -> if i go into first delirium p3, then both splits in p4, then bote + vop, and If i go into only a single split, then CLF/whatever sims highest. correct?
tropic ocean
yes
the reasoning behind bote/vop is to have your essence and vendetta for both adds
which you don't need if u only go in for 1 add
devout thicket
ok, all clear now 
winter gale
If I have 4,5 more ppl with Loyal to the End trait should I go with 1 instead of 2nd Nothing Personal?
On Queen Azshara progress*
edgy pawn
tropic ocean
how do you have 4,5 more people
winter gale
Well, in raid of 20 few more ppl are having it and I have an option to switch one NP with it.
So I asked. But I will sim it
tropic ocean
oh what you wrote sounded like you have 4 and a half ltte
tropic ocean
in azshara is ltte is pretty good, as theres deaths that you can't prevent (console) so if a person with ltte dies everyone else gets another buff on top
so sim 1 ltte vs your 2np and if the difference is small I'd go with ltte
(probably ltte already will sim superior)
winter gale
Ty
Im at work atm so I aksed prior to simming just to see is it even considerable tbh
tropic ocean
it is yeah, the flat mastery buff from ltte already is very good and it just gets better when someone with it dies
(if that person isnt you :P)
vast forum
I have 2 loyals and when the raid wipes and i survive cuz cheat death/feint/cloak, i get 120% crit
Fun times :)
simple gulch
why do i sometiems get out of stealth
I use font
stealth
boss gets pulled and i somehow get out
?
scarlet sequoia
happens on orgozoa
its no big deal, if youre not afk you still get full value of MA or subterfuge
simple gulch
yeah it does happen on orgozoa
But I guess it happens sometimes because I sometimes use mutilate when im nto really in range
and the cahracter autp hits
gets me out of stealth
bright tusk
while the topic is on orgo, any rogue/sin cheeses you can do on that boss to increase dps?
worldly iron
3x EB and 3x Scent of Blood
just look at top logs for assassination on orgozoa and you'll get a good idea of how to cheese that fight
bright tusk
Any way a rogue can beat a dh down to second phase floor? I just use sprint, shadowstep on some dh far ahead and that's it, always so slow compared to those dh's
tropic ocean
jump over the hole
worldly iron
well, you don't really need to do that, but you can just jump down
watch out for the flying things so you don't get zapped and die
bright tusk
w8 what? "jump over the hole"
tropic ocean
u dont need to run down the way u can just jump from start to end
bright tusk
mind blown, what the heck. And survive how?
worldly iron
rather save cloak for the soak
tropic ocean
survive by not getting hit in air
vast forum
fuck the soak, cloak the jump 😄
worldly iron
vast forum
there are other immunity classes for the soak xD
bright tusk
I don't take fall damage and die from this fall?
worldly iron
if you choose to save like what, 10 seconds for basically no damage gain rather than solo soaking, I'd kick you off the team
bright tusk
I need to go check this jump thing out in hc or something
worldly iron
stomp soak
quasi pewter
why not just sprint after boss and continue dps? jumping down is dps loss tbh
bright tusk
that's amazing ^^ I will check this out
tropic ocean
after nerfs its not worth tho
scarlet sequoia
also no reason to attempt to jump unless you have inkpod or coral
tropic ocean
@scarlet sequoia did u kill ashvane without bl
scarlet sequoia
huh
scarlet sequoia
ah rofl
tropic ocean
do you think u can 1phase it?
scarlet sequoia
no
not unless u play 0 healers 1 tank
and even then u need every dps above like 60k dps
tropic ocean
yeah with 17 dps its 89k ~ per dps roughly
scarlet sequoia
even after nerfs?
tropic ocean
yeah
105.6m hp
lower dps per dps depending on how much dmg tank and 1 heal can do but
scarlet sequoia
yeah dont think thats happening
tropic ocean
so if tanks do 30k each and disc doing 30k still over 80k dps
worldly iron
scarlet sequoia
shh
shy axle
How was the opener in m+ for St with bote again (3 SS/2Eb/1TK)? Cant find it and cant remember if it was a !command in discord or in a guide
chilly shadow
Quick noob question: I've been fiddling with outlaw for its M+ potential (mainly to get quick M+ invites so I can learn them better) but interested in assassination for raid invites to improve gear...do I need daggers instead of swords/axes/maces?
chilly shadow
And not a fist weapon?
fervent jasper
Correct
arctic walrus
you need a dagger in both hands in order to use mutilate
fervent jasper
Daggers are all you can use
chilly shadow
don't be condescending
thank you @fervent jasper
mutilate being the CP builder for assassinate, yes?
fervent jasper
Yea
rigid mango
Main one, yeah.
fervent jasper
If you have at least 1 echoing blades trait (which you should), you use Fan of Knives on 2+targets as your main builder. On Single target though you use mutilate
chilly shadow
weapon damage a big factor? like could I use 385 daggers for the time being? Or should I stick with outlaw till I have 2 415s?
rigid mango
Weapons matter a lot.
chilly shadow
so DPS gonna suck til I have those huh
rigid mango
For any melee class mainhand weap ilvl is a huge factor.
fervent jasper
You're probably fine to use a low ilvl weapon in the off hand
But your mainhand should be a higher ilvl
chilly shadow
I didn't know if poisons overcame that or something like that, my main is a mage and my #1 alts are also ranged
rigid mango
Yeah, weaps matter a fuckton for melee classes.
chilly shadow
BoEs worth looking at?
fervent jasper
Just farm underrot for daggers
As outlaw
You'll get ome quick enough
Underrot drops your BiS dagger for m+
Although of you get another dagger at a higher item level then you should always use best item level in your main hand
chilly shadow
oh sweet, worst dungeon in history
fervent jasper
Stats only matter in offhand
chilly shadow
lost me on that one, you mean weapon damage of offhand is less important?
fervent jasper
Significantly
rigid mango
UR is the best dungeon in the game currently dunno what u mean
fervent jasper
Off hand weapon dps is fuck all. In season 2 outlaw rogues were using an offhand weapon from Icecrown Citedel
Because it had a crazy proc
rigid mango
Off hand matters more for sockets.
chilly shadow
LOL wow no kidding
I love that kind of shit tho, the ingenuity of the WoW community
rigid mango
And/or effects such as bile/folly for outlaw
chilly shadow
so that dagger from UR is good b/c crit/mast?
rigid mango
It's good for m+, yeah.
It's also a fast and good dungeon to do
TD has the best ST dagger, probably.
arctic walrus
Only if it rolls low corruption and crit dmg 
neon tendon
Hello my fellow assassins, do you guys hold onto tb after you casted font for your vendetta?
so font > coral > vendetta > tb > vanish
modest tendon
Yes?
rigid mango
That sequence is wrong.
modest tendon
You need to have a full tb envenom spam inside your vendetta window
neon tendon
i always used font then waited until coral was up then vendetta and i make sure to go with full combo points into vanish
neon tendon
so font > 14sec > vendetta > 6sec > coral > tb > vanish`?
rigid mango
You can TB and vanish at any given point post vend
With the dps gain/loss being very minimal
But yes, essentially that.
Koji tried moving it around and just found it to do +- 0 change to overall outcome.
neon tendon
the loss is only very minimal, good 2 know
ye then ill try to improve that
Thanks a lot
nimble skiff
What is the lowdown on 100 talents for m+?
Ravenholdt says poison bomb but i've see some higher IO rogues using echoing
rigid mango
Just use PB
strange python
Hey is assa still good in Raid?
edgy pawn
yes
fathom wyvern
is SS traits a must for m+?
rigid mango
Yes
fathom wyvern
well fck me then xD
rigid mango
There's basically no reason to play sin atm in m+ without any SS
Granted, the meta build is to run 3 SS.
slate stone
What Is ss?
rigid mango
Shrouded suffocation
slate stone
Okay i thougt echoing blades would be best 😅
rigid mango
EB is really good too
slate stone
Why does ss sims so bad?
arctic walrus
It doesn’t?
slate stone
I was looking on bloodmallet
rigid mango
Herodamage > bloodmallet
And hecticaddcleave is a horrible metric to sim off of (:
Don't rely on those sims for quite literally anything.
slate stone
Haven’t been on herodamage for a while since they don’t have tank sims anymore
Thanks for the infos
shy axle
how do you use the 2nd bote in S-fights when vendetta/vanish are still on cd? Get 5 cp -> bote - Env and just go on the normal way?
rigid mango
In uhh, S fights?
rigid mango
You align it to vend.
shy axle
even if it is ~ 30 sec to keep bote?
rigid mango
Yep
shy axle
ok good to know, thanks
what was the number of targets where Fok Spamm > finisher ? 5 with 3 Eb and 6 with 2?
rigid mango
3 eb 6t, 2 eb 8t, 1 eb 10t
Numbers might change dependant on your stats, traits and such
But those are the "theoretical" numbers
That's for maximum dps output, not maximum value necessarily.
vestal wren
crit impacts it a lot
tawdry wagon
What is preferred for m+? 3 ss / 3 eb, or 3 ss / 2 eb / 1 ttk?
vast forum
depends on dungeon and what your grp needs
vestal wren
3ss 3eb might be the best pick overall
vast forum
kinda bad in KR tbh 😛
modest tendon
im finding nowadays eb to be a much smaller portion of my damage than it used to be, is it still worth taking 3eb in such a case?
modest tendon
would you argue for 3 eb in kr and tos ausgelebt?
tropic ocean
no
i would argue against
😄
maybe 1 eb, but i think 3 ss bbi and other traits if u have right pieces are superior
kr probably one of best sin dungeons
modest tendon
largely because of ss
gritty yew
yo
tropic ocean
yeah ss carries
gritty yew
quick question for rogue mains
modest tendon
hey tyr
gritty yew
conflict and strife, yay or nay
gritty yew
fucksake i hate pvp why do i have to do this
distant lava
yay for m+ sin, can be good for outlaw but VoP is almost as good with no downside, for sin raids depends on your stats
modest tendon
go pp or crucible
modest tendon
which benefits ss 😛
nimble skiff
I'm seeing all three t100 talents by top assination rogues in m+
tropic ocean
its down to week/ur dungeon/ur traits
poison bomb is just no brainer and all traits are close to each other so
if u like more proactive gameplay use ct if not go with pb
modest tendon
pb most balanced
modest tendon
all 3 viable
tropic ocean
3ss for sure
nimble skiff
So stealth x3 garrotes -> fan of knives spam, ruptures when garrotes start falling off? Or do I have the aoe rotation off?
Let's say for like, 5 targets
tropic ocean
uhm
brave vector
I believe it’s ggg > r > fok > envenom priority targets
brave vector
And then maintain 4 ruptures after your garrotes fall off
tropic ocean
yes sir
nimble skiff
the 'r' being a rupture?
nimble skiff
Sweet.
brave vector
Indeed
tropic ocean
like if everything in pack will die soon, might as well just spam fok instead of redot
nimble skiff
And do you only envenom if you're focusing a priority target?
brave vector
Well you generally don’t need more than 4 ruptures up to maintain energy
tropic ocean
I do envenom on priority
brave vector
So I think it’s slightly more optimal to just start using envenom after those are up?
tropic ocean
or if the pull is not big enough for fok to be superior overall wise
tawdry wagon
I think you can get away with 3, but 4 is usually safer.
tropic ocean
like if its 4 target I will just build with fok and finish with envenom
for example
brave vector
Basically maintain 4 bleeds and than spam fok and envenom into a priority target
Your 4 bleeds being gggr and then rrrr after your subterfuge garrotes run out
inner wedge
Hello
Is there a write up on BIS azerite gear?
tropic ocean
for raiding st : zaqul helmet, gorak tul's shoulder and blackwater behemoth chest(if your raid has 4 loyals), cephalohide jacket, if not
inner wedge
With blight infusion?
arctic walrus
2 dd 1ttk 1 np 1 bbi 1 loyal
inner wedge
sim says 3dd 1 np 1 loyal 1 ttk is better and 3 OPower
tropic ocean
how u get 3 dd
arctic walrus
Zaq gorak ceph
I think
That will probably be better for you until you get blackwater. At which point it’ll free up the loyal slot from your helmet, allowing you to pick up np, which frees up your shoulders for bbi
inner wedge
cephalohide has dd + ttk + op
I have both chests and helm and gorak....so hard to choose:)
tropic ocean
hes actually correct @arctic walrus
even with using np in shoulders instead of bbi and ltte in helm cephalohide is superior
arctic walrus
A high mastery will push blackwater down, I can agree with that. However, the 100 damage decrease over ceph does not consider the death proc of loyal, which can tremendously add weight to it
Yeah see, loyal is 50 damage behind for you. If someone dies, you get a lot more out of it
inner wedge
well, they are not suppose to die:)
arctic walrus
Sooooooooo you’re gonna notice the 50 damage increase of ceph because your group is immortal and plays perfectly 
nimble tinsel
That's also just false, see Azshara fight for example of unavoidable deaths.
inner wedge
btw those 445 socket gloves are from heroic:) kaaa ching
brave vector
He’s still using loyal to the end in his top gear so I’m confused what the issue is, he’s not using BBI?
arctic walrus
This is “bis” and it’s only 50 behind for him
Bbi will have a higher top end range
Something being that marginally ahead I wouldn’t classify as “that good”
inner wedge
i mean 3rd dd is 150 dps better compared to 2nd dd
brave vector
This actually came up with another rogue in my group yesterday. Does the 3rd DD not provide more uh, I guess consistent damage vs BBI?
vast forum
i'm having the eternal dilemma
do i gamble 2x shoulders hoping for gorak tul's
or do i save for specific
but i also need a ss helm for m+ so it's not like i have nothing else to spend on
i'll save for 1 mythic piece anyway
not more than that
only 66k but i could DE like 6 450 pieces in my bags
so i can roll 2x shoulders
should be fine
arctic walrus
Are you going to need shoulders now, or in 4 weeks
vast forum
are there good pvp shoulders?
i was also looking to avoid using radiance shoulder in raids
as assa
but i'm inclined to agree
saving for next tier might be worth
valid spoke
Would you rather run a 445 Inkpod over a 430 Font for mythic Azshara?
polar cape
Font if you want add dmg inkpod if you want last phase dmg imo
raven gull
Maybe this is a stupid question, but any tips on when i shall use my toxic blade?
Good to setup dots first then pool for envenoms, is that correct?
raven gull
Alright thanks 🙂
heavy rover
@raven gull u Want to have rupture and garote on and be close to full energy and 3-4 cp
wild lily
is there a way to make it so this does vanish>envenom with nightstalker talented + bote
tawdry radish
hey guys why does my rogue officer do no damage? any quick tips that I can tell him to improve?
harsh sphinx
he should prob learn the rotation / opener
arctic walrus
Wow there's so much to unpack here
harsh sphinx
he's playing sub but not running SS
tawdry radish
I think hes playing assassination
harsh sphinx
sry the talent subterfuge
rancid bobcat
zero (0) benthic
arctic walrus
Wrong essences, subterfuge with no SS, no benthic, horribly opener, bad bleed uptime, overcapping on CP with mut, caping energy, his cooldown usage is all over the place
If this guy has a leadership role I seriously wish you the best.
drifting cloud
9 kills with 29 highest parse 
harsh sphinx
ya pretty much all of that
arctic walrus
Not a single cd is paired up, he needs to read, re-read, then re-re-read a guide on the spec
This is like, even someone with a brain can understand to a minimum at least
There is nothing good to say about this dude's play, sorry
If deadweight was a country, our boy pickpock here would be president
olive egret
@wild lily i don't have the answer to your question, but is that from warcraftlogs? The way those abilities are listed in that pic
muted cove
for m+ trinkets is Coral and Phial of the Arcane Tempest good to use?
arctic walrus
Phial's not that great, what are your other options
@olive egret that's from raidbots under the ability log drop down menu
muted cove
I have Galecallers, Harlans, Inkpod, and Spyglass
arctic walrus
Probably spyglass then
muted cove
its only 425 since i got it at the end of s2, but the others are 430 and phial is 445
strange python
Alright so
I'm relatively new to rogue
And I'm having trouble deciding between sin and sub
arctic walrus
You have the choice of playing one of the best specs in the game, or one of the worst
muted cove
What’re you looking to do mainly?
arctic walrus
also #wow-general
zenith blaze
Hey guys, just started playing rogue like a couple of weeks ago, but I have one little thing that's bugging me. My sims turn out to be really low dps. Now Im sure that I am not a pro rogue if anything so let's just leave the ingame stuff out of it. Could someone take a look at my gear and tell me some stuff? Because currently Im ilvl 436 and simming 35k.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/waJikTbFGn3Wgqfu9a2DLB
Since Im not playing that long my essences are low level or non existant yet, Im working on the correct ones
Oh and yes I am working on benthic gear
drifting cloud
you have 2 bad azerites, and shoulders should have loyal instead of scent(dont forget to enable it in sims), when you get clf3 and put it in major slot and 1 if not both raid trinkets
just that is going to increase your dmg by alot
probably close to 10k combined with a benthic item or two
you have an aoe trait in your helm, thats 0 dps on st
opal minnow
Raid trinkets also pretty huge too
zenith blaze
With the bad azerites you mean the essences?
opal minnow
No. The helm+ chest have suboptimal traits
actually all of them do, but echoing blades on the helmet does nothing for ST
and scent similarly does basically nothing for st
zenith blaze
So what would be my best bet to increase it, next week just run heroic and get some of those azerites?
drifting cloud
you want fish chest, zaqul helm, theres also alot of decent ones you can gamble at 445
opal minnow
socketed benthic boots and waist when you can-its grindy and rng but it makes a big difference
tidal drifter spaulders are decent as well and come from raid
zenith blaze
@opal minnow and for m+? because I reckon I need other stuff for that and
opal minnow
Other than that-i'd focus on getting raid trinkets. they're a lot stronger than dungeon trinkets this tier
zenith blaze
Sadly Im uncurved and I'm with a casual guild
But I've been trying to get curve for a couple of days now
Since I only need azhara, that should make life easier
opal minnow
Coral from ashvane should be easy to get
zenith blaze
I'll reroll on that one then 😄
Would a normal drop from coral increase my dps also?
opal minnow
Probably. i rocked a 420 one for quite a while and i had 440 dungeon trinkets.
drifting cloud
it would be a small upgrade most likely
you can always see in gear compare, but coral is a must have for assa
zenith blaze
Im currently also working on getting blood of my enemy, that sounds like a really strong one
opal minnow
CLF at rank 3 will be better than blood
zenith blaze
And for m+?
drifting cloud
yeah its bis for m+
opal minnow
its good for keys, yes
zenith blaze
Okay fair enough
opal minnow
Iris isn't a horrible substitute though
zenith blaze
Last question, I've been researching stat priorities yesterday
I came across some of the top sin players and I saw in 1 build crit/mastery and 1 build crit/haste and online I only read crit/haste. It got me quite curious
Do you know why he would opt in going mastery
Is that like a massive AOE m+ build?
opal minnow
haste does fall off with mass aoe because of multi dot energy regen
drifting cloud
you dont want haste in m+, for raids all the stats are really close so mostly just depends on your current gear but ilvl is going to win majority of the time
opal minnow
IMO- i wouldn't put a lot of stock into stat weights so long as you do top gear sims in raidbots
drifting cloud
also mechagon ring set is really strong for raiding at baseline 415
zenith blaze
Thanks so much guys, really appreciate it
nimble mesa
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
zenith blaze
Oh I forgot about one thing, weapon enchants!
I currently have force multiplier in my main hand and deadly navigation in my off-hand, but I saw someone use quick navigation and deadly navigaton
frail current
is ass viable for m+ ?
main blaze
People think you HAVE to be outlaw to do m+
but Assn does well if you have the right traits
tropic ocean
usually you dont wanna be with the groups that kick u for sin anyway
cuz they trash
modest tendon
The only people who ever notice or care what rogue spec I’m playing are usually other rogues, I don’t see any point playing outlaw until 20+ anyway
lethal heart
you can play assa in 20+
but its combination of many things
on average outlaw will outperform assa
but 'on average' isnt the greatest metric for everything :^)
modest tendon
Outlaw is safer that’s the only reason why I play it, assa is fine at every level of play, outlaw is just slightly more likely to push the key
timber meadow
any chance someones willin to take a quick look at my logs from a commander pug i just did - not so focused on the dmg or wtvr cause it was an absurdly long/scuffed pull but just picked up assasin this past month for azshara and wanna just see if there are any leaks i can plug/stupid shit im doin
arctic walrus
Yeah
bright tusk
Should I use dribbling inkpod against Ashvane?
If so, should it replace 430 Font of power or 445 Razer coral?
430 inkpod
nimble mesa
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
bright tusk
?
rigid mango
Are you doing 2 phase or normal strat?
feral shuttle
Inkpod is very strong if you are 3 shielding Assvane.
I'd run inkpod and coral but it kind of depends which strat.
bright tusk
2 Burn phases is what we're trying currently
60%~ first burn, and then kill on second burn.
So I'm wondering if it's good with dribbling inkpod, but I haven't tried it yet.
drifting cloud
Font is better, fight too short for inkpod
Maybe since you can get coral stacks with the proc alot easier the difference is probably pretty small because of more consistenc ink crits.
rigid mango
60% on first burn is way low dps for 2 phasing me thinks
vast forum
it's fine if you lust 2nd phase i think
rigid mango
What were we on when we did it? I think we barely scraped 50% right?
I suppose it depends more on amount of exec classes
rigid mango
Yeah but we barely got it first times right?
rigid mango
Yeah I suppose.
rigid mango
Huh?
feral shuttle
You don't break the second set of corals, so lusting after the second shield makes more sense as there is less movment=more dps
crisp steppe
yeah I think thats how you do it if you are progressing on it. for speedkills you push boss in 1st p2 to get into execute range
rigid mango
Yeah I mean ofc, if you have the damage to do 65% of boss hp you do it
Regardless of exec or not
We're at that stage atm so all the exec classes sky rocket
bleak dune
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
timber meadow
is there an amount of time where it's worth to hold envenom for tb?
like if i have 1 second until tb comes up, is it worth to just overcap with mutilates for the global before or wtvr?
ive been just spending the envenom and then hitting tb but that may be from my outlaw days of just pressing stuff on cd
timber meadow
yeah I could also just overcap energy
distant lava
Yeah then you envenom then tb
timber meadow
if my energy is lowish pooling is prob the best option
if im at or near max
it's better to overcap energy than overcap cp with mut?
distant lava
You have to remember Mut casts during TB do a lot of dmg too
timber meadow
if im near max energy then just spend
distant lava
Assuming you have some DD traits