assassination

[rigid mango]

What?

[vestal wren]

just some shower thoughts

[shut garnet]

wdym tho

didnt you say the same thing twice?

[rigid mango]

^

[vestal wren]

oh more context

[shut garnet]

or do you mean it WAS optimal to use env every so often

[vestal wren]

ttk was assumed to be the best trait and 3x ttk was a fixed trait

[shut garnet]

for the chance to proc PB?

ya 3ttk 2eb 1ss i remember s2 meta

[vestal wren]

so, if you in general dont rly want to use env but use 3 traits that only benefit from env it seems inefficient

[shut garnet]

yeah i guess thats why most ppl switched to 2/2/2 towards the end

[rigid mango]

The thing is ttk was good on the basis of the pull counts were big enough

That you could get full CP from one fok

And pump fok > env > fok > env

Reaping damage was irrelevant

But the pulls were bigger before beguiling yeah

[vestal wren]

hmm, so the discussion is if there where enough groups/pulls where it would be benefitial to take inefficient traits for the majority of pulls of the rest of the dungeon

[rigid mango]

Well, a lot of packs, reaping included, had 1-3 bigger dudes

rest died or you didn't care about the damage on them

So you played around doing damage to the targets that "needed to die" first, or quicker

Because everything'd die eventually

And in reaping you had a bunch of chainpulling

So SS lost a lot of value

TTK isn't the best trait, it was just the best one on the basis of doing what you wanted w/out a big flaw

[vestal wren]

yes, i just liked that perspective of EB where you start to maintain energy income

[tropic ocean]

ttk was bad for overall

but very good for killing down the hard mobs

like the witch doctor or zerkers in kr for example

or marksman in siege and so on

[rigid mango]

Ye, whatever the scenario

Most packs have something that wants to die first

or a bigger healthpool

So TTK was the most efficient way of dealing with it

[tropic ocean]

there was several high rio rogues in s2 that just played 3 ss 3eb all the time and blast

but it didnt bring much benefit to the group

[vestal wren]

i mean

[tropic ocean]

cuz when u have outlaw or dh or bm hunter blasting already might as well use something that makes life easier

[vestal wren]

if like zine was saying around 3 targets per pull needed to be burned down

ss makes sense i guess

[tropic ocean]

theres usually 1 or 2 in mostly that are prioritized over rest

usually caster mobs

[rigid mango]

yeah but you chainpulled a fuckton

[tropic ocean]

but with reaping and 3 eb meta ss didnt have much value as u just kept pulling over and over and pulling reaping into packs and so

u cant/dont do that with beguiling

[fathom wyvern]

so on a fight light orgozoa if you want to maximize boss dmg do you run more masteryt less haste since you can rupture ads?

or do you run normal ST gear setup

[rigid mango]

Like there was so many times you'd just keep on pulling

[tropic ocean]

just normal st

[rigid mango]

with no issue

Now with beguiling you have obvious downtime and lower pull sizes

so SS is amazing

[tropic ocean]

and since most of ur dmg came from eb the restealth werent as problematic as u just prebleed before chain

to not have energy issues

now u cant chainpull as good anymore as with emissary u need to control so much stuff

especially with anti cc emissaries

[vestal wren]

i wounder how well you could min/max the restealths/vanishes there

btw. i am not saying ttk is or was bad

[tropic ocean]

from max dps perspective it was

and for nowadays dungeons unless tank is completely braindead u have not really issues with restealthing

as u have downtime between pulls compared to s2

a lot

and u just need a sec for restealth anyway

[restive orchid]

What are our best in slot essences?

[vestal wren]

!essences

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[grave elk]

What are the bis essences for sin in raid?

[rigid mango]

clf + lucid iris

[fathom wyvern]

Is it worth dotting ads with rupture on orgo if youre supposed to go full boss dmg?

like, are the 3 globals for ads covered up by the dmg you lose on going boss by energy regen?

[vestal wren]

prio keeps up 5 bleeds,
2 bleeds -> maintains only 2 bleeds (so garrote + rupture on main target)
mut -> uses fok to maintain poison
only_mut -> don't uses fok

sims:
normal: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fNenFzW8BJTHCXak9nNQzz/simc
2 bleeds: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bD3CpNyQaXifiWVHxBqCi9/simc
Overall Damage || Damage to prio target

TL;DR: play it st if you want to get most prio damage

But there are adjusted ones where you only lose a minimal amount of prio but gain a lot overall

[dire spoke]

[grave elk]

what prepot is bis?

[arctic walrus]

unbridled

[grave elk]

damn really

[scarlet sequoia]

yes

[untold current]

What are ppl simming these days? Im still hovering around 51k

[rigid mango]

52.5+ is optimised

[arctic walrus]

Upper ranges of bis reach into +55k

[untold current]

Ya'll have an example of 55 you can link?

[vestal wren]

how big are packs averagely with current affix?

[latent gazelle]

Wait for Raz

[arctic walrus]

I sure know someone who’d love to give you that info

[rigid mango]

Raz'll be here in a second to post it

[untold current]

post plz raz

[vestal wren]

5 iirc?

[latent gazelle]

It’s someone’s screen saver

[arctic walrus]

Like what do you want to know though

He has bis + sockets here and there

[latent gazelle]

^^

[untold current]

just what wf/tf pieces i should be aiming for. I have bis azerite

and pretty good daggers

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w7Vhcc7kAwNFDc5GbGpMev

[latent gazelle]

Hard to aim for wf/tf

[arctic walrus]

Aiming for wf/tf

[tropic ocean]

@vestal wren 5-6mostly y

[latent gazelle]

If only lol

[arctic walrus]

[untold current]

actually im missing head from zaq, since no kill

so 2/3

[arctic walrus]

you don't have bis azerite, you don't have mechagon rings, and you're running ct

and your daggers are not good

and you're not 70

and you have a heroic font

[untold current]

omg, CT

[vestal wren]

how long are the packs?

like how long do they survive

[untold current]

no wonder i wasnt pumping as hard last night

[drifting cloud]

and you have abby belt

[untold current]

is threat belt better for non abbos?

[scarlet sequoia]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fBQ89mVrJ7YVgNvxoUfpRD not 55k but almost

[drifting cloud]

[scarlet sequoia]

@ whoever asked

[latent gazelle]

Threat doesn’t matter to a rogue

We’re like kids. We have trix

[drifting cloud]

raz had to run the sim 10 times and couldnt get it 55

[latent gazelle]

Lol

[untold current]

thx for the feedback guys

[scarlet sequoia]

hell no that one is a few days old

[arctic walrus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rEw6t9i2VzKmK1rRSmtda

remember when we were close in damage

[scarlet sequoia]

nope 🙄

[arctic walrus]

I dont

[drifting cloud]

wheres the lw pants

[arctic walrus]

yea no thanks

[latent gazelle]

I stuck in the high 50k low 51k range 😩

[scarlet sequoia]

i simmed 50k before 65 neck

[drifting cloud]

[arctic walrus]

we all did though

[scarlet sequoia]

no just me

[arctic walrus]

fine yup just yo

[latent gazelle]

Lol someone took all the luck from rngesus

[arctic walrus]

nice base coral loser

[scarlet sequoia]

😭

[latent gazelle]

Lol

[arctic walrus]

would still be 200 off with a 445 hole font

oh interesting, one socket on my mecharing is 400 alone

[drifting cloud]

that doesnt sound right

[arctic walrus]

okay It may have been on dslice

BUT

[drifting cloud]

your best stat is probably 6? so 300 dps

[arctic walrus]

still 300

[fathom wyvern]

does deadly poision give energy?

or is it only rup / garrote

[rigid mango]

Read venemous wounds

[fathom wyvern]

right

ty

[vestal wren]

hmm

why is ma not played in m+?

is it bc. of iron wire?

[arctic walrus]

subterfuge

is on the same row

[vestal wren]

yes i know

[sudden schooner]

55k

I just got past 54k

[outer hearth]

because you get constant restealths and garrote becomes big dmg

[drifting cloud]

because with ss subt already beats ma on st, on mt its not even close

[outer hearth]

it's gonna be big sad when ss is gone :((

[arctic walrus]

Just keep a piece of azerite on

[vestal wren]

i just did some ttk/ss sims thats why i asked

so, they do reflect the ss meta with smaller pulls (5 target sim)

but with higher target counts (like bigger pulls or reaping) ttk becomes a good pick
but only with the constraint to go with MA

my sims show this on 8 targets:

3ttk 3eb - MA (not played) - 151,5k dps(+11%), 58,1k prio(+8%)```

to be clear i did not use blood major in the sim, but s2 did not have those essences at all

[jolly spoke]

is Bethic gear still simming higher than higher itemlevel gear now?

[vestal wren]

yes, esp. with socket its quite unbeatable

[jolly spoke]

i have the gear but not with sockets. RNG jesus doesnt like me.

[vestal wren]

you need to sim it then

[scarlet sequoia]

@arctic walrus https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eSaWK6m4HSSaVAPRvNv1Gd

there we go

[arctic walrus]

[tropic ocean]

@vestal wren some rogue played sin with ma in mdi but

he was non competitive iirc

its high burst but just not good overall

[vestal wren]

this or last season?

as in sims 3ss is not significantly ahead

thats like 2% lower median but with a higher minimum and maximum

what should come out to be about equal

it also seems to be quite constant when raising the sim duration (1 min -> 4 mins)

for prio (3ss3eb subter vs 3ttk3eb ma)

[tropic ocean]

S2 mdi

what do these sims do? And how many targets/what stats

[vestal wren]

8 targets 1 min/4 min

as mentioned earlier last seasons affix had a high mob count always

[tropic ocean]

maybe my memory wasnt accurate but he played ma in sots on mdi and was behind rest dmg wise

[vestal wren]

i mean, the go-to was 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss

and that one sims lower

[tropic ocean]

does the sim restealth to regarrote 3 targets on 4 min?

should run it for 4-5 targets

For current season

[vestal wren]

its a multi target sim

i run 5 targets earlier and 3ss 3eb are better on lower target counts

i just thought it would be nice to look at higher target counts esp. with reaping comming to mdi

[tropic ocean]

Im talking bout ma vs subter

For overall i dont need a sim to know eb beats ttk

[vestal wren]

ttk is not compatitive on lower target counts

iirc

so there wouldnt be a reason to pick it

[tropic ocean]

Ma vs subter is the interesting thing for me

[vestal wren]

thats a diffrent discussion tho^^

knock yourself out:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5xQD3jjUgeUF8JRbE4jyJj/simc

would need to see if blood essence makes a diffrence

[rigid mango]

So bleed wins all the time or what

[tropic ocean]

? With what essence are these simmed

[vestal wren]

moment, running it with 2eb 1 ss 3 ttk

[rigid mango]

idk what these sims are

I've got no clue what the diff is

[tropic ocean]

What essence did the sims use

[vestal wren]

the standard t24 ones, so clf major + lucid minor i assume

[tropic ocean]

well useless sim then 😛

[vestal wren]

not nessecerly for the purpose

but well we can change gear/azerite tomorrow to fit your purpose

[rigid mango]

so these sims imply setting up only 2 bleeds compared to regular 5 is a 2k dps loss?

[vestal wren]

no?

well, again lets continue this tomorrow hence the intresst is diffrent in evaluation here
(and i am tired)

[rigid mango]

so 2nd on dps is the standard one?

Standard keep 5 bleeds up yadda yadda

[distant lava]

looks like those are all 2 bleeds

[rigid mango]

ye idk

[vestal wren]

i used a regex to replace the strings, so default got wrong labeling

[rare pond]

on m court, if you're assigned to silivaz, do you still run over and maintain dots on pashmar?

[rigid mango]

If you're assigned to silivaz

[tropic ocean]

@rare pond just with step

[rigid mango]

Doesn't that kinda explain itself tho?

[tropic ocean]

Or when bosses are moved

Thats the moments u use to multidot

[rigid mango]

I can't interpret what those sims are supposed to say

[tropic ocean]

Its overall + prio with different setups

[rigid mango]

yah but idk what the diff setups are

[vestal wren]

thats why i did abstract in the initial discussion, ausgelebt just had a diffrent interesst so i did a sim for him... that seems confusing

[tropic ocean]

Should continue here tomorrow with different eseences

[vestal wren]

^

[tropic ocean]

Very interesting though

Ty fuu

[vestal wren]

i can fix labling too then ^^

[rare pond]

thank ye

[chilly marsh]

would be nice to see the bean vs blood in those sims too

[tropic ocean]

@rare pond essentially for max dps when u refresh dots on ur current target u shadowstep to pashmar and stay with hil until shadowstep is up again and do the same

[vestal wren]

clf vs beam vs blood

esp. to see how ma + blood work together (might need to adjust apl slightly for that too)

[chilly marsh]

m+ im using more blood now think its better not needing to stop to cast beam

[rare pond]

interesting

thanks, the other rogue in my team had more damage than I did, while being more evenly split between pash and sil, so I was curious

[vestal wren]

you can cast beam during movement

so its not as bad

[rare pond]

you use iris on this fight over clf?

[dark crag]

No

[chilly marsh]

yea but you cant use skills

trade off

[dark crag]

They talk m+

Raid is clf or blood major in later fights

[rare pond]

ok lol I was confused for a sec

[tropic ocean]

Clf for sure in queens

Multidot whenever u can

Spark n pashmar

[cobalt gyro]

you can almost constantly have 2+ dots rolling in queens

[untold current]

When simming Zaqul, do I run anything special? standard patchwerk, 4 target, hectic add?

[chilly marsh]

you prob ignore adds

and spank the fucking boss

at least is what im doing ... 28% prog at moment

[untold current]

literally just got on the boss

[chilly marsh]

yea

SP and mages burn adds

[untold current]

ill run the bote + vision for double vendetta on echoes

[chilly marsh]

dont knwo if its worth it

[buoyant hawk]

If you are doing both echos then it’s definitely worth

Bote + lucid + VoP

[chilly marsh]

its kind of weird becasue have better class to do it

[strange python]

Guys it's ok too play all time between 0 and 50 of energy?

Cause If i don't have my CD i'm always low

[arctic walrus]

You shouldn't be starving yourself like that

If you have bleeds up and a few seconds on envenom buff, just sit on your energy and points

[strange python]

Oh so maybe i just spam too much? cause it's true when my bleed's are up i just do 2xMutilate and Enveom

[arctic walrus]

yeah imagine you crit mut and are at 4 points, and you just envenomed

It has 5-6 seconds left on the buff, so that is an instance where you just pool are let the buff drain and envenom either before it falls off, or you are about to cap energy

[strange python]

Ok i will try to let those 4 5 sec of envenom fade and re mut+env

[grave elk]

does dh buff apply to sin? since poisons are nature dmg right?

[hazy geyser]

i dont think so

[vast forum]

it does ofc

[tropic ocean]

@cobalt gyro im not sure its a gain though if you waste 2 gcd walking to other mob

[cobalt gyro]

Depends if you're capping on energy or not

[winter gale]

Hello guys. I wanted to ask u something. I have 15k more to get Blood of the Enemy rank 3 for Mythic Azshara but I am not that good with time since I work full time. Is it a significant dps loss to play Condensed Life Force Major/ Lucid Dreams + Focusing Iris Minors instead?

If its better I can push some time into it and try to get it.

[vast forum]

blood is better but it's by no means mandatory

[sudden schooner]

You don't need blood for it, CLF will work fine

[vast forum]

depending on your grp comp and damage profile, CLF might even be better

[sudden schooner]

After nerfs it actually might be better just to focus more dmg into azshara, and use CLF tbh

You'll need less burst for the tideministresses after nerf anyhow

[vast forum]

nerfs are coming on wednesday tho 😄

[icy sedge]

whats a good benthic piece to get first for an aspiring raider rogue ? i believe the shoulders have good sims but ive been told by a friend to never buy azerite benthic pieces, bc too expensive and get replaced easily

[scarlet sequoia]

boots

[icy sedge]

even if i have leatherworking as a prof ? ill get the 440 forge next week

[scarlet sequoia]

yes

[rigid mango]

Yeah. Benthic boots are still BiS.

[icy sedge]

i see thanks, are we talking about the crit effect boots

[rigid mango]

Yep

[icy sedge]

cool ty

[icy sedge]

ye that sounds like a good idea ty

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kMbYNu3QBufTjPUoBEzJHg

why so low in st feels i did something wrong

[cobalt pelican]

1/4 benthic, simming 0loyal allies with loyal on your shoulders, pretty bad helmet

[distant lava]

very low sockets too

[steady owl]

is there a weak aura ui that's more reccomended than others? or what do you pros use?

[vestal wren]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[steady owl]

but, which one of those is genereally preferred here? there's so many to choose from. afenar's has the most installs and stars

[vestal wren]

all of them are fine

[steady owl]

the reason im asking is because mine is such a chaotic mess and i want to see if i improve by using something cleaner and simpler

[quasi pewter]

try them out and see what you like best?

[steady owl]

i will

[autumn slate]

Outside of getting benthic gloves and the other benthic wrist what should I get to do more dps https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eo9pn6fy4tP8AxTu7cigdg

I want to join that 53k club

[rancid bobcat]

[autumn slate]

I go sim again

[rancid bobcat]

Behemoth + zaqul azerite probably

[autumn slate]

What is behemoth

[rancid bobcat]

Fish

[autumn slate]

Ah

I know Zaqul azerite will be better

We still progressing that boss

[scarlet sequoia]

oh youre simming with aberration belt

i was so confused why you simmed lower when i simmed u

[rigid mango]

[autumn slate]

I have a 450 no socket belt which sims better than aberration belt if no benthic effects active

[rigid mango]

25 ilvls higher also with a socket? Sounds about right.

Having abb on with abb belt is like simming with worldvein or UT 100% uptime, it's simpad if you're trying to achieve numbers

[autumn slate]

I just want to maximise for my next progress boss really

which is zaqul

[rancid bobcat]

Zaqul isn't much of a dps check really

[tropic ocean]

Echo of delirium approves

[tardy pelican]

Is there any way to work out how many in raid use loyal to help with sim? I currently sit at 39% mastery and in raid I'm 45%.....I've asked in raid and one person said they use.

[arctic walrus]

You just ask

or look through everyone's azerite yourself

[tardy pelican]

What a ball ache

Not a simple 1% = one person using the trait?

[arctic walrus]

no

[tardy pelican]

Guess I'm inspecting everyone tonight 😴 thanks anyways

Another question while I'm at it.
During vendetta there comes a point where dots are about to drop off and there is 3-4 seconds left of vendetta, do I re apply rupture or get that last enevenom in?

[rigid mango]

You never let bleeds drop

[tardy pelican]

Fair enough. I usually notice this on the opener and am starved for energy at this point so didn't know if I was missing out on any dps. Will keep dots up 👍

[rigid mango]

R word is no bueno.

[autumn slate]

Ah

I need to optimise Zaqul because pepega group of friends i raid with

[rigid mango]

Aslong as you do echos the fight is easy

[arctic walrus]

I mean you should optimize every fight

[vestal wren]

idk, i feel the first fights of the raid are

given tuning is low enough that optimization wont make a significant diffrence

[rancid bobcat]

Loyal to the end on a 450 piece is 357/358 mastery

So you can take off the piece with it to calculate

[polar cape]

I tink exorsus raid tool track people’s azerite

[strange python]

Guys the dice is decent in raid?

[steep obsidian]

its decent until you can get font and coral

[strange python]

font?

[steep obsidian]

azshara trinket

[strange python]

mhh

Ok i only have plumage and dice for the moment

i hope those trinket wil ldrop xD

[steep obsidian]

those aren't terrible but the traid ones are just kinda op

[strange python]

Ok ty!

[robust river]

My stat weights are ridiculous even. Does this mean my gear is perfectly balanced #Thanos

[mortal tusk]

What should my first talent point be? I'm level 15.

[vestal wren]

EP if you want, but it does not rly matter to much

[mortal tusk]

Which spec is best for leveling?

[arctic walrus]

outlaw or sub

[mortal tusk]

Okay, I'll switch to one of those.

When does this class start to get good?

And what should be my first talent point on sub and outlaw?

[arctic walrus]

quickdraw or find weakness

"or find weakness"

[mortal tusk]

nvm

sorry

[barren dagger]

are the 445 engineering googles any good? like can they be "you have to sim it"-good or are they just straight up unusable?

[rigid mango]

They're good

Sim yourself to see how good ^^

You can sim them without having them

[barren dagger]

oh ok, will do, thanks 🙂

[leaden belfry]

For m+ should i play with 2 ss and 1 eb? or 3 ss 0 eb ( have shits azerite so cant take both )

[arctic walrus]

1 eb is huge

vs none at all

[leaden belfry]

kk, didnt know at all thanks !

[kind steppe]

hoy got somes questions, haven't played in 2 month cuz of studies, wanna push some m+ for holidays so if you guys are ok to responds to those

• Should I go for agi prepot or 1 min fury pot ? ( I guess 1 min ones when the fight last more than 2 min )
• I sim higher with azshara trinket, but I have FH dices ( only 430 ) in bag, should I go for it instead of azshara trinket ? ( my 2nd trinket is the razor coral in 430 socket )
• When should I go for crimson tempest ?

[vernal fern]

holy shit Crimson tempest is actually giga

9.3% of my dmg on a freehold 19

[arctic walrus]

You have to take into account how much damage pb would've done, as well as how many combo points you had to use that would've gone into envenoms, to see the real value

[vernal fern]

yeah true

but it feels really nice to play tbh

[fleet whale]

needs an animation update

[rigid mango]

Is that 3 eb ss CT?

[scarlet sequoia]

ct feels awful to play with

not pressing envenom sucks

and tb feels useless

[vernal fern]

no it was 2 EB 2SS 2 TTK

[fleet whale]

yeah im not really a fan of CT either

[rigid mango]

U just play exsang instead me thinks

[vernal fern]

I mean when there is no real focus target it doesnt feel bad not to press evenom

[scarlet sequoia]

probably

tb seems incredibly useless with ct

[rigid mango]

idd

[vernal fern]

tb is good since i have 2 ttk. In packs where i need to focus 1 target, i just put bleeds, then use vendetta tb blood and just fok evenom

still amazing prio dmg

[rigid mango]

Yah but ttk is bad with CT

[vernal fern]

and i think tb is still huge on boss fights for opening with blood

[rigid mango]

Doesn't matter if ur opener is huge if u don't do anything for the rest of the packs

With CT you limit your env usage

[fleet whale]

Is it still okay to use PB in M+?

[rigid mango]

yes

[vernal fern]

yeah there isnt much thinking behind my build

[rigid mango]

CT means

Less env

means ttk is bad

means tb is bad

[vernal fern]

just saw seli play CT on stream so i went to try

[polar cape]

I play hidden blade to assert domination with my first fok

[rigid mango]

Well, not necessarily bad but

[fleet whale]

so with CT, you would want 0TTK?

[rigid mango]

Unsure.

But ttk loses value for sure

[fleet whale]

3xss, 1xeb, and 1xBBI, that would probably fit CT well

[rigid mango]

Thing is then your ST is lacking

I'm thinking add an NP to it, maybe.

[vernal fern]

I think 3 SS 2 EB 1 TTK and CT is fine

3 SS 3 EB is too much padding

xd

I mean CT is only good on maps with a lot of +5 mobs pulls, on KR or TOS PB is still way better

[rigid mango]

Yeah, obv.

Thing is, speccing into CT seems like a comp decision

Or you need to work around the trade offs

[fleet whale]

idk if i could get out of 3xSS at this point, maybe some dungeons it might not be as optimal but that garrote damage

and it's a well versed trait

[rigid mango]

I mean there's no talk about dropping 3ss

[vernal fern]

meanwhile im still stuck on 2 SS because of bad rng azerite....

😦

im just gonna save 200k for eb ss head piece fuck this game

[vestal wren]

not sure if that change in 1 trade creates a big diffrence

[chilly marsh]

you did that sims with CLF vs blood vs beam ? fuu

[vestal wren]

na, am in raid atm ^^

i would need more specific dungeon gear given thats the first point ppl will say falsify the result

given the dungeon profile seems to not fit whats played

[chilly marsh]

true so many variations

[bleak spoke]

Why is Tb bad with ct

[chilly marsh]

is you use CT you cant evenenon

[bleak spoke]

You use them for different things

[chilly marsh]

and TB buffs evenenon

[rigid mango]

I don't think it's necessarily bad

It's just a bit worse

It's a bit jank to play

[vernal fern]

is there any reason we dont see anyone play exang anymore ? did they change anything about it after s1?

[royal lantern]

SS got nerfed

wich gave exsang most of its value

and even in S1 it was not the best all the time

[vernal fern]

Alright

I only started playing at the end of s2 so i wasnt aware of that ^^

[rigid mango]

We also don't run GCB anymore

which was amazing for snapshotting exsang

[rustic tree]

Did they change that interaction?
@rigid mango

[rigid mango]

Huh?

[rustic tree]

Exsang/GCB

[drifting cloud]

2nd ring on azerite killed it

[rigid mango]

Nah we don't ahve shit trinkets

and we don't want haste anymore

[rustic tree]

But we never wanted haste in m+?

[rigid mango]

SS wasn't nerfed

trinkets sucked

Exsang was meta

[tropic ocean]

@royal lantern it for sure was the best trait in s1

u favored using 340 ss over other azerite 🤷

[royal lantern]

not ss

exsang

[tropic ocean]

ah

[royal lantern]

ss was 100%the best ofc

[tropic ocean]

i misread

well exsang would still be good if there was a bleed trait in 2nd ring

just the other 2nd ring trait choices made exsang obsolete

iirc correctly they nerfed ss

and then buffed it somewhat again

[rustic tree]

Oh yeah I actually remember using a 340 SS head for quite a while xD

I think exsang needs to actually increase bleed dmg the same way TB buffs poison dmg

[tropic ocean]

guess its kinda hard to balance it properly

original ss was really broken and super strong with exsang

then they nerfed it by 40%

which was too much then they buffed it again (dunno value)

[royal lantern]

garrote->enemy dead

s1 m+ was funny

[bleak spoke]

Was that the patch they buffed dd or the patch they introduced np and wits where they buffed ss again

[grave elk]

is hidden blades good compared to other 2 options for m+

[rigid mango]

No

Just use PB

[grave elk]

i guess its weird that CT always sims best for me

[arctic walrus]

It's just broken. And unreliable to sim aoe for sin

[grave elk]

okay got it. the way i understand it as sin for m+ we want to get garrote and rupture on like 3 targets then start fok and using envenom on priority targets right? and fok 3+?

[timber meadow]

loti i wasn't saying to use the fok trait, I was saying i think ct is like same or maybe even a dps loss to just straight fok'ing

[tropic ocean]

Its not

[timber meadow]

Gotcha, okay

[grave elk]

ok cool thanks owen

[upbeat tinsel]

casual without a decent rank of conflict and strife. Any idea what 2nd minor to pair with BOTE + lucid dreams until I get rating up for rank 3 C&S? Or best left to sims?

for mythic+ content mostly

[mighty crown]

iris is prob your best for single target, and flame otherwise for raid

for m+ someone else would have to input

[upbeat tinsel]

yeah apologies added that in at the end, appreciate the input

[arctic walrus]

Pp or flame are fine in m+

[upbeat tinsel]

thanks

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[verbal radish]

What food buff is common in raising? I find with how much my stat weights rotate I can't pin anything down so I use stat food.

[rigid mango]

You can sim them (:

[grave elk]

idk how you ppl (who have rank 3 bote) did it. waiting like 10-20 mins per bg is insane

ahha guess so

[tropic ocean]

Use merc mode if horde

My qs popped constantly I got out 2 min later in again

[strange python]

Guys i have a lot of stuff in my bags and i wanna know whats are the stats for mm+? cause i know sim si not always a good choice for MM

[rigid mango]

crit mast

[strange python]

Crit>mast?

[rigid mango]

Get as much of you can of either

[strange python]

Mhh ok and on gems? better put crit ?

[rigid mango]

Probably.

[strange python]

Ok so ring enchant crit too ty!!

[subtle tundra]

@grave elk i know this is kinda late, but i got it while there was the pve brawl, almost instant queue and i afk'd half of the games

[grave elk]

awesome!

[grave elk]

are first 3 bosses worth using coin on?

[rigid mango]

Sim droptimizer

[rancid bobcat]

1st boss pretty important if you dont have a dagger

[gentle jewel]

!Essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[austere ruin]

can someone link rotation plz

[rigid mango]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[austere ruin]

is it TB before vanish or after

[rigid mango]

after

[austere ruin]

ty

[rigid mango]

No wait

Tb before vanish

ye

[austere ruin]

k

[plain moon]

On Za'qul how long before first split am I suppose to go down

[rigid mango]

20-15 is pretty comfy

[plain moon]

Alright thanks<3

Should I pop into fear realm then pop back out or just stay up b4 del?

[rancid bobcat]

nah cause you'll take stacks you dont need

[plain moon]

Do you guys go down in early dels or just in p4? I'm going down on first del and popping out at around the time of 2nd del just before p4 and i'm getting killed a lot when I pop out because im trying to save cloak,healthstone, healthpot etc

[arctic walrus]

You pop cloak around 6-7 stacks. You don't save it

[plain moon]

Don't I want to save it for p4 to make sure im alive for both splits?

[austere ruin]

do we use BOTE before TB and vanish?

[arctic walrus]

tb bote vanish

[austere ruin]

ty

[arctic walrus]

splits happen way further in the fight

Your cloak will be up

In fact, your cloak will even be up for split 2 if you use it for split 1

[rigid mango]

What do you think matters more vel

bote empowered TB and another GCD of both cd's together, or one more GCD of blood opening without wasting it on TB

Essentially that 1 GCD of blood you gain from TB'ing first instead of 2nd is only gonna be a mut

So it's essentially proper alignment of CD's or 1 more extra crit damage mut

[timber meadow]

Hm with the nerfs to venomtongue would BOTE still be the goto play if that dmg phase isn’t as tight

[rigid mango]

🔮

For the sake of consistancy, maybe?

[arctic walrus]

Maybe at its most basic form I can see where you're coming from. However I'm pretty sure with increased crit damage, crit chance, an active env buff -- Mut +dd proc would do more than at most a crit tb

[rigid mango]

The question is just if the extra GCD of crit inside of TB is worth it

[arctic walrus]

It has the potential to do more damage therefore it is worth it

[raw arrow]

hey , anyone here play exsanguinate build for M+ ? what traits do u run? , i think i can have 3x SS , 2x EB , 1x SB

[arctic walrus]

Is there a reason you want to play exsang

[bleak spoke]

Kings Rest

To beat the second deathly roar

But if you do you play 3ss, one np and no more than 1 eb

The last trait is probably blightborne or ttk

It also lights up the bridge pulls really hard

[fallow otter]

@timber meadow we have 1 bote and 1 clf rogue atm, probably both going clf after nerf

[grave elk]

so is it like never worth taking CT? in m+ im about to do a shrine 13

[timber meadow]

@fallow otter interesting yeah we dont raid again until friday

so was just thinking bout that

I mean, bote is like 1k less ST for me so i guess if the burst windows aren't as tight, it'd be nice to run clf

[fallow otter]

Actually I had a typo, we are 2x clf and 1 bote atm but yeh first change with be swapping that rogue to clf I think then gauging what other changes we need to make for the other dps timings

[timber meadow]

I dont even know where clf lines up

i assume it's pull/burn/2nd add?

[fallow otter]

We will likely push too hard for p2

[arctic walrus]

blood is just better on azshara because it gets more value/uses

[fallow otter]

Pull, burn, 3rd add

[timber meadow]

gotcha vel, so even with the nerfs you dont see that changing at all

i didn';t know if the nerfs made those extra uses less impactful

[arctic walrus]

We won't know for sure until they're implemented. However, blood can get uses on 2/3 tidemistresses as well as last phase. It was never a dps check, it's just easier now and shouldn't obviate the choice of taking blood

[dark crag]

I progresse with blood and use it on pull, when small adds are in middle and 2nd tidemistress

We do a dmg stop p1 and using vend blood right when azshara spawns felt like adds sometimes exploded and drained ward

[strange python]

Nerfs?!

[dark crag]

Yes, next week it will be new

[strange python]

Wait what is the nerf? I can’t find it on wowhead

[dark crag]

Hp nerf for tides, ward drain/empower gives more per stack

Also hulk gets hp nerf

[wanton turret]

puffer or frost wrists for benthic?

ignore my stupid q, i simmed

[urban blaze]

@dark crag why would you use on adds in the middle, surely it would be better served on tide mistress

[dark crag]

I use it on azshara but blood is an aoe hit and then i spam fok env into her

First tidemistress dies so fast that vend blood is almost wasted

And i have it ready for 2nd

But next week i probably test clf a bit

[grave elk]

when puitting together stats for m+ how much do u guys sim to get your st up? cuz obviously there is boss fights to consider

[frail current]

should i use echoing blades with hidden blades for m+ ?

[dark crag]

Op traits are enough for boss fights. Crit + mastery/versa have more value.
No, use pb

But 1 to 2 eb is not wrong

[grave elk]

ok. ive just been running a few SS and some np cuz i dont have good traits

and 1 DD

[modest tendon]

Hidden blades isn’t worth it, especially this season since you do less big pulls

It’s perfectly viable though

Just pb is better on every situation

[dark crag]

Try to replace dd for m+

Also the np

[modest tendon]

Dd is really shit in m+, 3 ss does all the single target you would ever need, anyway

[simple gulch]

He

Hey

How do I modify details to show my damage at all times even when I vanish?

I can't properly test my rotation's damage

Because the damage meter resets when im out of combat

anyone?

[modest tendon]

Details has an overall damage page?

[arctic walrus]

You can go fight the tank dummy in your garrison

[worldly iron]

#wow-general

[proper nest]

anyone who could help me with learning assa ? (im a main outlaw never played assa but have to learn it for raiding so kinda need some tips and tricks if possible)

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah

[tropic ocean]

ravenholdt.net should be your first destination

and pinned messages in this channel afterwards

[proper nest]

i have check ravenholdt and shit but i still cant get out the dps i should need to do

[tropic ocean]

if you do the rotation correctly

the rest is gear/essence/raid

or just link log

[proper nest]

well dont have logs yet xD have being trying out on target dummys

[tropic ocean]

u can log that personally as well

[brave vector]

When running Coral and another proc trinket am I putting coral up on the opener and then waiting until after my second MA window to pop it?

So vendetta > TB > vanish > 3 gcds > coral. or am I popping coral earlier?

[tropic ocean]

coral on pull

[brave vector]

Mhmmmm, but when to activate the crit buff? During second vendetta after the MA window or does it not matter as long as it's after vendetta?

[tame basin]

Macro Coral with Vendetta

it's the easiest way

[worldly iron]

none of you answered their question

[tame basin]

Unless you have Font as well then you need to use it manually

[worldly iron]

I'm not sure myself, but I would assume that it doesn't really matter that much

it's not a matter of "what's the easiest way"

[brave vector]

That would be the easiest way

And I’m aware on the usage

[worldly iron]

yes, it would, but you were asking what would be the best

[brave vector]

I’m asking if it’s worth it

To wait after the ma window is over

To not make waste of the crit

[rigid mango]

Just use it everytime you pop vend

[brave vector]

Or if it’s a minor optimization

[tame basin]

Ok, another question, I've been doing Vanish > TB > Envenom (I've also saw Infexious explain it the same) but opener in the your guide tells to do TB before vanish, also I've read that in MA window is more importat to get multilate (with at least 2 DD traits) than 4cp envenom, so even if you do Vanish > Envenom > Multi (got 4 points from it) then you go multi instead of Env. Can some1 explain me that?

[worldly iron]

where did you read this

and it's mutilate, not multi

[tame basin]

you're right 😄

[worldly iron]

you don't want to overcap

you're (hopefully) doing big toxic blade crits in your MA windows

[tame basin]

I didn't so far, but since DD trait may do more dmg than envenom I wanted to confirm

[worldly iron]

DD won't compete with big vendetta + toxic blade envenom crits

[rigid mango]

You tb > so you don't waste a second of MA

on 1 CP gain

[tame basin]

sounds fair

[rigid mango]

instead of potentially 2 extra CP and another envenom from it

[tropic ocean]

VanitausToday at 3:31 PM
none of you answered their question :floffwhat:

??? he asked when to use coral if u dont use 2 on use rest is in pin

so u use coral on start of fight

[tame basin]

how many gcd you can get in MA window (or it depends on haste)

?

[tropic ocean]

3

no matter what haste

[tame basin]

Hero / BL doesn't change that

?

[tropic ocean]

always 3 no matter what haste

[worldly iron]

yeah, but you didn't read what he said

he asked when to pop it after applying it at the start

[tropic ocean]

I read what he said "When running Coral and another proc trinket am I putting coral up on the opener and then waiting until after my second MA window to pop it?"

[tame basin]

I've been reading about haste reducing gcd but it was in legion resto druid guide (thought it also works for everyone)

[tropic ocean]

so yes u apply it on start and rest just like it says in the pin

🤷

@tame basin minimum gcd of sin rogue is 1

nothing changes it

[tame basin]

good to know it 🙂

thanks

[tropic ocean]

(you can easily test this by going in delirium in zaqul, where you will have 3 billion haste and still can only do a spell every sec)

[tame basin]

Oh wait, does 3 counts with env from stealth or withouth it 😄

[tropic ocean]

3 spells will be buffed by ma

as ma procs as soon as u leave stealth

so if u do env mut env those 3 will be buffed, sometimes weak aura /buff shows like the 4th spell is still in ma window, but u can just see from log that it isnt

[tame basin]

so it's better to do 3cp env instead of second mut?

[tropic ocean]

no

[tame basin]

so it's fuck my luck if I get 3cp from Mut during MA

😄

[tropic ocean]

u prepare ur ma window and in most cases u will have 4-5 cp env mut(gives 4cp) and env again

if u get 3 cp u just mut

with coral u have mostly 100% crit anyway in ma

or close to

[tame basin]

yea, except opener

[tropic ocean]

yeah but in opener its not as important

as u mut rup mut

and no vendetta so its fine

[tame basin]

I was talking about first vendetta with vanish

you don't have any coral on that

[tropic ocean]

oh yeah

but its a very little times that u dont crit as u even then have 80+% crit

usually

[tame basin]

ok, so last q, didn't see it in guide, should I pop up Guardian before pull or just before vendetta

[tropic ocean]

before vendetta

u mut rup mut and then u can guardian or garrote guardian i think we had the discussion here some time ago and it literally doesnt matter

[tame basin]

ok, I was just analyzing first guy on Court Mythic fight at it looked like he prepull guardian

[tropic ocean]

if u do it before or after garrote

probably a mess up

guardian unstealths u

[tame basin]

I was thinking about font > guardian > stealth > prepot > multi

[tropic ocean]

(+the 1 gcd where u pop guardian before vendetta makes u recover energy)

u will waste time of ur guardian buff while doing that and also guardian will attack the mob iirc?

[tame basin]

yea, I usually going like that, but still looking for things to improve

is it on aggressive? 😄

[tropic ocean]

idk but just pop it in your opener after ma and you should be fine

it helps u to rec energy and the dps difference will, even if there is any, be non noticeable

but I think with what u wanna do u'll lose dps as u lose 2-3 font buffed gcd

[tame basin]

thx for explanation

Do you guys recommend particular youtubers videos for PoV fights? Or any1 who got kill on mythic shall be fine 😄

as rogue ofc

[rigid mango]

Seliathan, raz

[young portal]

Recommend Raz' streams/vods as well, improved a fair bit watching him

[wide lake]

Hey guys any suggestions for improvements ?
( and I don't know why when i put "let Simc decide" for the food i don't see any food pick...)
You'll probably tell me to loot ashvane coral in mythic and zaq'ul head but if you see something than i don't :)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dp55tueqtSjK1eGyp6gwFF

[rigid mango]

Get a better ring

more sockets

zaq helm

Lw pants if you care

Azshara hands are better if socketed

[shut garnet]

actually 435 azshara hands outsims 425 poen's

at least for me

wouldnt be surprised if just 430 would too

[wide lake]

yeah Lw pants and Jw ring sounds nice
unfortunatly i don't think my guild will reach zaq'ul ... Stuck at QC
But thanks for the replies, really appreciated 🙂

[scarlet sequoia]

@wide lake looks like deadly / quick nav is better than force / quick nav for you

[hasty dew]

hey just re simmed myself and it shows vers as the second best, is that correct?

[arctic walrus]

Yikes maybe we should talk about that wv

[wide lake]

oh, thank you @scarlet sequoia I couldn't put the enchant on the sim, too much iteration

[dark crag]

Get clf, iris and lucid r3

[hasty dew]

what would u swap vel

[dark crag]

Also get blood and strife

[hasty dew]

major clf?

[wide lake]

in r3 yes

meanwhile i guess memory r2 is better

but sim it to be sure

[arctic walrus]

You just sim it and never consider wv

[hasty dew]

got it

[tropic ocean]

@tame basin https://www.twitch.tv/ziterogue the boy

[sharp viper]

worldvein would be stronger if they finally gave us a fight like patchwerk again

[tropic ocean]

we have patchwerk-like fight (1st boss) but even there its not as good as it pretends 😄

[acoustic vessel]

because its buggy?

[vestal wren]

first 4 are pretty patchworky

[tropic ocean]

@acoustic vessel no but it has a very small radius

so unless multiple people use it and noone ever needs to move more than 12 yards it will be nowhere near the sim values it - we tried running it in orgozoa where u pretty much stack for most of the fight and just move out with arcing current and had <50% uptime iirc

[icy ember]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mB43PqqizUb1UaVx6FDsz8

[crisp hollow]

seli's running 3x SS and crimson tempest rn, did anyone catch why he opted for that build?

[rigid mango]

How about uhh, asking him?

[crisp hollow]

i did he didn't reply to chat

[rigid mango]

Then maybe he will after, or you can always ask him on the discord he's a CF of

[crisp hollow]

yay he replied

you did nothing to help it, but I thank you regardless Zine

[nocturne gate]

haha

[ashen oriole]

whats the best mode (closest) to sim court fight?

[vestal wren]

a custom fight script probably

[ashen oriole]

hmm so nothing that is readily available?

[arctic walrus]

I mean patchwork is fine

[vestal wren]

^

[arctic walrus]

You run st anyway

[ashen oriole]

yeah well was wondering if perhaps ss or sob could be better than pure st traits due to two targets and lots of running but well.

[arctic walrus]

No they won’t be better

[ashen oriole]

because it cant be held up during the whole fight?

tried to sim it with 2 bosses and heavy movement, there it came out ahead

but then i'm not sure of the limitations of the fight style

[arctic walrus]

If they were stacked and you had nothing to worry about yes SS would probably be better, look back to 3rd boss of bod. However the large amount of movement and mechanics to juggle especially as melee make that fight very annoying. And the odds of perfect play get slimmer. So it’s better to play DD build perfectly rather than play SS poorly

[ashen oriole]

i get that however i was thinking more of sob but I guess its the same issue as with ss

[arctic walrus]

It’s only 1 more target. And yet won’t even have full uptime for that

[ashen oriole]

got it. probably the high movement 2 boss setting assumes that it is held up even during movement with only small downtimes

[vestal wren]

raid_events+=/movement,players_only=1,first=10,distance=25,duration=4
thats what heavy movement does essentially (from wiki)

not sure what frequent, but i assume its quite frequently

so tl;dr: random 4 secound downtimes very often

[ashen oriole]

ait thanks fuu for clarifying

[vestal wren]

The thing with simc always is that the user is in charge of how realistic the results are.
The standard fight styles are very limited so if you want a specific fight
or specific play style you will need to invest more time 😛

[vestal wren]

can someone post/dm me a good m+ gear profile, i need a common stat distribution.

essentially this is what i look for (last lines if you open profile tab of a report)

[tropic ocean]

For court you can probably custom sim

2 target cleave with 60-70% dot uptime on target 2

If that is possible

[rancid bobcat]

@vestal wren

this is mine

hmm whys my agi so high

[vestal wren]

is that the common distribution in higher keys?

[rigid mango]

If you're talking standard setup you'd be looking at uhh

42-44% of either

if you pump more into SS you pump 55+% mastery

35% crit

[tropic ocean]

@vestal wren u can sim my char from armory should still wear m+ stuff

[rancid bobcat]

Gear Summary

gear_ilvl=440.50

gear_agility=7558

gear_stamina=14352

gear_crit_rating=1986

gear_haste_rating=434

gear_mastery_rating=1599

gear_versatility_rating=160

gear_avoidance_rating=87

gear_armor=2820

[tropic ocean]

36 crit 6 haste 56 or 57 % mastery sonewhat

[strange python]

Guys i have a question, i just got back to the game, whenever i see a assassination rogue pov they always have so much energy regen

[rancid bobcat]

they have lots of haste gear or have lots of bleeds active

[rigid mango]

What aus is running is standard m+ setup

[rancid bobcat]

hmm i guess in game stats has some extra agi in the window

[arctic walrus]

Essences play a huge part in energy regen/smoothness

[rancid bobcat]

percentages are

[tropic ocean]

well energy regen is higher than it was in s1 s2 naturally cause of lucid and higher stats in gebral

[rancid bobcat]

ratings are

[vestal wren]

drippin = your ign?

[rigid mango]

Ratings

[rancid bobcat]

percentages

[tropic ocean]

Ausgelebt-Sunstrider

[vestal wren]

ohh okay

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4LrjFNKVQEZBRKPH2FUGx

[tropic ocean]

Currently trying to lower crit more and put more mastery but need socketed belt and other sob ring for it and recraft legs for low crit high mastery but cba after walking from scrapper to nazjatar and back after 10 crafts 😂

[vestal wren]

so, those stats are fine?

[tropic ocean]

They are very decent for m+

[rigid mango]

ye those r good

[vestal wren]

kk

[rigid mango]

You'd want crit and maybe some versa if you ran more EB's

[rancid bobcat]

thats not a 70 neck

[tropic ocean]

theres not much more to improve maybe 1-2crit more and 2-3 mastery but that requires more sockets/forges

[rancid bobcat]

youre missing dem 8 crit/haste/mastery

[vestal wren]

haha ^^

i dont think we need to be that picky

to get reasonable results

just dont want to use the standard profile with stats that might differ to much (t24 stats):

[rancid bobcat]

yeah just lop off 1k haste and split it between crit and mastery

[cobalt pelican]

my 'no haste' m+ gear has 15% haste at night as nelf

shmileyface

[tropic ocean]

Yeah std profile way too much haste

[rigid mango]

None

Apart from zaq

[dapper bough]

ty

[strange python]

Noob question here, ive seen some ass POV's and there was little to none downtime, how can i reach that level?

[rigid mango]

Didn't you literally ask that earlier

[arctic walrus]

We already told you. Gear and essences.

[strange python]

Sorry my discord crashed

😛

[bleak spoke]

Not having 11% haste in+ :vomit:

In m+*

[rigid mango]

Why would u play 11% tho

blood gives you nearly 10% from 2 foks

So you play with near 20 anyways

[bleak spoke]

Does it stack that quickly

Also like it’s for the start

I don’t like missing the 5th global

It feels like shit

[cobalt gyro]

i had blood up 90% of the time in orgozoa

you get stacks per hit of echoing

so basically aoe with EB = full uptime on blood

[vestal wren]

So, some Essence/Azerite sims:

Guardian:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/in1DaFEykdJktbVNgP7WU3/simc
Blood:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7qXnsw4cZretUNoq5JDJer/simc
Beam: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rPG5WTJRtMSmhNpZdSQe5b/simc

standard talents, switched to MA for 3xttk 3x eb

[cobalt gyro]

it's interesting that BoTE is the highest dps

and also that TTK is apparently worse than a standard set up

[vestal wren]

if you look at blood ttk prio seems reasonable high

[cobalt gyro]

i'd imagine it would win out in priority if instead of 3 EB it was shrouded + ttks

[tropic ocean]

No

Fok with eb doesnt stack to full in 1 cast not even in 8 mob pack

and not in 2 casts as well

[cobalt gyro]

depends how many crits you get

[bleak spoke]

What’s the default ss profile

That looks to be the best

Oh 3 eb 3 ss

[sudden schooner]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7CKaMMXFJLkCmohpRgFiAf

Vers highest stat weight, still it wants me to gem all crit

🤔

[tropic ocean]

gem one crit do stat weight again

[bleak spoke]

54k Pog

[tropic ocean]

stat weights only consider current

they don't value stat changes when changing sockets

[sudden schooner]

Like, simming 12m iterations takes fkin forever

[vestal wren]

you can just make a stat sim with no sockets 😉

or a plot

[sudden schooner]

actually 500 iq

I didnt think of that 💩

[tropic ocean]

on 4 targets its around 10~12 bote stacks per fok cast @cobalt gyro

with 36% out of combat crit - 68% crit in combatz with all buffs

avg~

[vestal wren]

With 8 targets for fun:

Blood: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fP3Z5nV2sL84PVnRAq4MSg/simc
Iris: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4HVsx4SnfcHUuHBcu8jSYB/simc

[sudden schooner]

I see rogues simming over 55k tho, dno whats my biggest upgrades tbh

probably titanforges

[vestal wren]

55k is very well geared

[sudden schooner]

I believe Råz got past 55k

[chilly marsh]

a 455 weapon

[tropic ocean]

yeah but raz is a hacker

when he kills something he gets a dropdown and just chooses from loot table what he needs

[vestal wren]

So.. even with blood MA TTK is ahead of subterfuge builds

on 8 targets

[chilly marsh]

funny to see beam being the worst in those sims

[arctic walrus]

he breaks 55 when he puts on ab belt on

[vestal wren]

blood seems to scale slightly better

[arctic walrus]

and wv

[scarlet sequoia]

i got it without vel

[arctic walrus]

oh oops

[tropic ocean]

blood is superior to iris for the minor I believe as well

stacking crit >> haste

[vestal wren]

anyone got a similar outlaw profile?

so i can compare prio on 8 targets

esp. when you pick MA ttk it seems prio gains a slight boost

[sudden schooner]

Raz will probably snatch my rank 1 at Sivara on wednesday

[chilly marsh]

so far 3SS 3 EB best build

[tropic ocean]

best build for overall yeah

[vestal wren]

i will compile findings, just want to see how outlaw/sin competes

[bleak spoke]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3AajsmezZFDftf7zX96793

[tropic ocean]

but we knew that from s2 already

[chilly marsh]

yea just didnt think 3ss 2eb 1ttk would be this behind

[tropic ocean]

@bleak spoke swirling sands make u regem all crit

@chilly marsh ? its not much behind

[chilly marsh]

113k x 119k

[tropic ocean]

?

yeah in 4 target scenario

but do you do 119k dps in 4 targets?

cuz I for sure dont 😄

the difference in reality will be not as big

[vestal wren]

is itemlvl comparable for RtB rng barely affects you's profile?

[bleak spoke]

err my profile's 440 equipped for the outlaw profile i sent you

[chilly marsh]

yea sure but didnt thought a 3° EB would be that good

[vestal wren]

y

[bleak spoke]

it might be a bit socket heavy though

[tropic ocean]

well it still is the best overall setup and the bigger u pull the better eb gets

[vestal wren]

moment, ill add it to the 8 target chart

[bleak spoke]

so i'm not sure if it's the best comparison per se but i do want data on like... how the end of tier looks sim wise

for sin vs outlaw

[tropic ocean]

@chilly marsh I guess if u could choose any combination and wanted to solely go for overall u'd go something like

3xeb+bbi+swirlingsands + any other crit trait if there is

[rigid mango]

Probably just one SS

for the setup

[bleak spoke]

ehh it's hard to beat the frontloaded burst of 3 ss though

like for overall i mean

[rigid mango]

yah but I mean if u want overall I think u just run 3 eb with crit shit and 1 ss

[bleak spoke]

LOLOLOLL

FOIJAOJFSOFJAJFSO FUU

okay

[rigid mango]

Huh?

[tropic ocean]

outlaw is 20k dpsin front of sin in 4 target?

wat

[vestal wren]

wait

[bleak spoke]

that is very ahead

wtf

[vestal wren]

is the string from ptr?

it seems it has 4 essences

[bleak spoke]

no

that's my simc

wtf

[vestal wren]

🤔 then i made a copy/paste issue

[bleak spoke]

MAN

i guess outlaw owns with 4 essences PepeLaugh

[tropic ocean]

oh

its with 4th essence

hahahha

[chilly marsh]

fuu could you sin trinkets too ?

[bleak spoke]

what would ideal sin trinkets be

probably spyglass + coral?

[chilly marsh]

using inkpod/coral/ ashara

[tropic ocean]

for m+ spyglass is pretty much set

[bleak spoke]

font and inkpod feel more like st trinkets to me

[tropic ocean]

and then theres multiple viable options depending on your group and how u pull

[bleak spoke]

yeah spyglass is just too good with rogue

[tropic ocean]

I had some pretty big results with font of power but it requires your tank to be not stupid

[vestal wren]

so, what essences does outlaw use... i re-write the imput

blood major, what minor?

[bleak spoke]

blood vision lucid

[maiden siren]

c&s

[tropic ocean]

rustbolt on use trinket is very good as well for big prio

[vestal wren]

k

[tropic ocean]

or if you dont like the on use u can just use the proc card as well for dmg overall

[bleak spoke]

You mean the car bomb trinket?

Or device

Oh of course you mean device the car bomb trinket is a meme

[tropic ocean]

the npc one

u either have 1,2k haste proc (which can carry boss dps)

or the one use which is giga prio dmg

[bleak spoke]

I think cyclotronic is probably better

[tropic ocean]

i have 445 socketed dice so i just use that

[bleak spoke]

The haste proc seems pretty weak on aoe

[tropic ocean]

as im too lazy to perm press coral

[bleak spoke]

And the raw stats from a big yellow card is pretty good

[tropic ocean]

about overall idk with font of power but

for deleting nasty mobs its very big

and even deleting packs as well

[bleak spoke]

I’ve been playing with spyglass font with outlaw and it’s not that bad but having to restealth really blows

As sin

[chilly marsh]

so Harlan's, Spyglass, inkpood, coral and Azshara's Font are the top trinkets to sim ?

[vestal wren]

ye seems to not change a lot

[chilly marsh]

any other guys

[bleak spoke]

Oh Jesus it went up guy

Why does fuu autocorrect to guy pepelaugh

[tropic ocean]

for m+ i wouldnt use inkpod personally

as afaik fokcant proc it on multiple enemies

[bleak spoke]

Have you checked crimson tempest fuu

For uncapped aoe

[vestal wren]

haha, that would be fun

[bleak spoke]

Cuz right now in keys a ct sin rogue can beat an outlaw rogue

[tropic ocean]

yeah

fok cant proc inkpod on multitarget

so no value on aoe

[chilly marsh]

check trinket variations for us fuu

[bleak spoke]

Like I’m pretty sure the strongest specs right now are ct sin, dh, udk and fire for raw throughput in keys

[tropic ocean]

@chilly marsh

only proccing from reapplying dots