opaque kernel
that is a similar one to the one i use
#assassination
flint jetty
Most should have pendimic reminders built in in some way
tropic ocean
@autumn slate font + punchcard is really good for delirium as u have a super good burst
font+coral is good too, but coral is scuffed to use for downstairs in combo with font
rigid mango
You just use coral for first echo, font for 2nd
It's not bad, just depends a bit on your timers. Works perfectly for me.
ember rover
^ what he said.
Font + Vendetta for first one
Vendetta + vanish + coral 3 seconds after vendetta into 2nd echo
And you literally destroy both echoes.
You do need Visions of Perfection for this, though.
warm plover
ty
deep solstice
To clarify the pin note on coral, basically only use coral second cast to line up with vendetta, unless boss will die before vendetta?
arctic walrus
Np
scarlet sequoia
correct
warm plover
@deep solstice ty, just as i thought, wanted to know so i dont miss alot of dps
compact rock
Sim says alchemist stone is better than spy glass(430) but blood mallet says the opposite... which one is good for ST at raid situation?
deep solstice
trust your sim, unless some boss mechanic gives you a reason not to
scarlet sequoia
sim
deep solstice
Blood mallet/ hero damage are simmed with specific gear sets, talents, essences etc.....usually that is not your setup
compact rock
Thank you senpai rogues I’ll trust the sim
scarlet sequoia
np
deep solstice
daijoubu
shut garnet
always trust the guys with the blue names
@deep solstice does that mean that "bis" gearset from bloodmallet would actually be bis if you got exactly those pieces at 455 with a socket?
or herodamage i think's the one with the "bis gear" thingy
mb
deep solstice
I believe that is the intention, but if I remember right bloodmallet doesnt calculate with benthic pieces, so no, it would not be BiS for Palace
those calcs are essentially giving a stat weight to the trinket effects with an "optimized" setup. IE how well they scale compared to eachother at endgame
I miss PTR Shrouded Suffocation when a 2 stack gave you 5 CP for garroting. 😦
royal lantern
would that change stuff....?
right now you would not use it in raids anyway, and in m+ you want that 3x garrote spread
deep solstice
honestly if the CP stacked our opener would change completely
but would it be enough to massively change the value? hard to say
royal lantern
ye, thats more what i meant
it would maybe change the opener, but i somewhat doubt that we would actually use it
deep solstice
for M+ it wouldnt matter, as you say, because you already waste CP...would give you a stronger opener for M+ bosses though
royal lantern
ye, fair point with that
gritty yew
hey there
just rolled assa
wondering what are the best essences for mplus
i know raids is gonna be rocky, but dk if its gonna be like wayors, BOTE>iris or not
rigid mango
Strife is good for m+ and good for fights where iris is bad
rigid mango
Strife as a minor, yeah.
gritty yew
i know both DHs and Fwarrs ended up liking CaS 2nd minor
rigid mango
That's what I'm talking about
arctic walrus
You can just pug to 1600
modest tendon
PP and crucible are okish as well, just c&s best by a margin
gritty yew
is it efficient to splitspec, raid with assa and mplus on outlaw?
arctic walrus
It’s personal preference. Do yo care about swapping Azerite or do you just want 2 sets of gear. Are you better at 1 or the other etc
gritty yew
im a DH main, used to two setting, and i'll likely do mostly mplus on this char
though i am a high-end m raid on dh
so i could use an assasination alt
modest tendon
For competitive raiding, you need to go assa and outlaw
gritty yew
also hi there payday. legit just noticed its you
gritty yew
yup. still looking for a rogue for a mplus team, is why im here
modest tendon
That’s literally the reason why I rolled rogue
arctic walrus
Why did you add in that “and outlaw” lol
modest tendon
We needed a rogue and I can’t tank lol
gritty yew
cmon do mplus with me :^)
gritty yew
i mean, it depends on the comp
on progress we had rogue go outlaw
but thats cause we didnt have the cleave
when we got a 2nd fire mage and my dh geared proper he went back to assa cause it is more ST
modest tendon
Outlaw is god tier because it does good add damage and good boss damage
Cleaving makes it do more boss damage before if the wits trait right?
With assa, you can only do 1 or the other
gritty yew
it does not do good boss damage 
distant lava
#wow-general btw
gritty yew
sorry!
arctic walrus
High high end raiding of course you have to be able to play whatever spec. At this point, or anywhere probably after the ashvane wall, you didn’t need outlaw
modest tendon
Ye, depends on your level of raiding, It’s quite trivial to change between assa and outlaw though, a lot of the azerite that is good for one, is good for the other
strange python
On zaqul, you say bote as major. But when you used it? On first echo? Or uses it for adds?
scarlet sequoia
use it any time you want until you have to do delirium
then you use it for each echo yes
strange python
Im have to do the first Delirium phase
marble hemlock
you have it for every delirium phase, so even if you get sent down immediately in p2 and then first/second in p3, you have vendetta+bote every time
first delirium usually happens at ~2:30 so you can only use it once on pull and then have to hold it, or it wont be ready for the delirium phase
strange python
Mhh okay, but we all holding cds in p1 because we have to go afk anyways :/
distant lava
yeah that fight sucks
arctic walrus
Pop them anyway
distant lava
I casted vendetta 3 times in 8 minutes
strange python
Mhh okay i talk with my rl .. thank you :)
grave elk
How is sin compared to outlaw in m+
arctic walrus
Both are fine outlaw is just better though
grave elk
where can i go look at what essences ppl run? i will prob be spamming dungeons for gear. and i have no clue what essences ppl like to run
stuck knoll
Blood major is pretty popular overall
arctic walrus
Lucid minor and vop for outlaw, if you have more questions go to their channel
Lucid and c&s for sin though
Both you want blood major however
grave elk
ok great. i just wanted to know what i wanted to work on
ive been spending a lot of time trying fire mage. and although its fun. i cant stand being ranged
devout bolt
Inkpod dmg affected by anything??
split tartan
rigid mango
Two.
rigid mango
If it's socketed ye
shut pasture
no socket
rigid mango
🤷
tame basin
Hey guys, we are progressing Orgonzoa and I've spec into top log build with Scend of Blood + Echoing Blades traits, I've also changed most of my gems to mastery but I'm not sure if I should focus on thatt or it would be better to go crit (I don't know how to sim it properly). Can some1 give me a hint? Those are logs from last raid:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n32bqmVX6cfCpHWJ/
royal lantern
pls dont do that stupid echoing blades build
its 100%ussules and pointless padding
civic palm
Progression != Padding
rigid mango
Is there no one else who can do that add damage?
fervent beacon
Just go outlaw
royal lantern
most raid groups have the add dmg+if you really need add dmg, go outlaw
you lose too much boss dmg as sin for doing add dmg
civic palm
Surely there's a literally anyone else that can pump more add dmg
royal lantern
you raidgroup probably has enough aoe anyway, its not a big aoe req
just need the right people too do it
sharp viper
2x fire mages, 2x fury warrior, 1x boomkin and 3x locks should be more than enough to handle adds on orgozoa
adds need to be handled but other classes and specs are better at doing so. Assa is great for boss damage.
From the logs you've linked it appears that your majority of problems are fails and not people killing adds fast enough
verbal knot
I'm having guild trouble on Gorgonzola too. I do about 55k and that's only like .5% on adds. We sit at about add wave 5 and 67% on boss health, I feel like we are really behind and they feel like adds are dying too slow, but I feel like we can't sacrifice boss damage at this point any my AOE would hurt more than it would help
But we have 4 Demon Hunters and a boomkin and my single target is higher DPS than their aoe.
sand whale
/gquit
tropic ocean
if adds die too slow spec into more aoe
its not the biggest of an issue to play 1 or 2 more add waves
compared to soaks overlapping
with new adds
blissful tide
That’s a big yikes
tropic ocean
might be bad positioning as well by tank that tanks the adds
usually you just cleave them while dpsing boss
verbal knot
might have to look into that
royal lantern
red line=yell LOUD that the tanks need too move them a bit(if they dont do it by themself)
steady owl
i have to choose between iris, crucible and clf as a third essence for m+, whats the best choice? I dont have vop, purification protocol or conflict and strice
im using bote and lucid as major and 2 minor
rigid mango
Crucible probs
steady owl
ok thanks. i was wondering if the haste from iris would be good for some boss fights
royal lantern
haste is not good for trash
rigid mango
It would, but it's garbage outside of that
royal lantern
and you fight trash for the majority of a dungeon
sharp viper
i would rather go bote as minor over iris minor in m+
sharp viper
well that should be a given - i never unequipped lucid ever, in any scenario
prisma carbon
what setup do i run if im going into delirium on m zaqul?
rigid mango
You're doing echos I presume?
prisma carbon
ya
royal lantern
Blood major lucid/vop minor
rigid mango
Bote major, lucid vop minor
Leeching poison
Drop some haste if you're downthere a lot.
prisma carbon
thx
hot copper
Are there specific times you refresh your dots for maximum efficiency on Court or do you just try to maintain 100%?
arctic walrus
It would be inefficient to maintain 100%
You go when sprint/ss are up, and you don't lose much uptime on either
tame basin
Our adds are dying nearly the moment new spawn or few sec after, so dps on adds are just enough
hot copper
Alright, I might just have to stop blowing both sprint and SS at the start.
verbal knot
Im not a pro, but I also won't go if I have TB or Vendetta up on my primary guy
rigid mango
Obviously.
tame basin
Ok, so if I move my focus from adds to boss on Orgonzoa encounter what build would you recommend? Should I still go Scent and replace EB for TTK and skip DD since with 4 targets FoK would still be most efficient combo generator? What Essences? I'm going BoE major + strife + lucid atm
I believe keeping rupture on at least 3 targets shall still be viable
rancid bobcat
all of the top boss damage logs still use the standard ST build
because double dose is a lot of damage
you just rupture the adds so you can spam mutilate
rigid mango
It's stupid good for padding yeah
arctic walrus
That guy’s guild intentionally let him handle adds
And everyone else backed off so he could parse
devout thicket
can you cloak the frenetic charge on queens court?
stuck knoll
Yes but it won’t target you
devout thicket
does it only target range players?
broken crypt
stuck knoll
Yeah it only really targets ranged
devout thicket
@broken crypt fanatical verdict?
dapper moat
anyone here using some nice wa string for ashenvales razor coral trinket? 🙂
found some nice so nwm 🙂
hmm.. one more about the ashenvales razor coral, do u guys think its good to macro with vendetta? when u do opener with vendetta u activate and when u re-use vendetta 2min later, u then have high stacks on coral? any downside on using it as macro with vendetta?
rigid mango
If you ever get font it won't work
dapper moat
im sorry, back after 8 month break.. font is a item or?
obtuse cedar
Azshara on use trinket
dapper moat
ah yes
just googled it, isee
ty
damn 2x on use trinkets 😄
that some serious brainwork when middle of raid encounter 🙂
carmine lynx
is top gear acting sketchy for anyone else ? what i mean by this is , i simmed top gear , it shows me my currently eqquiped gear is the top gear , than when i scroll down to sidegrades it shows me a +700 dps increase sidegrade is this supposed to happen ? first time i have encountered this problem ( after that if i change my enchants and gems , and I do a quick sim it is nowhere near what the numbers on top gear where)
rigid mango
Link it.
sand whale
- Equipped gear is a sidegrade of the top result
arctic walrus
The gear you simmed with equiped is not the one that was your top gear
carmine lynx
i see , i ll re-gem and re-enchant , and i ll do a quick sim , last time i did this the quick sim was like 700 dps less than what top gear showed
this is the quick sim after re-enchanting and re-gemming everything as the last top gear said
it's stilll less by quite alot
sand whale
top gear is using smartsim which kinds relates to why the top gear is pushing out those results as sidegrades
carmine lynx
ye it's weird tho cause it never did this until now , usually sidegrades when running top gear where like 10-20 dps now seeing 700 i was wait a second , and the fact that the gap between what top gear shows and quick sim shows fried my brain trying to understand it
sand whale
you can try upping the iterations when you run top gear see if you're still getting these
carmine lynx
it's at 11M/12M iterations i think
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hidden bay
@carmine lynx shouldnt it be a bigger upgrade if u use 445 Shoulderpads of Frothing Rage over 430 Gorak Tul's? Since Frothing rage has Loyal and Gorak Tuls doesnt 👀
carmine lynx
I haven't tried simming that , i need to check out how many people in the raid roster run loyal to the end , i tried simming blackwater vest over cephalohide but even with max loyal stack it s a 100 dps decrease so i doubt shoulders will be an upgrade
finite yarrow
for blood of enemy, and razor do i aim to pop them together or one before the other?
quasi pewter
there is a 1% target error in ur top gear for some reason
quasi pewter
hidden bay
for whatever reason 4Head
in my sims i never see any error https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vWo56TAwUJz8Q1z37P6sCQ 
carmine lynx
am i doing something wrong ? XD
tiny finch
Guys are you double unbridled fury potting on St fights or can i try Focused resolve + unbridled fury?
arctic walrus
If unbridled is your best potion, don't you think it would be nice to use it twice, rather than use your best once, and your second best once?
tropic ocean
I always use unbridled
tiny finch
just getting some opinions on the matter
timber meadow
So there's not a single log of any assasin rogue whose ever killed azshara that ran deeper
but simming deeper vs. vigor it's like 300 dps diff for me
and would give an extra second on stun
im assuming vigor is a lot better than shows up just in a sim or else somebody woulda run it at some point
arctic walrus
Can you link
It can happen, but the clunkiness that comes with DS can make it frustrating vs the smoothness of vigor
timber meadow
yeah my buddy was saying the clunkiness of ds is the main thing - Im playing assa for the first time this tier starting on azshara so have a lotta basic questions that id prob know the answer to if i played it more
timber meadow
yeah that's what i was saying
arctic walrus
So soley for the extra stun then?
timber meadow
yeah - prob not worth
arctic walrus
No, aboslutely not
timber meadow
i could also stack some more haste rocks and see if that impacts it at all
but yeah seems like it's just not worth
arctic walrus
It's 1 extra second, and you're asking if you should change your whole playstyle and do less damage
arctic walrus
Any other class can stun in the later part of your stun to clip a few extra seconds, if you really really need it that bad
timber meadow
dont think it's a big deal tbh was just lookin at different areas i could help out more
rancid bobcat
there are places you can help and places you can't. hulk is the latter
if you have a hunter in raid you can ask for them to use binding shot instead and proc prey on it during the binding
timber meadow
ye like just do kidney with 6 seconds left on binding
timber meadow
oh interesting - i thought that after the first stun if you applied a 2nd stun and the 2nd is shorter he'd start moving again as soon as the shorter of the two stuns expires
rancid bobcat
binding isn't a stun
timber meadow
i wonder if binding shot impacts hunter's dmg similar to how pooling for a full stun impacts assasin's dmg
dont know anyhting about hunters lol
arctic walrus
It being on the gcd is the most impactful as it gets
rancid bobcat
it's just something they can throw out
at most they can't take a different utility talent
arctic walrus
1/4 benthics, non bis azerite, no font
meager nebula
Font is the trinket from azshara
You should keep rolling benthic until you get the right piece with a socket yes
open reef
I was told that the trinket with Azshara bad and not needed.
meager nebula
For sin it's one of the best
loud light
told by who? font/coral is very good for raiding
true nexus
its the bees knees
open reef
the priest with the Guild
drifting cloud
well friend the raid has been out for 3 months and you can always check on warcraftlogs instead of trusting a random guy in your guild
true nexus
stop listerning to people that don't play the class go sim yourself or look at WCL
yep
top logs are usually a good indicator of what you wanna doing
however sometimes this late in the tier people start doin funky strats just to parse
on certain fights tho
drifting cloud
if hes shadow, font is really bad for them, but its bis for atleast 5 specs if not more
open reef
nooo, I in raids constantly this trinket am asking, he says why you he, me horns say that he shit.
meager nebula
If they don't play your class/spec I'd advise not listening to them when it concerns gearing, your best bet is to approach people in the discord here.
open reef
Ok
frail current
whats better for raiding atm ? assa or outlaw ?
dark crag
Both are good, later on assa has a bit more value because of boss dmg
open reef
Assassination better than outlaw on 1 boss without trash
Outlaw better than assassination on boss with trash
Sry my eng bad
distant lava
that's not really true
on paper it is but zaqul is a boss with adds
and depending on the job you want your rogue to do sin can be 1000 times better than outlaw
scarlet sequoia
royal lantern
just because outlaw can do some great padding on some fights doesnt mean they ''cheat numbers'' lol
meager nebula
seems to be within the margin of error for you, so it probably doesn't matter which you use
fallow otter
numbers for loyal are getting fairly low... like 5 so im putting it on for the team still
but yeh i was mainly interested if there was gearing that lead to ceph taking the lead
edgy pawn
but the sim doesnt take into account people dieing, right? so if there about the same, you take fish chest?
or am i wrong here?
fallow otter
yeh you're right for sure thats another reason to keep using it
dapper moat
Btw guys, with ashenvales razor coral, do you think that using a blood of the enemy as a main essence is bit too much as it overcaps crit? Should i took another essence into the main slot, like lucid dream? 😊
dapper moat
K
tropic ocean
@dapper moat u take blood for the crit dmg mostly
and you only take it for certai encounters anyway
lethal heart
blood is only used in like 2 encounters
and its mostly because of on demand burst
zaqul/azshara are bote encounters
and even then some people prefer clf on azshara
dapper moat
Aah ty guys
Suites me well as clf feels more like activate and forgot type of esdence 😊
Already panicing with the coral, but ut get bit better
dapper moat
Mainly on m+ trash fights
I usually just activate and nuke one mib down asap while i fa rest on 3,4 sized packs
Yeah i macroef it too on vendetta 😊
shrewd night
Boi, do I love having to work with two on use trinkets 
tropic ocean
you should not macro it to vendetta
in m+ use it on 1 mob in pack
and it will give u crit when mob dies
then u just activate on next mob
dapper moat
Aah
Will try it out like that, and shiennar i pray all the murlocks that i get spyglass before that azara trinket 😂
hoary crown
What essences do you guys think will be the best in 8.3 ? O.o
rigid mango
🔮
hoary crown
Yeah it is! Just horrifying to think of getting vop 😭
worldly iron
usually people mean that it's very boring rather than difficult
arctic walrus
Still though mechagon once a week lmao
scarlet sequoia
unless u have 455 socket mecha rings theres no reason not to do it weekly
hoary crown
Phhh 455 with socket, yeah try that with my luck plz
tropic ocean
@hoary crown the haste buff/cd essence reducing minor seems like a very good candidate in raid unless it has some raid wide icd or smth
olive egret
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
bold hearth
At what point does blackwater chest become better than others? currently simming worse than spymaster's for me https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4T67Lo9mbiDagBTmJB6PSC
bold hearth
Ah
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/akWqBSUzeag7XnLCh5iyAm looks like it's better at 3+ traits
rigid mango
Realistically you want 4, and should get 4 easily
bold hearth
Yea, should be pretty easy. It's raid-wide not party-wide right
cobalt pelican
yes
hallow coyote
Finally broke 50K
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wGm8CvFaRPQdMszEHbayeP
Got that BiS chestpiece from the Vendor this morning 
plush remnant
Does visions proc Nothing personal?
distant lava
yes
foggy rampart
So benthic gear, what pieces am i looking at getting, i know the crit boots is one but what else?
oh damn im an idiot found the pinned post
do i want to get all them listed in the pinned post or just a couple for in the raid
distant lava
all
stable isle
All of them preferably
foggy rampart
cool cool, just recently returned to wow so playing catch up atm
stopped at the start of BoD
stable isle
Personally I'd prioritize boots then belt/hands, then bracers. Bracers are good but it's a 1/6 for non socketed so be prepared to dump a lot of pearls into getting them
If you've got 120 Alts lying about run them through the intro mission and 1 set of follower dailies, think you should get somewhere around 75 pearls from that iirc
foggy rampart
yeah, ive got a couple of 120 alts to do that with cheers guys
scarlet sequoia
np
crisp hollow
wow cephalo is -133 dps from fish chest
long portal
fish chest op
manic cairn
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
olive egret
prismatic = highest weighted stat or what?
rigid mango
Huh?
scarlet sequoia
yes
scarlet sequoia
mutilate
tropic ocean
😄
Mutilate
Rupture
Mutilate
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
@blissful storm
blissful storm
thanks
latent gazelle
With MA opener. If you only get 3 cp with the opening Mut. Do you mut again for max cp or rupture with 3?
latent gazelle
Got it. Okay making sure I was doing it right.
olive egret
Returning player, haven't played since Uldir tier, how should I try and get weapons atm, any advice? Sitting at 400 ilvl with Uldir weaps
rigid mango
Raid
olive egret
What ilvl could I start being useful in heroic raid?
olive egret
Mk, ty
latent gazelle
Uldir weaps would prolly be lower I’ll then reg mythic weaps
Fill your conquest bar to 500 the first time for a weap also
elfin shoal
when do you guardian of azeroth?
tropic ocean
before vendetta
timber meadow
would it be odd for me to save cd's for first hulk if I'm also on full combo point stun duty?
I kinda think it would be but I don't wanna rule it out
drifting cloud
are you struggling with hulks?
rigid mango
Seems very inefficient ye
rancid bobcat
something more for your raid lead to decide
you don't want to just go applying your dps to whatever target willy nilly
brave vector
I’ve only ever done heroic mode, does the mythic hulk have that much more health? It usually dies before even reaching a seal In my raid
Seems like a waste of cds
rancid bobcat
has more health but not like disproportionately more
timber meadow
It wouldn’t be a waste if I wasn’t on stun duty
subtle tundra
any place with a delirium realm zaqul guide for us?
timber meadow
Jack and Sarah are even more of a waste tho
scarlet sequoia
who the hell are jack and sarah
timber meadow
Lol the two lovers
scarlet sequoia
do you have a hunter in the raid
timber meadow
We do and I’ve brought up just having him root so I can do a short cp stun for debuff
But others seem to think it sounds like too much to micro manage when dps can just play better as is
scarlet sequoia
binding shot is by far the easiest and best way to deal with it
drifting cloud
lol not using binding shot
timber meadow
I think they want the debuff from kidney
scarlet sequoia
yes
doesnt matter
binding shot is best
that way you can do your cds better as well
so youll have more dmg for it
drifting cloud
binding doesnt dr other stuff
timber meadow
yeah im not quite sure why everyone thinks it's a lot of micro to just binding shot and do a quick kidney after
but when ive brought it up it's pretty much just gotten pushed aside with people confident that the way we're doing it now should work dps just neds to do more dmg
crisp hollow
for M azshara, I shouldn't apply crippling poison at all right?
timber meadow
Yeah I had that issue as well - it slows the adds
i jsut take it off
doesn't provide any beenfit to the fight at all either
mystic dragon
Is it better to eat the feast or eat Mech-dowels for a food buff in a raid scenario? I've seen different guides say different things, and I thought it was almost always better to have more crit
rigid mango
Sim it.
young portal
Whatever your sim tells you to eat
red plaza
i've had to do a few different sims before with food. recommended food always suggests main stat FEAST, but when you manually change to haste food or crit food it'll sim higher
crisp hollow
how should i be using BOTE on M azshara?
mystic dragon
no CLF?
crisp hollow
BOTE is better according to logs
rigid mango
On pull, when she spawns, 1st or 2nd add depends on your CD allocation in your raid, rest on azshara
That's how you use your CD's
crisp hollow
okay so i wouldnt be holding it for anything, nice
whats a good minor in place of strife?
for that fight
rigid mango
Iris
crisp hollow
ok sweet
rigid mango
Possibly flames? But I'd just stick to iris.
edgy fulcrum
Had a question about single target stats, I see the prio for st being crit>haste>mastery, but instead of stacking those stats on top parses, people are running around 1k mastery. Why is this?
rigid mango
There's no stat prio
You sim yourself and pick accordingly
There's too many things that impact what stats your char wants to make a stat prio a viable option to base your gearing around
edgy fulcrum
So stats are basically just that close weight wise?
loud light
they're not 'close' exactly, but they vary wildly
rigid mango
At the super top end you'll find people stacking versa
No, they're insanely close.
Seeing as how any of them can be the top at any given point
edgy fulcrum
So does haste dropping off have to do with energy regen and lack of downtime?
or is there something else
loud light
we're working with a different definition of close, but fine
rigid mango
No, you saying they're not close is wrong
Haste drops off after a while because that's just how the stat inherently works
It has insane value until it hits a cliff where it just doesn't gain as much
edgy fulcrum
gotcha, thanks 🙂
rigid mango
See, haste's the worst there, but it'd be the best if you'd drop a small amount down
Very volatile.
edgy fulcrum
Yea its very weird compared to other classes, makes gearing tough though lol
rigid mango
It's not that tough tbh.
Simming does all the hard work
Sin doesn't have a "bad" stat atm
rigid mango
That and then just constant top gear sims
strange python
Boyz for mm+ who's Azerite s better echoing blade or shrouded?
rigid mango
shrouded
strange python
Ok so 3 shrouded +Nothing personnal?
rigid mango
3 ss 1 eb + ttks, another eb, or bbi
tropic ocean
@gusty kestrel
not close, yeah
well it comes down to the individual character
but they are not always close
sadly
I still miss 2 op so haste will lose even more value
do you use iris minor?
and/or mechagon haste ring set
I use both so thats a good chunk of haste
strange python
Hey boyz here are my Top gear SIM https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/izHN7M2znLQ6pkZTXkmczc i have many azerite piece but i don't know which traits pick for mm+ and raid... if someone have 10min to spend!!! ty!!!
red plaza
strange python
Yeah benthic better xD
naive bone
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
red plaza
M+ just go outlaw tbh. Frothing rage shoulders with ace + deadshot, and for the helm and chest just make sure you have at least 1 wits, and then a combo of ace/deadshot/brigands will work
strange python
Ok ty for thr aid setup it will help me alot!!!
naive bone
!help
sonic ferry
!no
naive bone
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
crisp hollow
whats an "acceptable" dungeon slice sim to aim for
DS simming for 55k when my patchwerk is 51k seems wrong
arctic walrus
First of all dslice is pretty bad for sin
And there is nothing to aim for
And sin won’t sim a crazy amount different because it’s damage doesn’t get as inflated aswould outlaw for example when you introduce aoe
crisp hollow
i was so excited to finally have all 450 pieces for a sin M+ set
even tho i'd only actually push as outlaw
strange python
For M+ should I use Beam or Blood for major, just got the 3rd rank on beam
About to enter a 10, and have no idea
arctic walrus
Blood is generally better
gusty shore
On Ravenholdt for openers it says to use vanish when the first empowered garrote is about to fall off but also says to pair vanish with vendetta, but doing it after the first one breaks the sync between the CDs. What is the correct way to do that in st ?
woeful hare
Depends if you are running SF or MA
With Subter you will use it to refresh garrote, while with Master you will use it in the vendetta window after TB
For single target the MA build is the better, so you should aim at having 0 SS traits for that
torn sparrow
Is Blood of the Enemy worth using at only rank 2 for mythic+ in the 15 key range? Or is it bad until rank 3? I have a lot of trouble trying to sim for mythic+
grave trail
do you always mutilate > rupture > mut > garrote on openenr
even if u dont get 4cp on first mut
before rupture
MA of course
arctic walrus
@torn sparrow no blood unless it's rank 3
@grave trail always at 4+ cp
so if mut doesn't crit ti'll be mut mut rupture
torn sparrow
I see, thank you
arctic walrus
Becasue they're critting.
grave trail
do i have the worst luck lol
so if i dont crit 2x mut> rupture> mut?
or MA would be over by then
arctic walrus
You will always get 2 muts and 1 rupture in your MA window
this simply just changes the order
grave trail
gotcha
is it possible to get 4 envenoms out of lust phase?
i mean is it usual
should be the question
arctic walrus
assuming you're talking about tb?
grave trail
yeah
TB phase
even with pooling energy it seems hard to get 4 evenom
unless u crit all my muts
i*
arctic walrus
It's possible, but you have to crit all 3 of your mutilates
rancid bobcat
just crit
thorn galleon
Any tips for delerium realm on za qul,
young portal
If you're in there often, drop a bit of haste as it's useless in there. Remember to still avoid tentacles around the outside as well as the slams in the middle. Take leeching poison over cheat death, use crimson vial on cd. Essences you wanna take are blood major, lucid and vop minor if you're in them all
distant lava
blood major and vop minor make it so blood and vendetta are up for second echo if you use them on the first
that's why you pick them
if you don't do both I'd go classic sin
spiral escarp
what's the "vop" essence?
rigid mango
Vision of perfection
spiral escarp
oh thanks 🙂
sick scarab
guys for aoe m+ ging 3 suffocation + 3 echoing blades... good or crap ?
rigid mango
3 SS + 1 eb + 1 more eb if u want the aoe, ttk or bbi
royal lantern
you dont really need 3xeb this season
sick scarab
ttk and bbi means ? 🙂
rigid mango
Today, 16/10 there was a fix to lucid sims for sin, so if you find your sim getting a random increase of ~300 DPS, that'd be the reason why.
rigid mango
pearl ingot
Hey guys when playing elaborate planning how do i max my DPS due to pooling Energy effectiv?
Do you think it is okay to change my 445 boots to 410 crit inc benthic with socket for EP or will i only benefit from them in max itemlvl?
royal lantern
benthic gear for raids always
you could sim that btw
and you dont really play around EP
pearl ingot
I am new to raiding and simming with raidbots did the geartesting prior with askmrrobot ;/ sorry
royal lantern
it has a high uptime by default, if you get lucky mutiltate crits/lucid procs and you can envenom multiple times outside of TB windows, wait before it runs out before you do a new envenom, but thats really the maximum of ''playing around elaboarate planning''
rigid mango
Raidbots.
royal lantern
do topgear in raidbots, make sure too activate the ''im in naz/have4 teammates with loyal''checkbox, and just sim your boots
btw zine, just when i thought about it
lets say you have only 5 people with loyal and 1 dies
does that mean the mastery bonus is lower?
never checked that one
strange python
Is inkpod good for assa rogue?
rigid mango
It's aight.
strange python
Because it sims so bad
rigid mango
How come it sims "so bad"?
strange python
Im conflicted if I should swap out my 415 Azharas font of power for a 430 inkpod
rigid mango
Simming it
strange python
Since I already have another on use trinket
royal lantern
font+coral is the normal sin trinket setup right now
strange python
Do I just pop coral on cd?
rigid mango
Pins my doodat
strange python
Oh ye
strange python
But I mean if you pop font doesnt coral go on a 20 sec cd?
rigid mango
strange python
Thanks 😄
dapper moat
It says that use coral with vendetta but when opening, u basicly have only few crit counters when its vendetta time..
vast forum
you don't have the crit bonus on first vendetta
scarlet sequoia
hell yeah
shut garnet
do you mean a fix of the code for the sim
or an actual "buff" to how lucid works with sin
in game
rigid mango
Just sim.
vast forum
because it wasn't our best minor alrdy
sinful island
Crit + mastery for m+, right? How much % haste do you usually go with?
arctic walrus
Like 8
vast forum
as little as possible
visual topaz
Could some1 help me with couple things in opener without SS ?
like what point i use essence and trinkets etc
arctic walrus
What essences and which trinkets
grim topaz
should i go less haste and more crit and mastery on zarqul myth, when i go in delirium all the time?
visual topaz
@arctic walrus Condensed and the font trinket
true nexus
generally speaking what three azerite pieces are the overall best for raiding sin
is it blackwater chest, zaqul helm and tidal drifter?
verbal knot
Man I got 455 socketed boots from Radiance last night and not even close to benthic
On the plus side I got a 98 parse on mythic sivara
rigid mango
Goraks.
tropic ocean
@verbal knot gz
verbal knot
Thanks, and it's really from this discord. You guys helped me a lot, I was parsing green when I first started asking questions
tropic ocean
nice you improved that much
scarlet sequoia
np
young portal
@grim topaz definitely drop some haste, I just dropped it and split between crit+vers as it's the only gear I had to replace it. I'm sure crit+mastery is fine tho
grim topaz
even if you just play 1 split there?
tropic ocean
unless you go for adds not worth dropping haste
young portal
If you're only doing 1 echo I'd take normal sin build tbh
tropic ocean
and for log going first delirium and not doing adds is good
leaden belfry
Do you guys think i should buy Lucid dreams rank 3 or upgrade my benthic? gloves are 410, boots 415, waist 415 and wrist 385 ? ty :)
rigid mango
Lucid
leaden belfry
kk, ty
dapper dock
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
undone coral
Is it even worth it to make a level 19 Twink anymore?
royal lantern
making twinks was never worth it 🤷
bronze spire
is undulating tides really better than DD I have heard it performs better in sims but not in raid
latent gazelle
^^ wish i would of started saving for goraks months asgo
blissful storm
I gambled for Gorak, got it on 7th try, not worth it xd
topaz vine
i wish i hadnt been lazy for the last 3 weeks .. i dont like saving.. tried gamble for it a few times and now i cba 😆
verbal knot
I gambled for it and it was the first one I get get at me
I usually have terrible luck
was like 1500 pearls for my bracers and still only got pufferfish
bronze spire
at this point idek that im gunna save for it I been maining my warrior atm. so it really ain't worth it rn lol
royal lantern
pufferfish is fine
verbal knot
I know, the different in sim is like 40 dps
royal lantern
unless you really REALLY need that 0,2%more dmg
verbal knot
I was going to go with either one, whichever rolled a socket first
but secretly deep down I was hoping for that .2% lol
timber meadow
Damn some people had crazy bad luck
Think it took me just over 1000 pearls to get every good piece socketed
rancid granite
For me boots took ages.. bracers and belt i got within 3 tries... (off-topic)
mystic dragon
When you sim loyal to the end, does it sim giving you the buff the entire time? Or does it kick in at a certain point
scarlet sequoia
u know loyal is like a permanent thing right
u only get a buff when someone with the trait dies
scarlet sequoia
and sims do not do people dying
mystic dragon
Kk, wasn’t sure how it worked, I know it gives the flat mastery, but wasn’t sure if it was simming for the death buff
subtle tundra
survival guide for zaqul delirium pls?
mystic dragon
I’ve just cookie’d, abyssal, crimson, don’t stand in tentacles and you should be fine
It’s hard as hell to see at first glance, but once you know what you’re looking for you should be fine
arctic walrus
Leeching poison
subtle tundra
also how long does the tentacle take to slam?
timber meadow
Ya leeching poison opaf
quasi pewter
i think 6 seconds
mighty torrent
hey guys, been wondering this for a while but can't seem to find info. Is it better to use second potion with second use of CLF or the second Vendetta+font window?
nimble tinsel
@mighty torrent Prio probably looks something like Lust > CLF > All else.
rancid bobcat
get a weakaura for tentacles, there's plenty out there
mighty torrent
@nimble tinsel perfect thanks 🙂
worthy glacier
Hey guys, was wondering how to sim for Azshara mythic since u dont use lust on pull, theres a shit ton of targets swaps and so on..
sonic ferry
hardcore simmer btw haHAA
rancid bobcat
fight is mostly ST and times where you can cleave off of an add doesn't change things much
unreal atlas
yo, rerolling for err.. reasons, is it possible even playing assa without Nothing's Personal? got like diff mythicc pieces but none of them have it
unreal atlas
fair, all i read around had that one counted in it so i figured
scarlet sequoia
np is pretty overrated
40 energy over 20 seconds isnt very exciting
u definitely dont need it
rigid mango
It's p bonks as a one of
arctic walrus
It'll smooth out your rotation in the back during the window, but it's not break or make or the spec
scarlet sequoia
ye ofc
rigid mango
But it doesn't do much after that, it's simply outscaled at higher ends
unreal atlas
arctic walrus
If people are comparing it to 1 wits for outlaw as 1 np for sin, that's pretty stupid
rocky ruin
in the MA opener if i do multi-rup-multi-garrote (got here 5cp) do i here vendetta with tb or not?
rigid mango
You always TB regardless of CP
strange python
should i use lucid dreams on M ashvane?
dark crag
Bote for mythic azshara?
dark crag
Is iris minor ok for azshara? I don't have strife r3
tropic ocean
your friend has tricked you nicely then
dark crag
Yeah did my first tries today and got to p3 add2
hollow vault
what's with bote on m azshara?
arctic walrus
More uses and just generally more versatile than clf
tropic ocean
@hollow vault it lines up good with the points where you need high burst dps
push before beckons, add1, bl
light ferry
What would you use to sim for M+?
tropic ocean
Fuu‘s dungeon slice
sonic ferry
any1 got good sim for world questing
hazy geyser
how many stacks do you set loyal to the end to when you sim pieces?
tough dome
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hazy geyser
i think 3?
does it always get displayed on wipes? i thought there was a chance for it to proc
strange python
On which fights in EP can inkpod be better than standard font+coral?
tropic ocean
It can be better on every fight if it crits
true nexus
really
bronze wagon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kmariVtDfZXJTSGWMDZk4w do you guys think the other variation with blightborne infusion with haste gems is better or no?
tropic ocean
the one that sims higher is better
strange python
@tropic ocean but do you know, based on personal experience, on which boss inkpod could be very good, eg font/coral is hard to use due to boss timings etc?
tropic ocean
inkpod is good on every boss
It just needs to crit
If it crits it csn be superior to font
If it doesnt its not
strange python
xD
tropic ocean
and coral font is pretty easy to use as you use it always the same way no matter what boss
strange python
fine ty for answer
arctic walrus
On paper, font/coral will be your best bet
However in execution, many will choose to forego the annoyance of having the double on use
People like Nukkz, one of the top parsing rogues, chooses to exclusively run coral/inkpod
The majority however, run coral/font
agile oar
Hey guys what should i take for essences for mythic plus
not really sure what to take
using Guard with iris and lucid
arctic walrus
blood lucid c&s
remote oak
agile oar
@arctic walrus
arctic walrus
I mean yeah big packs give it more value
magic sparrow
I use the frost damage wrist and crit boots bethic gear. is the Physical dmg belt and the frostdmg/heal gloves worth using?
magic sparrow
450 belt with a socket and a 430 gloves with a socket
grave trail
so for parsing is it worth using a ring which raises ur ilevel but increases dps by 200
magic sparrow
rigs are tricky, you should try and go for the best stats you can have through them (they carry alot of stats) and often that will end up being the highest dmging rings anyways
cobalt pelican
idk what you mean, use the one that gives you the best damage
nobody gives a shit about ilvl parse
arctic walrus
Ilvl does nothing for your pArse just do the most damage
grave trail
ok
arctic walrus
It’s easy just get full rank 1 ilvl parses 
grave trail
i mean ilvl parse matters to some extent
ilevel = more stats so its kinda good to use as measurement
arctic walrus
I mean eh
grave trail
like would you use an item that gives you 100 more dps but 3 more ilevel over all
arctic walrus
With shit like benthic and titanforging it’s better to just compare yourself against the entire rogue pool
cobalt pelican
yes
arctic walrus
Ilvl doesn’t mean anything
grave trail
give me good reason why
cobalt pelican
because you do more damage
grave trail
cause its 50 less or 100 less?
cobalt pelican
and what do you gain
grave trail
a better ilevel parse
cobalt pelican
and who is looking at ilvl parse
grave trail
lot of people do
mighty crown
but no one cares about ilvl parses, so just do the most damage you can do
cobalt pelican
no they really don't
grave trail
some guilds do if they dont have high ilevel
arctic walrus
@ then
cobalt pelican
a few uninformed people do, usually when their overall parse is low but their ilvl parse is high
grave trail
doesnt that mean that you can play your spec to some extent but limited to gear
cobalt pelican
no
grave trail
so if i have an alt how do i measure if im doing enough dps?
grave trail
lets say an alt thats 430
cobalt pelican
because it's a real 438 ilvl
and not a 'dam lol did some m+' 438 ilvl
use overall parse and set realistic goals?
grave trail
see you dont get what im trying to say tho XD
arctic walrus
Ilvl parses are A measure of how well you can do
hidden bay
arctic walrus
But overall is what overall matters dude
grave trail
exactly i know doing more dmg matters but how do i measure how good im doing on a character
if its like 432 ilevel
arctic walrus
Yeah I’m not gonna parse top 10 on my 418 dk but I can get 95+ ilvl
cobalt pelican
use overall parse
arctic walrus
No at that level if it’s your main you should be looking at overall
grave trail
or you can use ilevel parse and compare to others?
cobalt pelican
?
so your options are
compare to the entire playerbase, and get an accurate depiction of your standing
or compare to 300 players who have your ilvl, some who are decked to the teeth in raid gear an some are 30k simmers
hmm i wonder
mighty crown
you're trying to justify using a worse piece of gear to parse better for ilvl
grave trail
go look
cobalt pelican
no they don't
people wear good gear
this is normal raid gear
for a normal raider
arctic walrus
Nobody does that lol
grave trail
thats not point trying to make
cobalt pelican
if you filter ilvl brackets to like the 410 lvl you might found some mouthbreather raiding without his cape on or something
but how that guy is relevant to anything if you're trying to do better idk
grave trail
that means you're performing good with your spec
and with more gear ull do more dps
i know the higher ilevel more skilled players or w/e
nobody arguing against that
mighty crown
except we have benthic and sockets
cobalt pelican
that's not what anyone has said
mighty crown
so thats not true at all
cobalt pelican
the 445 ilvl bracket is probably full of morons
and like 5 players who are insanely lucky
cobalt pelican
it's not even benthic specific, it's every slot of gear you have besides weapons that lower ilvl pieces can be better than higher ilvl pieces
hidden bay
any 442 brackets in the chat? 
grave trail
like sockets or bis stats yeah i get that
and since rings dont give main stat
its good way to boost parse and believe me some people do just to parse ilevl lol
cobalt pelican
well, maybe they do
i've never met one
and i'd bet they're probably not very good to begin with
arctic walrus
I would love to meet these some people
hidden bay
Link em
cobalt pelican
probably the same secret society that go for healing logs as a rogue
grave trail
why you can do it yourself
arctic walrus
It's your arguement you gotta provide the proof
hidden bay
🦀
arctic walrus
I wouldn't even know where to look
hidden bay
u say people exist who do that but u dont have any proof? 
arctic walrus
guild cloaks and murloco are probably one of the main reasons people have low ilvls
hidden bay
Almost 6 minute kill 
arctic walrus
If you are on an equal playing field, you do not have the luxury of looking at ilvl parses
hidden bay
hidden bay
grave trail
what do the colors mean anyways
drifting cloud
drifting cloud
it is ok, nobody cares about ilvl parses you just havent figured it out yet
cobalt pelican
i wish i was a priest main or something so at least when people were asking dumb questions there was like an 80/20 chance they were an guwurl
unfortunate i live the edgerouge life
drifting cloud
try making your point in a tier where benthic doesnt exist
it will atleast make 5% more sense
arctic walrus
tbh can you restate your point/arguement
hidden bay
True ilvl blaster ive equipped my lower 442 gear for that
grave trail
and how you're performing
cobalt pelican
i think it was generally just 'ilvl parse gives a better metric of player performance than overall parse'
hidden bay
hate that boss 
grave trail
lmfao def not
drifting cloud
or you equip gear that sims worse than benthic
grave trail
im 435 ilevel and i sim almost 51k