It’s the order hall ability
#assassination
stuck knoll
fleet whale
it's a flavor spell. You get it from the order hall
stuck knoll
Gives a short gcd when used
fathom wyvern
that i dont have
also progressing that fight atm
i kick/tricks/evasion and then use shadowstep for a soak
stuck knoll
I found it useful because it was always available as a combo breaker
fathom wyvern
thats good tho, need to look into that
stuck knoll
Though it’s not optimal cuz you’re missing gcds
rigid mango
Sin, missing GCD's
fathom wyvern
ye ofc
rigid mango
fathom wyvern
i mean, atm every time that happens ive managed to get kick/tricks and then refresh garrote
and often im lucky with crits and get 4 cp from mut so i can insta envenom
fleet whale
there are also moments that you can just mut/envenom if you're lucky with crits
fathom wyvern
ye exactly
fleet whale
that mechanic is a bigger issue for sub and outlaw
fathom wyvern
but how are you that have killed boss dealing with it? atm im assigned to hug silviaz even after dropped 35% hp, rest of grp is on other boss
like, my own dps its no problem since its more or less a target dummy fight for me with a soak, but hows the best way to deal with it as a sin, do i want to hug 1 boss?
stuck knoll
From what I know you would ideally run around dotting both
But that might be more bother than it’s worth
At this stage you should have the dps that that won’t matter
fathom wyvern
atm fights kinda messy to do that since our boss positioning isnt optimal so its more a loss in dps and uptime for minimal split dmg
stuck knoll
Basically what I did as I was soaking was just slap the guy we were hitting at the time and pay attention to which soaks are solo’d with externals
I was playing outlaw but the premise is the same
It’s a pretty shit boss all around
fathom wyvern
ah, im sin to get more boss dmg... basiclly i hug boss at all time besides the charge soak and to help out with spark under boss
ye... as melee the fight is boring actually
lethal heart
wasnt mentioned, can use tricks aswell to not get silenced on queens court
i wouldnt recommend using sprint/step to avoid being silenced
stuck knoll
forgot that one
lethal heart
sometimes it just doesnt matter
and being able to quickly multiodt
is nice
tbf as long as you dont cap energy
it doesnt matter to be silenced
as you're still melee hitting
even if silenced
fathom wyvern
for me its more like im starved xD
lethal heart
the only time where you're gonna be overcapping on that fight is idk
getting sick overwhelming procs with bleeds on both targets
besides opener obv
so getting silenced doesnt really matter much
fathom wyvern
sin burst is funny, esp when i outburst destro lock in guild havocing both targets and im only on 1 😄
lethal heart
i think 'optimal' way to play the bosss is to open on pashmar and quickly shadowstep melee guy and do your opener
at least i believe it is
idk
your goal is to have as much uptime on rupture/garrote on both targets as possible
fathom wyvern
so garrote -> mut -> rupture on pash
then shadowstep, dot silv up, pop rock boi and then vendetta burst?
prestack CP before vendetta burst ofc
quasi halo
for ashvane is it worth holding vendetta until shield breaks
rigid mango
Depends on what your RL says
fathom wyvern
we hold all dps cds except outlaw AR for when shield breaks
since AR is up for it anyway
hazy geyser
i think i need some help with my logs. i think they are decent but i really want to get higher parses i have been getting better gear, but my guild has been having some issues and the kill times are starting to get longer is there a way i can do better with what i am dealing with or is parse too dependent on kill times https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/37420356?mode=detailed&zone=23#metric=dps&partition=1&bybracket=0
sonic ferry
u open with garrote and u arent even using subterfuge
sonic ferry
so minor cant even do opener right
rigid mango
Huh? I'm just saying it's pretty much irrelevant
rigid mango
I'm just saying, the diff is so small that you wont ever notice it in the end
quasi pewter
he was looking for ways to improve his parses, thats not gonna do anything tho
rigid mango
Lol
sonic ferry
may aswell take a gem out ur gear
rigid mango
It wont be anything noticeable
sonic ferry
its only minor
quasi pewter
a gem is not minor
rigid mango
Nono, gem isn't minor
quasi pewter
a gem is 250 dps give or take
rigid mango
He diff in opener is like
sonic ferry
hes doing 50k
quasi pewter
maybe
rigid mango
Sub 50
rigid mango
I think it's about 20-30
sonic ferry
may aswell delete ravenholdt guide
quasi pewter
rigid mango
Wat
You've obv not been here long enough
That opener was in the guide just before EP opened
It only got changed because of the surrounding confusion
Even though it's in fact, fantastically minor
scarlet sequoia
np
naive bone
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sonic ferry
its an opener why would u ust not do whats best
wat kind of mindset is that
sub optimal before the pull
rigid mango
I'm not saying you shouldn't use the new one, just saying it's ultimatly irrelevant for your log
20 dps wont be the diff
99% of the time
scarlet sequoia
1 thing to point out on your sivara log
you did it a bit wrong
in the opener with tb etc
rigid mango
I kept on doing the old opener for like, first 4 bosses or smth in the tier
Bec I was more comfy that way
scarlet sequoia
@hazy geyser
u seem to do tb > mutilate > envenom quite a lot
looking at your best sivara log anyways
also you basically missed an entire toxic blade because you held it for 23 seconds
not super optimal
rigid mango
hazy geyser
When toxic is on 10 sec cd do you use it and delay vendetta or do you save it and vendetta on cd
scarlet sequoia
that’s where you have to look at your kill times, if your kill time is below 4 minutes ish then you’ll only get 2 vendettas so it doesn’t really matter when you use the 2nd one, just use it whenever it lines up the best, personally I would use it as late as possible to have as many coral stacks as possible, or something like that
If your kill time is more than 4 minutes then you wanna vendetta asap, so delaying tb is worth it in that case
pearl pagoda
is razor corral really good for azhara?
i feel for the first two or three phases its not very strong
edgy pawn
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dapper wraith
what azerite are people running for orgo M ?
I see a lot of EB/SoB but is that for real or just padding?
arctic walrus
It depends on what you need. If you want add damage, you go the eb/sob. If you want strictly ST, go for your regular ST build. If you need a good mix of both, I'd recommend going outlaw
@pearl pagoda it's good because you still can manage good value out of it. Apart from the first phase, you'll have a few stacks of coral for each tidemistress, and then a few more for the burn phase after 50%
crisp hollow
can I get log analysis on these behemoth and ashvane kills? I want to parse on these fights but I struggle with how I should open on fish and idk if it's possible to get a high one on lady if we're holding CDs
Fish: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/40591408?mode=detailed&zone=23#boss=2289&metric=dps&difficulty=5&partition=1&spec=Assassination
Lady: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2GNXdRVWL9Zb4xcK#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=3
also do I need to be padding on little radiance adds to get orange on that fight?
rancid bobcat
with 2 phase ashvane kills you parse by not holding cds
so youll have to sneak it by your raid lead
crisp hollow
means I have 1 shot to do it and hope it's a kill
can only use the "sorry, autopilot" excuse once
arctic walrus
Even then, you're lusting at 2nd break, sohighly unlikely you'll parse high
Your best on fish, your damage is way too low and you're getting 3 phases, drops your damage significantly
crisp hollow
like group overall damage?
arctic walrus
Yes
crisp hollow
ahh damn
yeah idk for some reason groups I've ran with struggle to kill that thing cleanly
do everything else fine but shit the bed on fish
arctic walrus
At this point in the tier, parsing at the very high end is reserved for very quick kill times and groups dedicated to padding
crisp hollow
yeah i'm content with just purple on most
zaq, orgo, and azshara probably a writeoff too for personal stats
arctic walrus
You're also not lining up coral correctly with font
You vendetta like 12-16 seconds after font
so your tb vanish and tb all line up
dark crag
Aim for 95
Should be doable
Did some more aggressive dotting and spread debuff at court, my parse went a bit up. I could dot even more to get high ink stacks on both
arctic walrus
inkpod on court seems a bit whack
lost horizon
i flounder on court tbh
i like the fight but i can't seem to do very well on it
i'll just stick to my 'raidleading kills my damage' fallback excuse
honest needle
on last boss in raid do u guys dot both adds in beginingg if u run NP and DD
or do u just focus 1
nimble vault
Am I drunk or does venomous wounds sometimes not work?
royal lantern
What do you mean with that
nimble vault
I swear sometimes my energy regen will slow right down/not get the spikes from wounds proccing. Probably just me being a goof, but figured I'd ask in case there was a known bug
royal lantern
Weeell
If you have stuff like OP etc....that gives you a big haste proc,your energy generation will change a bit midfight
+lucid dreams procs too
nimble vault
I think it's just that I have enough haste now that the energy from wounds isn't as spiky feeling if that makes sense lol. Thanks for confirming bud
arctic walrus
@honest needle yeah only when they're together
ember rover
This might sound stupid, but are you sure your poison is up on the target?
Your dots outlast your poison, so if you have bleeds on a secondary target, the poison will run out quite a lot earlier than your bleeds will making you not get any energy for a big chunk of bleeds if you don't re-apply the poison.
signal orbit
hi new to rogue, was reading up on the ravenholdt website with openers and was wonder if the section that says has master assassin talented means that u open with mutilate or does it follow another opener?
rigid mango
No, it opens with mutilate out of stealth
outer sorrel
Is it possible to solo soak frenetic charge with cloak on Queen's Court ?
rigid mango
Yah
drifting cloud
well technically no, since you dont get targeted as a rogue 
drifting cloud
its not useless, theres 1 or 2 where it overlaps with other stuff and you can cloak soak it with the other guy so raid doesnt have to move
the other guy just needs a decent personal or he gets like a sac
upbeat geode
Guys im using font+coral, im not sure when to use my 2nd vanish, do i use it on TB after 2nd font? or do i use it on the font+coral window?
rigid mango
I think the apl uses TB with vend, vanish with coral
But I talked to koji and any way you spin it it does +- same damage
I just use tb and vanish with vend
upbeat geode
Vend it up the whole time so thats no problem
thanks!
i was expecing +- same dmg, but i just wanted to be sure
rigid mango
Aslong as you use it after vend you essentially get half of the TB with vanish, half with coral
leaden belfry
Hi, can anyone have some time for me and can analyze my logs and tell me what i do wrong pls? https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LBfY9jw3dKRv6h1n#fight=4&type=damage-done ty :)
stuck knoll
@leaden belfry who are you in that log
upbeat geode
you parsed 96% for ilvl, you are doing fine, you mainly need more gear
solid nova
Not entirely true
Your gear is bad, but you made a lot of rotational errors too
Looking at just ilvl parse doesn't really help
You've got a lot of triple mutilates overcapping CPs, and TB windows arent planned properly
Example
lethal heart
ideally you get 3 envenoms each tb window
leaden belfry
ah ye if my tb is gonna refresh should i garrote/rupture enven if its not on a "refresh" window ?
solid nova
This is questionable too
You held TB and could have refreshed rupture earlier whilst still in pandemic
Pot could have been stacked as well
Missed envenom casts too because of the extra mutilates
This for example, is unnecessary overcapping
young portal
In your opener, you vanished then used TB. Should be the other way round, TB is the last thing you hit before vanish into env
leaden belfry
ah ye i see :/ ty didnt knew that Barker
I have still a lots of things to practice then ty guys for your help :)
solid nova
scarlet sequoia
np
modest tendon
Do people use ss for queens court boss?
stuck knoll
No just run normal stuff
modest tendon
And just shadowstep on cd to maintain dots, that’s the basic trick to it right?
bleak spoke
Step and sprint get around repeat performance which kinda owns @modest tendon
modest tendon
You mean to like alternate between the two to get optimal dot uptime?
tropic ocean
@modest tendon you can play qc with ss+subter
bleak spoke
Nah more like uh
tropic ocean
but its literally no difference to ma and non ss so
modest tendon
I can go 2ss
bleak spoke
You need to mutilate again so you like sprint muti then leave to dot the other one etc
tropic ocean
?
on qc whenever u have shadowstep available
u refresh the dots on your current mob
and step other mob
and you repeat that whenever shadowstep is off cooldown
bleak spoke
Assuming you’re talking about M, there’s a moment the other ones gonna be dragged far that’s in your Tb window you probably want to step to chase if it’s a monk
That’s also in repeat perf
Cuz of speed taunt outpacing you etc
like this is when the first circle spawns https://i.imgur.com/IwrWFuf.png
basically work the expiration of your buffs and try to play in the redot windows and don't worry too much about redotting as long as you have like
bleeds that are on poisoned targets
you'll come to this realization that like as long as your poisons are active and on it doesn't matter what you do really so feel free to play in cd windows on a non bled target as long as somewhere you have bleeds rolling kinda
just remember that like an envenom in tb > a rupture > an envenom out of tb for the purposes of dpet
worldly iron
apply coral on pull
did you pre-font?
yeah I see that now, I mean you'd want to save font for when the shield goes down
and you should probably use coral stacks for the second break, so you get big crit with every cooldown + hero
you don't want font and vendetta out of sync
gleaming viper
guys, im pretty sure i read here how to use azshara trinket but i cant retrieve it
scarlet sequoia
oh no
rough agate
its in tc updates
gleaming viper
ty bro !
rough agate
Thought it was pinned too but guess not
scarlet sequoia
it is
gleaming viper
its not
rough agate
ah its pinned here in the faq part
solid nova
It is 🙂
gleaming viper
its for coral and font
rough agate
look in this channel pins and scroll down to the frequently asked questions pin its there
tropic ocean
so what trinket combo you wanna use?
gleaming viper
the proper use of azshara trinket
tropic ocean
pair it so you get the buff during vendetta
tropic ocean
yes
scarlet sequoia
what are u even confused about
gleaming viper
i just want to retrieve this information
scarlet sequoia
yeah but its literally in the pins
tropic ocean
you use font before pull
its 30 sec duration
so u get full duration of it during vendetta
you want to use font as close to the pull as you can which is usually 5seconds
but many use it 6 seconds before to be safe from ninjapullers
after that you just keep channeling it before vendetta comes off cd
so u get 20seconds of trinket with 20seconds vendetta
gleaming viper
oh ure right, my brain is break i read font but thinking inking :p
scarlet sequoia
hate it when that happens
tropic ocean
ty raz
gleaming viper
ty ausg
scarlet sequoia
ty zdhar
scarlet sequoia
whenever you are going to vendetta!
gleaming viper
ty its clear :p
tropic ocean
it depends on your trinkets
if u use coral+inkpod u let it stack until 30% boss hp
if u use it solo, always ashvane crit+vendetta
if you use font+ashvane = pins
gleaming viper
thanks again !
scarlet sequoia
your brain is fix?
gleaming viper
yes 😄
scarlet sequoia
😄
arctic walrus
Np
honest vessel
ive been using BoTE after ven-tb and then vanish directly after into env, is that right
honest vessel
oop
tropic ocean
its right yes
heavy trail
I just farmed purification rank3 for zaqul, now I'm going into delirium with bote and vision 
I hate unsyncing my vanish 
steep obsidian
lol
the dps check is reasonlbly trivial for downstairs with the gear people have now
and traits
steep obsidian
we did the first delirrium regularly with 1 person missing going down
and kill it this week after like 80 pulls or somethin
blissful tide
@honest vessel big dumb asking questions
scarlet sequoia
@summer moon bro
u need to fix your gear
here is your best
idk the gems tho
u can do that yourself
summer moon
really thanks
honest vessel
@blissful tide yo least I'm on time for raid
scarlet sequoia
really np
blissful tide
They sat me for 2 weeks straight hello? My response time was only like 3 minutes that isn’t too bad @honest vessel
honest vessel
@blissful tide bannete looking ass
scarlet sequoia
ofc thats max pad
scarlet sequoia
ye its in
scarlet sequoia
@steep obsidian u can get more dps btw
steep obsidian
yeah i know
severe sedge
raz give me some dps too! ill take 100=)
scarlet sequoia
i check, moment
steep obsidian
im fucking so glad i got don with all that garbage months ago
although that and essences are why i havent bothered with any of my alts
severe sedge
spend x time get x dps
scarlet sequoia
np
shy dust
Raz will I get Gorak tuls next week
scarlet sequoia
possibility
severe sedge
deadly on MH?
scarlet sequoia
ye its usually better
force is only really better than deadly if you have quite high crit
severe sedge
i rly need some sockets
cant use those shoulders for assa, its my outlaw gorgonzola pewpew soulders:P
but i guess you gave me some dps with that enchant, so im happy
free dps is free!
scarlet sequoia
that is unfortunate and np
severe sedge
i posted a log before
mind checking
got the tip to not prepull font
all cds saved for burns
scarlet sequoia
sure ill have a look
severe sedge
and my parse is shit ...
guess most guilds do same strat so i cant blame the kill timer for my bad pars
scarlet sequoia
atm if u want a really high parse on ashvane u have to lust and everything on pull
you wont parse high if you have to hold cds for whenever shield is down
anyways looking at the log, your first cds you did tb > clf > vendetta > etc
u wanna clf first before tb > vendetta
u got 3 envenoms in the tb anyways but u never know, if u had crit a mutilate and gotten 4 cps u couldve had 4 envenoms in the tb
severe sedge
its the holding cd part
scarlet sequoia
wym
severe sedge
makes me mess up
scarlet sequoia
ah
i guess u can just work on that 😛
anyways
if u look at your other tb windows u tend to like, not really optimize them very well
often only getting 1 envenom and using rupture instead which sucks
severe sedge
worth to let rupture fall off?
scarlet sequoia
no, you have to plan better
scarlet sequoia
or just refresh rupture before the tb yeah
u can just hold tb for 2-3 seconds if u have to
it doesnt matter that much
scarlet sequoia
ill look
im not a log expert so idk if i can see your energy at certain times ngl but ye it looks like u take a few seconds before every tb
severe sedge
so biggers issue is my rupture during tb?
scarlet sequoia
ya
severe sedge
never do that and just envenom, try to get rupture up before if it will fall off
scarlet sequoia
just plan better tbh
severe sedge
if i mess up, is it woth to let it fall off?
scarlet sequoia
no
scarlet sequoia
if u go in to tb with like 9-10 seconds of rupture left
somber bison
Anyone know how big vop buff is for 8.3
scarlet sequoia
at least what i do
is just to say fuck it and let it drop off at the end, id rather get another envenom in tb and let rupture fall off for 1-2 seconds
and then just mutilate once and rupture with whatever cp i get
but this shouldnt happen more than once or twice a fight
just work on your planning and stuff
severe sedge
thanks for your help!
scarlet sequoia
np
young portal
np
robust river
M+ this week with it being boss HP boost. Is it worth taking a bit more haste? Feel like I suck ass on the bosses.
Running 2 EB 2SS 1DD 1 Tradewinds at present (best M+ gear I think I have)
Ideally I'd get rid of DD for TTK but just don't have it available
steep obsidian
you always gonna suck a bit with 2 traits that do nothing single target on bosses
robust river
Alternative to DD is ULdating Tides which isn't realiable in M+ sadly.
Just accept the sucking on ST then and that bosses will take a little longer?
steep obsidian
i mean you can sim that gear for single target and min max it a bit for that? but you building for aoe
i miss being able to swap gear in dungeons 😦
gusty mirage
It's kinda frustrating they won't let us at least swap out our azerite pieces if they're forcing us to build around AoE or build around ST with traits, although I get why its the way it is. Adding the whole planning your comp/traits adds a nice layer instead of mindlessly going in
I do enjoy tyran weeks though, because my group is like "alright, go full ST we got the AoE covered with the other 2 dps"
tropic ocean
U dont really change dor tyran
Less eb more ttk/ss is it
u still fight majority of dungeon vs trash
gusty mirage
I just wish there was a way to have decent aoe/st rather than having to specifically go one way or another. I still have to play around with my traits for m+ but I've had really bad RNG from the m+ azerite vendor and I don't really mythic raid to really have a chance at 445s from the raid
What would be the ideal trait set up for m+ tyran weeks? 2x EB, 2x TTK, and 2 SS?
tropic ocean
3ss for sure
U can use 420 or 430 azerite with good traits
I basically did all my 17s 18s with 2x 420 pieces
Cuz i only had shit 445s
gusty mirage
yeah I might start rolling 430s for better traits, because dumping 47k residuum to get an awful piece is becoming increasingly annoying lol
tropic ocean
Infact i only got good 445 helm last id before was still using 420
gusty mirage
my raid azerite pieces are okay, 2x dd, 2x ss, 1 np. But I'm relying on the engineering helm because my rng has been ass 😦
severe sedge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gusty mirage
yeah that's how I have it set up right now, my shoulder options are either SS or Tradewinds and my chest options are SS or Filthy transfusion so I'm kinda pigeonholed into 2x SS right now
I think I might just roll 430s for better traits, because I'm at the point where the increased agil/stam doesn't matter
mighty pelican
Probably total noob question here - I'm pugging M+ as sin, and often tanks chain pull and I can't get back into stealth for empowered garrotes... am I missing something obvious other than vanish on CD for trash?
gusty mirage
@mighty pelican What I do is stay back and finish off the last bit of the previous pull and most of the time I'm able to restealth
arctic walrus
Not really. The downside of sin in m+ is it's huge reliance on restealths. You can ask your tank to take 1 second to let you drop combat or go go outlaw, or live with the fact that you won't get many garrotes out
mighty pelican
Thanks guys
Yeah, I leveled another rogue as outlaw and idk, just not enjoying it as much as sin lol
gusty mirage
I hated outlaw for ever, and leveled sub because I'm a masochist apparently. But I think I'm hitting the point in M+ where I can't deny switching to outlaw to push higher than 15s/16s comfortably
vestal wren
subtlety is actually great when lvling
royal lantern
outlaw is litearly combat, just with more stuff then ''swords and melee attacks''
mighty pelican
nah, roll the bones is gross
shy dust
Even past 15 and 16s assassination is still a great choice. It’s not why you would be struggling to time keys
royal lantern
rtb is the only thing that makes outlaw somewhat interesting
vestal wren
i agree the majority of complexity is in rtb and how well you are able to maintain the rotation during high apm phases
gusty mirage
@shy dust it's mostly that my dps takes a huge hit when I can't restealth, it'd be nice to not have to worry about restealthing and going as fast as possible if that makes sense
fleet whale
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rigid mango
This is the season of restealths, though
There's barely any chainpulling and the sizes fit SS
royal lantern
its quite annyoing that the emmisarys need like 12years too finaly go away, so that you drop combat for stealth btw
cunning blaze
For zaqul progress, do you guys use bote major + lucid and conflict and strife minor?
arctic walrus
Technically yes but only worth of you strictly need the echo damage. Unbridled will be better otherwise
quasi pewter
pretty sure if you want pure echo damage crit pot is best
arctic walrus
Oh I suppose
wide hedge
i dont think the crit potion does more dmg in that short amount of time
just stay with fury
if the adds dont die because of 1 pot, you have other problems 😂
arctic walrus
I mean if you sim the ~30s it takes for the cast to go off, I think the crit potion will win. But I'm not sure if taking coral stacks into consideration will change that outcome
wide hedge
well to be fair - i never used my second pot on the add I used my high coral stacks. first echo: coral, second echo: pot
robust gull
kinda random question...ive heard people say sin is better than outlaw for progression, why is that?
distant lava
lose less dmg while you cannot hit the boss, higher burst, more consistent dmg
robust gull
but is it that big of a deal? if im 10/10 playing outlaw im probably 9/10 playing sin...so if we are on progression does it make sense for me to stick with outlaw since im slightly better, or go with sin because they are better for prog
gusty mirage
It being that big of a deal depends on your raid group and you
quasi pewter
just try both and see what ur doing better with?
brave vector
Would anyone be able to point out a few key things I’m doing wrong in my logs? I’m simming for about 40k and I can never seem to hit it. Ultimate goal is some purple parses
brave vector
Is that not right to do if I don’t get 4 cps off the bat? Or should I just rupture with whatever I get?
quasi pewter
no its correct
glass aspen
anyone have any experience freehold boosting as a 120 rogue? I have triple echoing blades and giga crit, not sure about the build afterwards. what trinkets are good?
brave vector
I noticed after raid last week that I was also going TB > Ven instead of the other way around
gusty mirage
Are you running shrouded suff in raid?
robust gull
you also got frozen, tsk tsk
brave vector
No I run master assassin, my gear is messed up right now but I run MA in raid with DDx3 blightborne, ttk, and NP
gusty mirage
I'm pretty sure the opener for no SS is still garrote -> mut (to 4+ cp) -> rupture. I could be wrong though
that's just based on what the ravenholdt guide says
arctic walrus
That is outdated info
royal lantern
eh, the mut opener is almost 0 difference if you mean that
brave vector
Ravenholdt certainly says mutilate > 4 cup rupture
gusty mirage
I always run at least 1 SS in raid though, so idk much about no-SS openers
rigid mango
Mut to 4+
Rup
Mut if in MA window
If not, garrote
gusty mirage
ah
robust gull
so with MA you always open mut?
rigid mango
Yes
robust gull
it just feels so bad :x
rough agate
Wait I saw earlier someone say if doing echos on zaqul prog go vision?
brave vector
You’re pretty much guaranteed a 4 cp rupture on your next gcd that way right?
gusty mirage
yeah
brave vector
I must have been unlucky and not gotten a crit that sivara fight
Unless there’s a way to check when cp was generated?
gusty mirage
also unless you turn it off in the sim, it assumes you're prepotting and using a battle pot during the fight if I'm not mistaken
robust gull
where do you see the mut mut rupture, are you looking at the 30 second log
brave vector
Is that not just both the mutilate mh and oH hit recorded separately?
robust gull
whoa, didnt know about the timeline, thats awesome....trying to learn to look at logs myself
brave vector
Alright so my opener is correct other than using tb before vendetta?
rigid mango
Aslong as you follow what I said with opening GCD's
And cd's are aligned CLF > Vend > tb > vanish
Yeah
gusty mirage
yeah you have rank 3 clf, use that over concentrated flame
rigid mango
You should have one mut and one garrote after the rupture
brave vector
I feel like I burst pretty hard 70-100k but it seems like every fight my dps drops too low to push it back up to sim range in between vendetta windows
I just got clf after Azshara that night 😛
robust gull
lol
rigid mango
Sim assumes you get 3 vend's
And two CLF's, also aligns CLF to one of the vend's too iirc
brave vector
Hm
brave vector
Haha that’s an easy fix, but nothing inherently wrong with my rotation based on the logs?
gusty mirage
I thought there was because my info was outdated and wrong, but follow what @rigid mango said and you'll be golden
rigid mango
If I was at my PC I'd give you a deep dive of your log
gusty mirage
from what I was told when I was struggling to hit near my numbers, I was messing up my opener and not stacking my CDs properly
rigid mango
But I'm not, so I can only give simple/shallow tips
robust gull
hey zine is there some sort of log analysis guide you would recommend or you just know how to do logs from doing them
just trying to learn for myself
robust gull
he used it at 141 seconds
rigid mango
I know what are constant, simple issues
gusty mirage
@robust gull this is what I used to get some understanding of navigating warcraft logs: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-warcraft-logs-to-improve-character-performance#log-sections but I def have a lot more to learn about the site
brave vector
I’m looking at the logs on my phone too and don’t see a single vanish use on any boss...
gusty mirage
are you channeling your font pre-pull and restealthing? @brave vector
brave vector
Yes, about 6 seconds out cause ninjapulls aren’t uncommon in my guild
gusty mirage
sounds about right lol, that's why I ditched my font the tanks I run with make it a pain in the ass to time it right
robust gull
honestly i hate using font lol
gusty mirage
yeah I'm running 455 dice/435 coral until rng blesses me with an inkpod
rigid mango
I hated font until I realised how to use it with coral properly
And now I like damage 
robust gull
i dont know how people get titanforge gear..im happy to get a warforged piece, cant wait to see what they change with it
scarlet sequoia
why the hell are u using dice over font
rigid mango
Be raz
scarlet sequoia
wtf
carmine atlas
what's the best race for this class?
rigid mango
Also yeah, I mean
gusty mirage
because I hate how the font affects my playstyle
scarlet sequoia
wym
royal lantern
if you need too ask for a race
scarlet sequoia
u just change it
brave vector
Oh actually I found it had my settings for the log weird
royal lantern
you are not even close too the lvl where your race makes even a minimum of a difference
brave vector
So my first vanish comes in at 9 seconds right after vendetta before envenom
gusty mirage
the sim difference is about 700dps assuming I'm simming it right (which is possible I'm doing it wrong) and I don't do mythic progression. My tanks enjoy pulling on 1 of the pulltimer or 2, or wait like 5 seconds after its over and it changes every time on every boss and it's the same 2 tanks. Instead of playing guess when the pull timer is accurate, I just benched the font unfortunately
royal lantern
tricks on tank>font at 7seconds>stealth>prepot at 2>pull
scarlet sequoia
😕
royal lantern
if the tanks sleep, its not your fault
carmine atlas
i just asked a question, all the other discord servers answered me nicely man :/. what's wrong with starting WoW with optimisatoin in mind
scarlet sequoia
@carmine atlas at the top level, human is best
tame tangle
@carmine atlas go undead because you can eat the alliance you kill
royal lantern
you will not do more dmg by playing a specific race
that stuff only ''matters'' for the absolute best peeps
gusty mirage
@carmine atlas race differences are so minimal honestly, it's about what you like the best and if you care about it the extra stuff you can bring (Arcane Torrent is clutch when you're pugging a M+)
scarlet sequoia
but as tryan said, it doesnt matter unless youre very tryhard
verbal knot
I want to be a nightborne but they just seem straight up bad.
gusty mirage
herodamage has a nice sim of which races are technically "best" for DPS and you'll notice the difference on there
brave vector
The only one that really matters as far as I know is night elf for dungeons using SS
robust gull
lol
carmine atlas
ok
robust gull
why
gusty mirage
I mean he's right if you want to push pve, most of the good raiding guilds are horde side
carmine atlas
Orc looks best on that site
verbal knot
Alliance is pretty much a shit show. You'll find more guilds with better progression horde side
A lot more options
scarlet sequoia
if u care a lot about even the smallest optimizations then for raiding maghar orc is the best and for m+ belf is best
belf is good for raiding too
gusty mirage
^
scarlet sequoia
np
robust gull
i think about switching to horde every now and then, just been alliance since day 1
gusty mirage
honestly I think it's hilarious that night elves have a racial that changes based on the time of day
verbal knot
I spent a few months as alliance this expansion and it was kind of miserable. Once I went horde I noticed an immediate difference. Pugs were easier to find and had better quality of players, there were more options for progression guilds which meant more people recruiting. On Tichondrius like every guild was recruiting at 3/8m a few weeks ago and it was so easy to find one. Alliance side it was hard to find a spot.
I guess this is wow general talk now
Sorry
robust gull
which alliance server were you on
naive bone
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
verbal knot
Proudmoore
royal lantern
do what all alliance mythic raiders do right now
hope that blizzard finaly enables crossfaction play at 9.0
or go horde at 9.0 if they dont
cus there is no point at staing alliance then if you actually want too do m+ or mythic raiding
and that comes from a guy that will probably just stop playing at all if he needs too play horde
bitter rock
Should I ever delay toxic blade for vendetta and should I delay it for enough energy to envenom 3 times?
scarlet sequoia
yes and yes
bitter rock
aight thanks
fossil girder
Hi guys, were is the best M+ guide for Sin?
severe sedge
3 eb is max stack mastery?
fossil girder
3 eb and 3 ss then? group is having more problems on Tyrannical
rigid mango
No, 3 eb isn't really the way to go this season, you don't pull big enough to warrant running 3
2 tops, 3 ss and a last ttk/bbi fits best
fossil girder
ok thx a lot!
verbal knot
Oh, hey is the Raz that's the 1 spot in mythic Sivara you? @scarlet sequoia
scarlet sequoia
its me
verbal knot
Awesome
arctic walrus
who? 
rigid mango
stuck knoll
Some nerd with bad gear
robust river
Benthic Gear. Got all 4 slots now finally! All at 415 currently, whcih should I upgrade first? Any priority of just do all to 420 equally?
rigid mango
Sim it
dire spoke
maybe boots
rigid mango
There's a small diff between them, if you use gear compare you'll see
dire spoke
stuck knoll
Boots are like the worst fairly certain
robust river
Droptomiser says boots.. But I don't see how that can be right haha
robust river
+73DPS taking boots from 415>420
I'd be able to do 2 but I just accidentally spent 75 pearls on the wrong boots haha
I know ot trust sim but its weird that it wants me to take Mastery gems.
Versatility gems...
I guess I just follow it? 😄
worn basin
Is there anywhere to find boss specific tips for eternal palace?
scarlet sequoia
ye you ask in here
worn basin
Fair enough
arctic walrus
He's on a helpful role today
worn basin
My issues usually are more cooldown management. I blew it on our first zaquul kill, was hoping to find something for queen besides just digging through logs
strange python
is toxic blade really that good?
rancid bobcat
what makes you think the other talents are better
strange python
idk
a 45 energy mutilate isn't that much better than a 50 mutilate
i've literally never used exanguinate so...
rancid bobcat
so then what's your question
strange python
idk... it just feels kinda weird
rancid bobcat
there really isn't much to say besides "it does the most damage"
same goes for most dps talent choices
strange python
i wish there was an inbetween
like it does great damage, and it feels good to use
strange python
what's wrong with mutilate? other than it costs a shitload of energy
rancid bobcat
"feels good to use" is pretty subjective
strange python
eh, true
scarlet sequoia
what do you mean 45 energy mutilate
strange python
maybe i just need to get used to it
because it refunds 5 energy?
venom rush, i mean
scarlet sequoia
i really hope youre not playing venom rush
strange python
swapped to toxic blade
strange python
i've got a couple more levels to think about things before i get forced into the meta
scarlet sequoia
oh youre not even 120
strange python
raz does venom rush lose that much dps?
scarlet sequoia
for me its a 2k decrease from toxic blade yes
strange python
dang
scarlet sequoia
it is in fact the worst talent on that tier
strange python
cheaper mutilate is out then
i'll just try to get used to venom rush, thank you.
has the assassination meta really changed over the past while?
echo cargo
Is there a sim that more accurately reflects stat weights + gear based on being in Zaqul Delirium?
Or some kind of line addition that would indicate like 150% hasted for >minute
drifting cloud
does it matter, if all 4 people are inside you should ahve no problems killing the echo
but no, dont think there is one
rancid bobcat
There's probably some haste=X thing you can put in
Whether it be a %, or stat value
But really, you're probably overthinking it
As long as no more than 1 person ints the echo dies
Like Ryler said
acoustic cipher
what do u guys think about font for assa in m+?
strange python
tried it, not a huge fan as it can't be cast in stealth and opener is important but it's nice on bosses
true, personally i'd rather use other trinkets and just finish off packs to get restealths as often as i can
echo cargo
I don't mean for the echo damage, just determining what helps your boss damage in that part of Zaq
Seems like most people just stack crit and shit, just would be nice to fine-tune knowing if Vers was better or whatever.
drifting cloud
we dont gear swap for zaqul just becaose of echoes, the gain is probably so minimal its just not worth thinking about
if 20 people are alive the boss has no dps checks assuming most of your raid is 65
after 2nd echoes you can probably finish the boss off with around 15 people, depending how low he was before he casted 2nd one ofc
tropic ocean
@acoustic cipher been using font recently if you get your tank to play with you using it its nice but takes some more proactive gameplay than other trinkets
light ferry
Is BotE r2 better than Iris r2 for M+? Just got lvl 120 with my alt and I don't know. Bloodmallet says that Iris hits like a truck for sin, but I know that BotE is BiS. Is there any tool in our kit that improves Iris damage, like for example Furious Gaze on DH? I've already done the BotE horrible farm on my alt Ele, and I don't know if I wanna repeat it yet xd
quartz dew
BotE doesn't get good until r3 really
cobalt pelican
arctic walrus
You run your ST build, nothing changes
Can run blood and c&s if you need add damage over clf
drifting cloud
is clf ever comparable even, you dont get 2 uses in last phase, the extra dmg it does in p3 shouldnt matter
isnt it just always bote
arctic walrus
I suppose with the faster pushes nowadays you lose out on a cast
If so then yeah blood all the way
true nexus
is there variance between how many gcds you can fit into MA
sometimes i feel like i get an extra mut
depends on haste?
tropic ocean
No
arctic walrus
Your gcd is locked at 1, it's always 3 casts
tropic ocean
it just looks like it sometimes
arctic walrus
You most likely are just critting on your 4th mut, and think it's apart of ma
strange python
@arctic walrus ty bro
iron slate
whats the best main essence for lady ashvane? im just maining condensed life essenced
rancid bobcat
does cloak work for azshara divide beam
drifting cloud
yes
rancid bobcat
does only range get targeted for spears in 3rd phase
arctic walrus
yes
ornate gazelle
Anyone have a good Weakaura for Font/Coral usage? Or if there isn't one that does it well, the most simple two?
arctic walrus
What exactly do you want this weak aura to do?
lost horizon
i made my coral WA light up during vendetta when it came off CD so i'd remember to press it
never felt so stupid in my life ngl
ornate gazelle
I guess just show Font CD, And if Coral is stacking or using stacks, and then the on-use trinket 20-second CD. Idk haha
How do you add the 20-second timer onto an icon weakaura when an on-use trinket is used?
drifting cloud
all the already made was have that
just get the one you like the most visually on wago
vestal wren
loyal
vestal wren
its better in the sim bc. of loyal with 4 loyal targets
severe sedge
check guild bro
if they use it
use it
think you could sim like 53k
with gems and stuff
rigid mango
Wdym sim 53k LOL
strange python
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite overview: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
young portal
@raw lotus those two sims are incomparable, you simmed 3/4 benthic in one and 0 benthic in the other
raw lotus
yeah im going back and forth between ep and not lol
young portal
Yeye, he gave me a reason to try it out haha
tropic ocean
I feel like hackerman looking at it
vestal wren
wow the progression bar is nice
tropic ocean
yesterday I saw it first time
but its out since sep 27 i believe
I cant sim over 50k
what is happening
Q_Q
raw lotus
@young portal thanks
tropic ocean
@sonic ferry big comedian
sonic ferry
ty
tropic ocean
hows lfr going
sonic ferry
too far
royal lantern
cus you have sub as a role
cold spoke
unlucky
torpid cradle
what is the best essences comp for assa rogue in m+?
rigid mango
Bote major, lucid + strife minor
rigid mango
PP could seemingly work, but it's got inconsistancies
It's also getting buffs next patch, so might be even better then
modest tendon
Crucible isn’t terrible for a 3rd minor
dusky plinth
Quick Question, which Option do I choose for raidbots when I want to sim my damage against Orgozoa?
Do I still sim Patchwerk?
young portal
Patchwerk 4 targets
dusky plinth
Thanks 
oblique pewter
Hello
Can anyone here tell me if I actually need 2 daggers to respec Assass
Or is it fine with 1 ?
dark crag
You need 2
oblique pewter
for the energy
royal lantern
even for sub its pretty shity too not go 2 daggers tbh
unless you have a huge ilvl difference
woeful jungle
does subterfuge proc shrouded suffocation garrotes for the whole 3 sec buff or only the first garrote from stealth?
lament dove
for the 3 sec, so you can do 3 garrotes to 3 targets, or if it's single target/boss, you should do 2 garrotes in the 3 sec to make the empowered garrote longer
shy axle
gar- rup - gar f.e.
scarlet sequoia
condensed life force major, memory of lucid dreams and essence of the focusing iris minor
scarlet sequoia
crucible of flame major, lucid dreams and conflict minors
scarlet sequoia
np
light ferry
Is there any amount of targets where we don't use Evenom? I mean, if I have for example 5 targets and of all them have Rupture, should I just spam Fan of Knives or dump combo points into Evenom?
tardy vortex
Basically, yes
light ferry
How many targets?
dark crag
Yes
tardy vortex
Doesn't matter, since like you said, if all targets have rupture you have nothing else to spend your CP on (unless you're running crimson tempest, but iirc it's still better to use envenom (once the crimson tempest dot is applied) because the initial CT damage is low)
dark crag
Spam fok for aoe, spam env for prio dmg
light ferry
I thought that there would be some point where you prefer to use a GCD for FoK over Evenom, even if you have 5 combo points. But well, Poison Bomb exists so I am not sure.
rigid mango
Spamming fok is only a gain at iirc
6t 3 eb, 8t 2eb, 10t 1 eb
Assuming 40% crit
And 4-5% vers
So below your appropriate number, you just spend CP as per usual
Keep 4 bleeds up, env for damage
light ferry
Ok, so I was doing wrong. If I could keep Rupture on more than 4 targets, should I do it?
rigid mango
You rupture prio targets
And if you've done that, keep 4 bleeds total up
Empowered garrotes or ruptures
tardy vortex
If the targets are about to die, use envenom, if they're at full hp or just have a lot of hp left in general use rupture. No point in applying dots for 3-4 seconds imo
rigid mango
If they're dying very soon, and you're not GCD locked
You rupture for energy refund
Rupture snipe them
light ferry
Is better Rupture sniping than using Evenom?
rigid mango
If you need the energy, yeah
tardy vortex
Wouldn't envemoming a different target be better than spending combo points just to get back the enrrgy you used to geemrate them?
rigid mango
If you need instant energy back, say the packs is one that dies fast
It's better to rely off of energy refund from deaths
Also, it's a matter of if you'll be able to use that energy
Are they dying too soon? Does the energy actually matter?
lament dove
imho spamming FoK is only good for padding, of course you can spam it some, but if there are mobs with more hp than others you can spend CPs on envenoming those, because the pack is living as long as the last of the pack is living (some exceptions like raging affix)
rigid mango
Or do you desperatly need prio damage?
Unless you have a clear prio target, there's no reason to forfeit dps
If you're just killing a relativly even pack you're better off mongo foking
Granted you're within the aforementioned parameters
dark crag
Killing packs optimal for the dungeon, affixes, tanks > doing a set rotation and not adapting to different situations
light ferry
Okey, tyvm for the explanation. I read in the guide that it was an easy spec, but after playing Havoc and Ele, this seems quite more complex.
rigid mango
For m+ it's one of the more complex
light ferry
But well, that's more interesting.
rigid mango
You have a lot more scenarios where you do diff things
To maximise value and efficiency
minor thicket
If I want to play sin in mythic + with Subterfuge. Ideally what traits do I want?
rigid mango
3 ss 1 eb + another eb, ttk or bbi
devout thicket
Right now I have 0 versatility on my gear. 
rigid mango
You don't need any
devout thicket
I know, it just feels weird, felt like sharing my weirdness
oblique pewter
feels weird maaaan
minor thicket
Gutripper, elemental whirl or EarthLink for M+
rigid mango
Probs ele whirl
heavy trail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wyyJcF1cR1SKki9qgBzxN8
Wtf why differes the one combination by 400 dps???
heavy trail
ye, but still would expect " a few dps" difference, maybe 30 within the errormargin, but 400? seems crazy
cloud sandal
i mean stat weights differ quite much sometimes
tardy vortex
It's a 0.7% difference so I'd call it "a few DPS"
cloud sandal
its quite significant for only 2 enchant swaps
distant lava
it's enchants and gems
hidden bay
one more week and i got ya @scarlet sequoia https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xunp5XycMoXSm1Yyx2U846 
heavy trail
Thats what i mean, its quite too significant for swapping around
-120 crit
- 40 vers
+60 haste
+100 mastery
distant lava
what is it with you people and sockets smh
do you have a special code you enter before raiding or something
hidden bay
bribing the council with gold
scarlet sequoia
if ure a loser maybe
hidden bay
OK
scarlet sequoia
😏
shell lodge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
heavy trail
Like i expected... simmed everything again, no 400 dps gain by changing these stats...
but still the question why was there so much difference :-D
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bQAyZKFj9bo3GHuonytVy2
oblique moon
I’ve been having trouble trying to find some top assass players who regularly stream EP...anyone know of any?
shut garnet
seli does reclears too every week
rigid mango
Yeah, incarnated on twitch is good as both m+ and raid
shut garnet
out of the 3 specs, assuming perfect play and say perfect gear, is there any reason to play assa on azshara compared to the other 2
like specific reason why assa is top on that fight
or do most ppl play it because it's "meta"
distant lava
lose less dmg with downtime so less punished by mechanics
you can burst mistress 1 and 3 really hard with vendetta and blood and vanish
and compared to outlaw dmg is much more consistent
distant lava
sub has a 3 min cooldown so no good for mistresses
and get fucked by dowtime even harder than outlaw does
rigid mango
sub has a 3 min cooldown so no good for mistresses
shut garnet
rigid mango
Thanks for coming to my TED talk
rigid mango
scarlet sequoia
pls refrain from trolling in the spec channels, its not cool.
bleak spoke
@distant lava wrong, you probably get more overall on the mistresses as sub
distant lava
how
bleak spoke
raz i swear to gawd
distant lava
smh raz
bleak spoke
smh my head
bleak spoke
Zine
rancid bobcat
Wtf new green name
bleak spoke
^
rancid bobcat
@giggleblush give me green name
rigid mango
You know it.
quasi pewter
shy dust
Zine gonna ban any references to hidden blades
distant lava
HB gon get filtered
royal lantern
ban the words blades and hidden
nimble tinsel
Just gonna start calling it hidey stabbers
civic palm
<Sneaky Stabbers>
torn pier
should i go assassin rogue or outlaw rogue?
distant lava
for ?
torn pier
m+ and maybe some pvp
distant lava
pvp
sin always
outlaw is just not good for that
m+ it depends, outlaw has a bit more utility and is easier to gear
rigid mango
Sin is behind outlaw in m+
distant lava
but you can do fine as sin
rigid mango
Sin ahead of outlaw in raids
The diff is marginal for either, minmax raids you go sin and play outlaw for some fights, minmax m+ you always play outlaw
torn pier
oh okej, thanks
modest stream
Sub vs sin for Arena pvp?