@opal meadow I just rupture them, then switch back to boss
#assassination
young portal
opal meadow
yeah thats what i do
having a discussion in guild discord about why im doing that lol, trying to see if i'm the only one
young portal
I mean they're either immuned by certain classes or die within seconds anyway. I'd rather the extra regen personally
opal meadow
that's my thought process as well
stuck knoll
If youβre assa on ashvane Iβd just ignore them tbh
There are much better classes for it and itβs really not your job
worldly iron
I always just rupture at least one of them and if I see that they're not going down, I switch to help out. I rarely need to do that, but sometimes you just need to adapt to what kind of pull it is you're having
night vale
I just ruptured them to snipe the energy refill
worldly iron
I don't want people dying to upsurge because of the lack of bubble damage
opal meadow
Ronkles i'd ignore them if i could π
worldly iron
I'd say it's a pretty core problem with the group if you need to focus the bubbles as assassination
rigid mango
I entirely ignored them unless we were at specific points where my rupture would/could matter
stuck knoll
Yeah it's an issue if you're the one who is forced to swap
If it's really an issue go outlaw
But sin is not the spec to deal with bubbles
chilly wyvern
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
blissful storm
bronze kelp
playing bfa makes me happy on loot system compared to classic ^^
but the RNG on azerite is still frustrating sometimes
vestal wren
image if blizz thinks the loot system of classic is superior
robust river
I hate the RNG upgrade of BFA.... It feels very diablo. "I Have all best in slot!" Great. Now go run that content 400 more times to get one with a slot.
This is #wow-general chat though :S
peak smelt
If we are just throwing random numbers out I could run classic raid/dungeon 1000 times and never get my bis gear.
chilly dagger
hey, how much does our stats change with 80% haste buff in delirium realm on zaqul?
idk if i need to switch some rings for more crit/versa
vagrant tapir
@bronze kelp π¦
@vestal wren Whats going on with FoK?
@chilly dagger A lot. Haste will be worth nothing, You'll have to run your own stats, but you wouldnt be far off just taking your weights, removing haste and using them
chilly dagger
thats what i thought, thanks
vestal wren
@vagrant tapir its just a tooltip bug
daring imp
Anyone know exactly why using visions of perfection is good on mythic zac?
scarlet sequoia
yeah
vestal wren
ppl use vision to lower the vendetta cooldown to have it ready for delirium
i dont think its good
vestal wren
there are other classes that are better send down
the vision is just to focus your burst on one specific part
rigid mango
I suppose every guild has 4 demo locks ready to blast it
Sin's great at being downstairs thanks to extended survival, and great at bursting the echos
rigid mango
Sin can survive, is barely out dps'd by any class that isn't demo lock and like, fire mage on those adds
and even then you just cloak, run leeching poison, have vial and can use delirium so much
stuck knoll
Sin has easily some of the best burst dps in the game and by far the best melee burst
tropic ocean
no point in going down if you don't need the burst for add anyway
and we didn't so I didnt go down βͺ
rigid mango
but if you do need it, sin's great at it.
oblique jackal
what essence is everyone using for mythic +/
rigid mango
bote major, lucid + conflict minor
tropic ocean
i use bote major, lucid and iris (minor)
rigid mango
young portal
So you recommend ditching a lot of haste for other stats if being sent down to delirium, obviously the realm makes haste a bit useless?
rigid mango
Yeah, haste isn't as good on zaq for sure
Are you going down either 1st or 2nd just damage delirium too?
signal salmon
Is it OK to have 2100 haste in raid?
tropic ocean
yes
solid nova
8 minutes?
tropic ocean
I got 1800smth and haste is by far highest stat weight so seems fine
signal salmon
Sim show haste top stat
tropic ocean
@solid nova most fights are 7-8min π
signal salmon
@solid nova still Ashvane prog
rigid mango
scarlet sequoia
thats so much
solid nova
@tropic ocean Thanks, i wouldnt have known π
tropic ocean
always there for you π
solid nova
Unlucky.
signal salmon
OK ty
young portal
@rigid mango second
rigid mango
Then yeh, haste even worse
tropic ocean
@scarlet sequoia does it say different for you?
tropic ocean
i got haste ring set, iris minor 26% haste and haste is still far top stat from rest π
young portal
Pretty much every time I'm going down, apart from the very first. Fair enough, cheers. I dont suppose theres anyway to sim what to stack instead is there haha
scarlet sequoia
whats your crit at @tropic ocean
scarlet sequoia
u must have like 0 mastery
tropic ocean
34% mastery 31% crit 26% haste
tropic ocean
and haste is not your best stat?
scarlet sequoia
no vers is
tropic ocean
but you have 3 op right
scarlet sequoia
ye
rigid mango
Vers and crit are the best
π€·
For me now atleast
I wouldn't be shocked if r3 conflict sims higher tbh.
tropic ocean
I think sim overvalues op some though, depending on fight
rigid mango
Ofc.
tropic ocean
in queen azshara I have 26~30% uptime only
young portal
Do you still keep loyal mastery buff if you're in different realms on Zaq btw?
stuck knoll
Well thatβs something you should account for same as Jaina
Thatβs not it overvaluing op
young portal
Thank youπ
pastel rampart
Hello, Can you look through my log and say what am I doing wrong https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TmFZdNbh8LCwWQ6P#fight=22&type=damage-done&source=25 Or that 60% parses are just because of cd's not at start?
robust river
Are any of the Azerite pieces from Benthic viable for Assassination or just the Boot/Bracer/Glove/Belt?
stuck knoll
@robust river I wouldnβt waste the pearls upgrading az cuz it caps at 435
450 stuff will be better in most cases
pastel rampart
We two phased it
Like There are guys that doing 53k dps at the same killing time, They are giving their cd's at start, but i don't think that it will be 7k dps difference
nocturne gate
better azerite better env&ep uptime better trinkets ( inkpod)better gear in generalbetter player @pastel rampart
tropic ocean
press buttons in correct order
Have better boss uptime
Minimize movement
In a 5 min fight using cd on start if your raid has enough dps will give you a better value of 2nd guardian
nocturne gate
use more tb often
pastel rampart
i've lost only 2
tropic ocean
βOnlyβ
pastel rampart
in a 5 min fight
tropic ocean
you shouldnt lose any
tropic ocean
You use tb on cd
pastel rampart
On ashvane- I can't
tropic ocean
thats your issue then
pastel rampart
because you need to burst in the exact time
pastel rampart
Are you suggest me to use tb without vendetta?
tropic ocean
no but you dont hold tb so long to lose 2 casts
pastel rampart
I am losing at least 6 sec at start due to applying dots
tropic ocean
?
You mutilate rup mut garr
Then depending if you hold cd or not
U either use guardian vendetta tb
Or just tb after if u hold
red plaza
ya you could usually get 2 tb's in before 1st shield...at least with my guild's dps
nocturne gate
if u have inkpod use it with coral there its to busted^^
pastel rampart
No, It's not
woeful jungle
gearing up my alt rogue, is the ideal raid set very different from what one would use on a tyranical week?
red plaza
Inkpod isn't bad 2 phase, it just feels bad when it doesn't crit though
red plaza
go look at actual logs and reports
red plaza
top logs inkpod and coral
tropic ocean
and pls dont argue with some top logs where inkpod crit to use it as reference
red plaza
i don't have a problem with the statement font/coral is more consistent..but saying pod/coral is bad is wrong
pastel rampart
If u have 50% crit*
tropic ocean
@nocturne gate i mean if u stack coral until 30% then sure use inkpod
but you gimp your damage already
so it won't matter
little crow
odd question, but those gems look legit to you guys? havent really seen a rogue geming mastery ever 
tropic ocean
yes
you have 3 op iris minor and quick navi
so you already have giga haste natively
and most of your gear is crit/haste so you have little mastery
rigid mango
You lack benthic so stat weights are far more similar to last tier's stats
not this tiers
Also, use your highest ilvl in your mainhand jesus
rigid mango
Using benthic will propel anything but mastery
hallow coyote
I fucking hate how good Benthic shit is. Farming Pearls is the wooooorst
little crow
thats why i didnt really bother it on my alt for so long
but now main has everything, so might aswell
red plaza
It's better than waiting for a tittyforged socket or having one chance a week for it
hallow coyote
I enjoy that content though
rigid mango
solar crest
Evening gentlemen
Does Nothing Personal azerite trait work with a proc from vision of perfection ?
distant lava
yes
distant lava
yes
shut garnet
whats the difference in damage on raid bosses between bote and clf roughly
Ive seen some ppl use bote even on full st encounters
so is the dps diff low enough so it becomes a preference?
wet ruin
I think they are using it when the kill time is low
pliant wing
Was wondering, on tyrannical week, iris or CLF ?
arctic walrus
I would still take iris over clf
Tyrannical doesn't mean there's 0 trash, it's still a large portion of the dungeon
Therefore I believe it would have more value
lost horizon
Same, unless your group desparately needs ST
arctic walrus
Your St doesn't suffer tremendously from going iris
But your aoe will suffer if you go with clf
lost horizon
Yeah, but if you're hitting a KR it could be worth
pliant wing
ok ok, so if am i guessing it right, blood 3 is bis for tyra and fort ?
lost horizon
But more dependent on if your group can make the changes instead
BotE claps for sin
arctic walrus
Yes blood is always the best option
arctic walrus
It's just a good essence all around that is nice to have on standby
Even for raids
E.g. zaqul and azshara
pliant wing
ye im playing CLF for pure ST and iris on others, i dnt really care bout raids , didnt knew blood was this good on mm+
lost horizon
It's only really good at rank3 though
pliant wing
but makes sense with EB
short pivot
Is protocol rank 1 good as a 3d minor?
pliant wing
thanks guys π
short pivot
Got clf and flame on rank 3
lost horizon
No lucid?
short pivot
Its only on rank 2 as well π’
lost horizon
Conflict drops between packs pretty often, especially when you're trying to restealth
short pivot
So flame?
Or protocol since rank 2 in that only adds a heal and dmg looks pretty decent
pliant wing
i trusted herodamage way too much π
lost horizon
I'd sim it out if I were you
short pivot
For m+?
rigid mango
Conflict's probably the best option
lost horizon
Just a bit overvalued if you're strictly simming a continuous encounter
short pivot
Idk gave up on simming for m+ a while back tbh
Feelycrafting it more π and asking here
pliant wing
the mm+ sim is good ?
rigid mango
No
lost horizon
Slice isn't good for sin unfortunately
pliant wing
wich affix did it takes ?
short pivot
And ty zine
pliant wing
alright
rigid mango
You'll most likely confuse yourself more than it'll help
pliant wing
alright i'll just check tyra logs π
rigid mango
You never change anything really.
Sim the different foods
and see for yourself
π€·
signal salmon
rigid mango
What's this supposed to tell me?
signal salmon
Nvm
signal salmon
Okty
pliant wing
Tyra log to see wich essence rogue playing
rigid mango
Every rogue should run iris or blood
You literally never change
If you have blood r3, you run it every time
if you don't, you run iris
pliant wing
Ok π
final dust
@rigid mango Iβm assuming whatever sims says is better for you should go with?
As far as essences goes
final dust
So Clf major with iris and lucid sims better than with Bote r3
rigid mango
For what
final dust
ST
final dust
What Iβm saying tho is u said run bote r3 no matter what instead of iris
rigid mango
For m+, yeah.
final dust
I missed the m+ I see
rigid mango
final dust
Xd
rigid mango
There's a lot more than simming that goes into m+ choices
ST is really standard and sims dictate your choices, outside of fight specifics
vestal wren
simc is a tool thats rly helpfull for m+
what i expect from good m+ players is to use it as a suplement to optimize their output,
what is reality is that the majority is using 40 sec sims that dont rly do that
what opens a question if there is interesst for a ressource that helps with the mentioned
hidden bay
https://gyazo.com/f01bc8b015178667c3fec221bdef5781 any huge rogue players in the chat?
vestal wren
gz, i guess
hidden bay
just want to flex 
rigid mango
There is no way to accuratly sim m+ to the point where you can use it as an end all be all
vestal wren
i think thats quite the oposite of what i was saying
rigid mango
So what are you saying
vestal wren
to create/optimize sims for more specific purposes to evaluate those
rigid mango
So go at it
Make sims for every single pull in every dungeon
That also changes each week
changes with tanks, changes with poor play
changes with comp
Changes with group pref
vestal wren
i dont get your point tbh
rigid mango
I mean, I don't get how you think that's realistic
That alone is like, a good amount of variables
You then have to stick that into level of key and so much more
to get an actual representation of what you're doing
If you want to do that, or anyone for that matter, please do
vestal wren
yes bottom line, just bc. simc is useless for you it cant be usefull at all?
rigid mango
"There's a lot more than simming that goes into m+ choices"
Because simming cannot work for everything
If it did, it'd be fucking great
But it doesn't
fleet whale
This is why i miss Legion assassin M+, or just legion M+ in general
vestal wren
i didnt say it should
rigid mango
You can get "general" views over wide spectrums of content
That aren't accurate
And are affected by so much more than you can control
vestal wren
i mean same applies to raid
why do we even use sims then?
you kinda think to black and white about it
rigid mango
Because raids have way less variables
No, you think entirely about sims
Everyone knows that fights impact sims too
Last 2 are a prime example of tha
Or a lot in general
But it's so easily distinguishable, m+ is like you have an entirely different fight each time
Because you nearly do.
vestal wren
thats the point...
rigid mango
That simming m+ is inaccurate? Great.
vestal wren
why do you want to map the "entirety" noone will ever optimize their gear every week every run and iterate on that
fleet whale
Well, Double dose according to hero damage is more valuable than TTK in Dungeonslice, though pretty much everyone knows that DD should never be used
rigid mango
Exactly
No one will
So why are we trying to use it as a tool to optimise when it's obviously not accurate enough?
vestal wren
yes, but thats not the idea, the idea is to make a fight style that helps optimize what you gear for in m+
rigid mango
But that fight style isn't accurate though.
vestal wren
so instead of wired 40 sec sims or dungeon slice you have alternative metrics to look at
rigid mango
Yeah, but there isn't one that's good enough
vestal wren
or rather more then one
rigid mango
Yours is outdated from a time of metashifting pulls in comparison to now
Dslice obviously is flawed
I don't see someone trying to make one that's accurate enough to be used by the masses either
fleet whale
The one thing i did notice though was going from 2 SS to 3 SS was a significant increase to my overall dps in a M+
rigid mango
So until we have that, there's no reason to try to sim a general standpoint
because it's flawed, one way or another
If you want simple guidepoints for what to pick, maybe a simple thing could work
vestal wren
dd is higher in sim bc. there is quite a long bossfight, and adds are dying at certain times where you fall back to it, so mut gets used quite a bit
rare zephyr
hey i have a M Zaqul related question, when you are in the delirium and you wanna take the tenticle slam to get out how does cloak work this that mechanic? i know you can cloak, still take the hit and get out but apparently sometimes you take the stun from coming out and sometimes you dont? is that just inconsistant or am i doing something wrong?
upper canyon
i just make my tank pull one mob at a time so i can use my single target sim for dungeons
vestal wren
i mean, if you want to focus on prio damage dd is the best trait π
rigid mango
Let's not do this again.
vestal wren
na, wont make a ttk discussion out of that
upper canyon
if you dont have an answer in like 7 hours tharantos I'll let you know when I get to try it out for myself
:^ )
rare zephyr
alright
vestal wren
just point out that mut can be used in m+ to get more damage to the prio target
ofc, at the cost of aoe
rare zephyr
its just weird cause i got stunned and the other rogue in my raid didnt
fleet whale
TBH if (when) mecha gets turned into two M+ dungeons, a heavier ST build might be useful in the second half of that dungeon, though the last pack is gonna be rough
bitter rock
where does most of the extra damage come from other than ilvl? I'm currently 428 on my rogue simming at around 25k without any extra buffs, where as my 433 equip 440 in bag spriest is at like 34k without buffs?
upper canyon
race change to human and trinket it
lost horizon
You can also use swords and maces to get better auto attacks if your daggers are too low ilvl
rare zephyr
@bitter rock Trinkets and Benthic gear
rigid mango
It takes an obscene amount of targets to make fok deal more prio damage than mut
vestal wren
probably on void emesaries
rigid mango
Nah, probably not
vestal wren
but even then you usually tent to have a group of mobs you probably want to cleave
rigid mango
You'll be killing in two blasts anyways
Why kill 6 sec before 3rd instead of 2
That's inefficient
When you account for the overall dps loss by pressing mut instead of fok
lost horizon
Voids aren't tuned high enough to really require speccing for
As long as your group has CDs
rigid mango
There's very few scenarios
lost horizon
Since like 90% can be LoSed
vestal wren
agree there
rigid mango
There's still a bunch of minmax usage about bleeds and stuff that I'd be interested to sim
General rotation stuff, not just choices gear wise
vestal wren
what f.ex.?
vestal wren
what?
rare zephyr
around 7 seconds
rigid mango
You use ruptures for "prio" damage, on the higher hp targets rn
Regardless of energy regen
Say peacekeepers in ML
I'm wondering how long that rupture has to tick on that target for it to be worth using it for "prio" damage
over just envenoming
Entirely disregarding energy regen
vestal wren
not having high enough energy income is worse then using rupture for 1 finisher
rupture is usually worth to apply to a target that survivies 6 or more secounds
rigid mango
That's not the question
I'm talking pure damage
Ignore energy part of rupture
only damage
Think of it from a standpoint where you already have inf energy reg
vestal wren
energy creates damage so kinda hard to ignore it
vagrant tapir
As sin in M+, paired with a 430 coral, would you take 450 inkpod or 430 font
vagrant tapir
Can inkpod proc off fok?
vestal wren
so you mean 4 bleeds instead of 5 for prio?
rigid mango
I'm talking PURE damage
vestal wren
on what fight lengh and with how many targets?
rigid mango
of the two abilties
I want to know the breakpoint of when it's worth to envenom over rupture
in a realistic scenario
vestal wren
when you have 5 bleeds up
rigid mango
+- how many seconds does the ruptured target have to survive to make rupture the better "prio" damage abilitt
To cast on that GCD
vestal wren
but to get back to your realistic scenario, what fight lengh and target cound you talk about?
vagrant tapir
I think the question is how many seconds of rupture, is more damage than envenom
rigid mango
how many seconds does rupture how to tick
vestal wren
yes, but i cant sim a scenario you dont tell me the setup for
rigid mango
to out dps envenom
vestal wren
@vagrant tapir that should be quite easy to do with simple math but that would ignore energy ticks
vagrant tapir
Yeah
I think thats what hes asking
given enough energy that you aren't gaining any more usable energy from the rupture
vagrant tapir
How long would the rupture need to be active for, to use it over envenom
I think the answer is 12 seconds
vestal wren
then do <env damage>/<rupture tick damage>
rigid mango
bingo
vestal wren
again, i dont get the idea behind it
vestal wren
its not worth to use "x over y" if you ignore f.ex. energy ticks
lost horizon
Value from envenom buff though is dependent on target count and if you're FoKing and shit
rigid mango
Is it more worth, dps wise, to envenom or rupture that target
Ignoring potential energy gain from rupture
since you're already capping
rare zephyr
depends on azerite traits
vagrant tapir
I mean, I guess if you're trying to determine the minimum, even if other targets died before that point was hit, it would only increase the value of that rupture because then you would start benefiting from the energy
rigid mango
and possibly mastery/crit
rare zephyr
example i play 2 twist the knife traits, for me its 100% more worth to envenom
rigid mango
Is it though?
rare zephyr
yea
rare zephyr
im very sure
cause i can envenom crit for 100k
or above
with blood of the enemy + toxic blade i sometimes crit 200k+
rigid mango
yes
rare zephyr
surely rupture doesnt do that much
rigid mango
You're also accounting for tb and blood, and vend usage
ofc
It's a nobrainer in there
lost horizon
Cause if you've got that shit up on your target it better have a rupture already anyways
rigid mango
Exactly
celest swan
can u manipulate where the echoes spawn at zaqul mythic?
rigid mango
lost horizon
Tbh of you're looking for pure damage on a specific target on a pack where you already have bleed out
vestal wren
keep in mind that rupture ticks are lower during kr
rigid mango
kr?
lost horizon
Why doesn't that specific target have a rupture already?
vestal wren
br*
rigid mango
br?
rigid mango
It should, but ultimatly you might have more of those targets
Say you have a prio target
so that get ruptures and shit
autumn trench
if I'm clicking second on console during aszhara ph4, can i pre cloak and definitely avoid the dot?
rigid mango
But the big target still needs to die
Sooner or later
So, ignoring the obvious gains you'd get from rupture energy
Since in this scenario you have enough
lost horizon
Yeah I guess if there's no clear prio target
rigid mango
Is it worth to rupture or env that target
lost horizon
It's valid
rigid mango
It's less about "prio"
and more about smoothening out the pack
You have one thing with a crap ton more HP
And letting that just sit there are say 50% when everything else is dead
is very inefficient time wise
lost horizon
Nah it's invalid in that case, cause if the one thing has a shitload more HP it basically becomes your prio target
Unless there's some caster or some shit
rigid mango
Yeah, it's in the scenario of
lost horizon
In which case it just becomes your prio after caster dies
rigid mango
"needs to die, but not first"
lost horizon
It's a better question for a situation with no prio target
lost horizon
Like pulling 3 peacekeepers
rigid mango
etc
lost horizon
Triple garrote rupture one
Env or rupture after you're set for energy
Maybe a bad example solely due to garrote falling off making rupture better later but
vestal wren
π€ subtlety would be great on those bc. it can focus prio damage better
rigid mango
What's the breakpoint in seconds, for that
lost horizon
If you have vanish and shit up for reapplying garrotes it's valid
lost horizon
Yeah would have to be a bigger pack though
rigid mango
It's from a purely dps perspective
Yeah but now you're adding unnecessary variables
It's a very simple scenario and all it needs to be thought of as, is that
There's nothing complex with it
lost horizon
I mean technically the envenom buff scales with target count
Where rupture wouldn't
Idk how relevant it actually is
rigid mango
Exactly
lost horizon
But the only difficult part of the question is the envenom buff
lost horizon
Make the question more direct then
rigid mango
Granted you have 1 TTK which I think most people do
vestal wren
so, how long do those adds survive and how long does the "big add" survive?
rigid mango
It's about how long it has to survive
That's the entire question fuu
What's the breakpoint in time
vestal wren
so i can throw it in simc and do 4/5 target cap for bleeds? or limit rupture to main target?
rigid mango
where envenom becomes more worth while for damage, instead of rupture
lost horizon
Nah that's the wrong question to sim
Get the value of envenom buff
Then the raw envenom dmg vs rupture dmg is super easy to compare
rigid mango
I mean, if you look for that
lost horizon
To get your target duration answer
rigid mango
You'll get what I'm saying
and if you look for what I'm saying
You'll get what you're saying
lost horizon
Yes, but harder to sim for imo
vestal wren
question is, can you create adds with a certain hp pool in simc raid events then
and the answer is, yes you can
interessting
so, lets experiment.
vestal wren
it means the dps of your weapon
vestal wren
if you increase them by 1 point it gives you the increase of value
its not itemlvl its dps
strange python
how can i increase the dps of my weapons ?
strange python
alright ty
royal lantern
weapons are one of the few slots where you go ilvl over everything else
well, atleast for mainhand, offhand weapon is a statstick
vestal wren
okay, the add hp seems to not work without a time definition :/
rigid mango
vestal wren
so.. not sure how to sim without changing the add duration a lot
arctic tinsel
Do yβall use focus macros for m+ interrupts? Is there another, more efficient option? I have been clicking frames, which I am very good at. I also use a modifier that hides all cast bars except casts I can interrupt when held to reduce clutter in that instant when Iβm kicking.
But there are those packs like in ML where I want to blind the Assassin and kick another target within 1 second of one another and sometimes a tick of the flechettes gets off etc
Clicking frames feels inefficient though
lost horizon
I use a focus macro, but it's set up so if I have no focus it's just a regular kick
So for packs where it's useful I'll set something as my focus
Otherwise I'll just target whatever I need to interrupt
strange python
I just tab to what I need to kick, but my group always has defined kick targets since we know what we need to be interrupting.
I guess in a pug you might not be able to do so
upper canyon
if you always say your kick is on CD you'll never have to kick anything and can free up that keybind for pick lock or something more important
lost horizon
Focus macro works there
arctic tinsel
Iβm actually a resto dru/ disc main, but Iβm dropping disc for rogue π
strange python
I run with 2 melee 1 ranged group, haven't ever encountered a scenario where I have to try and CC and then kick in a 1sec timeframe, but I'd guess you could focus macro it if you needed to.
since we have 3 reliable interrupts
arctic tinsel
Mostly emergencies. Itβs a near wipe that a blind is going to save if I can kick the other insta kind of thing
lost horizon
Just get it set up so you kick normally if there's no focus set
strange python
yeah alt or shift mod your kick key with focus I suppose
lost horizon
If it's an emergency you'll have to click cause you won't be ready for it anyways
arctic tinsel
β€ brave little toaster π BTW
lost horizon
Aha so good right?
Focus works really well for when there are multiple things to worry about, or casters that aren't priority targets
strange python
if I ever had to click a mob's unitframe my group would wipe. I can tab target faster
lost horizon
So if you pull a swarmer with a pack of lashers in underrot
strange python
I lose my mouse cursor alllll the time
arctic tinsel
Those enormous pull weeks too
lost horizon
You can still be dpsing the swarmer but keep your assigned lasher as focus
arctic tinsel
Me and my sister watched it over and over growing up. Still makes me cry
lost horizon
You can also use it for a way to easily pick something out from a pack
strange python
you can also use between the eyes as an emergency ranged 'interrupt' on most adds if you're running M+ as outlaw.
lost horizon
Like set a maggot to focus, DPS swarmer, click your focus frame to gouge maggot
arctic tinsel
Yeah I am. Maggot can be gouged?!?
Iβm still new to rogue. Around 1700 on my resto rn
lost horizon
Yes, gouge is a big part of why outlaw is so insane for keys
strange python
You have kick, BTTE, and gouge for add control, is nice
arctic tinsel
Gotcha. I wanna play Assas in keys but tbh the tab bleeds over and over would drive me nuts. I do enough of that as a resto dru
lost horizon
Mouseover macro
arctic tinsel
Blind too π
lost horizon
I just use mouseovers for bleeds tbh
arctic tinsel
Oh gotcha
Yeah still drives me crazy.
Resto is like babybleed everything-> sunfire -> moonfire everything -> 5 point bleed-> babybleed everything...
I like an engaging rotation, but it has to feel fun too
lost horizon
Uh
For some reason my response edited my last message instead LOL
But yeah that's true, bottom on playrate
But output isn't bottoming out compared to other specs
wary sun
Raidleader says i cant cloaksoak stomp on orgo mythic, anyone confirm?
Also, can i cheatdeath soak it?
vestal wren
i mean i wont say you are wrong but the itemlvl range within subtlety parses is quite low, the majority is quite well equiped
so unlike assassination where you get a lot of even lower itemlvls you have a quite low amount of them, making the average/median look higher
vestal wren
only rly bad spec i can think of is arcane, and arcane suffers from issues in design
lost horizon
Demo and WW are kinda rough in raid last I checked
vestal wren
but i think we go a bit to much #wow-general
lost horizon
UH wasn't doing so hot either
young portal
@wary sun its cloakable
wary sun
ty
robust river
Vim Scalecrush with Socket \o/ 2 out of 4 now!
oooo
Ori's Tidal Wristwraps are the right bracers too arent' they? Or do I need to get the pufferfish ones?
lost horizon
Ori's are the best ST
robust river
That'll do for now. I'll upgrade them full before fishing for puffers then
Just boots to get now!
raven mica
Only get one
vestal wren
pufferfish is weaker then frost ones tho
unreal sail
whats the bis azerite traits for m+ nowdays?
im running 3 echo 3 ss but ive been seeing a lot of twist as well
vestal wren
3 echo 3 ss is fine, ttk is a discussable choice.
A lot of ppl use it for not 100% relateable reasons.
The logic behind is is that if you change your gameplay to use env more often that the trait boosts your single target performance.
(what works perfectly fine without the trait too)
However sims have not shown evidence and even more real world measurements like logs do also show diffrent trait setups seem to outpeform it.
this does not mean the trait is bad, its actually decently good,
and you will def. find ppl with arguments for the trait.
In fact top rogues love the trait so much they partly use it up to 3 times.
the most popular trait setup is 2ss 2 echo 2 ttk, it aims to make the spec good in everything.
how good of an idea that is and how well it does that is also discussable.
unreal sail
okay okay good to know. yeah i was thinkin would be decent cp spender even on trash
vestal wren
i think ppl worry to much about traits, in fact not having optimal traits is not uncommon and wont make you peform a lot worse. As mentioned i would even argue that the best players can use less efficient trait setups due to wrong assumption in impact of those.
also you are always limited to your azerite π
tropic ocean
@vestal wren β₯οΈβ₯οΈβ₯οΈβ₯οΈ
btw with reducing eb traits and using 3ss i reduced my crit and increased my mastery and results are good so far
πͺπΏ
burnt dome
How much crit & mastery are you on Ausgelebt?
I'm 34.68% crit / 11.84% haste / 41.13% mast
@tropic ocean
vast forum
3xSS really favors mastery
tropic ocean
with currently only using 1 eb i have the feeling crit isnt as valuable anymore
rain frigate
hey what stats do we look for in raid ?
doin queens court and wanna min max enchants and shit now usually an outlaw main
tropic ocean
what sim tells you to stat
Theres no βgo toβ stat as it varies massively depening on azerite/essences/gear
like my best is haste, other rogues is vers
burnt dome
I've been unlucky in getting a 3rd SS, so dont wanna make the swap you made yet but it seems like everyone who can get 3x ss is doing it
eager haven
Iβm gonna give 3ss another go, I need to re-gem my gear to mastery. I do love 3 eb tho lol, still lots of fun imo
tropic ocean
you don't really get the s2 value out of eb as the pull sizes are not as big anymore and no reaping
maybe you figured it yourself, what was an easy pull last season is a really hard pull now personally doing keys in 17~19 range I've not seen a pull close to what was usually pulled in 20s and 21s s2 anymore
eager haven
Yeaah, I mean I do 15-16, depends on dungeons as far as pull size, but I do see the gain with 3 ss for sure. I just enjoy 3 eb
burnt dome
pulls are defo smaller than last season yeah, but even in s2 you barely ever went 3xeb
unless it was forti teeming FH or something
chrome current
quick question why most rogues use bote on m aszhara??
arctic walrus
More uses and timings work out nicely with add spawns
Clf is primarily azshara damage
tropic ocean
ah shadowmelt only empowers ss I believe
but not subterfuge
but im not sure
1 or the other
arctic walrus
meld doesn't work on boss fights
placid ermine
i mean i know u dont get out of combat, but cant u just garrote out of meld?
(and have it empowered)
eager haven
Yes
placid ermine
so does it get SS bonus?
eager haven
Yes
placid ermine
and subterfuge bonus of 80% dmg done?
eager haven
You get the cps too. Idk about subterfuge dmg, probably not
placid ermine
So is night elf just the best dps race for alliance if u run 3x SS
tropic ocean
its the best race for sin-rogue in general m+ overall
eager haven
No no itβs best for all specs π
arctic walrus
no? human is
arctic walrus
meld just melds you, does it auto activate stealth? don't think so
So nothing gets empowered in a boss fight
civic palm
Does Human activate Human for you, or just Humans you?
civic palm
You also get partial empowerment from Meld, just not the entire thing.
and boss DMG is... wack to begin with.
eager haven
How wacky is it o_o
iron slate
Do we use potion of unbridled fury at all over superior battle potions?
arctic walrus
almost always yes
vast forum
to confirm - meld gets SS bonuses, but not subterfuge
cobalt pelican
i want shrouded to be a competitive raid trait so i can be nelf for all content
winter moss
we all have wishes
shut socket
meld isn't stealth
so you can't get a subterfuge window from meld
on a boss
in m+ if you step a little outside the pack you can get a restealth though
a meld stealth
this is a good macro for meld stealth in M+
#showtooltip
/stopattack
/cast shadowmeld
/cast [nostealth] Stealth
ember rover
You have to agree, exsang subterfuge build is so much better than MA TB.
winter moss
Personal opinions should be disregared at any point as feelycraft is not provable
worldly iron
I'm assuming he meant in terms of gameplay
winter moss
still is feelycraft
worldly iron
well, enjoying a certain type of gameplay over another isn't feelycraft, but it is still subjective opinion of course
worldly iron
for sure, but I do hope he just meant the gameplay
winter moss
and aswell the only reason this worked was the fact that you got 750 rating in a certain stat which allowed you to come up with some haste levels that were simply 
hope is lost in sin channel 
ember rover
I did mean gameplay.
winter moss
Personal preferrence
ember rover
TB and MA offer no depth to the spec.
winter moss
subter adds soo much more..
ember rover
You always TB on cooldown and MA doesn't change anything in your rotation.
I mean, it doesn't add that much, but adds some I would say.
winter moss
MA+TB: syncing vanish + vend from start
XSNG+SUBT: forced desyncing,
no actual change between these two
royal lantern
tb changes nothing on our gameplay
except
that the entire gameplay right now is around tb
but yeha π€·
lost horizon
MA+TB w/BotE is super fun imo
cause you don't have to stress about missing a crit
it's a shame CLF is tuned so high
ember rover
At least you get some usage out of BotE on last 2 bosses.
So it's not entirely all CLF.
lost horizon
yeah, slams in M+ too
just a shame, i had a ton of fun with it before CLF r3
really glad i didn't have to play lucid major at that point
twilit lantern
hey guys, on Ashvane Mythic do you use one fan for the bubbles? Have seen different logs from 0 to 3 and i'm a little confused
night vale
I didnβt, but most of the time people immuned the bubbles so we only had 1/2
If any
twilit lantern
would you fan if you get all 3?
lost horizon
with multiple DD i wouldn't recommend
rancid bobcat
I wouldn't bother
lost horizon
if bubbles need the damage tab and mut
twilit lantern
ok thanks
distant lava
Tbh if bubbles need the dmg go outlaw
lost horizon
pretty much
but you can have like weird moments where your usual bubble slammers get bubbled themselves or something
young portal
I just bang a rupture on one and change back to boss. Much better classes to deal with them
winter moss
hoary crown
Hmm I just did a 17+ and the thought hit me why the fck am I going full AoE setup this week, isnt it better to go like full st ? AD with the fckin birds seemed useless 2 have big dck AoE π
hoary crown
ttk ? π
winter moss
twist the knife
winter moss
i would almost never go 3 eb unless fort teeming
2 tops
and get some more ss traits as it is good for small packs boss fights
hoary crown
What if I go dd instead of EB on the gear I have currently ? o.O
winter moss
lemme get something real quickl
top 1 is eb casts bottom two are mut (mh and oh)
i do not recommend dd for keys anyway
worldly moon
As assa on orgozoa, would u be better off running an aoe build, or just pure st?
vestal wren
fok is your main builder if you want to do add damage
mut your main builder if it comes to boss damage
vernal fern
Is the "use TB and vendetta on cd rule" always right ? Because 2 min after MA opener, vendetta and vanish come off cd and TB is never synced if used on cd. Should I hold vendetta and vanish for when TB comes back?
lament dove
dunno, I found that my boss dmg wasn't better even with my pure ST build
with 3TTK/2EB/Loyal my boss dmg is the same (or even better) while I do some add dmg as well (just like other classes, or outlaw)
imho just try out - but if you go FoK, then get rid of DD and get TTK instead
young portal
@vernal fern I was told from someone in here (can't remember who) to always hold vendetta and vanish for TB if TB is still on cd. Never hold TB for anything
vernal fern
Aye thank.
Also, is it overkill to use coral with after vanish or should I use it right after MA buff expires?
minor orchid
prob use after so youre not overvaluing the crit
nocturne gate
@tropic ocean
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q23gjwmfTMy46HVC#fight=14&type=damage-done
ok u won
nocturne gate
but look at the fucking inkpod from the WW^^
our discussion from yesterday about how good/bad inkpod is. i dont use it and the WW used it
tropic ocean
yes
azshara and coral is a higher dps setup than inkpod and coral
and inkpod is only good when it crits
thats about it
and arguably inkpod is better on classes with higher haste
(e.g. fury)
nocturne gate
yeah its ok i get it :p
tropic ocean
i'm not that good with raidbots but if you know how to do it you can custom sim crit inkpod vs azshara coral
should give somewhat accurate results
nocturne gate
probably but now is stay using this combination. still enough ^^
nocturne gate
i let stack coral till 30 100% crit :D
robust river
What are generally seen as the better neck essences for Assassination?
BotE, COndense, Lucid, Iris, Crucible?
Need to start farming them, trying to give myself a priority order.
nocturne gate
clf for raid as major with lucid minor and iris/conflict.bote major for m+ and few specific bosses in TEP with lucid/conflict/iris minor
nocturne gate
u get crucible r3 with lvl 60 neck so u get it at first i guess ^^
all others are more ore less timegated
robust river
Ah fair enough. My neck is 62, sure my flame is only 2. Probably haven't done the quest;.
nocturne gate
probably
bright tusk
Do you guys use Poison Bomb, Crimson tempest or Hidden Blades for mythic+? I've stacked three echoing blades on my azerite pieces.
worldly iron
PB, always
bright tusk
also, I suppose you are supposed to use Master Assassin isntead of subterfuge in m+?
bright tusk
Why subterfuge over master assassin? I almost only use garrote on bosses anyway, should I use garrote on trash?
worldly iron
you should use 2-3 SS
worldly iron
since zine is here, let's see if I remember correctly
bright tusk
well rip me, I barely have any pieces with shrouded suffocation
worldly iron
maintain 4x bleeds (3 of them empowered garrotes to start every pack with) if you're at 11+ % haste, 5x bleeds if you're below 11% haste to get enough energy reg
bright tusk
So I'm supposed to only do garrote? I can do two, then wait for cd two times since I'm over 11% haste
worldly iron
you do three empowered garrotes when leaving stealth, then you put up a rupture on a fourth target
you don't apply regular garrotes midpull on trash
it's not worth the global
with subterfuge, you have 3 seconds after exiting stealth to use stealth abilities and this is where your Shrouded Suffocation traits comes into play since your garrote doesn't go on cooldown until subterfuge ends
bright tusk
I went through my bag, and I can equip azerite pieces that give me total of two shrouded suffocation, sacrificing one echoing blades.
Can I use this playstyle with these traits?
rigid mango
Yes
bright tusk
2ss and 2eb
bright tusk
I see
rigid mango
You'd want to aim for somewhere between 35-40% crit
And stacking mastery
Drop all haste
Vers is aight
rigid mango
Drop that haste if you can
And bump the other two as much as you can
You p much need two entirely diff sets for m+ and raid
bright tusk
I will have to work on this, I've focused more on raiding than m+ so far.
thanks for the insight
Yep
worldly iron
the way you said "also, I suppose you are supposed to use Master Assassin isntead of subterfuge in m+?" makes it sounds like you use subterfuge for raiding which isn't that good for ST
bright tusk
I dunno, I've simmed all possible combinations with patchwerk settings. Dunno why subterfuge comes out on top
worldly iron
circumstances matter, of course, depending on what gear you actually have available
but you want to aim to be able to use MA
bright tusk
It was a while ago I simmed talents for single target so I will have to sim it again
rigid mango
But optimally you wouldn't run them on ST
bright tusk
Any on use trinkets worth using in m+? I've got coral, font of power, lustrous, galecallers.
Currently using dead-eye spyglass and harlans loaded dice for m+
rigid mango
Coral on tyr weeks
Spyglass always
You can use plumage if you can pull big around it
bright tusk
oh alright, thanks again
robust river
How is font in M+? I find I rarely get to pre-pull it as tanks are trigger happy
bright tusk
holy shit what an upgrade it was using SS instead of stacking EB..
rigid mango
Simming for m+ is whack
And font's great if you don't get punished for usinf it
Before subt would stop it dropping stealth
Now it feels real bad
teal mesa
I'm currently running 2 eb/2 ss/1 ttk/1 normalize, with a 450 engi helm. If I can get a 435 helm with another ss, and then ttk or eb, do you guys reckon this be worth taking over the engi helm for m+?
sage tulip
I just swapped to Assa rogue for raiding.
What are the main stats?
Imo crit haste is BiS
But internet says haster mastery
lament dove
it depends on your current stats, that's why we are simming
but for assa the stats are a lot closer to eachother than for outlaw (at least for me they never were more than like 0,5 ponts away from eachother) so if you change 1-2 pieces the rankings can change around
rigid mango
@sage tulip with benthic and clf, basically anything is better than mastery
Granted you have a decent baseline mastery
lament dove
my current stats, 0,07 point difference:)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jPJdLKgVJpgnZJcu8yGWgP
rigid mango
with benthic
nocturne gate
isnt it still recommend to ignore more or less stat weights ? ^^ and instead just sim ? i mean for me as example haste is still bis even if its just my "second best" stat
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iLnMrE2RKi7DFNnNawnEmL
but haste gems enchant and so on are still winning^^
tropic ocean
u always sim top gear and not stat weights
lament dove
yes, you are correct
if you could change your stats 1 by 1 then stat weights could be followed to the letter, but gear pieces/enchants etc. change tens of stats, so they can change weights immediately
so simming top gear is of course the best way to see what is best from your current gear
tropic ocean
stat weights will tell u what is ur best stat with current equipped, while top gear will tell u what is best with all gear selected
fallow peak
What is the best way to use font and coral? Channeling font before pull puts coral on cd for the expected vendetta/coral. Do you just vendetta and use coral as sons as itβs ready?
Soon*
scarlet sequoia
font ~5 sec before pull, coral as soon as its up and then you extract the coral for crit on 2nd vendetta
π
rigid mango
@fallow peak #tc-updates
zinc zealot
the sims for mythic+ are scuffed. if u check the api legit 10 casts of garrote for no reason
in 15 seconds
tough dome
I have a question about trinkets, sim tells me Razor Coral - 415 & Loaded Dice - 410 w/ Socket, but I'm sitting on a 450 Galecaller's Boon, 420 Dead-Eye Spyglass and 420 Golden Plumage. Is the socketed trinket worth keeping equipped even tho it's a 410? I run what sims best for raid but I wasn't sure when it comes to m+, or if anyone had any suggestions.
rancid bobcat
It's not that socketed dice is good, but razor coral is extremely good
So razor coral will be your on use trinket and you can't use 2 on use trinkets (except for font+coral)
And then socket 410 dice beats out 420 spyglass
@zinc zealot where are you seeing this
shut garnet
if youre running plenty of crit, 2+
bitter rock
bout how much crit would u say?
shut garnet
idk like, 34-35 min?
bitter rock
27 prob 3+ target?
shut garnet
ye
id defo suggest getting more crit for m+ though
especially if you have more than 7/8% haste
rigid mango
Nah, you still fok at 2 targets @bitter rock
tough dome
thank you @rancid bobcat
plush remnant
Any red cards in mechagon worth getting?
arctic walrus
No, cyclotronic is the only viable choice if you need to be running the trinket
little cedar
ah sry
pseudo hamlet
Hey guys, I need a little help. I was wondering what piece of gear should I get for the 200k titan residuum.
My current gear:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3E5U3vnU6nfA2hEKgFNA3V
Anyway I don't expect getting anything beyond the first three bosses on the mythic Palace. Chest may be the biggest upgrade right now, but I'm going to replace it with one from the heroic/mythic boss.
So I don't consider getting a better chest piece though it could be higher % bonus for my damage right now because of the reason above.
drifting cloud
slithering loa probably
nimble tinsel
Best long term upgrade would probably be Gorak Tul's if you can potentially get Behemoth chest
drifting cloud
slithering loa is a bigger upgrade over hc zaqul helm than goraks is over radiance shoulders
pseudo hamlet
@drifting cloud Sivara drops TTK/DD helm though. I thought it could be better than slithering loa?
sour wasp
slithering>sivarra for me
pseudo hamlet
@drifting cloud Ouch, didn't know that it's so bad. Thanks.
sour wasp
@pseudo hamlet i can tell you that sivarra helm did beat 435 zaq for me, but also got crushed by slithering by like 500 dps
nimble tinsel
Fair enough, I forgot to set that, but the pieces being debated over didn't have LttE
I'll run it again properly, sec
shut garnet
are u also 10000% sure you dont wanna roll 4 pieces
thats 2 rolls for 2 slots and 1 roll for another
nimble tinsel
Definitely closed the gap some, but the order is still exactly the same, with Gorak's being the best choice, unless I'm missing something else
pseudo hamlet
@nimble tinsel thanks for the help! It seems we have a winner here π
@shut garnet Nah, I haven't got much luck these days. Don't want to gamble and be disappointed.
shut garnet
yeah goraks is defo the best piece then