assassination

[scarlet sequoia]

i just leech from ppl

[robust river]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Js7VTCb7hnfoNi3BHLSEW

I don't do anywhere near 29k haha

I'm happy when I hit 20k+

[solid nova]

2nd rate gems

Enchants missing

[robust river]

Oh yeah I know haha

I'm not here for gem advice yet, no point gemming sub optimal gear and weapons yet

It's a 370 iLVL weapon. I can't get a better to drop currently and it's hurting XD

[scarlet sequoia]

i mean honestly

with your gear

dont bother simming

[robust river]

So Raidbots shown DPS, that's the best DPs you can get out of that gear isn't it? Assuming you put all enchant/gems in and play perfectly? Am I understanding that properly?

Haha thanks Raz XD

[scarlet sequoia]

just focus on getting more gear

you wont do much with that gear

[robust river]

Only been back playing a few weeks so it's slow going. Current plan is to spam whatever mythic drops Dagger (TOl Dagor ideally) and Nazjatar to roll for pearls.

[scarlet sequoia]

im simming it for u now, moment

ye thats a good plan

remember to not upgrade benthic items without sockets

[robust river]

Yeah I've spent 160 pearls so far rolling

Which is why I was double checking best order this morning 😄

[scarlet sequoia]

😄

few min then sim is done

[robust river]

Cheers

We are starting Heroic EP this week so just trying to prep as many upgrades as possible for that. (We all only just came back to playing 3-4 weeks ago)

[scarlet sequoia]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4Q77GaZ1u8gfPFwehFnLHP

there u go

probably not perfect but its an increase

[winter moss]

triple ttk

[robust river]

Sweet. Is that EP or Mythic focussed? Does Raidbots have two modes for that?

[scarlet sequoia]

thats for raid

u cant rly sim for m+

[robust river]

Thanks for that, will have a play around with Raidbots some more. Is there anyway for me to see which gears you chose to sim?

So I can try and understand what I can ignore/bin?

Ah run sim again brings it up

Ah wait no it doesnt

[scarlet sequoia]

i just used my brain a little

youll learn as you play more what pieces are potential upgrades dont worry

[robust river]

TODAYS EMISSARY IS A WEAPON! Hurray!

[torpid cradle]

how is assa coampared to outlaw in m+ this season

[royal lantern]

outlaw is still #1

but it doesnt shit THAT MUCH on every single other dps spec in the game anymore, sin works

[rigid mango]

Outlaw s+, sin is like, s

[royal lantern]

see, unplayable /s

[rigid mango]

Outlaw however, is nearly required thanks to their utility

[royal lantern]

you can play sin, the difference is that outlaw is less effort/way more easy too gear/better utility cus of stuff like gouge, deffensive vansih etc.......

[bronze kelp]

if you dont play very high keys, it doesnt matter that much

but on the top edge players, outlaw shines a bit more.

[cobalt gyro]

Outlaw enables the other DPS to do damage

[sly marlin]

hey guys, what is the best way to use Razercoral with Font of power?

[royal lantern]

[sly marlin]

ok, the pin tells me to use coral with vendetta, does that actually mean i shoud always wait 15? so font, 15sec, vendetta and coral?

[cloud lichen]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ggq8iU9DRpb9nrjPDZPhBC hi guys i'm trying to improve my sim, but seems like i cant go further than that. Can someone please give me a hand?

[rigid mango]

more sockets 2 benthic

[solid nova]

Mythic azerite

Apply to other pieces under that ilvl

Sockets on rings

[cloud lichen]

that's the only stuff i can improve right? having luck with drops

[rigid mango]

I mean this far into the tier

not having full benthic is lazy, not lack of rng

unless you're the unluckiest person in the world

[cloud lichen]

today i spent 200 perls to find it

and i did not

[distant lava]

Yeah thats normal

[winter moss]

tell me when you on 1,2k pearls for a damn belt

and its not even the good one

[scarlet sequoia]

how tf u on that many pearls when theres 2 belts

[winter moss]

luck i guess

[spare dust]

Sounds more like exarragated numbers

[unique sierra]

I ran 4 toons for 2 months

Every day

And it took 2 full months to get boots

So exaggerated numbers isn’t the case some times

[rigid mango]

Wow that must've sucked!

[unique sierra]

That’s running 4 fucking toons lol

[rigid mango]

not sin related

go to #wow-general

[unique sierra]

Yeah it sucked it’s over now but I got it

[rigid mango]

if u wanna keep it up.

[distant lava]

Dayum I feel for you friend !

[spare dust]

Stock up on tokens, dont use 3 every day. There is bad luck prevention with sockets/tf right

So you dont use your good rng on wq garbage

XD

[distant lava]

No ?

[rigid mango]

How about

👉 #wow-general

[turbid osprey]

anyone fancy having a gander at some ashvane logs with me? we've been trying to 2 phase so im looking to squeeze out every last drop of damage i can

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6ThcPFNY1nzVq4wk - I'm Volniron, played outlaw for a few pulls but was sin for most

[scarlet sequoia]

not to be rude but there is no way you are 2 phasing with that dps

[turbid osprey]

think we're trying 3 phase tonight because of that tbh

it felt way off to me

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah overall raid dps is too low

[turbid osprey]

guess we just keep pluggin away. feel like there isnt much more i can do anyway

[vast forum]

every1 in the raid should be doing ~20% more dmg...

in the exposed azerite phase

[turbid osprey]

to 2 phase or just in general?

[vast forum]

to 2phase

[turbid osprey]

that'll be why we're not trying to anymore then haha, thats way way off

[vast forum]

idk, if you're 20% off, idk if you'll even have dmg to 3phase it...

[turbid osprey]

we got the boss to 16% i think before 3rd shield went up, or do you mean kill the 3rd shield then finish boss

suppose thats a lot of time too

[mystic dragon]

Does font channel break shroud?

[rigid mango]

Since it breaks stealth

Yeah

[mystic dragon]

Got it, just got one last night and I’d hate to pull a goofball move like start channeling right in front of the boss

[royal lantern]

if you get him too 16%before the 3rd shield you have the dmg

[turbid osprey]

Happened on 3 pulls out of the 20

[tropic ocean]

you need around 780-800k raid dps(on boss) during shield down phases

to 2 phase

[turbid osprey]

hmm

avergae damage during hero (2nd break) is 800k, but during first break is about 611

[stiff vortex]

hey, in the guide is written, taht u use vanish with vendetta, i mostly like to use vanish the first time after the empowered garrote is down.

but then i have about 20s delay on vendetta

[arctic walrus]

Yes that's normal

[stiff vortex]

so vanisch after opener is fine?

[rigid mango]

Yes, you vanish late and then align the 2nd vend to the 2nd vanish

so in about 2m 20 sec you will press both

[cunning blaze]

Would you guys pick conflict over iris (as minor) on orgozoa even if your role is to just prio boss?

[tropic ocean]

no

as conflict will give you less prio than iris

[cunning blaze]

Seems very smallish on sims, like 83 dps

[tropic ocean]

what did you sim

[cunning blaze]

50.9k

[tropic ocean]

I mean

what sim

[rigid mango]

Conflict and iris are very close

Like, really close

[cunning blaze]

Patchwerk

1 target 5 mins

[rigid mango]

Yeah yeah

Conflict is really good

if you're struggeling on prog, you can probably run conflict

[arctic walrus]

If you're keeping ruptures up, conflict might push ahead as well

[cunning blaze]

Alright thanks

[rigid mango]

Bingo

[grave trail]

should you wait for second CLF to use it among with second vendetta and first coral stack use?

or does clf not benefit from vendetta at all

[rigid mango]

It doesn't benefit from vendetta at all, but vendetta benefits from CLF haste

It's in the pins, for that matter

[grave trail]

so should you line them up?

waiting a min worht it?

[rigid mango]

Did you read the pin?

[grave trail]

yeah

but im r word

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/p9yfl7

[grave trail]

im trying to make a orange parse so little stuff like this matters

so hold clf for 3rd vendetta?

for minor gain

still a gain

[distant lava]

if it doesn't miss you a cast

[grave trail]

that means overcapping energy

correct

[distant lava]

no

[swift moss]

If you can get 3 casts of CLF use on cd and pair with 4th vendetta

[distant lava]

for example if the fight lasts 7 mins

if you hold for 3rd vendetta you miss a cast

[swift moss]

But if you can only get 2 use with 3rd vendetta

[distant lava]

so you don't hold

[grave trail]

ahh gotcha

[arctic walrus]

Vendetta gains value from clf through the 100% uptime of the 5% dmg buff as well

[grave trail]

i usually never pay attention to that tbh

how many casts

fk

[distant lava]

that's the most important stuff 😉

[grave trail]

my math sucks

Okay im back

Irrelevant you still there? @distant lava

[distant lava]

Yeah , why

[grave trail]

so my brain works in a different way and i made a chart

to see better the missed casts and what not

1st Vendetta 0:11
2nd Vendetta 2:11
3rd Vendetta 4:11
4th Vendetta 6:11
Fight end 7:00
5th Vendetta 8:11

1st CLF 0:10
2nd CLF 3:10
3rd CLF 6:10
Fight ends 7:00
4th CLF 9:10

you said if I hold for 3rd vendetta i miss a CLF cast?

[distant lava]

If you cast CLF at 4:11

With 3rd vendetta

You get it back at 7:11

When the fight has already ended

[grave trail]

Okay

[distant lava]

Nd if you dont hold it you get another cast at 6 mins

[grave trail]

that makes much more sense lol

ur rught

right

so pretty much it should most of the time be paired up with 4th vendetta

and first

[distant lava]

Not always

For example if the fight last 5 mins

[grave trail]

then no 4th vendetta

[distant lava]

If you cast CLF at 3 mins in its own or at 4 with vendetta

[grave trail]

ok

[distant lava]

You dont get another cast anyways so better pair them up

[scarlet sequoia]

just do what the that was in here one time did

vendetta prepull

[grave trail]

okk that makes sense

[scarlet sequoia]

😄

[grave trail]

thanks i understand much better now lol

i dont know why it didnt make much sense in my brain at first

1head

vendetta prepull huh lol

[fleet whale]

so crucible rank 3 sims about 200 dps higher than BoTE rank 3 for me o_0

[cedar fulcrum]

Coral + Azshara's font .. i guess sync Font with vendetta since the insane primary stat increase .. what about coral ?

[rigid mango]

Check the pins

[cedar fulcrum]

oh yeah

sorry

pin post says that font takes prio ,, but not coral usage

[arctic walrus]

"more info in #tc-updates "

[rigid mango]

^

[cedar fulcrum]

great ! ty

[robust river]

Benthic Gloves - Is it the Poen's ones?
"While in Nazjatar or the Eternal Palace, your spells and abilities have a chance to send out droplets which heal allies or deal Frost damage to enemies."

[vernal fern]

yup those are the ones

[robust river]

Sweet. Finally got one with a socket \o/

[vernal fern]

Noice 😄 I got mine 3 days ago as well ^^

[robust river]

Just bracers belt and waist to go haha

Doesit matter which way enchants are on weapons?

[rigid mango]

Nope

[grave trail]

bracers are hell

[robust river]

Indeed.

[rain pewter]

which one is the easiest? so i know which to target first

[rigid mango]

Waist

but it's also the worst dmg wise on ST

[dark crag]

at zaqul if i do 1. and 2. split is vop necessary?

[arctic walrus]

Yes

[little onyx]

What traits should I be using in m+?

[distant lava]

SS/ TTK /EB

[little onyx]

How many of each?

[scarlet sequoia]

5

[dark crag]

bote, lucid + vop for 1. and 2. split

?

[rigid mango]

Ye

[dark crag]

do i keep the 2nd vanish until 3. vend?

[rigid mango]

what trinkets are u using

/have

[dark crag]

me?

[rigid mango]

ye

[dark crag]

used razor+ink, but i think i switch to razor+cyclo

[rigid mango]

nah razor ink is giga

are u doign blast or chilling to transition

in p1

[dark crag]

dmg stop

[rigid mango]

then ink coral is giga

since everyone else shoudl stop early

[dark crag]

do autohits proc ink and coral?

[rigid mango]

and everyone with ink/coral

should keep on spamming dps

just to get stacks up

so like

You stop dps at like

90% or smth

say 92-93 can't member waht we did

and everyone with ink or coral or both keeps on dpsing like normal

to create as many stacks as possible

[dark crag]

the real boss are the 3 tentacles

too many japanese schoolgirls in raid

[nocturne gate]

i like japanese schoolgirls

[dark crag]

Are you a big and gross tentacle?

[hasty fiber]

anyone know why some rogues run Conflict and Strife in the Mythic Queen Azshara fight?

[fast kindle]

!Essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[glacial crypt]

MA build using vanish

You'd do Vanish > TB > Evnenom mutilate env mutilate?

Or TB first?

[hasty fiber]

im assuming you have 2-3 combopoints before you vanish>tb>envenom

[glacial crypt]

And what kind of opener would you use with the MA build?

gotten so used to subterfuge build

[hasty fiber]

@glacial crypt

its kinda funky on here

but

i usually do vanish then toxic blade for the extra dmg, but some would say that right there would be better for an extra crit on envenom

since MA is only 5 secs

[glacial crypt]

MA is like, 3 seconds

[reef granite]

correct

you do vanish envenom so you get 2 evenoms in your MA window

[glacial crypt]

So TB before vanishing

[reef granite]

I believe its optimal yes

[glacial crypt]

Thank you:))

[muted cove]

Its also better to envenom twice during MA since the 2nd one will be buffed by Elaborate Planning

[hasty fiber]

^ that too

[tropic ocean]

@hasty fiber because it has very good uptime

And with iris minor you drop stacks often due to target switching (hulk, adds, aethanel/cyranus, myrmidon)

[hasty fiber]

so would you say that would be better than crucible flame minor?

[wild kindle]

best 2nd minor for meme+ ?

[ember rover]

C&S is actually pretty good for M+

Same goes for raiding, actually.

[wild kindle]

was thinking bout it

hows lucid minor on massive aoe?

sounds useless but idk

[ember rover]

I believe lucid is always best minor, no matter the circumstance.

[wild kindle]

i eman im surely going for purification as 1st minor

its massive in meme+

[cobalt pelican]

lucid c&s is the most common

lucid gives you like what, 370 something vers with >70% uptime before even considering the refunds and healing

[ember rover]

Yup.

[wild kindle]

k thanks

[cobalt pelican]

i think if you were going based on pure damage to massive packs that are guaranteed to be stacked (6-10t+) purification probably beats out conflict but in the real world conflict will just give you a lot more value

[hasty fiber]

question, anyone on queen azshara rn?

can yall tell me what you are currently simming on single target

with bote major, con and strife minor and memory of lucid dream minor?

[arctic walrus]

what can you get from seeing a sim

[strange python]

what food do rogue's buy for M+ ?

[long anchor]

Crit or mastery

[hasty fiber]

just examples of how much dps output i should be doing @arctic walrus

i always take 3k dps off from sims anyway since its unrealistic

[arctic walrus]

You could just go to logs and check specifically how much each rogue is doing on azshara

[ember rover]

You have too much downtime on Azshara for sims to be effective.

Fight is basically a 3 part fight.

First a 2 minute 2 target fight.

Then a 2 minute 1 target fight.

Then a 3 minute 2 target fight.

Then again 1.5 minute 1 target fight.

4 parts, actually 😄

[hasty fiber]

opog

[grave trail]

So i was watching some of the top rogues on parses and i saw they all used the first cast of coral at around 15-20 seconds after fight starts

is there any reason for this, isnt it to start stacking it asap

better*

[rigid mango]

Theyr'e using font and coral?

[grave trail]

let mesee

yeah

[ember rover]

Most likely they are.

When you use font, coral goes on 20s CD.

SO that's why.

[rigid mango]

Seems eerily like that CD

[grave trail]

ahhhhh gotcha did not know that

so when you dont have font do you use it before first mutilate? or at same time as first mut

or macro maybe?

[rigid mango]

Wut

It's a channel

[grave trail]

the first cast of coral

[rigid mango]

Oh, just whenever

You just use it as soon as you can after opening

[grave trail]

ok

[rigid mango]

If it ever makes a diff, it's a 1 stack diff

that most likely wont impact enough so

[grave trail]

true

[chrome forum]

How are some rogues able to beat their sims by such a large margin on seemingly single target fights?

Looking at ashvane

[drifting cloud]

every class does that

[worldly iron]

kill time

[chrome forum]

So for bohemouth its pretty much impossible to get decent logs unless you 2 platform it on mythic? etc?

[rigid mango]

To get top tier logs, ye

[chrome forum]

Makes so much sense, thanks for answering my dumbass question

[rigid mango]

Stuff that has set timers/phases

You can easily log much better thanks to kill timers

first 3 are perfect examples of that¨

[chrome forum]

looks like i'm fucked for the rest of the raid then 😛

cheers mate

[rigid mango]

I mean

You can get decent logs without having perfect kill timers

95+

but you can't roll 100's without them

[sullen pagoda]

yeah

[rigid mango]

My logs have fucked kill timers

but they're fine

[drifting cloud]

even if you check top logs on some fights you will see 1 min or more differences on kill timers

[sullen pagoda]

especially on first 3 that get pugged by every random and has much higher number of logs

[rigid mango]

Sometimes people just had nutty luck

Everything crit, welp insane log

even tho it wasn't greatest kill timer

[chrome forum]

i really dont like the RNG Crit combo points

[rigid mango]

I mean, it's the one thing that's reactive in the spec

Idm it

[sullen pagoda]

I mean you got 50 things that are rng that impact your log

[chrome forum]

get lucky and you can get 4 env into TB, unlucky and you get 3?

[sullen pagoda]

hell lucid is biggest rng fiesta of them all

you can become fury warrior level of spam with good procs

[rigid mango]

Just going straight 3-4 env each tb window

is so much damage

compared to 2-3

There's a lot of RNG and that's how it's gonna be

sin doesn't have the highest variance, but afaik it's aight

[chrome forum]

indeed, at that point how do you feel about your EP and ENV buff uptimers?

[rigid mango]

I mean, I pool and play around them when I can

It's a very minor gain in the end

and a lot of the time you gain p much nothing, because lucid woulda done it for you anyways

[sullen pagoda]

yeah personally i just play around EP dont even track envenom lmao

[rigid mango]

I track both

but if EP's done, Env is done too

more or less

if I pool to the point where env is out

Env wont matter

you get nearly every muti inside of env windows by just playing the game anyways

[chrome forum]

Ah

thanks man

Are there any talents in the tree that you wish were better/more viable?

[rigid mango]

Exsang possibly?

all of the last ones for m+ purposes

Maybe deeper strat and possibly MFD?

Although I prefer tb to exsang anyays

Should just remove something and put in kingsbane tho

[chrome forum]

Kingsbane ftw

I kinda thought that with lucid coming we might not be still using vigor tbf

[rigid mango]

It's not a big diff

[chrome forum]

it feels different to play though imo

[dire steeple]

Kingsbane

[rigid mango]

I mean, I think EP is by far the best in first row

I think TB is generally the best in that row

talking from a gameplay standpoint

It's mostly about vigor/ds/mfd and last row

since you take PB in literally every scenario

Maybe MA vs subt?

[chrome forum]

pray to RNGsus for procs on adds

[rigid mango]

I wish there was more cleave to make subt more viable

[sullen pagoda]

i wish dispatch was actually useful talent

[rigid mango]

Meh, PB rng isn't high impact anymore

Blindsied

I think blindside'd be dope if it actually worked properly

but DD killed off that ever happening, aslong as that's a trait

[sullen pagoda]

yeah DD not working with the talent was such a bad decision from blizz

[rigid mango]

That being said

[sullen pagoda]

if it was even a decision, they probably forgot the talent existed

[rigid mango]

Do you ever play blindside even if it does?

[sullen pagoda]

i have no idea tbh

[rigid mango]

EP is like

more or less

10% damage increase

[sullen pagoda]

yea

[rigid mango]

since it's nearly always up

I'm v glad MP isn't good

same for VR, same for nightstalker

they're all giga boring

last row talent being good is what sin really needs, then I'm p happy

[sullen pagoda]

yea

[robust river]

You play around Envenom by accident anyway don't you since you are playing around Elaborate planning? I.e. not pooling until EP fades? I guess there's an extra 2 seconds you could play around of Envenom.

[rigid mango]

I mean, yeah

[robust river]

And agree, better option in last talent tree would nice. Poison Bomb is beginner friendly but having it locked behind a 20% RNG is meh.

[rigid mango]

Lucky that RNG doesn't matter tho

that's the thing

It doesn't do any huge damage, so getting fucked on rng a couple times doesn't change much

[robust river]

It's just sad the final row is basically RNG AFK AOE damage gain vs worse but more reliable ramp up AOE vs bad but reliable AOE

Actually question, Prey on the Weak - is there any reason to take this in EP? Maybe Azshara for the big adds if your on stun duty?

[rigid mango]

Yeh, azshara

But yeah, main issue I see atm with sin is the last row

the fact that PB is the best choice even for m+ is very dumb to me

and that it really shows that the other options are truly undertuned

[robust river]

Yeah it's odd that last row. 6th row sucks too IMO. All 3 are bad/useless for raid pretty much. Seems weird not to atlest have a semi decent raid choice in there.

[rigid mango]

is that the cc utility?

[robust river]

Atleast for boss damage anyhow

Yeah

[rigid mango]

I mean those aren't for raid

idm them

They're interesting utility

[robust river]

They are, but having none do much in raid feels bad IMO. Maybe allow the secondary effect to work even when the stun/silence isn't on? Prey would probably be overtuned then though.

Like if they're unsilencable still reduce damage for half the duration? If unstunnable still do half udration amp damage

[drifting cloud]

I mean every class has a row like that

[rigid mango]

Exactly

[robust river]

True I guess.

[rigid mango]

I have no issue with there being that

Last tier we only had conc where it was useful

this tier, it's potentially azshara if ur on stun duty

It should have the posibility to be more diverse in m+

but the other options are a bit too undertuned for sin in comparison to iron wire

[robust river]

I assume prey is default for M+?

Ah iron wire for the garrote damage?

[rigid mango]

Nope, iron wire in every scenario

Not damage

[robust river]

Silence*

[rigid mango]

extra silence and damage reduc

It's super good

IB is interesting and I ran it a lot early on last season

But using kidney with prey feels aweful

great with ib

but ironwire is too good

[robust river]

I assume Prey is super hard to sim as well thinking about it? As its worth depends on everyone elses damage output?

[rigid mango]

Yah ofc

but it will out dps ib if everyone's hitting the target

every time

[robust river]

And then you have inconistencies on what can/can't be stunned too

[royal lantern]

prey needs a high ammount of players actually focus that 1 target

like, if you stun the hulk on aszhara

[rigid mango]

Nah, it doesn't need a lot

to be a dps gain

think about it

10% of everyone doing say

40k

[royal lantern]

yeha but

my own dps

[rigid mango]

that's like, 6 people

including yourself

[robust river]

Yeah, it's a good bump. Would bump my 20k to 22k 😄

[rigid mango]

I mean, you're not accounting for wasting a gcd, energy and 5 cp on a spell that does no dmg itself

[robust river]

Ah yeah that's true as well. So you have to remove EV+Increase poison damage from it

[rigid mango]

I mean yeah

It's got huge potential gain for raid damage

on stuff like hulk

Tkae this example

raid did 587.7k dps on first hulk

That's an added neraly 60k from pressing kidney

[distant lava]

I mean that's one of the reasons why outlaw is so good in keys

[rigid mango]

Although if u have an outlaw it's even better

[robust river]

Yeah true. I should really try outlaw at some point (I know, dirty to say in here).

Means trying to find a sword though haha. Took me ages get a dagger.

[lapis osprey]

So, I was told undulating tides was a shitty trait, but it is the highest on bloodmallet for single target..?

[rigid mango]

Have you read what the trait does?

[lapis osprey]

Well it procs frost damage on hit..?

[rigid mango]

Have you read all of it?

Hint

http://prntscr.com/pa9pl5

this part

[lapis osprey]

Ooooooh. I see, now. So it'd mean I'd gain damage as long as I don't don't drop under 50%..?

[rigid mango]

Yes

And as soon as you d

ALL of the damage effect is gone for 45 seconds

So in a realistic scenario, where you will drop hp, it's a very bad trait

[lapis osprey]

I see. Thanks for the explanation, me dummy. x.x

[rigid mango]

glgl 😄

[lapis osprey]

So my azerite pieces are indeed terrible... x.x

[honest needle]

does any 1 kno todays new affixes. my addon isnt working

[rigid mango]

Are you NA?

[honest needle]

ya

[rigid mango]

Read your key?

[crystal vault]

crippling poison is only slow right? doesnt do any dmg

[honest needle]

reset didint happen yet

[rigid mango]

@crystal vault ye

[honest needle]

Im asking for when reset hits

[rigid mango]

I mean, first of all

not a sin question

second of all

how are we supposed to know when it's a week that's never happened before

since we're in first rotation

🤷

wait for reset like everyone else.

[honest needle]

alot fo people have sites and addons that tell them

mines not working

[rigid mango]

Sucks.

[honest needle]

and i was just curious if anyone knew

no reason to b an ass

[rigid mango]

no reason to ask a stupid question in the wrong channel 😄

[honest needle]

get over it

[rigid mango]

How ironic.

[honest needle]

dont respond then if u dont wanna awnser

no reason to be nasty

[rigid mango]

Don't ask the question in the wrong channel

[honest needle]

are u the discord police dude

relax

[rigid mango]

we've got rules for this exact thing

Feel free to read the rules like you're asked to when joining 🙂

[honest needle]

ok thats fine. regardless no reason to be an ass

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/pa9uhb

[honest needle]

thats called being an ass

i kno what u said

[robust river]

I took the 2seconds to google it. EU - Bursting Skittish and Tyrannical apparently.

https://en.wowaffixes.info/

No idea if that's reliable or not.

But agree, #wow-general

[shrewd night]

Correct questions -> Correct channels.

[dark crag]

When do i use adrenalin rush?

[robust river]

Look at this mad man now.

[storm forum]

Hi I'm on orgozoa and I am using echoing blades with deeper stratagem. Should I focus on fully dotting the ads? Or should I put minimal bleeds on them (enough to maintain full energy regeneration) and focus on envenoming the boss? Also, should I ever not use a finishing move and continue to use fan of knives while at full energy? I do not have scent of blood traits unfortunately, if that changes anything.

[neat estuary]

the question you should be askin is "does the raid need more add dmg or more boss dmg"

@storm forum

the answer to that should give you the answer on what you should focus on as a player

you will find conflicting information if you look at random public logs

understand the boss, understand your raid and fill the role thats needed to kill the boss (i would guess its most likely boss dps thats missing since the dps check is kinda tight depending on your setup)

[storm forum]

Ok

[rigid mango]

99% of the time, go standard boss dps

[nocturne gate]

if u dont care about ur logs :D

[rigid mango]

There's way more efficient ways to get more add damage than swapping sin stuff around

Much better classes at doing that

[storm forum]

The farthest we got was the 4th set of ads. We were light on AoE/add damage last time after the opener (combustion destroyed the first set) and we had a couple deaths so the third set still had like 30% hp when the 4th set came.

We only had like 10ish pulls though. And someone is swapping to their shadow priest (and another rogue said they would see if they could had azerite for outlaw) so I guess I'll have to see where we are at tonight

[nocturne gate]

if u are confident with sub and have azerite for it u meld boss. eb destroy fully the adds and outlaw is a good mix

[rigid mango]

If you're proggin the fight

Going eb build is hampering your raid

99% of the time

There's better solutions to add damage than going that build that does absolutely nothing

and it is a very boss damage oriented fight, even though that might sound weird

[spare dust]

Play subtlety

[neat estuary]

@rigid mango is right

there are much better classes for add dmg

still ... most raids have to work with what they have

[rigid mango]

Yeah, but most of the time you'll have a class that's more efficient in cleaving

or spec

Like outlaw.

[neat estuary]

yes

[shrewd night]

You can use echoing blades build.
orrrrrrrrrr, you know.. Both outlaw and sub are pretty good.

[rigid mango]

Offering up all your ST for the sake of AoE/cleave is very innefficient for sin

Yeah, agreed

[neat estuary]

but then again, outlaw might be overkill for add dps in that specific case

[rigid mango]

Both the other specs are better on prog

Outlaw does less add damage than you think

[neat estuary]

what i want to say is, its not black and white most of the times

[rigid mango]

It does good add damage

But it does a fuckton of funnel

[neat estuary]

thats why i said, understand the boss, understand your raid and your role in it

[rigid mango]

[shrewd night]

Its not black and white, yet echoing blades is still bottom tier solution for most scenarios involving orgozoa.

Outside of that

Fully agree with your post

[rigid mango]

I mean if people go EB on prog

I would get them out of prog

Unless your comp is so insanely funnel ST focused

That you really, really have to

[neat estuary]

i am not even sure if i used it on prog 😄

[rigid mango]

Sub's better for boss damage, outlaw's better for the fight if you need a mix of both

The one fight sin sucks at

[neat estuary]

i think we just had the rogues try out some shit and felt like adds and boss are going down pretty good at some point, so we just all stick with what we had at the time

and it worked out well

[tropic ocean]

just play your best

[storm forum]

I always play my best

[robust river]

I tend to just rupture adds and return to boss on Orgozoa. Don't do adds

We suck though so ignore me aha

[steep obsidian]

i mean yeah if you do that and build for single target you should be right up there on boss damage

which is still important

but erryone gotta get that high parse

[storm forum]

I might just go sub for this fight

[teal mesa]

Can anyone suggest any streamers that push high keys as sin?

[rigid mango]

twitch.tv/incarnated

Worlds best sin rogue^

[robust river]

You'll make him blush 😄

[rigid mango]

Well, technically 5th now apparently

but ye, worlds best

[teal mesa]

So in m+ does mastery become more important? Can't help but notice top m+ rogues with like 8-9% haste and then a bunch of crit and mastery.

[shut garnet]

yesss mastery is very good

its like crit>mast=vers>haste

[storm forum]

In AoE haste becomes pretty crappy

[teal mesa]

And does that transition into raiding too, or would it be better to run more haste in raids?

[rigid mango]

haste is near null on aoe

and really good on ST

[storm forum]

Haste is king in single target

[rigid mango]

Mastery is pretty meh nowadays on ST

[shut garnet]

raids is haste mastery vers crit

or crit vers

[rigid mango]

but the best in m+

[storm forum]

Crit is second best for me in raid st

[rigid mango]

rn you run 1 eb and get crit to about 35%

then rest into mastery

And stack SS traits

[shut garnet]

2ttk over2eb?

[teal mesa]

Kek, okay so if I want to take sin into both then I would be best running two sets, one with focus on haste and another for mastery?

[shut garnet]

one with focus on haste mastery, one with crit mastery

[rigid mango]

in essence yes

I would like 0 haste

if i could

for m+

[storm forum]

I think you should always sim things to give yourself a better idea of where you want to go too.

[rigid mango]

No.

Not for m+

[shut garnet]

it obviously depends from character to character but a sim will never ever tell anyone no matter what to run haste for m+

LUL

[rigid mango]

Granted you're optimised

You're running r3 blood

which gives about 10% haste when it goes full stacks and procs

the minor, that is

and you get that from about 2-3 foks

So on every pack you're essentially playing with ATLEAST 16% haste, but more realistically 18-20%

You can run more EB's but in this meta it's not needed

Granted you do, more crit is good

But right now, 3 SS 1 EB is a good base for everything and anything

[shut garnet]

is it irontide, pistoleers and blackwater that gives 3ss 2ttk 1eb

[rigid mango]

adding on ttk, bbi or another eb on there

Is good

Aslong as it's any of them you're fine

And yes, Sin is a fucking abomination to gear.

[shut garnet]

but it feels too good when you get full bis

has anyone cracked what the most optimal trinkets are for m+ on tyr weeks

[rigid mango]

Coral spyglass will always work on tyr weeks

[shut garnet]

better than coral inkpod?

[rigid mango]

Although I've seen people muck about with the ML trinket

since apparently it got stealth buffed

[shut garnet]

did it?

[rigid mango]

Apparently so

Heard it from one source I trust, and saw seli w it equipped

So either truly mastery whoring

Or it's actually decent

I mean, flat mastery + agi proc is preeetty good for m+

[shut garnet]

time to farm ml

[rigid mango]

Depends entirely on how good it actually is

[shut garnet]

to be fair my mastery is pretty low atm

im like 40crit 35mast 10vers

is socketting mastery instead of crit ever good

[rigid mango]

I'm not socketing mastery yet bec I need the crit sockets to keep my crit up

but when I optimise my gear a bit more

I'm aiming for 60% mast

[vernal fern]

Seli said that he runs 1 EB only on KR/Sephra/Boralus that have smaller packs, otherwise he pretty much always goes 3xSS 2xEB 1xTTK. On big pull you still want more than 1 EB

[rigid mango]

When'd he say that

[tardy ether]

he also has the ml trinket in 455 which obviously makes it a lot better

[rigid mango]

I mean

Shit at 455 is still shit

Granted it's shit, or maybe it's good

and in that case being 455 is great

I had 2 of them at 425 socketed last season and they were still worse

[tardy ether]

I tried it in a few dungeons and it ended up with 20-25% uptime usually

and the fat mastery is really good for triple ss

[vernal fern]

Thing is agility doesnt boost your aoe dmg very much even tho its not that bad

[rigid mango]

Agi is great

[vernal fern]

FoK with EB doesnt scale with agi at all

[rigid mango]

Do you think that's all your damage or?

SS is majority damage with 3 ss

Garrote*

Thinking purely around EB when you're only running 1-2 whilst relying on 3 stacking something else seems weird to me

[tardy ether]

yeah garrote should be still your #1 dmg in dungeons unless there is like insane packs where fok with eb pulls ahead like shrine on eels

[tropic ocean]

it depends on the dungeon

with 3 ss 2 eb 1 ttk mostly eb is my highest :9 - in trash heavy dungeons

[shut garnet]

do you still FoK 2+ targets with 3ss2ttk1eb

with 40crit

[rigid mango]

I believe that's still the case

[vagrant tapir]

Holy shit boys

i've rolled 5 445's from the vendor this season

Gorak Tul, Slithering Loa, Cephalohide

and blighted tribe/fluid machinations, but those aren't as good, atleast not for raid.

[shut garnet]

guessing the murky wins for m+ right

[royal lantern]

speed is bis, ofc it wins

with speed you can run too the next pack without stealth faster cus your tank didnt let you stealth

[shut garnet]

my vers is like 10% but its the same as my mastery so i guess i can affort to cut some to get like 50%

[fallow star]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[tropic ocean]

@vagrant tapir cool man you have raid bis from vendor and 2 very good m+ pieces

[woeful wraith]

did worldvein get changed? Someone in guild said there was an update to it but can't provide any notes

[rigid mango]

not afaik

[harsh sphinx]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[glacial crypt]

You know, I'm a little hesitant to follow what the sim is telling me to do

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/#GandS

I'm sitting at 41% Mastery, and it says I should put mastery in my gems? 😄

[dark crag]

What essences are you using? Patchwork or dslice?

[vast forum]

ignore general guide stat weights

[rigid mango]

Link the sim

[glacial crypt]

i linked the wrong thing

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eYLL5kL2sVgTJKjs2dp8N5

Apologies

[rigid mango]

You have 2 ttk and no CLF

It'll like haste

mastery*

[glacial crypt]

So if I were to use CLF it'll want me to take crit / haste gems?

[rigid mango]

CLF generally values everything apart from mastery

But your traits do also favour mastery

[glacial crypt]

Ahh god dammit I simmed with the wrong helmet

[rigid mango]

Unless you're doing last 2 bosses

CLF > BoTE

[glacial crypt]

I'll be progressing Zaqul tomorrow

[rigid mango]

Then it'll be diff

You won't be running iris, you'll be running vision

[glacial crypt]

Even if my vision is only rank 2?

[vast forum]

i'd go 0 haste on za'qul

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[vast forum]

full crit/mastery

[rigid mango]

vision only needs rank 1

[glacial crypt]

Oh wow

[rigid mango]

Granted you're on echo duty

Which I assume you are

[glacial crypt]

I'm not

[rigid mango]

You're not?

Then you're fine, don't run vision

And just run standard CLF setup

[glacial crypt]

The rogue I'm replacing gave me a lot of pointers and this was the trait setup he told me to use

[rigid mango]

Also you sim 2 loyal without a single loyal with you

[glacial crypt]

Though the helmet he told me to use was different

[rigid mango]

Yeah well, either he played another role

or he didn't know what he was talking about

[glacial crypt]

One second

I'll go through our chat to see what I'll be doing in the fight

I asked if I should spec into echoing though and he told me not to

[rigid mango]

Oh god no

That's total troll on prog

it's a good setup if you ultimatly want to parse whore

[glacial crypt]

Can we take this to DMs, by any chance?

[rigid mango]

Go for it

[whole peak]

1 trait of SS with Subterfuge or 1 Twist the Knife with master assassin?

[rigid mango]

Sim it.

Most likely the latter.

But there's stuff that can impact that choice and make it swing either way

[whole peak]

thought so, thanks 🙂

[robust gull]

how close are outlaw and sin overall for mythic raiding right now?

[rigid mango]

Sin is generally considered the best progress spec

but if you're not raiding super top tier, it wont matter

[robust gull]

cause im looking at rankings and seems like half the fights outlaw is on top and the other half sin is

[rigid mango]

outlaw has fights this tier where it fills holes/roles that sin doesn't/can't

I mean, take into account that outlaw is insanely good at "doing damage"

whether that damage is relevant or not is another thing

Sin blasts bosses, sticks to bosses, and doesn't lose as much from downtime

Aka doing mechanics

Thus being a very consistant and forgiving progress spefc

[granite rampart]

the fights outlaw is higher on theres low hp adds that they blade flurry. radiance, ashvane, zaqul. the only fight i would say outlaw is straight better at is orgozoa

[robust gull]

im mainly asking because i want to join a mythic raiding guild and dont want to get laughed at if i try joining as outlaw (which is what im currently playing)

[granite rampart]

you wont get laughed at for playing outlaw

[raven mica]

Loktark just killed M Azshara whilst being an outlaw main

[rigid mango]

How is that relevant tho

[raven mica]

cuz he very clearly doesnt get laughed at for being an outlaw main

[rigid mango]

I mean

He's also arguably one of if not the best outlaw player in the world

He wont ever get laughed at for playing outlaw

If he feels he can

Outlaw is more than fine to raid with

This tier it's actually been really good

[robust gull]

if youre recruiting and you see two rogues similar gear/exp, youre going to pick sin over outlaw most of the time?

[rigid mango]

I would, yeah.

[granite rampart]

not at all

[rigid mango]

If you're looking at equal candidates

and one is sin, one is outlaw

I'd pick sin

[raven mica]

you pick the one who can play the other spec better

[rigid mango]

I mean

if one is a far bit better, then obviously you choose that

[granite rampart]

idk theres too many factors to consider when recruiting. the spec isnt as important as their play

[rigid mango]

but if on entirely equal footing, just one that's sin one that's outlaw

from a tryhard-y progress perspective, I'd pick sin

[raven mica]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nzLaknmrRPrSyCFsYDHHbn
Sometimes the single digit IQ outlaw player cna also play sin

[rigid mango]

Unless for some reason outlaw is entirely broken

Or very much so needed

[scarlet sequoia]

just cus u sim decent doesnt mean u can play it

[raven mica]

i just wanted to link that rq

[granite rampart]

yeah and most rogue players dont one-trick their spec

[rigid mango]

Ehh

[raven mica]

ehhh

[rigid mango]

You'd be surprised by the amount that do.

[granite rampart]

especially if theyre in a good progression guild

[raven mica]

[rigid mango]

Sure.

But we're not talking about that

[granite rampart]

yeah

[rigid mango]

We're tlaking about sin v outlaw

I'd say most players are open to play either, a lot atleast

[raven mica]

well, except the fotm reroll rogue players who only play outlaw to push M+ but ya know

[granite rampart]

big true

[rigid mango]

But yeah, this tier has had such a small diff compared to others this expac in how good the two specs are

Outlaw is more than fine.

[raven mica]

thank fucking jesus

only time I ever got forced to play sin was actually right now

cuz my other rogue buddy is gone

and VOP on zaq is pretty good

[rigid mango]

Only time I had to play outlaw was for orgo

🤷

[granite rampart]

same

[rigid mango]

Tomato tomato

[granite rampart]

and i hated every minute of it

[raven mica]

the 2 other rogues got to stay sin for orgo...

[rigid mango]

I hated the fight, not outlaw

[robust gull]

also had a question about twist the knife, neither ravenholdt nor wowhead mention it as a good trait, but seems like its widely used?

[rigid mango]

It's good yeah

[raven mica]

a lot of the good pieces have it on it

[rigid mango]

but mainly because it's on pieces tha are great

[raven mica]

Blackwater, Cephalohide

[rigid mango]

Mainly chest pieces, yeah

Not thanks to ttk

but having 1 BiS trait + OP

[raven mica]

cuz of OP

[rigid mango]

and then a ttk there to fill in the gap

since TTK is far from a bad trait, but not BiS as a standalone trait either

[raven mica]

well idk if I'd call LttE a BiS trait

[rigid mango]

I would

For sure.

No doubt about it

[raven mica]

well oK then.

[rigid mango]

The fact that it's +- a DD

in damage

Since from a sim standpoint, cepha and blackwater are +-0

But that's not even accounting for the extra damage gain if someone dies

which someone will, somtime

So by itself, it's equal to a DD, granted someone dies, it's better

Seems BiS to me

[hoary crown]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gfdW2w8SL5e2iU6mF7qW29

Going after gorak tuls would be the smartest thing to do right? our guild is currently on court

[rigid mango]

Yep,

Unless you want a potential gain that's gonna be null as soon as you get zaq helm

[raven mica]

wtf Gorak Timbs is 2% ahead of 2nd bis

[hoary crown]

yeah exactly! yeah it's insane, the blightborne infusion is a fckin beast

PRay for me boiz and gals! ❤

[raven mica]

well now idk if I wanna buy irontides or gorak

[rigid mango]

also

@hoary crown https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a6rK1u9waevRyPsccVG9Lx

Granted you have enough loyals

[hoary crown]

loyals? ^^ @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

Loyal to the end

Yer helm

[hoary crown]

hmm wtf, is loyal better O.o

If ppl runs it ofc

[rigid mango]

Yah, BiS in some circumstances

But ye, 500 dps from ur 2nd np

NP is so underwhelming this tier it's insane

[hoary crown]

how many ppl do you need to be for it to be worth runnin ? 😮

[rigid mango]

4

Other than yourself

[hoary crown]

Thx a shitloads mate, youre a fckn king, or queen!!!

[rigid mango]

King.

[hoary crown]

❤

[viscid eagle]

when should i go for the master assasin talent ? i sim higher with sub

[hoary crown]

depends on traits ma dude ^^

[arctic walrus]

When you drop ss traits

[rigid mango]

When you don't have any shrouded

generally

any shrouded = subt, no shrouded = MA

[viscid eagle]

it feels so wierd to vannish after vendetta runs out cause the garrote mnust run out with sub to do max dmg

[rigid mango]

Yeh, it's a bit awk

But you align your 2nd vendetta to your 2nd vanish

So that means you'll be vanishing with your vendetta after the opener

[acoustic cipher]

Evening everyone ^^

[viscid eagle]

vanish before vendetta so it will be vanish garrote garrote rupture trinket/essence vendetta spam envenom?

after the opener

[rigid mango]

the opener is standard

wait 20 ish seconds to vanish to get another empowered garrote out

but the 2nd vendetta, you wait for it to align with your vanish

and then use them together

to get the empowered garrote ticking during your vendetta

same goes for any vendetta and vanish window past the first one

[whole peak]

does ashvane razor coral devalue crit?

[rigid mango]

A bit, yeah

[whole peak]

well im getting about an extra ~500 haste from gems/enchants, but do have the coral, was gonna sim with crit, but itd be costly to do just for a sim

[rigid mango]

I mean, it's not super duper impactful

I'd just sim all of it

[whole peak]

gotcha, thanks

[rigid mango]

The diff wont be huge either way

[shut pasture]

would 3 SS 2 fan 1 TTK be better than 2/2/2 in overall performance

[lost horizon]

Probably, especially as a Nelf

More into SS means that you get screwed a little harder if your stealth gets scuffed from pug tank or whatever

[shut pasture]

why is 2/2/2 recommended then

[arctic walrus]

2/2/2 is just good as a general base that covers everything instead of a focus

[shut pasture]

doesnt 3 ss outshine 2 ttk everywhere though?

ttk just feels like nothing

[sterile ocean]

whats the highest benthic can go ilvl wise on wowhead it showed i can go up to 455

[tropic ocean]

yes it does @shut pasture

@sterile ocean atm 425

430 for azerite afaik

[sterile ocean]

oh ok i was confused cause wowhead was showing 455

[shut pasture]

so maybe 3ss 2 fok 1 ttk is the way to go

[tropic ocean]

wow just shows every item scalable to max ilvl

[shut pasture]

🤔

[sterile ocean]

ahhh

[tropic ocean]

i use 3ss 3fok or 3 ss 2eb most of the time

Switching between fort and tyran and dungeons

[sterile ocean]

also i dunno if anyone has seen this today but on the loading screens does it go brighter then darker then back to bright? for anyone

[shut pasture]

imagine 3 ss 2 fok 1 bbi

[lost horizon]

Sin traits have always required a bit of brainpower to determine what's best for you, in your group, in whichever dungeon on a particular set of affixes

[tropic ocean]

U can have that no?

[lost horizon]

That's doable yeah

[tropic ocean]

Gorak + raiment + eb ss helm

[lost horizon]

Just can't have BBI w/3 EB

[tropic ocean]

only problem is 3rd ring traits

atm i use blackwater pistoleers and ss eb helm

If only you could farm some currency to change traits on gear ><

[shut pasture]

hmmm

maybe not even worth to use 1 ttk

@tropic ocean is there a fok/ss helmet?

[lost horizon]

Ye

Fluid machinations iirc

[tropic ocean]

ye

well the problem is you are limited by pieces

so with blackwater you dont really have a choice

[shut pasture]

i have cephalophide and gold tasseled 445

already

rolling a helmet tomorrow

hoping for an irontides or fluid machinations

[tropic ocean]

i‘d take blackwater over ceph

Ss is bae

[shut pasture]

well

that 2 are my first 445 pieces

for each slot

[lost horizon]

Blackwater is super accessible but

I guess if you never raid on that character you'd have to gamble

[tropic ocean]

if I could freely choose

Id probably use 3 ss

1 eb 1 bbi

1 incite the pack/swirling sands

with 3 op

[arctic walrus]

@shut pasture if you want the "best" combination at the moment it would be 3ss/1eb/ and a mix of anything from ttk, bbi, etc

[shut pasture]

@lost horizon eventually i'll have access to mythic raid on my rogue

but why not play Outlaw at that point

3 ace/2 follies will be

[lost horizon]

I mean with that logic just play outlaw now LOL

It's easier to gear than sin

[shut pasture]

well my current best outlaw gear

includes no ace, at all and a SNAKE EYES trait

[lone junco]

@shut pasture RIP 🐍

[timid cloud]

Did anyone lose about 300 DPS from their sims after this patch?

[shut pasture]

prolly the broken ring enchants

[shy dust]

Would inkpod coral be better for zaqual instead of font + coral

[lusty narwhal]

Not really, timings are fine

Do what you want really

[fresh notch]

Why does my haste say 24% (16% against current target)???

[tropic ocean]

font is superior to coral in zaqul @shy dust

as u can either use it for add

or punctures

and you don't really need the execute from inkpod in zaqul imo, since when u get him to 30% ull puncture zerg him down anyway

[shy dust]

Aight thanks for the help man

[dapper wraith]

if I have Zaqul helm from heroic, spymasters and gorak tul @445, should I bother gambling at all? I was thinking maybe ceph but it doesn't seem to sim better than spymaster

[cobalt pelican]

roll helm and get blackwater chest, probably

[crisp hollow]

are 8.2.5 parses irrelevant

i didnt read anything and just hopped on for raid

dont know if any major changes went through to invalidate them

[bronze wagon]

any reason why shimmerscale vest is simming so low for me? everyone says its bis https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cuEvpwHBRwKrWjTPaDEcaY

(yes i have loyal to the end allies marked in sim)

[drifting cloud]

because you have 0 np

[cobalt pelican]

i wouldn't really consider equal to spymasters as 1np really low

but generally it's safe to assume that when you hit 65, you'll get a bunch of 'free' haste from iris 3rd minor

and your haste weight will drop down making mastery more valuable in general

and 8.2.5 is the same as 8.2, i don't even think wcl will have a seperate tab

[bronze wagon]

i'm at 1,891 haste in raid currently

28%