Died intentionally
#assassination
bleak spoke
Idk most of the time when ppl die the overall loss to dps is pretty large if it’s not a tank or a healer
rigid mango
Obv, so you can't intentionally kill people most of the time
But you can do stupid shit like that w no real risk
bleak spoke
There are really few windows good enough to justify that
Maybe wings because they get more than just loyal
rigid mango
I mean, we shouldn't have any deaths on 2 phase anyways
Imagine loyal on jaina, sac tank and everyone gets loyal
Align that correctly woulda been great
bleak spoke
Yeah it’s pretty hard to die during the burn
rigid mango
Other than that, just random deaths were great
bleak spoke
But idk seems like most of the time when you have tank deaths it’s kinda over
rigid mango
Really? Most of the time if they get ressed fast it's fine
Aslong as it's not super poor timing it's fine
bleak spoke
If the check is super tight
rigid mango
I mean, we're talking 1sec of downtime from tank
bleak spoke
Like on queens if the bosses start humping each other and gain immune
rigid mango
He spammed remove buffs macro as a bm monk
rigid mango
We didn't really suffer that bad from tank deaths a lot of the time
bleak spoke
Yeh like they’re recoverable but feels like those rarely happen during windows
rigid mango
Ofc, but if you get it in any window it's still substantial
And regardless it borders the whatever sub 50dps loss that blackwater is for some people
bleak spoke
Yeh fair
rigid mango
For sure
Can't wait to get group of 27 shamans in hc with loyal dying every 15 sec to ankh
Perma uptime or iirc the stat increase stacks so you can just have nuts vend window
1 day I'll make it happen
cosmic pier
when grinding blood, are epics worth the time for the honor they give outside of daily? feels like they take too long for what they give
hidden bay
get a 5 man group and grind normal bgs
marble hemlock
and use the guild-flags for extra honor 😛
shut garnet
how much extra honor do guild flags give per bg
dark crag
A lot
marble hemlock
the epic one gives 15%
lasts 10min, or until its destroyed
so if youre just defending a spot, you can even drop it before the BG finishes, or just drop it as you win/lose so you atleast get 15% on the win/lose extra-honor
empty ravine
wow i actually didnt realize the guild banner gave bonus honor
atomic saddle
Is it worth to keep dots up on both bosses at court mythic despite traveltime?
sour wasp
i'm inspecting my trash guild and nobody has benthic boots
on mythic night
should i leave now or mid raid?
empty ravine
if you have ss traits and subterfuge talent, try to apply garrote to as many diff targets as you can
then just apply dots when they near, other than that nothing really
strange python
@sour wasp mid raid leaving are do only people with a little penis
sour wasp
is this google translate
tropic ocean
@atomic saddle usually you use step for that
sour wasp
i mean they must be trolling being so deep into prog and no benthic
tropic ocean
whats deep
royal lantern
''yeha but rng! i never got a piece with a socket!!!''
aka: bought 4 bethnic pieces, didnt get a socket one, never did it again
sour wasp
@tropic ocean on ashvane is fairly deep imo but i might be eating shit, we need damage lol
rigid sonnet
might be a nibblet question but is it k to just not use crippling poison if u don't need/want the slow? or does the crippling poison also help with gett the energy gain going on dotted targets?
rigid mango
You're free to get rid of it
tropic ocean
@sour wasp idk ur raid dps but ashvane is quite easy now killed it yesterday on alt
and we had like 150k less raid dps than I had on main in first kill 😄
bright tusk
Bros, where in opener do you put "Concentrated Flame" if you have it chosen?
rigid mango
replace clf with it
rigid mango
Aka after the MA window
bright tusk
shiet I'm using subterfuge
rigid mango
Well, after that window then
severe sedge
Neris wavebinders with physical to all nearby alot worse than the frost ones?
rigid mango
yep
rigid mango
No
royal lantern
eh, 5pulls in, im trying out stuff right now
rigid mango
Odds are you go outlaw or you do boss damage
royal lantern
hmmm
rigid mango
if you need add damage SUPER hard, sin is good
but it sacrifices near all boss damage
royal lantern
does boss dmg mean
rigid mango
for that
rigid mango
Depends how badly
Just fok
Imo
I'd just go super standard ST build and put 2 ruptures out or smth
royal lantern
i just thought, when im spending quite some time spamming FoK anyway, i can sacrifce that 1xNP and use EB too do a bit more dmg with it 🤷
but yeha, like i said, 6pulls in now, gotta figure out what we need first
arctic walrus
are your adds dying relatively in line with new spawns
dark crag
I mean you get 4 targets almost all fight until 40% then starts the cluster F of adds
rigid mango
That's such a bad idea for prog tho luhmi
Odds are you've got more than enough add damage
If they die on respawn timer that's optimal
royal lantern
eh, right now its more like
rigid mango
Stick to boss damage, see what others change first
royal lantern
50%of the raid has 70-80%add dmg
rigid mango
only change if something needs changing DRASTICALLY
dark crag
My first kill was as sub because the others all went maximum pad
2nd in boss dps right behind a 65 neck bis gear warri with haste heavy sub stuff
430 azerite
rigid mango
ez pez sub slaps
if you need boss damage just go sub
The one fight sub has some use 
dark crag
rigid mango
I respect the hussle
dark crag
My sub spec is a meme in my raid because it guarantees a kill soon if i do it
royal lantern
w8, is it possible too 2tank the boss with 2monks
and 1tank is a monk that is using statue?
dark crag
Yes
rigid mango
You can 2 tank it, but 3tank is just so much easier
it's not even funny how much simpler it is
dark crag
Yeah 3 tank is easy, if only a few have 65 neck you won't need to go 2 tank
royal lantern
4min/wave 7 boss needs too be a 40% right?
strange python
Is there a quick reference for how many mobs you use fok on based on how many eb you have? I can run 1, 2, or 3 but can't remember when it's a dps loss. I've been running 3 ss, 1 eb.
rigid mango
Fok at 2t+
With any number of EB
If you have a prio target, mut at 0-2, fok at 3 and finish at 4+
To be more CP effective
strange python
You fok with just 2 targets with 1 eb trait if there is no specific priority?
rigid mango
Yep
marble hemlock
Dont miss the Assa talk on finalboss in a few minutes 🙂
restive orchid
I clicked the ravenhold link to see spec guide and all, but it says invalid. Does anyone have a working link?
young portal
what essences would you recommend for delirium's on Zaq?
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
@young portal mythic?
young portal
@rigid mango yeah
rigid mango
Blood + vision + lucid
young portal
only have rank 2 vision, would that be sufficient?
arctic walrus
yes
arctic walrus
I killed it with rank 1
rigid mango
Vel is a tryhard
young portal
fair enough and last question, I did sim this prior to raid. Using those essences is a ~4k dps loss for a patchwerk sim, does that sound about right? Should I worry about general dps being lower through the fight
steep obsidian
you spend a lot of time standing around to push only at the timings you want
rigid mango
The fight isn't a fight good for damage
granite rampart
say that to spriests
rigid mango
It's all about correct CD usage
arctic walrus
say that to allstars 
young portal
fair enough, I get the shit I need to do done in the realms but outside that I just feel sloppy af. So thats normal, cheers
young portal
Thought so, thanks again
vestal wren
@restive orchid the wowhead guide is more in detail
gleaming sluice
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
restive orchid
That was plenty thank you for the link! I know the basic rotations just didn’t know the variables
digital heron
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
What weopen enchants are the go to for raid? I’m assuming one force multiplier but unsure which to do for the offhand. I’m really low on mastery but lot of the guides say haste or Crit nav
rigid mango
The ones that sim the best 
strange python
I knew that answer was coming
rigid mango
So why ask the question? 
strange python
Let me re phrase that, what do you guys use?
rigid mango
The ones that sim the best for me.
strange python
So which ones sim best for you
I’m guessing your answer will be “the one that sims the best”
rigid mango
Do you really want me to answer that?
strange python
Yes
rigid mango
strange python
I can’t sin right now cuz armory hasn’t updated to my sin set still says that I’m outlaw. That’s why I’m asking
rigid mango
That one is my favourite
strange python
*sim
rigid mango
Use the simulationcraft addon
Copy paste the info into raidbots and pick and choose
And you don't have to rely on armory to update (:
rigid mango
Coulda just helped yourself, you know.
drifting cloud
well youre just wasting everyones time
the weapons enchants all sim super close to each other
strange python
Well I’m kinda just trolling now
drifting cloud
just depends on your other gear.
strange python
Or joking whichever
How am I wasting everyone’s time? You could have just ignored me lol
rigid mango
Trolling isn't appreciated in spec channels, please move on 
strange python
Trolling was the wrong word. I meant joking. I apologize
It was a stupid question I admit
Suppose I just wanted a quick answer. I’ll just sim
vital raptor
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
royal lantern
fuu and the eternal crusade with TTK
worldly ledge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8WMjeXqu3wNiutp5xufHQp
According to this I have to get as many haste as I can?
rigid mango
Yes, but use top gear when you get pieces to change
worldly ledge
I used it and this is my top gear
rigid mango
Dope, then that's good
worldly ledge
Thanks.
deft nymph
use top gear for gems too tbh
don't go regemming/reenchanting everything to haste based on stat weights
rigid mango
Gems, enchants, essences, etc
pliant apex
for anyone doing 2s in arena, what should be the opener, also can you guys offer general advice for arenas?
pallid trellis
!help
vernal fern
Has anyone figured it out on how to use the 5 sec dmg buff from BotE the most optimal way in AoE in m+ ? For example if I play with 3xEB, 2xTTK, 1xSS, during the BotE dmg window, should I just spam FoK and overcap CB, or try to throw some evenoms in there ? As opener I go 3x garrote, then 1 or 2 ruptures for energy regen before throwing the blood, but not sure what to use depending on pull size
rigid mango
Depends on what you want/need
If you need st/prio, you go for that
if you need aoe, you go for that
vernal fern
But if the pull is small, like 3-4 mobs, I think I get more values from casting evenoms than just spamming FoK right?
rigid mango
if there's a prio target, maybe
or if it all needs to die, just mongo foking might do more
vast forum
mongo foking is almost always the best situation for overall damage, so if there is no clear prio target, just mongo fok...
vernal fern
Alright thanks
marble hemlock
just depends on whether one fok does more damage than 1envenom
including all the echoes etc.
vast forum
should be the case on 3+ targets if you have high crit (which you should in m+ gear)
vernal fern
Yeah I dont really realize how much a FoK and EB do as damage with all the numbers everywhere, in opposite to evenom as I can clearly see how much dmg it does
broken obsidian
Wait you don't even envenom in aoe? you just spam fan of knives after you use garrotes and rupteres? or am I taking this all wrong
visual mesa
One fok does more dmg than one env+Elaborateplanning+extra poison dmg, right?
rigid mango
If you have no prio target and you're at 5+ targets
You ignore CP entirely and mongo fok
only spending CP to apply ruptures to keep up bleeds
arctic walrus
@marble hemlock nice talk today 
broken obsidian
oh ok thank you zina
vernal fern
But you only keep enough ruptures to have enough regen for spamming ? Like 4-5 ruptures and then full mongo spam FoK?
rigid mango
you go G G G Rup build rup and then mongo fok
marble hemlock
@arctic walrus ❤
the bote aoe is usually prepping bleeds, then bote, then 11x fok
vernal fern
This makes me want to try 3x EB and 3x SS to see how much it does with BotE but I dont have the pieces 😦
rigid mango
Nuts in aoe, for sure.
vernal fern
But I feel like running some TTK is always good to focus down emissaries during Bote window
untold current
Dont seee a pin for really for Inkpod usage sub 30% with coral. Do I wait for 29% or something to activate coral or is there a number of inkpod stacks that is optimal?>
rigid mango
Use coral with vend
arctic walrus
outlaw rogue with blue name asking a question in the sin channel
rigid mango
sour wasp
it's not even about the wrong channel, we just don't like outlaw players
icy ember
true nexus
tropic ocean
just go 2/2/2
thorn galleon
what setup do you guys use on raidbots for the queens court fight?
cobalt pelican
you don't, really
use patchwerk and common sense
2t light movement still assumes those two targets are hittable together after your light movement which isn't the reality
scenic saffron
did the finalboss assasination episode already happened ?
arctic walrus
Yes
viscid eagle
What the name ofd the waist benthic we want apart frm the aberration one ?
arctic walrus
Vim's scalecrusher clasp
viscid eagle
got some pearls to spend
drifting cloud
theres only 2 belts
viscid eagle
spent a assaninte amout of pearls more the 850
pearls still dont have all the pieces i want
viscid eagle
maybe not but i dont like to farm the pearls
forsure
i come back when i have dibbled the amount
drifting cloud
I think it took me around 1.2k iirc
slow mortar
got 430 shroud of mooring from zaqul, and i thought it would be better than my 445, cause DD > TTK, i was very wrong, and i wasted a coin
lusty narwhal
What was the 445?
rigid mango
445 is sivara helm
slow mortar
circlet of the enveloping leviathan
vestal wren
in case you want to watch the finalboss assassination talk the vod:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481986926
mortal basin
3 x Twist 2x Dose 1 x Nothing or 2 x Twist 3 x Dose 1 x Nothing?
mortal basin
Gotcha
winter moss
keen rose
worldly ledge
@deft nymph @rigid mango I did as u say, simmed with Top Gear and still wants ne to switch all gems and wpn enchants to haste.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sjER2KpqauB6fQafaSMKXY
robust river
436 to 440 is 11k DPS sim difference between those two. Holy moly.
shut garnet
gear in bfa be like
robust river
I'm still green here. My rogue is at like 406 :S
Did our first attempt at raid last night since we just started playing BFA. EP on Normal is super easy...
winter moss
russian dude be like:
bollebob be like:
i mean dont kid youself
and 3 450 azerites
vs 2 435 and one 445
8 sockets vs 5
shut garnet
anyone know who the highest simming assarogue is right now
i think he's the highest ive seen so far
robust river
Wait, do azerite traits scale on item level too?
shut garnet
of course they do
winter moss
that would be razqt
robust river
I did not know that haha
scarlet sequoia
nah mac im not anymore 😦
shut garnet
is he really that full bis
winter moss
scarlet sequoia
best geared is Seldom
winter moss
why 
solid nova
?
winter moss
i would not recommend askmrrobot to be honest
vestal wren
only thing amr has that simc does not is healer sims i guess.
on every other front simc is a better fit then amr, their quality was always quetionable
modest tendon
Is there much discussion on Swapping out ttk for dd for prio damage in m+? I
sudden ocean
No because it's genuinely agreed to be a terrible idea
modest tendon
It does more damage than ttk though
sudden ocean
@rigid mango do the spiel
modest tendon
I know the spiel
sudden ocean
but it has absolutely no utility outside of bosses, which make up a relatively small part of dungeons
utility is king
rigid mango
If you'd be looking for prio only, sure.
sudden ocean
I just can't see a situation where you'd need that much prio
even on high tyrannical
rigid mango
Indeed
It's just an atrociously bad trait for m+
Since it counteracts the general playstyle of sin in m+
sudden ocean
and if you need ST that hard you'd probably just run an outlaw anyway
rigid mango
I mean, if all you want is prio, outlaw does more outside of sin cd's
But yes, if all you'd be looking for is pure prio, dd'd be your choice.
But that also means you might aswell drop your eb's
tropic ocean
just go 2/2/2
vestal wren
go with the best of your traits you dont need specific traits like ttk to be good in m+
vestal wren
generic ones are also rly good
modest tendon
Ye I can go bbi
raven mica
Wait what’s the pieces generally used to go 2/2/2 in M+
Irontide has SS EB OP so I’m assuming that’s one of them.
modest tendon
Dungeons with small pack sizes I often find that most of my damage comes from garrote, I don’t feel like I would loose much, if any, overall to mutilate a high health mob while my garrottes are running
The raid has a shoulder and chest piece which have ss/eb, you just need a ttk/eb piece and ss/eb piece from rolling in the weekly chest
Iron tides can go ttk/eb also
raven mica
Oh yea blackwater is TTK SS chestpiece with OP
I use that chest for PvP how did I forget
rigid mango
Ttk is a good filler trait too
modest tendon
I would personally try to get 3 separate ss/eb pieces and then swap in ttk as needed though
rigid mango
It doesn't lose you anything unless you're pulling constant mongo fok
raven mica
Is there TTK/EB shoulders with OP on them?
rigid mango
Pistoleers?
raven mica
Fuck I might’ve scrapped those
modest tendon
Ttk does pay for itself I agree, you use it constantly throughout the dungeon, it’s just weakly tuned, that’s my reservation with it
raven mica
Those have ace/blitz on em right?
woeful hare
They dont have OP
raven mica
Cuz if it’s those shoulders I suppose I could item restore it
Idk why I have this urge to play assassination in keys buuut
woeful hare
They have blitz and Ace
modest tendon
How much crit does your assa set have?
raven mica
It’s just gonna be my outlaw set, so a buncha crit and vers
modest tendon
I wasn’t happy with my damage until I got over 40%
raven mica
Like 1400 crit I think
modest tendon
Crit is god with assa in m+, min max for it as much as you can
raven mica
It’s just gonna be a fun thing I do for 1 or 2 keys
modest tendon
It doesn’t matter then 😛
raven mica
Cuz I’ll always be the chadlaw
raven mica
I’m not gonna regem / re enchant for M+ as sin
modest tendon
You must have some crit/mastery lying around though, maybe even look through your item restoration for some
modest tendon
42% for me, 46% mastery 😛
raven mica
Nah all my shit is crazy high ilevel with sockets
455 gloves, 445 socketed bracers, 455 belt, 455 socketed coral
Shpeeglass would be nice though
steep obsidian
gems so expensive 😦
tropic ocean
such gold very investment
vestal wren
those jucy 20g/gem,
what did blizz think when they made those so hard to affort
winter moss
germ 
vestal wren
thanks mäc, fixed
shy axle
The aszhara trinket usage in the pins still the right way to do it? SO 5 sek before the pull + on cd with active bleeds?
vestal wren
10 sec or less of vendetta cooldown remaining (20 or less secs if you use coral too)
hidden bay
@rigid mango https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9eA9mj3FULVhqwrP8RBsh7 changed to maghar orc aswell and got 445 font 
now blackwater sims higher
rigid mango
How did u magically get 1k wtf
hidden bay
font was like 600 dps 
rigid mango
And also, told u so 
Oh, mythic font
That'll do it
Think you might be highest simming rogue world now?
hidden bay
na
rigid mango
@scarlet sequoia 
scarlet sequoia
i was 3rd before
hidden bay
missing sockets for that 
rigid mango
Highest I've seen in here atleast
scarlet sequoia
guess im 4th now
vestal wren
54k nice
robust river
I'm simming at about 24k boys. On my way to the top!
heavy trail
Not even in the 50k club 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5EcRPheZ2bMRzSJVoM63mb
robust river
I'd quit if I was you. Disgrace 😄
heavy trail
Neverlucky :x
shut pasture
can assa actually use folly
because I was watching a PoV of TD24
and rogue had "DIVERS FOLLY ACTIVE GAMERS" pop up
in assa spec
rigid mango
No
shut pasture
rigid mango
Unless you don't want to muti, then it's fine I suppose
winter moss
scarlet sequoia
it does look like he is assa at the start yes
winter moss
for the first 4 min yes
shut pasture
oh
winter moss
shut pasture
shut pasture
zandalari proccing during vendetta
arcane torrent for m+
dark iron dwarf for removal of bleeds
scarlet sequoia
playing zandalari as rogue 
royal lantern
undead is crappy too
royal lantern
just have a shaman
pliant snow
Hey Guys I have a question:
According Raidbots is the Ink Pot (450 with socket) better than Font (430 with socket) better the other is Coral.
Is it possible, that Raidbots isn't simming Font the right way?
pliant snow
But according to herodemage font should be better even when Dip is in 450
winter moss
sigh
do you have the gear herodamage sims have?
herodamage sims with a fixed set of gear
and patchwork 1t 5min
and herodmg is more like a guideline than a god sent answer to all questions regarding trinkets
pliant snow
2 dd 2 ttw 1 infusion 1 np rest is based around my stat weight
winter moss
unless the gear is exactly like that, without a single socket or rnd procc herodmg only functions as a guide line
winter moss
i just tells you what MIGHT be good for your spec
pliant snow
I got that, was just confued when i looked into logs from other assas
winter moss
yeah thats what sims are for, they should help you to determine what is good for your character
logs, prefabricated sims and so on only can give you a idea
steady owl
Is font good for m+? If I had to choose what would be the best combo for m+ between font, coral and spyglass?
winter moss
i tried it for a bit and liked it. kinda weird to use tho
winter moss
if in doubt i would spyglass font
shut garnet
damn didnt realise cursed lover was that good
steady owl
I’ll try I’m just worried the tank won’t let me restealth. So often an issue in pugs
shut garnet
for some reason i have a 450 i never even bothered simming 
pliant snow
I realy like coral, set it on the focus mob
Let him die and use it on an other low mob->a free stack and buff reset
robust river
Is there a guide/list anywhere of what mechanics feint/cloak work and don't work on? I'm finding them both pretty hit and miss in Eternal Palace on what they actually work on...
night vale
Not that I’ve seen, it’s usually something we have to test out. Sometimes blizzard flags that certain abilities can’t be immuned, so you press cloak and it doesn’t work and it’s confusing cause it’s magic dmg.
One of those annoying inconsistencies
robust river
Yeah it's super annoying. "I'll take this, I can cloak it" - NEvermind I'm dead.
wet ruin
about the hit or miss, its especially confusing when I cloaked first tentacle on za'qul but the second one hit me
timid cloud
Only thing I can think of that’s not cloakable is Gorganzola add puddles.
wet ruin
@winter moss there are 3 tentacles on mythic
wet ruin
I know 😄 , I am talking about the second one
timid cloud
Oh yeah & maybe uh, freeze from blue on Sivarra? But imagine not hitting Q-E the entire fight to begin with. 
wet ruin
its confusing cuz cloak worked on first one, but not on the second one
robust river
Ashvane you can't cloak to drop waterlogged. Apparently you can stop it applying with Cloak though which I didn't realise
Or atleast it didn't seem to work last night
timid cloud
They’re perm stacks on M, only damage is immuned during cloak.
winter moss
the probability that cloak just ran out is very high
wet ruin
yea, I though so, but it didn't
timid cloud
I’ve been the sacrificial lamb on Ash prog...big yikes
night vale
wait you guys sac a rogue?
winter moss
i mean. why would you use cloak for tentacles in the first place but okay. lets go that road. im not sure about the hit or miss part
tentacle dmg on zaq is shadow dunno about the application tho
robust river
Should I be running Iron Wire or Prey on the Weak in talents btw? I like having silence for stuff (mythic especially)
rigid mango
Iron wire
robust river
For everywhere?
rigid mango
Yep
night vale
only exception is i play prey on the weak for mythic azshara
as i have to stun hulk
its quite nice there
sudden ocean
HIT OR MISS
timid cloud
@night vale Yes, it was a very questionable strat for when 3rd tank died & you needed a soaker to eat bubbles but didn’t wanna give everyone x2 dots which is a death sentence for anyone but Fury & DH.
rigid mango
IB is nicer for you
wet ruin
@winter moss reason is not important, whats important is it works for one, but not for second
rigid mango
Wdym people to soak after 3rd tank 
That's the other tanks
Or a couple on self sustain classes like priests and boomies
night vale
@timid cloud ah, okay, i dont think we did it like that, bdk 3rd tank took a lot and when he was finished soaking we had good self sustain classes take a couple... we didnt need many more soaks after that 🙂
timid cloud
Not a fan of the questionable strat...some say my tank didn’t have null dynamo because he was lazy. Tfw you gotta play something bad for a sub-par strat. MonkaSsssssss
winter moss
still weird af tho @wet ruin
timid cloud
New guild tho. Like their strat. The glow up is real. 👍
night vale
wait? @wet ruin you are in proper pohnage?
wet ruin
yeah, why
night vale
oh just my friend recently got into that guild and he was talking about it last night 😛
Spudzindeath, hes an unholy dk
i was watching your prog last night
wet ruin
kinda not for the channel 😄
night vale
yep true!
wet ruin
anyways, there is the tentacle thing, @winter moss
shut garnet
is conflict and strife worth running in m+ as a second minor if its only r2?
shut garnet
and do u ever switch to pp for underrot etc
vestal wren
ye i mean even cheat death is unreliable on certain encounters
blizz does a lot to restrict rogue utility
rigid mango
Underrot only has the last dudes and slimes that are abberations
I personally wouldn't
unique sierra
I honestly don’t like purification protocol
I had it on my fury warrior and when I rerolled I didn’t even bother because I thought it was meh
tropic ocean
I mean this is sin channel
but pp is the best minor by far on fury warrior when it comes to dps
🤷
shut garnet
and a bit off topic to what i just asked, but how do you know when a trinket is good enough for m+
ive been playing around with inkpod instead of loaded dice for a bit now and it seems to consistently do 4-5-6% of my dmg most dungeons
is that 5/6% kinda the threshold for dps trinkets
winter moss
trial and error
dice isnt that good ngl
dont get me wrong its a good trinket, but there are better ones
tropic ocean
pp is a good minor and does nice dmg
thing with conflict and strife is just that it has such a good uptime
and basically buffs all your abilities
and gives dmg reduction as well
in most of my keys c&s has 90~95% uptime which is very big
shut garnet
its not really a farm you just wait 2 weeks at 1800 rating
winter moss
wanna know when i last did arenas?
shut garnet
ye but if it takes like
winter moss
wotlk 
glacial steppe
how many targets do I want to rupture in a medium sized pack (4-5 mobs)?
shut garnet
depends how much u want it
winter moss
true
but after the 50k grind a second pvp essence that i cant get easier on alts is just not worth it 
winter moss
did you lose 200k braincells in the progress
winter moss
then you are clearly not playing alliance
glacial steppe
obviously not LUL
sudden ocean
3
rigid mango
I did it in 3-4 days too
winter moss
point: made. hotel: trivago
sudden ocean
oh
rigid mango
🤷
sudden ocean
Zine
rigid mango
Suh
sudden ocean
Queens court 🛌
If someone told me I was just gonna have to do the fight from Freehold but with more mechanics
frozen karma
rigid mango
@sudden ocean p much
tropic ocean
stuck knoll
Top quality fight really it’s can your spriest resist dotting the last spark
The fight
undone pasture
But its a dps gain on st i swear xdd
tropic ocean
Cant stop dps need insanity
sudden ocean
QC on Sin is ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ dont @ me
same rotation 3 times, you multidot like a monkey then collect your useless chestpiece
shy axle
can`t find if it was answered this morning. Regarding azshara trinket usage, pins still correct? Means 5 sec prepull + on cd with bleeds up?
shut garnet
yes
shy axle
thanks pal
verbal knot
So, I noticed my parses on Queens Court aren't super great. Heroic, I mean, I haven't gotten to Mythic yet. On most fights I'm in 90+ %, so do we multi dot on QC? I can't figure out where people are getting the extra DPS from
I feel like -maybe- I'm not playing optimally during repeat performance and that might be it
vast forum
try to use kick/sprint/shadowstep/evasion/cloak as off-global abilities during repeat performance if you're about to cast 2 muts in a row
rancid bobcat
it's mainly multidotting when you can
especially on orbs
the fight on heroic is super short at this point because of other multitarget classes
kick and evasion are fine but i would save cloak/sprint/step to keep uptime/bleeds up on the other boss/orbs instead of using them for performance
you can use detection if you don't have kick up
but even with 2 target bleeds up, if you've dumped enough energy, you can just eat the silence
rigid mango
3 DD
winter gale
Ty ty
winter gale
And do u have any tips for that fight? This will be my 1st time on it.
cloud sandal
seems really unlikely
cloud sandal
lol
lost horizon
Which is why socketed offhands are really good, even if lower ilvl
pliant apex
ss is no longer preffered for pve/raiding is it
and hence MASTER assasin better than subterfuge?
was seeing hero damage, ss isnt even top 5
rigid mango
SS is preferd for m+, for sure
pliant apex
ahh and undulating tides, nothing personal much better than ss right? for raids
rigid mango
Not UT
pliant apex
since thats what i got with my residium
rigid mango
UT is garbage
pliant apex
ohh
rigid mango
Bait trait
pliant apex
no 3 on hero damage??
deft nymph
you can't get UT from residuum :p
undulating tides is decent if you never take dmg
but losing the proc for 45 sec a time or two kills it
pliant apex
hmm
well if i have nothing personal on head and chest, thats good enough right
if im not into srs mythic raiding
tom ill buy shoulders with residium
deft nymph
just topgear yoself
pliant apex
how
deft nymph
get simc addon for wow, log into your rogue and type /simc
copy that wall of text
paste it into https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
start clicking traits/gear/etc you want to test
sim it up
rigid mango
If you're unsure what's the biggest upgrade azerite wise, do a droptimizer sim
runic terrace
Hey guys. Does anyone know why I get out of stealth at the beginning of the fight? Is it an essence or an item that causes this?
rigid mango
Are you on orgozoa?
rigid mango
Room's bugged, that's why
runic terrace
lol
rigid mango
Try stealthing on pull
runic terrace
damn you blizz^^
rigid mango
Worked fine for me
rigid mango
bleak aspen
Hey ! How u play with Hidden Blades and Echoes blade pls? ^^
bleak aspen
even with 3 EB?
rigid mango
Yep
slow quartz
Final Boss link for those who haven't seen it yet: https://youtu.be/w8iHLoFzN7M
rigid mango
Nova 
bleak spoke
All of our favorite people talking Pog
rigid mango
The dude who runs it
tropic ocean
podcast is brilliant
vernal fern
Yo guys I just had an issue on KR that I already got on other void weeks. When I stay in back of boss room to kill minons and vanish
after i vanish all the mobs around me randly go to my team and we wipe
just happened few mins ago
rigid mango
Sounds like you had hots on you
This isn't sin specific though, more of a #wow-general question
vernal fern
yeah mb
cuz yeah I feel like having Hots would be the only reason but no way I had any hots on me I was out of combat and full hp for more than 30 secs
vestal wren
the amount of pooling conditions in apl is rather low
i think we have no pooling condition for tb
tropic ocean
i've been playing with it a lot
and the results are very very minor
I try to have somewhat energy before tb comes off cd but not actively pooling it super hard
when I checked the ability log from sim it also refreshs during tb so I didn't bother anymore to min max everything super good
vestal wren
tb is used kinda on cd
so there is no pooling, not sure if i checked pooling, it likely was no win if i did
kinda convinient to have it as "on cd" too
stiff vortex
Do you use arcane Explosion on cd when Low on Energie ?
rigid mango
What?
stiff vortex
The bloodelf racial
rigid mango
Yeah, you can use AT on low energy if you have nothing better to do
stiff vortex
Kk thx 😊
primal zodiac
so quick question: pins say weapon enchants should be 2 highest simming stats, wowhead guide says force mult. on mainhand. im simming right now but is it maybe content related to whats best?
rigid mango
The ones that sim the best
Stick your stuff in there, pick the enchants
See what it tells you and pick accordingly
primal zodiac
yeah thats what im doing rn, in queue, but thanks 🙂
desert vault
Is 35k overall on sub 15 siege decent or not really?
rigid mango
Sub 40k is generally meh
But siege being probably one of if not the worst sin key + tyr might lower that enough
desert vault
I must be doing something wrong. I have never seen anyone do above 40k. But I just pug like 13 to 15s is it
Just tank not pulling enough I guess. I dunno. I dont know last time I wasn't top dps in key so at least there is that
cloud lichen
hi guys, i'm having problem with my dps. I just switched to master assassin and I can't get a good dps. I think one of my biggest problem is the uptime of the dot. Can that change that much the dps? In addiiton I saw that i should do more damage of double dose according to the sim, can someone explain me how to improve that please? https://it.warcraftlogs.com/reports/492qdHjwvkD83MbQ/
shadow agate
Thoughts on using Blood of the Enemy in + with a 3xEB build + HB as the last talent. Focusing Iris always sims way higher, but feels like some crazy burst potential.
scarlet sequoia
@cloud lichen can you link it in english
tropic ocean
@desert vault in these low hp packs dont bother dotting
dot the 1-2 big mobs
and mongo fok
or beam
cloud lichen
@scarlet sequoia how can i do that?
arctic walrus
You need to get more comfortable lining your cds up, vend/font/coral
cloud lichen
@scarlet sequoia https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/492qdHjwvkD83MbQ should be now
arctic walrus
You also seem to have very long instances of no damage, not sure why
scarlet sequoia
i assume youre icerain
your opener is wrong, you can check the guide for that i think
cloud lichen
i do mutile rapture mutile
shut garnet
whats a respectable amount of dps out of what youre simming that you should do
is doing like 5% less acceptable
cloud lichen
a part from that, do u have any other advise? why my double dose dmg is so low?
cloud lichen
either i was doing coral
or i was in during the bubble phase and i couldnt reach the boss
which of course i assume is wrong, but i am not able to find the right position
but i really do not get why my double dose damage is that low
i always mutile x2 after envenom
cobalt pelican
you're only playing 2dd and one of them is on a 415 piece
why would you expect it to be any higher than it is
on your longest pull you just have tons of small mistakes really, garrote falls 3x before 4 minutes, there's a big break between tbs at 1:20 to 2:10, your opener is significantly wrong, high downtime etc
wrong potions being used etc etc
and even when you're using the wrong potion you desynced it from your cooldowns for some reason, i guess because lust was soon but realistically if you have enough foresight to know lust is soon you have enough foresight to not vendetta since you won't be losing a cast
vast forum
tbh some guilds ask people to use pots as a separate dps CD on ashvane prog
cobalt pelican
kinda fine for unbridled during one of the shields if you really need it, using an agility pot 5 seconds after vend fades just seems like a straight mistake though
vast forum
o yea
i didn't check the log, was just commenting on your comment
using agi pot outside of CDs is a waste
spare flame
Whats a reasonable % to set undulating tides too or is it just flat out not worth using ever?
cobalt pelican
depends heavily on the fight, you'd need to use logs as a reference
lament hedge
Gambling on my first 450 piece tomorrow, I have 450 engi helm (DD,gizmo), 435 Gorak Tul (DD/BBI) and 435 Spymaster chest (DD/NP). Is gambling on chest the right choice?
arctic walrus
plug your gear into droptimizer and check
bleak spoke
Also depends on if you raid
lament hedge
Yeah, raiding primarily
Completely overlooked the option on droptimizer... never saw it. Thought it was for raid drops only. Thanks!
wide hedge
well if you raid mythic - behemoth chest should be the one for you (i think it was behemoth with DD + Loyal)
if you can get it easily, then I would say you should try going for Gorak Tuls
sterile ocean
i got a question nothing to do with sims but is there a haste cap for rogues?
im at 19% and i got 2 pieces with alot more haste then my other 2 pieces and it still shows 19%
pseudo hamlet
@sterile ocean Sim yourself, that's the best answer. 🙂
@sterile ocean longer answer: it really depends on your gear/essences/probably even talents. Right now I've got about ~25% haste and it's the lowest on my stat weight(crit>mastery>vers>haste).
heavy trail
There is no cap im at 27% and still simming highest..
wide hedge
Haste Sims the Second best for me - so as you can See, it varies...
It' okay to ask - but it's best to sim yourself
heavy trail
best way is to sim topgear with different gems etc, stat weights may vary just by changing one gem 😄
winter gale
On Court mythic I should always try to put rup/bleed on the other guy too?
Not just focusing one.
robust river
Ass opener. Should you be Garrotte out of stealth or Multilate? I usually Garrotte > Multilate > Rupture > Coral > Pool Energy > Vendetta burst
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
They're in there^
robust river
Ah will have a look
Ah OK. So if MA over Subjugate changes the opener not the DD stacks or anything. Thanks
QUick follow up. Vendetta increased damage, does that apply to all damage sources for example essences/trinkets or just melee/abilites?
rigid mango
Vendetta, toxic blade and master assassin are all whitelisted to rogue abilities only
robust river
Ah that sucks, so no point (if you were running it) to fit crucible of flame essence or anything in there unless you've nothing else to do.
distant lava
yep
robust river
Ok. Final question of the day. Auto attack timers. Do any rogue abilities reset/cancel it now-a-days or has all of that been removed?
You used (vanilla I think) to have to time your sinister strikers just after your AA for max damage. Any of that exist now?
distant lava
not as far as I know
cloud lichen
Hi everyone. Got a quesiton. My purpose is always to refresh garrote and rapture because it is an actual dps increse instead of letting them fall off and re apply, right? In additin, isnt it the opener mutile rapture mutile garrote essence then vendetta toxic vanish env mut env mut ?
robust river
Garrote/Rupture refresh when pandemic timer is due unless empowered (SS trait) then you want the full duration to go and be refreshed right after.
Thats my understanding
heavy trail
With refreshing, i hope you mean pandemic refreshing 😉
distant lava
refreshing the dots in pandemic is basically the same as reapplying them after they drop value wise
and you don't lose the dmg and regen from it
robust river
But you lose the empowered damage if you refresh in Pandemic if I'm not mistkane
mistaken*
To clarify I'm saying refresh them while they're still up in the pandemic window unless empowered.
distant lava
yeah if you run SS you wait for it to end before putting another garrote
robust river
Nighstalker too if you empowered rupture with it but I don't think anyone runs it.
strong folio
T 20 set bonus with nightstalker build was so good 
distant lava
For coral and font its in the pins
winter moss
also check #tc-updates
desert vault
Hmm, feels like a decent 3x SS/EB week ... fort/teeming
simple rivet
two helm rolls, iron tide for outlaw and loa for sin
crystal storm
So I know in the guide and pretty much everywhere else the answer to holding toxic blade vs using it on CD the answer is always use on CD but I had a specific question. do we hold in any instance ever? For example would we use it even though we will be switching off the mob in about 1 second? that seems like a waste to me.
solid nova
switching off the mob in about 1 second? - Yes you'd not use it then, thats a total waste
If you're not going to get any value out of it due to mechanics/add swapping/phase changes etc, there there's not any reason why you'd use it then as you'll be wasting a cast
lament leaf
Sup guys, probably this question has been asked many times, but i cant find an answer in the guides
actually im running for M+, 3 EB and 3 SS
but i feel im lacking too much dmg in boss fights
crystal storm
@solid nova is there a certain amount of time it would have to be active to use it and not get the full duration?
tropic ocean
@lament leaf can be stats
use on use trinket
or maybe playstyle has some issues as well
solid nova
Full duration? Tooltip has that timer.
lament leaf
im running with spyglass and dice
i also have phial, but dungeon slice simms better the first two
but still are those traits the way to go? or it changes depending on forti or tyranical weeks?
brittle birch
is one TTK mandatory for m+? i have 3x echoing and 3x SS, i can lose one of either for a TTK but i'd have to use a 415 azerite piece
rigid mango
No, it's not
It's one of the best traits for sure, but you'll do fine with a 3 ss base, don't particularly like the 3 eb though.
brittle birch
i have a really weird setup lol, I don't have many high TTK pieces. i think i could run something like 3x SS 2x NP and some other random shit but I thought I heard NP was bad in m+
modest tendon
I only take 3eb into a few dungeons, notably shrine, 3ss is good in every situation though
Iv been using 3ss, 2eb, 1ttk this week
modest tendon
Big boy pulls
modest tendon
Nah, ttk for ml because of the robots
brittle birch
i don't have a piece yet with both SS and TTK except for the benthic chest so fuck me ig 😂
rigid mango
Although I have a really hard time justifying 3 eb anywhere
I'd rather run 1 ttk in ml if at all
brittle birch
hell it might be worth it to upgrade my benthic chest to 415 🤔
since it has ttk and ss and that's the best i got atm
rigid mango
Benthic costs an absolutely stupid amount to upgrade tho
brittle birch
yeah we're doing hc tonight and i deadass might roll on behemoth
modest tendon
Pearls better spent on feet/wrists/waist, etc
rigid mango
I don't see why you wouldn't
brittle birch
i just started gearing my rogue last week, haven't gone to a heroic run yet
so i'm trying to get all my shit together with my ragtag azerite pieces
rough veldt
ive backread so much from this chat and everything i know about rogue seems wrong, as far as mythic + goes since ive been pushing high keys. im at work so the only thing i have now is a log from last night with my stats "Crit: 1,541 Haste: 1,704 Mastery:720 Versatility: 325"
first thing first, yall gonna say wayyyyy too much haste, so what should i do instead with that to start?
regardless of my build and talents, traits, haste that high is a no no for +s correct?
rigid mango
I don't know what those are % wise
rough veldt
im gonna say if i can remember is close to 23%
rigid mango
Your haste is 23%?
rough veldt
around that
rigid mango
That's an obscene amount
rough veldt
yikes. and thats with all my gems and socket with crit already. so its all gear that adds that.
is that wayy to much even for raid ST?
rigid mango
There's no way too much, raid wise
rough veldt
ok. back to +s though, what should i do
rigid mango
And not really for m+ either, just haste
Haste is bad.
Get better gear, I suppose?
rough veldt
what stat do i want
strange python
I think i run like 8% in m+
rigid mango
Crit and mastery
Vers being just behind mast
I run like, 40% ish crit, 50% mastery?
And I'd like to cut my crit a bit and try 60% mastery
rough veldt
oh here we go my stats are "31.1%Crit/25.1%Haste/30.6%Mastery
soo cut my haste and double my mast?
rough veldt
can i ask to see your gear and what end dps/damage you do usually around end keys of 15+ or 14s if ever?
or what is good to base of off
rigid mango
My gear is far from optimal
If you want to check someone's gear I'll link nutty in one sec
lost horizon
Overall damage fluctuates pretty heavily with dungeon/affixes
And how your group pulls
rough veldt
for the sake of our topic lets use the week of affixs that just ended
rough veldt
ok ill check that one
rigid mango
Generally, in low end dungeons about 45k, in higher end ones 50-55k
depends on tank, pulls, etc
rough veldt
So is the best build 3ss, 2eb, 1ttk and that would give the best dps/damage output? And any other build would be ok or decent but less than
rigid mango
That would probably give you some of the best damage output, yeah.
Granted your tank doesn't fuck you over
rigid mango
You peak at 3-5 target
Outlaw should generally be out dps'd or on similar levels
There's a lot of factors though, hard to say.
rough veldt
That build is all around 2/2/2. What is the azerite build in +s for MA? And is that even valuable or good or not even
rough veldt
So ma in +s is a no no no matter what
rough veldt
Yikes
Whats boss damage dps with that build on a tyran week look like? Ish if u would say
15 key if that matters
desert vault
Maybe 35k ... I think
rough veldt
Ok hmmm
desert vault
But then again I can never do these 45k overall numbers
But I don't have bote so maybe that makes a big difference
verbal knot
What is bote
rigid mango
blood
trail scarab
is assassination viable in m+ now?
teal stratus
It always was
rigid mango
Has always, probably will always
trail scarab
im running with a group where we are usually 2 rogues so i was just thinking since we are both outlaw we are lacking some ST usually, maybe it would be a good idea for me to go assa?
rigid mango
Assa will normally land somewhere close to outlaw in boss damage
Assa does a bit higher boss damage on fort weeks though
trail scarab
yea, i see the stat prio is somewhat the same for aoe for the both specs if i dont remember wrong, so if i happend to get some daggers in the future i'll give it ago :)
how is it on aoe tho with assa? i saw some vids of it on utube and it doesnt seem that far behind outlaw?
granite rampart
its very possible for assa to lose to outlaw in single target on tyrannical weeks for sure since aoe stat prio is very different than single target stat prio + however many EB you run subtracts from your single target. you probably shouldnt go assa just to gain single target.
the aoe is very competitive with outlaw tho
smoky oxide
Outlaw AOE is certainly easier. For my part I have a really hard time getting the same numbers with Assassination. I know it's possible, but I'm a scrub.
trail scarab
im not really able to grasp this outlaw spec, not gonna lie. i hit 432 ilvl yesterday and i have horrible overall compared to my other rogue friend
i like assa alot more
granite rampart
the aoe on packs that have a good amount of hp assa will be very competitive with outlaw. where outlaw clearly beats assa in aoe is when packs have very low time to kill. such as saurids in atal. or maggots in waycrest
strange python
is is better to use life Force 3 or iris 3 for m+ as a major
lament leaf
blood of the enemy is the way to go isnt it?
granite rampart
iris will give you more overall damage, but if you have it blood of the enemy r3 is the way to go
rough veldt
i know parse in raids tell a lot, but do parse in +s matter or not accurate or anything?
strange python
man, i only have blood rank 1, dont have the time to sit here and farm all 3 ranks atm
smoky oxide
I find Blood just easier to work with too. Having to stop and cast Iris, plus hoping everything is packed/lined up for it can be really RNG.
granite rampart
blood is also just really versatile. clf doesnt give a whole lot in aoe, iris doesnt give a whole lot in single target. blood is effective in any situation.
rigid mango
Parses in m+ are irrelevant
rough veldt
if you sim Dungeon Slice (BETA) with the 3ss 2eb and ttk, what does the sim come out to?
rigid mango
Dslice is very mediocre for sin
rough veldt
i cant try cause i dont have those traits
rough veldt
oh ok
rigid mango
Since the valuathing of things aren't as simple and linear as stuff like per say, outlaw
You're generally going to be fine with any build that has any mix of eb/ttk/ss
rough veldt
what sim do we use if anything or do we just know it ourselves given the azerite we use
rigid mango
However this season I don't see the reasoning for more than 2 eb, if even that
I never sim for m+ 
rough veldt
alrighty
dusty quiver
What azerite pieces do people normally use for sin?
rigid mango
However I understand what I need and when I have questions I have direct lines to some of the best rogues 
What azerite pieces for what, raiding or m+?
rough veldt
thanks for the help bud.
rigid mango
So if you generally have any questions, you should get good answers here
dusty quiver
Just raiding
rigid mango
zaq helm + goraks + blackwater/cepha is BiS
Other piece such as loa helm and tentacle laced/orgozoa shoulders are also very good, just not BiS
dusty quiver
Is loa helm azerite vendor?
dusty quiver
Okay awesome, thanks
strange python
what trinkets do you guys use if you play assassination in m+
Or what do you like
strange python
noice, I also use dice and cyclo i used to have a plumage.
desert vault
I've been messing with Font on tyra weeks, not terrible if the tank stops to give time
been doing coral+spyglass on fortified, don't have anything else really still have yet to even see a heroic Inkpod
strange python
I need an inkpod
desert vault
I might trying dice+spyglass and 3x EB, 3x SS this week for a little fun
strange python
And i do not have font lol
desert vault
Right
rigid mango
It's good if you get really good uses off with near perfect killing
but that has to be synced quite well
desert vault
Wonder if just dice+spyglass would be better on fort