🤔
#assassination
rigid mango
vast forum
3eb best pad
cosmic pier
cos i have 2200 crit
rigid mango
unless fh and ml
cosmic pier
big fort week damage
rigid mango
That doesn't justify 3 eb though 
cosmic pier
id run run 3 EB 3SS if i had it
rigid mango
arctic walrus
vast forum
3eb 3ss as night elf bis
rigid mango
cosmic pier
with big crit and exsang boos damage is still good
vast forum
exsg
cosmic pier
and you can do giga trash dmage and not care about chain pulling
rigid mango
The unholy fuck am I reading
cosmic pier
and exsang on trash allow you to focus damage 2 adds
arctic walrus
This is hard to read
vast forum
don't diss my 3eb 3ss 😡
rigid mango
I'd play 3 eb ss in 2 keys and those 2 keys only
cobalt pelican
pls do not bully other gamers feelies
all builds are equally viable even 3sob 3dd
rigid mango
I feel like dd is pretty good
rigid mango
wdym vend is bad
distant lava
it's like
90% of the reason I don't play sin in keys
cause the cd
feels horrible to use
distant lava
how does disptach feel bad
rigid mango
your spec presses the most abhorrent button this entire class has
distant lava
means you have good buffs
I'd argue vendetta in a 10 mob pack
is worse than dispatch
rigid mango
Yeah but vendetta >>>>>>>>>>> dispatch if 4-5t or lower
If higher than that you think I press anything but fok?
cosmic pier
but for some big adds its nice
rigid mango
cosmic pier
the actual worse thing about sin in dungeons is having to hold vanish for skips
and no gouge
rigid mango
Finishers are supposed to be feel good and be impactful imo
and dispatch does neither, far from it
cosmic pier
i have gear for both so I dont mind swapping
guild died so at least i dont have to reforge all week
cobalt pelican
i'd play more outlaw if it didn't so happen that all my outlaw gear is also my raid gear somehow
vendetta is a good button it's just hard to feel good about pressing it outside boss fights
it pretty much always feels wasteful even though it never really is
kinda like clf in dungon
(though that's probably never being played ever)
unique sierra
CLF in KR is kind of nutty for prio honestly. Things like brute and shit and bosses. You just miss the hell pad lol
fading stag
Can someone help me with the Queen's Court fight?
serene surge
Are there any races in particular for horde that excel for Rogues? Either spec that is.
arctic walrus
With?
"excel" at" is only a difference of ~100 dps so you're not gonna break any records by changing races
fading stag
Just with doing more damage on the fight, I'm doing like 7k less than with others
serene surge
Other than Belf for m+ I was wondering if any race give any particular advantage to either utility or damage, I havent played horde for ages, I am not updated at all.
tropic ocean
@serene surge blood elf is good for the purge in m+
bleak spoke
Belf is best on horde
tropic ocean
each race has it small up and down but utility wise personally nothing beats belf for me
maybe nightelf if alliance was deded
bleak spoke
If I were ally I’d be nelf or velf for sure
serene surge
Alright, thanks 😄
arctic walrus
Hero damage or bloodmallet had a chart you can check
placid kindle
any1 knows if mechagon ring combo(hit from behind-haste) procs on behemoth
shy dust
It can if you hit it from the side
placid kindle
aighty, thanks
bronze kelp
question on zaqul: does pre cloaking the fear do dmg to the raid ?
proven talon
yes
if u get targeted it insta pops
not sure why you'd do that unless you're in late p4 tho
like real late
and you're not already using to cloak off stacks to get more delirium uptime
stuck knoll
Also if you’re not in for whatever reason and using cloak defensively avoid pre cloaking maniac dread cuz 1 you don’t need to and 2 it doesn’t spawn the eye if it targets you
pseudo hamlet
Anyone has raidbot premium? 🤔
pale cave
Unbridled on opener with agility on second pot, or both unbridled?
rigid mango
Both unbrid
fleet whale
bracers that summon the pufferfish and has a socket are fine right? or do i need to go for the frost damage one
balmy stump
Anyone here play sin for m Orgozoa?
arctic walrus
Very minimal upgrade if you get frost. However puffer loses value if things move out, so that's always a risk
fleet whale
thing is i got fathom's with a socket... on my very first bracer roll
balmy stump
Can you tell me what Azerite/traits/trinkets you take? And do you primarily focus on boss or adds? My guild’s strategy is to phase before the 7th arcing current comes out. I have pretty much every good current trinket
@pale cave
pale cave
i do both boss and adds, I don't have Font yet. DD / NP / Coral + Ink
balmy stump
So just cleaving with fan of knives to build Cp?
latent gazelle
Wouldn’t you be loosing dps with DD traits if you Fok. Even if you are hitting adds?
pale cave
I dont do much Fan
by the time I garotte all the adds and IRIS them all, theyre about dead adding everyone else on them
we destroy the adds
pale cave
wait are we talking Mythic EP ? Cos we're just starting Mythic EP, so unless you mean Heroic, I'm sure things are very different
fleet whale
Heroic Orgo i would argue is the easiest boss on heroic, i haven't done mythic but looking at Kill rates, Orgo is one of the toughest
pale cave
agreed it's super ez
fleet whale
we don't even kill any adds in the second phase, we just nuke the boss
arctic walrus
I mean what do you need damage wise
If your intent is to pad, then go eb/sob build
if you need boss damage, just go regular st build
balmy stump
Mythic
hushed arrow
You can Tricks, shadowstep, distract, disorient, what else between mutilates @turbid osprey
sprint, refresh garrote etc
polar cape
hushed arrow
kick, feint etc
wet ruin
what expansion are you palying in?
turbid osprey
holy shit
how did i not think of any of that
😮
any tricks to staying in delerium other than having leech and feinting aoe?
our spriest is gone and im in
vast forum
leeching poison is enough if you don't have other people cleave you
deft nymph
yeah just don't be down there with fire mages
and make sure the shadowpriests are careful with their tab dotting
verbal knot
Grits!
hushed arrow
Grats man damn
verbal knot
oh wait how do you get your stats listed there, is that a WA?
verbal knot
Thanks!
obtuse fjord
top trinket aoe?
rigid mango
Coral + spyglass probs
grave delta
whats the breakpoint on using fan ST with hidden fans? just full 20 or?
i assume its only full stacks
lost horizon
Yeah but you shouldn't be using that talent if you're trying to optimize
If you're messing with it all power to ya
grave delta
well yeah. just playing around with it in dungs
lost horizon
Yeah, it's really not worth
But if you get full stack and boss is almost dead
Just save for next pack
lost horizon
Yeah it's unfortunate, it sounds great on paper cause it works with our builder and EB makes our builder the main source of AoE
But it just falls short in practice
grave delta
even accounting for natural downtime? thats unfortunate 😦 woulda been fun
still feels good when ya hit the bote crit and a full stack xD
lost horizon
Yeah it's pretty bad, if it was a usable cooldown that just buffed your next FoK it might be worth
Cause you could consistently line up with big pulls and bote and shit
gentle osprey
what should i use as my 2nd minor slot?
raven mica
gentle osprey
it doesnt let me do the 2nd minor cos i havent unlocked it yet 🙂
lost horizon
If you adjust your neck to 65 in the simC string you can sim it
arctic walrus
Then you change your neck level in your simc string (:
lost horizon
Or just sim it when you hit 65
Or just look at logs and see what people are doing
If you're just trying to get an idea of good options that is
raven mica
~~This is where Bloodmallet/Herodamage comes in ~~
gentle osprey
just a baseline
gentle osprey
ok thank you 🙂
arctic walrus
raven mica
thats why I put it so low
grave delta
where are people standing on bote vs pp vs iris for sin rn?
dont have pp rank 3 but bote feels way better than iris so far?
raven mica
for M+?
deft nymph
iris feels awful
deft nymph
major i mean
rigid mango
Sin has enough awk timings and downtime to make it work
deft nymph
i guess you'd like
rigid mango
Blood is just another level, though
deft nymph
and hold your tricks for the beam
feels like you'll be capping tho
whereas bote you just do normal stuff
rigid mango
You will, and it's clunky
Bote is just better because there is no downside really
At the cost of 1 gcd your st, cleave, prio, mongo aoe, all better.
fleet whale
My goal is to have every essence at rank 3... except for Ripple in Space
also something kind of funny, Venom rush actually sims higher than exsang for me. No SS in the sims which is prob why, but that ability has seen better days
solar rose
tawdry basalt
for PURE st, BotE/Lucid/lifeforce?
arctic walrus
clf + lucid/iris
low junco
bote or clf for azshara progression 
arctic walrus
tidemistresses
low junco
first pulls kinda blind about everything
digital heron
So i have benethic hands and belt should i roll for boots or wrists next
digital heron
well one day maybe it will roll the socket xd
just happened to get lucky from wq on others so lets see how this goes
strange python
best trait comp for mythic+
tropic ocean
any of ss eb ttk
Mix how u like it
i use 3ss3eb atm and enjoy it
not having 3op is a bit shitty though
timber pawn
Using 445 coral and 430 font, should I be popping coral 15 secs befo re comes off CD or using Font and then coral proc after it comes back up
balmy quest
font -> coral
because font has channelling time which overlaps the trinket CD
meaning you get more overlap between the two trinkets if you use font first
4 sec more overlap
meaning you can fit 14 sec of both trinkets over your vendetta if you use them correctly instead of just 10sec
timber pawn
perfect thats what i was doing so far TY!
cyan musk
vapid scarab
for 2 expansions ago yes
fading stag
should I be using clf before or after vendetta?
cobalt pelican
beforure
fading stag
okay thanks!
ripe portal
You did it
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fading stag
Anyone know what the best benthic belt it? or is that like a sim thing
fading stag
alright thanks!
lavish dawn
which is the best benthic bracers for sin?
raven mica
Ori's, frost damage one.
lavish dawn
damn just got the pufferfish one from a WQ, was hoping i didnt have to gamble anymore haha
frozen karma
Alright so if I understand the font/coral usage correctly I'm supposed to font at 5ish second then do my normal opener until coral is up then use font as soon as it's back and then delay vendetta for TB and finally coral when it's ready?
arctic walrus
Ye
frozen karma
Cool, just trying to make sure, finally got Font after like 5 weeks of other raiders getting it
but i got a socket so it's cool
sudden ocean
@lavish dawn puffer ones will be very close to frost ones, up to you if you'd rather take the small hit and focus on other benthic
lavish dawn
ive already got all the other benthic, was just hoping my days of gambling on main were over haha
sudden ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fUNRKFifV5Kb6CuTrWG1xF @rigid mango C&S 3 pulling ahead on its own 
17 dps behind focused energy
raven mica
how much is the mechagon rings set contributing to ur deepz
sudden ocean
massively
not even 440 slotted rings outpace them
or they'd have to be bis statted to do so
cobalt pelican
eh, they're about equivalent to 430 sockets from what i've seen
like i have a haste/vers ring and a haste/mastery ring and the mechagon set is like +20dps or something
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vnBCWs76FP1ig3vqgqCMLiC
Cuz, other than a slight azerite upgrade, idk how thats a 500 sim higher than me.
cobalt pelican
should give you an idea at least
obviously if the rings proc holes etc they're worth it and probably worth still doing mechagon weekly but meh
raven mica
especially considering how fucking bonkers my coral is.
distant lava
how high do you sim muffin
cobalt pelican
your lack of holed rings is highly disturbing
sudden ocean
i give them away
because none of them sim higher
probs given away 6 or 7 slotted 430s
distant lava
butbutbut that's dumb
cobalt pelican
you mispasted the sim link muffin so idk
distant lava
what happens if you can't hit the boss from behind della
cobalt pelican
yeah i guess that makes sense, with a hole on either of the mechagon rings they're probably better than most ring sets
sudden ocean
i only do keys with guildies dj so it's technically a dps increase 
then I use my 3 abilities ring
that sims like 100 behind
raven mica
im not gonna log back onto retail to resim
wait why do I give a shit about my sin sim I main outlaw
cobalt pelican
outlaw shmoutlaw
sudden ocean
utlaw
cobalt pelican
yeah assassination and sub
sudden ocean
I play them all, just not the bad ones
so outlaw and sub off the table till next expac
if I wanted to roll dice I'd go to the casino
probably end up less disappointed too
cobalt pelican
i like outlaw actually i just need a helmet but i'm not allowed to gamble helmets until goraks comes home
which is never
distant lava
cobalt pelican
i got it once and then gave it to a druid
distant lava
just roll irontide 
cobalt pelican
who didn't even know if he wanted it
cause at the time i was like hahahaha outlaw
sudden ocean
435 w/ace deadshot op for free
cobalt pelican
and now i'm like.. outlaw??
sudden ocean
FOR FREE
we have like 3 boomies desparate for Perfection 3 so they've come along ready to hand off the helmet every time
cobalt pelican
i might see if i can get a gang of gamers to do it with me this week with ring traders and helmet traders
crisp hollow
final dust
Holy fuck I never want to fucking see another tentacle in my life
ripe burrow
arctic walrus
it's in the guide
fleet whale
Garrote, and extend it to it's full pandemic duration
deft nymph
i think it's garrote rupt garrote for 1 target
if it doesn't have rupt yet
or just garrote garrote
rigid mango
Opener is g rup g, yah
signal salmon
Is Eb>infusion for m+?
deft nymph
the nagas downstairs on org are also aberrations right
signal salmon
Ty!
sharp viper
only orgozoa and the zoatroids are aberrations, the rest are humanoid
bronze kelp
isnt zaqul also an aberration ?
deft nymph
ya
and i think all the adds on zaq are aberrations too
except your fellow raiders in delirium :p
worldly iron
yes, za'qul is also an abberation but they were specifically talking about the adds on orgozoa (which is more of a #wow-general question)
bronze kelp
ah okay
steady owl
Why g r g and not g g r to get five combo points for rupture?
worldly iron
you don't lose damage on a 3p rupture, you just need to refresh sooner. by delaying the garrote, you gain more from the pandemic
and you also don't waste combo points
steady owl
Ah that makes sense thanks
neat estuary
g r g means you have to refresh your r during vendetta doesnt it?
while g g r means you can envenom all CPs during vendetta and vanish g r g at the end of vendetta
when the dots are running out
rigid mango
That's fine though
Properly pandemicing garrote with ss + subt > worrying about when next rupture is
blissful storm
reading from the internet: "If Rupture Icon Rupture is about to fall off, it can be reapplied with any number of Combo Points to maintain uptime. It is best to apply it with 4+ Combo Points, however, for maximum Energy efficiency and rotational fluidity."
what is the rupture reapply window? last 5 seconds?
oh nvm I got my answer: "You can safely refresh a 5 Combo Point Rupture when it has 7.2 seconds or less remaining"
worldly iron
aye, and 6 seconds left if you're at 4cp
strange python
when do you use condensed life force?
vast forum
Depends on fight length
On a 5 min fight you use on pull and with 3rd vendetta
Basically line up with vend if you don't lose casts, use on cd if you would lose casts delaying
strange python
alright, thanks
rotund mural
dead-eye spyglass and harlan trinket combo good for m+?
vernal flume
dead-eye is cool, harlan is meh alright
rigid mango
@rotund mural coral + spyglass is best, dice is aight to swap with spyglass
frozen pecan
worldly iron
it's not affected by vendetta so it shouldnt be affected by ep either
worldly iron
i gotchu
vast forum
I found it best to use just after vend and before 2nd tb, as you're pooling anyway
hardy mural
is queen's court mythic much harder than orgozoa?
scarlet sequoia
no
tropic ocean
@hardy mural just a different fight with different priorities
once u got the timings and cds sorted its dead
personally would rate it easier than orgozoa
hardy mural
aight thank you
desert vault
CD on trinkets is how long? Like 15s?
royal lantern
20sec
strange python
So out of all Benthic gear pieces which one should I upgrade 1st to 425 since it takes a while before I will be able to do it again
strange python
yup
worldly iron
that works too
strange python
hmm okay will do that. ty 🙂
upper canyon
when you guys sim for m+, do you generally do dungeonslice or just set the # of bosses and change the fight time? so far I've been doing 40 seconds with 4 bosses no lust
rigid mango
I don't sim 
You can pretty much go off a rule of thumb for whatever choice you have to make
Sin m+ is mainly feelies anyways
upper canyon
I've played sub ever since I started in BC so I cant just feelycraft my way with assassination yet : (
Although just gitting gud would definitely be more beneficial than stat optimizations at this point
rigid mango
Just ask and someone (odds are me) will answer
upper canyon
on huge pulls if I have enough ruptures going to not run out of energy should i just spam FoK for echoing blades and not envenom? I tend to fall behind super hard on like 8+ mob pulls if I don't have meme beam up, on 4-6 mobs I tend to generally do fine though
upper canyon
mmk
rigid mango
If your haste is sub 11% you nees 5 bleeds, 4 if 11% or above
upper canyon
I only have 2 essence slots since I've only been playing BFA for 2 weeks so I'm just running beam major + lucid rank 2 minor, does that change the # of bleeds I need? or does lucid not refund fok
rigid mango
Lucid does, but it's not consistant enough to play around it really
If you're into m+, grinding r3 blood is a worthwhile time investment for sure
Conflict too, if you've got time to
upper canyon
alright, I'll keep that in mind. I like pvp anyways so that won't be too bad, one last question tho since I have class in a few minutes. Am I doing something wrong in Siege of Boralus if my overall is just significantly lower than in like every other key
or is that just how it goes
i was like 10k+ below what I normally get in other keys like UR or temple
rigid mango
Siege normally is lower for me
But it's all anecdotal situations
Sin really shines when stuff takes time to kill since our burst aoe isn't great, but sustained is probably the best in the game or very close to anyways
Or burst ST
upper canyon
mm alright. I'm gonna give outlaw a shot once my reforge costs go down, I only have like 1.5 sets of azerite rn so I'm having to reforge for raid and shits getting expensive hella fast. Seems like outlaw cleave is pretty sick too
rigid mango
Siege has a lot of burst aoe -> low target
upper canyon
ah
rigid mango
Outlaw is slightly better than sin
But they're pretty much on par for most scenarios, sin is much more of a pain to gear though
upper canyon
yeah, I realized I had sick azerite for outlaw, my assassin stuff is pretty eh, for ST I still only have 1 DD, and for M+ I have 2 echoing blades + 1 SS. but I'm too poor to pay for all these reforges so I just run 1 echo + 1 SS
rigid mango
That's really good
upper canyon
I still wear all my benthic though since I dont have good alt sets
short pivot
Guys thought on inkpod In m+ pls
Is it better than 445 azerok or na? Somehow total dps with it is higher!
rigid mango
Inkpod's probably quite aight this week
spice marsh
should I be dropping haste enchants on rings and gems for crit and vers then? I mostly do pvp and mythic +'s on my rogue
rigid mango
Dunno about pvp, but for m+ you don't want haste yeah
vocal ginkgo
hey guys can any1 tell me how i can put a raidbots gear input on the droptimizer without having to change traits in game?
rigid mango
You can manually change the numbers
If you know what they are, you can edit your simc input on each line with the one you want
vocal ginkgo
ah right, thx a lot!
cobalt pelican
if you're lazy just run a top gear, select the traits you want, copy the string output from the result and use it in the droptimizer
sour bloom
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
desert vault
What does 11% haste do for m+
carmine moth
anyone around to do some quick log analysis?
warm summit
So what is everyone doing for their 3rd essence slot for PvE raiding? Was thinking Life Force, Lucid Dreams, and Blood or Flames?
raw oasis
turbid osprey
ive been running clf lucid and iris
raw oasis
They're all passive right, so sim will be the best determiner.
turbid osprey
yeah, but it doesnt hurt to answer the guy:)
warm summit
that makes sense, increase haste off iris
bright smelt
been running the same, clf lucid and iris
verbal knot
It's about 2k from what I saw with my gain.
Should probably mention that's single target patchwork and using Lucid and iris minors
rigid mango
Conflict is very close and better than iris if the fight is bad for iris
jaunty crystal
should I just keep rolling benthics until I get sockets?
verbal knot
yes
It's a grind unless you are super lucky, but it's worth it
Bracers are the worst
In my terrible experience, save up pearls on your rogue, use alts to feed benthic gear to your rogue, that way you can upgrade them as soon as you get them
indigo jolt
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
fleet whale
flame isn't a bad choice for a second minor either depending on your stats, but there is some RNG to it
verbal knot
the difference between fish and frost is like ~100 dps, it's negligible, but stuff CAN move out of fish before it blows up, so something to consider
But essentially either is fine
rigid mango
The issue is that puffer might not always hit
I've found mine does close to same, but varies
exotic hearth
So can anyone answer why ravenholdt site says crit is king but icy-veins is saying it should be a mast build again? I just returned after a few months and idk which to follow
nimble tinsel
Simming is the only correct answer because either of those could be true depending on your gear.
exotic hearth
Gotcha. And by chance do you happen to know a site/addon combo to sim. I remember I used to have an addon that would give me a string then I could sim my char super easily without downloading simcraft
bright tusk
Just changed from outlaw to addon, which dungeons should I grind for best gear?
nimble tinsel
@exotic hearth Raidbots.com can pull from armory, or you can use simc addon in game to get a string to paste into it as well.
verbal knot
@bright tusk Raidbots has a droptimizer section, you can see how big of an upgrade the items in each dungeon are
bright tusk
"You need to be a raidbots premium member to sim all dungeons"
high ermine
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
bright tusk
Such a helpful community ^^
shut garnet
does anyone else's unmooring whispers sim 300dps below loa with the same ilvl? 
scarlet sequoia
yeah
scarlet sequoia
yeah
rigid mango
You've gotta have like, 2 np already or smth
modest badge
anyone got a link to azerite gear table with traits and stuff. I used it before when planning on what to use my residum for but i lost it
cobalt pelican
even then unmooring has dd/loyal/op so
your stat weights would need to be massively out of whack for swirling sands to be better than loyal
verbal knot
Tunic of sycophant is simming 1.6% increase over Blackwater for me. Weird.
cobalt pelican
pretty normal if you've not reduced undulating efficiency to 0%
rigid mango
Aint that UT?
verbal knot
yeah, oh I heard you guys talking about that before.
Is it some bug that makes it so high value?
cobalt pelican
it's just a trait that doesn't work if you're below 50% ever
so is written off as basically useless in a raid environment unless you know your health won't ever be dropping
candid jasper
iris essence seems to be showing higher than blood, but people are recommending to use blood
fleet whale
cause blood is overall more versatile, and fits assassin's toolkit better
with that said iris isn't bad by any means
vagrant tapir
when it comes to holding vend to line with coral
How much time between font and vend do you want
civic palm
Font and Vend. should never be more than 10seconds apart.
Font being off CD before Vendetta.
cobalt pelican
just press your font when it's off cooldown and press vendetta when tb or coral comes up whichever happens first
civic palm
If you do it right at the beginning of the fight they force themselves into line.
vagrant tapir
yeah thats what ive been doing
About 10s
Coral comes up mid vanish
Should I be delaying vanish so coral starts at the begining of vanish?
So the crit is up for MA
or dont delay
cobalt pelican
as long as the vanish is within tb vend and font if you can get it inside coral aswell i guess it's a small gain to delay 1-2 globals
but nothing worth realistically caring about
actually upon thinking about it it's probably better to have 1-2 globals at 85-90% crit just from ma/basecrit and then coral than to delay
either way it's lidderally nothing
civic palm
Yeah since the bonuses we get from Vanish are very short, they don't have to be literally lined up perfectly.
Whereas you want the entirety of Tb/Vendetta inside your Font window.
civic palm
If anything it was in #tc-updates but IIRC the most recent changes were when to use Coral in regards to the TB CD, not much holding going on there.
cobalt pelican
i don't think it's ever been a gain to hold tb for anything in the universe
civic palm
you should obviously hold TB if you're not getting most of the window
civic palm
boss disappears
TB off CD
o _o
butmuhparse
But yeah TB is a painless TC point, use it, real simple.
royal lantern
when do you use font on radiance mythic btw?
cobalt pelican
on pull and after intermission
royal lantern
i always use it when the add is at like ~30%
civic palm
on boss ye
cobalt pelican
30% is probably a little soon but yea
if you know your ad is the slow one
i guess go for it
civic palm
Yeah if there are deaths and you need to crank the add more.
cobalt pelican
i normally wait till like <10% and the final gail or whatever
royal lantern
immagine having radiance pulls without people die too the tornados 
vagrant tapir
yeah, holding tb didnt make sense, cd too short. I just cant remember what it was I read
something related to delaying around font
and tb
cobalt pelican
probably just the paragraph that's still in the tc chan
vagrant tapir
trying to find it in tc
cobalt pelican
where vendetta is delayed
till either tb or coral comes up
which in standard fight timings means
vagrant tapir
yeah thats it
cobalt pelican
font > wait > tb comes up > vendetta+tb > coral in a bit
civic palm
literally the latest thing
lol
Either way that's probably a sub 1% gain on a fight where nothing happens.
Soooo
cobalt pelican
tbh this is pretty much accurately the case on every fight you do cause you never get massive tb delays on any fight that throw the sim timings out by much more than a couple secs
vagrant tapir
:Summary of example timings: 4s precombat Font, Coral ASAP to start stacking.... Font when ready again at 1:56, Vendetta before next TB around 2:10, Coral into it at 2:16:
Should have been quots
When it says "coral into it at 2:16"
It means coral into the vendetta? That paragraph implies you're using vend and tb at 2:10
So it means to just use coral when its up?
civic palm
That coral is 20sec after Font is used.
vagrant tapir
the wording "coral INTO it" is just a little weird
civic palm
Yeah take Coral INTO the Ven/TB window.
fleet whale
so if i don't have C&S at level 3 yet, what should i use for my second minor in M+.
civic palm
So in this case you have more coverage of Ven+Tb+Coral with Font fading within the Ven+Coral window.
jovial aurora
at how many stacks is it best to use coral?
ember rover
If you only have coral as active trinket, you pair it with vendetta.
If you have font + coral, you use font 10-15s before vendetta, and coral as soon as you can into vendetta.
frosty burrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
noble temple
what the best 2nd minor trait?
icy pollen
Focusing Iris most likely
winter gale
Guys, I have all benthic apart from frost dmg hands. Should I go for them as I already have 445 crit haste
upbeat swift
solid nova
rigid mango
@upbeat swift come again?
@winter gale go to gear compare on raidbots and compare what socketed hands would give you
serene surge
Quick question, if I am at 4 combo points, do I use Poisoned Knife in order not to overcap CP rather than using a mutilate?
rigid mango
Finish at 4+
You don't use another builder
Pretty sure nearly every guide specifies this
serene surge
So if I by chance reach 4 instead of 5, I just use Env?
serene surge
Alright, thanks
dense cedar
i thought it was a myth
the poison knife thing
There must be some fucker out there lying to new rogues
bright smelt
did fuu make some dungeon cleave string for assa or am I getting old and senile here?
cant find any in pins
rigid mango
He did, but it's also based on s2 pulls
dense cedar
M+ gives me RSI
bright smelt
RSI?
dense cedar
repetitive strain injury
bright smelt
ah xd
rigid mango
There's no realistic way to sim m+, yet
Maybe if there's a similar sim done for s3 pulls sooner or later, that'll be the best
dense cedar
What pieces gives 2x TTK / 2x EB / 2x SS ?
rigid mango
My example is irontide - gold tassled - blackwater
bright smelt
pistoleer shoulders gives ss/ttk on first ring though and EB on 2nd, so pretty neat
bright smelt
@dense cedar if you have pistol shoulders then cowl of fluid mach also works
bright smelt
not from dungeons I dont think, ss/ttk that is
dense cedar
I went to check myself
rigid mango
Nope, it's the only one just chekced
dense cedar
Blackwater Pistoleer Hideous Transform
dense cedar
Helm is what matters
So thanks for telling bout helms
Might just roll a helm
I already have 2nd BiS shoulder for raid ST
rigid mango
Flashpowder / Irontide / Fluid machi
Gold tasseled / Pistoleers /fastidious machi / orgo
Cepha / blighted / blackwater
Those are all good m+ pieces
bright smelt
if you get goraks or loa head though then the crit buff they give are decent for m+
rigid mango
They're aight
dense cedar
Wish I had goark tul 
rigid mango
I'm saving for goraks now
dense cedar
I've rolled twice
bright smelt
how much you up at @rigid mango ?
dense cedar
so its either save or 200k spend
bright smelt
TR
rigid mango
50k ish
bright smelt
when reset comes along I'll have ~65k ish
rigid mango
Come reset I'll be near 70k
dense cedar
or would the difference be so great that 200k means nothing lol
rigid mango
I just need reclear with some azerite peices
Sitting on a couple of pieces I can get rid of too
bright smelt
450 coral, 430 soc spyglass and 435 font for m+? Sims tell me font and coral but feels clunky for m+
rigid mango
Coral spyglass for sure
bright smelt
font no bueno for yolo pulls?
rigid mango
Font's just not as good as coral
And 2 on use is clunk maximus
Spyglass and coral give nutty crit
Pretty confident in that being the best combo
bright smelt
cheers @rigid mango
rigid mango
bright smelt
1.8k crit / 614 haste / 1.7k mastery atm
bright smelt
36, 9, 53
rigid mango
Get thet crit up, either lower your haste or get it to 11%
cobalt pelican
all my bigforge socketed offset pieces have haste
i have like the 455 first boss bracers with haste/lowcrit
rigid mango
If they have crit it's fine
cobalt pelican
and the gloves from blackwater which are haste/vers
a haste/vers belt with no alternative
rigid mango
Mine are just fucking bad
rigid mango
My crit is lower than it was in 8.1
bright smelt
feelsoofman
rigid mango
Mucking about with haste values and seeing what sticks
nocturne gate
did u rupture all 3 adds with 3+cp at orgo?with eb build
rigid mango
Probably yes
You can check the highest logs what they did
I'm not a huge fan of it so didn't run it nor was it needed for us 😄
arctic walrus
If you're going eb build you're already commiting to pad/add damage so yeah you probably should
sudden ocean
with a 3 eb 1 scent 2 ttk build I did about 60% Org, 30% add split on our pulls
desert vault
So like 37 crit 11 haste is decent for m+
rigid mango
So you ramp faster
g g g rup and you're done
You can go full prio or mongo from there or whatever is needed
desert vault
I get a little carried away at times with my bleeds
Feel guilty when I leave a mob without at least one bleed
shut garnet
is blood worth farming for m+ assa as well?
shut garnet
obviously not many people play assa in m+ but seli recently has only been playing blood
desert vault
Blood is sp good but I can stand pvp ... sucks
shut garnet
so just wondered
desert vault
I'm right with outlaw most of the time. I mean just lower keys but still
shut garnet
is blood2 still gonna be better than iris3 until i get blood to 3?
distant lava
Wait really ? What has the world gone to
royal lantern
blood is ONLY good at rank3
rigid mango
always been like that dj
royal lantern
@distant lava outlaw nerfed=ded spec
drifting cloud
Did you filter by key lvl
rigid mango
nah
distant lava
Ded
shut garnet
there might be more OVERALL assa rogues but i doubt theres more than 10 in top 100 rio
desert vault
I need someone to farm me a blood r3
shut garnet
rigid mango
yah ofc
distant lava
Man up and farm it , you think we liked playing pvp ?
royal lantern
more sin the outlaw seems weird tbh
rigid mango
I don't think people realise how much casuals hate RTB rng
royal lantern
like, 90%of the rogues you see running around where combat/outlaw
shut pasture
rigid mango
He doesn't understand rogue probably
rigid mango
Doesn't mean he's not wrong
distant lava
doesn't mean he knows exactly what he's doing
distant lava
I can do a 20FH with SND as outlaw probably
doesn't make it right
plus iirc CT used to be the play in FH in season 1
rigid mango
Just because he does high keys /=/ knowing what's correct
distant lava
maybe that's why he plays with it
rigid mango
Nor being good
rigid mango
They're all quite close
royal lantern
poison bomb doesnt carry you
rigid mango
But it imght just be personal pref
royal lantern
its a neat proc at best
rigid mango
royal lantern
would be different if somone would run stuff like nightstalker+blindside 🤷
rigid mango
It's highly over-hated
drifting cloud
1st win bonus?
rigid mango
The grind isn't as bad as people think, really
royal lantern
actually try too win games
^
you are probably close too rank4 at this point if all you did was the daily wins
shut garnet
no lol im pretty sure 1st win bonus is 1300
drifting cloud
Im pretty sure you got the numbers wrong
I farmed like 80k during bg week as merc you barely gor 1.3 in epic ones if it wasnt av or ashran
So no way you get that in a normal one when ita not bg week
shut garnet
hm maybe it was 1st win of the day
solemn pollen
Is 3x Shroud 3x ttk good for M+ or would atleast one eb be better?
royal lantern
get EB
vestal wren
not sure if ttk is even good for m+
solemn pollen
😐 Sooooo unlucky with my EB pieces 😦
marble elm
50k honor is not very much
It’s like a day and a half of farming and you can stretch it out to a week or 2 pretty casually
vestal wren
blood farming feels terrible
shut garnet
i mean at its most casual, you play to win 5bgs per day and thats around 5k assuming you go 5/5, you're done in 10 days and you're spending less than 4hrs a day
drifting cloud
You sit in queues alot over 50k honor farmed. You definetly dont just casually get it in a week lol
shut garnet
whats blood's usage as assa anyways?
vestal wren
5 bg's per day is not casual
marble elm
Depends on your definition of casual I guess
drifting cloud
It was like a 30h farm for me during bg week
marble elm
If you care about getting it you can do it in like 2 or 3 days
shut garnet
yeah but bg week starts in like 3 weeks i wanna get as close to the 50k as i can since i have nothing better to do in game
vestal wren
you can just casual spam bg's 24/7 till you got enough
marble elm
5 bgs a day isn’t 24/7
vestal wren
haha i know, just wanted to use the word casual there 🙂
vestal wren
yes, seems smarter to use bg week for hornor farming
solemn pollen
So, if i don't have any relevant pieces with EB ("best" would be 3x shroud and 3x ttk), would it be more wise going outlaw for now?
vestal wren
thats a very rethorical question as overall outlaw is the better choice for m+
solemn pollen
I enjoy sin more, but would the trait combo without EB be an uphill battle? :>
But i guess "...overall outlaw is the better choice for m+" answers my question
vestal wren
the majority of higher palyers use 2 ttk 2 eb 2 ss even tho its probably not the optimal setup but rather sth they prefere to use
strange python
what is my Best trinket set up for m+ that i have in my bags - https://puu.sh/EesVr/cf9e8b17a5.png
vestal wren
my point is, you should be fine in m+ even without optimal trait setup
solemn pollen
Yes, certainly, my dps is okay but in certain dungeons it just feels like i fall somewhat behind without any EB. So outlaw might overall be the better choice for me aswell
vestal wren
overall damage is just one metric, ttk is def. a good trait to be high on overall
solemn pollen
Yes. I might just stick to sin then. I just have a hard time choosing :>
distant lava
without EB I wouldn't play sin in keys tbh
rigid mango
TTK isn't a good trait to be high on overall
if you want high on overall you'd go 3 eb ss or 3 eb 2 ss 1 bbi
TTK is good thanks to ST/prio/low target damage, not overall
shut garnet
the only dg i could imagine ttk having low impact on would prob be kings rest
rigid mango
wut
shut garnet
i meant eb
rigid mango
SS is king in kr
rigid mango
shut garnet
rigid mango
EB isn't amazing in ToS/KR imo
Esp if tyr weeks, it's aight if it's fort weeks
But on tyr weeks I don't run more than 1 eb for those 2
shut garnet
whats your 3ss 2eb 1ttk setup?
if you have one
im just running 2/2/2 with irontide, pistoleers and ceph and im too lazy to look through every azerite piece in my inventory
rigid mango
I can make that happen with 420 pieces
atm very limited choices for me if I want to run 2 450's
vestal wren
i sometimes wounder if ppl actually switch traits every dungeon to be optimal
rigid mango
If it's a high key I do, but not generally
I'd swap to as much aoe as possible for fh/ml, 3 ss and 1 eb for kr/tos
2/2/2 generally works for everything else or even those that I mentioned, but the specific builds are slightly better
vestal wren
haha, embrace the 222 meme
rigid mango
🤔
tropic ocean
@vestal wren im running 3-3 atm and kinda like it
with 2 420 pieces ~45-50k overall guess with 3x 450 can pump that up very high
vestal wren
nice
tropic ocean
i tried some dungeon with sob traits but
im probably not using it properly or good enough to be efficient
also trying with ct, as its the highest simming talent for 5-6 target for me
😛
vestal wren
5-6 target sims are missleading as everything survives forever
CT def. gets higher value from that
tropic ocean
when i use it ingame
the overall is pretty much the same
might be due to player error though
so just from personal exp i use all 3 last row talents depending on what i feel like it and cant really spot a big dps difference
not sure how to sim it better/more accurate
vestal wren
did you sim with or wirhout raid buffs/lust?
tropic ocean
oh yeah
should untick that
its still within 200dps of each other
hb being the best
cobalt pelican
from what i've looked at it's generally hb > pb > ct overall but they're all pretty irrelevant
ct is the highest maintenance with the lowest overall and a significant drop off on main target damage
and in reality hb is better than 6t patchwerk gives it credit for, so i'd almost always play it if i was playing solely for overall
rigid mango
How much of your overall does HB actually equate to?
I remember seli doing napkin math on it in s2 and that PB would end up doing more anyways
cobalt pelican
eh, maybe
looking at random numbers from a fh19 i did this afternoon with 2eb and even assuming the worst case scenario, like every other fok cast having a 1.2 multiplier hb would've accounted for just short of 1.1m damage, pb did 2.55m on the key
so, maybe? i guess it's hard to really say
sudden ocean
@rigid mango NOW we're gaming
tropic ocean
but with 3 eb maybe need to finally grind it
will see now without hb, my fok did 9,9% 6,3mil lets see with hb
royal lantern
not even rank 4
tropic ocean
the difference is small
it is more overall for me
my poison bomb does 3-4%
overall
and stats are 42.4% crit 7% haste 42% mastery
hushed arrow
Huge stats for m+ Kreygasm
tropic ocean
Basically have crit mastery only with sockets on most
Except for pants that are crit vers but 450 nd i dont have 430 socket crit mastery pants
vestal wren
if all 3 are close, pb might be the most comfortable pick
tropic ocean
Still using 420 helm and chest need to work on that
hushed arrow
Your minors are crucible flame + memory?
tropic ocean
Imo bote is >>>> iris
hushed arrow
Especially for eb dmg I suppose?
tropic ocean
U lose almost 3 cast
tropic ocean
and the minor of iris basically useless on trash
tropic ocean
And minor protocol is just very good aoe wise
rigid mango
so aus, hb was 0.6% more damage with 3 eb?
tropic ocean
yea
9,9% fok -> 14,5%
but losing poison bomb
not the most accurate maths though 😄
hushed arrow
I guess you can also play differently while poison bomb nah? More dotting = more chances to proc it?
tropic ocean
you dont really alternate your playstyle to proc poison bomb
rigid mango
I don't think HB is worth it then
tropic ocean
or at least I don't i just put bleeds to have energy and then fok envenom
tropic ocean
with my haste its usually 4-5 bleeds
hushed arrow
yeh I see
rigid mango
what haste are you at?
tropic ocean
7
hushed arrow
Pretty fckin good though can't wait to have 3 ebs
tropic ocean
i guess with hb and 3 eb i should use less envenom and more fok to max it out more but meh