i wanna say playing with higher ilvl piece is safer
#assassination
lethal heart
because extra agility is just nice
unless you really know what you're looking for
tropic ocean
np is really useless in m+
the 1 ss will give you a lot more value than the np throughout the dungeon
for sim you can try to use this:
fuu08/18/2019
those 2 are probably the best you can run:
dungeon slice
https://pastebin.com/UXKAbiX0
dungeon slice adds only
https://pastebin.com/uEMEWVy2
afaik they are better optimizied for sin than dungeonslice
vestal wren
the pack uptime depends on the probabilities of the pack.
Those are taken from a statistic koji did s2 for mob packs.
It excludes trivial packs.
Downtimes between backs are lower then in raidbots dungeon slice but should be closer to what you have in m+
rigid mango
Oh is that s2 stuff and not s3?
vestal wren
yes, as by the time i made it there where no clear pull routes
not sure if there are stable routes now, hence the affix can change those quite a bit
rigid mango
Have we had full rotation yet? Idk tbh
But there's for sure stable routes some weeks, but like you said they differ.
sudden ocean
No full rotation yet
frail dome
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
tropic ocean
Few more weeks and you'll have a good route for every emissary placement
full pond
the best stats for assa in pve is haste>critic>mastery>versa? question of noob
full pond
I need 3 gear pve raid, pve m+ and pvp
in Pve raid i dont know,
PVE m+ > crit>mastery>versa>haste?
and PvP Haste 20% >versa>mastery>criti
full pond
so crasy if you want to be good hahaha
tropic ocean
For st ur stat priority can vary a lot depending on your essence
full pond
im see this guide http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ xc hahah
solid nova
Yes, thats a generic weighting for stats
Your personal stat weights will vary depending on talents/traits/gear
So you'll need to sim them, to be accurate
And they vary from player-player
full pond
Thanks I will start using the simulations
wet ruin
hmm, should I drop bbi for loyal to the end when it is a sidegrade?
arctic walrus
are you simming loyal with death proc chance
wet ruin
didn't know I can do that, no just with 4 allies
arctic walrus
then it might have a higher value than stated in the sim
but how sidegrade of a sidegrade
arctic walrus
well how many do you have inraid
light umbra
@vestal wren nice i just cameback in 8.2patch to experience bfa hehe. i wish sub was as good as legion 😩
wet ruin
just 4 :D, so one not comming and its fucked
arctic walrus
just stay with bbi
vestal wren
to be fair subtlety was only good for 1 tier and got heavy nerfed during that one
light umbra
wdum antorus was good too
wet ruin
how do you sim with loyal deaths vel
light umbra
or u mean in bfa only for 1tier
arctic walrus
There's a line you put into the custom apl, I don't have it though
wet ruin
now when I simmed it its not a sidegrade for some reason :D, I guess I hit some bigger error or something, but when I drop bbi my stat weights change and throw in another ring and its a bigger increase
modest coyote
What is the optimal way for us to use font + coral?
vernal flume
pins
edgy ginkgo
which essence should i play, besides Guardian+lucid? i mean which third 🙂
arctic walrus
"think" 
edgy ginkgo
dude, they are simming almost the same, but as you know, the iris sims pure ST way better than it is in real fight with target switches... so, what you think?
slender urchin
I use Iris as my 3rd
cobalt pelican
thingken about butts
long anchor
What type of balance should I try to hit with crit and mastery in M+? Obviously more of each is better, but I’m currently at 41% crit and 40% mastery and I’m unsure if I should move gems around to drop some crit for mastery (running 3ttk, 2ss, 1eb)
rigid mango
Sounds good to me, I suppose your vers and haste are really low in that case
Sounds like very good stats to me
long anchor
10% haste and 1.5% vers (using C&S as second minor)
rigid mango
Sounds p good to me
long anchor
Alright thanks
wet ruin
any reason why loyal to the end is so down the list in herodamage?
rigid mango
Does it specify amount of people using it?
wet ruin
ye with 4 allies
looking at this
it should be much higher
it even has the lowest std. deviation
rigid mango
It's a static sim I suppose
It wears whatever it can find from raid + benthics
and dungeon azerite
It has mastery on a lot of pieces, could realistically lower the value of loyal a fair bit
This is one of the main reasons why simming >>>>>> herodamage/bmallet
wet ruin
yea, the gear seem to have a lot of mastery on them
its still kinda weird that it prefers double LTTD rather than NP + BBI
cobalt pelican
it's a trait that's very dependant on what mastery you already have
arctic walrus
it's like ~50
wet ruin
well, my mastery rating is the lowest from my stat weights
rigid mango
Ditto
But I also already wear one loyal already
And a lot of my pieces, just like herodamage, have mastery
wet ruin
yea, one loyal is good, I just thought NP + BBI would be better
rigid mango
It is
Just not for you
Sims are personal, your stats/pieces fuck shit up, makes shit different
cobalt pelican
to be honest like the base profile is so far from real peoples characters this tier
rigid mango
At peak sims, 2 dd 1 np loyal ttk bbi and 3 ttk 1 np bbi ttk are p much same
cobalt pelican
since sockets are effectively farmable
rigid mango
It's very far, yeah
cobalt pelican
and nobody plays worldvein
cobalt pelican
i think people are averaging like 6-7 sockets on their gear this tier
rigid mango
Idk why it wears that belt tbh
cobalt pelican
it's probably pretty close to unsocketed vims
and i guess some stuff might've minorly changed since it was formed
wet ruin
but if LTTD sims that high, in reality it can be much much higher
as the sims doesn't count for people dying
cobalt pelican
my character is similar to yours annsie in that like, when i simmed potential azerite replacements playing loyal on the zaqul helm was better than even my first np
i think i'd only play multiple loyals if a) it simmed insanely higher or b) we had 7-8 people with it and not the bare minimum
cause like, even though the mastery caps at 4
if you lose 1 guy you get the temporary deathbuff but then you're also not at maximum mastery etc
cobalt pelican
yeah it is
wet ruin
do you get the death bonus for what you had, or is it dynamically changing
so if you have 4 and one dies, do you get mastery for 3 alive + death bonus equivalent to 3 allies
or you get death bonus for 4 allies
cobalt pelican
i'm not 100% sure actually i've never tested it, i THINK you get the full 4 because the person who died shows as receiving the buff for a milisecond in logs so i think it applies before the death applies
but to be sure you'd need to test it with another person
wet ruin
I still think with bare minimum even if you lose one it would be better
as the death buff is pretty strong
arctic walrus
I'm simming a whole 60 less when seemingly nothing is different what happened 
wet ruin
vel, it is a sidegrade yes, but the death buff would make it skyrocket
wet ruin
I would assume taking 2 LTTD might change socket/enchant combinations that might make it not a sidegrade anymore
cobalt pelican
i don't think the knockon effects of mastery are really that big on other stats so unelss you're gemming some mastery/have alternative non mastery pieces it'll be significantly different
maybe worth checking out though
shut garnet
pretty sure thats not too great since your main damage is ruptures and envenoms monkaS
wet ruin
rupture is not your main source of dmg
and its not like I can put a stat on an item 😄 I need it to drop
rigid mango
Rupture is the highest damage ability from 1 GCD iirc
arctic walrus
ttk env tho
rigid mango
With 2 ttk's on me, rupture still does 11k more damage
Just about it being slow damage, not instant
rigid mango
Depends on fight too
Rupture is really high on cleave/swap fights
Azshara for example, I've only checked top 2 logs, but both have rup right after env
wet ruin
yes ofcourse, talking about purely single target
royal lantern
its envenom/melee #1-#2 most of the time
rigid mango
Should be DD after envenom
royal lantern
then rupture or DD, deepens if you proced it many times
fast anvil
Out of curiosity what do you guys do during queens court? During repeat performance do you guys take the 2 second silence or just mut once envenom. or do you throw a random skill into it for no silence.
wet ruin
mutilate and DD are basically the same thing
royal lantern
on hc i just take the silence 🤷
wet ruin
so you should combine them imo
wet ruin
kinda depends on fight length as well
dark crag
Detection
rigid mango
Fight length?
I mean, if you get 2 giga windows and nothing else, yeah
Obviously burst is going to be superior
sudden ocean
fast anvil
Wait can you spam detection o.o?
fast anvil
holy shit 🤔
fast anvil
no but use it over and over throughout global cd
wet ruin
yea
fast anvil
thats what i meant by spam
sudden ocean
Just save your instants for potential overlap with cds making you have to double multi
Muti*
wet ruin
and what makes it weirder is that mastery is the lowest for me, even though I have pretty much no mastery
sudden ocean
Are you using loyal to the end
wet ruin
one yes, but even with loyal with no allies mastery is still bottom
wet ruin
little as in only 2 benthics have mastery
rigid mango
Yah but %
sudden ocean
That’s not a %
wet ruin
I mean its 200 mastery rating
it will be pretty low %
besides the default mastery you have
rigid mango
Sin has very high base mastery so
sudden ocean
No he’s asking what your mastery is total
rigid mango
I've got 45% and it's worst, but that's not shocking
royal lantern
38%in my raid settup
sudden ocean
Yeah mine is the same as were probably in the same gear and it’s worst
wet ruin
well what does it matter, if mastery is good and I have pretty much no mastery, it should be high in the list
sudden ocean
Not necessarily , crit is king atm
sudden ocean
Mastery is the odd duck as it doesn’t provide the throughput that it did in legion
rigid mango
Mastery just doesn't scale with any of the essences
sudden ocean
When you had like 200% and MP was meta
wet ruin
yea, but why did we start talking about mastery being good then 😄
rigid mango
Mastery is good, just not good enough, atm
But the raw amount of stats from loyal is nuts
I don't know if it still sims without any deaths at all
wet ruin
I have 30% mastery
sudden ocean
We just said loyal to the end is so above average that it warrants using
sudden ocean
It’s a huge amount of mastery for a trait
shy dust
It doesn’t sim with any deaths
rigid mango
smh
shy dust
But you can make it sim with deaths
rigid mango
I know
royal lantern
mastery is not bad, the other stats are just better right now
wet ruin
2 DD + NP + BBI + TTK + LTTE
royal lantern
but its not a dead stat
rigid mango
I've gotta check how much dps I can squeeze out if I make someone suicide each vendetta
cobalt pelican
i've had weird windows over the tier where mastery has been the goto that only seem to last like a weeks worth of gear changes
sudden ocean
No that’s why most bus geared sims will have it near the other stats, just lower
cobalt pelican
but i never pay attention to that stuff anyway
busy being gemmed crit till the end of the world
rigid mango
I've never had anything but crit being the highest
haste was, for like, 2 days
Then I got 1 piece and now it's crit again
sudden ocean
Yeah lucid dreams was crazy for the first few weeks
rigid mango
sudden ocean
Start of the tier when you didn’t have a second essence
wet ruin
@rigid mango you can have someone die at the start for best results, not just vendetta
rigid mango
wdym
wet ruin
haven't payed attention to it, but according to the tooltip you should get it for the rest of the fight
rigid mango
No
royal lantern
new raid strat
rigid mango
15 sec
sudden ocean
No you don’t
royal lantern
stack paladins and everyone is using loyal
rigid mango
Just a 15 sec window of it with a 20yd range
royal lantern
and you just sacrifice players
bonus points for going lightforged for the death explosion
wet ruin
blizz tooltips strike again 
sudden ocean
The only time the loyal to the end extra buff is reliably usable on prog is probably ashvane, you put it on your bubble tank and they should die on your second CLF
For a big hit of damage
wet ruin
yea, I was telling that to the tank, be he didn't have the trait
sudden ocean
Other than that it’s just a thing that happens with very little impact on your prog or parse
sudden ocean
Does it line up with cds?
sudden ocean
That’d be comfy
rigid mango
You only get off 2 vend's in 2 phase strat so
Should honestly have one die on 1st dmg phase too
royal lantern
immagine having enough dps too do the 2phase strat
wet ruin
I am stuck in a shit guild 😦
royal lantern
rigid mango
So am I
wet ruin
imagine having a guild in which people can do more than 30k dps....
this is how bad it is
if someone needs a rogue btw I am available 😄
rigid mango
wet ruin
yeea, I am too lazy thats why I am just complaining
fallen sapphire
Hey chaps, I'm a NE rogue but Raidbots is telling me I'll gain about +200 dps if I was a Human.. I'm assuming 'the human spirit' racial will give me roughly +97 extra rating to all my secondary stats (and I assume enchants and gems remain unaffected?), compared to NE with a flatout +1 increase to haste at night.
I do really like Shadowmeld and it definitely has it's uses, but I'm wondering if anyone can shed any further light on the mechanics of the human racial and also why for example, herodamage says that NE is miles ahead of other races in a dungeonslice sim? - if it's because of the +1% haste, Gnome also has that racial, yet are ranked much further down the list.
Wowhead as a percentage says Human makes up 16% of alliance rogues, and NE as 13%, so I don't think either way it's a massive deal, but +200 dps sounds like it could be worth changing for, and I wouldn't sniff at the increased rep gain racial either if I went human. For ref I mostly pve and raid mythic raids and m+.
rigid mango
It's far ahead in dslice thanks to meld > stealth > reopener
vestal wren
not a personal attack, but you should not post walls of text.
try to keep it short and use
visual seperation.
rigid mango
With the trait + talent combo of shrouded suffocation and subterfuge, that opener is very potent, you're more or less playing with a second vanish for dps
fallen sapphire
Ok that makes sense. I usually only Outlaw for m+ so I'm more interested in your average mythic raid boss encounter really where I predominantly play Sin
rigid mango
You probably wont see a diff in dps from swapping
fallen sapphire
@vestal wren No worries, sorted/
cobalt pelican
human superior raid race nelf superior dungeon race velf superior look race
pick your poison
fallen sapphire
I was a Dark Iron Dwarf but couldn't stand the animations, female nelf is pretty cool to be fair.
Mmmm
mint harness
Quick question, which is more viable? Poison or bleed?
fallen sapphire
It's funny seeing normal Dwarf be bis for Outlaw rogues because of the increased crit damage, I did chuckle at that one ha
fallen sapphire
@mint harness In what environment?
shut garnet
im sure ive tried it before and it didnt work
shy dust
In a m+ you can shadowmeld to drop combat and restealth
fallen sapphire
@shut garnet No, but it does boost Ambush damage I believe, and can get extra garottes
shy dust
If you’re not against a boss yes
shut garnet
the more u know
rigid mango
Meld puts you in an awkward like
Between not in combat but not stealthed either position
fallen sapphire
In all fairness, Shadowmeld is really versatile. And brilliant for world pve stuff. I think I'd miss it quite a bit. If my vanish is on cd and mobs are chasing me I just meld and I'm good to go
mint harness
Say raid
rigid mango
It's awesome for m+
shut garnet
sounds so bad but ive been a rogue nelf for2 yrs and i dont think even have meld on my ability bar
rofl
rigid mango
mint harness
Or over in general
fallen sapphire
I've played feral since vanilla up until a few months ago, so I've used it for years.
mint harness
Pve* fuck autocorrect
fallen sapphire
hmmm, choices, choices
rigid mango
Like I said, you wont feel the diff from changing
shut garnet
does being a void elf compared to nelf have any dps benefits
except the blink
which kind of is a dps increase(?) right
fallen sapphire
@rigid mango You're probably right.
rigid mango
It's a possible dps inc, and it has the 5% proc
It's very useful in scenarios where you need it
royal lantern
if you need too ask if a racial gives you something
rigid mango
Like having a 2nd step, sometimes
royal lantern
you are not even close too play on the lvl where you racial does more then 0,2%difference
rigid mango
Sometimes nothing
royal lantern
and overall the velf proc is pretty bad
shut garnet
well thats the point
rigid mango
Velf is aight
rigid mango
royal lantern
im on it
rigid mango
I wanted to meme it first
cobalt pelican
this was when i was nelfbase
but ya if you have a strong aesthetic preference just go with that
kultiran didn't even make the list cause even if they were 5k dps upgrade i woudln't be one
rigid mango
Glad to see panda didn't either
verbal knot
tbh 400-500 dps difference is like a piece of maxed out benthic gear
not huge but big enough to be like ehhhhhh
but I can't say much, I'm undead.
turbid osprey
belf for m+ 😮
royal lantern
the thing is
that shit is not even true most of the time
like, i can immagine that most people would actually lose dps by going troll cus they used the racial bad/wrong/bad timing
wich food does the sim take for pandaren 🤔
verbal knot
Meh maybe I will change to Mag'har anyways Transmog life is hard as undead
royal lantern
soooo....its 262 agility bonus for pandas in the sim
fleet whale
does anyone know why Ripple in Space minor basically sims for nothing? I'm not saying that it's a powerful essence at all, but hero damage makes it seem like it does nothing
hazy canyon
Idk, maybe the apl isn’t built to handle it?
fleet whale
yeah, i guess it just doesn't have your char moving that much
cobalt pelican
patchwerk sim stands still
you can force the buff to be simmed and it's still bad so
just kinda ignore it as an essence to be honest
hazy canyon
How much agil does it give at ~65 heart level, anyone know?
fleet whale
yeah, i don't expect it to be that great, but it just doesn't seem THAT terrible on paper
at 64 it was 790 agi for me
hazy canyon
And what’s a fully stacked c&s? 400-500 vers?
fleet whale
but i guess you also lose some up time on a boss trying to strafe around
cobalt pelican
790 agility at 66% uptime vs 400 haste, or vers with 100% uptime or flames raw damage
and that's the highest ripple uptime you can have
agility just sucks so
fleet whale
well, unless if it's an absurd amount like font
hazy canyon
If it weren’t agil, it might actually be considerable. I’d much rather take 800 on demand than 2/3 of 800 all the time or so
fleet whale
blizz just screwed stat scaling this expansion tbh. Primaries should never be as bad as what they are now
cobalt pelican
having to move 25 yards for it is like
a major drawback
this was a sim i did for annsie like a week ago or something
verbal knot
I mean there's a few classes where other stats have simmed higher. Like Fire mage and crit in legion
daring cave
So i see a lot of people using crit gems in their benthic gear. sims tell me mas. should i put crit in to get it higher?
daring cave
I did lol, im just asking opinions
wet ruin
yeea, I wanted ripple to be good as well
verbal knot
Stat weights are based on what your character has, they just change based on how much you have of each stat
So if you sim says mastery > crit, it probably is for you
might not be for someone else
daring cave
ok
fleet whale
i miss legion when mastery was king, no questions
daring cave
Yeah sucks when dammn near all the gear i get now a days is full of mastery
verbal knot
I'm at a point where all of my stats are within .10 DPs of each other
well other than agility.
daring cave
yeah im close to being like that, i mean its not a huge drop from the mastery gems to crit
verbal knot
that's like 2.4 DPS, others are 5
fleet whale
preferred it over this clusterF@#k of character progression known as BFA
daring cave
its also a sad day when u spend over 1k pearls and finally get the socketed ones and now trying to lvl them up
verbal knot
BFA is funny because you get a new piece of gear and it's time to change your gems
I agree I miss the old days where stat weights were pretty solid.
fleet whale
the proportions of how primaries have increased compared to secondaries this expac is way off
hence why gems are so powerful
jolly agate
There should always be a primary main stat gemmed but agi sucks
430 w/ sock always beats a 440, feelsbad
wet ruin
I like how blizzard entered bfa with "ilvl and agility should be the best stat" yea only for like leveling to 120
verbal knot
yeah like "btw here's benthic gear. I hope you like never replacing anything from current raid content no matter the difficulty"
I hate benthic gear
royal lantern
if you think the problem is benthic gear
idk what too say
the problem is socket forges
rigid mango
Tryan.
royal lantern
zine 
rigid mango
Read what you typed.
royal lantern
god dammit
rigid mango
Uh-huh
royal lantern
too my deffense
rigid mango
royal lantern
it was 8sec before the arena match started
rigid mango
Hey man I'm typing this whilst boosting ashvane
royal lantern
yeha but
royal lantern
boosting ashvane is not doing pvp against balance incarnated
aka: unholy dk and dh
frigid jasper
do any of you have a razor coral WA that tracks, in percentage, how much crit you gain based on the stacks?
there's plenty that display stack count, current crit% but none that convert the stack count into a readable percentage gain
languid ore
If you're looking for a certain number you could look up certain break points and remember those
verbal knot
I always thought it would be cool to have a WA that did that as well, but it's not really a big deal, you will be using it at certain times anyways I would think
frigid jasper
in raid scenarios yeah but I'm looking more towards m+ where it's not always "use at X stacks" and such
rigid mango
In m+ you just put it on prio target and let it pop when they die
Apart from interest, there's no reason to have a WA to show what crit % you get to by popping it.
verbal knot
yeah, that's what I was thinking. It might be neat, but it wouldn't change how it's used at all
midnight belfry
what traits are people generally running on tyr weeks? full st or a mix of eb/ss?
verbal knot
I believe I heard something like 2/2/2 EB/SS/TTK
Tyr or fort I think they said it's good for both
midnight belfry
thanks
rigid mango
Tyr/fort don't change traits, certai affixes might, and dungeons do
strange python
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
shut garnet
what your guys' strat to pump high on behemoth
ive heard assa rogues are meant to do good on that fight
last time i did it parsed quite low tho
low junco
shut garnet
i was gonna say, if feels so bad to have to delay opener because you start on puffer
big brains 
round ledge
boys
assassination m+
azharas font of power 430 and harlands loaded dice 430
font of power 430 and galecallers boom 445
or dice and boom
what's best combo?
rigid mango
Simming it
round ledge
feel like there's more too it than just simming it for m+
gale and font are both situational
rigid mango
Ah, m+
round ledge
so more asking if their flat power outweighs the setup required
cobalt pelican
font is pretty awkward too at this point to be honest but at least you can get value out of it
rigid mango
There's too many variables that affect that
Sim is the only way, with essences, traits, benthics and these trinkets it's impossible to give anything a definitive value
shut garnet
oof okay
cobalt pelican
maybe i'll try some more font sometime 4fun
after they changed subterfuge i got too tilted by dumb stuff (likely caused by me) happening
round ledge
what did they change about subterfuge?
royal lantern
like stealth break on orgoza
round ledge
and yeah I'm looking to hop off of font but it's the best I've got atm
just using it before bosses/packs
cobalt pelican
you could font in stealth for like 3 weeks after season start
leaden burrow
Does the rings from mechagon stack ? Im thinking this specific set: Logic loop of division (If you damage an enemy while you are behind them...) and Overclocking bit band (then you gain 160 haste for 15 sec). so does that effect stack ? or only proccable once every 15 secs ?
shut garnet
i dont think effects stack unless mentioned that they stack right?
cobalt pelican
it is not a stacking buff
swift moss
If you use 3 subterfuge garrotes and hen apply a 4th one does it make all the other ones normal like it used to? Or not anymore?
vast tulip
are the any hast or crit cap now? for assi?
vast tulip
i do it right now thx
swift moss
Okay thanks just wanted to make sure
Gotta did my wa now cause I had it setup so it would overwrite the other 3 garrotes
hoary crown
Best alliance race for raiding? Is dark iron dwarf one of them?
fleet whale
Doesn't matter that much for raiding, as all races are really close to one another in sims. If you really care for performance, Nelf might be best bet due to the fact that they do have an advantage in M+
fleet whale
You don't chose races for dps anymore, but yes, humans technically sim the highest for alliance
kind cliff
what about entropic embrace with void elf? has to matter a little
hoary crown
Ohh well I want every single dps increase I can get my hands on😜
kind cliff
if i check logs, entropic embrace for void elf did 309 dps for a total of 54k damage over a 3 minute fight
latent gazelle
!Coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
full sandal
/benthic
royal lantern
pale cave
Best triple essence combo for raiding mythic? Currently using: Major: Condensed, Minor: Lucid Dreams + IRIS
maybe Perfection instead of IRIS as the other minor?
I seem to see people going Major: Crucible, Minor: Lucid + Condensed
Also would you go double nothing personal or double doubledose where available?
royal lantern
major crucible
what
first of all: it deepens on the fight, iris as a minor is good when you can focus on 1 target all the time, conflict&strive is good if you have multiple targets for a long time as an example
but most people run life force major+lucid minor, and then either iris or conflict&strive
pale cave
ya i go iris when adds are present
cobalt pelican
vision of perfection minor is poop tier
unless you specifically need it for timings
nova carbon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
worthy lodge
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
past mauve
Question for you guys. I am redoing my gear ect based off sims and new drops this week. However, when Im looking at Ravenholdt it is showing different info than other sites (icy/raidbots) for gems..enchants and pots.
So basically is it crit or haste gems (my crit is much higher than my haste) and crit or haste enchants on the rings?
And is it unbirdled fury or potion of focused resolve for pots?
Thanks for any input!
sudden ocean
Sims will always show you what's best for your character
Websites such as RH, Icy and Wowhead are merely guidelines as to best practice, not the specifics of your gear at any given time
Use Raidbots sim features such as top gear or gear compare to test enchants and gems, for potions you can sim specific potions by selecting one down the bottom of the sim page or let Raidbots decide what's best for you
At the moment though Unbridled is the preferred pot
Make sure to also check other sim features such as Loyal to the End allies if you're using that, as it will have an effect on your stat weights
past mauve
ya we are making sure we have 4 in the raid grp to benefit from Loyal
Thanks for the input/advice Dellavoid!
placid dawn
do you guys bleed all adds on orgozoa?
and do you fok to reapply the posion or is it not worth with 3 DD?
sudden ocean
3 ruptures is the sweet spot for infinite energy
as for Sin on Org it depends on what your raid lead has assigned you to do
I was running a 3 EB, 1 Scent, 2 ttk build to a lot of success but I've switched over to outlaw now to prevent RSI from switching so much
talk with your raid lead and see whether they're lacking in add damage, if they are an EB build would be useful, if not you can focus on ST
and use ruptures for infinite energy
placid dawn
im just boss damage
sudden ocean
Yeah then I'd be rupturing for energy and focusing the boss
sudden ocean
np
placid dawn
but the question is still, fok to apply poison?
sudden ocean
I'd keep them up for a bit of extra damage
but the ruptures are the priority to benefit from Venomous Wounds
I'm not entirely sure though as I haven't done much research into whether it's better to muti over fok on that fight with a DD build
I'd probably say DD
takes prio over fok
placid dawn
i have reapply poison for venomous wounds, thats what i mean
vapid scarab
yes
strange python
question about sims
sudden ocean
No it's the ruptures that are important for the energy generation
strange python
if you're using 2 use trinkets, does it account for the use cooldown?
using font and coral and was wondering if it's using them both in the opener
sudden ocean
It accounts for cooldowns
strange python
ah ok
sudden ocean
check #tc-updates for more info
strange python
cause harlands didn't sim too much lower with coral
sudden ocean
simc is regularly updated for things like this
strange python
and was wondering if it was actually better
strange python
with coral
sudden ocean
he said with coral
sullen pagoda
oh mb
drifting cloud
yeah well we cant know ilvls of your trinkets
when you ask vague questions
so people are just going to assume baseline drops
strange python
I was more interested in my use trinket question. Just tangented to harlans
sullen pagoda
but yes it does account for cd
strange python
cool cool
frigid thistle
Quick Q does BLightbourn and swirl sand stack together
sullen pagoda
it does
strange python
that'd be some wacky crit
strange python
sim it
sullen pagoda
sim
strange python
sim
sullen pagoda
can you not write a word per sentence
past mauve
when using Font -- are most people just channeling at 7sec for the full 4 then going stealth to start opener? Trying to find the best way to optimize channeling
arctic walrus
In a perfect world you font at 4.1 seconds and pot/stealth at .1 seconds
Depending on how much you trust your group not to prepull, font at 5/6 seconds works fine
past mauve
haha ya dont trust them to do not prepull haha
past mauve
kk thats what i thought would be the easiest
strange python
I go 5
idle ember
Can anyone explain to me what deflection is on Ashvane? She has deflected my Guardian's attacks and Azerite Spikes a handful of times during attempts tonight. An avoidance mechanic that acts as a parry for magical spells. How would one avoid this?
vagrant urchin
Hey guys, i'm transfering to the horde right now, which race should i get for raiding? trol or belf? gonna run lots of keys too
arctic walrus
@idle ember Deflection is a parry for magical abilities yeah
Your race has no real big impact on your damage, keys or raid. Pick what you think looks best, as it's virtually irrelevant
long anchor
Arcane Torrent can be fairly valuable in keys so belf probably has a small advantage there
vestal wren
There is a tick box on raidbots to Sim it
sudden ocean
short answer "it's better than anything else you're going to get"
icy ember
ye i've started to believe that for all benthic pieces, it 
because nothing else can compete w/that slot, so boots/bracers/gloves/belt are all taken care of... yay 
sudden ocean
gloves are up for debate
a well forged set of Azshara ones are better
or very close to slotted poens
hoary crown
ohh thanks mate! 😄
sudden ocean
440+ no slot outperforms slotted poens for me
icy ember
including socket?
sudden ocean
Yes
it's about 50 points the difference and I'd take the Azshara gloves because they dont have a chance of rolling the heal
icy ember
the chat is full of Kapp's tonight
sudden ocean
which simc still doesn't account for
hoary crown
The vimscale belt sucks O.o
rigid mango
It's fine, just an aoe belt
sudden ocean
Idk what you're asking
winged pumice
is there anything wrong with my gear or stats
sudden ocean
6 or 7 what, targets, pulls
Yes it's very very behind the current tier
Your essences aren't level 3, your trinkets are low ilvl, you're using hidden blades with only 2 eb traits when poison bomb is usually preferred anyway
your lack of contemporary raid trinkets such as a Coral is also holding you back
winged pumice
ok thank you
sudden ocean
First thing I'd do is push for lucid 3
try and get some raid gear, prerrably heroic
winged pumice
my server/guild in general is pretty bad at raiding, we cant full clear yet
iron heath
Character:
Author: @iron heath
Updated: 9 hours ago.
Character: Brandx (US-Magtheridon)
**Spec & Class: **Assassination Rogue
**Equipped ilvl: **437
Azerite Essences: Condensed Life-Force (Rank 3), Memory of Lucid Dreams (Rank 3)
Custom Options:
Stat Scaling: Enabled
Simulation:
Report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tuLksfK1zK4WJZM7tCMSB2
DPS: 39,966
Elapsed Time: 02:42.
Pawn String:( Pawn: v1: "Brandx - Assassination (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=2.67, CritRating=4.56, HasteRating=5.23, MasteryRating=4.38, Versatility=4.46, Dps=13.17, OffHandDps=1.4 )
sudden ocean
Pugging is an option, if raiding is off the table I'd focus on getting some 440 azerite
blissful storm
Did anyone test alchemist trinkets, they come with socket, so I was wondering if they might be better than other trinkets
iron heath
How about me? Why is my dps sim so low for ilvl?
winged pumice
pugging isnt an option if you dont have curve 😦 i guess ill work on essences and azerite then, thanks
iron heath
Is my az traits wrong?
sudden ocean
Get a friend to link their curve and steal it
winged pumice
ive tried that sneaky tactic lol, they use raiderio to check
sudden ocean
brand your gear is fine, it's your complete lack off benthic gear, the fact you're using Subt with no SS traits and a lack of sockets that's the problem
also a 420 goraks and your chest isn't great
iron heath
I have benthic just no socks
sudden ocean
Yeah socketed benthic will gain you huge dps in nahj
@winged pumice I'd recommend targetting keys if you can, sim Droptimizer on Raidbots to see your biggest upgrades and push those dungeons
using your weekly residium to either buy/gamble for better azerite
iron heath
What’s the ideal traits ? I have other chests and shoulder ?
sudden ocean
I'd sim what you have against eachother and see
iron heath
But in general dd,bb,ss?
sudden ocean
DD, NP, LTTE, TTK, BBI all great traits
SS isn't really run anymore as MA outperforms subt
iron heath
No specific combo ?
sudden ocean
Bis azerite is Zaq helmet, Goraks, Fish chest
or something close to that
idk what pvp gear offers this tier, might be better
sudden ocean
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer use this as well to target specific pieces
you can also sim benthic with it
rigid mango
wdym wish?
sudden ocean
I wasn't aware it was a premium feature?
iron heath
Still have not been able to get it working
sudden ocean
what's your realm
iron heath
Magtheridon
sudden ocean
in fact just send me simc data and I'll run it
iron heath
Simc gives me error report
sudden ocean
I'd uninstall it and reinstall it
sudden ocean
that's where i download my addons from
iron heath
It’s called Simc ?
rigid mango
I use simpermut
rigid mango
simpermut and simc, yeah
rancid granite
Just ran top gear sim for the first time (24 options), and its nice to see that my equiped gear was best. Getting the hang of it 🙂
sick eagle
CLF always on CD right?
rigid mango
rigid mango
Just use simulationcraft it's simple and easy
Copy the wall of text, paste into top gear on raidbots
tadaa
iron heath
iron heath
That’s an error msg isn’t it ?
verbal mantle
after this you'll be able to select traits/stuff/talents/essences, in order to compare it
sudden ocean
No that’s the data we are talking about
verbal mantle
which error ?
sudden ocean
That’s your sim data not an error code
verbal mantle
taht s the data yeh
sudden ocean
Copy everything in the box
sudden ocean
iron heath
It’s says I need to DL..
iron heath
Ok
rigid mango
DL what?
iron heath
Let me try
rigid mango
You have the sim stuff
sudden ocean
Wut
sudden ocean
Copy the stuff in the box and the. Paste it into raidbots
dark crag
Indeed
verbal mantle
@iron heath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD4p1Yv3oi0
Literally, the first 12 mins are dedicated to this
recent video, watch and get guided
to do things properly
crimson condor
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
small belfry
hello, any one there with alot of patient to help me with some issues im having?
i think im doing very low dps for my ilvl if some one coud help me out i woud be very grateful
arctic walrus
Do you have logs you can provide
rigid mango
@small belfry link your logs and someone will help
small belfry
logs its the simC?
vestal wren
simc = sim
warcraftlogs = log
vestal wren
a log is a record of a fight you played
raidbots wont help, as it only shows your gear, but dont show where you make mistakes
vestal wren
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/aggra-portugues/thorkal
tho he has no logs
the wcl start page should cover that
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start
not sure if it mentiones it but you should also set the "advanced combat logging" feature in your settings (under networking)
small belfry
ok, i just created the acount, and turned it on, now i need to make a m+ or raid right?
vestal wren
yes essentially kill a boss and upload your log file
small belfry
oki, cause the log uploder only mentions raids, i was wondering if i needed to do a raid
vestal wren
raid fights are shorter and more scripted then m+
this means its easier to see mistakes on those
small belfry
ok ok, il do a raid to be more acurate
vestal wren
both can be logged, but raid logging is the main use for the majority of players
also bc. of the dps based ranking system that gives you points/ranks
rigid mango
M+ logging isn't really a thing
small belfry
shoud i use live log or upload log?
vestal wren
depends on your internet connection, if you have a decent one it does not matter.
If you have a not so great one you should not use live logging
small belfry
ok ok ty, about the advanced combat logging i cant find it on the settings on the website
vestal wren
its a option in the game
go to settings, choose networking -> there is a tickbox for it
rigid mango
#wow-general too, btw
small belfry
done, ty fuu «33
modest tendon
I have a question, could a DD/SS build work in m+? just garrotte x3 and single target whatever needs to die?
small belfry
one more sily question, when i log off and come back do i need to type /combatlog again?
modest tendon
obviously you cant fok
rigid mango
no way can you play DD
modest tendon
im saying just single target
rigid mango
Yeah I mean, no.
If a dungeon was 80% just bosses or smth
Sure
But there's just no reason to ever play DD in m+
SS/TTK give enough ST damage
The diff is that they also give trash damage compared to DD which never really should
vestal wren
@small belfry yes, you can also use an addon to turn it on automatically.
rigid mango
Not far from DD though
cobalt pelican
dd on trash isn't going to be giving you insane st
dd is very much a 50 minute boss encounter trait
rigid mango
^
SS probably does more than DD on regular dungeon bosses
tbh
Fights are very short
Either more, or arguable diff, unless you fully commit with DD NP and MA build
vestal wren
ttk/dd/np for st
ss for st/mt
eb for aoe
cobalt pelican
there's too many traits that scale with all pull sizes to consider dd, even if you don't want to play eb
like the statstick traits
lethal heart
i'm pretty sure shrouded/ttk are best curently for dungeons
rigid mango
Just playing swirl/bbi is better
lethal heart
because you never pull that huge really
small belfry
can u tell me its name pls? on the page u sended says dbm works for that
lethal heart
anymore
rigid mango
You don't
lethal heart
and ss/ttk are really good for cleave/3-4 target cases
rigid mango
I don't think over 2 eb is really that good outside of ml/fh tbh
It works, but just suboptimal, it seems
lethal heart
was mostly reaping that made EB amazing
vestal wren
2 or 3 Eb both seems fine
modest tendon
so why not 3xss/3xttk + CT then?
vestal wren
CT is undertuned
rigid mango
Worse to press CT as GCD
errant shadow
if i have lucid minor 3, shoud i remove vigor for the thing with 6 cp?
lethal heart
that makes TTk insantly decent
vestal wren
its not worth using CT unless blizz buffs it slightly
rigid mango
@errant shadow no
lethal heart
i think what is failed for assa is scent of blood
vestal wren
ttk is a st trait mainly 
rigid mango
You want to be envenoming often, yeah
lethal heart
it should increase rupture damage aswell
lethal heart
it is as much of st trait as cleave/aoe trait in dungeon enviroment i think
because you just get more cps -> more envenoms
rigid mango
does what fok does to all with rupture on or smth
vestal wren
ttk empower your st finisher, its a pure st trait
rigid mango
prio and st, yeah
lethal heart
im pretty sure right now you wanna run sthg like
double shrouded/double ttk + 2x free slots
something like blightborne/swirling sand/echoing blades
rigid mango
I think 2/2/2 is pretty optimal
lethal heart
depending on situation
vestal wren
i think ttk is super overvalued
rigid mango
I know you do
but every high ranking sin I talk to doesn't
and you don't even play the spec
lethal heart
i dont know what kind of combos you can achieve really since i dont know assa pieces by heart like i know outlaw pieces
but yea 2/2 is solid base to build it
2 ss/2ttk*
vestal wren
yes and thats equal to you not providing enough evidence/math/sims that prove that its more then feelcraft
😉
lethal heart
its not feelcraft, its experience
people actively run and test REAL scenarios
thats more valuable than any maths
rigid mango
You're runnig your custom scripts
And using them as objective facts as to what is best in every scenario
if that was the case, we'd all be running 3 eb ss
lethal heart
having models that present higher numbers doesnt necessarily mean this model can be applied to anything in reality
in that case
lethal heart
maybe ye
but for example
who cares you can do higher numbers in bolstering enviroment
when there is 5 packs of
really small mobs
with 1 big mob
rigid mango
Yah I mean
small belfry
@vestal wren where in dbm i can turn it automatic? sory for stil bothering with this :S
rigid mango
I did a KR key today w one eb
lethal heart
ye maybe evne triple ss
rigid mango
triple SS is bonkers in KR
lethal heart
but then your group really must play around you restealthing
vestal wren
so, explain me why the first 3x ttk log is rank 122 on orgozoa mythic boss damage?
rigid mango
lethal heart
there is many factors to that
rigid mango
Can we not ahve this argument again fuu
For like, 1000th time
You say "tttk sucks because my sims tell me so"
vestal wren
your arguments are as weak if not even weaker then my ones
rigid mango
I tell you "every good sin thinks it's good, and is used in nearlyt every key they do"
vestal wren
yet you insist on your arguments beeing an absolute truth
lethal heart
but even if he's only rank 122 boss damage
rigid mango
You tell me "but my sims say this insert random thing to prove you right"
rigid mango
Back to same deal
Atleast play the spec before arguing what's meta in an environment as volatile as M+ is
Where things don't follow 1 strict scenario that you can try to replicate in a sim but 99% of the time wont be what you did
vestal wren
i mean there seem to be no intresst in actual facts
so we dont rly have an discussion, what means this is kinda pointless
rigid mango
Yeah, but it's very hard to state facts when you can't actually get any facts
apart from "good rogues are using this method"
vestal wren
keep playing ttk and be happy 🙂
rigid mango
And you can use your good, but not always accurate sims to try to push your point
vestal wren
you seem to miss the point
lethal heart
simming m+ is never gonna be a thing because how do you take affixes into consideration
rigid mango
^
civic palm
Just play OTL :3
rigid mango
^
lethal heart
or very different pull patterns different groups take
civic palm
and not the "easy" spec.
stuck knoll
Looking at what will do the best damage isn't always the best course of action
sudden ocean
Heard someone was arguing ttk aint the best thing since sliced bread
stuck knoll
Because you don't always want the best damage
sudden ocean
If you need priority damage and adds dying fast, you need ttk
rigid mango
If we wnated strictly prio damage we'd run dd np ma
but we don't
we take the best 2nd thing without sacrificing too much
sudden ocean
it's the utility that comes with it
knowing that I can run my EB build and still have great prio damage with ttk
whereas if i ran EB dd because it's bis prio damage I'd look foolish and split my spec down the middle
vestal wren
also worth considering is that you can pick suboptimal traits and still play mdi/high keys
a lot of other factors are more important then your personal optimization
rigid mango
Seems irrelevant to the conversation
yes, other things are more important than swapping 2 traits
I'm not arguing TTK is the best at funneling of all traits in the game
It's the best at doing it without having such a huge drawback
It's not the best ST either, just the one with least drawbacks
A huge reason why outlaw is simpler to understand for m+ imo, is that everything just is a gain without a drawback really
Sin has pieces that move way too much, and there's so many things that can negativly impact you
sudden ocean
It's like packing for a camping trip, you can't take all the creature comforts so you take the necessity. EB is your tent, you know that you'll need it no matter what. SS is your axe or saw for a fire, you'll need it at specific times but it's useful for other things such as banging in tent poles and clearing brush. TTK is your sleeping bag, sure it may not be the most comfortable way to sleep, but dragging a bed out into the wilderness just won't do so you take the next best option because it fits most camping situations
Put it together you get a comfy trip without feeling like you're missing anything
rigid mango
Sacrifice a bit of X to gain a bit of Y without totally fucking yourself over
civic palm
sudden ocean
vestal wren
i would argue outlaw/sin are similar in complexity 😛
rigid mango
In complexity how
vestal wren
also i wont change your opinio, so i dont try that.
i stay critical in my thinking
civic palm
o _O
rigid mango
I'm just interested in what way you think they're similar in complexity
I don't disagree in some areas for sure
sudden ocean
Sin definitely isn't "do the ST rotation but you pressed a button beforehand"
vestal wren
i think outlaw is seen as a "no brainer" while assassination large is the same.
and both have ways to min/max just in different areas
sudden ocean
I'd argue that of any class in this game at a base level
rigid mango
I'd say decision making for sin is way harder
vestal wren
you partly have to make decisions/reactions faster as outlaw. So wouldn't entirely agree there
rigid mango
Reaction speed, sure, decisions? they're always the same really
Apart from slightly different RTB prio, you don't change much
vestal wren
both go hand in hand, esp. if you are gcd caped
lost horizon
Tbf the hardest part of outlaw isn't doing the rotation
It's managing bladeflurry through the dungeon
Sin definitely takes more effort during a pull though to get good value on your SS, maintain enough bleeds for energy and shit like that
small belfry
Guys what is that ttk? And i tough outlaw wasnt worth playing because of the nerf and can some one tell me where in dbm i can put combat log automatic ? xd
vestal wren
outlaw stays the best spec for m+ (at least for rogue)
rigid mango
Nah, all game for sure
vestal wren
ttk is a azerite trait, that may be overvalued by the community or not
lost horizon
Outlaw is definitely still worth, sin keeps up if not exceeds it's damage in some cases post nerf but outlaws just still got a ton going for it
small belfry
Ok ok ty, i tried to google ttk wow apears : time to kil xD
vestal wren
!abb
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/
vestal wren
we have a bot command to help there a bit
small belfry
Ty alot!! Im on queue for RAID um try to make live log to be more acurate
vestal wren
there is no diffrence in accuracy, only in timing.
live log uploads the log during fight, manual upload is after fights.
small belfry
I was also trying to play outlaw but i was also doing low dps so i changed Back for assassin, if there is no diference in accuracy I’m going for normal ty for the advices Im really happy to have found this discord
With you guys helping me I’m sure my dps wil go up
With 428ilvl doing 20k dps I’m scaring the tanks and healers on m+
@vestal wren sorry bother with this again I can’t find anything on dbm about the combat log
vestal wren
i dont use dbm so i cant help you there
tropic ocean
you need warcraft logs uploader from the wcl website
Then you enable ingame „advanced combat logging“
You open the WCL app, choose your wow directory login with ur acc start live log
Back ingame u type /combatlog in chat
Done
vestal wren
the question was about automating /combatlog with dbm ausgelebt
shut garnet
what is gcd
vestal wren
global cooldown
tropic ocean
You can use dbm for autologging - idk if its fixed bit earlier it only registered fight if you used proper pulltimer so i switched to addon loggerhead
bleak spoke
@ Persondoingcampinganalogy in a dungeon your first ss is by far the most important
sudden ocean
Then if you need an ss over everything else, treat the camping trip as a dangerous wilderness adventure where sometimes your axe is your most important thing because it defends you from wild animals
doubt not the camping analogy
bleak spoke
idk man the way i see it is completely based on what the traits give you with no analogy :^)
ss lets you reset your setup from pack to pack, eb gives you aoe punch and ttk gives you prio
sudden ocean
I put a lot of work into the camping analogy, I won't have it sullied
bleak spoke
sometimes you play np to push certain boss dps checks that will wipe you
small belfry
its better instal loggerhead for that?
bleak spoke
i have loggerhead and i like it
sudden ocean
bleak spoke
logging m+ isn't too useful though, especially not for sin
it's kinda hard to tell how many targets you're hitting + which ones are prio from the logs
small belfry
loggerhead wil have any conflcit with dbm?
bleak spoke
idk i use bigwigs
small belfry
oki ty «3
modest tendon
Fuu's dungeon slice comparison:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4eu7VFAfuBDjqPR3xUJQvj -3ssx3eb
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8eJ2R6sqanambJiW2PvZ3Y -222
800 dps increase for 3ss/3eb, is this a significant damage increase for this sim?
rigid mango
No clue, it's also based on s2 pull sizes not s3
So I wouldn't use it as a base for s3
modest tendon
:S
rigid mango
And that being said that 800 diff should be far smaller if you compare realistic s2 and s3 pull sizes
modest tendon
i even sim slightly higher for single target on 2/2/2
rigid mango
You have 3 dead traits for ST with 3/3
modest tendon
its still only by a few hundred again