i have two bonus roll coins, we are doing heroic tonight. im doing normal now... i have two crappy 400 lvl trinkets... should i spend a bonus roll on a normal ashvaine
#assassination
wet ruin
could it be some weird coral waiting as it seems to be just 3 sec before coral usage
arctic walrus
Save it
lean veldt
ty
placid mulch
If you aren’t being req to get some specific ilvl def save
stark oxide
If you mut rup mut on pull, what is the proper way to finish the opener? (assuming both muts crit)
I've been doing something like: garrote, raid essence, vendetta, TB, vanish env mut env.
Pretty sure thats mostly right but I'm not 100% on where the TB is supposed to go there
as it is I waste a CP on that TB
which feels bad and tells me its not optimal, but it makes getting 3 evenoms in the tb opener consistent so not sure
unborn leaf
maybe this is a dumb question but I finally just got font to go with my razor coral. In my limited pull attempts using it, it seems kind of awkward because font lines up with vendetta and then there is a cd before you can use coral. Can someone please tell me the proper way to play around those 2 trinkets in a single target scenario?
I checked the pins just not sure what is the best way to incorporate coral
vocal kelp
The pins explains how to use but just use coral whenever its off cd after font around 2:16 in the fight
Usuallly delay vendetta a few sec aswell
wet ruin
@stark oxide using tb on 5 cp is not a waste you are doing it the right way
lyric finch
so i just looted a razor coral, is there a place where i can find a guide for how to optimize it on different rogue specs?
ocean shadow
@lyric finch hey man
For sin if you're not using any other on-use trinkets pop it instantly when you caster your first mut ( it's off gcd ) and pop it with vandetta and instantly reapply it after buff fell of
If you're using font with it precast the font on -5 and use it instantly when 20s cd came off and for applying the buff font ( wait about 10sec ) go to burst window and on cd and reapply debuff again
@lyric finch with outlaw you want to preferably hold it until 20 stack debuff and pop it with ar
@lyric finch and for sub do the same but with sb
@lyric finch for M+ you usually want to use it like mfd to extend + expand the stack + timer but you initial cast will be on priority target to die because of the damage it does and when target dies you start chaining coral casts like mfd to hold the buff as much as possible
lyric finch
So for assass, since I will be applying it on opener, i won't be able to consume the stacks until my second vendetta?
distant lava
yes
lyric finch
thanks
vital raptor
when should i be using condensed life force during vendetta or after it ends?
sudden ocean
ornate gazelle
Can charge on council fight be solo soaked by a rogue in mythic?
sudden ocean
It's frost damage so yes
bleak spoke
going downstairs on zaqul do i take vop minor
arctic walrus
if you're going to kill both echos downstairs, yes
arctic walrus
mhm
bleak spoke
can i cds on pull
balmy quest
Is there any general consensus for what azerite pieces are the best for sin M+? Even if it were 4 pieces to allow you to switch between 3/2/1 and 2/2/2
I guess a better way of wording my question is which minor traits are best for M+, overwhelming power or unstable flames or something else?
because there are plenty of options for EB/TTK/SS
tiny finch
Sup guys! Ill start the benthic farming on the rogue right now. What would you guys recommend me to start with? I already got lucky with some TFs.
Im trying to make my mind on easier ones to get / dmg increase compared to the gear i have
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4wUir94jjH9gqrSULrZT8n
these are the drop chances based on pins
Belt: 50%
Wrists: 33% - (both damage effects are about equal in value)
Feet: 25%
Hands: 20%
shy dust
You’re simming with 0 loyal to the end allies
visual quartz
you have a SS on so its saying Subt
tiny finch
lemme remake the sims , please standby
timid cloud
How are you guys simming a lot of gem slots? Or are you just using top gear gems that're given to you? I'm getting too many combinations even with premium.
shy dust
Remake the sim with 4 allies I’d say and sim MA as an option to.
Though it’s up to you to see how many raid members you have who use loyal to the end
tiny finch
yeah i dont think i have ppl using it, ill have to check logs
is there a easier way to check it?
this is my last log
im trialing with a guild atm
check the mythic kills only
heroic have a bunch of ppl
tiny finch
Oh nice
cobalt pelican
who needs sims
cobalt pelican
this is the death buff
the paladin is the one who died but yeah
on your ashvane progress you had even more
cobalt pelican
but generally for benthic boots are the most valuable
there's a droptimizer section for benthic
but eh
shy dust
Make sure to sim using MA too
tiny finch
whats MA?
shy dust
Master assassin
placid mulch
@timid cloud how many sockets you have?
tiny finch
and does the section counts sockets? @cobalt pelican
tiny finch
OOf well remembered @shy dust
cobalt pelican
there's a dropdown to choose what socket option you want
tiny finch
ah yeah
cobalt pelican
and take into consideration the aberration belt is not 938dps on non aberration bosses
tiny finch
so should i go belt / boot / wrist?
placid mulch
The best way to sim a lot of sockets is only 2 gem types at a time
cobalt pelican
so boots are the highest dps upgrade per slot
but vims isn't far behind
so probably roll belt till vims socketed > wrists or boots
shy dust
2%
tiny finch
you guys are awesome
743 increase dps
ok ill start the hunt for benthic gear now
i used the rogue to fish benthic for my main
haha
shy dust
Helping people sim better one sim at a time
fleet anchor
Phantom ping 😮
tiny finch
yeah i made a mistake there, pinged all theorycrafters trying to ping rae
lmao
deleted it already
fleet anchor
Banned
tiny finch
PLS NO I HAVE NO FRIENDS
fleet anchor
Haha no worries, I'm always curious what the deleted pings are 😄
tiny finch
shhhhhh lewd stuff
;)
the best part of this @shy dust and @cobalt pelican is that i can go back to MA
i dont enjoy subterfuge gameplay overall outside pvp
cobalt pelican
if you end up playing loyal just make a mental note of the player names from the log links an djust like
double check they're in the raid/have it on before you begin
you'll kinda learn in time who uses it every raid and then you just know
but idk how rotatey your guild is
tiny finch
yeah. i just asked on their chat to make sure
and im gambling chest next week to see what i do get
chest / shoulders since gorak tuls is bis for outlaw as well
well see
whats even more cool
is that it fixed my pvp set as well
i had 2 Shrouded suffocation with the last gear setup
shy dust
You can sim for drops from residuum vendor too
ornate gazelle
Should I be using Coral first or Font first with second Vendetta?
tiny finch
this was the last post on FONT usage if im not mistaken
FONT USAGE
Updated SimC usage of Font+Coral for Assa. This change seemed to net solid 0.8-1% gains depending on build and the best I've found so far.
- Use font 4s precombat and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown.
- Then, with in-fight Font, the idea is to hold Vendetta(+Vanish) a bit to make it also profit from Coral. It's a gain to hold it until Coral is ready (hence the 20s condition above) but...
- If a Toxic Blade is coming up before Coral (which is the case in default fight timings) it's better to Vendetta right before TB and then use Coral ASAP.
- Summary of example timings: 4s precombat Font, Coral ASAP to start stacking.... Font when ready again at 1:56, Vendetta before next TB around 2:10, Coral into it at 2:16
@ornate gazelle
you can check more on #tc-updates
timid cloud
@placid mulch 8
balmy quest
Anyone have advice on what minor trait is best for M+? I know EB/TTK/SS for major rings but I'm not sure if the single target strength of overwhelming power is as significant in M+
stone crescent
is using the raid crit belt off azhara worth using over a benthic socketed belt? 911 crit every 2mins doesnt seem like a lot
cobalt pelican
considering it's split anyway, probably not
placid mulch
The easiest way I’ve found to break down sims bit by bit. Most pieces should be obvious and once you get the best pieces sorted put all your gems as the same then run a sim with two jewels at a time
Choosing two that arent what you gemmed everything
peak saffron
starting za'qul prog. any tips? is vision of perfection still the meme or is there newer, better strats?
balmy quest
echoing blades is the new meme
in all seriousness though yeah vision minor if you're going down so vendetta is up both times
sudden ocean
why cant i take vision major without the minor 
balmy quest
just don't press vendetta until it is 2 mins and it is the functional equivalent of not having the minor
placid mulch
Big brain strats
rigid mango
That's what you do tho 
near coyote
[Vision of Demise] any good?
rigid mango
Garbage.
near coyote
actually? cant sim atm
subtle tundra
straight up very bad
rigid mango
It's just never useable
strange python
Is there a channel I can post a link to my logs to have someone look at it and try to help me figure out what i can improve on?
subtle tundra
this one
strange python
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gyx3RdVprcmYCj8X#fight=23&type=damage-done&source=38 any help would be super appreciated!
rigid mango
If no one else does, I can probably do it this afternoon when I get off work.
strange python
Thank you so much!
balmy quest
What does Vision of Perfection minor reduce vendetta CD to?
rigid mango
Uhh, r1 it's like 1.8 or smth?
R2 is 1.6
Literal only use currently is if you're on echo duty on zaq
arctic walrus
There's not much that I can see being glaringly wrong
You can use some better azerite, poen's, and consider simming haste gems instead of crit
THe only rotational problem I saw was that you were a bit too eager to 2nd vendetta, and missed the opportunity to overlap it with 2nd guardian
strange python
I thought azerite powers werent affected by cds?
arctic walrus
They aren't
However, clf has a neat interaction where the 5% damage debuff has a 100% uptime for the duration of the active
you also get 5% haste
during those 30 seconds
strange python
what do you do for the opener on that fight? i only use TB, is there something else i should pop?
strange python
okay
rigid mango
Flexing hc logs
arctic walrus
rigid mango
Actually giga kill timer sheesh
arctic walrus
better than our 1:55s
sudden ocean
@simple meteor Does your logger come up with a different name for every single log
rigid mango
Ours does
simple meteor
sorry I am at work wasn't flexing just wanted r1 never got any :( i am casual doing hc only and some mythic pugs
yes our guild is called one word no spaces and they name each log difrent 
simple meteor
I'll try next week 
heady ridge
kinda following the trend of asking for advice with logs, I hope somebody can help me out too https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FGbzxTRXfnd8PcZC/#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=17 (sorry my raid leader uses spanish...) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2aX2GumGWmth9J7RobcMgp sim link for reference to what dps i think i should be doing...
rancid bobcat
is it worth the effort to multidot on queen's court
sudden ocean
Hello Kaite
heady ridge
I think you can maybe try to snipe a dot or two when the tanks switch taunts
sudden ocean
your guardian isn't used soon enough
heady ridge
but my core generally pulls them apart from each other so it would be a great uptime loss
sudden ocean
you used TB before vendetta for
your whole opener is pretty scuffed tbh
you didn't synch up your second vendetta with CLF 2 for maximum value, nor did you synch your coral with second CLF for value
heady ridge
am i supposed to wait that extra minute to do vendetta and clf together?
sudden ocean
it depends on the downtime of the Org fight, if your team is slow down the ramp they're usually pretty close to both being off cooldown together
Don't delay the Vendetta but if clf can overlap with it a second time all the better
Your fight was fast so I'd have used the second CLF with coral
But from your logs sometimes your team seems to take a while down the ramp
rigid mango
If your kill timer is between 3 and 4 min, you wait with vend and align it to clf
You lose no cast
heady ridge
that makes sense
sudden ocean
It's headmath, do the calc while you run down the ramp
heady ridge
and about the opener what should i be doing instead?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
And clf stuff should be in pins
heady ridge
yeah i was kinda wondering about where do i use the essence since the guide doesnt say that
oh well
rigid mango
Should be in pins
I mean, your opener is wrong as is
You need to look at the opener, learn that and then look at the clf stuff too
sudden ocean
None
strange python
So its useless?
sudden ocean
it's not useless, it's just not the preferred build anymore
MA provides better results with the right traits
strange python
Yea
rigid mango
It's just not as optimal as running MA
sudden ocean
SIm what you have against both MA and Subt, see what comes out on top
strange python
Sure
heady ridge
Oh, i just noticed I accidentally used toxic blade first Xd since orgozoa de-stealths on pull and i use tb and garrote on the same key in the stealth bars and the normal one
strange python
Then is Scent of Blood worth that SS?
heady ridge
yeah i guess its not the best log to check my opener
rigid mango
Scent is bad
rigid mango
Really bad.
strange python
Fuckk
strange python
Sure
rigid mango
Optimised way, you don't run them
strange python
Going back to 420 shoulders then 😄
rigid mango
But it's still a very potent build
strange python
With NP and DD
sudden ocean
As we both said, sim it and see
strange python
Yea
Ill sim it
1 more question
I should follow that opener when running MA
Without SS
Right
sudden ocean
Yes this is still the preferred opener
just don't forget to Muti twice before rupture if you dont get 4+ cp
strange python
Okay
sudden ocean
Good luck gamer
strange python
Thanks ❤
placid mulch
What do you guys do for m Gorgonzola build/gear wise? Stay st and go tunnel mode? M+ echoing build with blood? Something in between?
thin patio
I did same as Zine
placid mulch
Yeah we killed last week but rekill giving us issues
ember rover
You can try and get go full ST but with a Scent of Blood trait and put rupture on like 3-4 targets.
You need to put 5 bleeds out anyway.
Might aswell get some really good value from them.
placid mulch
Need some more add damage so I might just throw my eb trait on
ember rover
You dont need, but it's a ST gain to do so.
placid mulch
I was thinking putting my SS kit and going sub but I feel like that would end up terribad
Subterfuge not subtlety
rigid mango
Need 4 bleeds at those haste levels tho 
ember rover
W/e idea was to get scent as it's actually a ST gain for that fight.
Since you`ll have bleeds up almost the entirety of the fight.
rigid mango
Judging by lack of scent in highest boss damage parses, I've got a feeling that's wrong.
placid mulch
Like if I went 3 ttk/ 1 eb/ 1 ss/ 1 engi + subterfuge does that sound no bueno? Using blood 3
Maybe I just play my standard st and just get ruptures out on the adds and see how we go
Just don’t go full tunnel on the eyeball
whole ginkgo
Does anyone know if the Azerite trait Blood Rite's modifier "Killing an enemy refreshes the duration of this effect" is activated when a raid member lands the killing blow? Or does this function similarly to victory rush
rigid mango
Depends on what you're struggeling with
placid mulch
Well last week we did two outlaw and don’t this week
So basically two BF worth of passive cleave
placid mulch
I just get too mentally tilted to play OL anymore rtb kills me inside
Not a great excuse I know I just can’t stomach it
whole ginkgo
arguable zine
there's been like one huge outlaw parse since nerfs where ass has steadily climbed up to outlaw's top 10
neck and neck really, its more a question of how your raid wants your damage distribution between boss and adds
the top ass parse pre outlaw nerf was like 60k or soemthing and the dude was runnign triple DD with 0 EB and he did 42 DD's and 130 odd FoK's
rigid mango
Outlaw lost like, a bit of add damage but still blast boss whilst doing it.
Worse outlaws are more obvious.
whole ginkgo
true, but no longer better than sin, just a more static boss/add dps distribution
rigid mango
I raid with ronkles and he consistantly blasted on our reclears yday
Outlaw is still insane on that fight.
whole ginkgo
Yeah 100%, i mean 2 days ago there's a chinese lad pulling 87.5k, definitely holding the lead, just 😛
rigid mango
Hm?
Outlaw is still generally the better spec on orgo
Sin can just hard pad and blast meters if they want, but outlaw efficiently does damage
whole ginkgo
^ rip
vestal wren
problem is, you are depending a bit on add spawns/tanking and uptime
solid nova
R1 raid essence outsims Lucid R2 
full pond
my rogue is 428 and he are 31k damage gg xccc
strange python
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
compact parrot
Heya fellow rogues 🙂 I'm looking for someone who can maybe give me some advice about how to become better as assassination rogue. I feel like I'm doing a lot right (also Wowanalyzer does not have any suggestions other than some tb issue that I have^^), still my logs are always quite bad. I'd be grateful for any input!
Here is a log from our recent Ashvane Wipe:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y6xKJqBPDFMhLzyv#fight=24&type=summary&source=5
Fyi I am currently working on:
Benthic gear
Bote Rank 3
lethal heart
guess you wanna use your clf before vendetta?
idk about cyclotroni trinket usage
never played it myself
compact parrot
whats clf?`
compact parrot
Right thx
lethal heart
ashvane isnt necessarily good fight to look at your parses
because it just depends
some people had to use their cds after 1st shield breaks
some people use them on pull
some guilds 2 phase
some guilds 3 phase still
compact parrot
We're on three phases and I don't have to hold my CDs
lethal heart
ye i noticed
compact parrot
I thought it was good because of the length
Also I remembered that I thought I played well^^
lethal heart
i cant spot really huge mistakes
besides not using your essence before vendetta
and maybe cyclotronic trinket which im not aware myself how to use
your weapons are weak/your trinket is only 415 (azshara one)/no benthic as you mentioned
and so many people on logs have 65 now
so you lose out on free 2-3k dps there
also you swap to briny bubbles ideally you dont wanna do that for max dps
but yea its not like you get to choose that
compact parrot
I can talk to our RL, but normally I only spray them with FoK an do maybe a 1-2 cp rupture
lethal heart
compact parrot
I thought since i got the energy back when they die, its not that big a deal
lethal heart
you dont wanna refresh your rupture during tb window
its not really
getting people out of the bubbles asap
is more overall damage for your raid
so thats good what you're doing for sure
compact parrot
🙂
lethal heart
not sure if you wanna fok tho
you play triple dd
i'm not sure its worth using fok on 4 targets
lethal heart
its not ideal is it tho
rigid mango
It's what the APL does 
lethal heart
i think main goal is to get 3x envenoms during tb window
thats what was brought during bod
i remember apl doing vanish tb into straight azshara font channel
xd
compact parrot
what i do is one fok for the poison on all the bubbles, rupture 1 and by then normally leave them be or maybe dd and rupture 1 more
depends on their life
but as you said
small things add up
rigid mango
Yah main goal is 2-3 env in tb
But if you can't reapply before and it'll drop during tb
You refresh during tb
lethal heart
im pretty sure you wanna hold your 3rd clf cast till you get vendetta during bloodlust
its your last cast of that in the fight anyawy
so might aswell line it with your cd
compact parrot
ok
thx
a lot
i hate that no one else can loot agi daggers. BoD I still had heroic daggers, even when we were progressing on blockade 🙄
and you need 2!
lethal heart
main hand is the only important
offhand its more important to have socket in it
im pretty sure
415 socket offhand is better than 445 offhand with no socket
glass basin
And what for mh? Is the socket important?
glass basin
I have 430 mh with socket so is it better then the mythic with no socket?
lethal heart
doubt
440 socket vs 445 no socket might be close
but 430 vs 445 nto gonna be close probably
sullen pagoda
loud reef
Hey guys
Here i have the logs from yesterday's
i still improved a better but there are people with same ilv that does 10k more at least
I think i have 2 much crit
and not enough hate
haste
rose violet
Stats don’t make up for 10k difference
west maple
ur not using benthic gear @loud reef
mystic charm
How good is the Fathomstalker Wristwraps (pufferfish one 3 second to explosion) on high movement fights like mythic Zaqul ? Have a 455 bracer, sims for -100 on patchwerk, thinking these bracers might be better on high movement fights compared to the pufferfish benthic bracer.
tropic ocean
try to sim hectic add cleave maybe - don't know your comp but sin is mostly not brought to do the big add dmg, but more the echo dmg if you are get send down or to push the boss so i'm not sure how relevant your aoe is
royal lantern
its reaaally close for me right now
ember rover
It depends on fight, Tryan.
dense cedar
Is it a gain to hold CLF for third Vendetta if that's your last use of the essence for the fight?
ember rover
For pure ST, Iris is slightly better.
royal lantern
it was not a ''what should i take question'' it was a ''is that stuff simming so close for you too, or is it because of my stats''
ember rover
If you have any kind of add from which you can get some energy, conflict and strife is actually BiS.
Ye, it's simming super close for me too, but strife now is almost always better since almost all fights have some sort of add.
royal lantern
hmmm, seems like conflict and strive could be a bis 2nd minor for m+
interupting n stuff happens all the time
ember rover
It's not just interrupting, any ability triggers it.
royal lantern
crippling counts as a lost of controll effect?
ember rover
Your spells and abilities have a chance to increase your Versatility by 5 for 14 sec, stacking up to 8 times. Being the vicitim of a loss of control or movement impairing effect also grants a stack of Strife.
royal lantern
i mean the rank3 thing, cc and interupts give you 1stack+ double the effect for 5sec
ember rover
Any ability triggers it, doesn't have to be CC.
ember rover
That part is an extra, which it doesn't matter that much.
You'll be at max stacks most of the fights.
Unless you have severe downtime.
royal lantern
idk, gaining 100%more sounds good, you can controll it
ember rover
I don't believe the sims account for that.
twilit hollow
Except why would u use conflict and strife as a major
ember rover
Oh ye, and that's for major power only.
tall narwhal
ember rover
Ye.
ember rover
Strife is super close to Iris and Flame.
On pure ST, if you got anything that you can funnel energy from, Strife actually is better.
You can see that for fights like Queen's Court, strife is actually better than the ST options.
onyx venture
When I have an explosive orb (M+ affix) targeted, will FoK damage it?
dark crag
No
errant shadow
you guys got a dps increase when started pooling?
rigid mango
If you're not overcapping and you havr bleeds up, you're not losing any potential damage.
errant shadow
is pooling from 20-30 to 70-80 okay?
shy dust
As long as you’re not overcapping or letting bleeds fall off it’s fine
rigid mango
Like I said, you can literally take hands off keyboard
If you're not overcapping energy and dots are up
You do not need to press something every GCD
young portal
Queens Court for the repeat mechanic. I know about kick and tricks, is there anything else to use to slip between muts to combat being interrupted?
Silenced* not interrupted
rigid mango
Evasion, cloak
shy dust
Shadowstep too
rigid mango
Detection
young portal
Oh, defensive work too?
rigid mango
If you go to your order hall and purchase it, you can literally use it every single one I think
vestal wren
there is a list pinned in #wow-general
young portal
Ah, cheers
dark crag
I replace fok with detection at qc. Mut detec mut
sudden schooner
dark crag
I mean my keybind
stiff vapor
hello guys, I'm playing assa in raid but I'm having a really hard time dealing whit multi add rotation, I will leave my last log of radiance if anyone can give me a suggestion about the phase 2 I would really like it
dark crag
Run to the add, focus the big add, kill the big add, repeat until boss is dead
stiff vapor
what about the fan of knife
dark crag
Do you have dd traits?
stiff vapor
double dose? yes
dark crag
How long are the small adds alive?
stiff vapor
well quite long isn't a zerg we are in progress, was the first kill so far
like 40sec 1 min
dark crag
If you get multiple small adds spawns at the same time you can use fok, but if it is just 1 wave, rupture a few and st the big add
stiff vapor
ok thanks, maybe I was far too focussed spamming my fan of knife whitout any trait and dealing 0 damage so far
dark crag
As assa rogue your job is singletarget
stiff vapor
thanks
dark crag
You need too specific traits for aoe, if small adds give your raid trouble you can spec outlaw
errant shadow
ty @rigid mango @shy dust 😄 ill try
indigo loom
Hello guys, i play assa in some raid encounter and i feel like i can do a lot more. when i sim myself is kinda low and logs are really bad. here's my quicksim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ePTdYc1uHKbTVd2GvfCeZz and here's the 1st boss in myth https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7dhM8GjnbFgwkAJz#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=17 now i have 29 crit and 26 haste, but again, sim is kinda low
rigid mango
Does the engi trait on helm really outsim 2nd NP?
indigo loom
actually the trait on helm outsim 3 dd and inkpod.
solid nova
Your TB windows are pretty bad
And you're not TBing on CD
Not sure what this is either
Plenty of random mistakes
rigid mango
Your opener is in the wrong order
solid nova
Your 2nd pot is used with nothing
Your opener is wrong
You're getting on average 1 envenom for every TB window
Sometimes none
You PK alot
rigid mango
indigo loom
so, with tb how much envenom i should do? and for the opener
solid nova
You have a lot of downtime
rigid mango
Each TB window should have 2+ envenoms in it.
solid nova
Stuff like this is just 
indigo loom
that is maybe when i had to share damage
cause i see a feint
but yes
tb wasted
so my opener is good, exept i have to do essence before tb. but why tb after vanish? im wasting the master assassin proc like this or not?
rigid mango
No, your opener isn't good
It's wrong
Mut
Rup
Mut
Garrote
CLF
Vend
Vanish
TB
Envenom
Mut 4+
Envenom
etc
solid nova
10 TB windows and only 2 of them had 2 or more envenoms in them
fair chunk of damage wasted
Poison knifing too much
A lot of downtime
rigid mango
Can't believe I'm typing this the 4th(?) time today
indigo loom
ok so tb is kinda wasted
rigid mango
If you have bleeds up, and are not overcapping you're not losing damage
You nearly never cast pk
indigo loom
ok perfect
so i have to optimize the tb window, and i dont have to use pk. i use it when im far, for the 1st boss for exemple when she cast barrage
and why i have to use tb after vanish? is not a waste of master assassin?
rigid mango
I hope you're not getting your 5th CP with PK, and playing around that
turbid osprey
Was about to ask, is it not better to env mut env in the ma window or can you get all 4 casts in
rigid mango
I hope you know you finish at 4+, not 5
indigo loom
no man, that never
rigid mango
TB'ing or envenoming out of stealth is a very minor dps loss/gain anyways
Either works
rigid mango
idd
tropic ocean
i dont think i ever use pk
Unless im forced away from boss to keep dp on him
but even that is very rare
indigo loom
btw thanks a lot guys
ember rover
Conflict.
royal lantern
all 3 seems too be good
ember rover
Conflict is actually ubergood.
royal lantern
''sigh'' ofc all 2 pvp essences are good
not like i did enough with blood allready
🤢 minigame mode
cobalt pelican
i'd play pp3 if i had it
quasi ledge
Conflict is a 100 times easier to get than Blood, at least
cobalt pelican
just some random stuff re your gear @indigo loom at a glance, use your 415 ring over your 445 ring (sim to check but i'm 99% sure it's better), get a 120 agility gem too
those are both super easy swaps
cobalt pelican
i don't think there's any content where you can't replace conflict for something else so
if you don't want to get rank 3 probably just don't use it
shy dust
Rank 3 is pretty easy to get
quasi ledge
It's actually easier to just get rank 2 than only get rank 1
shy dust
Just takes a few weeks
ember rover
Rank 3 is a big boost.
honest heath
need to fill up conquest bar each week right with arena?
quasi ledge
4 weeks if you're 1.6k, all together
ember rover
No need to fill up conquest, just do an arena win per week.
honest heath
oh nice
ember rover
You fill up conquest anyway.
Since you do Nazjatar battle daily, that almost fills it up by itself.
honest heath
is naz battle on a timer?
ember rover
Every 3 hours server time, starting with 9AM
honest heath
good to know! I had always wondered when I get on for it
quasi ledge
Get your rating in 2s and do 1 3s win a day along with Naz supply whenever you're there each day
Have to at least do 1 win in 2s though to "activate" whatever rating you have though whether it's 1.6 or 1.8 etc
honest heath
right
royal lantern
eh, i get rank 3 conflict in 2 weeks from now sooo.....its fine
rigid mango
Sim it
errant shadow
can i sim somehow if i dont have that gem? but to sim like i have?
rigid mango
Raidbots, yeah
subtle tundra
what 2nd minor is good for m+?"
ill get 65 tomorrow
should i start getting conflic and strife or is unbound force better?
rigid mango
Strife
subtle tundra
fuck
balmy stump
is there anyway i can check how good benthic upgrade would be ?
all i see is azerite benthics in droptemizer
balmy stump
not sure if i should upgrade my 420 socket benthic gloves to 425 or just start upgrading other stuff
rigid mango
That's what it looks like, for me
balmy stump
sec ill try again
rigid mango
Is it becuase it's on 430?
bright smelt
So just unlocked neck lvl 65 and 3rd essence slot, but can't really decide what to use for m+ since I don't really trust the sims for dungeon slice when it comes to sin
choice basically comes down to PP or Conflict N Strife
pp for just aoe dmg and conflict for the versa
civic palm
Both are pretty good.
bright smelt
will go with PP for now I think, considering I only have conflict rank 2 as of yet
civic palm
Sounds like a plan 👍
arctic walrus
C&S will probably be more...versatile, as it provides a nice defensive aspect as well
shy dust
It’s like a 2% or so DR right
arctic walrus
Off the top of my head I think it gives you 7% vers? So yeah around 3-4%, it might be more
proven talon
what are people simming these days
rigid mango
47-48k, nutty sims were at 50 ish pre 65
proven talon
fucking benthic
rigid mango
vestal wren
ye benthic is so nice 🙂
proven talon
"nice"
would rather cut my balls off with a rusty spoon than farm 7 alts worth of manapearls every day
north star
is unbridled fury always better than focused resolve?
rigid mango
Yep.
sour bloom
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic walrus
53k? Wow that's so high who's this good at the class? 
sudden ocean
Would only use it for .Org M
arctic walrus
Zaqul and m+
proven talon
i mean im using bote fr zaqul too unquestionably
sudden ocean
Unless your guild is letting you pad relentlessly
Yeah zaq too
Keep forgetting about that boss
verbal knot
I mean I sim at 46k sub 65 neck and only have one benthic piece because RNG fragging hates me so 50k is absolutely reasonable.
And I don't have font, that's like a 1.2k boost by itself
hoary crown
What second minor should I use in m+ ? Using blood in major, lucid dreams in first minor
arctic walrus
Probably C&S
marble elm
I think blood is good for aszhara too
If your add damage is bad you can use it to help with them and it will resync with your next vendetta and you get 2 in p4
signal salmon
Is it a good idea to use coral in m+
arctic walrus
Yeah blood is viable on Azshara
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
rigid mango
^
bleak spoke
barren raft
Question: How is best to use the coral on a ST Boss in a raid?
When do i reactivate it?
aligning it always with vendetta or at certain stacks and align it with toxic blade?
bleak spoke
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
last ingot
is it worth wearing a 435 helm to get 2-2-2 for m+, or wear 450 helm and get 2 ttk, 2eb,1ss,1np?
balmy stump
any idea how to sim the aberration benthic gear against an aberattion like orgo or zaq?
@last ingot sim
quick solar
@clever shadow raidbots has an option for it at the bottom of the page
balmy stump
ty
wet ruin
is there a certain stacks for the coral that it would be worth using at, asking specifically for ashvane as I am saving cooldowns for when shield is down, is it worth using it for the first vendetta then or just save it and let it stack for the second one
quick solar
@wet ruin just depends, are you two tanking or three? are you using an inkpod?
quick solar
two tanks only does two phases, much shorter fight
3 tanks + font you will want to use your coral on each of your vendettas and then re-apply after
wet ruin
okay, but I still don't see why it matter that the fight is shorter 😄
honest needle
I dont have a 65 neck but is there a way to sim the 3rd minor as if i do have it to see how much the dps difference would b
wet ruin
I will get a second vendetta either way
quick solar
when you two phase you have to hold CD's for her actual HP, entire fight is only ~4.30 long, unlikely to get two 'dettas
shy geode
@honest needle change the neck ilvl in the copied /simc you can find it by ctrl+f and then your neck ilvl.
wet ruin
I mean if you don't get 2 vendettas in 4.30 fight you might be doing something wrong imo
quick solar
you dont get to use vendetta on pull, you have to wait until her shield breaks
wet ruin
yes, but its not a 2 minute wait
its 1 min at most
then you would have it around 3 min mark
quick solar
mmm, yeah you're right
willow mulch
i think the real answer lays within logs of the fight. who parsed highest? what did they do?
vestal wren
parses are not the right way to measure skill
logs are the best way to evaluate if you play right
wet ruin
for example you can look top 10 or top 100 even on first boss
more than one of them are doing things like
vestal wren
together with class knowlage what you can get by either reading the guide or theoriecrafting the spec
arctic walrus
logs are helpful if you know how to read them
vestal wren
every tool is as usefull as the knowlage of the person using it
wet ruin
kill times matter the most in doing good logs imo
willow mulch
yea see i used to parse top 98% on every herioc boss. not much of an accomplishment but personally i always found "how to play" by a combo of things. looking at top players and what they do on the fight is def a good place to answer a question like how many vendettas to use and whjen
but that was just my method
to each their own
wet ruin
like I said top 10 rogues at least 5 of them are doing stupid things, yet they get top 10 just because of kill timers, lucky crits, procs etc.
willow mulch
yea i feel that
vestal wren
the thing is
willow mulch
def cant get info from people cheesing
or giving their one dps their shoit at a parse
vestal wren
even if a lot of the top logs played worse they still would be 100%tile or rly high
this does not mean they paly bad or good
quasi pewter
I kinda doubt that half of top 10 parses are playing awful and are just lucky lmao
vestal wren
just that there are constraints that not everyone has that let you cheese logs to the point
arctic walrus
the difference between top 10 is luck imo yea
wet ruin
@quasi pewter check it
willow mulch
yea but in the end the logs show it all so you can see that they let someone cheese. but thats back to knowing how to read logs
vestal wren
looking at others is always a good way, just dont blindly folow what they do.
arctic walrus
just because you see a log with someone switching around 1 or 2 spells doesn't mean they don't know anything about the class
nor should you take that as a sign of better play
arctic walrus
no?
willow mulch
meh, taking things at face value. "he used a knife throw here" well he was out of range loll. but meh i dont even play wow anymore. just wanted to stir the pot. enjoy classic blokes
wet ruin
rank 11
later you can also see tb - > font channel 2 sec after
second vanish was also scuffed
arctic walrus
Imagine basing an entire arguement over 1 pull
If you check his previous logs, he has never repeated that mistake
Yes, it's a mistake
wet ruin
no no
what I mean is looking at logs might not be the best way to see what to do
and that kill timers are more important than pretty much anything
arctic walrus
Because you don't just look at A log
quasi pewter
I mean if ur gonna look at 1 log only yea
wet ruin
its not only one, I didn't look at them 10 min ago, it was at one point
the main point was that kill times and being lucky matter more for ranking
strange python
What essence to run in EP SINGLE TARGET RAID
quick solar
I would sim your essences, but most likely CLF -> lucid
-> focused energy if you have 3
scarlet sequoia
echo cargo
Flame sims -20 dps for me compared to essence so- it could be personal choice too if you have 3.
turbid osprey
ive been mut rup mut garrote the fish
idk if its even worth putting bleeds up though
turbid osprey
yeah nah
arctic walrus
Font prepull though
turbid osprey
strange python
bleeds should be ok
turbid osprey
tbf i do remember dropping bleeds at some point during that
probably why i did worse
strange python
save cbs for the switch
last ingot
is it worth wearing a 435 helm to get 2-2-2 for m+, or wear 450 helm and get 2 ttk, 2eb,1ss,1np?
turbid osprey
fuck sake
farm finished, still no dagger
ill be using this 415 opulence dagger forever D:
royal lantern
''laughs in 415 cloak i use for 7months now''
shut garnet
yo, how do most of you guys open on azshara fight? ive been parsing quite low on that for a bit now and was just wondering for some tips if possible^^ logs here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7jK69vTBCpZhfPNd#fight=2&type=casts&start=1042526&end=1430541&source=19&view=timeline
arctic walrus
You didn't get bleeds up on both before starting cds. You fan way too much. You need to either commit to letting coral stack on azshara, or using it on tidemistresses/myrmidons in p2, you kept pulling and reapplying
And why is your higher ilvl weapon in your OH
pliant snow
Is 2ttk/2dd/2np any good for st?
hushed arrow
That seems pretty good @pliant snow
arctic walrus
It's not horrible by any means, but there's better combinations
hushed arrow
^
pliant snow
@hushed arrow thanks :)
shut garnet
and when azshara spawns myrmidon
should i just dot him, a siren and azshara and just spam TB envenoms on her?
obvs full zerg
shut garnet
no fok even when devoted spawn?
i usually have enough time to do fok envenom fok envenom on azshara
and thats a lot more dps than just dd envenom dd envenom
dark crag
With dd traits you fok at around +5 or 6+ targets
strange python
oO
dark crag
With eb traits you fok at 2
Dd is anti fok
Every fok with dd traits renders your azerites useless
Like you had no trait at all
If you progress azshara ss traits with supterfuge could be an option. Guilds who farm azshara tend to ignore the tidemistress entirely or kill just 1
arctic walrus
You can fok during the naga spawn
but what you did wrong there was multi dot ruptures
don't do that, just fok and env
shut garnet
it wasnt a progress azshara lmao XDD but yeah tyvm, i was considering playing 2eb 2ttk and subterfuge for the fight
and for orgozoa perhaps?
shut garnet
and zaqul?
had this https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jK12JR3FQcPT8AWx#fight=31&type=damage-done earlier but felt like i couldve done a lot more with better traits
dark crag
I guess you are the 2nd rogue
shut garnet
hm?
midnight flower
🤣
dark crag
The other rogue had flame
wet ruin
can someone link the assassination APL
arctic walrus
Oh, the first log you had maiev selected so I thought thatw as you
dark crag
Is flame r3?
dark crag
Get lucid r3 asap
Takes 5 min a day for 3 quests. I recommend the tank guy, the quests are fast
Like stomp geysirs
dark crag
Probably less
With the next haste/x socket ring i will gem full crit
Still rocking bod stuff
wet ruin
how do I tell the APL to use coral just before 30%?
rigid mango
Equip inkpod should work
wet ruin
nah, its using it every vendetta
rigid mango
Then editing the APL is what you're gonna have to do
wet ruin
I did just change item id for inkpod cuz I don't have it, but I don't think that should be the problem
ye ye the APL
was hoping someone has done it already and I wouldn't have to figure it out myself
rigid mango
It used to be standard in the apl early in 8.2, best bet is finding that and copying that line
Sounds easiest anyways
shut garnet
whats apl
wet ruin
can't see anything related to inkpod in the apl for that matter, unless the name is completely different
apl - action priority list
dark crag
Inkpod is passive, the name of the debuff is different i think
wet ruin
found it in the outlaw alp
debuff.conductive_ink_debuff
its this one
but in assassination one the only thing that has ink in it is trinket
steep obsidian
the only interaction you'd have with inkpod is if you want to game a crit with coral
wet ruin
turns out for assassination using coral for inkpod is dps loss
steep obsidian
its extremely strong for ahsvane
steep obsidian
true
wet ruin
though, I don't know why but assassin apl seems weird as fuck
steep obsidian
we have the last 3 weeks first kill wasnt tho
wet ruin
like using vanish outside vendetta for some reason
wet ruin
depends on how shit your guild is, like mine for example people are doing about 30k dps....
shut garnet
XDD
wet ruin
like vanish in second vendetta was late, but I guess that is fine as it was within vendeta
but the vanish around 4 min was outside vendetta completely, or like 1 sec in it
verbal knot
I read someone say earlier that their guild had to do about 780k to two phase it
echo cargo
2 phase imo has more to do with your comp than everyones sim dps
if you have like 5 dhs you're probably just fucked lmao
verbal knot
I mean I'm pretty sure you need to hit a specific mathematic number
shut garnet
yeah i dont think comps matter as long as everyone is around 42k right?
verbal knot
I haven't done it myself so I'm no expert, but if you aren't hitting those certain numbers you won't kill her in time, right?
echo cargo
I mean yeah, you need X amount of dps when the shield is down
It's just a lot easier if you have specs that have two sets of CDs for both shields and burst high (like Sin)
shut garnet
or firemages
echo cargo
Also on our reclears we started having a holy priest with pvp essence
Holy dps increase lol
void narwhal
/wa
placid mulch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
I have been SUMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONED
quick solar
leeching poison on Mythic Za'qul, required? or can you manage without it?
arctic walrus
if you're going down it's required
lone junco
@sand otter you can read the sim html apl action list.
sand otter
ok thanks!
stark oxide
ravenholdt.net has updated openers based on what you are running.
You can also easily see what your sim is doing by doing a quicksim on raidbots and scrolling down to the Sample Ability Log.
stark oxide
Just be aware that your opener on a sim log will vary a little based on when things crit.
Leeching poison + delirium = fun fight
placid mulch
Not if it means you lose a vendetta in a fight
strange python
Also, I feel so resource starved doing CLF major, focusing iris minor and low haste. I feel starved not running lucid
placid mulch
Need more haste
strange python
I know to rely on sims, but man it doesn't feel like a dps increase sitting there and sometimes only getting one enven in TB window
placid mulch
Are you simming higher with iris?
strange python
It's telling me iris as minor is better for me
placid mulch
Haste must be real low then
placid mulch
Like gear haste value is low enough to make the haste from iris fix things
placid mulch
Like lucid and iris are both good don’t get me wrong, but until you have 65 lucid felt so much more smooth
I’d rather take a 200 dps loss to play lucid minor personally
Do you have a link to a sim?
strange python
yeah, no refund gameplay feels so slow
doing one rn
with mostly haste gear in
even 415s
I can link you my simc and you can look at my gear too
placid mulch
Lucid should favour haste and crit
strange python
https://pastebin.com/jgAeiwQc here's my simc
yup still CLF and iris minot
minor
arctic walrus
Hold up
iris minor is when you have 2nd minor
it's not a replacement for lucid
you never replace lucid
strange python
not what my sim wants me to do
I've heard you should always golucid, but then people also say to always trust your sims
"sim your character"
strange python
Yeah, I don't do wow chores lol
balmy quest
iris minor can lose value if you need to target switch, so keep that in mind
"chore" dude just get lucid rank 3 or you're gimped
balmy quest
but an 800 dps upgrade at rank 3, which is quite a lot
sand otter
where do you see the raw output of the sim to see your opening rotation?
after CDs im averaging 28k on Za'quil im trying to get better
arctic walrus
quick sim shows you ability log
sand otter
ooooo thanks
sand otter
working on that totmorw along with upgrading benthic boots
strange python
Hello, what is the best potion for Mythic+ AOE?
cobalt pelican
i don't think you can really consider 5 mins of time investment every 4 days a chore at this point
woeful minnow
wait how is it every 4 days
sand otter
yeah im confused too
cobalt pelican
you don't have to have done follower dailies every day to have lucid 3 by this point in the tier
marble elm
lucid rank 3 was obtainable like
the day of heroic release
if you were doing dailies each day
placid mulch
Yeah I actually couldn’t remember how I got it it’s been too long
Whether it was rep or followers
echo void
hey all, are these stats good for sin?
Also how do i Simm my gear for the best traits?
echo void
for m+? what do i want it at? should i use Crit enchants for rings instead of Haste?
rigid mango
Barely any haste and way more crit, yeah
arctic walrus
what are you doing exactly
echo void
So i used to play Sin, but instead swapped to outlaw, Dislike outlaw a lot, so im going back to Sin, im trying to Sim my gear for the best azerite traits, im in the Top Gear section of Raidbots, but it isnt showing me what to use
strange python
just hit 65 but sims seem a bit odd, changed 6 essences and did the sims but they all come back within 10 dps ?
rigid mango
@echo void simming m+ for sin'll probably just end up confusing you
arctic walrus
link the sim dan
echo void
yeah I think it already has lol
rigid mango
strange python
well that explains that!
last ingot
is it worth wearing a 435 helm to get 2-2-2 for m+, or should i wear the 450 helm and get 2eb 2ttk 1np 1ss?