Do you zine!!
#assassination
obtuse ruin
rigid mango
This isn't the place to discuss this, neither have I personally attacked you in anyway
sudden ocean
Conversation over.
rigid mango
What he said.
ripe nimbus
But I just got here
solid nova
@ripe nimbus Turn around then
vivid hill
What are your guys thoughts above saving for irontide specific or just gambling
young portal
Undulating tides, am I right in thinking on paper this is a good trait. But in reality it's just shit?
sudden ocean
yes
young portal
Kk, cheers
sour sigil
trust the sims Kappa
mighty elm
can we keep it goin pls 🍿
solid nova
I'm not going to repeat it again @mighty elm
mighty elm
solid nova
Keep the shit out of the spec channels
bleak spoke
@vivid hill what do you need it for
Whatever it is, Id personally gamble but that’s probably because I have a problem, not because it’s the right choice 
teal hatch
How does the droptimizer decide which azerite trait build to go with ?
rigid mango
Takes the highest simming one
teal hatch
But does it combine them all together based on the loot on ep or is it based out of my current gear
Is it 3x double dose i was suppose to aim for or 3x nothing personal dont rememer
formal idol
I’m currently running 2x DD 2x NP 2x SS. Next week I can buy my last 445 Azerite chest piece random chest piece, I currently have DD and SS on chest. I could save 200K TR for the DD/NP chest or I could reroll my helmet (NP/SS) and hope for a DD helm. Can I get some advice? My ideal build is 3 DD 2 NP 1 SS but don’t mind non SS builds.
teal hatch
What triats are bis then
for hc ep raiding-> aiming for mythic
sorry if these are stupid questions im new to rogue
formal idol
Mythic
rigid mango
Yeah but like, how far in
formal idol
I’m on ashvane but guild is in Gorgonzola
rigid mango
2 dd 1 ttk np bbi loyal 3 OP
tawdry token
should i pick nt on gorak ?
rigid mango
Or 3 dd 1 ttk np bbi 3 OP
teal hatch
whats goraks ?
rigid mango
Gorak tuls mantle
teal hatch
ah
formal idol
I do have 445 goraks
teal hatch
from waycrest
rigid mango
It's BiS for any raiding stuffs
generally, if your raid has enough loyal to the end users blackwater is the best chest
If they don't, cephalohide is better
Zaq helm is always BiS, there are others that are also good, like 1st boss helm, slithering loa and the engineering one
tawdry token
anyone can help me pls
teal hatch
geting an azerite piece from weekly is near imposible to me, never goten one so far
formal idol
They do have some people using it on ashvane. I’ve been considering picking up eng just for the helm.
formal idol
Thank you for the help zine - really useful stuff. Should help me make my decision
tawdry token
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mPoC4ZQZDB9mUBtiLyjTJw
should i pick np on gorak ?
rigid mango
I think the heroic zaqul helm is very close to the engineering one anyways
wintry mica
Does anyone know why starting combat on Orgozoa unstealths?
rigid mango
@tawdry token personal pref, it's a dps loss but it's also 100% sure damage each time, I'd possibly run NP on prog but I'd swap to BBI for reclears
teal hatch
ashvane razor coral or asharas font power ?
teal hatch
but i cant use 2 on use trinkets can i?
wintry mica
Yea you can stagger them by 20 sec
So the first 10 sec of coral will still have the font of power buff
rigid mango
You can, it works just fine izi
wintry mica
It’s just a bit of a pain but definitely worth using both
rigid mango
If you read the paragraph in #tc-updates about it you should get the hang of it
tawdry token
@rigid mango ty for ur opinion
rigid mango
takes a bit of learning and yeah, is a bit of a pain, but it's for sure worth it
wintry mica
I just wish they hadn’t changed font to always unstealth, makes it real annoying when someone pulls at 1 sec on the pull timer
rigid mango
Meh, I just channel as soon as 6 becomes 5
on pull timer, and I have a graceperiod window where all is good and no boomy can fuck me over (:
left moth
Hey guys i have a question, last week i bought a 445 azerite piece and obv. hoped for "Gorak Tul's Mantle", instead i got the worst one possible and now im debatin if its worth buying 430 pieces instead to make sure i get it?
rigid mango
Sorta depends what you do each week
Do you raid mythic/what keys do you do each week
wintry mica
Yea you still get the occasional early pull that screws up pre-pot. I’ve started channeling it a lot earlier on some fights to make it line up better with mechanics
short jacinth
Hold for mythic piece
rigid mango
THen you should probs save and RNG again
sudden ocean
rigid mango
There's good enough pieces
sudden ocean
why does this always happen to me
scarlet sequoia
sudden ocean
I can hit 51k with a font and my vims when I actually put the pearls into it
scarlet sequoia
wintry mica
Is force multiplier not as good as originally thought? I’ve seen more people using double navigation lately
rigid mango
Raz'll hit 54k before I hit 51k
last ingot
How many hours does it take to farm out lvl 65 from 64 by islands (Appr.)
rigid mango
sudden ocean
Uhh its 84k for 65 now right
rigid mango
Sounds about right
sudden ocean
yeah 8-10 hours
sudden ocean
this week is a fantastic week for islands though
rigid mango
+-
scarlet sequoia
crit dmg item is quite pog
sudden ocean
Yeah when I riced 65 today we had a dh with 3 bote
could clear anything in a single eyebeam
rigid mango
Zoinks
I'll have to run some dungeons this week then
Sorry, islands, freudian slip
static glacier
any pieces with SS + EB?
robust light
im late to the party but i finally got a razor coral, whens best to use it?
sudden ocean
on pull then with every vendetta
rigid mango
I'd be running 3 eb for sure
sudden ocean
Yeah I was running um
sudden ocean
3 eb, 1 bloodrite, 2 ttk
wintry mica
Is anyone elses coral super inconsistent on how many stacks you can get between each vendetta?
sudden ocean
blood rite has hundred percent uptime it's insane
rigid mango
Yeah that's a hard 
from me dawg
sudden ocean
but then I got Gorak second try
Next week I'm going to get slithering loa first try and retire to the country side
rigid mango
smh goraks people
ember rover
What's wrong with Goraks?
rigid mango
That I don't have it.
sudden ocean
There's nothing wrong with goraks, that's whats wrong with goraks
rigid mango
sudden ocean
It's perfect and we hate that
rigid mango
I'm debating saving for it, that's how desperate I am
sudden ocean
I would, everything from raid is hot garbo
sudden ocean
what are you on in prog
rigid mango
I'm not doing prog atm (:
rigid mango
I'll probs rejoin prog on QC this week
sudden ocean
I mean if you already have a H zaqattack helm and a fish chest what else is there to go for
might as well save
rigid mango
I have slithering loa 
cobalt pelican
goraks is weak
sudden ocean
cobalt pelican
since they buffed blood rite sanguine monstrosity is bis
will be pushed to sim later today
cobalt pelican
NO
rigid mango
No swearing in spec channels
sudden ocean
Me quickly going to sim sang monst in case he wasn't lying
Hmm slithering loa is all I need, maybe I should save too
teal hatch
is there a quick way to know how many loyal to the end users there is in the raid?
without actually askinge veryone
sudden ocean
download ERT
vagrant tapir
Mythic ashvane advise
sudden ocean
and use the raid inspect feature
sudden ocean
drop a rupture on them for juicy energy returns
teal hatch
is that a addon?
sudden ocean
yes, Exorsus Raid Tools
vagrant tapir
But as far as damaging the bubbles for the sake of killing them
Should you be mutilating the bubbles ever?
sudden ocean
If there's 3 I'd fok them, if not I'd mutilate them
you should tell your raid lead that it's a dps loss for you to focus down bubbles, if your comp allows for it
better off taking the energy stim and using it to pump the boss imo
rigid mango
You're not there to do bubble damage
teal hatch
ok i got it della, then what ?
sudden ocean
open it up there's a "Raid Inspect" featurer
rigid mango
Like dellavoid said, use it to funnel envenoms
sudden ocean
then click traits or azerite traits
rigid mango
You don't want to be spending resources on killing them, that's not your job as a sin rogue
sudden ocean
it'll show you who is using what, including essences
Yeah Laxx, if your team needs you focussing down bubbles as Sin they have bigger problems than what their rogues are doing with their time
rigid mango
I'd say go outlaw for bubble damage, but post nerf bubble damage is sad 
faint harness
sudden ocean
Where did you find it first of all
dark crag
Thousands of cp with 1 fok
cobalt pelican
just ptr things
vagrant tapir
@rigid mango Would you ever envenom the bubbles?
rigid mango
Nope
sudden ocean
Never
vagrant tapir
Yeah
vagrant tapir
Raid is trying to argue against that
teal hatch
thank you @sudden ocean is there a way to quickly sort out the ones having loyal to the end? kinda hard to find
sullen pagoda
sudden ocean
Uhhh I haven't found that in the feature list
usually I just do a headcount on raid night
sudden ocean
your team should really be using loyal because it's so good for so many classes
teal hatch
ok ty tho didnt know about exorsus tho
sudden ocean
Just run down the list, its a unique icon
tribal marlin
install Exorsus raid tools
rigid mango
That sarcasm was directed towards dellavoid 
tribal marlin
go raid inspect, click azerite
rigid mango
Mods dislike it
sudden ocean
Did you set your sim to account for 4 loyal to the end users
It's in the feature set down the bottom
sudden ocean
Undulating tides has a 100% option 
rigid mango
Yeah I don't touch it because I never sim UT
sudden ocean
One day I'm gonna take 3 UT and get my key resto druid to pocket me through a heroic run
see what I can do
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
past harbor
best head engineering trait?
sudden ocean
I think it gives haste or something
red plaza
It enlarges or shrinks the world
rigid mango
Sounds like the correct one
untold current
haste or mainstat depending on the proc
sudden ocean
Man looking through bloodmallet there's so many traits that i haven't even seen before
Plague damage is in the game still apparently? outside of DKs
rigid mango
Most of them are super niche ones that you'll never get at high ilvl pieces
dark crag
Maybe hc darkshore wf
sudden ocean
Yeah only place I could think of a plague themed trait being relevant
past harbor
I see ppl running 3xSS in m+ while others only run 1, what should i do?
rigid mango
Depends on what traits you have apart from those
junior flume
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tYpLRqYUidA9JZ7SP9UaDi I actually expected BBI to be better than NP, is there something that I'm forgetting? Or is it because of my current crit and coral?
rigid mango
What's your crit at?
rigid mango
and mast?
junior flume
47,5
junior flume
Yea so I thought the crit would be good to get.
sudden ocean
1 or more loyal to the end will usually push NP over the line vs a bbi
cobalt pelican
np scales with mastery
and it's your first np and generally np is p good with font/coral since so much damage happens during that window
junior flume
Ah okay
vivid burrow
Is it better to run an AoE Sin build on mythic org now, or still stay with outlaw after the nerf?
sudden ocean
you're using a loyal on your chest so that'll be influencing it a lot
rigid mango
Depends on comp
Do you need the add damage, you can go sin with full pad, if you don't, you can go ST
cobalt pelican
my reforge cost is still sky high so i might end up playing the mouthbreather build on reclear
rigid mango
Or you can go outlaw, all work
sudden ocean
I'm running an EB/ttk build on org to a decent amount of success, you play it like old aoe sub rogue
junior flume
Yea I have double loyal, still need the slot machine to give me shoulders
sudden ocean
maintaining~ 55-60k dps comfortably first phase
sudden ocean
I lack the gear so I play scuffed sin rogue
vivid burrow
Della, what is your gear like? Can you send me an armory link
junior flume
Thanks for the explanation by the way 🙂 Didn't think about Np getting buffed my mastery
sudden ocean
Uh I posted it before one second
rigid mango
I mean, if you're running what, 3 eb della?
You should easily be going for those sort of numbers
sudden ocean
I dont have the org gear on atm and I'm too comfy in bed to turn the computer on sorry
vivid burrow
No worries, does your guild log?
rigid mango
CE
vivid burrow
I can check logs if you can tell me your guild name
sudden ocean
yeah there's far better logs than mine if you just search the fight
vivid burrow
Thanks guys!
sudden ocean
np
sudden ocean
just check with your raid lead first as to whether you're an add rat or they want you on ST
cobalt pelican
28.9k boss dps froggers
sudden ocean
highest damage sources on boss are garrote and fok 
cobalt pelican
honestly playing/simming for orgozoa in general has made me realize how much assassination priority damage is really kinda butt
even if you set the priority rotation so that it caps bleeds to 5 instead of bleeding everything up
sudden ocean
yeah without like 3 ttk it's scuffed
cobalt pelican
it's still not great
sudden ocean
boss damage is poop
rigid mango
in a long scenario the prio damage sorta sucks
cobalt pelican
i guess if you clamp fight duration to like tb length it's prolly p good still
rigid mango
I think ttk's are only really feel-able in scenarios when you pump hard in TB +- vend windows in m+
cobalt pelican
as soon as you go past the point of tb where you have to start doing bleed maint it's really annoying
rigid mango
I don't really feel diff here
static glacier
I could see it having ok prio damage in council situations
rigid mango
hm?
sudden ocean
the biggest problem with org as sin imo is you have to flick back and forth to bleed the adds
like outlaw you just sit there and face the boss
sudden ocean
I'll never forget the time I grappled through Kin'goroth, got stuck under him, couldnt be killed and couldnt reset the boss
that's when I knew I loved outlaw
ripe nimbus
Mouse over macro for rupture and garrote then u don't lose melee on boss 🤔
rigid mango
Can you even be in range for all of them without acro?
I've not tried sin there yet so
sudden ocean
you talking with fok?
ripe nimbus
Oh I donno I just go outlaw and fall asleep
turbid osprey
best azerite trait combo? seen message of 2/2/2 but not sure what that means
rigid mango
Nah della, I meant as melee range
eternal turtle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pMNmjQVdSPg2qUSXivs1
Is there anything particulairly sht about my gear that it sims so low? i get luc dreams 3 tomorrow.
But i see others with same ilvl sim like 10k higher sometimes
turbid osprey
oh thats m+ nvm lol
sudden ocean
oh its tough without acro
rigid mango
if you can stand attacking the boss and still rupture adds with mousover
@eternal turtle you did something to the URL
It's not a valid link
sudden ocean
Shouldnt you not be able to due to the adds being behind you
eternal turtle
rigid mango
I mean you can sorta turn a bit I suppose
sudden ocean
yeah thats what ive been doing
like a 45 degree angle off the boss
flick quickly, dot up then back on boss
rigid mango
I don't see anything that's wrong with the sim, you're lacking 2 benthic pieces, sockets, optimal azerite, no font, only a 430 mainhand
etc etc
sudden ocean
lucid 3 as well
eternal turtle
i can buy new 445 piece next week guess i just gamble shoulders?
calm coral
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
eternal turtle
ya is loyal to the end good?
vapid scarab
Ya
rigid mango
Insanely so, just down to having enough people w it in raid
strange python
First ever good azerite piece i gamble, over the whole expansion so far. Yay me! 😛
eternal turtle
nice gz gz
strange python
i use azshara trinket at 5 second but is it better to delay coral from vendetta or to wait a little bit for using vendetta + coral for our 2nd vendetta ?
strange python
ok
past marten
Already asked in guild, but maybe we're all blind. I simulated the value of getting the Overclocking Bit Band in Mecha (415, no socket) vs. my current ring. Top Gear says it's a 690 dps increase, Gear Compare says it's a 390 dps increase. How comes?
Fight length, potion/flask/food, everything the same
And stat weights are almost interchangeable by now, doesn't really explain the 300 dps difference
winter gale
Wich spec should I play on Orgozoa mythic progress? Is Outlaw still way to go?
bleak spoke
When you sim top gear usually you sacrifice precision for tons of gear variations
past marten
I have done it with only this variation now vs. current gear
bleak spoke
Outlaw unless your raid isn’t meeting boss dps checks
bleak spoke
Idk there has to be something different about it, are you sure you’ve checked off nightly vs weekly etc
winter gale
@bleak spoke guild dps is more than enough.
We pushed to 58% in 1hr we had on it so far.
I played Outlaw and it was good. I will stick to it I guess.
Ty m8
quartz relic
good, all this are buff or nerf to Assasin 😦
scarlet sequoia
is that from legion rofl
static glacier
I remember back in MoP, combat could eschew using rupture for a sub 1% dps loss
it was basically current outlaw but without all the gun shit, ss to 5, evisc, maintain S&D
past marten
@bleak spoke I now copied the input of top gear and the input of gear compare into quick sim with exactly the same settings (my browser keeps the last ones), the difference is still 300 dps
I am at a loss 
cobalt wedge
im looking at warcraft logs and i cant see when people are using guardian of life
ancient onyx
on cd pretty much
wary sun
Hi guys, any tips on what 3 essences to use in EP when i got all slots unlocked and every essence r3?
wary sun
My combat stats with food is 33.74% crit, 17.35% haste, 41.39% mastery and 6.51% versa
scarlet sequoia
hope youre using haste food
wary sun
im not currently no, guess i should run it. so CLF+lucid+memebeam minor?
ancient onyx
ye
beam and CS is 150-200 dps between each other
so i guess u can drop all vers and run CS
if u wanted to
cobalt wedge
do you use the guardian before the fight?
font 6 second before -> guardian -> pot -> invis shadowstep opener?
vernal fern
how do you guys use Blood with Subterfuge and SS on ST ? I'm doing garrote - rupture - garrote - blood - vendetta - TB, but I feel like I'm losing an important GCD during blood 5 sec crit window so IDK about it
junior flume
There was some talk about that a while ago, but don't remember the outcome tapoo. I personally open up, get bleeds running -> clf -> vend ->vanish ->tb
bleak spoke
@past marten file that one under who knows D:
cobalt wedge
kk i was wondering because i cant see anyone casting the essence on the top parses i looked
bleak spoke
@winter gale yeah that fight was more of a healer check for us tbh
junior flume
That's just me though, I'm not an expert 😛
sick umbra
does any one assassination in M+?
cobalt wedge
i do
bleak spoke
With blood you can bote the global before or after tb
cobalt wedge
more fun than outlaw tbh but losing gouge is annoying haha
bleak spoke
Shouldn’t cast stuff that doesn’t benefit from critting (vendetta) while bote is active
vernal fern
Alright thanks 🙂
sick umbra
what talents would it be best to take
cobalt wedge
subterfuge for m+
past harbor
What would be better for m+ in your opinion, 420 head with SS and EB or 450 head with TK and the gizmo trait? Its like 2.5k more dps on bosses but lower on hectic add cleave, but i dont know how reliable is hectic
muted cove
Do you guys think the belt from azshara would be better than the phys benethic belt even though it has a socket in it? It sim’d lower for me but i think it’d be better since it the effect lines up with vendetta
sick umbra
is crimson tempest any good for m+
bleak spoke
Ctemp is highest throughput on most sims but it’s a harder style to play in terms of energy balance
And also paddier
The damage also takes longer to ramp
Wouldn’t recommend it as it doesn’t do many things better than pbomb
lucid carbon
any pins spending resiidum based on the order of drops in raid?
noble vale
Definitely wouldn’t run CT in M+
It’s always more worth to hit FoK again and take free dmg from Pb
jolly comet
current meta is you spam FOK to get combo to put into envenom to proc poison bomb
noble vale
@winter gale brate, try sin for Gorgonzola. It’s so fun if you have a SOB and some EBs ahahaha
Im only half memeing also
noble vale
The FoK isn’t to trigger poison bomb LOL
Those two things are separate
You just read them as mutually exclusive
jolly comet
honestly since they changed PB to proc on rupture too they should give us a new talent instead of Ctemp
noble vale
PB is free dmg, and it’s more worrying to hit FOK than CT
past harbor
What do you think of 2xTK 1xSS and 2xEB for M+? (the last trait is the engineering helmet one), I can switch the engi helmet with a 420 with SS and EB
tropic ocean
@past harbor any combination is fine
vapid scarab
yes, CT is bad, no, FoK-> env is not why you take PB
tropic ocean
🤔
noble vale
It’s not friend
jolly comet
how big of a group do you have to have with how many EB that you dont finish and just spam FOK?
tropic ocean
theres some sheet around here where you can type in ur data and it will tell you
iirc it was 6 or 7
noble vale
You’re an absolute mongo if you don’t get finishers in, and you’re not playing sin as the prio dmg it’s suppose to be
The whole point is to prio down targets
tropic ocean
cool story man
noble vale
Do you guys actually play sin in M+ or just theory it?
tropic ocean
probably at higher level than you
tropic ocean
however that influences what is mathematically right or wrong
glass seal
besides poison bomb procs only happen if you spend combo, and you want to keep 3 ruptures to keep the energy flowing
noble vale
I’m not world #1 by any means, but I’ve played sin throughout.
cunning blaze
Does battlefield focus trait work in pve? And is it good?
tropic ocean
pls don't whisper me kid
noble vale
Well let’s see it kid
tropic ocean
and pls dontt act tough when you play your top timed score keys
with ppl that have
+1k rio on u
noble vale
Yes cause I pug ?
And they invite me? LOL
It’s a wicked compliment when 4K IO players invite me
tropic ocean
uh huh
tribal marlin
I got irontide helm
noble vale
But I guess now that you’re seen it, you won’t link yours; cause you do them at higher level right?
tropic ocean
not as high but I did 20s as well
tropic ocean
but I also dont play with significantly better people than myself
tribal marlin
now I'm crushing by the doubt of the regular question "2/2/2 or 3/2/1"
noble vale
That’s all I need to hear
tropic ocean
i mean
noble vale
Then you’ll never get better LOL
tribal marlin
so tell me then 2/2/2 or 3/2/1
noble vale
You get better by playing with better people FYI
tribal marlin
1 being eb and 3 ss
muted cove
Do you guys think the belt from azshara would be better than the phys benethic belt even though it has a socket in it? It sim’d lower for me but i think it’d be better since it the effect lines up with vendetta
noble vale
Not by being a big fish ina. Small pond
past marten
@bleak spoke I probably have to quit thinking about this one - at the same time, 690 dps increase is better than even 445 Coral
timid cloak
Hey I was wondering if someone could help me look at logs for a sin rogue in my raid, trying to progress ashvane but failing to meet dps checks and trying to get everyone caught up and help them improve
short jacinth
The channel should be for info discussion about sin, not inflating ones who tbh
noble vale
Yeah you could prob benefit from coaching not a bad idea man
glass seal
@muted cove if you sims in nazjatar or EP maybe, but for M+ or other content, my bet is going to azshara's belt
short jacinth
Ego*
jolly comet
if you're gonna mongo spam FOK wouldnt taking master poisoner be better than Elab Planning since you are rarely gonna be finishing?
royal lantern
why do people say that you do envenom too proc poison bombs
glass seal
No, we have established that in real gameplay, you should cast finishers
royal lantern
PB does extremly low dmg, you use envenom too get higher hp targets down
noble vale
But you don’t, because you should be fucking up prio targets like a good boy instead of just worrying about overall. Between putting out 3 ruptured and prio damage not getting 10% overall dmg out is just dumb
royal lantern
OR too kill important targets fast
tribal marlin
you do spam FoK in some situation that isn't the majority of the situation you face in real dung
jolly comet
so i should keep up 3 ruptures at all times?
noble vale
PB is used cause it’s free dmg
dense parcel
is it worth taking 2 SS, 2 EB, 1 TTK and 1 rupture enhance trait over 3SS, 1EB and 2TTK?
jolly comet
on bolstering week i was using 3TTK 2SS 1EB to prio shit down with envenom
noble vale
@jolly comet on a week like this, high Fort keys; I keep 3-4 ruptures our after my opening 3 garrottes
dense parcel
for this eek
sick umbra
@noble vale so what talents should i be taking for m+ then
jolly comet
ok cool thanks
noble vale
@jolly comet that’s a good boy. A very good boy
That’s literally what we’re suppose to do
jolly comet
but in that situation should i also keep rupture up on 3ish targets?
tribal marlin
I got Irontide helm and now I'm crushed by the doubt about 3/2/1 or 2/2/2 😦
tho i'm NE and 3xSS is so strong when NE
noble vale
Depends on dungeon SOB start for example can hardly keep 2 ruptures out
jolly comet
ok
noble vale
@tribal marlin I’m personally all about 3 SS
jolly comet
yea i like 3 ss
noble vale
I’m dying for a SS TTK helm
dense parcel
yes boss
tribal marlin
I know :3
noble vale
I hate that I only have a EB UT 445 helm
My personal ideal setup is 3 SS 2EB and 1TTk for Fort weeks
2/2/2 for tyran weeks is solid
dense parcel
ah im not too far off that
glass seal
@royal lantern no one says you cast envenom for PB, its just freebie damage you get, learn to raed
noble vale
That 20 FH I was “boosted in” had shadow playing outlaw and he beat me by 1k overall o my
*only
So you can deff keep up
rigid mango
Can we have a like uhh, 5 min break from anyone who's typed in this discussion to type more?
Just so it kills off and we can go back to sin (:
noble vale
🙄🙄 Jesus class discord cry babies
glass seal
TBH that 20 freehold was bursting, not the best affix for outlaw
noble vale
Typical lol
rigid mango
If you don't want to deal with them, don't type, it's going to be like this forever
strong badger
is the difference between Fathomstalker Wristwraps and Ori's Tidal Wristwraps big, in terms of single target?
rigid mango
Not really
Not noticably, anyways. I'm running puffer ones and some fights they do as good as frost, some worse, some better.
strong badger
thanks for the info! 😁
faint owl
Is it normal for crucible of flame to overtake memory of lucid dreams as your primary essence in sims if you have enough haste?
bold cave
SOmetimes, I see on people's logs that they open with Multitate from stealth instead of Garrote, what is the difference and when its good/bad?
scarlet sequoia
irrelevant dont bother
unless you wanna do the right thing
literally doesnt matter
tribal marlin
Guys I think I've got the shiniest gear I ever had this tier :/
cobalt pelican
i might aswell be naked
tribal marlin
Deleting, it's nsfw
shrewd night
round harbor
🍔
fleet whale
idk about lucid major, for me it sims about 500 dps higher compared to BOTE major
round harbor
Are they both rank3
fleet whale
yes
round harbor
What about vs clf major
fleet whale
CLF major is an increase vs Lucid Major for me but it wasn't as high as i thought it would be
arctic walrus
what are you gemmed/enchanted as
fleet whale
i have very high crit and pretty high mastery
fleet whale
but it's way easier for me to gear for both M+ and raid with the build i use right now... plus i only raid heroic and maybe we'll do like the first 3 bosses on mythic. I also just prefer the playstyle of lucid
spare sable
In M+ w/ three echoing blades, blood of the enemy or focusing Iris?
Higher stones, 18-19s
fleet whale
if running three EB i would go BoTE
rich flame
can anybody tell me if i m right about my gems ?
i wanted to reach 8% versatility, is it good or i should put full hast ?
rich flame
sim dont work for that, its not telling me anything
fleet whale
stat weights?
there's no magic number of what percentage you should reach for any given secondary stat, especially for something like verse
sterile ocean
should force manipulated be on main hand or offhand or dosent matter?
strange python
does sin get faster at 120?
vapid scarab
yes
fleet whale
with gear yes, but it by no means becomes like a havoc DH
strange python
oh thank goodness
vapid scarab
yeah you still are far from gcd capped but you do get faster
fleet whale
but more so than speed the spec becomes far more smooth
strange python
it was pretty fast but as i'm leveling it's just... slowed down
fleet whale
yeah, the last 10 levels really makes the spec brutal
strange python
i'm only level 95
daring iron
outlaw was a lot of fun to level as
strange python
yeah i feel like outlaw is better
fleet whale
yeah, i would honestly level as outlaw or sub
strange python
i run out of energy several times before i can kill even a single thing
and it's sad because i love sin rogue
daring iron
bleed classes are always a bit meh leveling imo
fleet whale
though Sin was really good to level from 110-120 but that was cause of leggo shoulders
strange python
well we're bleeds/poisons so
vapid scarab
i leveled all the way as ass and it was definitely the fastest
because you can dot things and just run to the next mob
daring iron
outlaw can pull world and blade flurry though lol
strange python
yeah but i can't do that too much because rogues are squishy as hell lol
rigid mango
Outlaw without wits 
daring iron
it does feel gross
fleet whale
leeching poison helps a bit
vapid scarab
well yeah you're squishy but you don't let mobs hit you
daring iron
all specs feel gross without azerite traits honestly lol
strange python
yeah leeching is good
daring iron
tru, esp with the fok honor talent
fleet whale
they all felt gross when artifacts were taken away too 😦
strange python
sas but i'm melee
daring iron
artifacts were such a better system
strange python
i gotta get in close range
toxic burrow
RIP Kingsbane. I miss you.
fleet whale
rip critting mutilate every time
vapid scarab
not for mass aoe you don't
daring iron
honestly, kingsbane was such a fun ability to play around
daring iron
put a poison on them that scaled through applying deadly poison in its window
strange python
wow
fleet whale
and it had a fairly neat animation to go with it
daring iron
could start to hit for ludicrous amounts if you got 100% envenom uptime during it
and vendetta etc
strange python
sheesh
daring iron
antorus sin rogue was glorious
strange python
PB?
daring iron
poison bomb
strange python
oh
daring iron
it was much better in legion
past harbor
How's orgozoa trinket for m+ for sin?
strange python
if you max every envenom and rupture you'd have a 20% each of poison bomb working
toxic burrow
Yeah. A guildmate and I had identical performances throughout Antorus on our rogues. The massive difference came from who got the wonky back to back PB procs and who got RNG dumped on instead
fleet whale
i guess we still play around Toxic Blade and it does have a noticeable impact on performance. But when you get down to it, it's just another version of colossus smash
daring iron
PB chance was lower in legion I believe
strange python
i've been using venom rush lol
fleet whale
hmm i guess that's ok for leveling
strange python
i just don't feel like i can bear another energy spender
fleet whale
it's pretty cheap
fleet whale
brah mutilate used to be 55 in legion lol
fleet whale
i think garrote being 45 is a bigger offender imo
strange python
maybe there's just something wrong with my rotation
fleet whale
you're leveling so i wouldn't really worry about rotation
just make sure you have rupture rolling when a mob dies for the energy refund
strange python
yeah
i do mutilate, mutilate, garrote, rupture
then i use mutilate and garrote/rupture if they're about to expire
vapid scarab
why are you opening with mut, you should be using garrote
swift moss
Only rupture if you have 4-5 cp
devout moth
what trait setup u using for m+?
strange python
so i should use garrote first?
swift moss
He is leveling @devout moth
vapid scarab
yes, and you should be using subterfuge for leveling
last parrot
Id like to level new chars too. Then I see azerite power, essences, nazjatar and mechagon. Naaaaah
vapid scarab
I mean pretty much everyone just wants CLF
muted maple
condensed life force
last parrot
Raid essence
swift moss
Max level essence
muted maple
and not eveyrbody wants it, because not everyones priority is raiding.
strange python
ah
swift moss
Don't worry about it for now gonna be a while bloody
strange python
i want the one that has a chance of refunding energy
last parrot
@vapid scarab yeah for raiding and some for m+. Thats it
vapid scarab
then why does it matter what essence you have in the first place
if your focus isn't raiding
strange python
so currently i have 1/2/1/1/3/1
muted maple
because CDF isnt always the best in m+ or pvp
vapid scarab
you use iris for both
swift moss
Use toxic blade bloodyfur
last parrot
Also every class has 3 specs
vapid scarab
which you get from a single m+
past harbor
How good is coral for assa in m+?
strange python
my hotbar is full lol
wary ice
lol how
swift moss
lol then just stick with exsang
strange python
rogues have a ton of abilities
wary ice
😬 i guess
rigid mango
@past harbor very
wary ice
I'm assuming ur on default ui? are u using the extended bar?
strange python
i guess i can move one of my mounts to the side
vapid scarab
try this macro
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/1] Venom Rush;[talent:6/2] Toxic Blade;[talent:6/3] Exsanguinate
strange python
i have extended things on the sides that i don't really use
solemn meadow
is it a st gain for assa to fok at orgozoa?
since I have dd
and Idk how much of a difference that is
swift moss
use fok to keep up poisons
past harbor
@rigid mango Better than a Golden Plumage?
strange python
i'll just move cloak to the upper bar
swift moss
bleed the extra targets with rupture but keep mut and envenoming the boss
cause prio dmg
strange python
do we need poisoned knife at all?
wary ice
its more for PvP
strange python
oh ok
wary ice
i think in pve its used only when u cant hit the boss and are about to energy cap
strange python
i'll put that to the side then
vapid scarab
you can use it to pull stuff far away
wary ice
^ thats what tanks are for tho :^)
vapid scarab
ah yes, i forgot to have my tank pal level with me
fervent beacon
Well, when I ran sin, I was always pulling for tank, so I would trick and pre pull the next trash with it
It also good to keep the poison debuff up on bosses if you need to do mechanics
strange python
right
strange python
it's not neccesary, but it's useful
vapid scarab
you should have it bound, if you're looking for something to remove from your bars take off pickpocket or pick lock or some dumb shit like that
strange python
i'll put the lockpicking one to the side too then, just in case i need the space
vapid scarab
anything that has a use, no matter how situational, in a combat scenario should be bound
strange python
even blind?
vapid scarab
ofc
strange python
why can't we have that outlaw talent that reduces the cooldown on blind? that'd be cool
rigid mango
@past harbor probably BiS 😄
vapid scarab
@strange python because sin would be broken as fuck in pvp
strange python
i mean we already have wound poison
vapid scarab
get trinket with blind GG next blind you insta win
yes, sin has a MS effect, just like warriors, and hunters, and monks
strange python
MS?
fervent beacon
Mortal strike
fervent beacon
which is basicallly wound poison
strange python
ours doesn't need a cd lol
fleet whale
Ripple in Space is secretly the best essence
vapid scarab
sin doesn't have a CD for wound poison but you also can't dispel any of the others
strange python
they can try to dispell it
fleet whale
that teleport is extremely op
vapid scarab
cus that's how pvp works
vapid scarab
CC mobility and dispels exist
vapid scarab
you're right because we have all 3 that automatically makes us immune to ever being effected by one
royal lantern
play against a mage or druid and think again that sprint and cloak is enough too keep up with them
same with monk/dh 🤷
fervent beacon
well, its related with sin so 🤔
strange python
meh
desert vault
do azerite traits really matter much for Mecha? I never run it, just something generic like 2/2/2?
fervent beacon
Running at least 1 EB would be good on trash I believe
drifting pulsar
How do you use Coral and font ? font before vendetta and coral asap after ?
civic palm
Check #tc-updates
drifting pulsar
thanks
halcyon skiff
Switching from outlaw to assas, purely for raiding do I want to focus on getting 3xDD or 3xTTK?
civic palm
options and results may vary.
halcyon skiff
Would love to hear some opinions
arctic walrus
zaqul/gorak/blackwater is your bis
you'll likely see a mix of dd/ttk 1 np and some loyal
wide hedge
blackwater chest is bis? not cephalohide?
arctic walrus
with 4 loyal
fleet whale
Undulating tides is the TRUE BiS azerite trait 😛
civic palm
o _o
fleet whale
you just have to take 0 damage throughout the entire fight
true nexus
fleet whale
only trait that comes close to it is Fight or Flight
stray wind
Would you say there's a minimum amount of crit you should have before taking MA over subterfuge?
rigid mango
No
civic palm
If anything crit is devalued by MA, but that won't happen this expansion.
stray wind
Okay, I had someone tell me my crit was too low to use ma and that i should switch to sub. but I was sketch about it
civic palm
o _O
If nothing else, just sim it and see.
Don't just blindly take someone's word for it.
strange python
unless i tell you something
stray wind
right, I was just wanting another opinion. sim told me ma was a dps increase with my traits
mortal crystal
!opener
solemn meadow
imagine
in crimson tempest was good for orgozoa
you just dot everything without needing to target it
free energy
wet ruin
I am pretty sure ct doesn't give you energy
strange python
the ruptures will do tho
wet ruin
they will, he said free energy without targeting 😄
strange python
ct applies rupture, no ?
wet ruin
what no
wet ruin
it would be too strong if it gave energy
civic palm
o _O
strange python
idk if they changed the discription from venmous wounds
solemn meadow
would be cool tho
strange python
i remember it saying u get energy for every bleed
instead of saying "rapture and garrote"
mossy abyss
so im kinda new to sin, are you supposed to always pool and do short bursts to take advantage of elaborate planning?
mossy abyss
so no pooling outside tb windows?
placid kindle
crisp steppe
I wish I got head 
desert vault
Vers isn't terrible in m+ correct?
crisp steppe
correct
civic palm
Every moment of the fight is pooling for TB windows.
nimble tartan
@marble elm @arctic walrus how do we feel about clf on azshara instead of bote
nimble tartan
vel dont be mad when i ping u bro you beat wow u need this content im handin out
arctic walrus
It depends on what add you're struggling on I suppose
1/3 go with bote, if 2 then clf
severe sedge
ok, i have checked pins... but coral use is not all clear to me
use it at pull, leave upp untill next vendetta?
and then use for crit?
and apply again after thet vendetta?
random furnace
Yep
severe sedge
so the big deeps comes at second vendetta?
random furnace
Thats how I understand it.
If the fight is long enough, you might use it more than once.
which is usually the case.
severe sedge
but only use with vendetta?
random furnace
Yep
random furnace
2nd, 3rd, etc
severe sedge
and pop at next vendetta?
random furnace
yes
rigid mango
It's like, BiS for both specs I think.
random furnace
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
winged pumice
3x ttk, 2x ss, 1x eb is okay for m+?
signal summit
yes
or not the best
u would want 1 more eb personally atleast
otherwise its good
vernal flume
That's what most consider to be a good baseline for M+ yea
vernal flume
I dont know if I agree with that, its just not as strong as it would be in a ST situation
Crit is what you want to aim for probably
winged pumice
okay many sin players have told me haste is unnecessary as you already generate lots of energy
vernal flume
But having some haste doesnt hurt for boss fights and stuff
rigid mango
@winged pumice Yes, low haste high crit
desert vault
is Vers better than Master in M+ or about equal prolly?
desert vault
I always run at least one ttk, just doing one this week trying 3x eb, 2x ss, ttk for fun
inland gull
vast forum
dense sleet
how do u guys sim for raiding? patchwork or light movement
umbral fiber
reef frigate
3rd NP or Loyal to the end? i hav 3DD too
civic palm
Loyal if there are others with it as well.
reef frigate
Thanks 🙂
winged pumice
guys how many targets shall i put garrote and rupture on in m+
civic palm
Garrote first three (because you play Subterfuge and not Master Assassin), Rupture as many as you need until you can sustain FoK+Finisher spamming. Do not refresh Garrotes unless required to get to that energy point and there are not enough targets for Rupture to get you there.
winged pumice
okay thank you
empty tide
got gorak tul's 
bright smelt
shouldnt 5 bleeds be whats needed to sustain fok spam @civic palm
civic palm
Just about, haste reducing that if you have a ton for some reason
cobalt pelican
even at low haste if you're playing lucid minor 4 is pretty fine for the most part
bright smelt
bote major lucid minor 👌🏻
aka you'll get quite a bit of haste from bote itself aswell
orchid nebula
Is there a way to hypothetically sim benthic gear? I have 430+ with some sockets in multiple pieces, and have the right benthic pieces on hand, but just want to see for sure it sims higher than current pieces before i dump pearls on upgrading
teal stratus
teal stratus
yes, use gear compare and just set them as 425
median sand
gear compare
orchid nebula
Okay ty
past marten
Did anybody already notice the difference of the Haste proc on the Mech ring ingame vs sim?
The first screenshot is the copied input directly from the SimC addon, the second one is ingame
shadow agate
What's general M+ usage for Coral?
civic palm
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
rigid mango
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
low junco
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
low junco
u asked for it
civic palm
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAH
rigid mango
shadow agate
yikes haha
cobalt pelican
the sim doesn't have any tooltips, it just fetches what it deems appropriate from wowhead
shadow agate
my bad, I checked pins! Just didn't seem as applicable
weary marten
hey guys ! i don't understand how vision of demise works :/ i try using it on random mobs but didn't notice anything
weary marten
oooooh it's based on missing health on use, not health lost during the effect ?
cobalt pelican
yes
civic palm
That makes me wonder.
weary marten
anyway vision 430 sims lower than inkpod 430, pocket size device with cyclotronic and 410 dice
weary marten
when pulling, when are you using the cyclotronic ? after vendetta fades ?
and not during toxic blade ofc
rigid mango
It's in the #wow-general pins for some reason
civic palm
- - - - - - - - How to Use Trinket - - - - - - - -
Pocket-Sized Computation Device Edition
~ Not under the effects of;
Vendetta, Lucid Major, or Toxic Blade
~ Time on Rupture and Garrote is over;
4 seconds
~ You are under 80 energy
Note: 4 seconds is as slow as the trinket
can be, with Haste the time goes down.
weary marten
didn't check sorry
winged pumice
guys is 70k on a big pack of like 5+ good for 424 ilvl
weary marten
thanks for linking it
civic palm
Can't really fault you for not checking pins in ANOTHER channel really.
winged pumice
im getting around 60/70k aoe and 30k ST in freehold... decent?
rigid mango
Sounds about right.
civic palm
Just pull more and hit 120k 👌
winged pumice
been hitting 100k max on huge pulls but only in low keys
orchid nebula
Assuming the real answer is "sim it", but for raid if you dont have CLF, Rank 3 Blood and Rank 3 Lucid Minor/Rank 3 Crucible Minor is probably going to be best?
woeful minnow
was crucible/lucid for me
rigid mango
CoF/bote are very close
elfin shoal
when do you pop your CLF ?
arctic walrus
cof and bote used to be close to me but not anymore, huge now
mint prairie
Hey guys, am I the only one simming higher with the prepot Agi than with the Fury one?
fleet whale
why does everyone here ignore lucid major now