as if I do the calculation with my own character it's around 45k dmg per target per fok use while envenom is like 35k on a 4target count.
#assassination
tribal marlin
but adding vendetta/tb in the windows and Env is better, by a lot.
so I'd assume I won't start spamming FoK on 4t and probably consider it only at 5t+
wet ruin
45k per target??
tribal marlin
yes
wet ruin
kinda hard hitting knifes
hoary crown
wet ruin
that is better 😄
tribal marlin
but there are some situation where I'll just use envenom even in 6+ targets
wet ruin
I don't really think you should just spam fok
at any number of targets
kinda making elaborate planning and poison bomb useless
fading spire
Surely you don’t spam if you take elaborate planning
wet ruin
and pb does alot of dmg in my experience
tribal marlin
indeed you can do the calculation too for that
real bay
pb is rng
tribal marlin
it's like 0.2 x Crit x PB_dmg x Target_count per envenom cast
should add around 10k value to an envenom on 4target count assuming 50% crit chance and mob not moving at all
wet ruin
roughly, I guess
heavy trail
Anyone here using the engineering helm at all, say for M+ or whatever? I have a few other 420 options and can work them in with two EBs but just not sure if it's worth it in the end lol
desert lake
how do you guys optimize using Coral in m+? i find it hard to use on trash and get benefit out of it.. :S
noble vale
im in a real dilemma today boys. IVe fallen in love with the Pandaren dagger attacking animation, but Belf is so good in M+. What to do
desert vault
and another 50 pearls spent, 0 gloves, yay!
tribal marlin
Join the real true faction in this game and go for NE.
spice surge
@noble vale Panda ofc
raw oasis
People say CT is bad because EB trait is really good? I don't understand the connection between the two?
arctic walrus
A gcd used on CT will do less damage than an EB buffed fok
raw oasis
So you're even spamming FoK over Envenoms?
raw oasis
Seems to be like 4+ with my currrent gear
spice surge
No poisons
shut pasture
FUCK
thick narwhal
snort
thick narwhal
I do that all the time
mostly cause maining sub makes you forget that poinsons is a thing
pearl pagoda
you dont need elusiveness for first boss in freehold right
fient still reduces the dmg
grim rose
raidbots is simming pocket-sized computation device correctly right? It's saying a 410 one with crit, mastery and cyclotronic is better than 415 dribbling inkpod?
cinder relic
anyone here able to walk me through some of the rotation or look at my Simc and tell me what im doing wrong
abstract cypress
Alavisto, without a poison on the target, you get no energy from bleeds
Venomous wounds is the one tha6t gives energy, 7 energy per bleed tick, but only with poison on the target
that*
So, because I'm too lazy to figure it out msyelf and I'm sure someone else already has: With hidden blades, when should I use a fan of knives instead of a mutilate single target? (At how many stacks)
inland horizon
Anyone know how much dps diff the potion does?
dense cedar
@abstract cypress Why are you using hidden blades?
cobalt wedge
is it me or vendetta and vanish always feels off? i always waste like 25s of vendetta everytime
abstract cypress
Because I'm talking m+ with 3 echoing blades traits
cobalt wedge
or do you guys vendetta with 10s left on vanish
rigid mango
Wdym tapoo
abstract cypress
CD-wise, you mean?
jagged tulip
what are ideal sin dungon traits now? 3x SS 1x EB and 2 TtK?
rigid mango
I'd say 2/2/2
dense cedar
@abstract cypress p. sure u shouldn't be running hidden blades alongside EB
dense cedar
Like I don't even know if anyone has cared to put that much thought into it
cinder relic
@rigid mango so whats the best mythic+ azerite trait set up
steady owl
where do i fit toxic blade in to the rotataion when foking to build cps and spread ruptures?
tribal marlin
just use TB on cooldown
rigid mango
@cinder relic don't troll spec channels pls
steady owl
and mouse over rupture?
dense cedar
i usually just tab target my ruptures lmao
shy dust
@cobalt wedge are you using Sub or MA
steady owl
yeah me 2 buti have it macroed anyway
dense cedar
gcd is long enough that i wouldn't really benefit from mouseover i don't think
dense cedar
as a minor?
tribal marlin
I barely reach 8 stack at the end of the pack
shy dust
You hold vendetta to use with vanish then
tribal marlin
as 3rd minor yes
rigid mango
He got 65 earlier today
tribal marlin
My bet actually is Focusing Iris in Tyrannical for it's insane value on boss (and still ok on trash)
Fortified I think VoP is good, otherwise Protocol
rigid mango
Wont flame minor just be better for tyr
tribal marlin
I'm not sure, if like me you play with low haste
rigid mango
Since it's useful on ST and packs
tribal marlin
Iris have insane value on boss
rigid mango
Sure, but even on tyr weeks a dungeon is mostly trash
Using iris minor feels like a wack idea to me
Unless maybe kr and tos
But idk
tribal marlin
I'm not sure Flame will have more value on trash than iris
rigid mango
Haste is pretty much useless on trash so
tribal marlin
It's not 0 I mean
rigid mango
Doubt iris matters enough
tribal marlin
it's less than crit/master but it worth some dps because of garrote scaling on it, poison too
I might do some sims to be sure but I think Iris and Flame both worth around same on like 5targets sims
bleak spoke
Why not purification minor
true nexus
Would you guys ever go against sidegrade sims for comfort?
The example being that for example my best azerite sim rn has triple double dose but no NP, maybe I could squeeze in a NP for comfort/qol but lose like 100dps
tribal marlin
pp definitly the best bet for pure aoe dmg
rigid mango
If strife was bad
bleak spoke
Yes for sidegrades play what feels natural for sure
rigid mango
How does np give more comfort/qol tho
true nexus
energy? xd idk
bleak spoke
Like for a while before condensed flew ahead I played blood of the enemy even though it was 200 dps worse or so
rigid mango
You'll play the exact same with either trait on apart from very minor enery diff
I'd pref 3dd for them juicy mutis tbh
true nexus
I went for the best sim obv but I was wondering how better rogues handled it
bleak spoke
Ehhh I find it more consistent to get the envenoms I want with an np
peak smelt
Np has value too when there’s downtime
tribal marlin
NP have a lot of value if your strategy rely on bursting at a given specific moment
bleak spoke
It feels kinda annoying with bad rng out of lust to not have one
rigid mango
Np has more value of the fight is lower kill timer than 5 min
bleak spoke
No rexum is more accurate here for sure
rigid mango
If ur looking at 2:20 or 4:20 ish kill timers
bleak spoke
If you can’t stick on bosses np flies ahead
rigid mango
Aye that too
true nexus
if you cant stick should you pop vendetta anyway? 🤔
bleak spoke
Nah by that we mean like your boss wanders away, like behemoth
bleak spoke
Or goes up in the air like mekkatorque
Also if you have a hard burn phase like jaina
tribal marlin
Like Zaqul
Ashvane
I'll definitly choose NP over something else if it's close on thoose bosses
bleak spoke
At least with my experience on hc azshara that’s an example of a boss it’s not good for
rigid mango
I thought last phase burn was p useful
bleak spoke
Cuz you want to be able to smoothly swap your damage from 1 giga prio target to the next
tribal marlin
we don't even bother killing the add in p3 on hc azsahra :3
bleak spoke
Obviously it depends on pain points in your fight but I was slapping vendetta on one of the adds that spawned
rigid mango
No one does
tribal marlin
we just burn down the boss
rigid mango
Why would u
bleak spoke
Yeah we leave one up now
tribal marlin
yes same for us
rigid mango
Idk I think NP is good there if last phase burn is needed
bleak spoke
Both of them?
bleak spoke
Lmao that’s undertuned
rigid mango
Just blast boss
tribal marlin
well tbh I do believe NP is best to take over other close trait in most case
bleak spoke
True
tribal marlin
like BBI is RNG if it procs in a moment you are starved or downtime
while you are (or should at least) be pretty sure you will have 20sec uptime during your vendetta
bleak spoke
I like blightborne
bleak spoke
But if it’s a tough prog fight I probably take np
tribal marlin
ye that's my exemple because the only NP I have is on my gorak tul xD
and I had to choose between 1st np and BBI
woven summit
Is it OK going ST build in a key on bursting day?
bleak spoke
If it’s a really really tough prog fight I probably take blightborne again though
tribal marlin
both were simming close but I ended up choosing NP
rigid mango
@woven summit wdym st build
bleak spoke
Cuz in that case having that one magical pull might be better
rigid mango
Never
woven summit
and st uff
rigid mango
Ever
woven summit
ah ok 😄
rigid mango
Wot
bleak spoke
When you hard deplete a high key it can be worth
woven summit
ok i'll respec
tribal marlin
unless you plan on pulling mob 3 by 3 you'll loose a lot going with DD in keys
rigid mango
Why does burst matter :D
bleak spoke
To walk out and take st azerite
woven summit
the affix
rigid mango
I mean u lose at 3
woven summit
yeah you got a huge point
one guy told me come with st build who cares it's bursting lol
bleak spoke
So you get all stacks at once instead of rolling them
polar cape
Better pull big and cd trough high stack imo
woven summit
because i said i'm lazy to respec
bleak spoke
You have 1 cloak lol
dull osprey
Accepted my destiny and made an echoing blades build instead of my outlul set
bleak spoke
This is actually a really mongo aoe week if your healer isn’t shit and your tank isn’t shit
dull osprey
what are some tips for EB playstyle? I've heard after the initial 3 SS garrotes, you don't maintain garrotes, just rupts?
when do I just mongo spam fok, 3+?
bleak spoke
You want to upkeep enough bleeds so your energy regen equals or outpaces slightly the energy you spend on globals
So you never run into dead windows where you’re just pooling
So with ~11% haste that’s 4 bleeds
The idea on a long aoe pull is to convert the 3 garrotes at the start into ruptures
So you’d do something like g g g r and start slapping the fok keybind
But you want to output ruptures steadily so that in 15 seconds your bleeds don’t fall off all at once and you start starving for energy
bleak spoke
Hmm?
You need roughly 4 or 5 bleeds out at all times basically is what I’m saying
Most people like to finish after 3 foks because of the elaborate planning window
Oh you mean targets
So this is most easily played with 4 or more targets
3t assa is wicked precise, you want to upkeep garrotes and ruptures on all of the targets
dull osprey
okay cause I was wondering if I every go mut > fok > finisher
bleak spoke
Best way to do it is just to cheat and vanish 3 garrotes when you fuck it up
Don’t mutilate with 2+ targets and eb
Don’t press the button at all in aoe basically
dull osprey
oh wow, okay cool
thanks for the help man!
then if there is a priority target, that one I maintain garr while maintaining rupt on 3-4 targets?
bleak spoke
Yeah you want to garrote the prio target if it’s really really prio
You also want to Tb it
Keep in mind this bleed energy regen vs spent energy is the same if you fok or envenom they both cost the same
bleak spoke
So the prio target burst window you want to basically Tb env fok env fok env fok env and you’ll slam the prio target
ripe nimbus
remember when we used to run exsang.. pepperridge farm remembers
bleak spoke
The 3tk build is hard because you need to have a very strong idea of when to convert on prio damage and when to aoe
Man I miss exsang ct
dull osprey
Thanks for all the info @bleak spoke
bleak spoke
Man that was some mongo aoe dmg when most specs didn’t have any mongo aoe dmg
cinder relic
what weapon enchants
bleak spoke
Tbh ct is still the most mongo aoe damage for me it just makes less sense to play it
ripe nimbus
i wonder if we will use blindside, nightstalker, venom rush in any serious format this entire expansion xD
bleak spoke
I want blindside to be a real thing
ripe nimbus
i dont understand why blizzard brought blindside back if they wernt gonna make it viable lol
bleak spoke
You know what I think it should have been off the gcd
So you could use it in energy excess to bridge cp etc
dense quest
or have it as give 2 cp
mortal gale
guys when the best window to cast Blood of the enemy essence in a trash pack?
viral silo
Should I abandon my DH and focus on my Ass Rogue? READY...SET...GO...
bleak spoke
If you want to instantly slam a huge pack ggg r vanish ggg blood fok x 10
And you’ll do like 250k dps
bleak spoke
Oh I wouldn’t ever not play subterfuge in dungeons man
You don’t want to tie down your vanish to vendetta
mortal gale
i play with a fire mage and boomie and they just blast before i can even ramp up 😦
current build
lost tree
after 440 with socket in weekly chest one Underrot run 
bleak spoke
Ahh you want ss and eb instead of dd and np in dungeons
MA isn’t very good cuz all of it’s power is in st
But even in st it’s still only marginally ahead of subterfuge
vast forum
get SS on chest and shoulder
bleak spoke
While subt gains a lot lot of value on aoe
Blightborne is just good in every situation everywhere lmao
mortal gale
i use this build on forti weeks
vast forum
don't use DD on any week
vast forum
change that chest to the chest from last screenshot and pick SS and TTK
and you're pretty much fine
bleak spoke
That chest piece in your first build can be ss ttk right
Yeah put that in place of your fort week chest
And you have a setup that works every week
And will do more damage every week overall
bleak spoke
Keep in mind that even on tyrannical 80% of your time in a dungeon is spent on trash
mortal gale
im finding sims a bit iffy at the moment and scratching my head on target dummies for hours, so the recommendations are appreciated
vast forum
that's not quite true, tbh, on tyrannical weeks 4 bosses of 3 min each is 12 min in a ~30 min dungeon, which is about 40% 😄
mortal gale
so many combinations with essences and whatnot, i quit end of uldir and came back 4 weeks ago so its a bit of a change for me
magic silo
does sb know is the belt with increased dmg to aberrations worth rolling (with a socket ofc)? I mean, I've already got another belt - with increased dmg and it has a socket as well
winter aurora
guys are we simmin dslice for m+? or hectic add cleave + patchwerk?
magic silo
sim tells that the belt with dmg to aberration is better (obviously) with aberrations, whereas it really sucks compared with the second one in dps
and considering that there're only two bosses-aberrations in EP, I don't know whether I should spend pearls
heavy trail
Well this week probably pretty early 😃 haha
dull osprey
Using subt and SS, do we try to line up the second Vendetta with vanish (ie delay it for a while) or just use both on cd?
untold current
dark crag
F
scenic nacelle
F
upper horizon
Would this be the right place to ask for help with logs?
scarlet sequoia
no
arctic walrus
yeye
cobalt pelican
willow logs are the best because you can cut them by the ocean
upper horizon
Alright cool, I was wondering how I should go about improving my dps, specifically looking at mythic ashvane.
Here are some logs from a few days ago: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GXKrzhkgnyxWt6FC
When I vanish, I want to cast envenom > mut > evenom/mut, correct?
scarlet sequoia
hell yeah
upper horizon
Also, is there anything that I'm missing out on that I could be doing to get my dps higher?
rotund mural
new to coral trinket here... how many stacks do i want of it?
scarlet sequoia
@upper horizon your elaborate planning uptime maybe
its not a massive issue, but could be slightly better
upper horizon
alright, so should I be pooling energy then casting my next envenom right when elaborate planning ends?
or rather, is about to end?
scarlet sequoia
always use finishers as late into elaborate planning as possible
except during lust i guess
upper horizon
does that apply to during vendetta?
upper horizon
alright, thanks I'll go spend some time on the training dummy and try to fix that
upper horizon
which pull are you looking at?
teal hatch
BIs azerite pieces drop in EP ?
upper horizon
oh yeah if I casted envenom then thats probably a mistake
ripe nimbus
its ashvane and ur holding ur cooldowns so it didnt matter anyway
upper horizon
its mut till 4/5 combo > rupture > garrote > CLF > Vendetta > TB > Vanish > etc. if you're using cd's on pull right?
dull osprey
on ashvane, do you guys just hold all cds for when bubble is down or pop them on the bubble?
upper horizon
we pop all cd's when her shield drops
ripe nimbus
also u have an undulating tides trait.. that traits very bait especially on ashvane
use another trait or replace asap
upper horizon
but some pulls may be different we changed strats somewhere in there
is it worth it to go scent of blood over undulating tides?
scarlet sequoia
hell no
red plaza
@teal hatch "bis" azerite from EP is helm from Zaqul and, depending on how many other people are running Loyal to the End, the chest from Behemoth
ripe nimbus
on ashvane yes. ur losing ur undulating tides buff on first bubbles that hit the boss
u dont get dps from it for 45 seconds after that
ripe nimbus
theres no way
upper horizon
well I'll hopefully be getting a good chest come tuesday from the azerite vendor. I got shafted the first 2 tries with back to back mantles of fastidious machinations
red plaza
Then save or press your luck gambling for Gorak Tul shoulders
ripe nimbus
his undulating tides was doing no damage for 55% of the fight
and thats only 4 mins lol
it will be like 70% of doing no damage
vocal ginkgo
just let other players soak pepelaugh
upper horizon
If i get a good chest with double dose and nothing personal I can use my 445 helm of the inexorable tide
my only other chest at this point is twist the knife + scent/collective will
If I disenchanted every single piece I have except for my 445 shoulders and helm, I could afford a 445 chest right now. The only problem is that the worst piece is a 3.0% downgrade over my currently equipped set while the best piece is only a 1.7% upgrade.
dapper plover
^
desert vault
I know around 40%+ crit is ideal for M+ is there a rough target for mastery?
cobalt pelican
random stuff just from a brief look at the logs since i'm eating are like
way too much fokking stop it
use cyclo on pull
you will always get a 2nd cast in the 1st burn
as long as you're paying attn
upper horizon
I'm using font, when should i be using cyclo?
cobalt pelican
bleed maint is kinda bad, like you spent your entire first vendetta prep rupturing bubbles
then you went into vend with no bleeds on ashvane
and had to use your first globals getting it set up
you're using it correctly for what would be a 'normal' fight
if you move everything back 1min
but on ashvane you can like
open with cyclo > your 2nd cyclo cast will be just as she's casting hardened
upper horizon
ohhh right, so i should be using cyclo on pull when I'm saving cd's?
cobalt pelican
realistically cyclotronics normal priority is just
anytime you're not doing something better
and things that are better ar elike
vendetta, tb, having lots of energy
so just cast it at low energy when nothing else is going on outside vend
which oyu more or less do there's just no benefit to holding it till 80 seconds really on this fight
like this shouldn't be a thing
you know the break is coming
you have so long to plan for it
cause your following 3 globals are like rupt garrote then tb
and tb is late by like
10 seconds?
upper horizon
alright, so when should I refresh rupture during vendetta for the extra dot damage?
after tb and stuff?
cobalt pelican
that's not how vendetta works
it's applied to bleeds that are alreayd active
your goal should be to refresh bleeds as little as possible inside vendetta, really
(not letting them drop or overapplying beforehand, but you get the point)
upper horizon
Oh, it does? I was under the impression that you need to refresh your dots to have it work. Does that mean that I dont have to worry about rupture dropping off before refreshing it after vendetta?
cobalt pelican
you do not no
that only applies to shrouded suffocation/subterfuge buffed garrotes
and never ruptures unless you're playing ns or some shit
upper horizon
Alright cool, so thats one or two more envenoms i can get off suring vendetta
teal hatch
Which gems should i be using ?
scarlet sequoia
the right ones
muted cove
Do you guys think that the crit waist from azshara will be a dps increase over the Phys benethic belt even though it sims lower?
upper horizon
I assume that I shouldn’t be casting rupture during tb either?
faint harness
thats a good assumption
upper horizon
Or garrote for that matter
How important is not clipping the end of rupture when refreshing before tb/vendetta?
steady owl
undulating tides or double dose for single target? is undulating tides sim bait?
vocal ginkgo
dd everytime
steady owl
oki doki
vocal ginkgo
UT depending on the fight can be good but its usually bait
it sims well but is unrealistic to get consistent procs
steady owl
ok thanks
restive smelt
Do you guys recommend SS or MA build for HM Mecha? do bosses have additional health or is it just the different mechnics?
calm bough
Good trinkets for sin M+?
lost tree
is the Motherlode Trinket any good?
cobalt pelican
not really
it's not awful but it doesn't compare to any of the actual good trinkets
lost tree
445 Trinket 
slender urchin
With Goraks being the biggest upgrade by a large margin...worth it to save and buy specifically? Or still gamble?
empty crescent
gamble
vital raptor
ive gambled on both shoulders and chest and on both trys i got my BiS piece
drifting cloud
hard life
vital raptor
why is it that when i try to run what everyone else is running but when i sim it i lose like 1.2k dps?
noble vale
I don’t know why but I love the cyclotronic in M+ @calm bough also the ink pod is amazing
cobalt pelican
is that goraks with bbi and you already have zaq helm
or what
cause it looks like you have some weird helm (maybe engi?) which means goraks won't be that big in the long term
lost tree
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tbRHtPeeqhzrWhEmsoTx12
Motherlode trinket
bleak spoke
What’s the memebeam rotation with sin
On aoe
Is it 3 g memebeam vanish 3 g foks?
For burst aoe
I can’t think of any other way to take advantage of the pooling
slender urchin
@cobalt pelican I have shivara helmet (twist, doubledose)
cobalt pelican
ya if you're planning to save like
consider items you'd realistically get as upgrades a long the way namely ones that have np that might lower the value of goraks
you might still decide it's worth it but
slender urchin
It's DD/NP since its my single stack of NP
cobalt pelican
like straight 1k is probably unrealistic
slender urchin
That's what the third sim is...testing the mythic radiance shoulders
with a slightly different setup
cobalt pelican
do you not have the 435 zaq helmet
delicate crater
do you get the major and the minor effect when you put an essence in the major slot?
slender urchin
Nope, Zaq has only dropped the trinket for me four times xd
cobalt pelican
ya
just something to consider
cause if you get it
you'll likely be playing it
and not need to shuffle into some trash ass chestpiece
slender urchin
over 445 inexorable tide?
slender urchin
yeah my chest is scuffed (twist, loyal), but I simmed chest pieces too and they weren't as big as goraks
cobalt pelican
like a realistically obtainable set of gear you might hit before saving 200k residuum is like zaq 435, radiance shoulders 445 blackwater chest 445
slender urchin
I have blackwater chest
cobalt pelican
neat
i'd just check what goraks is looking like comparitively to that set of gear overall
cause it will definitely be an upgrade
but it might only be like 600 or so then and it might change your mind on 200ksaving
slender urchin
my first gamble was mantle of fastidious machinations
p bad
but its passable as OL
cobalt pelican
at least they're dungeonababble right
i think anyway at least they're not sanguines
all i've done to your gear here is add zaqul heroic helmet
and radiance shoulders on mythic
and while goraks is still an upgrade i would not consider 394 worth saving 200k for
whether you see that and decide that you're neverlucky to get those 2 pieces or decide the 400 is still worth hardsaving is up to you really but
just worth considering what your gearing paths are before committing to saving
slender urchin
Interesting
Good points
I guess I'll just gamble and worst case scenario I'll likely get Zaq helm/Radiance shoulders along the way
cobalt pelican
that's more or less what i'm doing yeah, especially since the other gambled pieces are usually useful for something if not raiding
slender urchin
I appreciate the input
heavy trail
am i gimping myself if i run BOE / LD in dungeons? Also trying to find someone with the engineers helmet experience and let me know how they configure it for specifically m+ if they use it
sour wasp
how do you guys use vanish in m+? for st or big packs?
i never considered actually using vanishes for mobs but makes sense
cobalt pelican
i try to avoid using it st unless it's like a super annoying mob or a boss
other than that i basically just use it on the next pack i'll get full value either of 6garrote (not ideal), or 3 -> 3 (long pack life, ideal but depends on the key lvl whether this is doable)
sour wasp
i guess it's worth it only if they live long enough
dusky tinsel
@heavy trail BoTE is one of the better M+ essences if you have rank 3, engineer helm for M+ you'd run twist+relational normalization gizmo
crystal vessel
For CLF, I am supposed to use it after my "garrote > rupture> garrote" window, prior to Vendetta?
garrote>rupture>garrote>CLF>Vendetta>TB>
in logs I see people pop it before their opener. which is why im asking.
Condensed Life-Force:
In the opener, after MA/Subt window, before vendetta and then on cooldown as it's not buffed by any of your other Rogue abilities. Minor gain in some situations holding for 3rd Vendetta (Providing you don't miss a cast) due to the haste procs. I know the pins say this. But just wondering if they are using it out of sync.
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
cobalt pelican
ya before vendetta, all the info you need is in the paragraph you pasted idk who you're looking at that casts it before opening
crystal vessel
Can I post a picture of the timeline? I dont want to post entire log of someone else
civic palm
Certain people keep asking the same question, then pasting the same information, then asking the same question again, keep getting the same answer, and then ask the same question.
cobalt pelican
do whatever you want, doubt the player cares
rare pond
But what majors do you run in M+?
crystal vessel
civic palm
People play wrong all of the time, CLF BEFORE VENDETTA.
cobalt pelican
like as soon as you get in combat regardless of anything that will show in the damage timeline
even if you don't press the button
my own logs for reference
(ashvane so isn'tpopped till like 1min w/e point should get across)
crystal vessel
Ah. Gotcha. Thank you.
crimson condor
you guys have any suggestions for this m+ sim? not a fan of the traits https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nVvK1p8kvb6uPgsw7G6ddf
bleak spoke
Man I think if you pull ashvane without cds you probably should open g m r
pale cave
best major essence to use for raid? I've got rank 3 void of perf, and life force I usually use... but just got void 3 to test out and not sure
cobalt pelican
i doubt there's really much difference with or without cds for the opener difference
civic palm
It's more about making sure things are not misaligned later on.
pale cave
ok
civic palm
As most buffs stack with each other and work together better when stacked.
cobalt pelican
in hindsight i shoulda probably played cyclo over my low ilvl coral and g m r cyclo'd or something maybe
civic palm
For Ashvane?
civic palm
IMO if you BL @ the start of a fight you can probably get Cyclo in there without MUCH disruption, but you're better off hitting it after Vendetta/TB is gone.
median hedge
^
cobalt pelican
it's just kinda awkward in general because i either tb first (the logical thing to do) and miss the 2nd cyclo on burn or i press cyclo first and delay my tb like 10 seconds
yeah i mean this is specifically referring to some
civic palm
Delay Cyclo .
cobalt pelican
scuffed non-normal opener
civic palm
Unless you are using Cyclo outside of buffs/debuffs to the boss that amp. its damage, delay it.
cobalt pelican
delaying cyclo is definitely better for dps over the course of the fight but it means losing 200-300k damage during burn
idk
cause the timing is like 1-2 globals to fit it in again
civic palm
I don't think there's been a singular button like Cyclo since like... that NH trinket.
That escapes my mind atm.
cobalt pelican
zappertron 4000
civic palm
Draught of Souls
Cyclo even scales o _O with things, something that trinkets since DoS really have not done for SIN.
cobalt pelican
it's cool
it's a little awkward that it basically scales with yellow cards which are basically just forges
civic palm
I do think it might be better than Coral unless you're in a DMG intense phase @ 30%.
cobalt pelican
(and crit/vers/haste/etc but in terms of pure trinket scaling)
i should go gamble away my oscillators sometime
civic palm
GL
shut pasture
what's the logic on refreshing dots
how much uptime on the add should be to refresh?
civic palm
Read the wowhead guide, explains it.
hushed meteor
im having serious issues with damage now coming back to this spec after outlaw nerf, i think i have all the wrong azerite parts, the guides havent helped too much in understanding how to get damage as high as im seeing in game
civic palm
If you have a specific question to ask, you could probably get that answered.
hushed meteor
im not sure what the best way to get damage with sin, is it shrouded subtr, or assasin and triple doses?
civic palm
It's simulating your azerite and seeing where you come out.
hushed meteor
id like to use the echoing blades i stacked 3 for mythic plus and its gets bad damage
civic palm
That's not possible.
Unless you're playing wrong and not making sure you have the energy to spam FoK.
hushed meteor
ill check that out now, because this outlaw nerf killed my game at least for me ,, i hope this triple echo will get me bacjk in dungeon play
hushed meteor
let me ask this with triple echo what should my dps be in dungeon?
tidal jetty
thats like asking how much does a car cost
vast forum
dungeon slice 
tidal jetty
atleast its 1 point of reference 
civic palm
Yeah but at the same time, it's a whack point of reference.
and doesn't really teach you anything.
tidal jetty
indeed
hushed meteor
dungeon slice is at 40k
tropic ocean
40k is decent overall
but naturally, especially with 3eb, dungeon slice shows less dps than in real key scenario
Unless tank pulls bad
shut pasture
@civic palm cant find it
nimble tartan
@arctic walrus u were supposed to be #2 bro
hushed meteor
is hidden blade supposed to be used with echo stack?
jolly comet
only place ive seen hidden blade suggested is in the sin pvp guide with an EB stack
civic palm
@shut pasture Can't find the thing I linked to you?
marble elm
@nimble tartan yo that’s toxic bro
severe cradle
Hi, whats better, azshara/coral or coral/pocket?
drifting cloud
well this is the correct channel for toxicity 
marble elm
This channel is supposed to be a beacon of positivity
civic palm
This channel is the sewage runoff of the FOTM spec flip-floppers that can't figure out what they want to do and just chase what other people tell them is better.
hushed meteor
well for me i just started playing this xpac and im just trying to figure something that works, added this channel to see if others were seeing the same issue
drifting cloud
are your chest and helm 435?
marble elm
Unless you are done with prog u should gamble
frosty obsidian
with 3eb 1 ttk 2 dd should i run MA or subterfuge or m+
lean coral
chest and helm are 435 yet
civic palm
inb4 4000x increase in cost :3
tribal marlin
I think you should still run suberfuge @frosty obsidian because it allow you to get 3 bleed in 3 globals
and give you high energy regen directly
crimson condor
sim says razor coral + socketed dice > spyglass + socketed dice for m+
no idea how to use razor in m+ though
tribal marlin
while you'll need to do at very least 3 fok and 3 rupture to get to the same point
nimble tartan
@marble elm im sorry forgive me
civic palm
😐
fleet whale
distant mesa
anyone have a good Mut Rogue weak aura? I just got back into Rogue after playing Fury warrior all xpac
civic palm
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
distant mesa
thank you!
frosty obsidian
does disenchanting give the same residium as scrapping
civic palm
empty crescent
does anyone know the name of the website that scans your char and tells you where to get upgrades
empty crescent
I remember using a nice one on browser but
ah
that would be the one, thanks
takes a while for the gear to update but oh well
crimson condor
sim saying razor is 1.2k improvement over spyglass for m+ -> not buying it https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tuVZi8WrNJtKcEsCJWNzeB
civic palm
k
idle ember
I'm sure it's been answered a million bazillion times, but I'm late to the party. Font on pull, tab coral when it's up 30 seconds later.. when do you use coral again?
stone pilot
check tc updates it has the rundown
bleak spoke
Damn
marble elm
we have some dps check wipes that we shouldnt have
dh quit the game 150 pulls in with no notice so
had to miss a day to gear one in heroic
from scratch
arctic walrus
Areyou still lusting start of p2
marble elm
currently yea
yea just a pretty unfortunate scenario all around
had to bring new people in as a result and a fresh character and then those people cant make it because they didn't expect to be in so had to bring in more new people
aids
civic palm
😐
rough veldt
what haste % should i have for ST/raiding typically
civic palm
There's no typical amount.
rough veldt
i got only 13% rn and i feell like thats hella low
vale quest
what is the order i should get benthic
vale quest
thx
steep obsidian
anyone had a problem with cycltronic trinket randomly not working randomly in mecha? like greying out as if it not equipped
sudden ocean
@arctic walrus what Azerite traits did you use for Org?
civic palm
Wits :3
calm bough
Is there a BiS three pieces for M+ from the residium trader?
lime marsh
So from guides, I saw that crimson tempest was "Relatively" viable in M+, is that still true? And if so, is it a higher priority to cast than rupture on AOE?
lime marsh
BFA guide. Guessing that it's just completely wrong?
civic palm
CT probably works on very very large pulls, PBOMB's damage is just too consistent and Echoing Blades makes pressing Fan of Knives deal too much damage to even press CT.
drifting cloud
relatively viable just means its not utter garbage, but it hasnt really been a thing since s1
cobalt gyro
also you run twist traits a lot of the time, now
civic palm
Yeah Twist the Knife has led to many more finishers, proccing PBOMB even more.
lime marsh
I've got triple twist atm
civic palm
Others you'd just smash FoK though > _>
TtK and SS are better when the pulls are smaller, EB is better once you're consistently pulling 5+ targets.
Probably 4+.
lime marsh
That's good to know. I stopped running echoing blades in M+ because I felt like I just wasn't getting nearly enough damage out of it (Tanks were always pulling about 4)
civic palm
Just make sure you are making enough energy and smash the shit out of FoK.
vale quest
how much % dmg does each benthic give, is there a chart
civic palm
That's a bit reductive but ye.
vale quest
the proccs
civic palm
Nope, that's gonna depend on your other items, though you could just use RaidBots to Gear Compare.
Akana's Boots crit is like a .5 - 1% DPS increase
vale quest
and bracers?
vale quest
i might do belt first the bracer seems too rng
civic palm
Boots first IMO.
vale quest
i hav those
civic palm
Nice.
There's a few good bracers btw.
So just Sim the ones you get that have a socket and see for yourself.
deft nymph
isn't it just frost and puffer
vale quest
i honestly rather have just boss drops from raid be bis
instead of doing nazjatar on my 8 alts mind numbing wqs
civic palm
Neri's Ori's and Puffers are all good, some other better than others.
Neri's being the worst.
rigid mango
Neri's is a bit behind dps wise tho, right?
civic palm
Yeah well when you ain't got the other ones > _>
rigid mango
Fuck upgrading it though
civic palm
Eh getting it to 415 is super cheap.
rigid mango
Belt's really good for aoe
vale quest
i mean less variants for belt
rigid mango
Like, it's the best of the damage benthic on aoe
civic palm
Both are good there though, so it's waaaaaaaaaaay easier.
rigid mango
Yeah, honestly if you're struggeling for pearls, belt is higher prio for sure
civic palm
or even maybe a socket that you have a low item level item in and no socket.
Where just the socket is going to be a decent upgrade.
jolly garden
ay bois whats the bis helm for ST
civic palm
Unmooring or uhhhh, that other one.
rigid mango
Zaqul helm
jolly garden
what abt from dungeons?
rigid mango
Loa one
jolly garden
also for st i should be using master assassin with the right traits right?
civic palm
Unless you don't want to SUB, is totally fine and you're not gonna ruin yourself picking it.
But it is mathematic worse on pure ST.
That comma is in the WRONG place.
jolly garden
oh ok ok
civic palm
and I ain't editing it.
civic palm
huh?
jolly garden
Ty for the info guys
civic palm
The comma should be like;
"Unless you don't want to, SUB is totally..."
Remember to 
for updates.
rigid mango
I know, but "mathematic worse"
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
civic palm
Fuck that guide 
jolly garden
i may or may not be doing something wrong but i simmed all bis gear at 430 with st traits and I still sim higher with sub
civic palm
I didn't even know this
the call out
Could just be your shit Traits, SIN relies on them more than you might think.
jolly garden
I simmed basically all bis traits and gear
rigid mango
Wdym fuck that guide 
rigid mango
And MA
marble elm
Yea that too
rigid mango
All 3 are equally asked
civic palm
I need to check these to make sure they're not still whack.
jolly garden
i simmed like 200 dps higher with MA over SUB but it says i sim higher with the irontides captains helm rather than the zaqul helm
civic palm
Anyway, the RH guide is just too simple atm, and Mystler's SIN guide is very thorough.
rigid mango
I've not read mystler's
I'm gonna see if weak wants to redo the sin one w me and mac
civic palm
1.) It's right.
2.) It's thorough.
3.) He links my WA's.
rigid mango
Ah, bonus points for the last one huh
civic palm
At this point redoing the RH guide is a waste of time unless you're at least going to compete with Mystler's.
3 is more a joke.
civic palm
Again?
shy dust
Afenars WA is clean af tho
civic palm
Course.
rigid mango
Half of my current ones are just space clogging atm
civic palm
Well if you need something just ping me and sacrifice the required League of Legends developer.
rigid mango
I'm even unsure which packet I'm using tbh
I'm sure gonna ping, unsure about the sacrifice though
Maybe the guy who made yuumi.
civic palm
If nothing else, deleting it all and starting over from the Templates is a smart move.
Take the nice shit you like and put them in yours.
rigid mango
I'm just deleting all my rogue ones and getting yours
And then if I have an issue with it I'll ping like faster than lightning
Although I expect you to be asleep half of the time
civic palm
I do wish you could comment on what a specific condition does, etc.
I am usually awake but not at a computer with Discord on it.
rigid mango
Who knows, maybe your wa's are so simple even I can do it
civic palm
They're pretty straight-forward.
rigid mango
See, maybe enough for someone like me
arctic walrus
@sudden ocean uh for assassination I just went my regular ST build but ran iris idk
civic palm
on Org?
arctic walrus
I wasn't gonna swap azerite for a farm boss cut me some slackkkk
civic palm
I was more wondering on Prog.
rigid mango
Vel 
civic palm
on farm do w/e the fuuuuuuck you want.
arctic walrus
Prog I went outlaw
civic palm
nods
arctic walrus
I don't think a single assassination parse showed up until like week 2 or something
rigid mango
Myeh maybe
rigid mango
I'm gonna run 3 eb sin next orgo 
civic palm
yeeeeeeeeeee
vale quest
are all of the bracers better than hands?
arctic walrus
With new nerf though, eb might be better suited tbh
civic palm
What's the timer on the adds?
vale quest
which is easier to get
rigid mango
Idk, from logs I looked at
arctic walrus
probably 30s
rigid mango
You trade 7k ish add damage for 3k boss damage
civic palm
fff
rigid mango
If you go 3 eb sin vs outlaw
sudden ocean
Ye I was thinking like 3eb, 2ss and a ttk
arctic walrus
tbh I compared my boss dmg outlaw vs sin and it was almost the same
sudden ocean
Am gonna try outlaw though, see how it goes
civic palm
Should be similar minus add dmg.
civic palm
If there were 2 more adds EB would be much better.
rigid mango
Post nerf there's patching up to do damage wise
civic palm
but there's noooooooooooot.
civic palm
Will be fun once we get to it like 3 months after Classic Prog. is done.
civic palm
Yeah but that's not the saaaaaaaaaaaame, though still good.
rigid mango
It's funny
arctic walrus
3 more
civic palm
5+boss?
arctic walrus
7 including boss
rigid mango
It's 6+boss, right?
rigid mango
3 zoatroid + 3 nagas + boss
civic palm
more zoas ahhhh
civic palm
Fuuuuuuck yeah.
rigid mango
Like my prev disc name
civic palm
Spine?
rigid mango
"3EB weee wooo helicopter spin"
civic palm
weewoo
rigid mango
Weeeewooooooooo
civic palm
🚑 🚁 🔥
rigid mango
civic palm
o _o
arctic walrus
you want me to get one?
rigid mango
Yes (:
civic palm
I have to fix this one anyway
arctic walrus
Where do you even get ideas to look
civic palm
Get a large folder of weeb shit or attractive women.
rigid mango
I can't have attractive women because people hate on me
So I get stupid shit instead.
arctic walrus
Too much responsibility I can't do it
arctic walrus
The only time I have to think for a second is soaks and los
rigid mango
Sounda correct to me
untold marsh
Am I the only one performing better on sin then outlaw in m+ ?
civic palm
Probably not.
rigid mango
Sounds good, keep it up
arctic walrus
Don't @ me no more I'm goin to bed 
untold marsh
Dinged 50k overall on UR17 yesterday
civic palm
Oh that that'll stop people.
untold marsh
Any1 else testing both specs in m+?
rigid mango
@arctic walrus nn 
sleep well
Yes, a lot are
But I can't compare my sin vs outlaw experience because I havn't pushed enough keys, the variance key to key is too high and I'm far better at sin than I am outlaw
untold marsh
I am running 2 of each azerites (SS EB Envenom)
But i lack on st is this normal?
Its performing really good on trash
civic palm
Yep.
rigid mango
Sounds like sin
civic palm
SS and EB do nothing for ST, so.
rigid mango
Ss does
civic palm
Nope.
rigid mango
Nah
civic palm
Bosses are like 25-30% dungeon damage.
civic palm
They will die and it's not 1-2 traits that are going to change anything.
rigid mango
30k seems more than fine?
rigid mango
You're comparing yourself to some of the most ST oriented specs
who do fuckall on trash comparativly
untold marsh
Yeah, but youn know ppl.. “you are sin rogue best ingame fir ST” 😂😂
civic palm
Tellem to fuckoff you're smashing FoK.
rigid mango
untold marsh
😄
civic palm
If you wanna hittem with some information;
Just tellem that your traits are too one-sided to do well on both.
rigid mango
^
untold marsh
yup
rigid mango
That being said, you are running 4 ST traits so your ST isn't as bad as you think
Just not comparable to those specs
I run the same setup and I consistantly sit in the top 2 in dps
Unless I get fucking blasted by someone
I think you're severely over estimating the value of ST damage
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
Just saying miz, that poison one is great.
untold marsh
Ty 😃
quasi pewter
🔫
rigid mango
dw I'm on same grind jsut waaaay behind you
rigid mango
What's the daily shit I need to do?
drifting cloud
av also has the 1k honor quest that you can complete in 2 min, and you can do it on both sides
rigid mango
I've not gotten AV a single time during last 3 days
And is that quest weekly or daily?
drifting cloud
its a one time quest afaik
rigid mango
Ah
frigid briar
You get the quest for horde and alliance
So 2 AV wins with quest gives 3k if use merc mode for one of them
rigid mango
no need for merc already ally 
drifting cloud
AV quest that gives honor isnt a win, you just loot one of the items for the summon boss and bring it back
Ashran one is the same thing, only WG one is to win
rigid mango
So you just go around illing small shit or smth?
drifting cloud
you can just loot the mini boss in the barracks which both sides usually rush for at the start
rigid mango
Aight
drifting cloud
also if you get Ashran Zine, just do the quest and take deserter, its not worth it
rigid mango
Cool, leaving now (:
drifting cloud
it always goes down to 0 score and it takes legit 1h if not more, ive only won it once
grand matrix
Hey guys for one single target set, what would u stack Twist the knife or Nothing personnal ?
for mm+ 🙂
grand matrix
Ok thanks !
bleak spoke
Man I’m playing 222 again with severe rust and glaring rotational errors in scuffed keys with 420 azerite and in the same keys at around same key levels I’m slamming my own overall on outlaw
This is actually absurd
My outlaw gear pumps :/
opaque stump
hey guys so whats the best way to use condensed life-force for assa in raid
grand matrix
i'm doing good dmg on some 14 key with my 420 Echoing blade x3 ^^