assassination

[rigid mango]

But it works in the way of giving you flat mastery + an added amount for each other person (within 40 yards) that also has loyal, capped at 4 other people

When someone dies with a loyal trait on, everyone within 20y gets all of the stats instead of just mastery which is a lot

[visual mesa]

So in general you dont use unless 4 ppl are using?

[rigid mango]

@opal meadow http://prntscr.com/opwibz pls don't link outlaw vs sin logs in a fight with cleavable targets

Diff specs do diff things

[opal meadow]

i feel like sin was at the top though

[visual mesa]

Thanks 😊

[opal meadow]

last time i looked

[rigid mango]

@visual mesa like I said, you can sim the diff, from what I've found even at 2 ish others w loyal it's still v good

but you're looking at reclear parses

where people are allowed to parse their minds away as outlaw with cleavable objects

I mean what do u expect

[opal meadow]

yeah true..

[rigid mango]

Ronkels out dmg'd me yesterday on our rekill

but i'm 99% sure I did more boss damage

[opal meadow]

(my color is yellow but i haven't played outlaw in forever) im a sin main.
you 100% did more boss damage unless he got lucky rolls

[rigid mango]

Yep, he did 1k more overall, but I did 3k more boss damage

[mellow swift]

Does anybody know if inkpod is boosted by Vendetta?

[rigid mango]

It's not

vendetta is whitelisted so doesn't boost non rogue abiulities

just like tb doesn't boost nature damage, like MA doesn't give crit

[opal meadow]

what does tb boost

[rigid mango]

Nature damage, but not outside of rogue abilities

[opal meadow]

oh yeah yeah

[rigid mango]

Like for example, doesn't give 30% more inkpod damage

etc

but yeah, any fight where wits can act efficiently, good chance outlaw logs are higher but not always valued higher

[fallow otter]

@rigid mango when you said gambled bis helm which one

[rigid mango]

on ashvane it depends on comp etc

The dd swirl op one

highest for u too

[fallow otter]

ah ok

so we just ditching NP then?

or is that assuming we np on goraks

[severe sedge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kLRhxfwDH9kpBHQUFhpic4

wtf?

[opal meadow]

?

benthic gear is bis

[severe sedge]

did the changes, gets less sim than you got @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

You're simming weekly not dailu

and I've changed all the consumables to the correct ones 😄

@fallow otter uhh yeah I suppose, I've got tent laced shoulders so that's where I get my NP from

It should be better if you run np on goraks, I think

[fallow otter]

if thats the case, i would have thought the other helm would be better, unless they are saying the swirling>bbi which i guess is exactly what its saying

[rigid mango]

just do a quicksim with random shit

[strange python]

Outlaw is good on Ashvane though

[rigid mango]

and let me fuck about with ur sim

I'm boored

I'm not saying outlaw's bad, I'm just saying it's comp based

if you need bubble damage, outlaw is good

but if you don't, there's no reason to take outlaw over a sin, sin does disgusting boss damage

[strong folio]

Outlaw gets cucked also if your group has alot or immunity classes

[strange python]

Yea idk, obviously rng based

[rigid mango]

Sin has high variance too

[strange python]

And strat dependent

[rigid mango]

It's more just like

if you can't utilise wits well enough

there's 0 reason to play outlaw over sin, if minmaxing

if not, that 3k boss dmg diff between me and outlaw wont matter to you anyways

[strong folio]

Sin doesn't give you the 5 buffs feeling tho xD

[faint harness]

Neither does outlaw

[rigid mango]

99/100 times it doesn't

literally

[strange python]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K3Z6XWpgy28JRdLz/#fight=last&type=damage-done big outlaw single target

[rigid mango]

I wont play outlaw for the chance at 1/100 times get a 5 buff feeling

[strange python]

Think it can be better than sin

[strong folio]

It did twice for me on the same pull on orgozoa

Man I was cumin hard

[rigid mango]

he did 2.5k less boss damage than you

[strange python]

Compared to other classes though

[rigid mango]

2.6k, even

[strange python]

Still

[rigid mango]

Of course, wits stacks means funneling boss damage

[strange python]

He didn’t get good rolls

[rigid mango]

but it wont beat sin

[strange python]

Not convinced. We’ll see with better gear

[rigid mango]

I mean, sin is a stupidly broken spec for boss damage

I don't think there's any class apart from boomies maybe(?) that can keep up in boss damage

[strange python]

Shaman

[strong folio]

Shaman for sure

Without adds to dot even

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/opwzaq

yeah

[strong folio]

Dh is super good tho

[rigid mango]

I forgot about them

[strong folio]

Those charts are pepega

Who even plays survival and sub

[rigid mango]

Enough people in the 75% percentile, but yeah

It's all anecdotal info

[harsh sphinx]

142 sub rogues

[rigid mango]

but I don't think there's a way outlaw>sin boss dmg

[faint harness]

surprised its 142

[rigid mango]

Fuu and 141 alts

[fallow otter]

im with @rigid mango i think its more of a raid comp decision

[rigid mango]

[strong folio]

75% percentile also is like meh

[harsh sphinx]

compared to 9k outlaw and 28k assa it's pretty embarrassing

[strong folio]

Honestly sin is just easy to play with

[rigid mango]

It's good enough to understand what the general pop is doing

[strong folio]

Easier than shaman

[rigid mango]

and yeah

like

sin has 3x outlaw has

And it averages muuuch higher

[strong folio]

Yeah

Outlaw is actually harder to play well on raid bosses I feel like, specially cause of the rng

[rigid mango]

I don't think there's any logical reasoning to say that outlaw > sin boss damage unless maybe on orgo with perma wits?

nop, outlaw still far behind

[strange python]

Can you get full wits uptime on Gorgonzola?

[rigid mango]

Aslong as you have BF up, you have wits

There's always adds

[strong folio]

My biggest dylema on orgozoa is vigor vs deeper strat. I sim raid fights 4 targets 2 mins and with whatever gear combination. Alot of haste, less haste, more crit versa, etc vigor still Sims higher

But then everyone plays deeper strat

[rigid mango]

#outlaw

[strong folio]

And it feels so much better to play

But but...

[tropic ocean]

@rigid mango wdym it doesn't happen as little as one might thin

think*

[rigid mango]

hm?

[tropic ocean]

https://prnt.sc/opxak5

now I can stop play outlaw and farm underrot 😄

[winter moss]

[fallow otter]

those binds 😮

[faint harness]

whats wrong with them

personally wouldnt ever use 6

[steep obsidian]

maybe he has mutant hands or something

[faint harness]

but the rest seems fine

[fallow otter]

thats some flexibility being able to use 1 and H

[steep obsidian]

whatever works for him

[fallow otter]

hey im not criticizing but it is a shock that it exists

[faint harness]

i dont have big hands but reaching H from WASD isnt difficult

[fallow otter]

lol

[quartz depot]

h is easy with your thumb

[steep obsidian]

has anyone used rank 3 puri protocol on Mythic Orgozoa? and yes I've simmed it, couldnt find any decent logs using it so was curious

[faint harness]

its probably decent

[steep obsidian]

it sims well

[faint harness]

i ran with rocky boi for ST dps

[steep obsidian]

or i wouldnt bother to ask

yeah

i think just have to balance what raid comp needs

see how it goes and experiment

[faint harness]

We got our reclear today, and i'll play outlul visions with LD, its gonna happen

[coarse lichen]

How much haste are you guys going for these days? I've been getting more crit and dropping haste with lucid dreams but it's dropped as low as 12% now. Simming different bits with more haste but it's still actually saying I take a dps cut. 12% feels too low

[tropic ocean]

I take what sim tells me

[steep obsidian]

sims don't normally lie but the sim might feel horrendous to play

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tropic ocean]

having low haste is natural with lucid major

[steep obsidian]

id take a small dps hit for not wanting to gouge my eyes out personally

dont shoot me 😛

[coarse lichen]

well when I'm in the lucid phase sure it's fine. but outside I feel like its a bit slow to regen

[tropic ocean]

with clf it will tell u to increase hase again

haste*

[lone mirage]

Is bentic boots good even without socket? I cant sim cause of ilvl will false it

[edgy pawn]

im playing lucid major and haste is still bis stat by far

lol

[tropic ocean]

@lone mirage yes but it depends on ur other boots

on my alt 400 unsocketed were 300smth dps up over my 430

[coarse lichen]

yeah I gave up trying to get a socket

[lone mirage]

My other has socket but bad stats

[tropic ocean]

so for the time being I just sue 400 non socketed while rolling socketed ones

[steep obsidian]

the only boots i reckon taht might be better is if you are lucky enough to get socketed tf stormglide steps but who the hell does crucible anyway

[tropic ocean]

nah

[fallow otter]

@lone mirage you can use droptimizer

[lone mirage]

Yes , i just up the boots to 400 and sim it lol , we will see

[tropic ocean]

you can manipulate the ilvl

in the string field

[lone mirage]

O shit

I dunno

[fallow otter]

in droptimizer you can just choose ilvl you want to sim and socket also, unless this is a paid only feature

[faint harness]

Think its locked behind paywall

[fallow otter]

well in that case, if you link a sim i can do it for you if you like @lone mirage

[lone mirage]

Yes

A quicksim?

[fallow otter]

I'll pm you

[drifting flame]

when do you guys usually refresh garrote/rupture?

[rigid mango]

between hitting pandemic and timing out

[drifting flame]

how many seconds left on garrote before you'd refresh it?

[rigid mango]

5.4

and 7.2 on 5 cp rupture

[sullen sphinx]

On ashvane how much of a loss is it if we’re told to pop vendetta on pull but hold clf until shield breaks

[potent raft]

not that much..

[rigid mango]

None

[winter moss]

you wont lose a cast anyway so none

[rigid mango]

You lose literally 0

[sullen sphinx]

Oh so the haste from clf during vendetta isn’t a big deal?

[potent raft]

dont you gain some 10% haste during vendetta that you lose?

[rigid mango]

The only loss would be you not playing as well bec not knowing how to play it

but that's easily fixable wwith some exp on fight

oh you said hold clf

I mean I'd just hold everything

unless u nead the p1 damage

need*

[sullen sphinx]

So there is a loss from not using vendetta and clf together

[potent raft]

it depends a lot on your kill time. but it will be about 7-7:30

our guild decided to not hold anything, and just lust at 6mins (aligning both 3min and 2min cds)

[rigid mango]

Very small

talking like 0.5% or smth

[sullen sphinx]

Ok cool

[potent raft]

i have a question about enchants:
if say quick navigation and force multiplier sim the same (10 dps difference) which one do you pick

[faint harness]

the one that sims 10 dps higher

[winter moss]

10 dps is not worth atall

[potent raft]

i was having a discussion with a guildie how FM is more consistent and with navigation you rely on stacks and rng

[winter moss]

considering you have 0.05% targeterror

[faint harness]

I can see myself running deadly/quick

doesnt make a big difference (hence the 10 dps diff)

[winter moss]

i run deadly + quick also

force multiplier sims shit for me

[potent raft]

I can see myself running deadly/quick
i am running that, and he's trying to argue that in real-life scenarios FM is better because it's more consistent

because not all fights are patchwerk

[winter moss]

^

[faint harness]

Well i havent done any indepth runthrough of my logs comparing the 2

so actually dont know

[winter moss]

you either stick to FM or take quick

it literally doesnt matter at this point

whatever's cheaper

[faint harness]

But you can just check uptimes and i dunno if wowanalyzer supports new enchants yet, but it usually has an average gained from weapon enchants

[winter moss]

well uptime should be somewhat the same

[potent raft]

But you can just check uptimes
did that, they are quite similar

[faint harness]

So..

Yea

Not worthy of having an argument over

[winter moss]

noone is having an argument over it

[faint harness]

Him and his friend

[potent raft]

i was interested in the wider opinion

[faint harness]

[potent raft]

which is basically - it doesnt matter

😄

[winter moss]

discussion != argument

but yea doesnt matter at all

[faint harness]

I wouldnt put much weight to words

[winter moss]

BUT i would sim it from time to time to see where the trend goes

i see the future being 2 nav enchants again

even more that haste enhances rokyboi

[rigid mango]

idk man

idk why people are getting force to sim worse

🤔

[winter moss]

idk

but i trust in simgod

[faint harness]

its a 40 dps difference for me, in favor of quick nav

[winter moss]

bigtime

[potent raft]

for me it's 12 in favor of quick nav

[rigid mango]

It's a like, 0.2% dps gain over nav for me

idk what changed

It seems like everyone had it become slightly worse

And I mean other classes too

[faint harness]

I simmed it few weeks ago too, and it was always close

[quasi pewter]

few days ago quick deadly was best now i run quick force again but its literally like 5 dps difference on my top gear

[rigid mango]

It used to be a bigger diff than this for me

[potent raft]

for rogues, i wonder if it's because of LTTE, that since it increases mastery, it makes haste more valuable

[rigid mango]

uhh, wouldn't say it makes haste more valuable

[faint harness]

Doubts, i dont have a lot of mastery, even with LTTE

[rigid mango]

It just makes mastery less valuable

Crit is still the best by far for me

and that's with a swirling on my head too so idk

[potent raft]

i have them all almost equalized

[rigid mango]

Crit > haste >>vers >>> mast for me or smth iirc

[faint harness]

haste/crit equalized, vers slightly behind and mastery quite a bit behind

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/opo7yd

That was what it was when I checked yesterday

[winter moss]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nDuiC5Do9LvnpgAneZc9TV no diffrence at all

[rigid mango]

15 dps

[quasi pewter]

i have like 1,8k haste and quick force and its still my top weight

[winter moss]

target error

[faint harness]

i run 1.8k crit and deadly force and its still up there

[rigid mango]

my crit is 1.4k and haste 1.5k and it LOVES crit still

[faint harness]

21% haste but mastery is quite low, about 40% with full LTTE stack

[winter moss]

mastery fell behind a bit since essences

[potent raft]

i have 2 options
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7SYYLFKtsud76dVUkUHZju
vs
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pgAGYksF7HD7LnB7pidenK

topgear says the first 😄

[winter moss]

take whatever

[strange python]

worldvein resonance always sims high in a secondary for me. Is it assuming other people are using it too?

[faint harness]

4 others iirc

which is almost certainly not the case in most melee setups

[strange python]

yeah that's the vibe im getting

thanks for the clarity mate

[faint harness]

gotta wait for that 65 in neck for worldvein

[rigid mango]

@strange python it's giga simbait, it's not usable in most cases and sims insanely high but realistically wont do much at all

You can pretty much ignore it straight up on sims unless you're doing a specific boss where it works.

[fickle abyss]

hey i got the ashvane twinket i not shure when to use it to get the crit buff any help?

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah

[rigid mango]

Apply as soon as you can

use on each vend and reapply after

rinse repeat.

[fickle abyss]

ah ok

[potent raft]

or read this: https://discordapp.com/channels/124169701881282560/228879086515126272/606865578568712397

[strange python]

i've been finding font + coral confusing as hell. maybe im just a bit slow in the head

[potent raft]

oh wait..that's assuming font nvm

[faint harness]

font early, vendetta, activate coral ASAP

[scarlet sequoia]

im not!

[faint harness]

[scarlet sequoia]

1 level a week

[ripe bone]

Azshara's Font of Power now correctly removes stealth and applies Subterfuge when channeled by a stealthed Rogue. - Now iam sad

[strange python]

😦

[faint harness]

RIP all the 10 ppl that used subterfuge

[scarlet sequoia]

just wait, im getting a 455 weapon on saturday

[ripe bone]

Problem is now u cant get into shadowstep range

[faint harness]

GT not raiding today then?

Proph what

You can

its not like the aggro range is 20 yards

[scarlet sequoia]

today is alt raid day!

hell yeah

[ripe bone]

iam afraid of making facepulls ^^

[faint harness]

been font with MA since i got it and it hasnt been a problem

this change doesnt matter much unless its pvp

[manic pivot]

hey guys, I have a question regarding envenom, is it beneficial in a PVE setup to use it at 4 combo points or always at 5?

[faint harness]

4+

[waxen nacelle]

MA with Shrouded Suffication?

[faint harness]

I wouldnt run SS

[cobalt gyro]

If you have no other options SS isn't terrible

But it you're running ss, always subterfuge

[strange python]

silly rotation question, but couldn't find it in the ravenholdt guide. But using vanish with MA mid fight, do I bother holding vanish for toxic blade? or is vanish > mut > rupture > mut > envenom fine?

[rigid mango]

You hold shit for tb, yeah

unless you'll lose a cast of vend/vanish by doing it

[strange python]

thanks again mate. super helpful.

U think better is gonna be nerfed some day?

Benthic

[rigid mango]

SInce it's not been nerfed yet, I doubt it

Why would they, just like CLF probs

[strange python]

Oh man

I never farmed pearls because I hoped for a nerf

[faint harness]

Mistakes were made

[strange python]

But as the dps boost is so big I think I’m gonna need to farm

[faint harness]

if they intended to nerf the items they would have already

[strange python]

8.2 annoys me for playing DD... benthic items that need thousands of pearls to hope for good procs, pvp essences that are in some way BiS for PVE etc ...

[faint harness]

also, just having 420+ items with sockets would have been good regardless if it had an effect or not

from the beginning of 8.2

[strange python]

I’ve had at least 30 benthic items even I didn’t farm and never had a socket that’s why I hate it so much

And don’t look forward to it

I really hate my rogue atm to be honest😂

Not one socket, total crap traits on the 430/445 items, no benthic, no pvp essence

[sullen sphinx]

Do you only take damage from upsurge if you get hit by it

Had a muppet take 2 mill damage from it on 12 wipes last night lmao

[faint harness]

yes

he must have stood in about 10 of them

does about 200k each

[lusty narwhal]

Think my guild is cursed

4 weeks, 2 corals, 0 azshara staffs

seemsgood

[strange python]

My guild didnt get a single coral till this Tuesday

[lethal heart]

rng

[lusty narwhal]

busted

no dagger or hunter bow from first boss either

no azerite from radiance

[strange python]

I swim in 430 azerite lol

But still rocking 410 Trinkets

[small thicket]

What's the emissary today EU ally?

[young portal]

Proudmore, 200 war resources

[small thicket]

Ta

[tall narwhal]

This chest is pretty decent for assa right ?

https://wowhead.com/item=159330/

[sour wasp]

it makes you play subterfuge

with ss in there

[tall narwhal]

Right, thx

When i Play assa that's my preferred playstyle anyway

However with my current gear, outlaw sims the best in ST as assa

And in cleave outlaw is much better

[sour wasp]

fascinating

😃

[tepid ridge]

on zaqul with BotE / vision with 28% crit baseline + coral

should I repot agi?

repoting 2nd echoe in delirium obviously

[faint quiver]

What prepots did you use guys?

Two times de agility prepot?

[hollow lynx]

I mostly use unbridled fury

[celest ruin]

can raidbots sim potions?

[vagrant tapir]

yes

bottom of the page

extra options

[celest ruin]

oooh thanks didnt know that

[vagrant tapir]

Whos streamed/made sin PoV high parse kills this tier?

Anyone think of anyone?

[winter moss]

try flawless, seliathan

[vagrant tapir]

oh yeah seli

good point

been out of the loop as fuck

[tepid ridge]

flawless if he streamed

[vagrant tapir]

for a hot minute

[tepid ridge]

100%

[vagrant tapir]

Does he make content

?

he streams

:S

[rigid mango]

Yes, twitch.tv/incarnated

[faint quiver]

3600 fire damage for a minute is better than 900 agility for 20?

Mm🤔

[vagrant tapir]

Yes

Significantly so

[faint harness]

it can crit

[deft nymph]

it seems that raidbots will choose agi pots if you let it pick

but if you manually pick unbridled it will do more dmg

[dense cedar]

Finally got the non-abberation belt with socket

woo

[severe bough]

Sockets

[low junco]

does anyone know if worldvein is bugged

people in my guild keep spamming that is bugged n shit

[severe bough]

Haven't heard anything about being bugged

maybe others did idk

[cobalt pelican]

you'd have to get them specify bugged in what way

[winter moss]

lady gaga is it time again?

@severe bough

[low junco]

they are not getting the "supposed stacks"

[winter moss]

maybe they shouldnt move out of the shard range

[severe bough]

@winter moss it is

[cobalt pelican]

not getting stacks compared to what

[severe bough]

Right after i grab breakfast

[cobalt pelican]

like it's not stacking at all?

i don't think anyone will ever get sim uptime on worldvein

[severe bough]

That 420 ring is the lootbox reward from mecha

The system works

[winter moss]

link sim pls

only 15 min left at wörk

[low junco]

no idea

people just saying its bugged

:/

[winter moss]

it is always easier to say something is bugged than admitting oneself is not the brightest lamp

[royal lantern]

yeha, but my dps is bugged

[severe bough]

Ohh

Gimme 2

[solid nova]

#wow-general is that way

[winter moss]

but without evidence or proper explaination it's somewhat random to say it's bugged

[severe bough]

logging on wow, should take a minute

@winter moss

https://pastebin.com/EyF0tcvx

k now im gonna go buy bread

[winter moss]

ill send you the result when im at home

[severe bough]

Kk

[fresh glacier]

Hello! new rogue here. Question on the trait Shrouded Suffocation. Does this garrote snapshot?

[dark crag]

No

If you use garrote outside of stealth(supterfuge) you remove the empowered state

[rotund ridge]

Hey guys,

[fresh glacier]

Thanks Luhmi for the quick responce

[rotund ridge]

New to rogue, it seems i realy under preform in the raid. And wanted some advise from you guys. any tips you can help me out with ?

[lusty narwhal]

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[dense cedar]

Do you have a log? @rotund ridge

[rotund ridge]

yea sec ill look it up

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y6MZqpTDAh7zLGvf/

my char is vanachter

[solid nova]

Your playing master poisoner

Opening with Toxic Blade

[dense cedar]

You want EP

[rotund ridge]

already changed that

[solid nova]

Triple mutilating

[dense cedar]

Is master poisoner a PvP thing cos i see it every so often?

[solid nova]

Yes

[dense cedar]

makes sense

the other two traits do fuck all in that environment

[solid nova]

Your opener changes every fight

And they are all incorrect

[quasi pewter]

you should be using unbridled fury pot

[rotund ridge]

check!

[winter moss]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[winter moss]

go there

read it

take it to heart

pls come again soon

[cold stream]

Is Ashvanes/Azsharas our optimal two trinkets (generally speaking)?

[winter moss]

455 socket both of em

probably

else

[ripe shale]

Hey so what azerite combination is really BiS ? I cant really understand the guide cause i dont know the english short words

[cold stream]

I have a 455 socket Ashvanes 😃 But still using mecha trinket in the other peepeehands

[dense cedar]

Double Dose and Coldsteel the Hedgehog are good traits but you should jsut sim urself

[winter moss]

bis in that context does not exist as you cant have deterministic resources to get the highest simming items

[solid nova]

!abb

[prisma monolith]

Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/

[solid nova]

Short words explained ^

[ripe shale]

Thx that helps me alot more. Since i need to know beforehand what i should look for.

[winter moss]

Nothing Personal, Double Dose, Twist the Knife, Overwhelming Power

[turbid osprey]

Is undulating tides as bait as it feels

[winter moss]

also: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t24-assassination

[dense cedar]

@turbid osprey yes

[winter moss]

yes

[turbid osprey]

Thought so

[ripe shale]

So optimal setup is 3 NP, 1DD and 2 twist the knife ?

For pure singletarget raid setup

[winter moss]

[dense cedar]

naj

i cam get ;ole

nice spelling, me

[rose violet]

Having a stroke?

[dense cedar]

like 4 at once

[winter moss]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/combinations-default/1t-t24-assassination

[ripe shale]

I saw triple NP on someone last week. I guess thats wrong then xD

[winter moss]

just a guideline

[quasi pewter]

optimal would propably be zaqul head gorak tul behemoth chest

[winter moss]

not a bis list

[dense cedar]

its not bad to have it

[winter moss]

@ripe shale head over to raidbots

[dense cedar]

its just depending on your gear the strongest traits change

[winter moss]

run topgear sims

[dense cedar]

most of the time you don't need to choose between them either

[winter moss]

after that run droptimizer sims :)

[spark raft]

SOmeone has a guide to learn how to use Ashvane trinket ?

[winter moss]

[ripe shale]

@winter moss i knoow about raidbots. I sim atleast 3 times a day. I just wanna know what trait comb would be best in raid since i need to gear in 1-3 days.

[winter moss]

Droptimizer

[ripe shale]

Cant do that if i dont have a sim string. My rouge is an abandoned twink 376 right now.

If i use that simstring wouldnt that make huge errors when im simming with 415 stuff ?

[dark crag]

Just sim it

[rose violet]

If your rogue is 376 then pretty much everything is an upgrade

[spark raft]

what does "font" mean in the TC section ?

[median sand]

Oof

[rose violet]

Azshara trinket

[spark raft]

Ok ty

[ripe shale]

I know that 😂
I just wanted a guideline how the 6 traits should be setup normally. Or just a general build.

[dense cedar]

what benthic pieces do u have currently? @ripe shale

[rose violet]

Most people were using 3DD 1NP 1TTK 1BBI for st during crucible

Could still be good now

But doesn’t have to be

New raid trait is also quite strong

If enough people are using it

Not the best tho

[ripe shale]

Benthic pieces are as they supposed to be. Crit boots, phys dmg waist, pufferfish, and frost dmg gloves

[dense cedar]

its in the worldvein issues of needing actually tell people to use it tho

do u also have frost wrist? @ripe shale

[ripe shale]

I do. But i took pufferfisch since there are often add fights in raid. And puffer and frost wrist almost sim same

I guess the more haste i get the more value frost wrists get

[scarlet sequoia]

pufferfish dmg is split

frost ones are better

[ripe shale]

I would just go for 3DD 1NP 1TtK 1ss

For just gearing up

[dense cedar]

Don't take SS

[ripe shale]

Then sim whats best

[dark crag]

Replace ss with anything

[dense cedar]

SS is for m+

[ripe shale]

Wasnt ss nice for the opener for the doubles combo points ?

[dark crag]

Or cleave

[ripe shale]

Or did they nerf it at some point

[dense cedar]

@ripe shale u open with Master Assassin buffed mutilates

[faint harness]

You get 4 cps from MA opener

So that point is moot

[ripe shale]

Oh shit u play this now

I didnt know sry

Didnt u play ss in bod ? Or was it uldir ? I dunno anymore

[rose violet]

Uldir

[ripe shale]

Damn my memory is bad

[faint harness]

Uldir with exsang + SS

[rose violet]

But then they added DD

[ripe shale]

Yeah i played there

So ss only in m+

[dense cedar]

ye

[fossil forge]

Yuh

[dense cedar]

in m+ u just want one cos you use sub

[ripe shale]

So i replace 1ss with optimal one blithbourne

[dense cedar]

get the garenteed 5cp rupture

and spread that dot

if that's what is on ur gear

[fossil forge]

Some rogues stack eb and shrouded but idk takes away from sins identity a bit and ruins the ST

I tend to run a hybrid

[dense cedar]

in M+ EB is super good

and ss + sub helps with the ST loss

[ripe shale]

Na just what im looking for first. Since guild will be rushing trough mythics and normal for 2 days

To help me reroll

[dense cedar]

save ur coins for trinkets and all that of course

[ripe shale]

Ashzara and ashvane i guess ?

[dense cedar]

ye

[fossil forge]

I have font coral now. Such a fun combo

[dense cedar]

inkpod is okay too

usually paired with ashvane

[rose violet]

Who cares about st dps in m+

[ripe shale]

For m+ phial should be nice right ?

[fossil forge]

No

[rose violet]

I gladly sacrifice my st for more aoe

[fossil forge]

Why not just go.outlaw then lol

[ripe shale]

Outlul boring and mainstream

[dense cedar]

SS + sub is good for both in Mythic+ @rose violet

[rose violet]

Cause outlaw sucks

[dense cedar]

triple outlaw is upsetting to see tbh

[ripe shale]

Broken

[fossil forge]

Its rogue in general... if u nerfed outlaw dmg i wouldnt be surprised if u seen them stack sins

Tricks vanish shroud, kick blind stuns

Is what makes us imba in keys

[dense cedar]

Don't forget Shadowmeld @fossil forge

[rose violet]

You wouldn’t stack any other rogue spec

[dense cedar]

:)

[fossil forge]

The damage is a bonus but you would have to nerf blade fury by 25% or more to make it unplayable in keys

[rose violet]

Pretty sure about that

[fossil forge]

Making them a laughable raid spec

Unpractical

[ripe shale]

Yeah but outlul is “ez” to learn. The amount of effort u need to put in to reck in aoe is just non existent

[fossil forge]

The skill is beyond doing numbers

Thats not rogue

[ripe shale]

I know

[dense cedar]

Too much outlaw talk

[ripe shale]

Aight

[dense cedar]

need to stop before we ge-

[fossil forge]

Fair

Sin is more fun to play i wont deny that

[ripe shale]

So 3DD 1 NP 1 TtK and 1 everything except ss for singletarget

What weapons should i try to highroll farm ?

[scarlet sequoia]

a dagger

[dense cedar]

I do enjoy Sin more than Outlaw

[fossil forge]

I would sim Haya.. yesterday it was telling me i sim high with some weird trait combos

[dense cedar]

Goes Sin > Sub > Outlaw for just enjoyment

tho tbh

Outlaw makes me depressed

So its not really fair

[fossil forge]

Sub sin outlaw forsure

[ripe shale]

Lul thanks raz

[fossil forge]

Sub is so much fun but its botched

[scarlet sequoia]

np, happy to help

[dense cedar]

literally just get ilvl on the main hand @ripe shale

[rose violet]

I get some of my enjoyment from big numbers so sub is kinda meh

[ripe shale]

Kk thanx

[fossil forge]

Wouldnt that mean u like sub enifird

Since u get big evis crits

[dense cedar]

sub is the one that does the big instant damage

[rose violet]

I mean big dps

[dense cedar]

just get perfect gear and make the boss not move @rose violet :)

[fossil forge]

I was running some sub keys in s2 memeing

[dense cedar]

ez sub big numbers

[fossil forge]

My priority damage was insane

But the consistent aoe wasnt there at all lol

[rose violet]

Sad times

Just waiting for Richard to ban us all for not following the rules

[bright smelt]

talking about sub in assa channel

[rose violet]

Don’t snitch

[fossil forge]

Probably just me. Forgive me senpai , only assa talk now

Does anyone use inkpod in here? I haven't simmed it but i heard it synergizes with the coral well

[dense cedar]

I miss Kingsbane

[ornate meteor]

do you guys using coral, activate it whenever stack it is during the next tb window? or let it stack 10 then press it with the next tb?

[jolly comet]

i use it on the pull then use it again on next vendetta. i could be wrong though

[dense cedar]

I use it as Ven/Coral > Ven/Coral > Coral > Ven/Coral then just repeat last two from there

Not that you would get too many vendettas

[sour wasp]

you add debuff on pull, consume 2nd vendetta, re add, consume 3rd vendetta etc

[dense cedar]

p. much

tho if the boss has like

10% hp and vendetta isn't gonna be back any time soon

just pop it

[ornate meteor]

okay, i thought i gotta constant pop the coral when its in big stack on tb window, and vendeta tb window

[bright smelt]

question but what do people macro their essence in with? (BotE)

[dense cedar]

What are you macro'ing it to @bright smelt

[bright smelt]

currently nothing

[dense cedar]

its gcd

[bright smelt]

yeah

[dense cedar]

so most things can't be used with it anyways

[bright smelt]

I have 1 macro for vend+on use trinkets

then sepearate button

for essence

[solid nova]

Sounds good to me

[bright smelt]

but it feels awkward pushing

[dense cedar]

u can't really help it

[bright smelt]

F

[dense cedar]

cos Vendetta is also gcd

[strange python]

Do you guys think it's better to run subterfuge on some of the heroic bosses in ep

[rigid mango]

Not really.

Arguably court, but meh gain

[lost horizon]

Queen's court but it's effort

[strange python]

Ok just wondering. We were talking about it last night on ashvane with the britney bubble cleave

[lost horizon]

I could see an argument for azshara too but I haven't fucked with it tbh

[dense cedar]

Why would sub help with that

[lost horizon]

Bubbles shouldn't last long enough for it to get value

[ripe shale]

Soo in the opener section in the guide its written master assasin the old way and the new way

[strange python]

Was just thinking of cleave stuff. Didn't know if anyone found it more useful cleave stuff

[ripe shale]

What does that mean old and new

[dense cedar]

its a dot so if it doesn't last long at all it does nothing

[strange python]

True

[dense cedar]

I miss Venom Rush

[ripe shale]

Vansolo ?

Whats the difference?

Or when should i change the opener sequence?

[dense cedar]

One sec my brain stopped working

uh

Master Assassin talented, the new way

Just do the new way

[ripe shale]

Ok then 😅

[scarlet sequoia]

why even have the old way there 🤣

[dense cedar]

Ask the shadows

[ripe shale]

Shouldn’t i get 4 combo points first then use TB then Vanish into Envenom ?

[scarlet sequoia]

you will have 4 combo points

mutilate garrote is minimum 3

[dense cedar]

Bad Mut + garrote + tb is 4cp

[ripe shale]

Oh right sry

I main feral

[dense cedar]

Like

[ripe shale]

Where 5cps is a must

[dense cedar]

you will often waste the TB combo points

and its still best to do it this way

cos the debuff is v. good

[ripe shale]

Forgot that rouges can finisher can with 4-5 cpa

[dense cedar]

Feral where if u drop a buff for more than 0.5 seconds

all ur snapshots fail and u do 7k dps

[ripe shale]

Oh u know xD

[dense cedar]

btw our bleeds, unless explicity mentioned (aka Subterfuge) don't have snapshots @ripe shale

[ripe shale]

I mean feral is doing great dmg in raid and mythic+

But u just cant join in random groups xD

Yeah i know that. Played assa alot in uldir.

@dense cedar i tip my fedora for u 😃 i thank u alot for helping me so fast and understood my standpoint. Keep it up.

[dense cedar]

My execution may be bad but my brain is huge

[ripe shale]

We will talk about min maxing in 2-3 weeks when i got really into assa

[dense cedar]

Min maxing isn't too hard

[ripe shale]

U have to much versa and to less mastery lol

I mean ur brain

[dense cedar]

Vers fucking blows

stupid stat

[ripe shale]

Reroll ur brainstats xD

I have to much haste and 0 mastery. I just spit out facts into random stuff

[dense cedar]

Remember

Cloak of Shadows can be a dps cooldown

[ripe shale]

Well feral had 50% dmg reduction. Was also a dps cooldown

[dense cedar]

the insticts thing?

or is that only guardian?

[ripe shale]

Yes. Feral has that

[deep meteor]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[ripe shale]

2 stack. 2 minute cooldown. With 3 4th ring traits u get 100k absorb on top of that

Was a big dps cooldown 😅

Well if i talk shit anytime soon. Im sorry but i guess i will be here more often now

[gleaming viper]

still CLF before vendetta with MA new way ?

[dense cedar]

I would assume so @gleaming viper

MA runs out > CLF > Ven

[rigid mango]

Should all be in pins.

[gleaming viper]

ty, another point, do you use TB if you have 4 cp ?

[dense cedar]

yes

[gleaming viper]

ok

[rigid mango]

You ignore CP entirely

Use whenever off cd.

[dense cedar]

could be 5

and u would do it

[rigid mango]

Unless you wont get full 9 sec of it on target

[dense cedar]

toh makes sure u can at least get 2 Envenoms

[gleaming viper]

alright !

[vagrant tapir]

Oris> Fathomstalker Wristwraps right?

See Flawless using puffer

Damn, vansolo still here

lol

[dense cedar]

??

What u mean?

[vagrant tapir]

You've been around since legion

[cobalt pelican]

legion was like last week

[dense cedar]

Legion will be next week too

[vagrant tapir]

Back with mich/gray/rare

[dense cedar]

lmao mich

[dense axle]

I just wanna know when we get Legion timewalking

[vagrant tapir]

still talk to him

[dense cedar]

Next xpac

[vagrant tapir]

on bnet

were you in the madlads dc?

[dense cedar]

wewlads?

[vagrant tapir]

wewlands

ahahaha

yeah wewlads

[dense cedar]

I was

[vagrant tapir]

the original edgy discord

: ^ )

[dense cedar]

Left when I stopped playing wow

is that discord even still around? @vagrant tapir

[vagrant tapir]

Just looked for it

Cant find it

Maybe it was too toxic to remain in existence

[rigid mango]

Straying far from sin lads

[vagrant tapir]

like an unstable isotope

[winter moss]

@severe bough https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ia6nabAFJ8DqRsTuxfvrCD im proud. nothing more to add!

[rigid mango]

only two loyal allies

[ripe shale]

Perfect azerite combo i guess

And a trillion sockets wtf is ur luck

[rigid mango]

wdym his gear isn't even that good

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4NHWQntNWqzCXPvdn2jVja if u have enough loyal

[dense cedar]

most of those sockets are benthic tbf @ripe shale

[rigid mango]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/huCQtR65RzA6rhGqn1mPJE is the best sim I've seen outside of 65 neck

[ripe shale]

I mean. Cloak legs weapon and 2 socketed rings is disgusting

Even without the benthics

[rigid mango]

That's really not that much

[dense cedar]

sockets seem to fall out of everything this patch tbh

[ripe shale]

Why do u have latent arcana as abuff in ur sim @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

It's from font

[cobalt pelican]

alejandro basically has my gear but like just

a tiny bit worse in every slot

maybe i'll get a warlords and goraks next week :')

[rigid mango]

no u wont

[cobalt pelican]

cmon..

[ripe shale]

How long do u channel it normally ?

[rigid mango]

4 seconds

[cobalt pelican]

if i get a piece from mythic i can roll this week actually

[rigid mango]

Always to full

[cobalt pelican]

if i scrap one piece

but AH

[rigid mango]

You wont

[left moth]

How does everyone here have the Gorak Tuls Mantle Shoulder Piece xD Do i just have to get lucky with my Mythic+ Chest to get that?

[vagrant tapir]

lucky bois

I pulled it first week

[rigid mango]

everyone

[vagrant tapir]

^

[cobalt pelican]

i have it

it's just in the vendor

i'm keeping it there so it stays warm for me

:')

[distant lava]

Cause Im good baby, thats why I have it

[dense cedar]

@left moth How much residium do u have?

[left moth]

Only 24k, im pretty new to the game, playing for like 1 Month now 😄

only played FPS games fopr the past 10 years

If i put my SIM up could you guys help me with deciding my gear priorities and what i can change? Would be awesome 😄

[dense cedar]

As long as you're doing M+ u will eventually get it through residium @left moth

[left moth]

@dense cedar Yeah i've been doing +10 and higher for past 2 weeks, before that i didnt have the gear to get int oa group 😄

[severe bough]

@winter moss @rigid mango im back

[rigid mango]

[severe bough]

fuck yeah im gonna reach 44k soon

pog champ

[shy dust]

[rigid mango]

[dense axle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gPrcddRKQV3ogGokvp2Cnu any thoughts from the peanut gallery on how I can push my DPS up a bit? We're progging mythic ashvane

should I upgrade my bracers or my boots? I have 64 pearls right now

and raid is tonight

[near python]

go hc try to snipe font of power, coral, inkpod

[cold spoke]

bracers, effect on boots doesn't increase with ilv

[dense axle]

ooo, ty Hayde

yeah, been trying to snipe a Font or Coral but I have the worse luck for trinkets this season :(

[rigid mango]

@dense axle instead of upgrading, how about getting waist instead

Should be better than 440

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n3qAmDyEUrra4JWzKEYLxS

Yep

[rotund pivot]

does the benthic gear still sim better even out of raid?

[rigid mango]

[sudden ocean]

[rigid mango]

They're effectivly regular items outside of EP/Naz

Like it says on the items

[left moth]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kDos7rtawt6WQ7nMpAQ2Fg Hey Guys, im pretty new to the game (playing for 1 Month), could you guys help me with my Gear priorities, what to get, what to change etc? I would really appreciate it! 😄

[sudden ocean]

Get: Better gear
Change: what sims tell you to

[rotund pivot]

i mean i simmed my benthic 410 with a socket against a 425 with a socket. just sims 500 less

[sudden ocean]

Did you tick the "In nahj" box

gamer?

[rotund pivot]

oh

thx

[rigid mango]

@left moth two things mainly, Undulating tides is huuuge sim bait, it locks you out of the damage part of the trait for 45s if u ever drop sub 50%, which you often do, I'd advise never taking it

[left moth]

ohh

[rigid mango]

Also, you generally only take sub if you're running any SS traits, but you don't

[left moth]

but if i change undulating tides, my only other option is scent of blood, and i thought that one sucked ;D

[dense cedar]

its still better

[rigid mango]

Yeah but you also have behemoth chest

[dense axle]

thanks @rigid mango I've been trying for that freakin belt for a long time

ill get some pearls rollin from my alt and gamble again

[rigid mango]

It's a 50% chance to get it, just need the socket to

easiest piece 😄

[dense axle]

dude, I hear ya. It's been ~40 of them and nothin

[rigid mango]

@left moth your other chest from behemoth, is technically BiS if you have enough people w loyal with you

40

My sweet summer child

[dense axle]

lol]

[rigid mango]

[dense axle]

I have the abberation belt socketed, but no other one

[rigid mango]

Better 50/50 the other one then

I did the same, now I have both waists socketed

[left moth]

@rigid mango but then i lose triple double dose :/

[rigid mango]

Idk why you'd value that so highly

when behemoth chest is equal to cepha, both being BiS

[dense cedar]

Just sim which is better, without considering Tides

[rigid mango]

just that loyal also has a higher cap, since if someone dies the value of the trait significantly increases

[manic quartz]

does inkbod benefit from toxic blade?

[dense cedar]

But no one dies on prog

[rigid mango]

No it doesn't @manic quartz

It's whitelisted 😄

Like vend, like MA

[dense axle]

that would be so sick if it did though

[rigid mango]

Bote crit damage does 👀

[dense axle]

ahctual interaction between talents and trinkets 👀

[rigid mango]

Would mean TB gets nerfed to the ground or inkpod can never be released as a trink tho

[dense axle]

ill brb, gonna take a sad trip over to the Sub channel to see how the remaining 2 guys are doing

[rigid mango]

Fuu and his alt discords talkikng to one another

[severe bough]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wVdJQb3J2rmHtGieY2tYWb

MFW no coral

someone gib

[cobalt pelican]

@rigid mango https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ExpansionOptions

all the expansion options are here

[left moth]

@rigid mango hey T1, so Master Assasin is pretty much always better than Sub?

[cobalt pelican]

so you'd have to use like

[rigid mango]

Fairy don't make me do

dificult shit

[cobalt pelican]

bfa.loyal_to_the_end_ally_death_chance=0.6 in advanced sim

or something

idk if you can set an exact timer on the death

[dense cedar]

ST yes @left moth

[rigid mango]

no fairy, no

I don't do that stuff

[cobalt pelican]

ok

[rigid mango]

[cobalt pelican]

maybe the greenies will do it

for us

god bless them

[rigid mango]

Eleem is working

So no, no one will

[left moth]

@dense cedar okay thanks 😃

[rigid mango]

I would if I understood anything about that shit

But I don't, so I won't

If they send something simple that can be copy pasted into raidbots or someshit, I'm down

[dense axle]

it's literally just Scath and Fuu defending how Sub isn't THAT terrible if you 95+ parse with it

[rigid mango]

[cobalt pelican]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oN4NssjRn3KJgoSnGZ1Aa4

this should like

somewhat work

as a single death in a 5min fight

[rigid mango]

What does that compare to your normal siom?

sim*

[cobalt pelican]

i'm not sure what the best way to sim it is really, like you can set a chance of death and an interval that that chance is run

[rigid mango]

And does it die during any damage window

[vestal wren]

oh, thats nifty

you see azerite now in the report

[cobalt pelican]

this is set to just proc 1x in the fight at like.. 250 seconds?

so it procs like at the tail end of 4min vendetta, i guess?

[rigid mango]

hm

could u make it proc during vend?

@left moth https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dVcCCPeQr7xrPE8o4PATob

Granted that assumes 4 loyal allies at all times

Honestly fairy, this is about pad minmaxing so it's not a big issue

I'm just interested if I can force some idiot to die for me during hc or something

And if it's worth it in the first hand

[left moth]

@rigid mango oh thanks alot, since i only Raid even Heroic with Pugs, do you think Loyal will happen 😄 ?

[rigid mango]

Uhh, you can probs make/find a weakaura that tells you how many people are running it

and or just ask 🤷

It's veryc ommon as it is very good for a lot of peeps

[left moth]

okay sounds good, i will look for a WA then ❤

[dense cedar]

Is it ret paladins with a similar effect to loyal?

[rigid mango]

Used to, don't anymore

[dense cedar]

rip

[cobalt pelican]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r7duRUdSLEzwznEjpyZVBm/simc with no loyal proc
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6KTd12izb5YvDznvBY5Sfk/simc single loyal proc entirely inside 4min vendetta

i can't get profile copies to work

with the expansion lines

it just does it on the entire advanced sim, but i'm probably doing something wrong in that regard

cause idk how to work computer

[rigid mango]

so 500 ish dps gain

According to your sims

[dense axle]

500 extra DPS could get you a #1 parse Zine, esp if you get it to happen for each vendetta :-D

[rigid mango]

That's enough to make me want to suicide some dumbass

[cobalt pelican]

ya something like that

[rigid mango]

Aight

Someone's dying each vend lads

[dense axle]

lol

[rigid mango]

Killing my entire raid for that parse

[dense axle]

wait, does the dead person have to have Loyal?

[rigid mango]

Aye

[dense axle]

orj ust anyone dying

oh, lame

[rigid mango]

So suicide tank on ashvane, for example

[cobalt pelican]

rets still have retribution though

[dense axle]

ooOOOoooo

[cobalt pelican]

we had a ret with like 50% retribution uptime

and like 50% loyal uptime

when we were scuffing sivara

[rigid mango]

hm

loyal is just insane I suppose

[cobalt pelican]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5HincmmPsQrmd9pX33Zckq/simc

[dense axle]

how long does the proc last?

[rigid mango]

20s

[cobalt pelican]

deaths inside both 2min and 4min vendetta

[rigid mango]

iirc

[cobalt pelican]

15 i believe

[rigid mango]

Gimme that 47k

[dense axle]

hehe

[low junco]

dude

[severe bough]

wait what

[low junco]

i always have 2 loyal deaths

cuz tank

[severe bough]

so suicide for fishing pag logs

works?

[low junco]

[severe bough]

[low junco]

ofc

[severe bough]

i know what dad's doing on the weekend

i mean i didnt know the difference was 500 dps just for one death

that's huge

[rigid mango]

I mean it was obv that it'd work

I jut didn't know how huge

[low junco]

imagine if ur entire raid dies

[rigid mango]

I'm gonna fucking

FORCE

[severe bough]

what zine said

[rigid mango]

someone to int

today

[low junco]

and ur the last one with all the loyals

[cobalt pelican]

note that these deaths are like perfectly timed

the value drops quite a bit if they're outside vend

[rigid mango]

WHICH MOFO WANTS TO DIE FOR MY LOGS

[severe bough]

i mean you can make people die

each vend

[cobalt pelican]

i sentence you

to death

[severe bough]

oh fuck im gonna have fun

[left moth]

Oh another Question, i rolled all my Pearls away for the Benthic Wrist with Frost Damage, but i only got the Pufferfish exploding ones with a Socket, is it worzh upgrading them instead?

[rigid mango]

And then I can flex r1 logs