not that huge of a delay imo
#assassination
quartz depot
lime temple
yeah true. ill prob do that in the future. just wish i knew enough about apls to see if its worth holding for a second
idk if an apl would even tell me that tho
quartz depot
i mean
delaying 1tb for a few sec isnt that big of a deal
if you delay each one for a few sec
then it is
lime temple
i feel you. also is fan of knives the play there? or just mutilating and dumping ruptures on adds
quartz depot
i usually fan to get deadly on adds, not sure if worth tho
once most of them have it i just dd
lime temple
On the ashvane fight, i actually dont know what i did wrong . maybe just unlucky crits but on our .08 wipe i would have been rank 1
quartz depot
i mean muti
lime temple
so not sure why i wsa so low on the kill
maybe should have held 3rd vendetta for lust or something
vast forum
@rapid aurora your opener on first boss mythic is a mess
then in 2nd TB you cast rupture twice
rapid aurora
everything is a mess honestly
i lvled this rogue in a week and then gearing up quick and started mythic sdo
faint harness
dont think anything changed in logs
lime temple
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2mNCAxrnDaK3gX8B#fight=29&type=damage-done&source=13 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ta6vKmdpRcyCwhXJ#fight=25&type=damage-done&source=12 so i was doing some research and i noticed we lusted at the same time but he was able to get his 4th vendetta in the lust window. Usually i hold my vendettas till toxic blade is back up. but for this specific case should i hold tb's for when my next vendetta is going to be up so i can line up vedetta w lust? Might lose out on like 1-2 tb's overall but might be worth. any opinions?
cause it would line up CLF w 4th vendetta as well from what i cant tell
quartz depot
you can vendetta when tb has like 10s left on cd
nimble tartan
what nightr
quartz depot
and just delay vanish for tb
lime temple
hmm yeah that could be the play actually. i like it
hoary crown
When having TB coming off cooldown and like 7-8 seconds on dots, should u just refresh dots and go for TB after ?
rigid mango
There's no gain from wasting pandemic window
hoary crown
Ok so thats a yes then ? ^^
woven summit
Hey guys, so when do we exactly use life-force? 1 sec pre pull?
and then just on CD?
rigid mango
in pins
empty badge
You dont have to TB for vanish, envenom is also good
empty badge
you should never delay vendetta for TB if you are able to fit a third ven into fight
rigid mango
Very rare case that you'd lose a vendetta thanks to saving it for tb though
hoary crown
What do you mean? @empty badge
empty badge
yes but if you can fit an extra vend
you shouldnt be holding it for tb
which is what he said he did was missed a vend because he held
hoary crown
So if vend is coming off cd and TB is like 10 sec away do you use ur tb before vendetta then ?
lime temple
i didnt miss a vendetta. just didnt get it lined up w lust
if thats what you guys are talking about
short token
So for bote we open normally, vendetta - tb - bote - vanish - envenom?
The wording is throwing me off
robust zephyr
Does the energy gain from Nothing Personal stack?
shy axle
woven summit
only the nature damage yeah
white basalt
So if we use font as late as possible pre pull, we just hit coral asap and the just use all the crit for 2nd vendetta? And then press it again after vendetta for start building stacks? So we dont really benefit from the crit till 2nd vendetta?
robust zephyr
On that same note, on a fight < 6 min, is it better to save all coral stacks until 3rd Vendetta+2nd CLF combo?
magic silo
maybe it'd be a simpler question - what's better between bentic WITH a socket but not crit/haste or bentic with crit/haste but WITHOUT one
robust zephyr
For benthic, the secondary stats are irrelevant. You want the best effects and sockets.
magic silo
ok, for instance - now I've got arms crit/haste 415 ilvl with the effect which restore health on crits
and I'm thinking of whether I should spend pearls (now ~120)
to up them
ok I see
robust zephyr
You only want to upgrade the ones with the best dps effects. Each is worth roughly 500 dps in raid.
drifting rain
Hi, quick question. I've seen some rogues do insane amounts of damage with double dose. They have 2x double dose and a rogue in my group also has 2x and his double dose is ALWAYS under his multilate while he even has more multilate casts than the other rogue. Is there anything he can do to do more damage? or is it really just rng.
marble elm
mutilate during envenom buff
split sluice
Is there a place to learn where to min/max or what phases to max your damage.
Like in order to max your uptime on radiance or what talents make the biggest impact with a boss with adds like zaqul etc
white basalt
Yes
white basalt
Just pool before TB comes off CD. You dont want to delay really cause you want to use it as many times as possible
And keep an eye out for bleeds so you don't need to replace during the window
hoary crown
So during no tb buff you dont pool to use the envenom buff ?
rigid mango
You want to get as many mutis inside of envenom, and envenoms inside EP
hoary crown
So pooling is a thing, always ?
split sluice
Do you refresh bleeds to then pool before TB window
rigid mango
PLay around that fact.
split sluice
Not capping
empty tide
Poll 100 energy and you’re safe
tropic ocean
its getting better
empty tide
You can get 2 envenom, 3 with crits
woven summit
So I got the wrist benthic gear that gives frost damage with socket, upgraded it to 425. What's the next benthic item I should pursue with socket? Belt or feet?
tropic ocean
feet
rotund mural
Question since dungenslice sim is weird ppl say.... what do i want for m+ trinkets
1 - cyclotronic blast 415 / harlan 445 ?
2 - dead-eye spyglass 425 / harlan 445?
3 - cyclotronic blast 415 / dead-eye spyglass 425?
tropic ocean
feet > all
empty tide
Feet
woven summit
I see, the crit ones, thanks
white basalt
What omr
rigid mango
You can litearlly pool as much as humanly possible @split sluice aslong as you're not capping and losing energy
You're not losing damage aslong as you're not overcapping
weary marten
hey guys i'm looking for a freehold route for this week 😃
empty tide
Feet 
rigid mango
This isn't the place @weary marten , #wow-general
weary marten
oh sorry
rotund mural
can anyone answer my question plz? xD
white basalt
How important is it to use font 20 sec before 2nd vendetta with coral?
scarlet sequoia
10 seconds before
split sluice
@rigid mango - so if garrote has 4 seconds, rupture 5, tb 7 refresh those bleeds ASAP, pool then max the tb window?
empty tide
@rotund mural cyclo is good on tyranical or to destroy the void beguilings, but i would go dice and spyglass for more sustained dmg
rotund mural
@empty tide Ty so much !
magic silo
is there actually a list of the most valuable effects on the bentic items?
empty badge
@tropic ocean i fixed it https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nTaEkGPreSq56DuCBPB6J3
tropic ocean
@empty badge nice man thats some decent dps
severe sedge
is it azerite that is holding me back?
empty tide
Frost bracers frost gloves physical and aberration belt and crit boots
severe sedge
essence is wrong i knowe
empty tide
These are the best
robust zephyr
@magic silo You can use the Droptimizer on raidbots and select the Benthic Armor option to find out all of the best pieces.
rigid mango
@split sluice the rule of thumb is you don't want to reapply bleeds during tb, but you lose more for dropping rupture than not getting another env in tb window
magic silo
thank you all
@robust zephyr actually never knew how to use this thing properly lmao
would try
rigid mango
@split sluice just try to preplan your TB windows and play around getting as clean windows with as many envenoms as possible
rigid mango
glgl
tame basin
Hey guys. Can some1 help m,e with proper usage of Ashvane trinket during opener? So far I was going: Garrote > Multi > Rupture > Vendetta > Multi > Vanish > TB > Envenom ... and had Plum trinket macroed with Vendetta. Should I use Ashvane just after 1st garrote and keep stacks for second V?
robust zephyr
@magic silo I used it for the first time yesterday and it is amazing. Be sure to select 425 for the ilvl and do the option for socket.
empty tide
@severe sedge need more double doses, NP ttks, and better essences
severe sedge
NP ttks?
plain wraith
quick question, how do you use Coral?
empty tide
Nothing personal twist the knife
plain wraith
How should you use it at least
empty tide
Sorry
severe sedge
chest and shoulders best upgrade then?
outlaw main
but want to get some assa going
magic silo
@robust zephyr I guess the 50 crit would be optimal for assa
empty tide
You should be aiming for 3xDD, 1-2xTTK, 1-2xNP , Loyal is good too if you raid
tame basin
@empty tide for ST?
robust zephyr
@magic silo You will have to check your weights. I value crit above all since my weights are so close and I run triple EB for M+. Crit is far ahead of everything for AoE, so I don't mind taking a very small single target loss for that.
empty tide
@tame basin yep
plain wraith
How do you use Coral effectively?
fading ocean
undulating tides is a sim padder
robust zephyr
You have to realize in those sims that only the first NP is getting more value than DD. UT is a sim trap.
tropic ocean
undulating tides is bad
empty tide
Unduling tides is pretty good BUT , if it procs it’s 45s second with no traits
Useless on prog
rare garden
Did you guys see the Font nerf? I already hated it
fading ocean
that’s with 0% uptime on the debuff, in reality you’ll have like 40% uptime on it meaning its only workinf 60% of the time
empty tide
Font nerf is just a hotfix
empty tide
Was bugged if you talented sub, not taking you outta stealth
tame basin
I'll repeat my question:
Can some1 help me with proper usage of Ashvane trinket during opener? So far I was going: Garrote > Multi > Rupture > Vendetta > Multi > Vanish > TB > Envenom ... and had Plum trinket macroed with Vendetta. Should I use Ashvane just after 1st garrote and keep stacks for second V?
Pin is not saying anything about opener
pulsar ledge
Ashvane should be macroed with Vendetta
tropic ocean
Font & Coral Useage
- Use font 5s precombat (to allow preppy time) and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown.
legit in the pins
tame basin
did you read it before pasting?
tame basin
Ashvane
tropic ocean
oh
tame basin
not Azshara
strange python
is it worth replacing the benthic gear with the 440 crafted gear?
tame basin
not as a opener
tropic ocean
and use crit conversion with vendetta
dull inlet
I run SSx3, NPx3, with subterfuge, should I wait to vanish until pandemic can extend the original stealthed garrote?
tame basin
should I wait 20s with vendetta then?
tame basin
or skip it on pull and use it with second v
dull inlet
actually, my question is dumb, lol
true nexus
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
kind steppe
Why my condensed life force sim 300dps below lucid dream ? I thought about haste but actually haste is my less needed stat after agility
uneven topaz
300 dps doesn't matter
drifting cloud
did you check stat weights with clf
civic palm
That's nice. How much haste do you have?
drifting cloud
because lucid major pushes haste really down
civic palm
yay discord didn't eat my MESSAGE 
devout gazelle
guys i think my sim is a bit low for my current gear any suggestions would be nice 😃 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gT7qTgFgBfbkcLUzXWgTXJ
civic palm
wtf are you on about?
storm nymph
civic palm
Hi hello I have great Benthic, a 450 Coral and 430 weapons.
What is my SIM doing wroooooooooooooong.
devout gazelle
the chest is not bis but nvm 😛 and thats why i am asking cause i think i have pretty good gear and i sim hardly at 45k
rare garden
in what world is np dd not bis
civic palm
The world where the chest piece doesn't have Overwhelming Power.
quartz depot
also need mystical daggers
drifting cloud
chest is like 3rd bis overall
devout gazelle
and missing ttk
rigid mango
ttk isn't BiS on the basis of the strenght of the trait itself
it's the pieces that have it.
quartz depot
yup
devout gazelle
and yea sure i need weaps ofc
but just asking cause i see some people sims 46+ without even have bis azerites or something 😄
civic palm
Well then look at their shit and see what's different...
rigid mango
You also have phial
quartz depot
it's mostly your trinket and daggers tbh
hollow stone
Didnt op get nerfed?
hollow stone
Hearsay but, i heard they changed the decay rate from 3 to 1
Havent tested, havent looked
hollow stone
If that is the case, its possible that cepha is not bis
civic palm
IIRC Spymasters sims as well as Ceph for some people.
civic palm
YOUR RINGS ARE SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
cobalt pelican
i saw a bunch of spell updates get pushed to sim but like
devout gazelle
yeah i know got the socket one today from chest but the stats are really bad ^^
rigid mango
If op gets nerfed
rigid mango
BiS is gonna be dd/loyal/op - dd bbi op - dd np whirl probs
devout gazelle
45.4k is with benthic gloves? @civic palm
rigid mango
That sorta area ish
devout gazelle
already spend around 300 pearls for these fucking hands and still no drop
scenic saffron
What is the best azerite combination at the end of the content ? Zaqul head + goraktul shoulder + behemoth chest ? Or is there a better one ?
rigid mango
Current bis is that, ye
rigid mango
Blackwater and cepha are p much same
But blackwater has added value if someone dies
So it has higher potential
scenic saffron
How about orgozoa shoulder instead of goraktul ?
quasi pewter
pretty far behind
rigid mango
Not good enough
rigid mango
I don't think it's thaaat far ahead of tent laced?
Depending on NP amounts and such ofc
glad horizon
i have an issue where toxic blade doesnt hit sometimes?? like i get no cp or buff is this common
quasi pewter
i have np on chest so its very far for me
tribal marlin
@glad horizon this is called Parry
And you have around 5% chance of getting parry, 0% chance if you hit the boss from behind
novel cargo
anyone know how to track the empowered garotte with sub talented in WA. uses the same spell code as far as i can see
faint sand
From dungeons which trinkets are the best for assa? (Single target)
civic palm
@novel cargo Yeah but it requires custom scripting.
novel cargo
thanks, outta my league there then
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
Should be listed as Garrote Empowerment something or another.
novel cargo
yea that worked thanks again 😃
civic palm
👍
valid kayak
Can someone take a look at my radiance log and give some advice to improve? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tpKbQRMAh2Gf9zj3/#fight=13&type=summary&source=10
quiet forge
How much better is Life-Force + Lucid dreams than Lucid + Iris?
royal lantern
favors haste, the guardian does good dmg
quiet forge
I was running Lucid + iris with master / crit build and just got guardian to r3 and after simming im kinda disappointed 😦
guardian + lucid and haste gems, enchants in only +210 dps
thought it would be bigger
vast monolith
How should i use Aszhara Trinket?
dense axle
thats what she said @quiet forge
quiet forge
:^)
earnest forge
hello. For assa spec. how much haste I need before switching to crit?
dense axle
8,000,000
but the real answer is there's really no cap. Sim individual gear to find out if it's better/worse
you want it like Thanos - Balanced as all things should be
dense axle
MA is really good
white basalt
ive been using subt cause im used to it and it simmed to closely or even ahead, but now it looks like ill be obligated to change i guess
dense axle
yeah, I have to take a Filthy Transfusion trait because the alternative is SS
white basalt
"new way" of MA pull on ravenholdt guide still good? Mut>Rup>Mut>Garrote>Vend>TB>Vanish>
faint sand
Whas is TB lol?
faint sand
What does TB means?
dense axle
Toxic Blade
calm wedge
i think it is
dense axle
after vanish, you Env, Mut, Env
calm wedge
yep
quiet forge
agility pot or fury one?
faint sand
You wil be at 4-5 CP right?
quiet forge
and the dps diff if anyone knows please
dense axle
with CLF you go Mut Rup Mut Garr CLF Vend TB Vanish
white basalt
so CLF after first garrote
dense axle
@quiet forge Unbridled Fury is best
quiet forge
Do you happen to know the difference in dps?
faint sand
CLF? Srry but im bas with acronyms
dense axle
yeah, basically think of it as "start the MA window with CLF"
faint sand
Bad*
dense axle
youll get em, just takes immersion
quiet forge
@dense axle Do you maybe happen to know the difference in dps between both pots?
dense axle
I'm a reformed Sub rogue :P
@quiet forge thats a thing you can Sim, dont know off hand
quiet forge
Ok thank you
faint sand
So env mut env its good even when you do it with 2 CP? After the vanish @dense axle
dense axle
at least youll have 3
when I end up with that, I tend to Mut just prior to my TB + Vanish
faint sand
Ill have 4 for the first env after vanish but for the second
dense axle
wait
faint sand
I will have 2 or 4 right?
dense axle
youll have Mut + Gar + TB
youll at min have 4
2 from Mut, 1 from Gar, min 1 from TB
the second Env might be bad if you get really unlucky with the Mut during the MA window and both dont crit
if that happens, I just toss a second Mut and say RIP to my parse
faint sand
with CLF you go Mut Rup Mut Garr CLF Vend TB Vanish Env Mut Env (in this last env you could get 2-4 CP) or am i wrong?
Oh yeah i see now
Most cases you will get 4
I get it ty!
dark crag
You mut to 4+ never finish with less cp
dense axle
oh, is that the APL? Im just going off my sample log
white basalt
and for the next vanish, TB right before again?
dense axle
yes
median sand
Has anyone put in big brain work comparing trinkets in m+?
faint sand
Or i have to use it like when i have my vendetta window?
white basalt
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q9Y17aKayLVoPsNVnTyjNM my setup for ashvane prog for now ig
faint sand
@dense axle ?
faint sand
Yeah
dense axle
so just macro that shit to Vendetta
faint sand
Ok
dense axle
or, if it's not 2 min CD, macro to TB
faint sand
Its a min cd
dense axle
I have a WQ haste trinket that is 1 min CD. I just macro to TB
faint sand
Ohh ok
dense axle
it TF'd like 7 times to 435 with a socket :P
faint sand
Hate i need to get benthic to get better dmg in raiding hahaha
quiet forge
Which benthic pieces are most important? Tring to decide which ones to replace sooner than later
gentle jewel
Hi yall, new here. wanted to come for advice so can one day be worth a damn.
dense axle
faint sand
That is in the notes
quiet forge
Didnt know pins say from best to worst sorry
gentle jewel
is pooling energy worth it at all?
faint sand
They say what do yo need to get
quiet forge
But which ones matter more than others?
dense axle
@gentle jewel switch out the SS trait for the other one, and go MA talent
white basalt
why tf does my sim say I am 428 ilvl? Im 425
faint sand
In the notes are the bis dor each one
gentle jewel
Master Assassin or Subterfuge? what would do better in Palace?
faint sand
For*
dull inlet
sim yo self?
meager nebula
wrists/boots are good to start with @quiet forge
quiet forge
thank you
severe sedge
any tips on what to improve next?
dense axle
essences
get rank 3 CLF and rank 3 Lucid
switch to MA and get rid of SS trait
should put you up a couple thousand DPS
severe sedge
what should i swap SS to?
white basalt
DD NP Undulating Tides
quiet forge
@severe sedge get benthic with sockets
heavy trail
So the benthic with undulating tides is good ?
dense axle
yeah, benthicc with sockets is BIS for at least boots/bracers
tides is a trait that sims really well, but doesnt perform that great
but anything is better than SS
heavy trail
yeah that's what I thought... good point
dense axle
unless you can stack like 3 SS
next reef
my current build has 3 DD and 2 SS I have no NP available on my gear should I ditch the 2 SS and just get others or is it worth have the 2 SS?
dark crag
Bracers are hard to get
quiet forge
Do you think 425 hands without socket is worth replacing with Benthic more than 430 boots with socket? Im asking because benthic boots are BiS and hands are not but dont have hands with socket yet. Would be a great waste of mana if I drop any +435 with socket hands.
dark crag
What?
tropic ocean
wide phoenix
the equip effect on the boots is why you want em
quiet forge
ok gonna sim xD
gentle jewel
i don't know why, but i sim 1k lower with MA. what on earth am i doing wrong?
robust zephyr
Do you have SS trait?
gentle jewel
i removed it.
sturdy python
No way to tell unless you link sim
gentle jewel
sec....
dark crag
All benthic 425 socket, mechagon rings with socket, bis azerite 445, raid trinkets, should be easy 48k
subtle tundra
fuck benthic
dark crag
434 under 40k yikes
subtle tundra
mitsrugi you need benthic gear
crystal vault
finally killed ashvane 
with 2 phase tactic
dapper plover
nice dude
gentle jewel
Hmm......what benthic pieces should i go after first? 😦
dark crag
Boots
subtle tundra
yea boots
gentle jewel
just that? what about the rest? any better stats to shoot for? i could go crit haste....
subtle tundra
stats dont matter
the effect is what makes the benthic good
boots with crit damage with socket
if they dont have socket keep rolling
autumn sail
anyone else simming higher with lucid dreams 3 than CLF 3 ?
short jacinth
pufferfish bracers good enough to keep or keep rolling for ori's?
candid kiln
hey i got a question is [Gloves of Incomparable Beauty] 430 with a socket better then [Poen's Deepsea Grips] 420 with a socket for raiding ?
summer onyx
Anyone know if rupturing on an almost dead target to trigger venomous wounds to regen energy quick for next TB window is worth it?
gentle jewel
is it worth it to pool energy? and keep the envenom buff up ?
summer onyx
You want to have about 80% minimum of your energy pool going into toxic blade
Because you want to use TB on cooldown
gentle jewel
Thanks. going to make some adjustments. if my crap is simming lower with MA. i'll just use SS for now.
near python
@icy ember happens when you are blessed enough to raid with Mike Preach Gaming
gentle jewel
I'll play the Benthic lottery for now till i get the right pieces
lone mirage
so the aim is to buy benthic boots ? till we get the socket ones?
dark crag
Yes
dark crag
Boots have a good chance
desert vault
I think my waist and bracers are going to sim higher than benthic sadly 440 waist with socket and 450 bracers with good stats
I keep getting such weird look. 455 haste verse hands. 440 socket boots with crit version or something
Making it hard to use benthic in some spots
drifting cloud
or just run the sim to check
because bracers are definetly worse
and belt probably aswell, but closer than bracers atleast
desert vault
Yeah benthic bracers weren't close. Waist was a toss up I think benthic boots still beat my 440 socket boots
prisma cypress
no doubt
desert vault
My ilvl parses are going to suck for sure
prisma cypress
you'd need like 450-455 socketed boots to match benthic, i think
desert vault
I was thinking wrists and waist are about around 445ish assuming socket is 15 ilvl so maybe benthic trait on this pieces about 10 ilvl?
Then boots around 20 ilvl?
warm ibex
you’re never replacing benthic boots this patch
so long as they have a socket, they’ll beat a 455 socket piece, same with wrists
frail swan
Yo. Kinda new to rogue and an old returning player so im outta the loop quite a bit. When would be the most optimal time to use toxic blade in the rotation?
PvE wise.
Single target
stable isle
on cooldown
low junco
on cd, preferably when u have energy so u can use as much envenoms as possible @frail swan
red plaza
if anybody was curious, difference between pufferfish bracers and frost damage ones, and how a 455 w/socket does worse XD https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8GeFtCgKCbbWubFAZgcMfz
tiny mauve
Could I get some assistance with a log?
sour wasp
sure
tiny mauve
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8RLrAgDBTwJdtQY3#fight=29&type=damage-done&source=6 <- our last pull of the night. More specifically Nikisndrs
*Lots of other things wrong with the fight/pull, just trying to boost overall throughput of everyone involved. I don't main assassination but would like to offer some advice/assistance
woeful minnow
don't actually use wowanalyzer
low junco
i think wow analyzer is perfect
tiny mauve
^ Been hesitant to do so
low junco
for a st fight like sivara
lusty narwhal
My guild is 3 weeks deep and we've had 3 corals drop 
cobalt pelican
seems like just discomfort with the fight in general more than anything
the first three tbs in the fight
the boss isn't even being hit
peak tb window
in general boss uptime is really low, like every 20 seconds there's a 5-6 second break
where nothing is happening
sour wasp
that, also your gear isn't optimized, which wouldn't be the main issue here
but it can help
cobalt pelican
using vanish offset from vendetta with shrouded is a no go
tiny mauve
Stack more haste I assume?
cobalt pelican
use them together
like what is this
are you trying to soak every pool in the ranged camp
cause that's what it looks like
sour wasp
i suppose those are dodging shrds windows?
cobalt pelican
you should lose very little uptime
like maybe a couple seconds as you step out and find a hole to move back into
tiny mauve
No clue, <-- not Nikisndrs. Just a dude trying to improve a raiders performance 😄
woeful minnow
comparing downtime with damage taken timeline it's actually just overflow
sour wasp
ahah i see
tiny mauve
I main disc. and never mained a rogue so I'm sadly not as much help as I'd like
sour wasp
well your friend should be here if he really wants to get better
tiny mauve
Most likely will be directed for sure
cobalt pelican
basic stuff is just use vanish with vendetta with the gear he's playing (which likely isn't his best gear but eh)
focus on actually
hitting the boss
tiny mauve
I try to get a little start to help direct then leave them in your hands lol
cobalt pelican
if you think of this spec as mostly revolving around peaks and troughs of damage
he has the troughs
then like
stops hitting the boss for the peaks
tiny mauve
Alrighty!
cobalt pelican
and yeah, bleed uptime is really low
60% garrote uptime is like actually impressively low
sour wasp
so work on uptime, lining vanish with vendetta, getting better gear overall (use the stuff on raidbots, its magic really)
cobalt pelican
how much of that is like because he's just straight not hitting the boss idk but even still
tiny mauve
sour wasp
stat weights, benthic blah blah
cobalt pelican
if you're going to africa to do some shitty inefficient mechanic stuff
like at least put your bleeds up before you leave
sour wasp
like an alchemy trinket, really?
cobalt pelican
garrote and rupture on this fight should be like 98% uptime
the only time you ever have to move you get a decent warning
you'd probably be best referring them to the ravenholdt/wowhead guides as a baseline to learn pandemic timers and how to use the basic cds, seems like they learned the opener but then kinda stopped there
sour wasp
damn, fairy tearing into ppl today
tiny mauve
Well, seems far more obvious when you guys talk about it. but thank you lol
cobalt pelican
:' (
tiny mauve
f
sour wasp
its okay, i got a 440 no socket cloak too
robust ivy
Would anyone mind looking over my logs real quick, for M ashvane. I have been trying to figure out why my dps feels so low , and wowanlayzer etc. plus me looking over them have been no help. (These are all wipes, just trying to optimize) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hb7LgzYjHGrTkdxy/#fight=33
cobalt pelican
not an upgrade cause no holes
but ya if you look at the link there's like
actually a whole minute where garrote isn't up
and he's not dead
so idk what happened
subtle tundra
~40k dps on m ashvane is ok, right?
sometimes lower sometimes higher depends on rng
vast forum
depends on gear 
if you sim 50k, 40k is low, if you sim 40k, 40k is great
subtle tundra
well should be a lot higher on sunday raid since i got azshara trinket and 445 gorak
cobalt pelican
a few basic things from a glance rhyane on the pull you linked like
idk if you fatfingered your coral ors omething
you're using your cds just like very weirdly in general
guardian 1minute offset from vendetta, coral with guardian but not with vendetta
robust ivy
guardian 1 min offset was raid leaders call, and though adding coral to that might help some more
cobalt pelican
if your raidleader actually wants you to offset cds you'd be better off just holding everything probably
subtle tundra
i mean with MA
cobalt pelican
low junco
i play with MA
cobalt pelican
you have quite a lot of windows like this
low junco
opal scroll
can anyone help me? want to improve my logs and performance. Only raiding hc for now but want to go mythic
that was a raid today, we did normal for alts and hc for reclear
cobalt pelican
like, if you hit 4/5cp and you're not far from tb there's no reason to just be pumping out envenoms randomly
opal scroll
7/8 atm
cobalt pelican
your bleed uptime is good but comes at the cost of like, casting half of them during tb due to button mashing
subtle tundra
@cobalt pelican you seem like you know a lot about assa and i've wondered for a long time: is it worth it to tb with 5cp?
cobalt pelican
yes
subtle tundra
thanks
low junco
wow you actually know a lot
cobalt pelican
no i just talk here most days
sour wasp
not to bring fairy down but that should be common knowledge
low junco
subtle tundra
eh i think im a pretty good assa player
low junco
you think yeah
cobalt pelican
rogue is in the great position of like
subtle tundra
i dont think too much, i play assa
cobalt pelican
if you look at the apl, and understand it, you can safely assume that someone big brained has done the math and checked alternatives
and you don't have to know the whys or hows
tropic ocean
- open on boss
subtle tundra
on behemoth i just open on add use rupture and leave with full cp
low junco
thats actual min maxing @tropic ocean
sour wasp
just bribe your priest with like 5k beforehand
cobalt pelican
kinda wish warlocks would actually use their gates to help people
sour wasp
to reserve grip fro you
broken crypt
use font when i can if there are no good times or ignore font and keep dpsing?
sour wasp
yeah, priests are useless anyways
broken crypt
after 2 mins*
tropic ocean
use font
tropic ocean
To fit 20s into vendetta
white basalt
got the lock to do it
low junco
they are not @shy dust
broken crypt
gotcha
cobalt pelican
they might have to be closer to the floor or something idk
i've never had an issue
white basalt
what if i just channel font during kill fish phase and sit on it
then step to boss
wait nvm
stealth wont work
narrow orchid
Are combo points wasted by seal of fate something you can fix?
cuz to me it sounds like bad rng
cobalt pelican
you're never going to play a fight with 0 wasted but it can certainly be lowered
shy dust
i usually channel during the fish
cobalt pelican
primarily through not using all of your energy and efficiently using garrote to fill out cps
narrow orchid
like using mutilate at 3 cp and critting with MH and OH so generating 4 so you overcap 2
icy ember
i usually just channel pre pull, im guessing the differences are minimal
narrow orchid
any idea if thats smth u can fix?
inner tundra
im sure this has been answered before, but I didn't see it in pins. When do I coral for my opener?
how important is it to get off right away?
inner tundra
gotcha
reef axle
Is there some sort of gap between having 0% vers compared to like 1%?
sour wasp
@narrow orchid if you aint overcapping cp's as assa, you're making mistakes
it's part of the spec
and it's gonna happen
subtle tundra
If i have 10-15 secs on vendetta with TB up do i TB?
sour wasp
tb on cd
pale prism
How is everyone using Azshara's Font of Power for openers?
cobalt pelican
if you're confident in fight length you can delay vendetta for tb
never delay tb for anything
sour wasp
confident as in, being sure that you're not gonna lose another vendetta cast over it
i'm fairy's assistant today
sour wasp
thanks master 😃
shy dust
is it worth it rupturing bubbles on ashvane for the energy refund?
sour wasp
you can do a small one yeah
rotund grotto
@stable plinth ?
stable plinth
wrong night
rotund grotto
you must be looking for Nightr 🙂
marble elm
we have had this problem before
rotund grotto
proud prawn
Are you guys lining up coral with Vend regardless of the stacks or only when it’s over a certain amount of stacks? I saw someone on stream say something about only using it with 26+ stacks so essentially it would be every other Vend
He is 6/8M so his words had some weight. Curious what others are doing though.
proud prawn
This is the Sin channel. That post is for outlaw and sub?
Or am I missing it somewhere
proud prawn
Noice
low junco
@quasi pewter welcome to the club
quasi pewter
guess i can roll for m+ pieces now
low junco
what are your other pieces
low junco
hmmm
quasi pewter
but id rather have something for outlaw
low junco
actually big pumper
arctic walrus
"Updated SimC usage of Font+Coral for Assa"
arctic walrus
How is that outlaw/sub @proud prawn
quasi pewter
B I G
proud prawn
Hmm it scrolled me to a different message. Weird
low junco
ur an actual pumper @quasi pewter
quasi pewter
last patch i rolled for like 3 months
low junco
you have my respect
low junco
same
quasi pewter
feels good
opal meadow
how are you at 49k
quasi pewter
im skilled at looting
low junco
i dont have engineering but
i am currently trying to change between azerites to check out on stuff
quasi pewter
engi helm is like almost as good as zaqul helm for me so i dont even need that
low junco
if there was a dd/loyal chest i would've gone with my current azerites
opal meadow
gloves and bracers seem pretty huge..
low junco
but since there arent really i will probably go for the loyal helm and get a chest later on
opal meadow
what the fuck is that inkpod @low junco
low junco
got it today
opal meadow
i hate this game's loot system i really do
quasi pewter
also hc 445 coral
low junco
it was traded to me
on first week mythic we went for quick hc
for upgrades
and our ret had a 450 button
so he had to trade the coral
arctic walrus
If you had zaqul helm blackwater with 4 loyal should sim more
quasi pewter
u mean zaqul with np?
marble elm
zaqul with loyal / gorak tul with np / ceph is like 100 dps higher than blackwater for me
low junco
cuz i am definitely not a top prio for zaquls helm
marble elm
i have ceph but cant use it yet
low junco
i heard its boomies bis
low junco
actually kinda interested, i saw that u've killed queens court
how many wipes did uhad @quasi pewter
quasi pewter
62 for first kill according to ert
quasi pewter
having gorak tul is such a huge relief though, its so big compared to everything else
arctic walrus
any combo of 1 loyal/1 np is the go to
if you have zaq blackwater and gorak bbi will probably work out then
opal meadow
I'm saving 200k for tul's
low junco
true
quasi pewter
i still dont have blackwater kill
arctic walrus
You close on azshara?
quasi pewter
nah lol
low junco
prolly because ur guild wants to get more weapons/trinkets for ur raiders?
quasi pewter
we have 2 adds down only
quasi pewter
yea i always sit because i dont rly need anything from that boss
opal meadow
445 is only 500 more dps for me vs 430
low junco
yeah
quasi pewter
how far are you vel?
iron vigil
Are the benthic treads a lot better then the 440LW boots?
low junco
yes
opal meadow
yes
low junco
benthic with socket
iron vigil
yea with socket of course
low junco
i have 440lw boots aswell
quasi pewter
ye its like 500 dps or something when i simmed it
desert vault
are benthic gloves worth chasing?
low junco
yes
iron vigil
Thanks I haven't been lucky with the boots, so I couldnt sim it
desert vault
I've got boots, puffer bracers, nothing really for waist, just the aberration belt which is meh
desert vault
yeah, I have 455 gloves already, but then again i've got a 440+socket belt as well 😐
desert vault
I guess I need to start farming weapons, TD here I come ...
normal shale
I'm struggling to find when to use Cyclotronic blast. I know the pin in general says to use it outside cooldowns below 80 energy, but after my opener, I feel like I'm just sitting on an unused cooldown forever, makes me feel dirty.
arctic walrus
We've gotten a few phase 4s, mostly working on getting a clean 3rd add
inner leaf
opal meadow
@normal shale i use it on vendetta usually after toxic blade is on CD and i have my bleeds refreshed
desert vault
what's the name of the good benthic waist?
aka, not Fathomstalker the one I of course have
iron vigil
Vim's?
vapid scarab
there's 2 belts, both are good
vim's is better for anything not orgozoa or zaquul and fathomstalker is better for those 2
desert vault
I thought the aberration damage only worked on a few bosses? Like 2?
ok, yeah
max ilvl on benthic is 420 or 425?
summer marten
desert vault
oh didn't know that about azerite, huh so might be semi-worth it on a few azerite for m+ at least
chest with eb/ttk isn't too bad
dang 440+socket crit/haste belt only loses to Vim's at 425 and it gets beat by 34 dps at that point
yeah that sounds pretty awful, prolly have a full set of 435 by now if I could have gotten lucky on boots rather than waiting a month on them it felt like
so Ceph is better than Spymasters because of Overwhelming pretty much?
robust ivy
is it worth it to delay tb in order to get in an extra envenom during the window?
dark crag
No
red plaza
Ideally you should be pooling before TB comes off CD
dry zodiac
Hey. Can any1 tell me how to get an essence into raidbots i dont have yet?
lean coral
All Essence IDs
4 Worldvein
5 Focusing Iris
6 Purification Protocol
12 Crucible of Flames (Concentrated Flames)
14 Condensed Life-Force / Guardian of Azeroth
15 Ripple in Space
22 Vision of Perfection
23 Blood of the Enemy
27 Lucid Dreams
28 Unbound Force
32 Conflict and Strife
The 3 in every "4:3" is the rank so change it to "4:2 " for rank 2
azerite_essences_available=4:3/5:3/6:3/12:3/14:3/15:3/22:3/23:3/27:3/28:3/32:3
Copy the string into TopGear here:
https://i.imgur.com/Vf3GsQ5.png
dry zodiac
thx!!!
quasi pewter
Maybe that only works if you have rank 1 of the essence and not if you dont have it at all idk
quasi pewter
Ah well then
arctic walrus
5-6s
fallow otter
yes
channel before vend
head over the #tc-updates for a blurb on how to use with coral
main blaze
"Hey we just realized that font didnt break stealth for subterfuge. We fixed that for you. YW":
strange python
does anyone know if kui has a function to change npc colors like plater does
i prefer kui but not being able to change color makes m+ so much more aids
fallow otter
i used to use kui but moved over the plater permanently now, if i were you i would look at getting plater to look like kui
rather then trying to get kui to do things that plater can do
arctic walrus
@marble elm Good luck on azshara we aint raiding until sunday
fallow otter
i think thats an easier process and solves the problem for any future features you want
strange python
yeah, maybe
but if there's an addon for it to change color then that's super easy too
nimble tartan
Wtf i needed that 2 months ago
main blaze
Like friendly NPCs?
willow wasp
is phial decent for keys?
granite rampart
its okay, about 2% of your overall damage.
willow wasp
430 dice or 430 phial for keys?
fallow otter
i'd use dice
fathom echo
anyone know if i run 3 x DD is there any point FoK during some add phases on raid bosses
fallow otter
no
fathom echo
do i just rupture 3 targets and switch to prio targ?
fathom echo
yeah azhara, ashvane
fallow otter
azshara i ignore the adds, let those with cleave look after them
ashvane i pump one of the bubbles
sometimes both
fathom echo
im guessing MA + DD and NP its not fighting adds?
fallow otter
ST beast yup
empty badge
how good is azsharas font foor m+?
I have coral, font, and tiny electro all 440 to choose fromo
rigid mango
Reaaally good
But it takes practice to get down
Also with the hotfix that it takes you out of stealth even with sub, it's a small nerf to risky usage but I don't see that much being lost
arctic walrus
Wait so now font takes you out of stealth regardless of talent?
rigid mango
It was really quite handy for m+, but F now I suppose
fathom echo
i have 15% haste and for patchwerk stat weights mastery versa and crit is way ahead of haste is that right?
rigid mango
Not right nor incorrect
There's too many things that affect your setup to actually value them one way and always
lean coral
loyal to the end makes mastery worth less
my stat weights atm are Vers>Crit>Haste>Mastery
near coyote
do you guys do any diff talents for zaqul?
fathom echo
yeah its super weird since i have 37% mastery
rigid mango
Not talents but essence, but that only really matters for mythic
lean coral
oh if you're talking stat weights for dungeons i dont have mine for sin
i play outlul in dungeons
since i have a 455 behemoth weap
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fallow otter
@fathom echo essences change the stat weights ALOT
fathom echo
ahhh thats probably why since im running lucid and focusing
fallow otter
ye, when i was running that combo my stat weights were virtually equal
switch to clf/lucid and its haste all the way
fathom echo
yeah i dont have rank 3 yet dont think it will be better
fallow otter
nah it wont be
static fable
Hello, everyone, got some questions bout envenom dmg, can somebody tell me, why the difference is so high and what am I should aiming for?https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xc6katDjMWvR3Hhr#fight=3 , rogue линнвайс and any other
static fable
Y, they use twist of knife, I go for 3xdd and nothing personal 2/3, so should I aim for twist of knife?
winter moss
answer to your question: the diffrence is so high because every other rogue in this fight has atleast one TTK Trait. What you should aim for: better azerites
every person has a very individual setup to play due to titanforge and sockets and for some:other traits may sim higher than ttk or simply just dont have it
static fable
Will try to , thank you
dusky bone
Heyya what stats should I prioritize in m+?
placid root
Do you guys have separe sets for mythic + and raids ?
rigid mango
Yep
dusky bone
Yea the stats are diff for single target and multi
But trying to decide what is better for fortified weeks
lethal badge
is assasination viable in mythic plus... love their playstyle and jw if they are capable of pushing into the 20's
rigid mango
Stats and traits are entirely diff p much
dusky bone
They are good
rigid mango
Ok let me put it like this
Otl >> sin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any other class
You'll be more than fine as sin
dusky bone
Do you want ttk above eb?
rigid mango
To compete with outlaws on max level you jusy have go play the spec p much flawlessly
lethal badge
awesome thats great to hear! cuz i played r pally but screw them cuz they are hella boring
fallow otter
what you gambling second guys? i guess helm considering zaqul is gonna be a bit to get down and behe chest is nice with OP
rigid mango
This week I'd say 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss is the best
I rolled helm this week
Got the best one 
dusky bone
Is stacking ss not as good anymore?
fallow otter
pog
rigid mango
Uhh
SS is a weird trait
It's very good in kr, and ToS too
I'd take 3 there
But the issue is as soon as you go past 3t it gets outscaled by eb and outvalued by ttk a lot of the time
dusky bone
Ooh
rigid mango
It also has a specific range where it is super good
Obv 3t, but also level etc
Too low and they die too fast, you lose value, too high and they outlive dot by much, you lose value
If shit dies in sync with the garrote timer, it's really good
So there's a lot of feel and knowledge needed
dusky bone
It’s been awhile I play monk mostly
mellow swift
Hey guys, are sims accurate about trinket combinations, especially coral+ink and coral+font. Because the right usage is crusial
rigid mango
Coral + font is probably BiS, and the usage is in #tc-updates
severe sedge
how come MA and changing my SS trait on chest sims worse?
rigid mango
SS and sub isn't too far behind MA
severe sedge
its 500 ahead for me
rigid mango
Aye but in a minmaxed world
mellow swift
Yeah i know. My thoughts are, that sims may favor coral+font because the usage is much more linear and coral+ink is was more situational in the optimal use.
Second question would be, does Vendetta boost inkpod?
rigid mango
100% stunkei
Why not
By the time u have 200k for specific one you'll either have zaq helm or have a chance at it
seems like a huge waste to not just RNG for smol dps upgrade
fallow otter
yeh agree
severe sedge
my thought was to get some, upgrade for progress and get a socket for next slot
never got ant socket
rigid mango
@fallow otter u ok bud?
rigid mango
visual mesa
Hey guys, how exactly does loyalty to the end work, how many people need to use it for it to be good?
rigid mango
You can sim the diff on raidbots
opal meadow
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/23#boss=2304&class=Rogue when did outlaw take over on ashvane?