weren't you asking before? i'm pretty sure plenty of people answered
#assassination
lost horizon
it depends on your other trinkets
if it's your only on use just pop it asap
as in, apply it so that you'll have stacks for next vendetta
tacit plinth
is it worth transitioning to engi helm this late?
lost horizon
Sim it out, see if it's worth it to you
tacit plinth
How many weeks does it take from the raid drop?
fleet copper
You can make the 430 pretty easily, otherwise about two full clears should get you the 445 version
lost horizon
do you have to refarm the items for the focus if you already did it for leatherworking or something?
honest needle
u pop lucid when the first toxic blade ends right ? if we using it as a major ?
lost horizon
i've never really swapped professions
rigid mango
@honest needle pins.
arctic walrus
Zine find me a pfp ❤
civic palm
That's a daring ask.
balmy quest
Pfp?
civic palm
Just do this
rigid mango
arctic walrus
Maybe I just go the easy route and find a random anime pic
marble elm
no
arctic walrus
At this point this profile pic is more iconic than anything else I can find
Is zaqul dead @marble elm
marble elm
Should be tomorrow
arctic walrus
How's my boy Drew doing in there
marble elm
He hasn’t been in for a lot because he joined right before the tier
pliant sorrel
Is cyclonic blast only supposed to be used in energy lless windows? I feel like I’m sitting on it off cd a real long time
fleet copper
The item should be in the camp, so I don’t believe you need to refarm it
arctic walrus
spice frost
@pliant sorrel I’ve been getting it used just before 2nd Tb right after vendetta expires. Shouldnt cap energy if it’s not a hero on pull boss and use it right after a finisher.
During hero it’s a little harder but I generally use it in the same spot and just overcap for a second. Whether that’s optimal or not idk.
tribal marlin
Speaking about parse I did #17 on sivara with a 4:15 kill timer, I delayed my 2nd vendetta for like 10 sec and I didn't get a 3rd cast xD
pliant sorrel
@spice frost yeah, i'll try that, when hero is popped i just never lose enegry, especilally when trying to get lucid major off CD, thanks dude
@stone fable How to use Razer Coral trinket?
- For Assa, stack the crit conversion use with Vendetta. Coral also has a great synergy with the Dribbling Inkpod sub 30%.
stone fable
copy that thanks for the info
nimble tartan
That’s true mikhasa my m+ setup is strong as hell
fallow otter
@marble elm got any tips for spec for zaq that you can offer? im guessing leeching poison, maybe run lucid/vop?
wintry wadi
For Echoing Blades, is 1+ better, or do the benefits not increase past 1 piece? Like Arcanic Pulsar for bewmy's
marble elm
Mythic or heroic
I’m just using blood/vision + leeching poison
At no point should you be in danger of dying so leeching is pretty easy pick
pliant sorrel
when is blood better than memory? bout to get rank 2, started a little late this patch
i guess i can just get 100 more honor, but just curious
1000*
marble elm
Rank 3 but also depends on gear/stats
pliant sorrel
figured it was a stat thing, thank you, rank 3 boutta be a hot minute lol
spice frost
@pliant sorrel yea I’m sure using lucid major it becomes even harder. Right now I run bote major lucid minor so
pliant sorrel
yeah, maybe i just needa use it right before popping memory, but it'd be during a vendetta window so idk
ill try ur way out
sullen sphinx
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4xiGXXLGF1nJQQ7yYpfdVs
r3 lucid simming higher than r3 clf ? since its only 94 dps should i just roll with clf anyway?
fallow otter
@marble elm mythic, i dont have blood3 so im guessing lucid/vop is the move more leech also
marble elm
Clf might just be better tbh or anything but lucid
arctic walrus
lucid major is pointless on zaq
marble elm
The only real check is when you have 80% haste
arctic walrus
clf during dmg amp will give you more
marble elm
You don’t really need the leech from lucid either
Blood 3 is probably the best choice if you can get it
Up for both splits
fallow otter
mmmmm god... i just dont have the time
arctic walrus
I had to have our pally kill me on first split cuz leeching kept me so heatlhy
fallow otter
wintry mica
is there a better opener for MA than the one listed on ravenholdt? I thought you wanted to have CP going into toxic blade to ensure you get 3 envenoms off
sullen sphinx
@fallow otter ooo thanks
wintry mica
nvm im dumb with MA you have the crit chance so you are almost always going to have 4+ cp after the first muti
stable plinth
Have any of you guys ever left the delirium realm on Zaqul, cloaked and stood on a slam tentacle (the floor one)
And have them kill you through cloak as you phase out?
warm harbor
@sullen sphinx long story short if you are running with really low haste then lucid dreams will be rated really high, but bringing your haste up CLF will take over as top and you will generally be able to reach higher dps
marble elm
@stable plinth if you stand in more than 1 you die
wintry mica
I tried to die with cloak on this week a few pulls but didnt get it to work
can anyone confirm whether that immunes the stun?
quasi pewter
it doesnt
fallow otter
so... i got told that if you run sub instead of MA that font doesnt break stealth... is this shit true lol
quasi pewter
yes with sub alot of things dont break stealth that normally do with ma
drifting cloud
and heartstone
fallow otter
more racism
meager nebula
wintry mica
so i've now found 3 different "best openers" for MA with no SS can anyone help me out with whats the right one?
quasi pewter
apl is usually correct but the difference between openers is very minimal
wintry mica
since bleeds dont snapshot anymore i assume that the ravenholdt one that uses two of your first MA gcds on garrote and rupture is incorrect?
arctic walrus
@marble elm you running coral/inkpod?
quasi pewter
its the "old" opener, according to sims opening mut rupt mut is apparantly a little bit better
wintry mica
yea thats what i figured, mut rupt mut garr vend then vanish TB
drifting cloud
its probably less than 50 dps difference for what its worth
wintry mica
I guess you just gain one extra mut with the crit bonus
quasi pewter
yea alot of people are still doing the old one it really doesnt matter much
wintry mica
and I assume every vanish is : vendetta vanish TB?
quasi pewter
doesnt have to be
you can tb before vanish and env mut env
or whatever really aslong as the 3 gcds in MA are tb mut or envenom
wintry mica
it seems like getting 2 env off would be better, but I guess you risk getting unlucky and only having a 2-3 cp env for the second
good point
fallow otter
i wonder if TTK traits mean do envenom, DD means hit mut im sure the difference is very minor
quasi pewter
apl i think just vanishes on cd and does whatever is ready
mut env mut aswell
idk if thats 100% optimized though
wintry mica
so what about the opener I saw that was mut rupture mut garrote then vendetta vanish, so you have guaranteed 4+cp after TB?
wait i mixed that up
nvm
quasi pewter
you can tb either gcd before or after vanish
same thing as was said before
either vanish tb env mut or vanish env mut env if ur lucky
wintry mica
I wish i didnt have to wait 2 minutes between each pull on the dummy lol but I appreciate the help, ive just now got rid of all my SS traits so i swapped to MA
lost horizon
You could consider tracking your crit in case you have any procs
Cause if you can hit 50% Crit or much closer to it than your baseline you should probably vanish env rather than vanish TB
But TB does the same damage as like, a 3cp env I think? So it's not bad
wintry mica
im only at 32.5% crit baseline
drifting cloud
thats pretty normal?
wintry mica
last question, is it worth casting TB at 5 CP if it comes off cd
drifting cloud
yes you can tb at 5 cp raymuss
wintry mica
thats what I figured
drifting cloud
not ideal, but not a huge deal
quasi pewter
i almost have more haste % than crit % now 
ty clf
lost horizon
Really? With CLF my Crit is still top
Coming from BotE major though
So I had a bunch of haste to begin with
drifting cloud
I have 85 vers somehow
and all my stat weights are like 0.3 apart from 1st to last
🤷
lost horizon
My mastery value is low af cause of loyal
civic palm
ye
sharp viper
sims always tell me to get more haste if i drop below 1700 haste rating
quasi pewter
and this is with 1,7k haste and 1,1k crit or so i think
drifting cloud
46.8 
pliant sorrel
does ashvanes lower crit value?
quasi pewter
i can switch to troll for +100 dps
tacit plinth
It seems too tommy
its fucked all my stats up
had me drop from 1100 to 700 crit and it feels horrible I hate it
quasi pewter
700 yikes
tacit plinth
i've been worried about it all day but people say it sims correctly
drifting cloud
is that with clf3/lucid ?
inland stump
Hey, prolly dumb question, but what is the optimal use of Ashvane's Razor Coral? got it last night, but feels like im using it wrong..
shy dust
Check the pins
inland stump
cheers:)
tacit plinth
I think between blood and coral its just assuming that we'll have 100% crit during burst windows and therefore no need for it throughout most of the fight but it feels pretty horrible like 40% of my crit
gusty ice
4 heroic clears, 3/8m twice, and I have 1 430 piece, no trinkets, no weapons. Thanks for personal loot, blizz. 😃 oh yeah and the 445 I rolled was worse than my 420 😄 kill me
civic palm
gusty ice
Yaya ok
civic palm
GL next week on the loot though <3
patent topaz
I got a 440 dagger with speeeed
sharp lily
Now you can stab really fast.
patent topaz
37k sim at 423
lost horizon
oof
verbal rapids
Are any traits competitive? Or is the same build im seeing for EP the go to
severe bough
Okay i have a very tricky question
how bad game-play wise is to use 2 on-use trinket effects?
and im not talking about coral-font
but Font-Plumage
got a phat 445 plumage which gives me like 700 more dps on sims, but like, how should i use it, prepull with Font, then Plumage as soon as it's possible, then rinse repeat?
winter moss
keep it up 
severe bough
winter moss
iirc plumage got also 2min cd
severe bough
Yes
winter moss
ye
severe bough
For sure
tired thistle
Does dagger in the back proc off of FoK?
woven elm
FoK?
tired thistle
Fan of Knives
To answer my own question yes yes it does proc off of FoK
Does shit all for Busrt though was hoping it would proc more but meh
winter moss
dungeonslice but well
civic palm
justBeBehindEverything4head
tulip iris
hi guys good morning from EU. i was thinking about undulating tides trait. sim says better than most of trait but how about his up time? is it good for patchwerk fights?
daring atlas
void gazelle
Someone told me undulating tides damage part still proc under 50% jó.
muted heron
it's lie
tulip iris
i heard that too maybe only defensive side is getting cd on under %50
frigid briar
I'll look into it later. First I heard that
civic palm
If that's the case then it's a bug and needs to be fixed.
frigid briar
Or not fixed* cos dps increase 
frigid briar
I mean we wouldnt need to run the lottery for azerite shoulders
woven elm
At how many stacks should i procc the Ashvane trinket?
woven elm
So its useless in the beginning right?
frigid briar
No
woven elm
Or should i w8 with vandetta when i have at least 2-3 stacks?
civic palm
Gotta start stacking it, not so useless.
frigid briar
Use it in opener to apply it
civic palm
CD is 20 seconds, Vendetta is 20 seconds, works out well.
frigid briar
Also use it 20 seconds from end of fight with toxic blade
Dont let boss die without using it again
woven elm
So i open with Vendetta + trinket
Let the trinket stack till next vendetta is open?
*rdy
civic palm
Does both sides of Coral activate the CD?
drifting cloud
yeah
woven elm
So do i?
civic palm
So, if you just have 1 on use trinket and it's Coral, you can use it on the first GCD of combat and it should cover the last 10 seconds of the first Vendetta. Activate it again once it's off CD, then sync it with further Vendettas.
civic palm
5 - 10 seconds*
shy dust
woven elm
nvm xD
frigid briar
Coral use in opener, then use with vendetta, then use 20 seconds before fight ends. Everytime you use the trinkets stacks you need to reapply the stacking debuff again 20 seconds later. Pair application with toxic blade
woven elm
@shy dust thx
civic palm
Stealth - MUT+Coral - rest of opener - Coral on CD, should have some Vendetta left in it, Sync with Vendetta after that, MAKE SURE to use it within the last 20 seconds of combat.
and yeah if you have Dribbling use it before 30%.
If nothing else run a QuickSIM @ Raidbots and see how it uses it.
Then throw that out because it's probably wrong somehow.
civic palm
Mutilate.
woven elm
Ah okay
civic palm
No worries bud.
hasty vale
I have a question about the font trinket. After opener how do you use it? Do you full charge the channel when its off CD or?
hasty vale
So when Vendetta comes up cast it full charge then hit vendetta and go ham
Sounds good
obtuse ruin
dang still cant figure out what traits to run in m+
people doing triple shroud or triple TTK and some triple EB...
hardy mural
Is inkpod that good for ashvane M prog? Is it better to use coral inkpod rather than coral font for prog?
hasty vale
If you have coral from heroic it's even better.
solid nova
Inkpod is great for Ashvane
hardy mural
Yes i have coral. Was wondering just for prog purposes, is it better to switch font with inkpod
To pair with my hc coral
Perhaps the answer is yes then 😄
drifting cloud
its probably slightly better yeah
since 30% on ashvane isnt 30% of her actual hp so just makes inkpod even slightly better because you stack it longer
drifting cloud
100 too much ilvl on neck I think?
arctic walrus
good thanks
patent topaz
Yea looks like it
median harbor
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
mighty elm
sudden ocean
So just stack up as many stacks as I can on coral and pop it as i use vendetta?
mighty elm
sudden ocean
is that some sort of Eurospeak for yes?
is there a specific amount of stacks I should shoot for or just as many as I can get
upbeat geode
thats russian for Yes, since russian keyboards dont have normal letters
sudden ocean
can they not afford the extra keys?
upbeat geode
some do, some dont
sudden ocean
We should be crowdfunding these poor people some keys
mighty elm
you thick sculled ?
sudden ocean
No if I was I'd probably be your brother comrade
solid nova
🙄 Take the cat fight somewhere else
agile oar
anyone got tips for mythic plus and rotations and aserite gear
I want to climb this season high
silver musk
Seli is a beast for m+
harsh sphinx
||*Seli is a beast||
little crow
how low would you drop haste for m+?
drifting cloud
However much you have on neck
little crow
fair enough xd
drifting cloud
Check the link above if seli did any runs yet this week
Doubt he swapped alot from what he ran last week tho
little crow
yea, think the only thing he swapd is his azerite pretty much
was just wondering if theres a bottom line since i only play rogue as an alt
lone mirage
Hello all , i think statweight are not reliable anymore , ive 13% haste on my sin ( mm+ stuff) and because of lucid dream , top gear dont want me to put another ring with haste, all said to follow sim, but i cant imagine what my gameplay will be out of lucid with 13%
Other expérience like that ?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
fervent jasper
I know you're supposed to run low haste in m+, but what about raid? I have 1500 haste, 2 overwhelming powers, and lucid and my single target sims still tell me to stack more haste
winter moss
show sim
summer marten
you using raid essence?
winter moss
worth mentioning: we cant help you at all if you dont provide exact information. having 1500 haste is nice, but there is more to a character than stats. essences/traits/benthics and so on
summer marten
rank 2 bote is not that great as far as i know
fiery gull
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
night vale
6 mins sim also, plus trinkets are not the best
fervent jasper
@summer marten I use it with Master Assassin to make it worth it to use env/mut/env inside my vanish windows
Will that affect my haste priority?
Those dice have been really hard to get rid of. I got a 430 inkpod that didnt even sim higher than the dice
fervent jasper
So with high haste, lucid minor, and double overwhelming, in my current situation i need to keep stacking haste?
night vale
I mean haste stacking start to become really worth with condensed life force rank 3 major
fervent jasper
Maybe but I wont have that until next week
night vale
I wouldn’t worry too much about start prio atm just try and get some better essences + gear
fervent jasper
Tryna figure out why it wants me to have more haste now
My current item level is 433 in my raid gear and I have BiS traits
night vale
Oh right, only reason I said is cause I’m similar Ilvl to your sim above and about 12k dps higher
fervent jasper
Do you have 445 azerite?
night vale
Nah, I have 2 420s and 445 engi goggles
fervent jasper
I'm sitting on two 420s and a 430
weak vine
Font and coral. Me jelly :(
winter moss
2 benthics left to get
fervent jasper
I guess I need to get rank 3 BOTE then
winter moss
that dagger is yuuuuuuge
night vale
oooooooft
fervent jasper
I got two 455 socketed rings back to back
low junco
weak vine
STOOOP
fervent jasper
Yeah. The one from shrine and the one from UR
low junco
weak vine
Sivara refuses to give me helm or dagger on mythic
fervent jasper
Consecutive runs
low junco
sivara gave me the dagger
fervent jasper
455 sockets
low junco
gachibass
weak vine
430 queens court daggers 
winter moss
^
night vale
yeah ive got a few sockets 😛
weak vine
Main hand weapon dps holy fuck what are you on
Had 405 off-hand socketed for the longest time
fervent jasper
I have 9 sockets as outlaw but only 8 as sin :/
mighty elm
wat
weak vine
Eckss dee
low junco
sockets okaychamp
weak vine
Btw does your bote still sim better than life-force?
turbid osprey
weak vine
I wouldnt know i dont have trinkets to use bote
fervent jasper
Bote is trinket dependent?
fervent jasper
Wouldn't you always want it when playing master assassin to ensure crits?
winter moss
MA doesnt ensure anything
weak vine
Do i do all my damage during the first 5 seconds?
winter moss
just gives you 50% crit for 3 secs
weak vine
I like lucid major better tbh
fervent jasper
50% crit from master assassin
weak vine
With which major?
fervent jasper
25% from bote
low junco
lucid
fervent jasper
On top of your base crit
weak vine
Nice math
night vale
i still dont get why MA doesnt just give you 100% crit like the legendary in legion
so wierd
mighty elm
winter moss
playing MA and rockboi because bote would be 500 dps less
weak vine
More burst more worth imo
scarlet sequoia
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c95Pxq3mMYczFdTscdEwAh hell yeah ive achieved it
fervent jasper
^
low junco
@scarlet sequoia big
weak vine
If its 500 dps then just the encounter length would determine which i would use
Ele golem is gay
low junco
do u know whats the worst feeling
weak vine
Imagine using garrote out of stealth 
weak vine
Just shadowstep in lool
halcyon badger
Guys, vendetta expires before my initial garrote, when do you vanish to double garrote ? When it ends or before the vendetta expires ?
halcyon badger
No i mean. Lemme explain. I play subt + shrouded. I open with garrote rupture garrote vendetta
fervent jasper
@scarlet sequoia thank you, apparently in ST you do want high haste
weak vine
Check the guide it reads there i guess
scarlet sequoia
huh
summer marten
again, depends on your stats and essences
halcyon badger
the vendetta expires before the garrote, do I wait for garrote to expire or vanish and double garrote with vendetta still up hence losing some of the original garrote ?
rotund mural
Guys, 2ss/2eb/2ttk is like the best for m+ right?
low junco
yeah
summer marten
why would you vanish just to apply garrote with vendetta up, it doesnt snapshot like that
halcyon badger
That's what I am asking
cold meteor
^
low junco
@halcyon badger pm
halcyon badger
follow up question then - if I wait for it to expire that means the second vendetta will come up AND END before my vanish is ready. Do I delay my second vendetta 10-15 seconds so I can vanish and double garrote during it ?
rose violet
People still living in MoP
halcyon badger
thank you
upbeat geode
dont refresh empowered garrotes, they tick one more time when it falls off, you want that last tick
mighty elm
what are you saying, how would the garrote fall off before vendetta if you open with gar,rup,gar , vendetta
upbeat geode
i think they were talking about playing with SS traits <- ignore this i misread
small thicket
Yes as @upbeat geode said, let empowered garrote complete fall before reapply
scarlet sequoia
thats still the opener with ss traits 😄
summer marten
he said that vendetta ends before garrote
small thicket
No he was saying does he vanish to redo garrote before vendetta ends
But the snap doesn't work like that
mighty elm
rose violet
You guys are confusing each other
fervent jasper
So you always have to apply the garrote first for it to be affected by vendetta?
summer marten
no
fervent jasper
Didnt think so
summer marten
its dynamic
ember rover
Vendetta is an ability that affects your damage dynamically.
summer marten
while vendetta is up, it boosts garrote, when it ends, it stops
ember rover
No matter when you apply your bleeds and poisons on the target, during vendetta, your abilities will do more damage.
Afterwards, they stop doing more damage.
It does not matter when you apply them.
small thicket
Yes which is why we are saying dont vanish before it ends to re garrote because it doesn't do anything apart from waste empowered duration
rose violet
You can vanish before it expires
summer marten
1gcd before... poop, not on gcd, dont mind me, move along
rose violet
No
scarlet sequoia
jk vanish isnt on gcd
rose violet
You can overwrite an subterfuge garrote with another one
upbeat geode
dont overwrite strong garrotes with weak ones
small thicket
He means another sub garrote
summer marten
but still dont think its right, as you double garrote for max garrote duration anyway, so what you had left on first one is gone, isnt it?
small thicket
Personally I let the first fall and then vanish double garrote
summer marten
yeap, most likely
for me lucid major, iris minor haste is by far last, but when i put clf3 major, lucid minor, haste becomes by far the best (around 0.7 above 2nd best)
native radish
why is everyone playing with blood of the enemy but for me it does sim so bad?
scarlet sequoia
do you have rank 3
native radish
nah rank 2
scarlet sequoia
there you go
low junco
🤣
mighty elm
what everyone? most ppl is raid essence rn
solid nova
The difference in all essences between Rank 2 and Rank 3 is pretty sizable
low junco
i have never tried lfie force
it looks
so weird
i need to check logs if i want to play it anyway 
crisp steppe
?
solid nova
Press it on CD
crisp steppe
it owns on ST
thats it
just check your guilds killtimes or expected killtime to see how many times you can use it
what doesn't own is having to socket haste 😦
idk if its good for outlaw m+ 🤔 its probably ok
vagrant tapir
You use it on CD
it has no synergy with vend
it's asynchronous of our other cooldowns
a little from the haste procs, but not really worth delaying anything for very long
high crypt
@scarlet sequoia my gear seems similar to yours except the rank 3 lucid and you have some higher pieces and you sim 6k more than me :/
zenith gust
the second vendetta you do it without BOTE+vanish, and save BOTE+vanish for TB? damn didnt know this
i always held vendetta until TB off CD and did the same as the opener
upbeat geode
im pretty sure there is a warning on to not use this as a literal dps rotation
zenith gust
so i keep doing what i was doing? hold vendetta a few seconds until i have TB?
upbeat geode
i dont see vanish on your screenshot, but i would use vanish at some point during vendetta
zenith gust
vanish is after BOTE, the textbox cant be expanded xD
upbeat geode
check if the vendetta buff is still up then
zenith gust
yeah it is
upbeat geode
im pretty sure it still is, so its prob worth to save vanish a few secconds
cosmic prism
after using ashvanes with vendetta, should i use cyclo then ashvanes or the other way around?
zenith gust
i think you always use ashvanes with vendetta. like you use it with the first vendetta and start getting stacks, then use all the stacks with the second vendetta
and cyclo when you run out of energy as usual
cosmic prism
yeah im talking like, lets say after the ashvane activation i have cyclo and ashvanes to reapply, which takes priority in that situation?
ruby horizon
how does gameplay change when switching to master assasain from subterfuge ?
winter moss
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
winter moss
you cant use abilities as they were used from stealth anymore after breaking stealth
faint harness
Its supposed to hold vanish and bote for next tb in vendetta
I havent seen a log with bote where it doesnt do this
Sim log*
Also just holding vanish for first tb in vendetta makes sense even without bote
Unless you will kill the boss literally seconds after a vendetta and potentially lose a vanish
solid nova
?
gleaming viper
i read pinned message for BoTE on ST, am i understanding right if i cast like this : vendetta>tb>sotb>vanish>finisher ?
gleaming viper
yeah bote
vagrant tapir
How do you get "sotb" from "blood of the enemy"
gleaming viper
dunno where sotb come from lol
oak flower
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5JbW562utMx4eKFAHBvnoQ any suggestions ?
gleaming viper
@vagrant tapir ty !
vagrant tapir
Suggestions for what
snow zenith
hello just took the razor coral and i was wandering is worth to stack it and use it with vedetta or to use in on cd
gleaming viper
@snow zenith look pinned messages :p
snow zenith
that was down didnt see that earlier thanks
narrow meteor
Does condensated life force stack with coral crit?
narrow meteor
The elem boy can't crit?
winter moss
laxxz thank you for your input its wrong
sure it can crit
where im not sure is if it gets enhanced by the normal crit chance
it works as a normal guardian
vagrant tapir
wot
narrow meteor
It's what I wish to know ^^
rustic minnow
.
vagrant tapir
The question of whether or not the guardian itself is affected by the crit given by the coral, is a different question
But thanks for being an edgy cunt
vagrant tapir
"Does condensated life force stack with coral crit?"
winter moss
Use: Deal (7012 * (1 + Versatility)) Physical damage and apply Razor Coral to your target, giving your damaging abilities against the target a high chance to deal (7012 * (1 + Versatility)) Physical damage and add a stack of Razor Coral.
Reactivating this ability will remove Razor Coral from your target, granting you 105 Critical Strike per stack for 20 sec. (20 Sec Cooldown)```
bright smelt
barrage of bombs better than the normalized gizmo on engi head? 
maybe it's just me but something feels off
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iLCwp4fpACCyWLvt1e6CjJ
vagrant tapir
an effect "stacking" is not the same as asking if the guardian is affected by the crit itself
polar shale
guess the question is more like "can the attacks from the pet proc extra stacks" or smth
winter moss
@bright smelt you were simming dungeon slice
vagrant tapir
Its just a different question
vagrant tapir
Guess it a good opportunity to sound smart though lol
bright smelt
@winter moss you saw nothing
winter moss
i saw what?
and
does clf add razor coral stacks
or
does clf stack with razor coral crit
are two diffrent set of questions and do have diffrent answers
vagrant tapir
Is CLF affected by the crit from the trinket
And does CLF Stack with the trinket
Are 2 different questions
Just because you intimated the actual question, from a different question, does not somehow make my answer wrong
winter moss
Does condensated life force stack with coral crit?
narrow meteor
Yes I use wrong word, I mean scale
vagrant tapir
"[8:35 AM] mac, kpopboi: laxxz thank you for your input its wrong"
But don't worry
You are very edgy and cool
I'll tell my friend
solid nova
vagrant tapir
idc, its just a needless shitty comment
winter moss
either way, crit provided by razor coral does enhance the rockboi, but it does not provide stacks as rockboi has no equipment
crisp steppe
Well u get 10% haste yeah
vagrant tapir
4Head
candid jasper
Is potion of unbridled fury better than superior agility?
winter moss
yes
in higher target count pulls you should use either empowered proximity or superior agility
stiff mason
@bright smelt if u have a gorak tul 420 u should sim it, it gave me around 1,5k+ dps instead the pistoleer
It's good just for m+
upbeat geode
What potions do you guys use? i just saw somone parse 97% with unbridled fury, i never even considered that one
candid jasper
🤣
upbeat geode
lol the conversation is never about potions here! bad timing i guess, thanks ;D
bright smelt
@stiff mason 1.3k dmg loss
if they were both same ilvl I would
but pistols are 445
upbeat geode
noone mentioned focused resolve so im just gonna guess that one isnt good anymore after it got nerfed?
marble elm
@arctic walrus don’t have ink using font coral
winter moss
no it's not good @upbeat geode 
cold rampart
BoTE started to fade in the logs
vast forum
once people got r3 CLF, bote is just pointless
winter moss
the week just started?`or do you mean last week?
upbeat geode
thats fine, just get the last one on farm bosses next reset
lusty narwhal
yeah but Im progging ashvane, would have been lit to get r3 lol
week started 2 days ago
upbeat geode
did you already reclear Hc?
marble elm
Bote isn’t dead essence
Sims very close to clf depending on your gear
~70 for me and that’s worth not being plagued with a 3 min cd
rustic juniper
as someone leveling this class/spec for the first time in years, what am I doing wrong? My energy management seems to be unworkable whatever I do, it seems i just need more energy to do anything, and literally cannot pull 2 mobs at once in solo content without dying
dense blaze
Just walk away from mobs
strange python
love getting declined from m+ groups because i play sin 
rustic juniper
ok, but like... i play every class and at least being able to ABC on all but sin rogue is intuitive enough to me
which i can't
is this class just insanely weak in comparison to everything else while leveling?
rustic juniper
yes but like
twilit portal
CLF disapear here too https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8m7SCwKDM5EniFdm77Moth 😦
rustic juniper
every other class in the game I've played has at least the power to pull 2 quest mobs and not die for it
is this just a thing in leveling or am i missing a trick
dense blaze
Dot shit and it dies, leveling shouldn’t be hard
marble elm
Worldvein 
dense blaze
Consider outlaw
rustic juniper
i am losing 50% health to a single mob and popping vial on every pull
blazing sand
I found outlaw to be easier to lvl with
dense blaze
If you’re in BfA content that’s because you get weaker when you level
Just something you deal with, if you’re outlaw you just roll a GM and stay full HP
tribal marlin
@twilit portal for some reason there is no CLF major + Lucid Minor in your simulation. Edit : oh mb it's your equipped setup maybe
spice frost
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ghKFdJa192yQ5w3sUsTmhM gotta love when your stat weights are so close to even
tribal marlin
What level range are you ?
twilit portal
@tribal marlin yes its my equipped setup
rustic juniper
i'm still finding it a bit odd that I'm struggling to ABC
i mean I can play feral druid well enough and the energy management isn't colossally different
does that get any better with azerite traits?
brisk forge
Make sure to apply DP 🙈
rustic juniper
lol yeah i haven't made that mistake
my bleed uptimes is OK, poisons look OK, it's just energy management I can't seem to win at
quartz rune
I mean energy reg is better on rogue than on feral tbh
rustic juniper
you actually have to pool sometimes? huh. i was assuming I had to flat ABC
tropic ocean
you don't have to do anything
rustic juniper
mind you i don't have any sense of scale yet so be that as it may
tropic ocean
its just dps increase
u can just use tb on cd and keep dots up and spam mutilate
and fit 2 envenom into eb and be fine as well
wise whale
or pull everything and beam it with iris
tropic ocean
??
quartz rune
Yeah thats hard while leveling
tropic ocean
doesn't really make sense but ok
wise whale
ahh leveling
rustic juniper
huh. so by the sounds of it i'm doing everything actually right, just the game says nah you're gonna die a lot
so i'll get it to 120 and give it the time of day
thanks friendos
cosmic prism
@twilit portal does haste sim that high for u? whats wack haste
rigid mango
Not shocking if haste sims that high if you came from lucid major, it cuts the value of haste and you geared accordingly. Swapping major made it want haste again
glossy shoal
so is condensed just not as good as bote?
rigid mango
It is, but it might take a bit to gear into, it's not just an instant powerup with equipping, not always anyways.
median sand
I had a difficult time pooping before TB last night. I feel as though every time TB comes up, my dots have just hit their pandemic zones. Any tips on handling this better?
Rofl pooling*
dense blaze
Pool earlier
tribal marlin
start pooling as soon as your TB ends
then you'll refresh dots at a better timing
General Rule outside of TB/Vendetta is to go to 4+ cp and pool energy to 120-130 before using envenom. Then either use rupture and instantly re-build 4cp (so you do 4 mut in env windows) or just rebuild 4cp and then you pool again before envenom again.
dense blaze
Just always have the most energy
rigid mango
Aslong as you're not capping energy, you're not losing damage
median sand
I see, I must be spamming envenom too often
My haste is also absurdly low at 11%. I’m using lucid major until clf r3, but it’s definitely tough to rebuild quickly
rigid mango
It's only low thanks to the essence, since they make up for the lack of it
obtuse ruin
Is there a baseline azerite traits best for mythic+? Between ss, ttk and eb the best combo...
rigid mango
2/2/2
cedar kernel
blightborne infusion mmmm
median sand
That’s true. Would one of you mind posting a log so I can learn a bit about ability timing? Would be nice to see how someone else spaces it out
obtuse ruin
2/2/2 huh does echo really boost damage that much?
dense blaze
EB is huge
obtuse ruin
Right now I’m running 3ss 2ttk 1eb but lose out to outlaw and fury
dense blaze
Just get another EB and spam fok
hollow stone
OL st with "m+ gear" is probably better than sin. If you want to have big end of run number just go 3ss 3eb. Personally i think the prio of having ttk in there is worth losing some overall dmg
glass relic
imagine playing outlaw man... sheesh
cosmic prism
if you dont play outlaw for m+ ur doing it wrong
fringe epoch
who hurt you
cosmic prism
he had to rtb more than 2 times so he raged 
even on tyrannical outlaw's are king, m+ as assassination is painful
ember rover
I mean, go check M+ rankings. All top teams are using 2-3 outlaws.
rigid mango
Imagine being this delusional 
marble elm
Me?
zinc furnace
Do you guys use regular rotation on ashvane or hold vendetta / essence cds?
Opener i mean
rigid mango
I personally hold because of RL's choice, but odds are that changes tonight
cobalt pelican
just play 6ss and be nelf
verbal mantle
depends on what your RL is telling you to do
I hold Vendetta for the off-shield phase
rigid mango
It's down entirely to what your RL wants though, not you really
verbal mantle
yeh
upbeat geode
i had to hold condensed life, but got to use everything else
polar cape
Is SS worth on mythic court?
upbeat geode
in theory you can get 4 globals in your opener, so you could get 2 empowered garrotes running if you shadowstep perfectly so i'd say yes, but its feelscraft
polar cape
Alright thx
rigid mango
It's not feel craft at all 😄
YOu just garrote step garrote
Idk how that's ever hard
upbeat geode
you garrote garrote, step garrote garrote
frigid briar
Wut
marble elm
No
frigid briar
Nice cancel bro
rigid mango
frigid briar
rigid mango
You get 3 of them, not 4
upbeat geode
did i missremember, then nevermind
rigid mango
3 GCD's within sub
frigid briar
Id avoid using SS on that fight if im totally honest
marble elm
It will probably be a lot better later farm
rigid mango
Realistically I don't think it's too bad atm either
But I'd rather just stick to a consistant plan
vital haven
you totally can emp garrote garrote shs garrote
rigid mango
Obviously
You can only fit 3 GCD's inside of sub, but you still have a bunch of leniancy between the 3rd and 4th one
just not enough for the 4th one
leaden garden
Hey guys, any tips for energy pooling? I think I play too reckless, often only fitting in 2 envenoms in my TB window, sometimes 3.
crisp steppe
just think ahead
don't play as much in the moment. make sure you have the information you need to make decisions clearly available
fossil forge
Dont play like a warr
crisp steppe
if you feel like you're not improving maybe consider recording your own gameplay. look back at it later and see if you would do things differently
rigid mango
logs
crisp steppe
recording your own gameplay will be much easier to decipher
onyx sandal
Quick question for you all. The ashvane trinket. It has a 20 second CD but does it have the usual interaction putting other on use trinkets on CD when used?
crisp steppe
it does that yes
onyx sandal
Hmmm. So I am guessing it is not advisable to use that trinket and the mechagon cyclotron equipped at the same time
marble elm
Record your gameplay watch it back and think about what decisions you would make before it happens and see if you did them or not
That would really only help if you know what you should be doing though
crisp steppe
they can work togheter. it just might be a hassle.
like sivarra I would use mine typically on the 1st barrage
leaden garden
3 EB and 3 SS, is that good for m+? O should I go with 1-2 SS instead?
crisp steppe
just might end up blocking out good moments you would use cyclotronic and vice versa. but thats up to you to manage
leaden garden
Worth sacrificing 1 SS for tidal waves/tradwinds, or they to meh?
crisp steppe
SS is great in m+ if you can get restealths
idk what tidal waves is. wouldn't bother with tradewinds
fossil forge
How do you use font and coral together? Is there a pin
fossil forge
Gotcha
strange python
Font prepull then coral per usual. W/ first vend then again for 2nd vend
vocal lion
Zaqul trinket is good?
crisp steppe
no
zinc furnace
Fellow rogues, apologies for a question, i know i can get an answer by simming, but im sure there is a simple answer ahead of it. Is there a big performance difference between same ilvl socketed benthic waists? Abberations one and phys dmg+threat.
cobalt pelican
if you're hitting an aberration it's prolly like 500dps or something in favour of the aberration one
pls note: this is a random made up number
rigid mango
@fossil forge When using font and coral, use font at 5 seconds on pulltimer and coral as soon as possible after that. At your next vendetta window, use font 14 seconds prior to casting vendetta, and coral 6 seconds into vendetta, meaning you get a 14 second window of both font and coral inside vendetta. Reapply coral as soon as you can after that.
cobalt pelican
the coral value after the apl changes is so disgust actually
the heroic one is like 900dps or something for me
rigid mango
When did the APL changes happen?
fossil forge
@rigid mango youre the MVP thanks bro ill practice jt
cobalt pelican
one day i will get it : ' )
rigid mango
Is that with or without font?
shy dust
What was the APL change fairy?
tacit plinth
coral ruined my stat weights 
rigid mango
Uhh for me it's a 400 one
and I missed out on two of them yesterday because friends of RL got dibs
cobalt pelican
i think they just changed it so that coral will get pressed even if the vendetta debuff is <10sec now anywhere up to 4 seconds
so it actually more consistently overlaps them
smoky dew
I'm comparing myself with other rogues around the same ilevel and sorta the same traits (not exactly). All i see is rogues that do 30k higher envenom crits and 20k higher normal envenom hits whilst all the other damage sources are compareable.. Am i missing something here? 🤔
cobalt pelican
you would need to provide some sort of like
thing for us to look at
that's not anecdotal
obtuse ruin
anyone using coral in m+? 
lethal heart
Ttk traits/deeper strata/maybe font trinket
rigid mango
Font feels so good for m+
lethal heart
Lots od variables there
cobalt pelican
i need to get better at using it in raids even
smoky dew
well i can post a log, but its utter shit 😛
cobalt pelican
i made myself a bouncing weakaura for it when its 10sec till ready
and i still fucked it up on reclear
like 4 times
obtuse ruin
sebek 😮 you still not doing m+ a lot?
rigid mango
I think I've got it pretty down, I'm just scared of using it + coral whenever I get a fucking coral
lethal heart
dont do much really
obtuse ruin
@crisp steppe I was the one awho asked xd
smoky dew
so i'm comparing myself ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pw8NFqnWAdQV64Tm#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=27) with this random rogue ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wqry9pNCHvWG1jgT#fight=11&type=damage-done&source=9 ) and im wondering why their crits are that much higher for envenom
crisp steppe
asked what
rigid mango
Just use it correctly then
cobalt pelican
he's playing 3x twist the knife
rigid mango
Am I?
obtuse ruin
oh gg
rigid mango
Font feels really good when used correctly
crisp steppe
font makes a lot of sense in m+
rigid mango
there's so much downtime atm in m+
smoky dew
i had 2x twist the knife though?
obtuse ruin
and I get like 2-3 stacks max for adds
crisp steppe
yeah it doesn't feel good to use at all @obtuse ruin
rigid mango
You had one
rigid mango
Your setup is all over the fucking place
rigid mango
like, you're getting nowhere with that setup, dps wise
placid dawn
maybe he forgot to switch from m+ gear to raid gear 😂
crisp steppe
does font scale EB damage though for m+ 🤔
smoky dew
ah no i ran shrouded indeed, sorry.
smoky dew
But the difference is then because TtK?
proven lance
this the belt I should be targeting?
cobalt pelican
the majority of it will be yeah
proven lance
from the benthic that is
cobalt pelican
there'll be other things like amount of masteyr procs from dice
dusk onyx
Can someone tell me how high the punchcards can roll?
rigid mango
@proven lance that's the best for orgo + zaqul, other one is better on any other boss
crisp steppe
455 @dusk onyx
cobalt pelican
but you're never going to have 55k average envenom cast with 1ttk
smoky dew
okay, just thought it was a bit much 30k difference with crits, but that explains i guess
thanks 😃
dusk onyx
Good god, so the bis trinket bil be this shit
rigid mango
Wat
sonic spindle
!weakauras
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
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https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
obtuse ruin
zine what traits you running for m+?
nocturne tinsel
depends on traits
if you have SS you wanna run subt but if not you run MA
i think they are fairly even dps wise
rigid mango
@obtuse ruin 2/2/2 or 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss atm
I mix it up abit depending on what, but debating going to darkside atm 
nocturne tinsel
yeah outlaw is gross
obtuse ruin
I go to sleep every day wanting to go outlaw then I remember roll the bones
also do you never go triple SS or not worth the TTK loss?
marble elm
u don’t know true outlaw pain unless u played it early legion
obtuse ruin
just to pump damage
marble elm
Press curse of the dreadblades and use every global of it refilling
rigid mango
Uhh, I go 3 SS in Tyr KR keys
torn spoke
does any know if [Potion of Unbridled Fury] is any good for assa ?
rigid mango
Yes, the best
I don't think 3SS is worth it outside of maybe tyr ToS keys too(?)
but idk
obtuse ruin
like dps loss or just not worth losing prio damage? I gotta be honest I just want to pump and not care about key
rigid mango
SS is a weird trait
nocturne tinsel
@torn spoke unbridled is the best atm
rigid mango
It becomes worse at higher keys, and lower keys
it has a very smooth middle ground though
iron heath
Hey guys is r3 lucid and r2 iris the standard way to roll now ?
torn spoke
@nocturne tinsel thanks alot
obtuse ruin
hmm makes sense I guess since adds wont die too quickly or too slow
obtuse ruin
I need to start getting used to 2-2-2 build
rigid mango
it's a very weird middle ground
2/2/2 just feels nuts for like 3-5 target pulls
I'd say 2/2/2 is fucking nuts in UR for example
iron heath
I have bote 1
balmy quest
Got to roll another set of shoulders and got the worst in slot fml
balmy quest
RNG gearing is so bad
rigid mango
👻
iron heath
Hmm I haven’t been able to figure how to sim ess
obtuse ruin
yeah simming is weird af for m+
vagrant tapir
Sang monstrosity is the worst thing that can happen to a man
rigid mango
@iron heath go to the bottom of raidbots
rigid mango
Where the essences are
balmy quest
that is two sets of garbo shoulders
rigid mango
and press advanced controls
balmy quest
inb4 I have to roll 10 times for gorak
rigid mango
there you can pick and match whichever essence at whatever level you want
and compare
iron heath
Oh. Home page ?
rigid mango
top gear
iron heath
Or quick sim
rigid mango
Top gear.
iron heath
Oh I didn’t download simulation craft because my computer warned me
umbral fiber
^Yo I just dropped 435 galecaller, do I still pair it with vendetta or just off cd?
rigid mango
Use on CD
torn spoke
raidbot or simulationcraft ? or bouth ?atm i use bouth but get a litle confused cus they say so diffrent things
cobalt pelican
scrap it