Yeah, jsut feels really awkward when UC procs during movement or just before movement
#assassination
valid spoke
celest mirage
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
thin patio
Yes
raven scaffold
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
thin patio
Yes
thin patio
Yes
solemn meadow
got a WA for it?
solemn meadow
that tracks it or makes a sound when you reach 30%
raven scaffold
You guys use Font of Power in every boss? If not , which ones? Got coral , inkpod and FoP
strange python
So I just dropped this, and my second best trinket is My'das Talisman 440. How should I manage cooldowns of these? Or is it even worth bothering with My'das'es use effect?
red plaza
should give you an idea of what to run
red plaza
when you use vendetta again
dusk onyx
Is it just me or is CLF rank 3 not as nice as bote rank3!?
red plaza
then after the crit buff wears off reapply it again
sick eagle
ok ty
glad horizon
im correct in assuming loyal to the end stat boost doesnt stack with multiple traits?
just finding it weird a 2nd loyal is simming better than a scent of blood
bleak spoke
Anything sims better than sob
shy axle
strange python
why the fuck does undulating tides sim so well
glad horizon
but 2 loyal? if the mastery stats dont stack
undulating assumes you dont go below 50% health im sure in sims
strange python
true
quasi pewter
pretty sure the mastery does stack no?
gleaming viper
i read pinned message for sotb on ST, am i understanding right if i cast like this : vendetta>tb>sotb>vanish>finisher ?
storm jewel
Does rogue vanish give extra 50% crit on inkpod hit?
full flame
What is the go to potion now? Still unbridled fury even after the nerf?
strange python
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bhXNPM6RLAgBrw4W/#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=14 Heya, this was my first heroic raid on assasination rogue, I'm not performing good yet, can I get some tips?
dense blaze
Your opener is very bad
nocturne gate
is the apl correct atm for assa ? i used a quick sim to see how it use font and noticed that the opener use muti muti rup gar
pseudo hamlet
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
brisk canopy
I also have the issue of having two on use trinket (Ashvane Coral & Lustrous Plumage) both 440 and I have no idea on what's the best way to use the CDs or if I should drop Lustrous for something else
strange python
@dense blaze what should I be doing? I always try to do 2 mutilate, rupture, 2 mutilate, garrote, vendetta, toxic blade, vanish, envenom
but sometimes I mess it up
dense blaze
You didn't garrote until 39 seconds that pull
And your uptime is sub 60%
Need to do better dot uptime
fringe oxide
I'm also curious about how to manage both razor coral and font of power together.
strange python
should I bother using rupture and garrote in lucid dreams or vendetta?
I think most of my uptime is missing from these
fringe oxide
Coral is already a little unorthodox, so adding another use trinket like font with it is confusing.
@strange python Definitely use garrote and rupture in both of those windows. They're still damage, even if they're dots... and they're actually high damage returns at that.
dense blaze
It is crucial to have both dots up
fringe oxide
Though you should typically try to apply both bleeds before vendetta.
fringe oxide
Anyone know about the double use trinkets though?
versed finch
Coming back to the game, havent raided since ulduar. Sin still good for raids and mythic +?
warm summit
font and coral are bis trinkets, they work fine once you realize how to work them in
versed finch
Ok cool. Thanks Serra
warm summit
font gets cast on prepull with pot then you do your opener, after 20s you apply razor coral to target, then pop razor coral on your next vedetta rotation
woven needle
What's up with all the 2 minute sims
shell lodge
@strange python https://wowanalyzer.com/ try this.
warm summit
put it at 8m make it realistic
strange python
âh fml ... was ,my fault.. simming for hc -.-
woven needle
I don't get some of these damage sims like I'm at 35k I don't think r2 to r3 cdl makes that difference up
strange python
4k dps the r3 vn condens. on the same sim
modest tendon
Could visions of perfection work with a ttk build? Obviously it’s useless on linger fights but it could work on trash?
strange python
increase
quartz dew
0.2% increase for rank 3 condensed, think I'll just keep blood lol
cerulean kernel
Any pointers available for M Ashvane? Going in tonight on progression.
warm summit
coral on ground hurts bad mkay
cerulean kernel
raja
dense blaze
Cloak the bubble
cerulean kernel
in a specific phase to cloak bubble?
warm summit
i know it may be bad... but i found it easier to get thrown up and then shadowstep to the bubbles, better view from above :p
dense blaze
I just did it whenever targeted cause it didn't target me much
brisk canopy
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rigid mango
He means the explosion of coral shrapnel that you have to soak, I assume
And yes, it knocks you away
cerulean kernel
Thank you for info. Font sims better but i may run inkpod for this fight since its progression It looks like it would help on the execution phase
solemn meadow
damn
strange python
Hey sorry for asking this but when do u guys use the coral ?
solemn meadow
he must have had insane procs
rigid mango
He also has a 455 one
strange python
at pull and every vendetta ?
solemn meadow
depends on your other trinket
rigid mango
It's in the pins
rigid mango
Should be using it with the second 😄
solemn meadow
I trust my sim 🤷
rigid mango
Sim isn't updated
It's a APL limitation or smth
Since the correct way to use isn't supported by sims or smth
There should be a pin about ot soon-ish
tacit plinth
for those who got Coral did you find your sims start to rapidly devalue crit?
rigid mango
They should devalue them a bit, yeah
tacit plinth
I'm down to 800 crit from 1100 and its still saying go full into mastery
rigid mango
Are you running CLF as major?
rigid mango
Swap to outlaw.
solemn meadow
next time
rigid mango
it's the one fight where I 100000% tell everyone to go orgo
solemn meadow
rigid mango
It's a giga outlaw fight
warm summit
Is there a weakaura guru out there?
lucid bolt
switching specs should be illegal
magic shell
xD It's sad they're all playing outlaw this week too
rigid mango
There is a WA guru around here, aint seen him today though 👀
drifting fulcrum
Is it Worth to use coral + font At the same time ?
wet zealot
how do i use azshara's font of power + ashvane's razor coral
rigid mango
Will tell after this boss 1 sec
warm summit
pot @ 5s / font / stealth / open 20s later apply coral.. pop coral at next vendetta rotation
placid dawn
you use font 10s before vendetta
than pop coral at the tail end of vendetta
you can sim youself and check the sample ability log
rigid mango
Sorta
When using font and coral, use font at 5 seconds on pulltimer and coral as soon as possible after that. At your next vendetta window, use font 14 seconds prior to casting vendetta, and coral 6 seconds into vendetta, meaning you get a 14 second window of both font and coral inside vendetta. Reapply coral as soon as you can after that.
warm summit
From my own understanding:
Pull Timer 10s / pot & font @ 5s / stealth & opener, after the 20s internal cd on the coral trinket, apply to target and continue your rotation, when your next vendetta is ready pop it to use coral stacks and begin vedetta rotation again.
vestal abyss
Hi! Can we get a discussion about queens court going
rigid mango
In what sense
vestal abyss
What are you guys' thgouhts during that fight
silver musk
yo guys do i need keep my vendetta for Azeroth essence on Behemoth
wet zealot
The thing is tho when my second vendetta comes up and i use coral, how about font of power ?
silver musk
or use it on cd?
rigid mango
@silver musk pins
silver musk
oh soz thanks
rigid mango
like
I literally
answered your question aggro
When using font and coral, use font at 5 seconds on pulltimer and coral as soon as possible after that. At your next vendetta window, use font 14-10 seconds prior to casting vendetta, and coral 6-10 seconds into vendetta, meaning you get a 14-10 second window of both font and coral inside vendetta. Reapply coral as soon as you can after that.
Optimally use at 14
light kestrel
In case anyone else is... challenged like me. You can have 1 of the 80 agi gem and one of the 120 agi gem socketed at the same time, you also don't need JC to use the 120 gem.
placid dawn
shouldnt the coral + font use be on the pins?
sharp lily
@light kestrel 80 agi gem isnt worth using imo
light kestrel
At least for me, it simmed higher then haste gem did
rigid mango
This is a feelycraft-free discord
sharp lily
Im not feelycrafting
rigid mango
"imo" never anything good after 😄
sharp lily
Mathematically it shouldnt.
rigid mango
Depends entirely on your stat weights
nocturne gate
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jeReVDbQSC2fXeCpE2naya/simc
is it recommend currently to follow the opener even with the overcap of cps at opener ?
rigid mango
What overcap?
gusty ice
I assume he's talking about getting a 4CP 2nd mut
placid dawn
it got 3cp after fist mut which means you mut again
if it had gotten 4 cp it would have ruptured and then done another mut
rigid mango
The APL assumes non crit, I think
rigid mango
Wouldn't make sense
gusty ice
mut/rup/mut/gar/CLF/Vendetta/vanish/TB means overcapping with the TB a lot
gusty ice
yes. If the 2nd mut gives you 4 CPs. Then you garrote.... then you CLF/Ven/Vanish/TB
nocturne gate
i mean i have 85% flat crit in ma without buffs
gusty ice
unless I'm completely missing something
gusty ice
sorry... by "a lot" i meant frequently, not "a lot of combo points".
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
white basalt
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/area-52/brainblast got 50k residuum. should i cephalohide shoulders or gorak tul's mantle? thanks
dusk onyx
Guys, bote r3>clf r3!?
sharp lily
@white basalt Sim which would be a bigger upgrade for you and then gamble from there/
fiery hazel
is there a bug with font and using subt vs MA? When specced MA it drops my stealth but when in subt it doesn't?
rigid mango
@dusk onyx no, but you might need to change your shit around
Yes, with sub font doesn't break, ma it does
fiery hazel
in which way do we think its a bug?
rigid mango
It seems nearly intentional
fiery hazel
with MA or sub?
rigid mango
idk
vivid prism
How do you use coral correctly? I read then pin but wanted to make sure I understand it so use it with 1st vendetta let stacks build and hold 2nd vendetta until it gets to 20 stacks or just use it when vendetta is off cool down then rinse and repeat?
fiery hazel
ok, thanks Zine.
rigid mango
Yes, apply with first, consume on every vend after and reapply after
white basalt
with top gear, how do i sim azerite gear i dont have?
cold rampart
is ma stronger that sf or both same damage?
vivid prism
So Dont hold until 20 stacks then as I did some dummy test and vendetta would come off CD and stacks around 15 or so
rigid mango
@cold rampart What?
deft nymph
depends @cold rampart
cold rampart
@rigid mango master assassin or subterfuge
deft nymph
ss sims higher with my traits
rigid mango
Depends on your azerite
deft nymph
sometimes MA sims higher
cold rampart
st
deft nymph
wut
rigid mango
Single target
cold rampart
subterfuge
rigid mango
Ma is just a superior build atm
deft nymph
so the sim is lying when it says subt is better st for me eh
deft nymph
what traits are needed for MA
rigid mango
There are also very niche cases where sub>MA even without any SS
cold rampart
what traits are needed for subterfuge
deft nymph
i have 3 DD and 1 SS or NP available
rigid mango
You need SS for sub to be better
deft nymph
and it wants me to take the SS and subt
deft nymph
i guess maybe a lot of mastery swings toward subt
rigid mango
not really
deft nymph
well i have that and subt sims higher weird
deft nymph
i have 1 ss available yes, with 3 DD and the option for NP over SS
sim demands SS and subt instead of NP and MA
cold rampart
can i go 3 ss?
white basalt
if ur crazy
white basalt
i hate MA too, luckily my sim says go subt
cold rampart
everyone's sim says go subt
sudden trench
Based on your gear what the sim might take 1 ss and say to take subt. But you will still get more damage running the np over it because none of the fights are patchwork 100%
deft nymph
well the fight i'm caring about is ashvane currently
woeful minnow
oh my god
cold rampart
@deft nymph same
woeful minnow
this conversation is 
as hell
sudden trench
Have you not been reading the conversation lol, fk it I'm out! Run what feels good to you.
sudden trench
rigid mango
white basalt
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uSY7C38kcX6Yet5217Ubpr cant figure out how to sim gorak tul's mantle and cephalohide to see what would be the bigger upgrade
woeful minnow
use gear compare
cold rampart
top gear
white basalt
yea im dumb and cant figure out how to sim the gear i dont yet have, grab the item id from wowhead? insert where?
deft nymph
droptimizer, gear compare
rigid mango
Just go to gear compare
lik
Go there, and punch in the items you want to compare with
tacit plinth
boys I swear coral broke my sims, it has me at 1700 haste and 800 crit and still wants more mastery and not crit 
white basalt
ok i figured it out lol, thanks
sudden trench
Has you at 1700 haste, 800 crit and wants more mast? Makes perfect sense
desert vault
are the mechagon rings worth farming for?
tacit plinth
Almost all the logs I see anywhere near top 10 parses with similar set ups run at least 1k if not more crit though so it just seems strange
white basalt
cant add gear to top gear? only gear compare?
icy ember
hey are the AGI gems worth using?
rigid mango
Sim it.
sudden trench
Your ratio is prob skewed, mast will give you the most dps stat weight wise. The crit comes from coral.
tacit plinth
crit only comes from coral every 2 mins
that seems like a horrible reason to dump tons of crit
sudden trench
When you burst
tacit plinth
I mean ya sure , just seemed odd especailly considering I dont see any logs with similar stat lay outs
desert vault
how often can the mechagon rings proc? Like the If/then? Just once per target or something?
sudden trench
Most of our dmg is in that window, so ye you will have the crit when you need it
wide delta
does the item that u need for the raid essence drop every difficutly?
deft nymph
sort of
if you do the highest difficulty first it'll drop all the ones from the lower difficulties
wide delta
so max is 9 each ID?
so if I do Heroic it also does not drop anymore on normal right?
sharp lily
I cant get any Essence combo to sim higher than Lucid + World Vein right now 😛
rigid mango
There isn't one, afaik
But worldvein sims are super sim pad
Realistically you wont reach that
deft nymph
clf + lucid sims better for me
sharp lily
Mhmm not running world vein Lucid + Iris sims highest for me
deft nymph
plus worldvein is communism
rigid mango
If other shit sims lower
it's because your haste is pisslow thanks to that combo
Fix that, and it's fine
That's the issue so many, me included, had
deft nymph
sim had me regem everything haste with CLF lucid
it was full crit with lucid/wv or lucid/iris
high nacelle
same
sharp lily
I should probably just regem/enchant for haste and take CLD+Lucid
deft escarp
Hello fellow Rogues, should I gamble for Gorak Tuls, buying random HC m+ Item (430), currently I have 27k Residiuum, 6 shoulders = 3 trys?. Or Gamble next reset for 445 random shoulder? 1/6 chance . Difference between hc and mythic Gorak tul would be 400dps. Is the gamble worth it? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sV7BL9qEY57KjZCEUxrLJi
signal summit
I would gamble
placid mulch
Does anyone know if dribbling ink pod gets stacks from fan of knives?
deft nymph
ya
wintry mica
for queens court with at least one suffocation trait I assume subterfuge to try to get double empowered garrotes off would be better than master assassin?
rigid mango
DPS sub and SS will win out, yeah
wintry mica
does MA only start beating sub when you have no SS traits?
rigid mango
Yes
Even though for mythic court I think running MA with standard ST setup is better thanks to the strats in there
restive inlet
How do you boys open with condensed life force, azshara trinket and a second on use? I think I know the answer, just wanna make sure
rigid mango
CLF usage is in pins
restive inlet
oh shit, didn't notice ty
wintry mica
and for opening you should channel font before pull
wintry mica
I thought that used to be in pinned as well but not anymore
restive inlet
so you can stealøth
wintry mica
it doesnt unstealth you
restive inlet
oh, nice
wintry mica
so you just need to leave enough time to prepot after the channel if you are planning on doing one
red plaza
Seliathan did a pretty good explanation on one of his streams. Something like 10 seconds before pull you channel. Then do your opener like normal, except hold toxic blade for when your 2nd trinket is ready
wintry mica
I guess it depends on what your on use trink is though
restive inlet
that sounds like he used subterfuge? You surely would want TB for the MA
wintry mica
also I doubt any on use trinket buff would be worth missing the like 3k agi that font gives
red plaza
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/459087523 starts at about 5hr 10min mark
wintry mica
I'm not sure though, does the 4 second channel time of font give you a couple gcds of potential overlap with the trinket buffs?
wait im dumb i was thinking trink locket was 30 sec not 20 so you can double dip
quiet forge
Sorry to interfere but just a quick question.
Is there any situaltion that using Kidney Shot with Internal Bleeding talent results in higher DPS than normal rotation or any other better effect in raid environment?
wintry mica
I dont think so, anything you are going to be stunning in a raid youd probably get more bang for you buck using prey on the weak so everyone gets the 10% damage boost
just my thoughts though so take with a grain of salt
dense blaze
Does Blackout Barrel in Freehold only target rogues?
rigid mango
Are we talking font + coral or what
rigid mango
I'll do my copy paste if people need it again
restive inlet
I have a dumb 450 galecallers and azshara trinket
rigid mango
Should follow same laws as coral
restive inlet
I guess
rigid mango
When using font and coral, use font at 5 seconds on pulltimer and coral as soon as possible after that. At your next vendetta window, use font 14 seconds prior to casting vendetta, and coral 6 seconds into vendetta, meaning you get a 14 second window of both font and coral inside vendetta. Reapply coral as soon as you can after that.
There u go
restive inlet
Nice Zine, that makes sense. ty!
warm summit
i personally use that for pvp its a powerdot and a stun, for raid if you can stun something id assume you want the whole raids dmg to increase for 10% on that target... even if its just an add on orogoza
woven summit
The pocket-sized trinket can only be 400 ilvl right?
There's no other?
You increase the ilvl with the cards?
rigid mango
no, just shows fucked on logs
woven summit
I can build a 425 via the robot?
quiet forge
It increases with cards
woven summit
ah right
dark crag
How high was your envenom critchance today? Yes
woven summit
ok thanks
quiet forge
mine for example is 420
crimson trellis
Quick question guys, does it worth it to pooling energy prior using Toxic blade ? Or it doesn't matter ?
wintry mica
you want to use every GCD possible during toxic blade
crimson trellis
kk
rigid mango
You want 2 env minimum, 3 optimally within the window
sour wraith
So with MA is it always mut rup mut gar for opener or just with bote?
crimson trellis
gotcha, ty for info
wintry mica
I feel like 3 is only really possible if you have CP before toxic blade or you get a double muti crit right?
azure basalt
I'll just force out the last envenom regardless of CP if TB is about to end
rigid mango
3 is what you should be doing
wintry mica
I guess thats something I havent thought of yet, should you try to have 3-4 CP before you use toxic blade each time?
rigid mango
And no Zay, that's a dps loss
crimson trellis
mmhmm
rigid mango
The same finishing rules work within tb, 4+
royal lantern
using finishing moves at 3cp is never worth it
crimson trellis
kk
royal lantern
except some rupture situations because the stuff dies really fast etc...
azure basalt
oh interesting
royal lantern
^
crimson trellis
so a rupture with 3 cbp could worth it, to avoid debuff lost ?
wintry mica
I dont think it really matters if one gcd to cast muti will make your rupture fall off
royal lantern
like i said, on some SPECIFIC situations
rigid mango
It's worth to 3cp rup in very niche situations
azure basalt
neither does envenom though? its flat per CP like rupture
rigid mango
Still not worth it
royal lantern
envenom under 4cp is a huge waste of energy
crimson trellis
so aim for 4+ whenever possible
crimson trellis
kk
royal lantern
when something dies in like 10seconds anyway you can do a 3cp rupture
crimson trellis
With TB, 80% energy is enuf ?
wintry mica
so would ideal TB be going in with 3-4 CP and going tb, env, muti x2, env, muti x2, env?
royal lantern
yes
wintry mica
ty
dark crag
ideal would be tb env mut env mut env all crits
wintry mica
true lol but unrealistic
royal lantern
ideal you would do only crits the entire fight
dark crag
indeed
royal lantern
😄
crimson trellis
Blood of the enemy rank3 FTW
strange python
Is one Shrouded Suffocation enough for m+?
dark crag
and not like this
wintry mica
oof
royal lantern
and if you have multiple DD traits
wintry mica
more SS is better but one will help ur add damage a lot still
royal lantern
try too get your mutilate cast done during the envenom buff too force the double poison
subtle tundra
when doing m+ TTK is only good if you go poison bomb?
rigid mango
You never don't go poison bomb, so yeah I suppose?
tacit plinth
why would one matter for the other?
deft nymph
i think you only go poison bomb anyway no?
crimson trellis
i got DDx2 and SSx1, i wonder is MA is the way to go
royal lantern
wintry mica
I think crimson tempest only wins out with like sustained 10+ adds or something so not worth it
sudden trench
god the SS - MA discussion is nuts today...
royal lantern
crimson tempest is ''bad'' because echoing blades is so good
tacit plinth
wish I could get some EB SS pieces to mess around with
royal lantern
it was used in 8.0 in m+ sooo.....
woven summit
Is Iris minor better than resonanse because you need to move all the time and can't have 100% uptime on the shard?
Guess it's fight dependant, but what's your experience?
royal lantern
for low movment worldvein is actually good if other people also use it, yeha
about iris, i think right now almost everyone is using lucid minor soooo.....cant really say that?
quiet forge
Since when crimson tempest + exsang isnt good in m+? 😮
royal lantern
since the last 8 months or something lel
quiet forge
lol
rigid mango
^
quiet forge
guess ive been playing outlaw in m+ since then
rigid mango
EB just means CT isn't worth it unless possibly in high fort fh keys but I still can't recommend it just because seli used it
royal lantern
SELI USED IT SO ITS GOOD FOR MY +13
subtle tundra
Also should i use bote in m+?
royal lantern
(sorry)
rigid mango
Bote's good, aye
royal lantern
i personaly use bote for tyranical weeks
quiet forge
Bote?
royal lantern
blood
subtle tundra
blood of the enemy
subtle tundra
it aint worth it if you dont have r3
royal lantern
rank4 
but yeha, blood ONLY gets good at 3
strange python
mm so I got 3 SS for m+ with nothing personal and twist the knife, how does a regular aoe rotation look like for me?
cold cloud
The Queen's Court (m) Pogchamp
deft nymph
first beg the tank to never chain pull
strange python
lol
I'm guessing garrotes from stealth, 3 ruptures and fan of knives?
then envenom on main
rotund mural
dungeonslice tells me 1eb is stronger than 2 or 3.... you guys think it's alright ?
quiet forge
i dont really trust dungeonslice
im pretty sure its like 70% single target boss and 30% aoe trash
vocal kelp
Dungeonslice is not accurate for assassination
quiet forge
i do 3 sims, 1. for single target boss 4-5mins, 2. for trash 6 targets 40secs, 3. dungslice
vocal kelp
So would not use it to get what traits is Good etc
meager nebula
dungeon slice isn't that great for sin
rotund mural
so... what you think of 2ss, 1eb, 1dd, 1sob, 1ttk? xD
quiet forge
I feel like dungeon slice is good only for classes that have the same rotation / traits for aoe and st
vocal kelp
Decent
meager nebula
pretty much yeah
vocal kelp
Ofc DD and sob is trash
rotund mural
my only other option is 2ss, 2eb, 1ttk, 1sob..... but i would replace 445 shoulder with 420
vocal kelp
Get away those 2 and get 1 more of ttk and eb and you are fine
meager nebula
7 traits?
meager nebula
you can do a 6t 40s patchwerk sim to see if its better
vocal kelp
I would go with the 2/2/1/1
sacred current
hey everybody
meager nebula
dd doesn't really do much work in m+ so it would surprise me if it doesn't replace it
neat remnant
Can you grind the bote ranks by leveling in BGs?
rotund mural
ty all ^^
sacred current
is the standard raidbots api correct for us?
rotund mural
@quiet forge 2 would be the best... since a lot of ppl have a lot of aoe xD
quiet forge
true xd
rotund mural
@vocal kelp i can replace that sob with np... you think that's better?
quiet forge
np will help with bosses tho
vocal kelp
Since its tyrannical i guess i would go np
marble elm
anyone else roll gorak tul cephalohide back 2 back
sour wraith
So is the opener with MA mut rup mut gar only with bote, or even without?
jolly agate
I have a gorak tul 445, is blightborne useful in M+?
short token
when are people using condensed life-force in their opener?
sour wraith
before vendetta
vocal kelp
Not useless but eb/ss/ttk is better for m+
short token
@sour wraith ty
quiet forge
life-force is only good r3 right?
sour wraith
r2 isn't bad but r3 is when it gets really good
quiet forge
so basicaly lucid dream r3 is better than life r2?
iron heath
whats the quickest way to rank BOTE
vocal kelp
Mercenary bg/ brawls
iron heath
AIGHT ty
vestal wren
i would use a custom fight script instead of 40 sec x target sims.
f.ex. like the m+ estimate i did. If you want to only sim packs you can use this:
https://pastebin.com/uEMEWVy2
vestal wren
its based on kojijama's pack size evalation a while back
summer onyx
How are people using rank 3 guardian essence? Wcl shows people using it in a TB window, is that so it will be active for a bit of the next one?
vestal wren
so essentially:
koji did take the m+ routes and wrote down pack sizes,
made a version with/without trivial packs.
I took the frequencies of those and made a fight style using it as a base
added a 20% downtime (had 10% in first iteration but was told 20% is more realistic)
small island
is the inkpod trinket good without coral?
quiet forge
wow really nice @vestal wren thanks
vocal kelp
Decent, ofc it gains value with coral but its not bad without
vestal wren
so its a sim with 6 packs with variouse pack sizes
that have an impact depending on the probability to pull those (excluding trivial packs)
vernal walrus
how many stack of coral can i have on a target?
vestal wren
this version has a boss fight also: https://pastebin.com/UXKAbiX0
(so is a better estimate for overall dungeon dps)
icy ember
so why arent these default options on raidbots
vernal walrus
someone can explain me how to use Ashvane's Razor Coral properly¿?
vocal kelp
Pins @vernal walrus
civic palm
vernal walrus
i look pins, i dont understand, thats why i answer here
vocal kelp
Use with 1st vendetta, stack and then use during 2nd
icy ember
How to use Razer Coral trinket?
- For Assa, stack the crit conversion use with Vendetta. Coral also has a great synergy with the Dribbling Inkpod sub 30%.
vernal walrus
- For Assa, stack the crit conversion use with Vendetta. Coral also has a great synergy with the Dribbling Inkpod sub 30%.
thats what i see in pins, but what part of trinket i must use with vendetta? the crit or the dmg¿
icy ember
so that means we activate coral on vendetta for the first usage??
and then use it on the 2nd
oh thx for answering @vocal kelp
vernal walrus
@icy ember thats the point i cant understand
icy ember
idk i'll probably look at the sample log of how to use your abilities
lost tree
thought CLF will be more DPS gain https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/KPt5y9J49DgAPULwARCmw 
vestal wren
thats quite a nice gain
quasi pewter
also if you gem & enchant some haste it will most likely be more
red plaza
macro it to your vendetta broizer. the first use of coral in your opener will start generating the stacks. the 2nd use of vendetta will consume the stacks and give you crit buff
and then 20 seconds later when it's off CD use it again to start generating stacks
lost tree
thought so played with Iris Minor before so i could spare a bit ghaste will sim it i guess
vocal kelp
Your stats will change so better optimizing means more dps increase
lost tree
how many stacks do you guys have when coral is stacking and you comin to next Vendetta Phase? im always at like 10-15 at max
vernal walrus
@red plaza omg dude thx now i understand
icy ember
@red plaza ye thx
you should probably update the note to say what lig wrote
just sayin
red plaza
Although, you might want to get used to having it on a separate key bind if you do M+ and want to use the coral w/o vendetta
mint prairie
lost tree
@red plaza you actually use Coral in M+? which Key Level and how many stacks do you generate?
vocal kelp
2 min timer
quasi pewter
2 mins
switching targets doesnt matter
thats why its actually decent in m+ aswell
not insane but not bad either
does like 3,5-4% of my dps usually
sacred current
how many stacks do you get to on a boss typicallyu
dim sigil
How high can the coral trinket stack my dudes?
quasi pewter
hm idk dont really look at it
red plaza
@lost tree not really sure how good it is in M+ or if its worth at the 10-15 key range. But I'll usually put it up on a big target and will get maybe 4-5 stacks before it dies which will then trigger the crit buff without having to use it again
lost tree
@dim sigil 99 
dim sigil
for real
quasi pewter
i think i had 25-30 or so on tol dagor 18 earlier last boss
lost tree
next vendetta so 2 min after use and stacking round about around 10 stacks mostly more
quasi pewter
yes
quiet forge
Bingo
dim sigil
PogU
quasi pewter
and then again after that vendetta
dim sigil
OK
quasi pewter
and then again wiht 3rd
lost tree
@red plaza thanks didnt know it trigggers when something dies
CLF with haste enchants is bonkers https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gWdHXBiPWTfBEnW39rd6hZ
reef frigate
I'm changing from outlaw to assassin bu my simulation is saying that my gear with less haste is the best... Is that right? Like I have only 11% haste now
rigid mango
Are you running lucid major?
reef frigate
Minor, with blood of the enemy major
rigid mango
mint kindle
Any of you guys play with 2 usable trinkets? And how do you manage?
crystal barn
whats the best potion to use in raid for a sub+ss build? i see alot of people use unbridled fury
strange python
@mint kindle Yeah i play with azshara trinket and coral but kinda lost too about what use before what cause when u use azshara trinket u got 20sec before using coral
placid dawn
you use azshara trinket 5s before pull -> stealth -> pot
then pop coral when you can
for second vendetta onwards use azshara 14-10s before vendetta
then pop coral when you can
small island
use it when u can xd
placid dawn
for that you just use it whenever you don't have energy
"outside of lucid, tb and vendetta when you are under 80 energy and rupture lasts at least 4 secs" its on the pins of wow general
usually about 45s into the fight
depends on hero and stuff like that though
echo cargo
When using the Guardian essence, do we use it on CD, or wait for it to line up w/ Vendetta?
rigid mango
pins
echo cargo
Bless
weary tulip
Seen some Method bloke playing triple twist the knife is that better than stacking double dose
sacred current
@vapid elk any good auras for tracking the buff from gaurdian of azeroth
sand otter
went back to Sin, last nights raid all the way to ashzara i held my own at top 6 or so, im quite proud, simming at 27k, and maintaining 24k average, i have work to do but im getting there. i think.
sand otter
let me pop WoW open, run the sim and give you a link.
rigid mango
27k was semi optimised BoD sims,
sand otter
guess im just bad then
round harbor
Link a sim, I'll give it a glance
sand otter
running it now stand by one
near python
@weary tulip N, twist not better than dd, but not worth dropping ilvl for dd
sand otter
yeap i know those things
austere wadi
and using sub optimal enchants and gems
sand otter
spent all rerolls since the raid came open trying for new ones
i thought i was supposed to follow the sims enchants?
austere wadi
also not utilizing any of the new benthics
thats where most of your damage loss is.
sand otter
benthic gear is useless in M+
austere wadi
you are using old gems/enchants
remote saffron
i have choice between ttk and undulating tides, sim says tides but i've heard it's overestimated in sims. what should i take?
near python
ttk
austere wadi
Oh M+ lmao
remote saffron
other traits are 3NP and 2 DD
sand otter
?
austere wadi
go outlaw reee
near python
still ttk @remote saffron
remote saffron
all righty, thanks!
austere wadi
Gotcha well with the EB nerfs its kinda idk
I think people are stacking SS these days I'm not your guy for M+ sorry
sand otter
guild doesnt do mythic raiding, we raid 4 hours a week. im just trying to keep up with the warlocks and mages, while working 80 hours a week. its very hard
near python
mix between TTK, SS & EB depending on what kind of damage your group needs for m+, stack crit & mastery
near python
455
desert vault
heh, of course of all the 455s to get from Freehold ... vers/mast gloves are what I get
near python
yes neck level, can go to level 70, 473
desert vault
cloak, legs, boots, ring, really anything but hands 😃
i guess wrists are kind of lousy stats too
cold rampart
stronger than this https://gyazo.com/a8e4752bae363c9b8126e6c2e68cefbd
15 ilvl difference
vocal kelp
Prolly cus of OP and TC
cold rampart
tc still strong?
vocal kelp
Yup
Tc is decent
Just like ttk is decent
But overwhelming power is by far the best trait in tjat category
Which makes up for the ilvl difference
drifting cloud
why do you even use tc when the helm has np
umbral fiber
vocal kelp
NP loses some value when it has multiple stacks, first stack is a big dps gain and TC might catch up if he has more than 1 np trait
cold rampart
i head ppl saying 1 np is enough
drifting cloud
maybe run a sim instead
tc is a mediocre trait
because agi doesnt really scale that much
so it was alot better when we were 400 ilvl start of bod than we are now
rigid mango
Even past 1, NP is still an insanely good trait.
faint harness
you can get more than 1 NP for sure, the first is just the biggest dps increase
vocal kelp
Np is indeed a really Good trait and i doubt that tc is Close even woth multiple np traits.
quiet forge
guys how do i sim wth custom encounter?
rigid mango
Wdym
quiet forge
fuu linked his custom settings for simming
balmy quest
What is more important, applying my razor coral debuff again after I hit a vendetta, or using my cyclotronic trinket to get that on cooldown? I'd assume Razor Coral to get it stacking but that's just my feelycrafting
vocal kelp
Never use mecha trink during vendetta
balmy quest
Thank you @rigid mango ❤
rigid mango
glgl
quiet forge
mechanist's garden*
balmy quest
I know it would proc close to on cooldown with our normal rotation but if you were past the ICD during a time when you were energy starved would abilities like kick help proc that ring?
rigid mango
Realistically you should be proccing it more or less on cd
balmy quest
Or is it just damaging abilities, I assume not since it just says 3 different spells
rigid mango
But yeah, using kick or other shit could help
arctic walrus
Okay if it was so simple I wouldn't have asked smhh
I can do mut gar env
and it don't proc
sometimes it sits off cd for a few seconds
and i have to throw in a kick/tricks to proc it
balmy quest
tricks wouldn't work though since it isn't applied to that target?
arctic walrus
Oh you'd think that wouldn't you Tek :^)
balmy quest
I don't get this game some times lol
rigid mango
So literally anything
balmy quest
What if you just applied poisons to multiple targets would that proc it?
arctic walrus
no sir not poison application
balmy quest
because it says "same target"
OH
as in
putting poison on your weapons
got you
not poisoning a target
new meta re-apply weapon poisons during fight to proc your rings 😂
fallow otter
using heroic zaq helm over mythic first boss feels weird but OP is OP
strange python
I don't understand... when i sim it's tells me to remove azshara trinket i got the 415 one and put inkpot 435
rigid mango
link it
arctic walrus
it is dw
rigid mango
Not that that makes ANY more sense
arctic walrus
strange python
rigid mango
Yeah, with coral it's probably worth taking inkpod>415 font
The issue with font + coral is that it is a dps loss b ecause of two on uses
leaden garden
Hey guys, is asa ok compared to outlaw for m+? with 3x EB and a few SS traits
rigid mango
But the trinkets are so broken
So it makes up for it generally
but since your font is only 415, it'll be worse
430 + 430 will be better than either + inkpod, probs
strange python
So now i have to change the way i use coral with dat inkpod or ?
rigid mango
You use it as the boss nears 30% hp
to maximise odds of it critting
Sorry, you use coral near 30% to maximise odds of inkpod critting
@leaden garden outlaw is flatout an insane spec atm, I think sin is in a really good spot atm but don't know if it can go toe to toe with outlaw
has its niches and I've had no issue with it, but outlaw is just insanely good atm
strange python
Ok thanks im gonna try to time that with the coral next time
leaden garden
I see Zine, thanks for the input. How about raids, outlaw good there aswell?
rigid mango
Outlaw only really has orgozoa that it's better on
I think sin is better in every other encounter
leaden garden
But outlaw as a specc, is it generaly bad for raiding?
arctic walrus
rigid mango
Not really, it wont matter for you whether you play outlaw or sin in raid, doesn't matter past maybe top 50 world
arctic walrus
I have a new favorite @rigid mango
rigid mango
@leaden garden I think either spec is generally recommendable, outlaw is probs the best m+ spec in the game atm, sin not super far behind, and sin is probably the best melee raid spec that doesn't give some sort of raidwide buff, but realistically outlaw isn't far off.
Just stop it Vel
That shit is so scuffed it's insane
arctic walrus
If only I had the behind the target one
strange python
for opener with font when do you start channeling 6seconds?
rigid mango
I think 5-6 seconds is a safe bet, yeah
strange python
and 10 seconds before vendetta?
rigid mango
14 seconds before as earliest, 4 seconds before as latest
Anywhere within that area works
strange python
cool, thank you!
rigid mango
glgl
tropic ocean
calm bison
would it be worth to use inkpod for progression on zaq/azshara mythic if going to a 445 inkpod over my heroic trinkets (430 font/430 coral w/ socket) is a 1k dps loss or should i tell my RL to shove it?
tribal marlin
Hey do you guys know a weak aura or mod for details that display boss time to kill ?
arctic walrus
@rigid mango idk what to use for pfp btw
rigid mango
Something so people don't think you're some dumbass with your dumbass questions 
white basalt
after swapping to r3 condensed life force major, sim is telling me gem all haste. it makes sense and feels right, but is it worth it?
rigid mango
Yes.
river zinc
what is the correct way to use Azshara font of power?
arctic walrus
I fit right in this way (:
rigid mango
Vel get someting that flexxes that ur in CC
white basalt
i meant for minor
white basalt
yeah
i am, brain fart
basically what i was asking is if there is a solid risk of me having to regem anytime soon for raid
rigid mango
Probably not.
faint harness
Gems are dirt cheap rn
river zinc
gems are cheap...like so cheap
fallow otter
want weapon for gorgonzola + chest ofc
the dagger mission is coomplete
well, we all need a fat proc
but priorities
rigid mango
Fantastically #wow-general convo
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
midnight flower
He just explained why he’s rolling for sin, stop being a clown
rigid mango
Starting the entire convo off about forgetting seals wasn't sin related, talking about outlaw weapon wasn't sin related
I don't see what you're on about.
drifting cloud
maybe you should open the dungeon journal and try to figure out why he rolls
rigid mango
more like #off-topic , but you get it.
midnight flower
You up tight humans are exhausting
drifting cloud
its a boss with a loot table of 4 items, 2 are benthic slots its not that hard t o figure out
rigid mango
People who can't type in the right channel and get flustered about being corrected 
midnight flower
Bless your souls
night summit
how good is inkpod for assassinatino
arctic walrus
The longer the fight the better it'll probably be
arctic walrus
rigid mango
idk, I did a sim told me to put crit in a socket, replace my ring enchant to crit and my 120 agi to crit
Did the first two, just to see diff between 120 agi and 50 crit, now it's a dps loss
rigid mango
white basalt
ill take my lap
karmic kite
is there a tl;dr for font and coral usage
rigid mango
The combination of the two?
karmic kite
yeah
rigid mango
When using font and coral, use font at 5 seconds on pulltimer and coral as soon as possible after that. At your next vendetta window, use font 14 seconds prior to casting vendetta, and coral 6 seconds into vendetta, meaning you get a 14 second window of both font and coral inside vendetta. Reapply coral as soon as you can after that.
karmic kite
tyty
balmy quest
Is the 14 seconds specifically to make sure your TB window inside vendetta lines up with both the font + coral overlap? Because there wouldn't be a 14 second window of font and coral but only 10 (font would expire 6 seconds before vendetta ends)
meaning you stack vendetta + font + coral + TB deeps?
rigid mango
I'm not exactly sure which is more correct
Since the issue with either is that it's not simmable
thanks to APL limitations
It's either like that, or popping coral 10 sec in instead of 6
meaning you get the 5 sec of your tb inside of coral
but afaik that wasn't a large gain through other sims
balmy quest
I think it is probably just that delaying your TB is a bigger DPS loss than losing 6 seconds of font inside of vendetta
rigid mango
So I assumed the way I phrased it was more correct
balmy quest
so to line your TB window up with the font + coral overlap, the 14 seconds is where it lines up best
rigid mango
I don't think it's a big gain though, that's the thing
balmy quest
yeah this is hyper-minmaxing
rigid mango
but like I said, I'm unsure what is the more correct version
I've thought of that too, but because of some fault in the APL or someshit (that makes my head hurt) it's not testable
balmy quest
Using font 10sec before instead of 14 isn't going to be the difference between you killing or not killing a progression boss 😂
rigid mango
So, I'll default to that which is pretty simple to understand and the gain/loss doing it diff should be minimal
I mean, there's literally no loss to using at 14 pre
since the trinket CD goes off at 14 pre
but the actual 30 sec of font starts AFTER the 4 sec cast
rigid mango
Inititally it was around using it at 10
but I thought of it and tested it in game to see how it worked
and it worked like I just said, so I just auto assumed 14 sec of coral within font + vend > 10 sec of it
cerulean kernel
5sec font would give you 1sec to stealth and prepot. That’s some anxiety
balmy quest
yeah I forgot about the channel I'm a derp
rigid mango
but only having 10 sec means you also get your next tb after the tb used with vend + vanish with an included 5 sec of coral crit
which might(?) be worth it
Like I said, unsure, but yeah perma minmax
balmy quest
does the trinket lockout start when the channel starts or finishes? I assume from that it locks out at the start of the channel
vapid scarab
if I get another fucking toxic blade parried on pull i swear to fucking god I quit this class
vapid scarab
it's literally one of the most tilting things I've ever played against
that and MA window being so tight, tank moves an inch and I miss a GCD and it's gg
rigid mango
It's nice wdym 
severe bough
👀
New guild, Ashvane almost dead
Eng maxxed, LW soon to be maxed
feels good to be alive
river zinc
do you guys run CLF as major or minor?
rigid mango
Major
river zinc
so I guess where i'm having some issues then is the amount of GCD's on pull.
At what point do I use the active ?
the end of my TB window?
idk..I checked pins..only found for ashvane coral
arctic walrus
you scrolled too far down
river zinc
thank you re checking
honest needle
if i dont run ss trait for behemoth boss do u guys dot both puffer fish n boss from the start or just boss then get buff
whats best way 2 parse on that fight without ss
meager nebula
MA doesn't affect cyclotronic blast
opal meadow
oh.. sadness
meager nebula
only affects rogue abilities
civic palm
It does.
meager nebula
it does?
meager nebula
i know the wording is funky on either the buff or the talent
civic palm
The talent wording is whack.
meager nebula
ye.
honest needle
when is best time to use razor coral on opener for assasination
I dont see when to exactly use it in pins
should i macro it with my first vendetta ?
rigid mango
Literally whenever.
honest needle
is it good to macro it with vendetta ?
or use it before or after
like right before or after on opener
honest needle
boots i think r better right
prisma cypress
i have the boots and bracers done, just wondering if i need to do the gloves too
lost horizon
in reality you don't get that very often
but the lowest i've personally seen was 0.6%
average is still like ~1%
boots are stronger and consistent yeah
honest needle
any tips on razor coral ? for opener ?