Noted
#assassination
cerulean walrus
rigid mango
@strange python I'd say outlaw is easy to play, easy to gear
Sin is easy to play, hard to master, and a pain to gear
Don't wrists do more?
arctic walrus
Instead of hating on benthic you could've been farming
marble elm
Pretty sure it’s bracers
rigid mango
and fuck that amirite
nimble tartan
Bro sin is just garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3
arctic walrus
eh idk
arctic walrus
Were limit/method rogues going DD on zaqul, haven't checked
rigid mango
I don't see what else
cerulean walrus
Yes
rigid mango
rest is just pad I think
arctic walrus
Good court made me wanna kms with subt
nimble tartan
Subterfuge 😫
turbid osprey
is it worth trying to hold vanish with MA for when inkpod will go off
or does it not affect that
royal lantern
MA only is for rogue stuff
agile tulip
top gear is telling me to enchant/gem mastery for ST, isn't haste supposed to be better? I even have low haste
patent leaf
depends on essence @agile tulip
turbid osprey
using memory atm
royal lantern
if you check your statweight, you should see that all stats are probably extremly close too eachother too @agile tulip
agile tulip
I keep forgetting about essences
nimble tartan
MA doesn’t increase crit chance of inkpod?
agile tulip
ya they're like super close when I do stat weights, but I'm always taking stat weights with a grain of salt
nimble tartan
😮
cerulean walrus
It’s different than legion shoulders
Which DID affect everything
MA only affects class specific things
cerulean walrus
That’s fair
agile tulip
how much do you guys sim ST? I'm simming 35.9k @ 427.9ilvl with 4 sockets
seeing vel's sim above makes me cry
nimble tartan
44k
turbid osprey
ooft
agile tulip
wtf I'm simming garbage
nimble tartan
Look me up nightx on thrall
brave fable
30 at 420.. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cWorCCNUQEGa93xVXZL2jW <- what should I focus on first to improve it? Az traits? Neck level? Higher ilvl? Something else?
agile tulip
I've got no benthic items, no way they're like 15% though
rigid mango
Benthic is a lot.
nimble tartan
I lied I’m not nightx
turbid osprey
I'm 3x DD, 1 NP, 1 undulating 1 treacherous atm
though i think i need to get rid of undulating, feels like bait
lost horizon
@agile tulip benthic pieces are pretty nuts dude
ripe nimbus
We got 450 boe leather wrists on trash last night and that shit simmed 600 DPS less then 425 benthic wrists
summer marten
@agile tulip I have all 4, sim 35.7k at 420ilvl, they are quite good, along with sockets... it piles up
ripe nimbus
I still feel like blizzard will nerf them probably after world first raid is done because it's actually kinda dumb and goes against everything they said about seeing a higher ilvl and knowing it's an upgrade
lost horizon
disabling their effects drops my DPS by ~3k
but they're still 415-425 socketed which alone is gonna beat most 430 unsocketed
tropic ocean
Imagine them nerfing em
After everyone grinded the fk out
I will personally shit on ions door if they nerf
ripe nimbus
Meh I want them nerfed
And I have them all
It's suppose to be catch up gear not BiS better then mythic raiding gear
lost horizon
similar boat, though i think they should have nerfed them long before everyone grinded them out
all the benthic gear + crucible legs being insane doesn't leave a ton of room for upgrades
ripe nimbus
Not even just Better then mythic raiding gear better then 455 socket raiding gear lol
tropic ocean
yeah but you need to balance your stuff before people spend hours grinding that shit
lost horizon
i like the idea of benthic pieces but having them BoA as well is terrible
people without capable alts have it so much worse
tropic ocean
sometimes I am really baffled how trash their testing is on multi billion dollar company
fallow estuary
can i trade a 430 fist weapon if i own a 430 dagger?
royal lantern
@subtle kiln somone bought my 430 boe wrist yesterday for ~70k 🤷
lost horizon
i mean with yikes gear it's gonna struggle to do some of the quests efficiently
lost horizon
interesting
none of my 120s were that far behind but someone told me they struggled on their low geared alt
rich raft
Mi syms, put mastery and versa on top :S, should i change all mi gems, enchants?
tropic ocean
Sim topgear
ripe nimbus
I just bought all the boe gear from the AH for my alt the 370 stuff and blasted
summer marten
if you change it will mostly likely flip them, so top gear is best, then it finds best combination of them
lost horizon
be mindful though that if you're using lucid major (but will eventually swap to life force at r3) your weights may change
placid dawn
you could have done the nazjatar wqs and buy benthic for 385
tropic ocean
this what this convo is all about
lost horizon
that's literally all alts are rn
manapearl farms
it's depressing LOL
i can't even imagine if i wanted to swap mains rn
stuck knoll
Move the benthic talk to #wow-general
urban junco
lost horizon
i actually really like how BotE plays
grinding it early w/guildies made it way less painful
lost horizon
no point now yeah
placid dawn
maybe ill get it for next tier :v
lost horizon
still hoping they nerf life force though tbh
shy dust
itd be interesting if they nerf it
rigid mango
50 dps up from blood + lucid
proud prawn
life force + lucid, bote + lucid, and lucid + worldvein are all essentially even for me
rigid mango
Lucid WV was top, by far
but since it's not a realistic sim for a lot of scenarios I don't include it
deft nymph
i thought i'd read that you use lucid toward the end of vendetta to get more gcds into vendetta
but looking at the sim ability log it's not using lucid until a minute after the pull
bold folio
Sorry for disrupting but I am really getting mad rn: Does Ashvane Trinket macroed with Garrote (/cast Garrote, /use 13) cancel Subterfuge after opening with said macro, or is it just for me? ._.
sweet heart
why would that macro cancel subterfuge
severe bough
@deft nymph waat
When i used lucid major, i used it like 5-10 secs before vendetta ended
deft nymph
yeah that's what i normally do
severe bough
not sure if that was optimal or not but i did good dmg
deft nymph
but the lust thing makes sense
deft nymph
yeah i slacked on getting bote r3
deft nymph
i'll have the raid essence r3 before i finish that
wraith heart
When do you guys use cyclonic blast?
placid dawn
is cd of rank 3 raid essence 2 min? or sitll 3?
bold folio
tpos I was wondering the same, try it :D
deft nymph
i use cyclo when i get energy starved after vendetta @wraith heart
outer venture
quick question... for which azerite piece should you gamble? What is the most useless slot you get from the new raid?
rigid mango
Depends on what you're wearing @outer venture
severe bough
on herodamage and bloodmallet
rigid mango
You can do a droptimizer sim on raidbots
severe bough
maybe the APL on using blood can be improved?
wraith heart
Cool and I know the coral should be matched with vendetta but during opener u get very little boost from it do u let it sit till second?
lost sentinel
is phial of arcane tempest any good for M+? deals aoe ticking damage that accellerates fo r 20 sec
rigid mango
What do u want on cd?
severe bough
if you can line it with TB, Vanish, Vendetta it gets better
severe bough
if i knew how to tinker with that
rigid mango
You sync it w vend every time
severe bough
i'll check which yields more results
rigid mango
It's correct.
rigid mango
You still lose out afaik
severe bough
Oh, interesting
rigid mango
Like
severe bough
well, i suppose i can always line it up with vanish /vendetta
severe bough
Oh, for sure
rigid mango
Hm?
severe bough
like, use that on the 3 sec period
rigid mango
Wdym
severe bough
you get 50% more chance of crit right?
stark oxide
BOTE doesn't provide much on its own, but giving yourself 25% crit chance and damage during your 30% damage window that also provides additional energy and vanish...its just too good to not sync it.
severe bough
i'll do that, i suppose
deft nymph
i wonder if it's worth melding for cyclo
rigid mango
Why?
ripe nimbus
Hey I channel font before vendetta tho
stark oxide
MA doesn't affect cyclo
rigid mango
^
severe bough
does MA affect bote? i havent really checked
rigid mango
MA gives your rogue abilities crit chance
rigid mango
Not just a flat added 50% crit
severe bough
cerulean walrus
We seriously need to pin a separate message for that
rigid mango
You can check destealthing
deft nymph
OT but is that also the case for outlaw crit buff?
cerulean walrus
It’s been asked like 4 times today
severe bough
I mean, probably, the tooltip is very misleading
or maybe im a mongoloid
either or
thing is, i did not know
severe bough
just read it, it says "your critical strike chance", so yeah it's very easy to think that stuff like trinkets or essences could work
rigid mango
For sure.
deft nymph
lol i've been thinking meme beam + cyclo with outlaw crit buff was something cool all this time too
kek
i guess we can't all be shadowpriests
pseudo hamlet
If my gear sims higher with gear that doesn't have SS - does that mean I should go Master Assasin instead of Subterfuge? Just wondering.
pseudo hamlet
(my gear without SS is simming higher with the subterfuge talent btw - compared to the gear without SS I meant lol)
Ok.
rigid mango
Should be very eaasily simmable too
deft nymph
oh i get it
pseudo hamlet
Sorry I didn't explain myself properly, lol.
steep lagoon
What'd you say are the priorities of the bentic gear? Having 3 or 2 at high ilevel? I was stupid and spent 350 pearls on the wrong wrists at the start.. So got 420 socket taken damage-deal damage wrists and the boots socket 420 atm and 100 pearls.. Upgrade boots?
bold hearth
sim it
steep lagoon
Oh, thought they were maybe the best
Ait, thx
Getting the correct wrists maybe then
sweet heart
spent almost 500 pearls on boots/wrists .. never got a socket. #rngKing
steep lagoon
Daym
bold hearth
Should sim at what ilvl the better wrists become better than your current ones
steep lagoon
@bold hearth kk, thx
@sweet heart meanwhile guildie of mine got all 3 with socket of mobs lol.. Haven't spent a dime
bold hearth
Like if the better wrists are only a dps increase at the same ilvl i'd probably just upgrade the boots
sweet heart
😐
stark oxide
Spend mains pearls upgrading pieces, use alts to funnel pieces to your main for gambling. Bring up all pieces evenly.
Thats the go-to generic strat.
covert sedge
the crit damage doesn't scale with ilvl for benthic boots right? So it'd be wiser to upgrade bracers/belt/gloves first since their effects scale up?
bold hearth
Yes
civic palm
No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. Yes Yes Yes Yes No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes.
deft nymph
it's so cheap to upgrade any of em until the end tho
civic palm
I'd probably get them to 415 at least.
deft nymph
i'm just gonna do 420->425 last on the boots
civic palm
There is a close margin where raid boots will be better if you don't spend a little to upgrade them.
covert sedge
makes sense, thanks guys
deft nymph
now that i've got 3 good benthic pieces i'm fully expecting 455 boots in cache tomorrow
and 455 bracers/belt shortly after
ripe nimbus
Wouldn't matter the benthic stuff is still better xD
sweet heart
is benthic better even without a socket?
id assume a socket isnt changing that much ..
placid dawn
you can sim it
meager nebula
the socket makes it much better
arctic walrus
socket actually changes everything
ripe nimbus
I mean boots were still better then 450 boots with out socket for me but should prob still sim
ripe nimbus
What do u mean u have 5 levels to go
unreal perch
I mean outside of the raid without a socket it's just... any other piece of gear
Now get 5 more levels vel lol
glad horizon
ideal trait and essence set up for Assa m+?
arctic walrus
Screw that, they'll come passively
glad horizon
ik Ss and Eb best 2
unreal perch
Iris major lucid minor I believe
severe perch
Did Ashvane's Razor coral get nerfed or changed these alst few days?
drowsy cipher
is it right for my sim to be showing blood as my major higher than lucid both level 2
unreal perch
It shouldn't have been nerfed, no
strange python
Hey there, I have been lurking for a long long time but I did have a question. Why do so many of the ass. rogues that are ranked high on the logs avoid versatility like the plague? I check them out like on raid bots and things like that and they seem from simming to benefit from versatility. Obviously its not a great stat as haste helps with the regen and crit helps with the extra combos and mastery is beautiful for our poisons. Anyhow just something I have been curious about for a while.
nimble tartan
@arctic walrus that’s not 65 brother
bold hearth
get back to farming honor @nimble tartan
cobalt pelican
get at least 70 before azshara prog
or weak
i don't think anyone specifically avoids vers it's just generally been the worst stat by far until recently where it's still 'usually' the worst but by a much smaller margin
nimble tartan
Stibly....I got r3 blood already
cobalt pelican
and it's only playable now because of the amount of random shit that scales with it
get RANK 4
nimble tartan
Srry I’m not a role player
bold hearth
get back to farming islands then
cobalt pelican
you don't wanna look fly while doing HUEG damage?
nimble tartan
I don’t do damage
cobalt pelican
unlucky
bold hearth
rktm brings the dammies, omr brings the looks
stable yarrow
bully
bold hearth
what are those sockets
nimble tartan
Dam u look cute in that pic
stable yarrow
hellll yeahh
bold hearth
also it's a 9 parse thank you
thorn tinsel
what are thoughts about lucid r3 vs BoTE r2, sims have them relatively even for me but im seeing a lot more parses with Blood major
placid dawn
bote r2 is easier to play and frontloads damage on your cd window
with lucid rank 3 you need some solid uptime or you waste the essence
balmy quest
Run lucid 3 until you get blood 3. Blood 2 is meh.
turbid zealot
is the aqueous reliquary 1 difficulty only?
unreal perch
Reliquary are all difficulties
But it's a count. If you do mythic you wont get from heroic or normal, they were mixed in with the mythic reward
turbid zealot
do all difficulites drop same amount?
drifting cloud
no
unreal perch
You just wanted the highest difficulty you can
tepid ridge
what's the "best" trinket combination we could get atm? in ST Coral + Azshara or double use is shit?
turbid zealot
whats the amount each on drops then
unreal perch
Coral azshara in theory
tepid ridge
I mean at same ilvl
fleet whale
double use isn't always bad it's just something else you have pay attention to
rigid mango
I don't think most 2 on use are even thought as to be good
subtle tundra
how do people sim 40k+? im 428 ilvl and i sim 37,8k or something
unreal perch
Again, in theory coral + ashvane
rigid mango
Link your sims @subtle tundra And I can tell you why
subtle tundra
ok then just a heads up im not playing MA + bote
rigid mango
not playing MA is weird, bote isn't needed
unreal perch
A good main hand goes a long way
rigid mango
nearly entirely certain you need MA.
unreal perch
MA can be better without bote ya. Mine is
wild stone
Hey guys, what are some ideal trait setups for M+?
wild stone
Thanks much
zenith gust
if you have 2 rogues, can u stun the add in azshare 2 times with 2 rogues?
warm mulch
no it's immune to all forms of CC after it's been CC'd once
fleet whale
you only get one cc on it
rigid mango
Well, before it worked like
zenith gust
i heard last week that stun got loicked to 1 stun ability, but could do more than one if the same ability
ok
zenith gust
ok
rigid mango
I heard the exact same thing, but we tried it and it didn't work
fleet whale
yeah, our pally would hammer it and after it ran out KS wasn't working
warm mulch
We did azshara yesterday, and after our warrior charged our pala couldn't HoJ it anymore
rigid mango
I mean not like that
it was more like
it had to be the exact same ability
so if first stun is kidney, had to be kidney again
subtle tundra
i cant do anything about that since if they dont drop i cant get them again until next week
rigid mango
what?
drifting cloud
you can get uunat trinket
subtle tundra
my guild doesnt do cos...
fleet whale
i wish my guild would run CoS still lol
drifting cloud
lol its puggable
subtle tundra
don't have aotc nobody will take me
drifting cloud
who the hell is going to ask aotc for 430 rogue
drifting cloud
you dont have benthic, your sim is even inflated
subtle tundra
also can't find any groups either
drifting cloud
since youre never gonna have 100% uptime on wv2
rigid mango
Do you not have cyclotronic?
drifting cloud
atleast not this week
subtle tundra
i have it, is it good? i find it hard to use it because of the long burst
drifting cloud
and yeah youre revered with rustbolt
probably 1k better than the 400 plumage
if not even more
rigid mango
subtle tundra
thanks
fleet whale
i wish i had 430 daggers... stuck with poverty 415s atm. At least the first boss drops a dagger though, so it shouldn't be too hard to get them
subtle tundra
then ill need to learn to play with MA
stark oxide
It's not hard, the only thing that changes is your opener (and only slightly) and how you vanish (again just slightly)
Instead of double garrote out of stealth its double mut
tepid ridge
we don't delay 1st vendetta to build coral stack right?
cerulean walrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
subtle tundra
with ma when do i vanish?
stark oxide
you vanish with vendetta
and typically use env > mut >env
if the mut doesnt crit double env
and the opener is either mut rup mut, or mut mut rup, depending on crit
my sim sometimes uses vanish > tb env mut as well in the opener
so honestly bottom line is it probably doesn't matter a lot, as long as your vanish uses those 3 abilities
celest swan
anyone has a good Mechagon ringcomparison sim?
drifting cloud
they got nerfed, theyre pretty bad baseline now
junior coral
Anyone else having trouble pre potting with the new pots in stealth? I am getting broken out upon use. Wondering if anyone knows if this is working as intended
stark oxide
it was fixed, I haven't had problems since then
rigid mango
@drifting cloud they got nerfed?
drifting cloud
yeah from their ptr versions
drifting cloud
when I simmed them atleast they werent even an upgrade
and my rings are pretty mediocre
stark oxide
I mean a free damage effect is a free damage effect
drifting cloud
well its on 415 rings
and you need 2
thats why I said baseline theyre nothing special
stark oxide
I'd imagine a titanforge of the best ring combos will be BiS
rigid mango
ah
stark oxide
that's the meta right now
rigid mango
i c i c
stark oxide
just get item effects on every slot
stark oxide
But yeah getting the titanforges/sockets is the issue
rigid mango
sockets are so much better
stark oxide
right
Either way I don't think it's much of a viable thought until we can do mecha m+ to farm good versions
rigid mango
I mean seeing as how they have baseline effects they might be decent still
with sockets
stark oxide
yeah agreed
that was my initial point, but I don't think they'll be quite benthic gear tier
and getting socketed versions of the right rings with a weekly lockout is yuck
rich raft
!bis
gray citrus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/45H9V3rPsYKe5caqkrG8Dq so close to 40k 😭
lost sentinel
1 piece of gear upgraded and I am back to subterfuge + 1SS lol
double DD + TB
That's a good thing tho, cause I prefer subt over MA
unreal perch
I love how everyone makes it sound like there's some massive difference lol
lost sentinel
weird, I ran another sim and it suggested gear that wasn't even highlighted
cobalt pelican
it's the ghosts
unreal perch
I mean like, they make it sound like it makes some huge gameplay difference
lost sentinel
I prefer subterfuge... to me it is a difference enough /shrug
unreal perch
I mean that's fine lol
rotund mural
that's actually a good thing, to choose a different talent for once, play with what you want
cobalt pelican
it changes like two globals
rotund mural
if maybe Nightstalker, Blindside, Venom Rush could see the light... almost forgot about them
lost sentinel
Well as NE I get use out of shadowmeld too 😃
subtle tundra
played around a bit with MA and i found myself doing mut rup mut ( or double mut rup) garotte vendetta tb vanish and depening on the amount of combo points mut env mut/ env mut
is that correct?
elfin valley
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
night summit
best potion currently?
rotund mural
how do some ppl sim 39k at 423ilvl, i cant get past 30k xD
and using identical things almost
cobalt pelican
'almost'
simple meteor
change pot and wep matters alot aswell if you have low ilvl
rotund mural
yeah almost being not having azshara trinket for example
cobalt pelican
and what do you mean why is it applying bleeds
applying bleeds doesn't stop during vendetta
untold current
Anyone going for the benthic gloves that deal drops of frost dmg?
subtle tundra
not really
cobalt pelican
you go into vendetta when it comes off cooldown, bleed management does not change
simple meteor
oky thanks
cobalt pelican
if you're certain on your fightlength
and know you won't miss a cast by waiting
it's probably like a
0.01% gain
so feel free, i guess?
unreal perch
also ilvl means a lot less if your main hand isn't one of the high iLvls
rotund mural
410 daggers since feb 2019, so unlucky
simple meteor
just got my 430 today after 30 underrot clears you will get it keep trying
rotund mural
i did 31 underrots
tropic ocean
Sockets and benthic
simple meteor
i love underrot this week only dungeon to do so ez
unreal perch
410 dagger immediately screams "Not almost identical" lol
rotund mural
this guy xD
unreal perch
lol sorry I don't mean that to sound rude
rotund mural
it's fine hehe
unreal perch
just meant 410 compared to 420+ is a big difference
subtle tundra
big daggers important
subtle tundra
atal underrot both easy
rotund mural
yeah gotta keep spamming
arctic walrus
inkpod or cyclo for zaqul 🤔
subtle tundra
freehold even for the trinket if you want
simple meteor
445 dagger big dick
rotund mural
oh yeah this guy got 445 damn
unreal perch
ya there's a huge difference between iLvl and having the right stats, trinkets, traits, essences, sockets
simple meteor
so to replace cyclone trinket you need a 445 trinket pff
rotund mural
maybe that's why he's siming 12k more than me, since we both have same trinkets and traits
unreal perch
I got a new azerite piece of the same iLvl and shot up like 1k dps
real bay
gimme your trinkets
simple meteor
gimmie gimiie
neon sedge
why are the benthic gauntlets not on the list
subtle tundra
seeing these big sims tilts me
real bay
hc Azshara gloves are ok
rotund mural
@subtle tundra same xD
arctic walrus
Could change my sims to break 43k but meh it's only like 50 increase
simple meteor
force multiplier doesnt sim better?
scarlet sequoia
cos legs are just to pad on sims i guess
unreal perch
force multiplier should be bis
scarlet sequoia
nobody actually uses them over lw
unreal perch
only one though
scarlet sequoia
do they though
simple meteor
you already know
scarlet sequoia
ok u are correct @drifting cloud they sim 300 lower than 440 crafted for me at least
cobalt pelican
the fuck do i even use a 430 ilvl upgrade pvp token on
i was gonna do the helm cause it's zaqul helm basically but i get goggles on weds
scarlet sequoia
save it for another 3 weeks then u get 430 chest from cap 😄
thats what im doing with my 445 one
cobalt pelican
3 weeks is a real long time
arctic walrus
what gear u got fairy
scarlet sequoia
yeah i guess for 430 it is
cobalt pelican
a bunch of useless garbo
scarlet sequoia
but i get bis azerite chest so worth for me
cobalt pelican
i am haste player now : )
yea i need a warlords trophy
that's what i did last tier
arctic walrus
4 Loyals 
simple meteor
just have people sacrifice for you ez dps
cobalt pelican
yes
it is trick
i actually have 3 in my raid consistently rn
and prolly 4 if the other warlock gets a piece on reset
since they want to play it for some reason idk
scarlet bluff
so, i just got this forged to 450 https://www.wowhead.com/item=169311/ashvanes-razor-coral&bonus=4800:1517
it's 118 crit per stack. what crit% should i aim for?
i need 46 stacks to get 100% crit 😄 but that takes a long time
simple meteor
just pop it on pull and use it on 2nd vendetta
nimble tartan
naw bro wait for the 3rd vendetta
jagged mortar
does anyone else's opener look like this ?
subtle tundra
wait for bl with it
simple meteor
yeah nogs dont play with that pot aswell
strange python
ewe
jagged mortar
So the APL opener is fine but use umbridled fury instead?
simple meteor
yeap
robust mantle
So vision Essence is not as good as what we thought it would be?
meager nebula
after the repeated nerfs no
strange python
it is real bad
unreal perch
Vision is flat out bad for assassin
Bad synergy with things from vendetta and screws your timings
robust mantle
ahhh
unreal perch
Suddenly vendetta and vanish dont line up
subtle tundra
if you play with bote isnt gettin 25% crit really good?
strong sorrel
What's the deal with puffer vs frost bracers?
cobalt pelican
it was good when you got a full fatty vendetta
lusty narwhal
BG Farming ResidentSleeper
cobalt pelican
oris are reliably better st, puffer can be slightly better in aoe but are unreliable as the fish can miss if the boss moves
subtle tundra
next week is the AI brawl which means easy wins
quasi halo
Where do you find the apl in raidbots?
plain wraith
We want increased damage to aberrations on Waist correct? The pin says 2% damage but that part isn't on the tooltip so I'm rather confused 😛
jagged mortar
its fine to TB into 5 combo points on opener? seems strange overcapping
strange python
Well u won’t always have 5CP or 100% crit?
scarlet drift
he will with MA, wont he?
jagged mortar
85% with 35% crit base + MA?
jagged mortar
35+50
strange python
Not +MA then more like including MA
85 isn’t 100 tho
So u won’t always have 5 cp
scarlet drift
well I guess you are right, but you will in most scenarios crit that one :p
plain wraith
We want increased damage to aberrations on Waist correct? The pin says 2% damage but that part isn't on the tooltip so I'm rather confused 😛
jagged mortar
ahk so thats with BOTE rank 3?
my top gear doesnt like BOTE rank 2 vs lucid rank 3
not sure if APL's are updated for BOTE opener
placid dawn
@plain wraith yes, but the physical damage with increased threat is also good and works on all bosses
cobalt pelican
yes overcapping is fine on the tb
it happens more often than not but is still ideal
pearl pagoda
so im doing sims and it wont use a single np in my traits
placid dawn
maybe the second trait on the azerite piece is garbage
pearl pagoda
i mean its choosing between NP and blightborne infusion
i kinda want to ignore the sims because the extra bit of energy makes the vendetta window smoother
meager nebula
bbi is very good
pearl pagoda
im progging on ashvane tonight tho idk
jagged mortar
Would it be worth simming for the burst time like 30-40 sec or whatever it is on ashvane mythic?
cobalt pelican
ashvane is like.. a series of dps checks
loading all of your damage into np at an overall loss is like
celest lantern
how many scent of blood traits do i want
cobalt pelican
maybe good at helping you push 1 more phase but
drifting cloud
0?
cobalt pelican
not good at killing the boss overall
plain wraith
@placid dawn Thank yoU!
stark oxide
I don't like that you play undulating tides here
empty badge
its really good in higher keys.
stark oxide
in m+ espeically, that's gonna provide little actual damage. And people run high keys without that shielding
empty badge
it does roughly 7% of my damage at the end the dungeon
cobalt pelican
tbh m+ is much better for undulating than raiding
a lot of m+ damage taken is avoidable and there's downtime where the recharge isn't like
whether it's actually GOOD in m+ idk but it's less of a cocksucker atleast
stark oxide
meh I disagree. if it never procs its good damage, if it does proc you're giving up an entire major trait for an ok shield
Not saying its useless, I just don't like the sound of it
tribal marlin
I experienced this trait in arena today
feels pretty good BUT
it procs on dots and shits and unstealth me for no reason
cobalt pelican
random procs breaking stealth is a staple of the bfa experience
stark oxide
Seli still runs 3x ttk, 2 EB, 1 SS, I like that build
cobalt pelican
i mean, undulating is never going to replace one of the 3 best traits you can take
i don't think anyone is under that illusion
nimble tartan
illusion!!!!
rigid mango
Undulating is,in realistic scenarios fucking gaaaaaaaaaaarbage
cobalt pelican
yes omr i too love flipflappers
rigid mango
might be giga for farm though
pearl pagoda
i have socketed 425 (yes i regret bumping from 420) abberation belt, is the threat belt stronger than that even on fights like gorgonzola or zack?
quasi pewter
no
pearl pagoda
its simming like 400 dps better. maybe its not including the extra 2% dps?
quasi pewter
its not
pearl pagoda
ah
quasi pewter
i mean even without sims you can just check the other belt does like 1% overall dps
and i think 1 is less than 2
pearl pagoda
you might be onto something
cobalt pelican
just try adding target_race=aberration to the custom apl box
deft patio
for single target....tides or bouble dose?
whenever i sim it changes
so im confused
deft patio
ST?
subtle tundra
single target
nimble tartan
yeah
bleak spoke
man like i need more benthic pieces and i need rank 3 bote i'm actually so depleted wtf https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a8w5pyLfg3m8kEsEXgKv8j
arctic walrus
Hm is being gemmed full haste a waste of zaqul
arctic walrus
True the china man knows best
round harbor
@bleak spoke dont grind that shit out, the raid essence is better anyway =]
bleak spoke
man i was talking with a bunch of different peeps and they like it better than focusing iris in keys too
less paddy
less interference with rotation etc
i did 14k honor last night i think i want to die
quasi pewter
dont think im ever gonna bother with it
round harbor
protocol in keys
chance to insta delete a 1m+ mob is sinsane
even though it doesnt show up in sims or dmg meters
bleak spoke
man but like what if it doesn't happen
i think we need to figure out exactly how often it'll go off per key before we decide
round harbor
then unlucky, i get like 3 annihilates per dungeon on average
and ive used in ~30-40 keys
bleak spoke
also rank 3 is probably really good prio tbh
quasi pewter
deleting 1 in a pack is not that useful though usually
bleak spoke
i mean what if you use it on a smallie
quasi pewter
what kind of mobs does it delete?
bleak spoke
any
round harbor
bye bye void emissary that is hard, byebye a witchdoctor in the double pull
byebye honor guard that slaps tank
round harbor
ive deleted 4 suarids in a pack
quasi pewter
oh i assumed it was mostly small mobs
bleak spoke
huh
round harbor
that was week one though i havent had any multiple mob deletes in a while
bleak spoke
that's actually really interesting
round harbor
yeah the pack was there then it wasnt
bleak spoke
i thought i got a multidelete off of waycrest maggots
but i thought maybe someone else had just bursted hard
was triple rogue comp anyway
round harbor
my theory is that it "annihilates" a mob with 'x' numerical value
bleak spoke
oh like a mob id?
round harbor
and anything in that same numerical value has a chance to roll death
bleak spoke
cuz that would be giga
round harbor
yeah thats my theory atleast
bleak spoke
for stuff like gorgers etc
round harbor
yeha i have never had it happen again or on stream so i cant prove
bleak spoke
i still think waycrest is probably the place to play it if you do
hard to play it as sin imo tho
i think i'd consider it more strongly for outlaw for sure
bleak spoke
but right now i've been playing either lucid or focusing and weirdly enough doing around the same dam
round harbor
its still outclassed imo
subtle tundra
foking outlaw
bleak spoke
but the key bit i think is that there still has to be another rogue in there
round harbor
and insta delete mechanics
bleak spoke
so i think you still only play sin in keys when you have an outlaw rogue next to you to do the things
i honestly hate playing sin just for the reason that i usually do all the dirty jobs anyway
subtle tundra
the only time i see myself over an outlaw in keys is on bosses Pog
bleak spoke
and van as a dps cd is unlucky
round harbor
i hate playing sin cause its 200% more effort to do the same dmg and less utility
bleak spoke
ehh, you have better prio
bleak spoke
i think in a really strong group you can play sin and claw back some time
deft patio
FUUUCK OUTLAW
maiden siren
relax
deft patio
xD im not mad chill
maiden siren
bleak spoke
but in the vast majority of teams anyone plays with you definitely lose time playing sin
round harbor
sin cant vanish mid pack and get a free pot
bleak spoke
^that too
also lmao if you get fixated by some gigarandom mechanic and don't have van
cobalt pelican
when are they gonna make the void teleport stunnable too
subtle tundra
the most i have about sin is when there's an emissary teleporting and the tank starts pulling
cobalt pelican
so i don't have to wait for it to leave : )
empty badge
so seliathan stilll uses 3 TTK?
bleak spoke
3ttk is better for what sin does better than outlaw
empty badge
hard?
subtle tundra
talking about 3tk i have none on my azerite gear
maiden siren
3TTK, 2SS, 1EB is feeling really good for when i play assa in keys
bleak spoke
the energy balance varies from pack to pack
empty badge
im doing 16's and 17's what do you think
bleak spoke
and to set up the prio properly varies pack to pack
nah, 16s and 17s you probably want to mongo
quasi pewter
chain pulling doesnt even matter that much
bleak spoke
i don't think it'd be a timesave until maybe the 18s or 19s
when we have more gear like 20s and 21s
it was that way last season
but all the very high keys i played i ended up palying outlaw anyway cuz of safety/utility
and less variance
i'm not trying to multidot adderis and aspix on a 24 lmao
bleak spoke
you feel that way because you didn't play it properly
empty badge
as a player that gets 99 parses on every fight and can play my class pretty well it makes me feel like im doing something wrong
turbid zealot
quick question can azerite gear titan forge with sockets
bleak spoke
like if you watch seli just a handful of times you literally sit there going where the fuck is this damage coming from
quasi pewter
azerite gear cant forge at all
empty badge
yeh
bleak spoke
but then you realize that the way he plays every single pack is different
and then it's like
can i do that?
bleak spoke
and my answer last season was definitely no, though i might try to make it happen this season
cobalt gyro
ive ran with subbeam and like, the times i did go sin
even being the better sin of the two, it's really hard to match outlaw
not even just outlaw control, just, raw effective damage
round harbor
first to msg gets in keys
bleak spoke
yeh odo plays a better sin than me for sure
round harbor
between yall two
cobalt gyro
why not triple yellow man
bleak spoke
man we should just play triple rogue lmao
cobalt gyro
it's ok i have my monk on horde now
round harbor
only 1 spot xd
cobalt gyro
double yellow man + monk
bleak spoke
oh you mean right now
round harbor
same
cobalt gyro
but, yeah, sin's real hard to play effectively
not even just managing energy just.. putting damage in the right spots
round harbor
they invited some rando
cobalt pelican
just sinister strike
bleak spoke
i think the hardest with the ttk build is even cleave
and adjusting for damage differences on primary targets etc
empty badge
Yeah I mean I am running with some low players - im always told singlle target damage obviously and im always consistent but like big pulls and pulls 4+ mobs im always lacking bahind unless my razor coil and prepot lines up even
bleak spoke
like when you try to figure out which ones people focus
so you can focus other things
that's the worst
you have to like, anti-outlawbrain yourself
cobalt gyro
outlaw brain is the worst
especially with two outlawws
because there's 1 outlaw brain between every x number of outlaws in a party
meager nebula
zenith gust
i mean, if you want overall damage and compete with outlul, then go full padding. if you want to do you job, you will do less overall, but the key will be done faster and smoothier. high HP mobs susually the most dangerous and hardhitting, emisaries, bosses... all will go down faster.
bleak spoke
zzzz
royal lantern
wath is a subbrain?
bleak spoke
when i subbrain i tunnel dps tbh
cobalt gyro
he's just very, very, good
zenith gust
nah
bleak spoke
yeah he can do more damage than an outlaw rogue playing prio
there's video evidence of it shrug
zenith gust
lul one video evidence, theres plenty on the contrary
bleak spoke
lmao if you think his keys aren't indicative of the highest level of play
royal lantern
taking seli as evidence is.....weeeelll......
cobalt gyro
yes i'm sure a sin rogue who only plays sin rogue and got to the top of raiderio for rogues isn't good
royal lantern
he is slightly better then most of us will ever be
cobalt gyro
royal lantern
SLIGHTLY
zenith gust
we're talking overall damage her
bleak spoke
me too
quasi pewter
even with prio build you can easily outdps outlaws wdym?
empty badge
I mean to be fair there are good players
quasi pewter
especially this season
empty badge
annd then there are really good players
cobalt gyro
yes, if he wasn't competing consistently with overall, why would people take a sin rogue
empty badge
and then there are really good players with really good friends
bleak spoke
lmao if you think you can easily outdps a good outlaw rogue this season
empty badge
seli falls under the latter
bleak spoke
LOL
empty badge
kek
royal lantern
i have 1 friend that plays wow 
bleak spoke
Idk we’ll see next week how it goes when it’s not explo
cobalt gyro
all of mine quit
ancient dragon
yea im looking forward to testing both spec outs in M+ withtou explosive
this week ive played assass with demon hunters and outlaw if i needed to prio explosives
bleak spoke
Lmao if I let anyone but like a handful of other rogues I trust do explos
I’ve been burned so many keys on this affix
cobalt gyro
subbeam: "i got explosives"
bleak spoke
Where I play sin and end up mutilating them nonstop
cobalt gyro
also subbeam " wtf no one did any damage to them"
cobalt gyro
lmao
bleak spoke
It’s murder on your overall with a good group
cobalt gyro
is that why my scuffed ass could keep up
bleak spoke
Like I’ll smack gigarandoms on the meter while getting them but anyone who knows what they’re doing
It adds up over every pull even if you min max them
And you end up so far behind and it feels unlucky
bleak spoke
Ttks
empty badge
kk
empty badge
im running 2 TTK 1 UT 1 SS 1 DD and 1 NP
bleak spoke
Ut is probs okay if your double dps
empty badge
rogue/hpal
bleak spoke
Hpals can keep you topped
empty badge
ill go 2 TTK 2 DD 1 SS 1 NP then
is 2 SS terrible?
because I can also just go 3 TTK 2 SS 1 DD
bleak spoke
i don't think you get much out of ss in pvp cuz you use van as a defensive right
empty badge
yeah thats a good point
empty badge
np seems really good for burst
sharp thicket
Been off the sin train for a while, trying to read up; ttk is short for? (Cant find any traits on any of my gear that makes sense)
proven latch
twist the knife
ancient dragon
twist the knife, the evenom dmg increase per combo point spent
sharp thicket
Aaah tyvm
ancient dragon
i keep bleeds on both bosses with shadow step
ancient dragon
and rephresh the woman before the male guy does his bubble
SS is a shit trait now in pve
it snot even top 5 anymore, its ranked 10
tiny finch
oof
then only switch to other bosses with shadowstep for max uptime on main target right?
rigid mango
SS is good for court, yeah
Without a doubt.
If you can get 2-3 garrotes off per vanish window, SS > standard MA build
ancient dragon
i got 90 parse overall 89 parse for ilvl on court for HC
rigid mango
And that's like, the one fight where SS is a legit play
vapid scarab
if you're goblin you can swap more often than your step CD
rigid mango
I was talking to the club camel guy who killed it earlier today (might've been yday)
and he said he saw a good increase in running SS
ancient dragon
running 1 SS?
rigid mango
I'll trust anecdotal evidence from a top 10 guild player instead of 90 HC parses
😄
@arctic walrus what were you running on court
They priv log, dunno exactly
warm void
SS is top tier anytime you’re mult-dotting consistently
Not sure why he said it was a shit pve trait
rigid mango
It's only better than MA build if you get 2 garrotes off that live for more or less entire duration
quasi pewter
i mean ss is good for you dps but you want to get the first boss down to 35 as fast as possible
rigid mango
That's also true
quasi pewter
i played ma and it was fine
quasi pewter
wanted to try ss but couldnt reforge due to cost