Good to ditch haste. Was king too long.
#assassination
lone junco
royal lantern
haste will always be a really good stat simply because of how it works right now 🤷
it does so much shit for sin
royal lantern
and attack speed, melee hits are a huge part of dps in for melee right now, and more autoattack procs cus of it, and more dot ticks
not always #1, but its simply strong by default right now
lone junco
Ok.
Lots of stuff scales white damage. Haste gives raw e and bleed tick e.
The others can't do that.
Lucid breaks it.
rose drum
I'm only level 53 now but let's say I've got 4 combo point up. Is it more efficient to do a garrote, even if it's not about to fall off and not waste a combo point or to do mutilate and waste a point?
lone junco
Finish at 4 or 5.
rose drum
Okay, thanks. :)
dull osprey
How is The Font of Power looking in general? I know "Sim yourself" but is the break in dps synergistic to rogue rotations?
looks like it could be pretty good if you precast it right before vendetta window
modern kettle
what azerite traits do u recommend for m+ (as assa)
modern kettle
and is it worth it to run m+ as assa or better go outlaw?
stuck knoll
Both are good
stuck knoll
Play what you prefer or are better at
rigid mango
Since it's very specific in what it needs
stuck knoll
Or have the gear for
rigid mango
Outlaw is simpler to gear
modern kettle
it seems very dependant on traits the assassin
rigid mango
Yeah
lone mirage
modern kettle
u can always fo eb/crit gear for aoe and ttk/haste for single target but it would require even more gear
dull osprey
I liked the way sin felt in M+, the EB made it feel more interactive than outlaw's 1 button 70k dps
last ingot
I'm trying out assa (was outlaw for a long time), which essences should i take for raid, m+, pvp?
dull osprey
that being said, I play outlaw in M+ cause my gear is way better for outlaw and do too much dps to ignore lol
rigid mango
You're saying
BF is pressing one button and spamming rotation
Is less interactive
than spamming fok?
dull osprey
fok and maintaining rupt
midnight flower
Lol
rigid mango
@last ingot iris is fine for m+, bote M lucid m is BiS for ST
dull osprey
felt like I had to do more to optimize EB play than clicking BF on cd
amber sun
how come inkpod droppt so hard in value? i thought it would rather get better since the effect can crit and we stack a lot of it
somber forge
thats what outlaw is for, turning off your brain when you cbf
spice frost
why does warcraftlogs show bote major and minor and then lucid minor for most top logs? Is that people use bote major then?
faint harness
because the biggest dps increase from lucid is from the minor
spice frost
and is there a way to see which punchcards are in peoples computation device?
last ingot
should i use bote before vendetta on openingÍ?
faint harness
like since a few days ago, it changed
and now i think the play is to use bote + TB before you vanish
solemn meadow
We dont have correct sims for azshara atm?
or should I use azshara at pull or lurker
spice frost
so youd hold bote for 30sec every time?
woven summit
yall were not kidding when saying Iris is crazy
spice frost
also, punchcards, do i gotta go to every specific character? or is it mostly assume they using cyclotropic and whatever else they can get?
dense blaze
You ever just have zero vers
solemn meadow
nop
shell lodge
is it wort to respec into assa if i dont have 3x Nothing personal and at least 2 double dose?
stable walrus
Is this just for raids?
shell lodge
mhm
strange python
Anyone got any idea about stacking Undulating tides?
spice cloak
nah
shell lodge
hymm i see i can get 3 DD from items
and it acctally sims a bit higher than my outlaw right now.
yeh and its for Eternal Palace. didnt played Assa for a while, gonna be hell to get back to it. And learn what i s good and what is bad
spice frost
any way to sim punch cards before i slot them?
neon sedge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
drowsy scroll
@spice frost Just Gearcompare the trinket in raidbots. Create the same trinket with a different punchcard
zenith gust
@rigid mango what was it for M+ this season bro?
3xTTK + 2xEB + 1xSS?
or 3xTTK + 1xEB + 2xSS?
crystal barn
how should i use cyclotronic-blast in an opener? i use subterfuge and ss - i was thinking garotte-rupture-garotte then use the channel - any thoughts?
shell lodge
alright, screw that. Im going Assa. Can get 2x DD, and proably 2-3 NP. Tho not sure if i need 3 or there is somethink better
shell lodge
ttk ?
wu
i belive Galecallers Boon wont work too well on Eternal palace, any other pick from my inventory?
cuz sims are not rly good for trins
zenith gust
why is seli using lucid major and iris minor? isnt it better iris as major at least on fortified weeks?
faint harness
You'd have to ask the guy, he's in here quite often
I dont push m+ a lot so i don't know, but i'm sure he has his reasons. Lucid major sort of negates the like 0 haste you run in m+
But does it matter? is it worth getting a major that is on quite a long cd and basically only useable on bosses for that reason? That would be my biggest questions about it.
weary marten
when opening triple garrote i don't feel like energy starving in m+
i never get a chance to lucid
faint harness
No cus on aoe you aint starving at all, thats why lucid major is like probably mostly used on bosses
but there should be better major essences for that 🤷
weary marten
yeah 15 seconds of increased energy regeneration should change much your dps
if you have lucid passive
faint harness
But yea, its probably very contextual, like maybe his group is already big on the aoe dps and only needs big ST dps.
faint harness
fun affix
weary marten
i just had a KR it was a nightmare
vocal lion
are raid Azerite pieces good?
faint harness
1
weary marten
one head is sick, one chest is not that bad
faint harness
za'qul head
vocal lion
ooh i have 1st boss head
faint harness
same, unlucky drops
chilly marsh
what pot we are using now ? agi or crit ?
chilly marsh
what ? really
zenith gust
y
arctic walrus
Is there a way to reach the Tidemistresses on azshara without getting stacks from the rune?
spice frost
stand next to the rune and not on it
cant shadowstep though which sucks
just target a teammate next to it to step
@rigid mango you positive about the unbriled fury? Ravenholdt guide still says focused resolve but it might just not be updated
rigid mango
It's not
drifting cloud
the pot got nerfed on like wednesday or thursday, so most likely not updated
spice frost
aight, thnx ^^
drifting cloud
did u kill azshara zine?
spice frost
should i try to use cycltronic during bote debuff or just on its own?
hollow stone
Fury pots fo sho. And theyre cheap 👍
faint harness
i think you get more out of bote by using it with vanish + tb window
but it wasnt terrible to use cyclotronic with bote, only like 150 dps loss or something
onyx rock
@spice frost you question is pinned in #wow-general
spice frost
thank you, i always forget to look in there
idle ember
was using FR pots, but I'm super high crit so I switched to agi.. massive difference, unbridled fury is still the best?
shell lodge
so yeah, aparently sim tells me that i should go just for single Nothing personal, leave 2x DD and change that NP for Twist the knife .. ? is it even good?
if i go like 1x, 2x, 1x ?
tepid bramble
median harbor
razor coral a good trinket?
rigid mango
Yes, probably the best
young meteor
river zinc
with ashvane's razzor coral is there a certain stack I should activate it at?
river zinc
any suggestions?
drifting cloud
you activate it with the next vendetta
river zinc
ok thank you I can probably make a good macro then
carmine lynx
is it worth keeping and upgrading the pufferfish wrists (with socket) or start rerolling for the frost ones ?
dusky tinsel
anyone know when if at all its worth reactivating razor coral trinket?
sour wraith
Pufferfish is very close to the Ori's @carmine lynx
sturdy dust
What essences have you guys been running in M+?
ember pulsar
Iris mayor and Lucid minor
cobalt pelican
with a 415 dagger
zenith gust
is there any way to see on logs how benthic gear affected my damage? i dont seem to see anything about it
cobalt pelican
get a load of these guys
most of them will be in the log as a damage instance (coral shell, frosty mcfrosterson, etc)
just filter by damage done
crit boots are like harder
i don't get how this gear is 40k actually when i'm so far behind
have i been scammed
arctic walrus
Is that sim basically showing gemming haste boosts my dmg by 1k
cobalt pelican
it would appear so
rigid mango
gz vel
rigid mango
What's the diff?
arctic walrus
Look at how heavy haste is being weighted
zenith gust
deffinetely u need more haste
rigid mango
Wait
cobalt pelican
something is fucky
arctic walrus
topaz crow
apparently the red card from rustbolt is pretty good anyone got some experience with it
zenith gust
that's crazy
arctic walrus
I think font has to do something with it
chrome mirage
Does the new weapon enchant stack with itself?
rigid mango
no
boreal hemlock
does vendetta boost iris
rigid mango
No
Vendetta only boosts rogue abilities
Just how MA only gives crit to rogue abilities
cobalt pelican
the weird thing is nothing really seems all that off in the sim itself
so maybe font really is just an epic gamer moment
till you cancel it by accident at least
arctic walrus
Btw @cobalt pelican I tried casting in stealth and I get taken out?
cobalt pelican
still not pulling me out of stealth
cobalt pelican
currently have subterfuge randomly from playing pvp
arctic walrus
Yea if you go MA it'll pop you out
arctic walrus
subterfuge has always kept you stealthed for channeled casts like hearth idk
cobalt pelican
man
now i want to play subterfuge just to not have to remember to press my buttons a different way
dire spoke
Did anybody find out if simc expects 20 people with https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=168871/beloved-monarchs-waistwrap ?
arctic walrus
Think sims assume it's only you
sour wraith
Is subterfuge simming higher than MA even w/out SS traits for anyone else?
arctic walrus
Change to nightly
distant mist
arctic walrus
What u mean
shy radish
in Full HTML report u Tank spec
cobalt pelican
epic
shy radish
enemy="Fluffy_Pillow"
source=default
spec=unknown
level=123
race=humanoid
role=tank
position=front
talents=0000000
what this is?
arctic walrus
I'm not following what you want me to link lol
where can i find it
this?
rogue="Velaenâ"
source=default
spec=assassination
level=120
race=human
role=attack
position=back
professions=herbalism=175/engineering=2
talents=2312321
azerite_essences=27:3/300573/5:2/300575
umbral hearth
so for anyone running dripping inkpod, it looks like it's affected by toxic blade
was looking at my logs and wondering why on certain encounters it did 5x more damage than others
rigid mango
pretty sure it isn't?
umbral hearth
i would've gotten extra stacks because of shield, but even still it popped for 200k in most other encounters
it's the only way i can explain the extra 700k dmg
umbral hearth
it popped for 960k on ashvane
i don't think TB is responsible for all the extra damage, ashvane spends more time above 30% than other bosses so there's that
but that alone doesn't explain the extra damage
i'm gonna test a bit now so i'll report back
rigid mango
I'm relativly sure TB doesn't increase non rogue abilities
umbral hearth
i thought so too :/
arctic walrus
How much dmg does each stack do
sudden trench
How many stacks did you have on the boss when it popped
arctic walrus
It's not out of the ordinary, Ashvane must just be weird
That's the stack count for you and your fellow warriors
here's the damage proc
200k over the 430s
umbral hearth
hmm yeah that doesn't seem too outrageous
still a bit inflated though
actually maybe it's not lol
430 is 6048 damage
arctic walrus
It seems consistent on your other fights too
I'mt not sure why it hits ashvane so hard, but the %s are comparable
vapid scarab
it can crit
cobalt pelican
i mean
doesn't ashvane just stay below 30% for longer
because she gets a thiqy shield
gusty ice
anyone know if there's a way to sim essence ranks you haven't acquired yet?
arctic walrus
I thought the same at first but if you notice it only hits once the whole fight
cobalt pelican
shows as 2 damage instances no?
one when she goes below 30% the first time, and i guess some weird interaction with the shield caused it to proc a 2nd time
or not it applies 2 damage instances but literally immediately
arctic walrus
I can see it making sense if somehow the game considers the first 30% a hit, then after the shield dies a 2nd
cuz the damage is ~2x
Idk why it doesn't show on log tho
candid jacinth
hey guys, in pve do you envenom at 4 cp so you don't cap or should I mutilate to get 5 cp?
quasi pewter
candid jacinth
okay, ty
sullen sphinx
how do you guys juggle lurkers gift and the cyclotronic beam
what would my opener be with tose two trinks with MA and BoTE
sullen sphinx
ok thanks
rigid mango
You use it when neither vend nor tb is up and you're sub 80 energy
final dust
Where are we casting Font of Power Atm Rn i am casting before I cast Rupture on the Vendetta+Vanish?
hazy iron
Cast it at 5 seconds prepull, then 4 seconds prior to vendetta throughout the fight when your energy is low
final dust
does it take me out of stealth?
arctic walrus
If you're MA yes
final dust
Would it still be worth?
arctic walrus
you have time to restealth in opener
final dust
Hmmmm okay
Cause Rn im simming best With 2 active trinkets and it feels very clunky
So idk if the extra active is worth the 500 DPS
arctic walrus
For me personally, kimbul/dribbling were better than cyclo
But yeah I do feel it'd be clunky
onyx rock
Did they stealth nerft EB ? 🤔
coarse tusk
if you do the math on those logs it seems like tb might affect it
groinburg had the same stacks as the rogue and did 731.7k
1.3 x 731.7k = 951.21k
the rogue did 960.7k
its kind of close
rigid mango
not afaik
marble hemlock
no, you just pull very small due to bolstering/beguiling instead of having mobpulls with 20+ mobs (i.e. reaping)
rigid mango
I've seen a couple people complain about it
but I was pulling big numbers earlier 👀
seli you used memebeam yet?
rigid mango
It feels like in possible nerf territory
sudden trench
i find bote r3 better overall
vapid scarab
honorable ST only 
harsh goblet
Any tips on ashvanes razor coral trinket usage?
sudden trench
blood with eb is amazing, also blood is better ST. So for me in m+ i just run blood r3 with lucid r3
spare flame
Can someone give me some insight into how I should approach the sims on herodamage considering the template is Subterfuge and not MA? I
rigid mango
Thing is you don't want to be using more than 2 eb atm I feel like
You look at the sims and get a good look at it
Then you sim yourself accordingly
sudden trench
im running 2 ss - 2 eb and 2 bi - or 1 bi and 1 tb
rigid mango
1 tb?
sudden trench
ttk soz
rigid mango
I've been using 2/2/2 with memebeam or 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss
And honestly like, I feel like they're the best atm
They feel so good to play
sudden trench
i will give 3 ttk a shot
rigid mango
Still think blood is a waste tbh
sudden trench
ye it might be
rigid mango
With memebeam being what it is, but idk
sudden trench
thing is tho, if we pull big, we running DH, WW, Ass - i out dps the add pull even with them using memebeam
by just popping blood and FoK
120k+ on a pull
it has the be r3 bote tho
r2 isnt worth it
rigid mango
Sure, but I can pull 70k+ without using essence
And then pop memebeam to sustain that dps when cds drop
The real strength of memebeam i feel like is the fact that all 3 dps can use it and you wont lose much
You'll just pull accordingly
sudden trench
ye
rigid mango
I guess blood has the same function
since same cd and all
But man, I've been running 3 memebeam keys all day and it feels fucking nuts
You know a bad pack is coming up and shit just dies
we could pull bigger in UR on the basis of 3 beams coming in
sudden trench
i love memebeam, broken in pvp aswell.
vapid scarab
so that's why blizzard put a void before volkaal
rigid mango
Don't play pvp so can't say much about it
sudden trench
i think it will get a neft tho
vapid scarab
the one before volkaal?
sudden trench
voids can be nuked tho
vapid scarab
OP
sudden trench
wow
rigid mango
Yeah.
So I mean they wont be that bad once you get the hang of doing that
even if you don't have 2 rogues, just doing the first and skipping 2nd might still be the best
sudden trench
ye indeed
jolly agate
Gotta make up that % somewhere tho
sudden trench
Zine you stacking crit for m+ ye?
sudden trench
ye
rigid mango
Think both are in 40's now
You did that skip for a long time, all you have to do is do some semi weird pulls and it's all good
It's for sure worth it though
keen spruce
someone else had the same thing yesterday
what pot are we using?
in raid now?
superior agi or one of the other ones
arctic walrus
unbridled but sim it anyway
rigid mango
@arctic walrus it's because of bote + ma + natural crit = overcapping
arctic walrus
I don't run blood though
arctic walrus
lucid iris
rigid mango
Then it's just naturally taking over I suppose
rigid mango
That's the opener?
rigid mango
Weird
arctic walrus
Interesting dagger 
rigid mango
Try simming w sub
marble elm
i did
arctic walrus
Didn't know they can go above 415
rigid mango
Hc?
marble elm
no lucid minor 
arctic walrus
bote might make MA better for u
marble elm
kinda surprised that iris minor simming higher than nearly 75% uptime 5% damage
from vers proc
arctic walrus
With whatever is going around with this font haste stacking, iris makes more sense
marble elm
i gained like 1k simdps today wearing the same gear
marble elm
atleast gems are like 20g
sullen sphinx
with rank 2 bote do you not use it on cd and instead sync it with vendetta+vanish?
vapid scarab
yes
lime path
assuming I don't have access to bote yet, which minor essence would you say would be a decent placeholder
provided that lucid dreams is still best for st
I did sim, I got numbers that were close enough to be negligible with my current gearset. was wondering if anyone knew what scaled better w/ ilvls or if there were any bonus perks I wasn't thinking of
my fault for wording it in a lazy form the first time I guess
hazy iron
Things are changing a lot at the moment
Personally focusing iris minor lucid major sims best for me.
I don’t have bote and have no interest in ever grinding it. I’m not raiding at a top 100 level so I’m not concerned with it.
spice cloak
wierd how different essences sim for everyone. lucid rank 3 sims lowest behind something like worldvien for me
lime path
I'm assuming lucid would lose some value if you already have a ton of haste
spice cloak
19%..
lime path
is it worth pooling and min maxing elaborate planning? or is it nominal?
vapid scarab
@spice cloak how many people are you simming worldvein with
@lime path no
treat it just like a passive basically
in AoE you can space out your ruptures to keep it up but it's a very minor optimization
spice cloak
patchwerk. blood rank4 worlvien 2
hazy iron
Worldvein auto sets it’s self to 5 allies. Change that option and see what happens.
vapid scarab
yeah, an agi buff that scales with the more people you sim it with
spice cloak
right so why set it to 1?
vapid scarab
0 would be just yourself
spice cloak
id wanna know what other using it as well would sim at
vapid scarab
if you know other people are running it then set it to that number
spice cloak
there are people using it
vapid scarab
yes, exactly
spice cloak
gotcha
vapid scarab
the other problem is the crystals are only an 8 yard range
so you have to check your uptime in logs as well
spice cloak
ive found that to be less of an issue in practice as melee ymmv
vapid scarab
just depends on the fight
it's not just about you being around your crystals, it's about how much everyone using it can stay stacked to all benefit from each other
lusty narwhal
Its not great for other classes so kinda hard to stack depending on comp
Better off using something else
spice cloak
bote4/iris 1 sims close with vein/5 players guess might try that
strange python
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
stray ivy
which is better in m+ sin rogue or ele sham
winter moss
so imma settle this once and for all
potent raft
Outlaw
winter moss
depends on what role you have to fulfill in the dungeon, and comparing melee to range is like 
sin has high priority damage and decent aoe
ele shaman has almost the same but ranged, 14sec kick cd, earth ele,....
meager nebula
12 second *
potent raft
I have a question about Azerite powers. The recent T24 APL was updated on herodamage. And it is now by-default using Subterfuge. Can anyone explain why is that?
The "meta" until now was 3 double dose +3 nothing personal or 3 dose+1x nothing + 1x twist the knife + 1x blightborne/treacherous
And all that with MA.
Now it defaults to Subterfuge and I am trying to make sense of it all
Are we back to 3x SS with Subterfuge and Exsanguinate meta?
winter moss
well lets do a little elaboration together
how many fights have cleave in EP
actual cleave, where the second target lives 20 sec +
stray ivy
why is Sin doin gso good in EP
vapid scarab
because it does a lot of damage
upbeat geode
guys i have to use foccusing iris in a fight, how would you guys use it in your opener (2 targets)
magic ginkgo
For Ashvane's Razor Coral , what is the effective timing for using the second active?
magic ginkgo
okay, what would you recommend doing for M+?
vapid scarab
just put it on targets and you'll get crit as they die
potent raft
@winter moss so the reason DD+MA was used so much is because you had to change targets a lot in BoD? ( i skipped 95% of season 2) and now that EP is mostly ST, SS+Subterfuge is king again?
zinc furnace
winter moss
MA+DD is very good for pure ST fights
SS+Subter is good for Cleave where the target lives through the duration of the empowered garrote, which is 18 secs
rougly 20sec+
e.g Azshara heroic: the Adds that draw power from the ward, ~12mil hp on a 22 man raid
faint harness
You would call azshara cleave 
sharp viper
multi target certainly
vapid scarab
everything but the last phase has multiple long lasting targets
faint harness
In 2nd phase you dont attack anything but the boss unless you pad aoe on the many adds
vapid scarab
tidemistresses?
faint harness
In 3rd phase you focus 1 tidemistress
Like i dunno, i feel like that fight is mostly ST
vapid scarab
you focus one and cleave off the other...
faint harness
It sounds suboptimal to run around and try cleave things for the sake of cleave
vapid scarab
you tank the boss on top of them
faint harness
Yea ofc
vapid scarab
ok, so that's cleave
faint harness
Sure, but also for just a few seconds
upbeat geode
we run 12 dps with focusing iris and just delete em , no need to hit them as a rogue
vapid scarab
tidemistress lives a lot longer than "a few seconds"
faint harness
Assuming everyone just pumps their dps into them
vapid scarab
it lives at least 20s, enough for you to get full sub value
faint harness
Yea true, but the real fight is a ST burst phase in my opinion
upbeat geode
the 2 adds that cast shields in p3 also line up with vanish
faint harness
Yea and thats where you want the dps
fallow otter
MA does more dmg to the prio target right? Sub does more dmg over all which is the padding on the add, considering azshara is a prio fight except for the first 2 adds which die together and are spread apart mostly im still MA for it
fallow otter
can still cleave with MA but its mainly for the energy regen on the prio target
faint harness
Keep dots on boss, but like why go sub to do slightly more dmg to the boss
upbeat geode
in last phase you dont have vanish or vendetta, so ss or ma doesnt matter. dd is the only thing that does dmg in p4 so i would focus on that
fallow otter
love DD
marble elm
On aszhara?
upbeat geode
ye
if you have trouble hitting dps check in p1 or the transition in p3 i would recommend SS
marble elm
How do you not have cds for the last phase
vapid scarab
I would agree if last phase were an actual dps race
you can kill the boss with like 7 people dead last phase
upbeat geode
you get cd's back in transition where add has to die quick so i use them there
faint harness
Yea that works for me too
upbeat geode
"on add with lust" is not last phase imo
marble elm
Those are two separate uses
faint harness
You dont lust the adds
upbeat geode
yes were lusting p4 too
grand matrix
Hello, i have one question about azerite trait, with Nothing personal it isn't better to use Toxic blade before Vendetta to boost damage from it
marble elm
I don’t see how it’s possible that you don’t have cds in the last phase
upbeat geode
nightr, we are just disagreeing what last phase it 😄
marble elm
??
faint harness
How can p4 not be last phase tho
upbeat geode
you have cd's on the last adds
marble elm
Link a log?
faint harness
Unless you somehow kill the boss while adds are up
marble elm
You would have to kill the boss in like 6:10
faint harness
Yea its some heavy lifting
rotund oar
is sin good in m+?
winter moss
do you see alot of em?
winter moss
court?
fallow otter
court of stars?
wise whale
im german i dont know the english name
winter moss
it's pretty hard to compete with range dot classes on this boss due to tanking them apart
so best bet is to focus on one
vapid scarab
spread dots when you have step up
mighty elm
Found it the best to refresh when tank switch aswell
wise whale
Ah i see thank you
faint harness
In that log he's actually swapping completely
Using envenoms and mutilates on the caster
vestal wren
Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
Ravenholdt: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
marble elm
If you have dots on one and you step to the other might as well just stay there instead of waddling back
vestal wren
if you want prio damage mut is rly potent
fok does not do a lot damage esp. if it comes to getting a specific target down
sharp viper
in the court fight you need to swap to the other target if the one you are currently training on is using his/her big ability
fallow otter
us rogues hard swap for when we have to spread 5yards or whatever it is
solid nova
Apologies in advance
Frequently Asked Questions
-Type !Help for a list of all our bot commands
Azshara's Eternal Palace https://tinyurl.com/yxqp5vbn
Dungeon Azerite Drops https://goo.gl/4udfQ4
Essence Overview !Essence in the relative spec channel
"But what Benthic gear should I get?"
Hands: Frost damage
Boots: Crit damage
Waist: 2% damage to aberrations / Physical damage
Wrist: Frost damage/Puffer
To sim aberration damage correctly, Raidbots has an individual checkbox to enable this
Roll for these with a socket see: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/benthic-gear-effects-nazjatar
How to use Razer Coral trinket?
- For Assa, stack the crit conversion use with Vendetta. Coral also has a great synergy with the Dribbling Inkpod sub 30%.
Font & Coral Useage
- Use font 5s precombat (to allow prepot time) and after that pretty much on cooldown as long as Vendetta has less than 20s on its cooldown.
More info in #tc-updates
Misc
-The damage part of all traits stacks, for example SS doesn't grant an extra combo point after the first trait but grants more damage for every stack.
-Pandemic relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.
Please utilise the pinned messages as well as the resources and information in #rules-and-guides before moving your questions to the appropriate channel
mighty elm
That thing does like no dmg tho
faint harness
If you start on the warrior boss you can legit train him for the entire fight
mighty elm
Atleast on HC
sharp viper
pin spam time ruining my chat experience 😦
solid nova
mighty elm
Idk I did 42.7k on court by just letting the tanks bring new boss to me and then go back to other one 
vapid scarab
Also found out today you don’t have to line azshara ever, base feint is plenty to just eat it everytime
faint harness
Even with stacks?
vapid scarab
Dunno but the one time I did it and panicked without cloak I lived with like 70%hp
fallow otter
healer do something like voidstone?
harsh sphinx
thought bote was used right after TB before vanish>env
fallow otter
should check logs
cerulean walrus
Thanks Richard 
fallow otter
if thats true that would be awesome, so the answer is interesting
5stacks feint survival plz confirm haha
faint harness
Yea if its possible to live with 50% hp im all for it
solid nova
I just need to clarify coral usage and i'll add that too
Character limit on the other pin 
faint harness
Our tank got a 450 font of power with a socket yday btw
Just wanted to ruin your days
He wont even use it
mighty elm
Why is it actually saying bote before Tb
harsh sphinx
"- With Master Assassin and Blood of the Enemy, use Blood into Vanish+Finisher after TB within Vendetta. (Thx to Mikihisa for investigating this.)" @solid nova 
vapid scarab
I can’t find it on logs on mobile
fallow otter
yeh thats a mission
faint harness
How much dmg does it do
fallow otter
ill try tonight, ill report back if RIP haha
solid nova
Got it, thanks. Had Sin/Outlaw/Sub pins on another discord writing them at the same time
Brain farted 
wise whale
which MA opener is better?
the delayed blood vanish is higher but is that normally the case?
harsh sphinx
Mutilate > Rupture > Mutilate > Garrote -> Vendetta + On Uses > Toxic Blade > Blood of The Enemy > Vanish > Env > Mut > Env
mighty elm
@wise whale you mean if it’s worth dotting both?
wise whale
oh is he dotting 2 targets?
faint harness
Checking arcane detonation or arcane burst
wise whale
ah now i understand
vapid scarab
Detonation
faint harness
Seems weird that it would do 90k without feint
mighty elm
It does no dmg
faint harness
Ive sadly seen it 1 shot ppl
mighty elm
Idk, had ppl taking it to the face just to test during our kills yday
scarlet sequoia
Just cloak then
vapid scarab
Well either way, feint should be more than fine to let you just eat it
With 5 stacks even
faint harness
Yea, seems good
fallow otter
yeh first ill feint 2nd ill try feint and have cloak handy for it just incase im not topped or took a sneaky extra stack by accident
scarlet sequoia
Nothing else to use cloak for that fight so may as well
vapid scarab
Go for the 10 stack no los with a friendly priest
fallow otter
yeh 2nd one ive been using it on
faint harness
10 stack is hardmode version
vapid scarab
Tbh I wonder if that trait could actually be relevant in that way
Purposely saccing people to give the raid stats
upbeat geode
shamans can die and ank to increase raid dps
fallow otter
you guys get the bracers or gloves benthic
gloves sim well but no one lists them here
something about them i dont know?
vapid scarab
They heal more than they do dmg
vapid scarab
In sims they only do dmg
solid nova
Gloves are good sure, but there are also 5 pairs of gloves so finding them as well as a socket is less likely than any other piece
As well as the healing portion not being accounted for in sims iirc
Its healing portion is not properly accounted for
junior flume
Are you generally sticking with wrist, waist and boots and not worrying about other benthics?
solid nova
If you can get that lucky sure
fallow otter
waist cbf, 2 bosses
faint harness
Just using boots and wrists personally
fallow otter
+1
vapid scarab
Physical aoe waist :p
junior flume
I have waist and boots, just need the wrist
marble elm
Not farming on 6 alts for every piece 
solid nova
5 wrist rolls of socket swim speed and indestructible yesterday 😃
faint harness
solid nova
Could have been so good
fallow otter
yeh ive got phys dmg wrists socket but not frost
vapid scarab
Swim speed bis for behemoth tho
junior flume
Get the mecha punchcard 😛
solid nova
I wonder if it stacks with cyclo swim speed card 
mighty elm
It doesn’t
solid nova
But ye gloves are good but healing portion is squiffy + pufferfish wrists arent bad either
solid nova
Id personally be fishing for a socket
fallow otter
yeh that goes without saying
solid nova
Surely gear compare would give you a more accurate result then
fallow otter
its more about comparing them them to each other rather than that actual increase
but yeh
marble elm
Gear compare and sim each piece at 415 or 420 with a socket
fallow otter
this is "Droptimizer" 😃
solid nova
Ye i can see what it is
fallow otter
either way i was just comparing the 3 diff bracer options and the gloves
forgot that the orbs will go off and heal instead of just dps
so ill forget about those
i was rolling for bracers anyway
vapid scarab
Gloves are still better than nothing but yeah, last priority
fallow otter
yeh well hopefully my luck is better than bod or a 425 socket gonna be good for a while
still no jaina mount sigh
icy ember
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eqWzQjbzovGFaxnJg8YvVe finally rolled the boots w/socket, they are simming higher at 400ilvl
tall narwhal
guys im currently running 3 x shrouded suff for m+
do you think it's worth it to switch to 2 x shrouded and get 1 echoing blades ?
cause that's the only option for me
flint verge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ojTf5W4XHgdrwW18KMG5cX It is normal that the sims took me to only 14% haste and tell me to leave lucid dream? thx
zenith hatch
Blood of the enemy + EB is fun in m+ u should have atleast 1 imo
modest tendon
I think focussing iris is better but idd it’s good
onyx rock
I switched from 3xSS/3xEB to 3xTtK/2xEB/1xSS with 45% crit and man... this is so fun ! I love it... did a 139 Envenom. It feels like a Sub Rogue but better
clever niche
Ttk?
strange python
Twist the knife
clever niche
Thank you
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
misty tusk
!essence
hazy iron
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wSRTjFrjwtP737CBdcaxhG something funky happening with haste 🤔
winter moss
lucid minor
hazy iron
yeah i take it something is broken with it. it simmed higher than other minors for me
which is when weights started going spaz
winter moss
why should it be broken
hazy iron
I don't know, i guess correlation isn;t causation
but prior to that sim I had full haste gems and haste weighted 2.0 something. replace 2 with mastery and now it's 0
scarlet sequoia
obviously that sim is fucked rofl, no way you get your haste value to 0.02
hazy iron
yeah i dunno
winter moss
how much haste do you have
hazy iron
currently 22% which is huuuuuuuuge. but haste had never dropped below 3.8 until today
scarlet sequoia
a fair bit is not from ~4 to 0.02
winter moss
0.02 seems abit odd
hazy iron
there is something up because i ran gear compare for gems, and it said go full haste from mastery, was about a 600 dps increase doing so. but in doing so, my dps actually went lower
has the simc addon updated overnight?
winter moss
coming to 0.11
so i assume you have ~24% crit 22%haste 38% mastery?
ok nvm you have very high crit
hazy iron
34 crit 21 haste 32 mastery
winter moss
if warcraft logs is uptodate
winter moss
i can see why the mastery skyrockets
rigid walrus
wtf is happening to haste
hazy iron
lol lich you think that's bad, min is at 0.1 currently haha
winter moss
lich is sub 20 haste
rigid walrus
yeah i saw dude
winter moss
3.75 for haste i normal
rigid walrus
yah 19.63%
hazy iron
yeah
scarlet sequoia
haste will still make your bleeds tick faster tho, so it makes no sense that it would be 0.02
winter moss
sigh
hazy iron
I was at 16% a few days ago
winter moss
too much for actual dmg output
hazy iron
then i got that rust resistant loop
winter moss
bleed dmg isnt increased by any traits so what is your point raz
in the advanced sim you had a dmg break down with a 0.15% target error
scarlet sequoia
that haste will still increase your damage by more than 0.02
winter moss
1 point in haste would have been 0.11 dps increase why not
scarlet sequoia
idk doesnt make sense to me, but i guess its correct
winter moss
get to 22% haste , get 3ss traits and spec into exsang
if you wanna see haste on top
stat weights are shaky af due to the new essences
rigid walrus
basically bc of new essences ya
hazy iron
haha
winter moss
how much crit?
scarlet sequoia
25.5%
scarlet sequoia
i guess that makes sense
hazy iron
less need for energy regen, especially with lucid
winter moss
and if lucid procs
and bleeds not being enhanced by any traits or talents like subter or SS trait
haste 
scarlet sequoia
crit is a lot more fun anyways
hazy iron
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hUieHHQzUwuAdBrzWxp9PY changing to world vein from iris minor
thats fucking weird
lost tree
how much BG's dp i need to play to get the 50k?
scarlet sequoia
well iris minor gives haste
hazy iron
omg yeah you;re right
winter moss
around 70-75 @lost tree
hazy iron
i'm dumb
solid nova
lost tree
k thanks thats less then i thought
winter moss
160+ for 100k
solid nova
Can you even reliably keep a 5 stack worldvein?
hazy iron
no, i dont normally run it
winter moss
because it stops at 4
solid nova
Yeah like worldvein sounds great and all but
hazy iron
i just wanted to see what happened when changing away from iris minor
lost tree
does the 50% Alliance increase Honor count to the achievment?
solid nova
Yes
winter moss
because due to alot of movement going on in the fights you cant stick to the crystals
winter moss
it is
and iris major+minor
juicy haste with unlimited pad
even tho it "sims" less than wv
hazy iron
we already tried world vein in our group, it wasn't great
winter moss
Wv patchwork smh my head, melees get cucked
hazy iron
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oJJ4F7RQL6CLn7Vd7Vi7DT running subterfuge brought haste up to 1.2 haha
i need to screw around with my SS gear after raid and see what i can figure out
peak saffron
so dropping worldvein, what are you guys turning to? not sure how to sim for best result. I have blood of the enemy and lucid rank 3 and ill have crucible rank 3 tuesday
charred moat
theres not a way to change the talents on bloodmallet/hero damage right? its switched back to subterfuge for whatever reason
peak saffron
anyone got any advice?
tame cobalt
solid nova
Use Top Gear on raidbots to sim your essences
peak saffron
thanks
winter moss
Bote is good aswell
ember rover
BotE R3 is not good, it's BiS till CLF R3.
strange python
What essence to run in m+ if I’m using 3x EB 2x TTK
ember rover
Always Iris.
strange python
Ok
sullen sphinx
Is it weird my sim is telling me to run iris major lucid minor and go subter
Looking at the logs no one is doing that lol
winter moss
link the sim
sullen sphinx
Not home anymore and can’t run top gear on my phone
But it’s like a 2k increase from BOTE ma
coral aspen
@sullen sphinx do you have SS traits? could be the reason? 😃
winter moss
...
coral aspen
if you look at warcraft logs everyone with SS uses subt onyl the guys without it don´t ^^
sullen sphinx
I thought that was probably it
flint verge
@sullen sphinx Undaddy did so in yersterday raid
winter moss
@neat estuary no
tall narwhal
do you guys think it's worth to upgrade the benthic azerite gear ?
ember rover
He said azerite.
tall narwhal
but like helmet / shoulder / chest
ember rover
Which, yea, don't upgrade benthic azerites.
neat estuary
still feels better 😄
crisp steppe
@neat estuary depends on fight/timings
winter moss
i said no
after you said change my mind
no
ss imo feels more rewarding
than a 3sec window of +50 crit
neat estuary
exactly 😄
crisp steppe
If you want to burst every 2 mind starting from pull that wouldnt work with sub. Or you have to skip first vanish
So fight timings can fuck subterfuge in that wwy. I do think it is generally more enjoyable. Used to it from playing m+
winter moss
i mean
take azshara heroic
if your group isnt full of donkeys
azshara spawns when vendetta hast 5sec cd left
- pulling her to the edge
enough amount of time to set everything up
and full blast again
tropic ocean
only important thing on azshara is to take iris to massive pad adds
winter moss
then next time you get vanish ready is when the venomtongue draws power from the wards
crisp steppe
Yeah it just depends on the fight. Ur guilds killspeed etc
crisp steppe
Like blockade. Playing subterfuge might lead you to miss a vendetta. Or you habe to skip a vanish
Depending on killtime
winter moss
idk man
crisp steppe
Most bosses dont work like that tho
winter moss
i got vanish vend up when we transitioned
so yeah you are right
but being pushed into a certain talent because your guild/group is too fast/not fast enough
it shouldnt be like that
and in addition
stormwall is almost a bad example
supple monolith
How do you get crusible of flame rank2?
neat estuary
to be honest, i consider my 2d CE guild casual enough for me to just play what i enjoy more ... even if MA maybe for some fights gets me higher parses
i usualy cant parse anyway cause i look after other raiders who fuck up so i can pick up the slack
i want the boss dead, not orange logs
winter moss
dont flatter yourself
i couldnt care less
if my parse is orange
i need orange parses if i wanna swap guild
so i stick to green ones
🙂
cobalt pelican
they're not exclusive really and shouldn't be treated as such
strange python
@hazy iron how Works that azshara trinket? can i channel it, go to stealth prepot and rotation?
cobalt pelican
if you're well geared and play a fight well regardless of mechanics you will orange parse once there are a decent amount of parses in
you do not have to literally int the raid to do so even though a lot of people do
rn it's a bit wonky cause the fights just don't have a high volume of logs
neat estuary
@cobalt pelican i disagree
for casual mythic guilds
it is quite common that a few players need help with stuff
tepid ridge
is anyone still looking to parses? like really? lmao
neat estuary
yes
cobalt pelican
parse should be treated as a natural reflection of your percentile performance on a given fight, if yours drops significantly when you have to multitask maybe there's someone better to do so in your raid
royal lantern
thats not how it works
cobalt pelican
yes, it literally is
royal lantern
there will always be people with bad parses lol, saying its easy too reach orange is dumb
cobalt pelican
oh no
tropic ocean
but it is
royal lantern
because,well, somone must make up for the other 90%
cobalt pelican
this is with the caveat you're a well geared player who CAN play well given no other things happening
cosmic pier
just do more damage 4Head
cobalt pelican
if you're just a mediocre player then obviously that's fine
but saying it's because you're caretaker
just isn't true
unless you're very poor at multitasking or literally have to run around a platform showing people where to go
or something
neat estuary
na
cobalt pelican
follow me raider with puddle drop we're going to safety choo choo
neat estuary
it can come down to small things
like 2-3 people not switching targets accordingly
and suddenly i feel like id rather pump my CDs into the add to make sure we kill it fast anough and maybe waste half of my vendetta
tepid ridge
parses are pathetics atm, it's just padding as much as you can
it's not even skill reliant
neat estuary
but the outcome is no chaos in the raid, enough time to reposition etc
tepid ridge
except on ST boss without mechanics lol
tropic ocean
you dont need to pad to orange log though
royal lantern
#wow-general btw
cobalt pelican
no you
tropic ocean
convo ded
tepid ridge
parses without weighted damages are like pure shit w/e as Tryan said #wow-general
lost tree
BG's on alliance side makes so much fun. Oh wait no alliance is just stupid af... 
hazy iron
@strange python yeh I channel at 5 sec and stealth / pot at 1
just remmeber to channel it 4 sec prior to vendetta coming up in fight
strange python
Yep, ty
grand matrix
Is it normal to not see the essence that make Vendetta proc and reduce Cd isn't in the ranking ?
dark crag
Its vendetta
naive ridge
hello, should i use ashvane's razor coral on cd?
eager fossil
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
grand matrix
my bad the name is different from the item
i see it in the ranking
And in the opening what do you think about using toxic blade before Vendetta when you play with Nothing personal ?
silver musk
hey guys when i supposed to use cycc blast trinket
vernal fern
when u are pooling energy and have nothing else to do
which means it can be quite late into the pull especially if you have like lucid major
chilly dagger
But its still one of the best trinkets
rigid mango
You use it when outside vend, tb and you have sub 80 energy
dark crag
Np is a dot, no reason to use tb before vendetta
rigid mango
iirc
fiery hazel
vendetta does not buff cyclonic, correct?
chilly dagger
Correct
fiery hazel
ok, thanks!
chilly dagger
If im not wrong, trinkets are no longer affected by increased dmg CDs
fiery hazel
in general? Alrighty.
rigid mango
They are
By some
But vendetta is a whitelisted ability and only affects rogue abilities
same as MA only increases crit for rogue ablities, and tb same there
chilly dagger
And its boots, but you have benthic ones with gem
lusty narwhal
430 bracers LUL
strange python
nah its ok, i got 2 items from full normal/HC and 5 bonus rolls
but dagger with socket and ring
chilly dagger
I had luck with 1 boss on pug after our raid and rolled 435 dagger with gem