So you can open with garrote, smeld garrote 3 again. Then vanish and garrote again
#assassination
sudden trench
ember rover
@vestal carbon Underrot is best dungeon and I always started with farming it at the start of a season.
You get BiS dagger from there as well as an assortment of leather gear that has really great stats for Assa.
Aside from the pants, every single piece of gear from there has either crit, haste or mastery on it.
honest needle
is this good i never seen this on any guides before https://gyazo.com/4a24cf7d79b655fb322f20f7e963df86
cold fossil
hmm
seems shit
use gives like 1k dps by itself
453 agility is only like 1200 dps
maybe its more than i thought actually, looks good for replacement dead-eye
ember rover
It's on use, so that decreases it's effectiveness massively.
Since you can't pair it with the new monster trinkets from raid.
ember rover
I just told you why.
honest needle
o the new raid trinkets are good ?
ember rover
If you have another on use trinket, the one that you just linked is very bad since you can't use both of your on use effectively.
honest needle
which raid trinkets should we aim for ?
ember rover
What's your other trinket?
honest needle
right now i have 405 dead eye and 400 kimbu claw and 400 harlans dice
ember rover
Eh, I dunno, the 1.5min CD kind of makes it out of place.
As well as the 14s duration
Syncs very badly with vendetta.
honest needle
ya
strange python
Im noticing alot of use of the punch card trinket
Anyone able to elaborate for me so i can understand what i should be looking for
hushed valley
sullen sphinx
opener with MA and BOTE?
ember rover
Muti - Rupture - Muti - Garrote - Vendetta - TB - BotE - Vanish Into Envenom - Muti - Envenom
harsh sphinx
check #tc-updates
strange python
@ember rover that is just with blood though right?
warm lintel
Dumb question but what is BoTE?
warm lintel
Ah ok
ember rover
Yes, that's only valid with BotE.
rough agate
Are benthic gloves the better choice over bracers? Have boots already
Think i saw people talking that gloves sims are misleading or something
worn crag
Problem is my bracers are 425 with socket so hard to roll the benethic ones better or are they also better without socket?
meager nebula
you can sim the bracers in gear compare to see how they match up to yours
reef axle
Font to be used pre pull? ie 4-6 seconds?
topaz trout
Im assuming for coral its let stack and during fight its ..3+CP > Vendetta > TB > BOTE > VANISH + ENV > MUT > ENV > MUT > CORAL + ENV with ~40 ms latency or else minus the last mut before coral
fair stag
@distant mist you're not using Blood essence?
distant mist
to bad its boe and im selling
it actually simmed less for me :x
even when i did r3 sims
vapid scarab
I think that while BotE may sim slightly lower than lucid, on a lot of fights it ends up being better because you get so much excess energy from venemous wounds that lucid gets delayed/you overcap too much
everybody logging well seems to be using BotE despite it simming lower
obviously it's too early in the tier to draw absolute conclusions but it's just something that I've noticed and thought about
and once we get the raid essence at r3 then none of this will even matter anyway
fair stag
I noticed that too
vagrant urchin
any advice on Za'qul?
real bay
tfw pot breaks u out of stealth 1s before pull and you don't notice, at least it's now fixed
distant mist
im looking forward to the condensed life force r3
vapid scarab
which of these do you guys like better for tracking multidotting
one uses boss frames and one is a WA
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/109180498793758720/599499271909277706/InkedWoWScrnShot_071319_011105_LI.jpg
distant mist
i like both
lime path
can you link both? I wanna test em out
vapid scarab
the WA is nice because it would also work outside of raids/boss fights, for m+ and stuff, but the boss frames look a lot nicer/cleaner
I can't link the boss frames without linking my whole elvui profile unless you want that
vapid scarab
https://wago.io/TYzyWji4e/2
i didn't make it btw just found it
lime path
thanks
vapid scarab
wait I had no idea you could clamp nameplates at the base instead of overhead
this changes everything
topaz trout
im not sure how I feel about cyclotronic
I assume I use it after my opener and after vendetta wears off
lime path
I despise any and all on use stuff, but that's cuz I'm a lazy boi
vapid scarab
check #tc-updates for cyclo usage @topaz trout
onyx hedge
Ok so im just in a casual guild atm, i raid with a heroic prog team and we get aotc at least by the end of the teir but im thinking of going to a CE guild, atm im i sim 28k dps and im 415. I see people that sim like 35k+ and are only 5 ilvls higher than me and are doing 10k+ dmg, im not sure if its becuase im playing my class wrong but im 90% sure that is not the case since im getting 80-90 parses and i have played rogue since start of legion, i just wondering if any CE rogues who are doing that sort of dmg have and idea and are willing to not take me as a joke and just someone to make fun of and are willing to help me get my dmg up to that level, single target im holding 27k-32k just standing there which is apartently what im suppose to be doing acording to sims, im not sure if its my stats talents or traits, im running 25%crit 19% haste 42%mast 4% vers, 3x Double dose 2x Nothing Personal and 1x blightborne infusion my talents are 2312221
Im not sure if its jsut that i have shit gear, In the sim im using Focusing Iris becuase as of the present time im doing Azshara heroic but would usual use Lucid dreams
lime path
holy wall of text batman
onyx hedge
Im asking for mature and actual responses, though im expecting shit like (get good) 😦
lime path
your sim isn't accurate
onyx hedge
how??
lime path
a fully raid buffed sim is what people are doing to hit those 35k+ numbers, I'd assume
yours doesn't have full raid buffs on
mystic touch alone is 5%
onyx hedge
it isnt going to make up 5-10k dps
azure shoal
anyone else bought 100+ benthic pieces without a socket, i'm actually about to kms my self 
lime path
well why don't you run a full raid buff sim, get an accurate number, then we can revisit the issue :3
vapid scarab
you don't sim for a raid without having raid buffs enabled
you would be very surprised how much that all adds up
lime path
well the groups you're applying to will
onyx hedge
Yeah but only from first raid night and it was normal so i wasnt really trying becuase well its normal 😛
stuck knoll
Well BoD works too
lime path
then try next time and give good logs for us to help you with :3
can't help if we don't have a clear picture
and innacurate sims and minimal effort logs don't help paint a clear picture
stuck knoll
Also if you don’t have 55 neck yet run Lucid major
onyx hedge
yeah that is what im doing
lime path
yeah 55 neck is a nice breakpoint
onyx hedge
Doing Heroic Azshara right now so that is why im using focusing iris
Ima back out after this pull anyway ill come back with a good sim
Then ill just pug some random Normal/heroic and get at least 3 boss logs
slim estuary
Hi everyone, I'm a returning raider and a bit down on gear (385). Is any Benthic gear worth investing in for rogues
lime path
put on your ST gear and talents, put on lucid dream, and then sim with raid buffs enabled so we can see what your actually at
which you can do right now, without any logs
yes papa
check pins
slim estuary
Thanks amte 😃
onyx hedge
Nice 😛
lime path
still, 30k and 35k is a much smaller gap to contend with
onyx hedge
Fair enough, chip away at it until you get there 😃
thick galleon
Does turning away steath detection mobs with distract help anything?
onyx hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rpLSKfVaLXjutR4fczRJjq dps went down wtf????
lime path
stop simming for weights lol
and make sure your string is the right one
also you simmed with an intellect potion and intellect flask
onyx hedge
i changed that ....
lime path
that's what your report says homie
onyx hedge
Im not a fucking idiot i swear that was an accident lmao
lime path
not saying it was on purpose, just saying that not having the right flask and potion probably accounts for a decent chunk on a 5 min sim
have you also tried simming with subterfuge instead?
master assassin may not be the best talent for you
sim it
and focused resolve potion should be better than superior agi potion on ST
lime path
is your mainhand wepaon not enchanted?
lime path
numbers seem about where I'd expect them
once you have the right potions and flasks, enchants, and sim you'll be around 31-32k, and once you get lucid dream up to rank 3, plus more ilvls, and neck 55 for the minor slot for a dps spike
you'll be in the same ballpark as the other guys
onyx hedge
really??? lmao
Well i mean i play at least 5-10 hrs each day so time to stop focusing on alts and get to grinding
vapid scarab
I mean 55 at this point is hardly a grind
it's 1-2 hours of wq every day
then log off
there, even better now
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6c55VJCU2ZtBQgKe7FBywS
and yeah, you should be taking subterfuge instead of MA
flint star
Do you guys even use dungeon slice sim?
onyx hedge
@vapid scarab i have been told and 99% of the top parses are using MA with toxic blade ???
onyx hedge
hmm
vapid scarab
so what does it matter
tropic ocean
@onyx hedge you can just check it yourself 😄
vapid scarab
@flint star no, the way ass works it's very inaccurate
vapid scarab
dude just click the link that I gave you
onyx hedge
yeah didnt show on the last one
mental obsidian
whats the name of the bis wrists?
onyx hedge
Thankyou guys so much for helping didnt expect this much help haha 😃 thankyou all
good to know there are people around willing to help others 😄
mental obsidian
the frost dmg ones
spice cloak
ori's tidal wristwraps?
mental obsidian
k ty
plucky bay
Hi everyone, I got a small question regarding enchants and gems, on icyveins they state either crit or haste gems, whilst on wowhead they state only haste ones should be used. same thing with the wep echants on icy they go with deadly navig, whilst on wowhead they state you should use force multiplier. Although I do sometimes see people even using mastery gems and enchants aswell
Should I just sim what best and not follow any of these 2 guides?
spice cloak
log off icyveins lol
plucky bay
Hahah, that tells me alot about icyveins
spice cloak
link right at the top of the page for sin guide
vapid scarab
you should ALWAYS sim yourself instead of blindly following arbitrary stat weights for any spec
solid nova
Should I just sim?
Yes
solid nova
Guides assume generic weightings whereas the reality is everyone's stat weights, gems and enchant choices will vary
So always sim yourself for accuracy
plucky bay
Gotcha! will do
onyx hedge
Yo Sasquatch with the build you gave me i know how to run subterfuge im not stupid i just wanted ot ask what opener in general you would use and compare to mind, i becuase i have SS i would go, Garrote - Rupture - Garrote - Vendetta - Toxic blade - Mutilate - Envenom (if 4-5 cp) - Mutilate - Mutilate - envenom etc
Only hitting 40k burst with that hmm
golden plume
Hello
onyx hedge
sup
golden plume
Master assassin sims currently higher for me i was wondering how does it change my AoE pull and rotation
onyx hedge
I know for single target u want to vanish then toxic blade for the crit 😛 Single tar at least but u shouldnt be using master assas for AoE 😛
vapid scarab
you don't use MA for Aoe
onyx hedge
Subterfuge so i can get 4 Garrotes on targets
golden plume
well currently it sims higher even in aoe
onyx hedge
show us the sim
onyx hedge
it shoudnt
vapid scarab
unfortunate that you can't sim ass AoE
onyx hedge
...
meager nebula
dungeon slice isn't good for sin
onyx hedge
^
If you looking to do M+ as a rogue u should be using 3x Echoing blades dunno why you are not
vapid scarab
that isn't true
golden plume
i do m+ on the side but primarly raid this week and next
meager nebula
realistically you're going to have 2 completely different setups for raid and m+ as sin
topaz trout
should I reapply the razor coral debuff before cyclotronic or after? and I dont mean on the opener because I apply the coral debuff on opener
i was thinking after
golden plume
ok so i'll keep subtefurge+SS and switch when i'll go raiding
ty
have a nice day 😃
kindred cedar
When in the opener is a good idea to use the cyclo blast from mecha trinket?
vapid scarab
if=master_assassin_remains=0&!debuff.vendetta.up&!debuff.toxic_blade.up&buff.memory_of_lucid_dreams.down&energy<80&dot.rupture.remains>4
topaz trout
basically when MA, VEN, Toxic Blade and Lucid dreams aren't available or active and when rupture has more than 4 seconds remaining and your energy is less than 80
kindred cedar
So more or less -> Opener -> mecha trinket -> keep doing rotation
topaz trout
yeah
you'll do it about 25 seconds after your opener
or rather 25 seconds after pull
tropic ocean
well obviously if he has 0 ss traits
ma will sim higher yes
the traits in general except for eb are very bad for m+
elfin shoal
Soooo lads what am I doing wrong ? Here https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pf1rjF6BV1Yoqjk9R4myfE
Oh and ladies
I do use MA really
hot snow
Send help
lost horizon
Get benthic gear, cyclotron trinket w/lurkers is also pretty unreal
sullen pagoda
1 socket total also doesnt help
hot snow
I've been burning pearls like nothing else and not getting any procs
lost horizon
But post logs if you're looking to improve rotation and shit, gear is only part of it
@hot snow if you have alts, farm pearls on alts to send the pieces to your main
elfin shoal
@sullen pagoda yea dude not far off tank 2 and I have cyclo and lurks I'll epuip them but it doesn't sim much higher
lost horizon
Resim it
Yesterday there was an APL adjustment for cyclotron that caused issues
It's since been fixed
elfin shoal
Will do then I was wondering if it was my enchants or to much haste and not enough mastery
stable pine
whats the new weapon enchant for rogue?
hot snow
anyone willing to have a look over my logs and drop hard truths on me?
nocturne gate
@hot snow u can post it and if someone has time he/she will check
sullen pagoda
@hot snow i noticed u have mutilate casts 3x in a row sometimes
you are either standing infront of boss or overcapping
sullen pagoda
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZnkXAydhTVrW6GHB#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=1 on this log ur vanish was completely desynced from vendetta thats a HUGE No @hot snow
elfin shoal
@hot snow over cap on points it is safe to to use finishers on 4 points
hot snow
Yea that fight was a mess. Also out of practice 😦
elfin shoal
@hot snow is prob because it's all new and you don't know positioning yet it's fine though everyone does it
kindred cedar
You always want to save vanish for vendetta?
elfin shoal
Yea
hot snow
nah, normally I'm pretty good with positioning but I've been having some tearing recently I need to work out. I'm just concerned cause our other rogue plays outlaw and is doing a fuck tonne more
nocturne gate
its a huge burst
hot snow
and its not like he has a lot more ilvl 😐
elfin shoal
@hot snow it's because their are adds
sullen pagoda
on pure ST outlaw shouldnt be able to contest unless lucky with rolls
lost horizon
@kindred cedar with MA, make sure you're vanishing in vendetta
kindred cedar
Im specced into subterfuge
lost horizon
If subterfuge you can technically vanish before vendetta cause you'll still get full value
prisma creek
hay, quick question, can someone with a bit of time and understanding of scaling talk to me private real quick? cause I cant wrap my head around some facts and why they scale out that way (around azerite traits, and essences)
lost horizon
23sec on full pandemic garrote, 20sec on vendetta
elfin shoal
single target on boss I bet you smash him though? If any adds are up he will best you but boss damage you should be way higher @hot snow
kindred cedar
@tropic ocean you wrote "on ma u dont want to vendetta after vanish
so vanish > vendetta"
you said i dont want to vendetta after vanish, then u told me to vendetta after vanish? 👀
hot snow
Cleave I struggle with a lot. I definitely smash in my opener but can't seem to maintain very well
tropic ocean
@kindred cedar I told you you dont want to vendetta after vanish
junior flume
Vendetta breaks stealth as far as i remember
tropic ocean
cuz vanish is bigger than vendetta
kindred cedar
Ah so vendetta then vanish ?
tropic ocean
and if u vendetta after vanish u lose time of the buff
kindred cedar
when pairing? i specced into MA now to as sim showed it was slightly better
tropic ocean
you will always want to vendetta before vanish
kindred cedar
ah cool
tropic ocean
so u can fit maximum dps gcd into ma window
nocturne gate
@hot snow probably sim ur gear again u also use old sockets and if im not fully blind double quick navigation ?!
kindred cedar
do i want to aim to get a envenom in after the vanish?
or whats the plan ?
Vendetta -> Vanish -> ?
lost horizon
Tb window
kindred cedar
ah so i want to pair it with TB
hot snow
shouldn't be double, I can see deadly + quick?
lost horizon
BotE makes it dirty af
hot snow
I don't have a lot of azerite so I'm pretty limited with traits
nocturne gate
on abyssal only quick navigation show up in buffs
hot snow
Interesting on the chants though. I defeinitely have two different chants on my weapons
placid dawn
dude, 260 pearls on boots and not a single socketed one
hot snow
300 and 1 socket on a shit pair
green ledge
will you get mad at me if i say i got them day 1 in one the quests?
keen spruce
So with Lucid Dreams, haste loses a lot of value right?
I'm assuming sims aren't 100% atm but mastery and crit stacking seem to be giving way better numbers than haste
elfin shoal
@keen spruce this is what I need to know to
keen spruce
I basically dropped from 23% haste to 14% and the numbers are looking a lot better
and you're really not getting starved out that often
lost horizon
If you're using it as a major maybe
But raid essence will overtake it as major anyways
keen spruce
well yeah i mean you should be using it as your major
elfin shoal
@keen spruce I'm at 20 haste so best I lose a bit then
lost horizon
Not if you have bote rank 3
keen spruce
can you even get rank 3 yet?
hot snow
I thought we were only using it until we unlocked minor essences?
lost horizon
Yeah, people got it within a couple days
keen spruce
the quest for the first rank was bugged for me the first week
lost horizon
BotE is from BG honour not rated
You can progress the other ranks without getting rank1
keen spruce
oh well i guess i'm gonna go torture myself in bgs
elfin shoal
Are we still using BotE as minor ?
lost horizon
Unless you're willing to commit for rank3 before next week, don't bother imo
keen spruce
rank 3 lucid still beats out rank 3 bote though right?
lost horizon
Not as major
vapid scarab
in sims yes, in actual fights not really
lost horizon
Rank 2 -> rank 3 lucid only buffs the minor
vapid scarab
I mean, that has nothing to do with anything
keen spruce
why's bloodmallet so off then
vapid scarab
r2 blood also only buffs the minor
elfin shoal
So BotE major lucid minor ?
lost horizon
What
vapid scarab
bloodmallet is not off
lost horizon
Rank 3 blood buffs the shit out of the major @vapid scarab
vapid scarab
keen spruce
why is bloodmallet saying that you're getting another 1100 dps for rank 3 lucid major
junior flume
Aren't we going to be running Life -> Lucid -> Vein (if there are vein people)
keen spruce
when it only buffs the minor
vapid scarab
because the minor is good?
vapid scarab
@elfin shoal sim your character
keen spruce
oh does the major bars include the minor that comes with it
that would make more sense
lost horizon
But until the life force major is available at rank3 bote is really good
modest tendon
Which essences do you think are best for KR and ToS? Most people take 3xSS because of the small pulls, what do you think would complement the damage of SS the most?
keen spruce
echoing blades is still good for anything bigger than 4 packs
vapid scarab
iris or bote
vapid scarab
KR
modest tendon
As major?
vapid scarab
yes
modest tendon
Interesting
modest tendon
What for minor then? Lucid or blood?
keen spruce
I was running lucid today
purification protocol will give a little more aoe
blood is good
if your tank and dps are all running worldvein maybe that
topaz trout
use_item,name=ashvanes_razor_coral,if=debuff.razor_coral_debuff.down|debuff.vendetta.remains>10|target.time_to_die<20 use_item,name=pocketsized_computation_device,if=master_assassin_remains=0&!debuff.vendetta.up&!debuff.toxic_blade.up&buff.memory_of_lucid_dreams.down&energy<80&dot.rupture.remains>4
Im assuming this means usee razor coral if debuff on target is not active, always before using the computation device
kindred cedar
Dont i want "While in Nazjatar or the Eternal Palace, your spells and abilities have a chance to send out droplets which heal allies or deal Frost damage to enemies." those gloves with a socket aswell?
tropic ocean
Not sure you will run iris
kindred cedar
Pin only says feet, wrist and waist
keen spruce
yeah those are good
tropic ocean
When protocol can 1shot mobs
hot snow
So are we all running SS and echoing blades in m+ ?
keen spruce
pretty sure
tropic ocean
and ttk
keen spruce
echoing blades isn't as good as last season cuz of smaller pulls
tropic ocean
Many ttk
steady grotto
many ttk??
tropic ocean
yes
steady grotto
just for beguiling mobs?
steady grotto
you don't want dd and eb together
steady grotto
i didn't play sin in m+ last season
keen spruce
I don't think many people did lol
hot snow
I'm being forced to play outlaw in m+ at the moment but I would rather not have to get multiple gear sets
lost horizon
You don't mut trash, ttk has been good for priority dmg
keen spruce
makes sense
steady grotto
i'm gonna have to have a play i gues
lost horizon
You're gonna have multiple gear sets anyways @hot snow
keen spruce
would you take ttk over eb?
tropic ocean
sometimes yes
vapid scarab
in some cases/dungeons
tropic ocean
Sometimes no
hot snow
Yea but its easier to swap a few pieces
lost horizon
M+ traits are pretty different than raid traits for sin
keen spruce
so if you're not energy capping in raid, why would bote out perform lucid?
someone said lucid is better in theory but not in practice
it's simming like 500 dps higher than bote
keen spruce
bloodmallet has it 500 dps higher
vapid scarab
it sims higher for me with both at r3
keen spruce
I'm running low haste right now so I'd imagine it'd be simliar for me
lost horizon
Tbh I wouldn't put blind faith in bloodmallet
keen spruce
but yeah i can see the hero windows mucking things up
you'd have to just delay first cast for a while
vapid scarab
I said lucid tends to sim better than it actually performs in raids because you often have secondary targets for excess energy from venomous wounds, it can make using lucid very difficult not to overcap/waste
royal lantern
bloodmallet is good too get a direction, but its always better too do stuff based on your own gear ofc
lost horizon
It's possible it's just my stats+trinkets affecting it, but bote is slamming for me
tropic ocean
its slamming for many
keen spruce
yeah I mean i dumped most of my haste of of my gear for lucid
so i'm not really energy capping much even with 2-3 targets
royal lantern
@vapid scarab i dont REALLY agree with that cus its always a huge setup too actually gain energy out of multi dotting for sin
tropic ocean
i mean if you take top logs as a reference theres many combinations
royal lantern
walking, generating CP, keep both bleeds up etc.....
we are not locks/spriest that can multidot with 1 button and no setup at all
keen spruce
basically none
tropic ocean
(that you‘d waste time on by multidotting)
in zaqul u cleave adds
They have prio anyway
keen spruce
same with azshara
tropic ocean
in court its just 2 target anyway
In ashvane u cleave bubbles which have prio
In orgoza u cleave adds that have prio
vapid scarab
I mean the point is when you have near infinite energy from multidotting, what does lucid even bring
topaz trout
vers buff
vapid scarab
you run the minor regardless
tropic ocean
And a big d vendetta window
keen spruce
I'd probably just be running outlaw on Zaq and ashara anyways
and i'm not energy capping on 2-3 targets
for other fights
tropic ocean
dont think outlaw is good for azshara
tropic ocean
at least not in progress
topaz trout
bote for me
keen spruce
it's a little redundant on azshara cuz you're just going to run focusing iris anyways
and insta killing adds
tropic ocean
😂😂😂😂😂
vapid scarab
I mean no
you only want so many people in the raid running that
otherwise it defeats the purpose
topaz trout
dont really think a sin should be running focusing iris if they have better
lost horizon
Honestly imo lucid major just feels janky
keen spruce
the guilds I saw kill it this week had like 10 melee running it
topaz trout
its not your job
tropic ocean
😂😂😂😂
lost horizon
If I didn't have bote / it wasn't simming higher I'd play it but yuck
keen spruce
it's a little weird with vendetta
cuz you're delaying lucid for a few seconds to avoid capping
and it get's kind of janky with hero
but it's nice to have adrenaline rush during those downtimes
lost horizon
BotE major lucid minor sims 1.2k higher than if I swap em for me
rigid mango
Bote minor is v meh tho
lost horizon
But there is yes @keen spruce
rigid mango
The major sorta carries afaik
lost horizon
Edit the simC string
lost horizon
Where you see equipped and available azerite
tropic ocean
But the major is the big
lost horizon
It'll be like 27:2
wild glen
does anyone know what blood of the enemy rank 3 does as major ? cant find that on wowhead and i dont have rank 2 so it doesnt show me
lost horizon
Where 27 indicates the essence, the 2 is the rank
keen spruce
27 being lucid?
lost horizon
So figure out which corresponds with the right essences (there's an index list in simC documentation under azerite)
No clue, I don't have them memorized
keen spruce
kk i'll poke around thx
lost horizon
@wild glen 25% Crit dmg buff for 5 sec
tropic ocean
@wild glen it gives 25% crit dmg
lost horizon
On top of regular rank2 effects
wild glen
Thx thats pretty big
but the rank 2 seems kinda meh, i guess u still wanna keep it for vendetta
rigid mango
Yes, that's what makes bote r3 so good
tropic ocean
They nerfed it to 5s?
rigid mango
The dmg ye
tropic ocean
wasnt it like 15s
rigid mango
The crit is still 10 sec
tropic ocean
😂
lost horizon
Crit dmg is only 5 unfortunately
keen spruce
squawkk where can I find the list?
rigid mango
Ages ago
wild glen
is it just me or the rank 2 with 25% cd reduction is completely useless
rigid mango
Pretty
lost horizon
@keen spruce https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/bfa-dev/engine/dbc/generated lucky I had the link posted somewhere else recently
wild glen
u dont use it without vendetta anyways
rigid mango
Idd
keen spruce
thanks fam
lost horizon
It's under azerite
rigid mango
I cba grinding it
wild glen
ye
lost horizon
Consistent 80k openers feelsgoodman
rigid mango
Aye sounds litty
lost horizon
Plus first week had bonus honour for the weekly event
wild glen
so do 10 bgs per day for 10 days
lost horizon
So it wasn't bad
rigid mango
I'm gonna grind it and wait for imminent life fotce nerfs 👀
vestal wren
i have the id's of most essences linked in the #tc-research pin
vapid scarab
It’s pretty chill if you just do the daily wins for ap
gameplay
lost horizon
Aight proper patchwerk sim has bote 700dps ahead of lucid for me
vapid scarab
Yeah but you kill 2 birds with 1 stone
wild glen
yeah its very time consuming but u do like 80k burst on ST
rigid mango
That gets replaced in a couple weeks
wild glen
with rank 3
lost horizon
I'm just praying for life force nerfs LOL
woven summit
Why Squawkk?
rigid mango
Same, sorta
lost horizon
Life force sounds like shit to use
rigid mango
It looks lame af
lost horizon
Such a boring essence
rigid mango
It's not fun at all
woven summit
You want lucid?
rigid mango
Summon pet that has nothing to do with sin
woven summit
More enjoyable
rigid mango
To pump numbers
woven summit
Or maybe Flame or Blood
rigid mango
No, bote sounds good
woven summit
Bote?
sullen pagoda
yea life force sounds shit to play with
rigid mango
Blood of the enemy
woven summit
Ah right
sullen pagoda
flame is also kind of shit gameplay
rigid mango
= bote
sullen pagoda
click this button to do some dmg
woven summit
Right
sullen pagoda
yea
woven summit
You used the acronym
obtuse surge
Hey guys. I have seen a lot of people move away from subtefuge. What do you guys think about it
keen spruce
@lost horizon how much haste do you have?
rigid mango
It's not like any ess is giga fun 
keen spruce
@obtuse surge MA always outperformed subterfuge on ST. but a lot of good pieces had SS so you were forced into Subterfuge
lost horizon
1300 I believe
rigid mango
It's easier to go into SS than it is full MA
keen spruce
@lost horizon yeah blood 3 vs lucid 3 are basically the same for me
lost horizon
Tbh I'm liking them, but maybe I'm just having a good time with bote LOOL
keen spruce
around 900 haste
rigid mango
woven summit
Is the mechagon trinket any good? Need to sim it but im not home playing.
keen spruce
default currently
woven summit
Really? I'll sim it
rigid mango
Very.
lost horizon
I'm using cyclo+lurkers
rigid mango
But 2 raid trinks are better I think
woven summit
The one from the two gnomes that drops
rigid mango
Wot
keen spruce
yeah 5 dps difference 
lost horizon
Idk if azshara trinket is implemented well rn
rigid mango
Azshara trink is nutty it seems
lost horizon
At 430 it sims lower than my lurker which makes me think it's implemented weird
keen spruce
openers are insane with it
wild glen
btw guys, how do you sim for example rank 3 blood of the enemy if i got rank 1 right now? can u sim that through raidbots?
keen spruce
it doesn't break stealth 
rigid mango
So I assume it's scuffed in sims
lost horizon
@wild glen scroll up, I explained it
wild glen
kk
lost horizon
Fuu also mentioned that the essence IDs are pinned in #tc-research
keen spruce
the 3 is the rank
woven summit
WoW is science
lost horizon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eMwVXiZTm5wMfdiQ4VFSmd need to swap some gems/enchants but
BotE goes ham
Also haven't upgraded my wrists don't flame
keen spruce
don't the frost wrists sim higher?
woven summit
@lost horizon How much do you sim with lucid major?
lost horizon
They do but the difference isn't insane
sullen pagoda
@lost horizon i wouldnt upgrade those
they sim nice but in reality oooooooooooof
if u go on my logs i used them this week at 415
they legit did 50k every boss
rigid mango
Ye frost are much better
lost horizon
@woven summit it's in the top gear, click the link
sullen pagoda
rigid mango
Puffer are mad inconsistant
lost horizon
Ugh that's annoying, I've been rolling for frosties but was gonna settle cause no luck
wild glen
Isnt waste to go MA with bote or ? @lost horizon
lost horizon
The physical dmg one I have 4-5 of em socketed
keen spruce
i've spent a lot of pearls on writs
haven't seen any frosties
let alone socketed ones
sullen pagoda
i spent like 300 on getting frost
then i gave up upgraded 3s delay one
and i get frost socketed from wq
🔫
woven summit
@lost horizon Ah yeah, thanks.
sullen pagoda
i just gave up on 3s one using 445 i got lucky with
until i get enough pearls to upgrade frost ones
lost horizon
Man
Those are wrists are depressing
It legit seems like there's a cap on their dmg/procs cause like
They had nearly identically dogshit numbers on every fight
I guess my pearl grind continues
sullen pagoda
lost horizon
I'm pretty sure I'm 300+ into wrists, maybe more
sullen pagoda
i got boots on 1st try and belt of 2nd
sullen pagoda
just struggled with wrists
lost horizon
Honestly I might be closer to 500-600 into wrists
Cause I've been funneling from 4 alts yikes
woven summit
Are you all here hardcore mythic raiding assassins?
lost horizon
Far from hardcore myself, but there's plenty around who are
sullen pagoda
yea not really hardcore just regular mythic raiders
lost horizon
CE in last ~month of the tier for me
olive tulip
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lost horizon
My raid is pretty casual but good people
sullen pagoda
man my warlock got so many hc pieces yday in alt hc GM was suggesting if i want to reroll warlock 
lost horizon
sullen pagoda
i told him im pepega when playing alts so that aint happening XD
onyx hedge
ye
woven summit
Good talk
sullen pagoda
legit every time i die on alt i forgot some defensives they have
my warlock is 418 and i forgot to put demonic circle in bars
onyx hedge
.....
woven summit
You wont forget if its your main
sullen pagoda
junior flume
Am I simming this wrong or what on earth is going on? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3pUzcwCdrbfQHwrw5jgx43
Wanted to check the difference between yellow punchcards but even 2nd best is 1.8k lower than what I have, which seems... off
fallen sapphire
Guys I've been spending pearls on trying to get the correct bit of gear have a socket with no luck (probably 80 Pearl's spent). Should I give up on this? Is it just going to be nerfed? Just wanted your thoughts!
*Benthic
scarlet sequoia
a bit weak to wanna give up after 80 pearls mate
signal salmon
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
scarlet sequoia
just do intro quests on your alts if you have any and send the benthic tokens to your main
solid nova
Im 300+ pearls fishing for wrists
junior flume
I hate those wrists
solid nova
Not sure why you'd give up when pearls are gained from wq/passive stuff
Even if they get nerfed, its still 425 with socket
and socket value is huge
fallen sapphire
Ok I'll persue it then, I work full time and have a wife so unfortunately don't have tons of time!
junior flume
Nevermind my question.... I'm a moron 😄 found the error
placid dawn
i spent 260 pearls today trying for boots
all sockets went on shit mount speed boots
vernal fern
damn so many people spamming Iris on packs with mixed hp mobs and giving 5 bolstering stacks
just to show "big dick dps" 
placid dawn
would it be more worth to upgrade boots without socket to 415 or keep fishing for socket?
vernal fern
Go for socket
not worth upgrading without it, but damn 260 pearls and no socket piece is FeelsBadMan
junior flume
I'm approaching that for the wrist too, the other ones were kinder to me but the wrists hate me
placid dawn
im pretty salty about it:/
strange python
Is there a way to macro Ashvane's to not need to think about it?
cold rampart
what are best 2 cards for mechagon trinket?
junior flume
Cyclo blats and statweights that fit you from what I know
cold rampart
thx
south horizon
is there a list somewhere of how different benthic pieces sim? curious if any of these benthic bracers with socket that arent frost dmg are close enough to be worth it
meager nebula
you can sim them in gear compare
solid nova
Can use gear compare
amber sun
can someone tell me when best to use the focused azerite beam?
does it get buffed by vendetta?
stable yarrow
did EB get nerfed yesterday? o .O feels alot weaker
marble hemlock
nope
kindred cedar
Is there any 8.2 azerite BiS list available? that includes dungeons/mechagon aswell as raid?
marble hemlock
pulls are just much smaller than they were with reaping
kindred cedar
only found a bis list for raids
marble hemlock
so you dont get the big EB value in a bolstering week, since you rarely pull enough mobs to get max-echoes per FoK
better off running SS over EB this week honestly
stable yarrow
Hmm yeah makes sense
wild glen
Is playing EB better with bote then focused azerite beam ?
then bote better*
seems more ideal with bote
kindred cedar
can i simulate different cards for the trinket? and if yes, how do i do it ?
arctic walrus
Gear compare
modest tendon
what stats does garrote scale best with? is it still crit mastery for m+?
like if your going for a specific ss build might haste be better?
arctic walrus
Each yellow card has a unique name, you just have to look it up
kindred cedar
Yeah im aware of that
i know the name of the card
but cant find it
Its the red card: Subroutine: Overclock im trying to find
stable yarrow
If u're doing gear compare, u have to search for the Pocket-Sized first
arctic walrus
It's at the top of the list for me
stable yarrow
then u choose the cards from the lists
arctic walrus
kindred cedar
ye got it 😄 thanks
was checking how good the haste red gem was subroutine one
if it would be better then cyclo
cold rampart
what is the best benthic armor for each gear?
flint star
Should I use Toxic Blade even with 5 CP?
cold rampart
@flint star yes
arctic walrus
@cold rampart #wow-general pins
rigid pasture
got a bigger version?
cold rampart
indeed
steady grotto
Are benthic crit boots without socket still worth levelling?
calm wedge
Do you guys have a method to know what rotation is used when we run a raidbot simulation ? I have this but i dont understand why subterfuge is better than master assassin without shrouded suffocation
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jwkiP6JzSJFiVm3zx8aiWP
arctic walrus
Put it on nightly instead of weekly
distant lava
you can run a quick sim with a setup ( the 3 little dots on the side)
and the quick sim shows you the spellcasts
tiny arrow
The abberation belt is also quite nice
short crypt
How do you use the ashvane's razor coral at it's best?
south horizon
got pufferfish wrists with socket, reckon its worth the grind to go for the frost damage, or are those two pretty close?
small crypt
@short crypt I've ran a few sims and the simulation just used it permanently for its highest damage outpot
like all 20 secs
not giving any safecalls if this is the best way to go, but thats what my simulation was like
arctic walrus
Puffer and frost are like ~70 dmg difference
south horizon
might save my sanity and just level these ones up then
small crypt
@calm wedge i tried simming myself with top gear and i got the same results. More dmg with subterfuge but without any ss traits
weird
calm wedge
Yeah
it was fixed with the nightly built tho
but still weird
Same, i sim higher without any Nothing Personal trait, but usually we play with at least one right ?
small crypt
since its only 100 dmg i'll still play with ma but if you want to try with sub without ss i'd say just do double garrote to get the max out of the 80% dmg increase and then play normally like with ma
weird things are happening
if you check out bloodmallet, bis trait changed to blightborne suddenly
crisp steppe
reckon its worth considering whether fight timings work for subterfuge if its purely ST. do you still get same amount of vendettas with vanish
rigid pasture
bloodmallet is missing some of the junkyard trinkets too, trying to figure them out for myself atm
fierce oak
what consumables are we using now ?
inner tree
hey sims aren't out yet but do you think https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=170273/oxidized-refuse-remover&bonus=1537#comments will be good with the 200% buff ?
cosmic prism
is it worth getting punch cards for rogue?
tropic ocean
yes
neat pecan
tropic ocean
cuz its higher single target
strange python
I wish it simmed higher for me 😦
sudden shell
if you have SS subterfuge will sim higher
strange python
Ahh I run double SS
Is there a way to macro Ashvane's where I just don't have to think about it?
inner tree
seems like a bad idea to macro this trinket
strange python
tbh I don't really understand how to use it; pop in opener and use again on next Vendetta for the crit, use once Vendetta over to start gaining stacks again?
inner tree
i don't have it but yea seems to be awkward to use for your opener
strange python
I mean, you want the dmg from it and start building stacks asap no?
inner tree
is there a cap for the stacks ?
strange python
No idea tbh
inner tree
maybe the optimal play is to not convert it at all with how many crit sources we have with pot MA and things like bote you're already near 100% crit for your burst
could be different if you play with subt
idk
sterile tinsel
Does anyone know how seli was able to get a number 2 parse by popping lucid as opener? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AwbJWBYN2GCgrZKD#fight=1&type=casts&source=14&view=timeline
strange python
Lucid Major at T3 doesn't even sim that high for me, sims want me to run Flame major at Rank 2
placid dawn
52% crit on envenom
crazy crit values there
best red card is cyclonic
you can buy it for 1.5k gold in mechagon
Cyclotronic Blast
winter pecan
yeah its on use effect right?
vestal wren
256 gold you mean
inner tree
does't shock me with lucid major you kinda have to gem full crit/mast
winter pecan
i have [Lurker's Insidious Gift] thats why i am asking
winter pecan
okay thank you
small thicket
Vendetta doesnt effect azerite beam either right?
winter pecan
which new enchant are we using aswell ?? 😛
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock https://i.imgur.com/GLNPkFn.png pls explain my head hurt
bleak spoke
oh
bleak spoke
ohhhh okay
marble hemlock
😃
so yeah
that couldve been a much better pull dps-wise
if that didnt happen 😄
bleak spoke
big unlucky
marble hemlock
if you have enough people running it, ye
distant lava
but why did I farm blood r3 then if stupid r2 from islands is better 
bleak spoke
man blood minor is terrible
proud needle
When I saw that, I was like "it's a new meta for pulling as assa... I need to train that to be a genius too"
proud needle
marble hemlock
because i didnt expect to get pulled out of stealth from the debuff application
proud needle
Did you received my PM btw ? 😄
bleak spoke
ah
inner tree
just simed myself with ashvane coral and the bot use it at pull one time and only reactivate it for second vendetta
lone mirage
Is anyone else do shit overall on m+ or it is just me? Do i switch to outlaw?
bleak spoke
how much crit did it have by then
inner tree
then he only reuses it 1mn30 later weird
bleak spoke
is it aiming for a certain crit %
inner tree
idk but not reactivating it after you lose the crit buff seems like trolling
unless i didn't understand how it works exactly
nvm i'm blind
he uses it for burst and reactivate it just after vendetta
inner tree
yes
he uses trinket the gdc after vendetta
every time
except at pull where he just activate it for the first time
makes sense since you won't have any stacks at pull so don't bother
then use it for vendetta and reuse it when vendetta over
arctic walrus
So after first vendetta you only use coral during vendetta and not on cd?
inner tree
that's what the bot do at least
strange python
So you're saying I could just macro it to Vendetta? It would apply the debuff on first Vendetta, then swap to the crit buff for the second, would just need to hit the bind again after Vendetta was over?
arctic walrus
Can you link the sim
strange python
No gcd on Ashvane's
inner tree
does it share cd with other on use ?
like if i have cyclo trinket will it put it on the 20sec cd if I use ashvane's
strange python
Yeah it does share CD
inner tree
might be janky with azshara trinket then
maiden flare
Hi, all. Who are using Potion of Unbridled Fury in new raid? and on azshara heroic?
buoyant kraken
Hi guys, how come my envenom crits are so low compared to other rogues? i see some rogue critting for 85-90k. Here is a recent log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BL3bpgdGqArjMRva/#fight=last&type=damage-done
arctic walrus
Private
buoyant kraken
oh 2 sec
strange python
I am using Resolve pots @maiden flare
buoyant kraken
should be public now @arctic walrus
maiden flare
@strange python pots for 20% crit?
strange python
yup
arctic walrus
Focused resolve is a 300 dmg decrease over Unbridled lol
inner tree
90k crit on envenom is when you use bote essence
i use it and my max env on sivara was 100k
arctic walrus
@buoyant kraken lacking bote and lurkers
buoyant kraken
@arctic walrus do they really add like 30k on my crits?
nimble tartan
When raidbots says let simc decide it’s really just saying whatever the default is in the profile. It doesn’t automatically figure out the bis for you
So if you really want to be sure what’s your best food/pot u should force sim them to find out
buoyant kraken
ok ty
sullen hollow
Whats the better benthic pieces for assa
dark crag
Boots with socket
tropic ocean
sullen hollow
unlucky
quasi pewter
focused resolve was fixed in simc 2 days ago, unbridled fury is the go-to pot for single target
buoyant kraken
@arctic walrus what is bote?
arctic walrus
Blood of the enemy, pvp essence
arctic walrus
whatever sims best for u
karmic sonnet
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tribal marlin
Note that Worldvein can loose a lot of value if you have any kind of displacement during the encounter
Also I don't like Major Lucid because it's reliable to high uptime and you'll loose a lot of dmg comparing to bote if you have to move out of melee range during it
bleak spoke
man like most of these fights you stick to the bosses really easily though
only fight with much downtime is azshara it feels
okay wow rank 3 lucid is large and in charge @ripe nimbus u were right https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qdhQQBavMYUFXVNHtu6ihX
arctic walrus
r3 lucid was 1k increase for me
arctic walrus
Gotta grind 20k honor before tuesday
wild glen
Yo guys, probably frequently asked question but is there a list somewhere on the best benthic pieces?
for (sin rogues) ofc
arctic walrus
If only there was a place in the discord where important information is easily found
ripe nimbus
yah rank 3 is yuuuuge
cobalt pelican
the vers buff from lucid has like
70% uptime or something stupid
so it's basically just FREE vers
quasi pewter
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dmBXgixdkk8EELv7KFxPEd crit weight so high that bbi>1np
rapid aurora
hey guys stats should be haste crit mastery vers right? when i sim myself with the stats that i have im feeling that they want me to get crit haste mastery vers
cuz now my crit is higher than haste and they still want me to get crits
cobalt pelican
i hope tos tay in a world where my crit weight is so high i can just leave it on all my gear
and have 50% crit in m+
rapid aurora
damn
fossil crag
is it possible to 4 garrote with subterfuge or it's only a wet dream?
ashen oriole
so ...for m+ assa or outlaw?
vestal carbon
cobalt pelican
it's '''okay'''
tiny arrow
the 445 engi head should be 2nd bis
cobalt pelican
it comes with the perk that the only alternative better ones are either
2100 rating in arena
or mythic 7th boss
vital raptor
Akana's Reefstrider Footwraps are the boots im looking for right?
onyx rock
They are super strong even without a Socket
vital raptor
ok nice i got one with a socket on my third token
bleak spoke
unfortunately i spent all my pearls trying to get socketed ones
onyx rock
Lucky you
bleak spoke
:^)
vital raptor
dam
tiny arrow
I got it after 250ish pearls
cobalt pelican
i got mine by accident before even knowing what i was rolling for
tiny arrow
Got lucky with belt tho, I got it from drop.
cobalt pelican
not had much luck since though
vital raptor
what belt should i be looking for?
onyx rock
I just gave up. I upgraded my none socket ones and now i passive roll for Socket ones over the next days/weeks
cobalt pelican
seems inefficient