Just whenever you're pooling
#assassination
rigid mango
stray imp
Ok will sim it when I'm at home thanks
slender smelt
how many ilvls are trinkets worth btw?
solid nova
As many as your sim tells you
rigid mango
Don't think it's worth a set amount
solid nova
Theres no general XYZ value
rigid mango
it's a good trinket, that's about it
slender smelt
on a piece of gear. non rings/trinkets
rigid mango
Other pieces, about 15 ish afaik
It also depends though, socketed legs are worth less than socketed wrists
Etc
Sims should reflect how much they're worth 😄
untold current
Is there an specific amount of energy we want punch card at? Like low 40/50?
rigid mango
Just aslong as you're not doing anything
It'
It's sorta like using lucid major I suppose
Use when there's down time
celest swan
another question to the potions. how exactly does proximity work, is it 360 basleine and another 360 for evne one target?
rigid mango
But yeah, low 40-50 if now lower energy
solid nova
The current usage in the APL is less than 80 energy
When TB, Lucid and Vendetta are not up
And rupture is rolling
For the trinket after nerf
rigid mango
Proximity?
celest swan
potion of empowered proximity
rigid mango
You were saying right shit tho @solid nova
solid nova
Yeah ik 
rigid mango
solid nova
celest swan
it is recommended mate
rigid mango
Since I've barely seen people talking about it
celest swan
at 3 targets or more
but its sems really sueless desingwise if its already better then normal agility with 3 targets presents
"For potions you have to choose depending on the situation. Potion of Focused Resolve is the pick for single target. Superior Battle potion of Agility is better on two targets. For three targets you want to use a Potion of Empowered Proximity."
From ravenholdt
vestal wren
i assume you are fine with the old pots for heroic
celest swan
ye that doesnt amtter jsut for theorycrafting
but interesting seli is using normal agi in m+
vestal wren
wowhead guide has the best pots/flasks/etc linked
celest swan
sim wise its only good for 2 targets
dude 😄
u kidding me right, wowhead says the same i ask how that works
@marble hemlock any statement from u? i would guess u use proximity potion on m+ msot of the time, cause 2 targets are pretty rare and guide/sim-wise proximity beats regular agility on 3 targets
inner tree
cba using 3 differents pots are u kidding me
vestal wren
it scales with targets, 3 is the trashhold
celest swan
ye i know that
vestal wren
seli is probably just using it bc. they are cheaper
celest swan
if its already better at 3 targets?
vestal wren
yes
celest swan
and my initial question was if it gives 360 flat and another 360 per target
so its already 720 at 1 target
or if the "further increased" is a compeltely different number
vestal wren
celest swan
ye saw that aswell
but that says its worht at 4 targets
what woudlb eright do to math
why guides and sim it is already better at 3
that would mean the first target alresady gives u stats
OR the number per target isnt 360
u get wha tim asking now^^
casue 3x 360 isnt more the normal agi
vestal wren
ye should be 4+ maybe
marble hemlock
im just using up my old stash of agi pots
ill probably keep using those due to price
and then use proximity or greater agi for actual pushing
ripe nimbus
The new pots arnt even expensive at least not on my server
celest swan
testet it right now in nazjatar
vestal wren
@hollow wraith this is still speculation as far as i know
celest swan
its 1080 on 3 targets
marble hemlock
270 for greater agi
celest swan
so guides and raidbots are wrong?
inner tree
my serv 400 for agi ones 800 for the other ...
celest swan
when i sim 3 targets its already better then superior agi
marble hemlock
so if one dies or gets out of range, you lose some agi
celest swan
so probably superior agi is a better for msot of the time?
ripe nimbus
@vestal wren prob doesn't hurt not doing it tho
celest swan
but still can i contact raidbots or stuff or do i miss somehting
inner tree
i mean you can't go wrong with agi pot that's that
marble hemlock
its gonna be greater agi on st and <=3 targets, on >=4 its gonna be prox
celest swan
@surreal torrent i write in the wowhead guide on 3+ u have any other reason for that, else its wrong isnt it?
surreal torrent
@celest swan yeah, just read that. I'll update it shortly, it is based on a false scaling assumption using targets instead of additional targets. thanks for pointing it out!
inner tree
make sense with protocol minor ?
surreal torrent
(simc has been wrong too in that regard but will likely be fixed soon)
marble hemlock
thats what im running rn, ye
blood minor is fine too
you basically have perma uptime on the haste on aoe, which isnt too terrible
but if you have a grp that benefits from it, running worldvein minor on everyone might be the play
celest swan
u think u setup will stay this going into s3
marble hemlock
impossible to say, were gonna have to play s3 and see what works best
inner tree
do you feel blood or protocol major would be good too ? or the difference is just too great
marble hemlock
theyd be better for aoe, while lucid is incredibly strong on singletarget with that build
celest swan
kk, since so many people look at u anyways u considered writing a guide for ravneholdt or something for m+?
marble hemlock
so it might be a fortified vs tyrannical thing
rotund mural
hey guys, do i sim as dungeon slice (beta) or hectic add cleave for m+ dps?
rigid mango
Just tune into his stream 
marble hemlock
i do plan on eventually writing a guide once ive come to my conclusions what is "best", was hoping @solar rose would join me 😃
inner tree
ok so on tyrannical that would be lucid major with deeper 3ttk and what other azerite ?
rigid mango
Seli flawless guide? 
vestal wren
just write "just play outlaw" as an opener scentence
rigid mango
1 ss 2 eb
stuck knoll
Hahahahaha
marble hemlock
well frankly it would depend on the new scaling and everything
celest swan
i already like outlaw cuase it only needs 1 Potion!!!!
marble hemlock
it might just be that we want more st to save time on fortified, while we want more burst aoe on tyrannical due to trash not being as long-living
celest swan
thats a huge benefit 😄
inner tree
yea i wonder if outlaw would still be the way for fortified
spice surge
What, why would outlaw only want 1 potion
solid nova
celest swan
cause the focused resolve potion
marble hemlock
assa usually doesnt struggle on trash-dps on fortified
solar rose
After mythic prog I can see what I can do, been wanting to do one
spice surge
Well sure, whenever focus resolve works properly
rigid mango
It does
I tested it yesterday
Worked without an issue, full 20% no stealth breaking
marble hemlock
im guessing as long as outlaw doesnt swap targets, they keep the buff up
rigid mango
seems fixed
marble hemlock
or maybe even if they do, idk
spice surge
It didnt when i tested it after the pocket hotfix last night 🤔
rigid mango
Also @celest swan focused resolve isn't even that good for outlaw
spice surge
Well then its good i guess
celest swan
sry looked in the guide it says focused
i havne tismmed the old pots myself
ah nvm u mena unbridled fury
lethal seal
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
mighty elm
is this actually the opening sequence
APL is using
thought getting bote in with vanish was yuge
spice surge
Its not
solar rose
Pretty sure it’s been changed in every way and it’s equal to just use during tb and vendetta window
mighty elm
thats with rank3 aswell tho
spice surge
If you're using MA during bote you're overcapping crit
tribal marlin
IF you are using Crit POT
spice surge
And the +crit damage isnt the powerful part of bote
vestal wren
i think Mikihisa posted some sims with priority changes for bote in #tc-research
mighty elm
would put me at 100% exactly without any procs
which is why i thought its how youd do it
neat storm
hey guys, is there a BiS list for Benthic Gear?
mighty elm
50% from MA, 25 from bote 25% stats
tribal marlin
Yes that's why it's no win tu use Vanish with Seething Rage. I tested yesterday and with Agility pot it's a win to use Vanish with Seething Rage.
celest swan
@rigid mango ur kinda right fury sims higher st, resolve takes over from 3 targets onwards it seams
spice surge
The main point being that it doesnt really matter. The crit damage isnt whats strong about bote
Its mostly the crit chance
spice surge
Since its not 25% more damage, its +25% crit damage, so your crits do 225% damage instead of 200%
marble hemlock
this guy maths
tribal marlin
Here the, Mikihisa is with Crit pot, other 2 are with agiliy pot
mighty elm
but i dont see the benefit of not using it before vanish and toxic blade
vestal wren
mystler pushed benthic gear to the t24 profile earlier,
so you can see what of those pieces are beating mythic ones
faint harness
Where is the t24 profile
crisp steppe
@mighty elm I understand vanish. I think you'd want to pair it with toxic blade still
not up2date on it tho
tribal marlin
No conditionning Vanish with TB is no win
tribal marlin
for some wierd reason tho I still dont understand why
mighty elm
just feeling it out on a dummy
spice surge
You're gonna be using crit pots, and with those you'll overcap crit if you use them together
Its possibly better when you're not having pots up
But i doubt it will make any significant difference
vestal wren
a lot of changes in priority dont make a impact on output for sin
this also means a lot of min/maxing ppl do is probably lost effort
night vale
@vestal wren where can we see the T24 profile? 😄
vestal wren
folow the link
tribal marlin
I mean making Vanish tied to TB in the APL was not a win either in S2 or S1
pseudo burrow
Is cyclonic blast still worth to play with the hotfix
night vale
sorry missed that! cheers Fuu
vestal wren
yes cyclic is still good
celest swan
okay whats no the assumption for it, like the sims says?
crisp steppe
@marble hemlock you doing anything differently on ST with lucidmajor + deeper?
mostly for opener
dusky tinsel
pretty sure it shares trinket CD now, so not sure its worth using for something like lurkers, and having to channel it and not cast is kinda yuck
spice surge
If your crit pot is fully stacked (20%), you have bote up (25%) and you use vanish (50%) you're overcapping crit without even having any gear since you have 10% crit baseline
20+25+50+10=105
solar rose
Just don’t go any crit 
untold current
Is that confirmed it shares trinket cd?
rigid mango
Yes
celest swan
@spice surge so the opener in roabots is correct? the one that was postet
https://i.gyazo.com/24cf1e55f1009ef1773a55c233c59cf1.png
spice surge
Yes thats what been found to be the best so far
marble hemlock
nah @crisp steppe
its just
regular opener, once you start starving energy you pop lucid
you still get 3 envenoms into TB even if you waste a GCD on lucid
and then you have full energy until vendetta ends
vestal wren
@night vale here is a sim, its probably easier to see gear there:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/chUkFfthW9bxpozrKv3cyJ/simc
marble hemlock
pop cyclo after once you starve again
and youre gonna be able to top singletarget even against demolocks
rotund mural
If i was to replace 1eb trait (from 3 to 2) what would i want to go for instead?
crisp steppe
dope
tribal marlin
Note that it's not really a loss to use BotE with Vanish if you make sure to use BoTE with 4cp+ Just make sure the entiere duration of BoTE is inside vendetta (but it's no win)
crisp steppe
@marble hemlock do you know if its been tried it sims if its worth to finish at 4cp for the last envenom of the toxic blade
I'm guessing it's not different to not playing deeper
faint harness
so are the raid trinkets fixed in simc now?
sick pasture
Is the crit pot tool tip correct now or is it still 5%? - and Is it worth using?
marble hemlock
ive been finishing at 4+ with DS
the difference in sims between 4+ and 5+ is very minor
well, i only do 4+ during TB
if it means i get an additional env into it
crisp steppe
well I suppose for prio dmg 4+ also makes sense
since ur next fok could generate 5 cp
marble hemlock
so if its 5+ but 2env/tb vs 4+ but 3env/tb
crisp steppe
in aoe situation yeah
marble hemlock
im currently going with the latter, which is entirely feelycrafted
crisp steppe
aye
most of these things end up not mattering too much
rather uptime on boss and basic errors
marble hemlock
it basically comes down to lucid procs during TB, if you dont get any on the mutilates, chances are you wont have the energy to do 3env/tb if you play 5+
celest swan
jsut to be sure u talking about 4+ cause if genrator und FoK not ST with Muti right?^^
marble hemlock
yeah, thats only on pure st with muti as builder
celest swan
besides the TB thing why would u fnish 4 if u could mutilate 6? doesnt that defy the purpose of DS?
marble hemlock
since you dont have the energy to get enough mutis in for 3env/tb if you dont get lucid procs, so if you happen to get a double-crit mut, just finishing 4+ allows you to get another env in that tb
celest swan
so u finish with 4 cp isntead of anothe rmuti cuase your crit chance is so high the overcapping vom 1 muti isn worth on average?
i mean outside of tb now
crisp steppe
dont know if thats worth
celest swan
i get the 3 env inside tb thing^^
crisp steppe
it probably doesn't matter too much
crisp steppe
misunderstood
well, i only do 4+ during TB if it means i get an additional env into it
celest swan
k sry then was confused
marble hemlock
the 4+ discussion only matter in one very specific scenario: youre at 4cp after a mutilate doublecrit, your energy is low, and casting another mutilate+envenom would mean you only get 2nevenoms into that TB, while finishing immediately would allow you to build another 4+ or 5+ envenom to get 3envenoms into that tb instead of 2
celest swan
and @tribal marlin BotE with Vnaish means we use BotE>Vanish>TB....?
or we use BotE isndie the vanish
casue the use on worth it?
tribal marlin
No it means you do Vanish only if you have seething rage buff
marble hemlock
in that very speific case, i finish at 4cp. if id get a 3rd envenom either way, or if i wouldnt be able to get 3rd one either way, you still do the regular 5+ env
celest swan
ok thanks seli
tribal marlin
basically opener will be
Gar Mut Rupt Vend TB Mut Mut BotE Vanish Env Mut Env. This is a win only if you don't use Crit potion
tribal marlin
yes
inner tree
that opener is for what scenario ?
tribal marlin
when you don't use Crit potion but agility insteed
tribal marlin
Because it's the way TB is used in the APL, I didn't change that. You always TB as soon as possible
empty badge
Why not gar rupt gar anymore?
scenic nacelle
This is for MA
empty badge
oh
inner tree
idk i've been using vanish tb mut env personally
spice surge
@inner tree Its mostly inconsequential
There is little to no difference in simc doing it one way or the other
Just do what you prefer
tribal marlin
here the simulation I did yesterday if you want to have a look. Both copy are using agility potion
rotund mural
@tribal marlin Dude i just tried that opener you wrote, sick af, thanks xD
inner tree
yea sure i was just wondering because with rank 3 blood it would maybe be better to weave 2 env during your blood window
when you get increased crit dmg
spice surge
Well thats what he said?
spice surge
?
tribal marlin
It is, but as I said, only if you are using agility potion. With Crit potion you do the default opener
empty badge
crit potion is just better though isnt it
rotund mural
yeah i used agi potion ^^
crisp steppe
is crit pot fixed yet then or
tribal marlin
yes crit potion it's better anyway
crisp steppe
just waiting for the fix to come thru
inner tree
vanish tb ?
spice surge
I've heard crit potion is fixed yes @crisp steppe
crisp steppe
cool thanks for the heads up
spice surge
It doesnt even break stealth anymore 
crisp steppe
tribal marlin
Yes default opener is :
Gar Mut Rupt Vend Vanish TB Mut Env BotE Mut Env
empty badge
Why would you vanish without re gar
spice surge
Because MA
winter moss
MA
tribal marlin
Because all this is with MA I forget to tell xD
spice surge
People still playing subterfuge for ST in current year smh
inner tree
damn ty i've been using bote before vanish
winter moss
playing subter on st because to lazy to actually use a tome
winter moss
ma is clearly the go to talent in palace
wispy leaf
I wrote a ticket regarding crit potion. GM was wondering why u can use pots while stealth. He thought every Pot brings u Out of stealth 🤔
vestal wren
subterfuge is iirc better in st even without ss
tribal marlin
xD I do play MA on Padding boss because I'm lazy to use a tome :3
spice surge
@vestal wren Not even close
strange python
So, Azshara's Font of Power trinket is supposed to be our BiS Active trinket now?
winter moss
it okay tho
untold current
Bit confused, whats the diff in openers with crit pot and blood?
tropic ocean
there is a diff?
untold current
apparently
inner tree
i would assume that with crit pot and MA you reach 100% crit so no rng
empty badge
Gar Mut Rupt Vend TB Mut Mut BotE Vanish Env Mut Env ---------- agi pot
Gar Mut Rupt Vend Vanish TB Mut Env BotE Mut Env ------------------ crit pot
rotund mural
do we still go 3np and 3dd for single target ma build?
inner tree
- bote increase your crit dmg at rank 3
tropic ocean
why would you change opener with agi pot
spice surge
The crit pot is what changes it, not the agi
inner tree
cause you could get fucked by rng i assume
spice surge
But as i said, unless you're running bote rank 3, there is no difference
tropic ocean
i never used this opener 🤷
stable yarrow
How long does crit pot last?
spice surge
25s
cosmic pier
is r3 blood going to be better than r3 life force? or is it just the best out of what available atm?
rancid bobcat
Why ya'll using blood for ST anyway 
tropic ocean
Gar Mut Rupt Vend TB Mut Mut BotE Vanish Env Mut Env
like is there some source or anything trusted
analog glade
Why play with bote ?
faint harness
cus it sims the best for some ppl?
wild stone
^
empty badge
Lucid dreams is just better isnt it
tribal marlin
I linked a simulation I did yesterday about it @tropic ocean scroll a bit
mighty elm
bote sims higher as major
warm ibex
cause i have R3 and no gearbox or r3 lucid/crucible
wild stone
Lucid dreams is worse for me by far
@tribal marlin last night my crit was 37% remember? today i got on and its 27% idk if i had some buff or something i didnt notice...
faint harness
ppl just look at the charts man
stable yarrow
Its more cuz Lucid is such a good minor
wild stone
but Im sure it wasn't accounted for in my sim
faint harness
this is why you sim yourself
inner tree
best seems to be lucid major and worldvein minor but that's maybe a simbait
tribal marlin
Maybe the pearl buf ?
tropic ocean
its more becauseof what you can achieve highest rank I guess
once you got all essences rank3 it will be way different
tribal marlin
That +1000 crit buff from when you defeat Nazjatar commander
wild stone
I thought so too but it had been a few hours I thought since i did WQ
faint harness
i have rank 3 lucid and blood and blood still beats lucid 🤷
tropic ocean
yeah and once u got r3 life it will probably beat both
wild stone
Heroic uunat still worth bonus rolling trinket for if don't have??
inner tree
yea same blood major lucid minor cba with worldvein until rank 3 tbh
wild stone
Is Lurker still worth rolling for if I don't have it yet? (heroic)
rotund mural
what about this Life-Forced essence?
ripe bramble
People look at the sims and think they'll instantly have R3 Life Force lol
crystal vault
forced to be a unholy dk, lame
tropic ocean
i can see iris minor being very good as well but lets see
tough skiff
I got the OP boots im ready
ripe bramble
Focusing Iris minor will be for pure single target only prob
rancid bobcat
Someone in my discord mentioned life force might not be good cause it just dies to mechanics?
rotund mural
@tough skiff I got mine today too, only took 300 manapearls xD
rancid bobcat
Like the pet spawned just sits in void zones
hollow junco
Got socketed benthic belt from a single WQ. Got socketed benthic boots from 425 pearls worth of rerolling. WoW is POE now
can i interest any of you fine men and women in a closet full of socketed fathomstalker boots?
empty badge
I have those boots with socket as well and the belt -- ive heard they are better than most things until 445?
hollow junco
akana's yes
inner tree
Gar Mut Rupt Vend TB Mut Mut BotE Vanish Env Mut Env
question about this opener, if you have 4 cp after tb mut is it worth to mut again ? or vanish at 4cp fuck it
frank escarp
i have a bunch of stuff with a socket but none of them with the right effect
hollow junco
actually even better than 445s atm
empty badge
Is the effect simming correctly
ripe shell
so where can I sim my essences?
rigid mango
Raidbots
empty badge
ripe shell
ty 😄
spice surge
@vestal wren Mb seems like MA isnt as far ahead anymore with the t24 profile
They're basicly even
crisp steppe
probably yeah
spare flame
Good morning infenso
celest swan
@inner tree thought the same nooens asnwered right?
but i guess its only one muti then
overcapping always sucks
inner tree
yea idk
real bay
thank god thought I had to learn how to MA 
jk
untold current
@spice surge what is MB?
spice surge
My bad 
untold current
thought this was some talent lol
spice surge
Yea understandable
real bay
mana break
spice surge
But subterfuge without SS is 🤢
glass relic
fuck sockets just leaving this here 
crystal vessel
celest swan
who says that, please no gut my frost socket^^
vestal wren
pufferfish is fine if you got a socket
if you got pufferfish socket its probably worth to fish for a diffrent slot
strange python
I got a pufferfish socket and settled
autumn slate
Okay guys, I have 2 questions, when do I click the blood of the enemy button in my opener? and when do I click the punchcard trinket now that it got nerfed
ripe nimbus
First of all don't click 
solid nova
@autumn slate Pins for blood and trinket is, >80 energy, with no TB, Vendetta or Lucid buffs.
Its basically placed in a fuller gap when you're starved/got nothing going on
Very engaging
wooden fog
I got the Oris tidal (Frost) wrists with socket on my 3rd attempt yesterday but spent 140 manapearls the first time and only got 1 random socket so I got really lucky
autumn slate
Nice
spice surge
>80 energy
🤔 The arrow is supposed to be the other way @solid nova
inner tree
trying both opener on dummy right now and the "default opener" with bote seems way better for me at least
without any pot
autumn slate
me also dumb so its okay, I understood what you meant 
solid nova
celest swan
a guildamte mage got boots wrists and waist with socket after overall 20 gambles 😄
i ahte him so much
vestal wren
i gambled 5 or so today, got nothing :/
marble hemlock
couldnt gamble today cause lucid r3 costs 50pearls and thats all i had :<
lunar pelican
So should we do +7s before we open our chest today, or was that a troll post
wraith heart
Do you need the benthic gear to be socketed for it to be worth?
lunar pelican
for it to be BiS past heroic, yes
waxen valve
I burned like 250 for socketed boots
lunar pelican
The boots are the real emphasis though
night vale
wrists are also giga tbh
cold patio
lucid r3 cost 50 perls?
lunar pelican
The wrists are great, but if theya re trying to prioritize
rigid mango
Yes
marble hemlock
yes
waxen valve
Too much time for lucid 3, isnt it?
vestal wren
it only costs 5 to gamble for a socket, but quite a bit to upgrade to 420(or 425) so going for socket is worth
marble hemlock
for most people its gonna be boots>wrists>belt/gloves. but both belt/gloves will most likely be replaced by azshara loot
night vale
^ yeah, thats what i found when simming, also backed up by the T24 profiles
cosmic pier
ive had all the wrong boots with sockets actual 
lunar pelican
belt will still prolly be BiS for the two abberation fights though
waxen valve
Just do algan farm dudes for faster pearls. Sorry for out topic btw.
ripe bramble
It's just Wayward and Lost algan yeah?
celest swan
how u mean no way somethings beats 2% dps seli
waxen valve
Ya 50 more now for 425
celest swan
so if u mea casue of life or something the belt would still be better then boots/wrists cause they dont do 2%
night vale
@marble hemlock i was referring to mystlers updated T24 profile, that shows benthic wrists + boots above the mythic raid gear
sick pasture
What pot is the best to use for the opener?
marble hemlock
which is the same i said
tropic ocean
marble hemlock
the azshara belt provides a dps boost to your raid, which might very well be better than the individual 2% gain you have
at least i was referring to the belt
strange python
Really unlucky that I crafted 420 mecha ring/trinket 2x last week and got both trinkets, they don't want me to upgrade my ring :DD
and 1 of the trinkets was 1.5k dps reduction
night vale
@marble hemlock ah mb you were referring to the other guy about the belt! ❤
marble hemlock
nah 😄
marble tartan
do we know if we can get the 2nd rank of vision in mechagon in the first week aswell?
tardy jay
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
wraith heart
Is the agility potion still best?
flint star
Do you use Toxic Blade even with 5 CP?
ornate herald
stable yarrow
I mean u can just check their twitter lol
simple meteor
wtf ahahahaha
tough skiff
stable yarrow
BUt its fake af
stable yarrow
Woudlnt be surprised if that happened tho
untold current
I wish that was real
tough skiff
people without luck or pearls are making those memes
simple meteor
true
ripe nimbus
I have sockets wrists belt and boots and I make those memes 
shy dust
Stop posting fake shit
peak saffron
so talent suggestions for the different boss fights yet, huh?
as in subterfuge vs MA
strange python
how i can sim the benthic gear without having it? i dont find a option to change the effect on it?
peak saffron
I think you need the name of the specific benthic piece that has the effect you want
pulsar relic
is sin the go to for 8.2?
vestal wren
@ornate herald pls keep the troll posts in #off-topic
rotund pier
strange python
fml okay 😄
tropic ocean
better hide before mizerok is on
vestal wren
also, there is no reason to spam the jdotb post.
we have seen it at least 5 times already
just wait for the reset to actually get a confirmation on if thats right
rotund pier
oh ok, sorry i dont live in disc
solid nova
Apology accepted
faint harness
simple meteor
damn how low haste you have for haste to sim first
sand whale
if you're using lucid major your stat weights are gonna be close like that
arctic walrus
My gems are all over the place yet top gear says that's bis
vestal wren
gem value is super high
tender drift
Are there any sims on Punchard w/ cyclotronic red? Apparently it hits like a truck, but I haven't seen anything about it over a longer duration.
simple meteor
atleast gems are cheap
sand whale
also I'm slightly jealous of dem socket benethic
strange python
the essenzis make so a huge different.... im atm only 54 1/2 on neck XD bus holy shit 4k dps ? o_O
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sDJtFrQpx5cB1ZcpwGwZTV
solid nova
@tender drift Yes, its working in Nightly sim
gusty plinth
Potion of Focused Resolve good ? tried it and gives 5% crit :/
tender drift
Thanks Richard! What's the verdict? I know it's gimmicky, and I'm pretty sure my Lurker's is better anyhow, I'm just curious
cobalt pelican
you use it with lurkers, but yes run the sim on your own character
or should i say
(generally)
vapid scarab
Well luckily you have 2 trinket slots, so lurkers being better doesn’t matter
stable yarrow
Crit is my best stat 
tender drift
Lurkers + equip I meant, I generally avoid double use trinks 😃
opal minnow
its probably worth using it as a 2nd on use
tender drift
Cool, cheers
opal minnow
i have lurkers+punchcard and its roughly 700 dps higher than a 415 kimbuls+lurkers
vapid scarab
Well cyclo ends up being used ~45s into the pull anyway regardless what your other trinket is so double on use doesn’t matter
cobalt pelican
it kinda does matter in the real world but eh
tender drift
I appreciate it guys, cheers
cobalt pelican
having 3 casts with 1 of them being at 4:49 on a 5 min sim kinda bumps its sim value up by a bit
i think it's still better than a lot of alternatives right now but how long that holds for is very ? ?
spice surge
sims are always a bit iffy when it comes to cds like that
Since by default it has a 20% variance
So some of the iteration it runs are 4 mins exactly, and some are 6 mins
pulsar relic
how hard would it be to go sin and if sub pulls ahead to chnage gear spec
spice surge
Swapping specs isnt very hard no
pulsar relic
what about mastery?
spice surge
?
sand whale
why don't you want crit or haste for sin
pulsar relic
what do you want then lmao
cobalt pelican
stats that are good
spice surge
Stats are almost irrelevant anyway
cobalt pelican
and not s tats that are bad
spice surge
The hard parts are azerite, and if you havent farmed the essences
spice surge
But seeing as we are literally about to have a seasonal reset you wont have any gear at all
Pls no
faint harness
icy veins 
sand whale
it's easier just to sim yourself + what eleem said, things are gonna change depending on what you get
solid nova
I mean you can look at generic stat weights if you want, but you can just sim yourself and find out the proper answer comparing sims
cobalt pelican
same :sh.
faint harness
:sh.
arctic walrus
Thought the same
pulsar relic
Agility;
Haste;
Critical Strike;
Mastery;
Versatility.
raw plover
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
spice surge
Claw is extra healing too
pulsar relic
that what you want then?
cobalt pelican
no
solid nova
For you to sim yourself
cobalt pelican
there's not a shopping list for stats you just get items you're given
and they're either good or they suck
prisma dagger
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
sudden ravine
I'll have you know I'm not even given any loot.
solid nova
Through the magic of top gear
spice surge
Well, top gear put me with 2 mastery gems, 3 crit ones, 1 haste and 2 vers
faint harness
gotta love it
spice surge
Since all stats are so incredibly close now it literally doesnt matter
As long as you have a gem and an enchant
The difference between different gems is smaller than the error margin of simc
sudden ravine
I have like.. two sockets. our other rogue has 7 i think. Feelsgood
modest oyster
What minor are you guys taking at 55?
vapid scarab
The one that sims higher
modest oyster
Thanks for that, I have simmed myself but just wondered what other people are doing
red plaza
also depends on how many other melee/tanks are using worldvein as that sims pretty high atm
sand whale
sounds good!
shy grove
how do you open the fight as sin
sudden ravine
Will probably be shoehorned into taking Worldvein
I think all of our melee and tanks are running it this week
ripe nimbus
"Shoehorned" u act like that's a bad thing world vein is good
sudden ravine
Not acting like anything.
Even if i wanted to use something else, I would be using worldvein because it's a raid increase over personal increase. That's shoehorning lol.
sand whale
but it should be a personal increase atm
ripe nimbus
It is
sand whale
so you're helping everyone 😉
ripe nimbus
Like 1k dps
tender gale
quick question guys do i want to try to use envom within the envom widow if i have energy at the last second, or use it withing the elaborate planing window
surreal nymph
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
is it me or it doesnt seem like we gonna need Outlaw for Eternal or M+ At all after today? i mean without reaping and with the right gear set Sins can do almost as much in every scenario as long as we hold multiple gear sets right?
crisp steppe
getting the right traits as sin will be more difficult than it is for outlaw.
sin will still be just fine regardless
thats mostly a consideration early on when you don't have the exact pieces you'd prefer
strange python
MMMm i guess
dark crag
Assa needs a few resets to get traits, outlaw needs 1 wits
crisp steppe
yeah
im just gonna play whatever I want
miss out on some residuum but im not like pushing super high anyway
strange python
im just so confused about rerolls in Heroic i feel like i want to give sins most of the bonus rolls so i guess im forcing myself to think outlaw wont be that OP as it was with reaping and cleave raid fights
spice surge
Reaping being gone has almost 0 effect on outlaw
valid spoke
Have anyone made a bis TEP sheet?
rigid mango
BiS in what sense
tropic ocean
@strange python reaping was not the reason for outlaw to be good mate
its a very common misjudgement by majority of players
valid spoke
Coin-worthy bosses etc
dark crag
You can use bf more freely without worrying about reaping spawns if you don't play like pull everything + reaping
strange python
what was it then?
tropic ocean
the trait keep your wits about you
rigid mango
Weapons + zaqul probs
tropic ocean
which released same time reaping released
rigid mango
And or azshara
tropic ocean
I mean if you saw mdi
basically skipping most reaping and still picking double outlaw
should hint why outlaw was good
sin probably benefited more from reaping
due to being able to sustain energy easier/boss in packs and snapshot rupture if energy needed and gaining a lot of st
rigid mango
I don't think that's true
strange python
Mmmm so weird but make sense
rigid mango
I don't think sin benefitted more than outlaw
A bit extreme, but the rest is also true
crisp steppe
@rigid mango definitely bonusrolling azshara. the belt is great, the trinket seems great too
tropic ocean
definetely rolling weapon
but need to make a reminder to not roll crit haste weapon 😄
since crit haste no more good
tough skiff
So the mechagon essence will replace blood and lucid as main today?
rigid mango
Both weaps, zaqul for helm and azshara
dark crag
Weapon is weapon, stats on it are minimal
rigid mango
I doubt it, maybe the minor
crisp steppe
@tough skiff vision sucks for assassination
tropic ocean
nvm
rigid mango
The minor's decent in m+
tropic ocean
i confused vision with protocol
I somehow have the feeling that radiance trinket is big residentsleeper
crisp steppe
vendetta cd for m+?
crisp steppe
meh
rigid mango
the prio is worth a lot
crisp steppe
I can't imagine running that regardless
strange python
@tropic ocean what do you mean crit haste weaps no more good? could you elaborate that?
rigid mango
I can for sure imagine it being decent
gloomy jolt
I just saw the jdotb pic. Why do you get 7 reanimated things for <10 but only 5 for a 10-14?
tropic ocean
due to lucid dreams essence
tough skiff
so lucid dream will be our main essence this patch
tropic ocean
no
if you have all on r3 major will be raid one for st
unless its nerfed or others are buffed
@strange python https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5eKLfsxPWYeKTrnWjKaBMD
strange python
Thx
spice surge
All stats are fine
Literally it doesnt matter what stats you have
Just get ilvl and sockets
modest tendon
to make master stratergem work do you need lucid to be in the major slot?
rigid mango
Not really @modest tendon you just need the minor + some haste it seems
spice surge
"best stat"
spice surge
Enchanting with your "best stat" is like 10 dps over your "worst stat" atm
dark crag
For me with r2 essences mastery simmed best with rest all equal
spice surge
So saying stats matter
Will make peopel discard stuff that has "the worst stat"
Even though since it was 5 ilvsl higher it was better
crisp steppe
?
this helps them greatly
yes you're able to squeeze out 100 more dps
other people put on socketed gear
and ilvl
good situation
tropic ocean
if you discard an item cuz it don't have your best stat combination and you can't see yourself that
80x 2.7 is better than 50x 3.8
your problem
crisp steppe
the point of giving out advice to people is not to serve those who already know everything anyway
that misses the point entirely
vestal wren
stat wights are a terrible metric, dont use it
tough skiff
no residuum this week lol
vestal wren
simming new gear pieces is far better
crisp steppe
as expected then bamboo 😃
vestal wren
still s2 chest?
stark oxide
should be yes
I haven't opened yet but that's what posts were saying yesterday
from wowhead and Ion and stuff
strange python
is the Ashvane's trinket a passive trinket? i mean it has an active but its so low cd that i wonder if it would share cd with Azshara's trinket
rigid mango
it's an on use initially, and an on use when you pop it
arctic walrus
Got dagger from world boss no wf/socket tho 
nimble tartan
What ilvl does world boss drop
dark crag
Worldboss? Where?
analog glade
Crit Or Agi pot guys ?
uncut nova
I Use crit
faint harness
Gee imagine if we had some official notes from Blizzard
dark crag
Worldboss in naz or mechagon? Or even zul/kul?
hollow hemlock
tender drift
I might have misunderstood something, but does r3 lucid really have 3 sec shorter uptime than r2 (12 sec r3, 15 sec r2)?
it's listed as such on wowhead
crisp steppe
no
faint harness
Why would that be a thing
crisp steppe
its 15sec ingame
faint harness
common sense
crisp steppe
u get leech on major, vers on minor for r3
tender drift
common sense and new patches not always best buddies :d
crisp steppe
true
unborn root
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
stray imp
is the benthic gear good even without socket have no luck with that and cant buy any more
flint star
New to simming. Sim showed mastery as the best stat, I got mastery gems. Now it shows me haste as the best stat. What do I do in such situations?
steel summit
@flint star , weights are probably so close that either will be fine.
flint star
spice surge
Yes, all stats are basicly equal
flint star
Thank you. Saved me some gold.
real bay
3DD 1NP 1SS BBI only 400dps less with subt than pure MA. hmm
steep obsidian
guildy raging coz he just noticed lucid rank 3 costs 50 pearls
fbm
it really should say that in game
real bay
it does when you go to the vendor
vestal wren
^
real bay
none of the essences say what they cost in neck
steep obsidian
you can't see it in the vendor until you have the achievement though?
vestal wren
you do
real bay
you can when you have r2
arctic walrus
Is purification simming good as a minor for m+ for anyone else
steep obsidian
im only goin by what he told me oh well
hybrid hull
I could not find in on the pins or guide but are we supposed to line up BotE with vendetta or use on cd?
urban junco
vestal wren
be kind
spice surge
np
azure sluice
ey would be much thankful if some 1 linked Bis Gear link
rigid mango
Bis in what sense
livid hull
how were yellow cards nerfed?
livid hull
ah rip that trinket then
faint harness
they changed the beam tho
dense blaze
Kimbul's?
faint harness
it can crit and is affected by haste now
livid hull
oh interesting
tepid ridge
any issues with Ashvane's razor's sim? it looks really really strong on herodamage, and just.... sucks on my gear compare
don't get why
livid hull
Because you are missing the use command in the simc apl
tepid ridge
oh ok thanks 😃
civic palm
royal lantern
name of the ST/raid pot again?
nimble tartan
focused resolve
royal lantern
thx
lunar pelican
so did anyone get anima?
rigid mango
forest oasis
Yo just subbed again is there any list of the best Benthic gear for assa ?
lunar pelican
Crit Boots > Frost Wrsits > Abberatio Belt
forest oasis
thanks alot
tepid ridge
can we prepot focused resolve ?
rigid mango
Yes
cobalt pelican
can someone with a bigger brain than me please explain the difference between https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i9i92cDMbKQ6M3sEzcM6HS and https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cM4tskJuuzpG6VzYf7ZeSk
uneven summit
Do we have an overview of essences in minor etc?
cobalt pelican
i'm sure i've set something differently since even the iteration count is different by 5k
but i can't see what
cobalt pelican
they both have iris in the comparison itself right
and one shows it better, one shows it worse
i rechecked a couple times but idk wtf is going on but i'm low on sleep so
analog glade
in ST
mighty elm
so basically all the time (: ty
analog glade
Yup
soft warren
what minor we use with lucid blood ?
ancient onyx
Yo boys dos Worldvein sim as 1 person if i don;t change anything in the API?
rigid mango
There's a dropdown
quasi ledge
Default 5, check the settings
rigid mango
If you scroll down a bit, for worldvein amount
vestal carbon
overclock red punch card is BIS?
rigid mango
Sim it.
blazing matrix
so basically 2 use trinkets for assa suck right?
rigid mango
It sucks for most
but cyclo is still fine
Since assa has so much downtime, there's space to use it
Without getting punished for 2 on use
deft nymph
is simc doing cyclo properly?
rigid mango
Yes
deft nymph
i'm assuming the play is to use it prepull and then just before each vendetta or?
quiet abyss
for singel target on sin i wana stack as much haste as i can for energy regen ?
deft nymph
after vend when you're energy starved?
rigid mango
You sim your stats @quiet abyss
Yes, you use it whenever you have a spot to use it later on
sin has natural downtime
deft nymph
sim has me stacking mastery for instance @quiet abyss
rigid mango
so whenever you're pooling etc, you can use it
quiet abyss
okay
deft nymph
but it did have me using a mix of haste/mastery before
rigid mango
Sim has nearly all the stats on level pegging for me
They're so close it barely matters.
quiet abyss
i got 1 152 crit 1539 haste and 923 mastery
was just wondering if that is somewhat ok
rigid mango
Idk, what does your sim tell you
There's no "ok" "bad" "good"
You sim your shit, and you get told what to pick
deft nymph
and rearranger is still no bueno right
rain frigate
Hey guys is sin the play for this raid ?
rigid mango
Yes
deft nymph
bummer
rigid mango
and also yes
deft nymph
bout to destroy a 425 rearranger
rain frigate
Ok I been outlaw and am not very skilled in sin but have the gear for it
rigid mango
It might be aight
rain frigate
I’m nervous
deft nymph
sin grows on you
rain frigate
That’s what I hear
deft nymph
it's nice having a big opener/burst windows
rain frigate
TB ?
rigid mango
Toxic blade
rain frigate
It looks awesome and is fun I did on mythic mecha but wasn’t a kill and I was learning it lmao I remember saying how am I doing so much damage 😂
I only ever play outlaw and fury warrior
Soo dot specs are new to me
rigid mango
Yeah well, dot spec is new and slower spec is new
rigid mango
Sin is all about preplanning
cobalt pelican
the more i look at it the less i understand
rain frigate
Yea that’s what I hear @rigid mango
rain frigate
I just don’t know what do with sin in all situations so I’m scared for heroic tonight lmao
rigid mango
harder
rain frigate
Oh ok ok
rain frigate
Is the guide for sin posted in pins for new raid ?
rain frigate
Oh ok ok
rigid mango
There's some stuff it doesn't exactly cover, but is easily answered
quasi pewter
@cobalt pelican whats the problem with the sims?
first one is with rank 3 lucid 2nd one with rank 2
quasi pewter
if ur wondering whats different
rigid mango
not the one u linked first
rigid mango
It's got r3 of lucid onboth
cobalt pelican
one with rank 2 1 with rank 3?
wary ice
are sims updated / trustworthy?
cobalt pelican
sorry, the quick sim is obviously wrong
rigid mango
Whast sims are you referring to @wary ice
quasi pewter
i was only talking about the 2 you linked above
wary ice
like Raidbots
cobalt pelican
yea
rigid mango
yes
wary ice
are the api's updated**
steel wagon
are we back to using subterfuge over master assassin? All the new guides are using subterfuge
cobalt pelican
those quick sims are generated from right clicking the gear set in the top gear sim -> quick sim
rigid mango
@steel wagon depends on your traits
wary ice
Thanks zine!
rigid mango
and fight etc
cobalt pelican
so i guess top gear is running that sim at rank 2, but the iris one at rank 3?
steel wagon
I have BIS MA traits
cobalt pelican
but i don't understand why
steel wagon
and BIS subterfuge traits
rigid mango
Yeah
i was
cobalt pelican
i edited the essences available list but not the essences equipped list
rigid mango
@steel wagon it's down to whether it's cleave or ST
steel wagon
yeah its cause the guide on wowhead says to use subterfuge on every single fight
which makes no sense
quasi pewter
rigid mango
sub with SS is better for cleave, MA is better for patchwerk fifhts
fights*
Using sub is easy
and a lot of the time more valuable
if you can vanish > a garrote on 2-3 targets it's better
The fights that lack cleave entirely, MA is better.
opal osprey
should i follow Wowhead for the essence guide?
tall snow
Hey guys. I just created an abyssal gearspun googles and got with it a recipe for a 430 google. Can I scrap this thing I just did and get my expulson back?
This is kinda unfair!
D:
rigid mango
@opal osprey you should follow your sims 😄
@tall snow ask that in #wow-general I bet there's someone knowledgeble there
marble tartan
focused resolve or the superior battle potion?
rigid mango
Depends what you're doing
marble tartan
mostly Raid ST
rigid mango
Then it's crit
marble tartan
and for aoe fights I should use superior
rigid mango
aoe it's the other one the uhh empowered proximity
I think
It seems better but I'm not exactly sure how it works tbh
marble tartan
so we dont actually use superior potions?
rigid mango
Afaik, they're worse than the other ones, yeah
sharp lily
People were saying that the crit potion was buggy and unreliable
rigid mango
I was one of them
but I also tested it yesterday and it was working as intended
no stealth breaking, stacking full 20%
sharp lily
Sweet, good to know. Ive been holding off crafting potions until that was confirmed or fixed
Also empowered proximity on 4+ targets for aoe and Superior Agi for anything under 4?
vapid scarab
so cyclotronic can crit now
spice surge
Have fun telling people that MA is only rogue specific spells 😄
rigid mango
Thanks 
solemn meadow
so the haste card is gonna be super good now?
polar tapir
has anyone looked at new potions? agi vs unbridled fury?
solemn meadow
since it got buffed hard
rigid mango
Well they chunked all yellow cards in half
@polar tapir scroll up bud
just thad this convo
sharp lily
@polar tapir Focused resolve for ST, Empowered Prox for 4+ targets and Superior agi for less than 4
vapid scarab
@solemn meadow what buff
polar tapir
Thanks guys
rancid bobcat
Has anyone tried saving their m+ cache after doing a +7?