mighty elm
cant cast anything while channeling
#assassination
solemn meadow
Rise wdym
quartz dew
it didn't before?
solemn meadow
on NA or smth?
stone crescent
Wowhead?
latent reef
not like this, rip
solemn meadow
can I get a link
solemn meadow
I am on eu do I need to reload or smth?
faint harness
just try it
quartz dew
yea breaks on action on EU for me too
faint harness
maybe
solemn meadow
so I never relogg 
faint harness
i just phased into naz
to try it
and yea
my macro doesnt work anymore
it just uses the vers trinket
and incur a 30 sec cd on the pocket
dense blaze
Lmfao..
quartz dew
oh well, the boots were an upgrade for me regardless
stable plinth
later
faint harness
fun was had, nerf was imminent
long hill
Got wrist+ waist with socket, 425- 415 atm, should i save manapearl for push the waist at 425 or search open more boots and try to get a socket? (i have them with no socket)
faint harness
save ur pearls for nerfs
lusty narwhal
Kms im empty on pearls atm
long hill
are they nerfing them?
dense blaze
Of course they will
shy grove
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
scarlet sequoia
the trinket is still good tho @faint harness
faint harness
blood isnt even bad
scarlet sequoia
did sims use abilities while it was channeling
shy grove
i just rolled 2 crit boots with socket back to back
faint harness
yes it did raz
shy grove
RIP MY RNG for the rest of the xpack
cobalt pelican
it probably is bad
solemn meadow
cobalt pelican
honestly
spice surge
Still probably better than low-ilvl lurkers or for people without a good on-use trinket
long hill
RIP
long hill
i dont need haste :/ but for sub is not bad
solemn meadow
no
faint harness
why do you want nerfs on good items
stable yarrow
stahp omarrr
solemn meadow
dont nerf my precious rolled gear
faint harness
whats wrong with you
dense blaze
"I hope I do less damage" - you
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lusty narwhal
Probably because of the rng element lol
trail cypress
did they just nerfed the mechagon trinket? i cannot use mut while chanelling anymore
lusty narwhal
?
faint harness
who cares what number it has
lusty narwhal
WutFace
nimble tartan
i care this is my ROLEPLAYING GAME
faint harness
??
long hill
@trail cypress yes
solemn meadow
did you look at the azerite gear
nimble tartan
i wanna feel strong bro
lusty narwhal
Stop thos
faint harness
fucking casuals man
nimble tartan
i love being a casual
faint harness
"muh numbers"
nimble tartan
hard nerf benthic ty blizzard
latent reef
no fun allowed
spice surge
@nimble tartan A real chad would use the 425 but farm neck levels so he has the stamina of a 440
nimble tartan
ye its fun to gamble a bunch of pearls for a socket
solemn meadow
no its not
faint harness
if the benthic is dead you wont spend them at all
nimble tartan
to fill out their pieces
solemn meadow
I rather be able to buy it
faint harness
AKA just buy a fuckton of azerite gear to scrap
cobalt pelican
i'd be fine with maybe like 1 piece of benthic being usable or something
nimble tartan
just hard nerf benthic ty for coming to my ted talk
cobalt pelican
when half of the slots can be filled with benthic till socketed mythic gear idk
nimble tartan
yeah legit you gotta wear 4 benthic slots and itll be better than the mythic option with socket
its dumb af
faint harness
imagine playing this game and hoping for nerfs to things, they already nerf way too many things.
nimble tartan
i mean makes the raid less fun for me
dense blaze
His opinion is irrelevant, ignore it
nimble tartan
when i dont get excited when the gear drops
spice surge
Well yeah, theres no loot in palace except daggers and 1 azerite helm 
faint harness
playing for gear btw
spice surge
Or well, cloak and maybe a trinket too i guess
spice surge
Ideally you'd just titanforge/socket CoS gear+benthic gear+mechagon rings and then buy residum azerite
And then get a mythic weapon from first boss
faint harness
I wouldnt play wow if that was the case
playing this game for gear is a bit yikes, but you do you, aint judging
cobalt pelican
i think it's fairly normal to play rpgs for gear
faint harness
wows gear progression has been fucked since TF
cobalt pelican
i mean yeah wow is basically the worst game for it these days but
it's not abnormal
faint harness
ofc not
solemn meadow
wows not the worst game
nimble tartan
what do u play for if not gear i guess rankings
cobalt pelican
for gear progression in an rpg it probably is
faint harness
for the challenge
nimble tartan
but im comfy with where my guild ranks rn
cobalt pelican
that's not an indication of the overall game
nimble tartan
u can play for gear and prog at the same time i dont see why its exclusive lol
faint harness
gear is just a tool to be able to do these challenges for me, its necessary but not the main goal
solemn meadow
the only thing that destroyed pvp for me
is that there are ppl with 80k hp in bgs
while I have 270k
and they can kill me
that shouldnt be possible
scaling + gear = shit
arctic walrus
500 pearls to add socket slot to raid gear thoughts? 🤔
solemn meadow
how about removing tf
nimble tartan
No vel please god
faint harness
@nimble tartan sry for the reaction btw, just tilted they destroyed fun mechanics + might destroy something i've farmed many hours to get
spice surge
nimble tartan
all good
strange python
awe they nerfed red punch card
rough agate
yeah its canceling the channel
nimble tartan
It’s possible that even not being able to cast and shared cd that the cyclotronic is still viable
faint harness
its possible
livid hull
I still think it's very strong
nimble tartan
Has so much damage per cast of the skill
strange python
Memory of Lucid dreams in Major slot.. which should i put in the Minor slot?
nimble tartan
you just have to play around it a lot more and make sure you aren’t capping energy or missing out on any uptime etc
livid hull
sin can easily find situations where you are energy starved
olive tulip
#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/use Pocket-Sized Computation Device
this macro doesnt works, it only casts vendetta. any idea why?
do I need to click twice ?
faint harness
they nerfed the trinket
spice surge
Read the messages above yours
solemn meadow
damn
olive tulip
wat
solemn meadow
I just 300 iq played myself
a mob made me sleep
but my lurker did dmg to me so it got me out
burnt dome
big lurker plays
olive tulip
when the hell they nerfed it
burnt dome
just now
faint harness
few minutes ago
strange python
yea like 5 minutes ago bye bye fun
olive tulip
so haste one is better now and I just wasted it?
strange python
but yea ill just cast it when energy starved
faint harness
haste one is garbage either way
burnt dome
still seems pretty good
olive tulip
really? okay
strange python
anything that just gives you 200k damage wont be bad
burnt dome
why not use it while pooling tbh
strange python
exactly
ripe nimbus
good luck remembering pushing anything cancels it and it fks you.
livid hull
You just can't use it mindlessly anymore
strange python
probably after lucid and vendetta when you have no energy left or something
livid hull
use it when energy starved
ripe nimbus
literally hitting interupt will cancel the channel
rough agate
you dont auto either
rigid mango
It still sounds quite bad
olive tulip
hmm so vendetta + lucid + trinket,, no down time anymore? 
rigid mango
I'm not gonna use it probably
strange python
ah true
faint harness
just pray you get the red card from mechagon
livid hull
then use lucid so both are are cd
faint harness
This card was already good before these nerfs
solemn meadow
whats the ppm for that
faint harness
no clue, but it was simming at 4-5% of ur dmg
it was equal or slightly above cyclotronic blast
solemn meadow
I mean the cyclo blast didnt forge
if it turns out the mechagon one is good
just get that
and you have 420
true pelican
it's not a proc, it's a 15 second cd
spice surge
It feels like there will be lots of viable essences for m+ and you can decide what you want to do
solemn meadow
glad this isn't the Dk discord
spice surge
Lots might be an exaggeration, but a few atleast
solemn meadow
as soon as you say feel in the dk discord they bombard you with feelicraft memes
faint harness
literally any other class discord will do that
spice surge
Well m+ is pretty feels heavy
olive tulip
btw isn't Vision of Perfection + Nothing Personal very op? Condensed Life-Force really better?
spice surge
Whereas for ST when you can reliably sim stuff, feels isnt really an option
olive tulip
marble hemlock
the problem with vision isnt that the major is bad, its that the minor is literally a 0dps increase
so picking the major comes at a huge opportunity cost
spice surge
^ The major is actually quite good
olive tulip
@marble hemlock i see, that's make sense
spice surge
But another major+minor is better than vision major
marble hemlock
people need to get rid of the mindset of just comparing majors with each other, and then picking the one thats highest. you gotta add major+minor value and then compare that to the major+minor value of a different essence
because theres always opportunity cost if you pick a major that performs better than another one, but has a worse minor
livid hull
harmonic dematerializer is only a 100dps loss ST for me
olive tulip
Yeah, I usually forgot major essences also come with a minor
livid hull
if it forges it beats pre-nerf cyclotronic
spice surge
Yes, looks like your sim isnt using the trinket nor any essences
livid hull
what he said
scarlet sequoia
you hate to see it
subtle tundra
What are people simmin nowadays, around how much dps is a 415?
spice surge
Around 35-38k is good optimized 415+
blissful basin
@subtle tundra 35k
spice surge
But its quite irrelevant as that will all change massively in less than 2 days
tall snow
I've been told the Cyclotronic Blast has been nerfed and it's not anymore our BIS trinket. D:
Is it true.
ripe bramble
Correct
drifting cloud
2nd bis is still bis with 2 trinket slots
livid hull
true
drifting cloud
livid hull
PSCD is still bis
cobalt pelican
1+1=2
livid hull
just switch to harmonic destabilizor
olive tulip
faint harness
Just get it to drop 
vapid scarab
just like you have 50% crit chance, you either crit or you don't
50% drop chance to
it either drops or it don't
livid hull
yeah but harmonic destabilizor dropping from op:mechagon means it will be viable after this tier cause of M+
white basalt
Am I gimping myself but not having punchcard?
cobalt pelican
wait and see i guess
livid hull
I mean I did the sims. A 415 harmonic is only 100 dps behind pre-nerf cyclotronic. A 425 one beats it by 200 dps.
cobalt pelican
i don't think they'll even be on the m+ drop table
covert sedge
imagine getting a punchcard in your weekly box
cobalt pelican
but that's just a random guess
faint harness
440 punchcard
cobalt pelican
there's a lot of them to not but
livid hull
I sincerly doubt they'd remove punchcards from loot table
spice surge
I dont think you will be able to
faint harness
I see the punchcards as trinkets
spice surge
Since mechagon isnt in the m+ pool
covert sedge
well in season 4
faint harness
yea right now
spice surge
Well yes
livid hull
It drops at 415 currently so a warforge to 425 isn't inconcievable
faint harness
lets hope they fixed the crit pot while fixing cycloblast bugs
surreal solar
herodamage and sims are having echo at low boards, is it still good? or was it nerfed?
rigid mango
wdym
surreal solar
for M+, my sims are showing echo as less value than something like, NP or DD
marble hemlock
depends on whether they add mechagon into m+ with s4, or with a mid-season patch
rigid mango
Dungeon slice values lower target/St fights way more
marble hemlock
if its with s4, which would be next raid, then the trinket will just get outscaled by raid-trinkets
rigid mango
Than an actual dungeon is
Simming for dungeons as assa isn't really a good thing, the answers are entirely haywire
if you need help, just ask @marble hemlock 
marble hemlock
<
rigid mango
Any mix of eb/ttk/ss is still the way to go afaik
Nothing's changed
Dungeonslice is just wack
spice surge
ttk feels nice with deeper and lucid tbh
rigid mango
tft
It does
It's really really nice
@marble hemlock at the right moment, do you think "your build" beats just going purification?
surreal solar
i like Lucid Dream + Crucible atm
marble hemlock
havent had a chance yet to test purification r2
sudden ravine
Glad i got to enjoy the Punchcard for 15 minutes before it got gutted
rigid mango
hm ok
sudden ravine
yeah, gutted too strong of a word
sudden ravine
it's just not a 6% upgrade anymore 
surreal solar
is it still an upgrade tho?
spice surge
The random instakill of purification is
icy ember
ye and it is broken at the moment, it doesnt fit w/asn spec
marble hemlock
new cyclo might still be very good for assa since we can just pop it after CDs and are most likely not going to lose out on a single use
we have downtimes anyway, so its not like we lose anything by not using an ability for 3-4sec
rigid mango
ye
sudden ravine
yeah you can just use it now at low energy downtime
crystal vessel
Do we have a benthic nerf list?
icy ember
ye it will be kinda strange to use it during "downtime"
rigid mango
nerf?
marble hemlock
dont think anythings nerfed y et for benthic
rigid mango
faint harness
so still equip 2 use trinkets and use it after the 30 sec cd has dropped
rigid mango
Nothing's been touched benthic wise afaik
marble hemlock
bracers/belt still deal same damage per proc
for benthic discussion, just check #wow-general
burnt dome
thin k dh disc mentioned benthic nerfs though
rigid mango
faint harness
ingame testing shows no nerfs
faint harness
the minor is decent dmg
spice surge
It randomly kills things
spice surge
Allegedly it bopped a mini-boss in waycrest
surreal solar
so, good use for random stuff? or for like, actually raiding/keys?
spice surge
Unclear
rigid mango
It's bopped the dinos in teh middle of AD
but atm, maybe 5 puri is the play
just bop as many as possible
spice surge
frigid sleet
#wow-general doesnt show the abberation belt as superior as the other one anymore, should the pin here be changed or is it a mistake ?
drifting cloud
it never was? it only works on 2 bosses
rigid mango
It's the best for those two
but it's very situational, and I think that's very obvious
burnt dome
The randomness of puri is gonna be hilarious in some runs tho
desert pelican
punchcard nerfed to ground?
burnt dome
when you get some insane rng on yoru side
strange python
I'm pretty bummed about the punch card
faint harness
still useable
north vector
new to rogue, how does sin do on m+?
sudden ravine
still usable but it triggering other Use: trinkets really sucks.
faint harness
I'm thinking about using my vers on use trinket with vendetta and cycloblast when trinket cd is over
burnt dome
make assa great again @north vector
rigid mango
make assa great
sudden ravine
so you wont be able to use it until 20+ seconds into a fight, but, your energy should have a fall off shortly after that period
burnt dome
shhhh
burnt dome
outlaw >>>>>> sin >>>>>> rest
rigid mango
No
burnt dome
but outlaw is ew
icy ember
sub 
wooden fog
Isnt the cycloblast still good on rogues? Like we would just use when pooling energy
north vector
alright think ill go with sin then. ty ❤
burnt dome
they both really really viable tohugh
so try em both and do whatever you feel plays nice
heady oasis
exsang doesnt effect nothing personal does it?
rigid mango
It's down to seasonal affix and how essences work
Sin is really good, but takes a time to optimise
Gear wise.
It's got a rather low skill floor, but a very high skill ceiling
in m+
north vector
how important are azerite traits?
burnt dome
oh yeah im not taking into account essences atm havent played enough keys yet to see how they turn in on either outlaw or assa
rigid mango
Very
burnt dome
was more referring to s2
drifting cloud
I dont think you know what viable means
north vector
lucid for essence right?
rigid mango
even with a seasonal affix playing into their EXACT STRENGHTS assa was equal
drifting cloud
assa was definetly 2 tiers above viable
rigid mango
Assa and outlaw were 2 tiers above anything else in the game
People have this warped view that sin was far behind outlaw, which it was early on thanks to lack of optimisation
unborn root
Quick question, anyone know if crimson vial activates crucible of flame minor?
rigid mango
but at the stats and gear level we were at, sin reached outlaw +- even though the season was a PERFECT outlaw season
unborn root
or can proc it, rather
burnt dome
I'd disagree. I'm a assa only player but there's a real good reason why 90% of rogues played outlaw in s2 and it's purely because they outdmg and oututilitied sin in m+
Selia is one of very few who can play sin to its maximum potential
urban junco
uhh, can we not cast during the channel of Cyclo anymore?
dense blaze
Dead trinket
urban junco
fml
rigid mango
It's really not
burnt dome
When you'r etalking about advising a random player, not a pro player about if assa is viable my outlaw>sin is still very much true though
rigid mango
assa has a lot of down time, it can see good use
dense blaze
It is, you'll accept it soon, you're in denial and that's okay.
dense blaze
😃
drifting cloud
yeah starts of tier are always fun
rigid mango
I think that your view on the specs are entirely warped Koek
drifting cloud
cant wait for this tiers version of: can rogue solo coin shower
rigid mango
Sin is much harder to master than outlaw, yes
But you can do perfectly well with sin and be on outlaw level if not higher consistantly
I could, and I'm miles away from seli
analog glade
Woy, Focused Resolve bot sims better than agi pot in ST
rigid mango
The issue with sin is that people need to forget that just spamming fok might be the best for your overall, but not for pushing the key
blazing matrix
how do i get blood of the enemy exactly
rigid mango
@analog glade yes, but it's also a buggy shitshow
I wouldn't use it, it pulls you out of stealth, doesn't stack properly etc
doesn't even reach 20%
@blazing matrix google bud
burnt dome
Obviously there's a lot of value in prio target dmg over overall dmg and overall isn't what makes a spec good or bad. I also said Outlaw oututilitied sin though, and it does in many dungeons except maybe shrine. I don't agree with you on Sin being equal level, it's not much below imo but yeah a bit. but either way its too much to get into at this time :p
rigid mango
Yes, I fully know that outlaw has better utility
Prey on a rotational stun, gouge, vanish whenever you want w/out losing dps and on lower cd
I know
burnt dome
and im not sure what level/experience you'd consider yourself, but when speaking about the average player who really aint that good theyre gonna do better on outlaw
desert pelican
outlaw - more cc. thats all?
burnt dome
more cc is so much worth on m+ though
desert pelican
limits?
rigid mango
It is
Outlaw is limited to blade flurry charges
sin has nothing
If you pull properly
Sin will out dps outlaw
tropic ocean
@burnt dome outdmging sin lul
stone pilot
i think they fixed the crit pot breaking stealth
urban junco
I guess during a lust opener this trinket would still be fine
desert pelican
but if u pull properly bf is nearly never going out
drifting cloud
you speak about average then you bring cc utility
urban junco
to just stand there and let it tick
drifting cloud
when we all know average people barely use their interrupt
burnt dome
you're only talking here about optimal groups and pulls though. the average player is gonna have shit pulls and not profit from sin as much as he could
tropic ocean
on 2,4k ish rio not stumbled across any outlaw in 18,19,20s that oudpsed me on3 eb
desert pelican
but u using 1 outlaw for cc, coz there is no gouge + bte in rotation for assa
tropic ocean
only outlaws that outdpsed me were people there were higher than me, but cant compare 2,4k player
rigid mango
hm? wdym
tropic ocean
to 3,5k player
rigid mango
yeah
carmine valve
Outlaw has stun in their rotaion with dmg increase + gouge to CC mobs
drifting cloud
youre just trying to make such a small difference thats mostly dependant on key lvl and affixes appear way bigger than it is
rigid mango
but the thing sin has no limits
drifting cloud
when in fact wf keys were done as assa
rigid mango
^
Outlaw has amazing utility, yes
Sin has ironwire + silences, which isn't as much
but also that + prio dmg + higher dmg
I'd put them equal pegging.
rigid mango
yeah, for sure
tropic ocean
RylerToday at 2:42 AM
when in fact wf keys were done as assa
rigid mango
that's what I meant
tropic ocean
this is a really bad argument though
rigid mango
sin/outlaw are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other spec for m+
Or were, rather
s2
rancid spade
lock >>>>>>> x10^∞ rest
hazy iron
Eh I think the point they’re trying to make is that outlaw is heaps easier to do well with less effort, it doesn’t sound like they’re denying that sin is better over all
burnt dome
and I never disagreed with that on you
rigid mango
You're saying outlaw is better
burnt dome
I m just of the opinion that sin is slightly below outlaw
but still way better than anything else
hazy iron
Never mind guess I’m wrong
rigid mango
icy ember
sin is better 
outlaw is better
plush crescent
anyone have a suggestion for easy plates to track dots?
balmy cradle
sub is better?
cobalt pelican
there isn't an objectively better spec
and the only stats you can use indicate outlaw is better
rigid mango
Neither is better
cobalt pelican
beyond that it's pointless to argue
keen elk
@plush crescent neat plates is bomb
rigid mango
They're so close
keen elk
Used to be tidy plates
tropic ocean
dps wise theres is not way outlaw will outdps equal skilled assassination and especially not in high keys s2
icy ember
i use plater w/flawlesspls setttings
plush crescent
thanks @keen elk
tropic ocean
which you regularly saw on seli stream
strange python
Outlaw just feels clunky or I'd play it. Sin flows well
tropic ocean
playing with worlds best rogues in group
utility is a different thing, outlaw brings more to the table compared to sin in that case
burnt dome
seli gets outdpsed plenty by outlaw rogues but overall is not the meter here for what is the better spec
sullen pagoda
overall
tropic ocean
!"outdpsed plenty by outlaw rogues but overall is not the meter here"
carmine valve
But outlaw can do amazing dmg without having to change his stats/gear and azerite traits. Outlaw has such luxery of minimal effort, sin needs to invest alot to compete with outlaw
burnt dome
not in prio
sullen pagoda
ret pala in my group popping wings on reaping before boss pull top notch
rigid mango
^
icy ember
ye you wrong about that
rigid mango
Valuable damage is worth more, sin has more valuable damge than outlaw
burnt dome
^ that is what im trying to say
zenith gust
U wanna out dps an outlows overall ez? Just go 3xEB +3xSS
tropic ocean
but how does
rigid mango
I don't need pad build
tropic ocean
that make outlaw better than sin?
rigid mango
to out dps monkeys
tropic ocean
sin has more prio
zenith gust
Ez padding
rigid mango
And close-ish utility
livid hull
@strange python harmonic destabilizer is just as strong as pre-nerf cyclotronic
quasi pewter
rigid mango
It's the only part we're lacking
tropic ocean
the part where outlaw outshines assa is
bte and gouge
and not overall or priod mg
carmine valve
cyclotonic got nerfed?
rigid mango
prey bte 
hazy iron
Like, certain mobs need to die quicker; let the other party members aoe down the trash, and focus on the priority. Outlaw can’t do that effectively
rigid mango
@carmine valve yes
hazy iron
Even if it’s 10-15k over on a pull
carmine valve
where do I find it how much it got nerfed?
ripe bramble
@livid hull What stats are best? kinda hard to sim the different punchcards
ripe bramble
yeah, wish it was easier to sim the yellows
marble hemlock
thanks to wits, outlaw actually has very good prio :>
zenith gust
@ripe bramble use compare gear for that
livid hull
if I had to guess some combo mastery/haste/vers
tropic ocean
wdym
rigid mango
And doesn't actually matter what so ever
fresh dock
https://www.wowhead.com/news=293642/cyclotronic-blast-mechagon-trinket-nerf-using-abilities-now-interrupts-the-trink?webhook @carmine valve
rigid mango
outlaw was the only thing we saw in the mdi
carmine valve
Thank you
balmy cradle
purely for m+ sin stats are crit->mast->vers->haste right?
rigid mango
thus it's better
depends on your set up
but if you're running ttk's, yes mastery, if you're not, vers is better than mastery
Always crit first though
carmine valve
They get most out of monk 5% physical dmg too I guess
sullen pagoda
DK was played decent amount in mdi surely unholy is very good and needs some balancing down 
tropic ocean
I wonder if these outlaw vs sin arguments are brought up in outlaw channel here
rigid mango
@sullen pagoda 
tropic ocean
or these ppl are just coming here all the time
hazy iron
Koek has left, there’s nothing to argue anymore
undone minnow
quick question, ive got the crit benthic boots, but no socket. Should i keep rolling for socket or upgrade boots to 420 ?
balmy cradle
and there is no haste lowcap where you stop losing haste? just for my own experience i feel sin with less than 10%ish haste feels super clunky
tropic ocean
@balmy cradle in m+ your haste gets carried by overwhelming power traits
and quick navi enchant
vast forum
@undone minnow if you have alts to funnel tokens, keep rolling
sullen pagoda
@undone minnow if u have alts u dont plan on playing any time soon id keep rerolling with sending tokens from those alts
vast forum
if not, then idk 😛
tropic ocean
you only need haste on st, it wont matter for aoe
sullen pagoda
just by doing starting shit you get 60 pearls
rigid mango
undone minnow
thats a good idea thanks!
vast forum
who could that be @rigid mango ? 
cobalt pelican
they're not even arguments really people just start screeching when someone says they think outlaw is better
and the screeching doesnt stop for like 30 mins
rigid mango
@vast forum idk, maybe you know the guy?
hazy iron
lol
balmy cradle
@tropic ocean so you enchant haste even tho we dont want haste :D?
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican you can think whatever you want
@balmy cradle for m+ I use 2x op 1x quick navi y
balmy cradle
ic tyvm
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican you can say "i think outlaw is better because of gouge and bte" and probably noone will argue with u
carmine valve
Cyclotronic Blast can still work in sin rotation right? sin has most downtime of all specs??
rigid mango
yes @carmine valve
spice surge
Sin has plenty of downtime, but i doubt its the lowest anymore
With lucid coming into the picture things sped up significantly
tropic ocean
@balmy cradle my base haste is 7 or 8% and in st with op and navi up i have around 25or 26% which is good enough for me, in tos or kr i switch 1 eb for 1ss and nP and with lucid i dont have any issues on st
(is just my personal setup and might not be the best or most optimal)
cobalt pelican
cpm tables from our last bod raid are confusing actually
rigid mango
I meant frost dk
balmy cradle
@tropic ocean thanks alot, will you use the new weapon enchant then? or stick to crit/haste for weapons, sorry for asking such dumb stuff last time i played m+ seriously was in uldir
spice surge
Frost mage are also very low apm
tropic ocean
np
currently im usign new weapon enchant and quick navigation
it might be just feelycraft but the new one seems to proc a lot
spice surge
With their tunnel spec, but yeah #wow-general
New one is really good yeah
Unsuprisingly
zenith gust
@@spice surge Dunno what apm means. If it means it sucks then i agree
spice surge
Actions per minute
tropic ocean
in my last dungeon +16 underrot
sullen pagoda
tropic ocean
my force enchant had uptime of 13m53.4% compared to quick navi 4m26 18%
sullen pagoda
m+ crit? 
cobalt pelican
i went from like 55 cpm to 64 between jaina kills from lucid
guess that's super anecdotal but eh
spice surge
Well CPM on warcraftlogs is slightly skewed since mut is counted twice
sullen pagoda
im not socketed for crit tho 
rigid mango
dim yacht
i was surprised crit is my lowest stats on my sims
you think blood would make crit more valuable
even vers is worth more than crit for me rn
carmine valve
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
balmy cradle
is there any hope for exsanguinate in m+? if i remember correctly it snapshottet stats right? does it snapshot the bote essence LUL?
cobalt pelican
and if you miss you only mut with 1 dagger and lose
rigid mango
Exsang sucks
spice surge
@balmy cradle It doesnt. It only snapshotted haste for the duration
balmy cradle
ah damn
sullen pagoda
@cobalt pelican ok now stop bringing back cata warrior ptsd
rigid mango
Only use I see for exsang is last boss KR 3 SS cheese
spice surge
And no not really, exsang is just falling behind
balmy cradle
yeah seems too good
tropic ocean
@dim yacht why so?
obviously as bote gives u +25% crit chance crit will have less value for you
like its the logic consequence
balmy cradle
crimson tempest still omegadead too... sad time
dim yacht
yeah but it increases crit damage, and the minor stacks proc on crits
so shouldnt it increase crit value?
carmine valve
I loved exang sin, it felt more engaging, TB sin is so stupid
rigid mango
balmy cradle
they should just give ct energy reg LUL
tropic ocean
@dim yacht but it also givesu 25% crit chance
spice surge
@dim yacht Yes, but most of the power of the essence comes from the increased crit chance
tropic ocean
and the passive makes u stack crit as well
so u will naturally have higher crit with it so
other stats give more dmg output than putting more crit on top
dim yacht
i guess, i just wasnt expecting my crit to be less than vers haha
spice surge
Since the +crit damage bonus is only for 5s and the crit chance is for 10s
tribal marlin
Finally 4/4 benthic boyz! https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tTwVGFAjoeF9bm13zcn8HP
spice surge
Vers has gone up because they buffed damage procs (like trinkets, benthic gear and cos legs) by like 40% in 8.2
And those only scale with vers (and crit too tbf)
dim yacht
oh that makes sense
tropic ocean
don't forget about the?upto 360 passive crit u get
unreal perch
this channel always reminds me just how behind on gear I am lol
balmy cradle
if im not raiding mythic should i wait for specific mythic azerite pieces or gamble on random ones for ilvl?
spice surge
Random
balmy cradle
but in the case that i dont get shrouded or echoing its gg dead if i want to play m+ no :o?
spice surge
Theres 6 different azerite pieces per slot, and for the cost of one specific you can buy 4 (5 if you scrap them) random ones
But if you dont have any 445s its definitely better to just get a random
balmy cradle
hm k ic
balmy cradle
still so weird that m+ has only vendor and pvp has only chest drop
tropic ocean
I used 405 eb ss helm like for 15or 16 ids 😄
balmy cradle
also should my group do a +15 first on wednesday or +4 get essence, +7 get rank2 then +15? not sure if doing +15 first lets you skip to rank2 instantly
tropic ocean
my plan for wednesday is to just grind max base ilvl dungeon until raid
im not sure it will be very easy to do +15 asap for most ppl
spice surge
We dont know if you can skip r2
tribal marlin
I still have 200 mana pearl to farm next week ...
spice surge
So we let the beta players (NA) figure it out tommorow
tribal marlin
I'm so tired of this shit
I did the Emissary (25 mana pearl) today with 4 toons to gamble the gloves ...
balmy cradle
@spice surge good plan
carmine valve
Alliance needs all the help we can get
balmy cradle
no one of you shows up in zuldazar cant complete my call to arms
vapid scarab
why on earth would you be gambling the gloves
unreal perch
sockets?
tribal marlin
Benthic gloves with sockets
vapid scarab
so you're telling me you have boots, bracers, and belt all fully upgraded?
with sockets?
because that's the only reason you would roll anything else
tribal marlin
I have Bootes, bracers, belt 415 and gloves 410 yes
unreal perch
wouldn't the cost be more effective to get them to a certain uncapped point then get another piece with a socket?
tribal marlin
bracers are 420 tho
vapid scarab
and you have sockets on all of those?
unreal perch
like the cost to get 425 is a lot of other upgrades you could get
tribal marlin
yes all socketed
sour wraith
Cyclo still good or should I swap it?
civic palm
Still good, dmg was not touched.
sour wraith
So we just use it differently then
unreal perch
yup
vast forum
how are gloves simming
sour wraith
Cool, thanks!
vast forum
from benthic
unreal perch
still does like over 200k damage
vast forum
considering maybe going for gloves before upgrading my belt/bracer to 425
they're both 420
vapid scarab
gloves oversim by a lot
vast forum
and boots 425
spice surge
So getting the best ones with sockets is signifcantly harder
scarlet sequoia
@tribal marlin cant be simming with that trinket its cheating now
vapid scarab
because 90% of the time in an actual scenario the gloves heal instead of dmg
vast forum
i mean, there's 4 different boots @spice surge
unreal perch
is crit boots without a socket flat out better than other boots with one?
I have to imagine yes
rough agate
700 manapearls and cant get boots D:
unreal perch
ya I suppose that's a fair response lol
vast forum
the droplets that you send out with the gloves
any1 tested exactly how they work?
like, what % of droplets actually damage the boss in a raid scenario
sand whale
fun police are at it again
spice surge
As long as they're not overhealing its actually fairly nice anyway, not worth getting before other benthic for sure, but still decent
Lucid dream heal for example is absolutely insane
vast forum
i'm just wondering if i should roll them
spice surge
If you have nothing else to use your pearls on 🤷
vast forum
if the effect doesn't outvalue base mythic gloves, then there's no point i think
unreal perch
it's still a great trinket
vast forum
i mean, i will have enough pearls to get my belt/boots/bracer to 425 by mythic release
but idk how many extra i'll have
inner wedge
is mechagon trinket still very good for muti?
dark stream
Think I went overboard and wasted 330 mana pearls last night trying to get the boots w a socket
vast forum
should have used alt manapearls
dark stream
Did that too 😭
unreal perch
Wish I had more alts up for that
really shoulda seen it coming there'd be a good use for them all
inner wedge
you don't really need to waste on waist:)
tribal marlin
Did they just pushed a udate on raidbot ?
I did a sim like 20mn ago it was 37k now 35.2k xD
olive wharf
Should have for the trinket.
quasi pewter
ye nightly was updated 10 mins ago
tribal marlin
what did they changed ?
olive wharf
So my guess is trying to better adjust essences and the red card nerf
unreal perch
it still is
spice surge
Literally only the punchcard trinket
quasi pewter
trinket only
spice surge
That was the only change
olive wharf
I'd say "sim yourself"
olive wharf
But you should know that by now
unreal perch
the punchard is still good outside of being able to use it off GCD and off trinket CD
hollow moth
depends on ur other trinkets, raidbots is saying its not worht using anymore for me.
quasi pewter
apl might be using it weirdly now with the update
tribal marlin
we need to change the apl
unreal perch
huh really?
blazing matrix
what nerf happend
unreal perch
trinket shares the use CD with other use trinkets and it's on the GCD now
spice surge
I cba logging in, but theres a line added to the spelldata of worldvein which says that it shouldnt break stealth anymore
olive wharf
People hear nerf and freak out.
Cyclotronic Blast red card got nerfed. You can't cast during it anymore.
unreal perch
oh ya and that
olive wharf
Just that.
tribal marlin
you mean it share 2mn cd or 20sec ?
unreal perch
20sec
quasi pewter
like all use trinkets are supposed to work
unreal perch
ya
olive wharf
So never using it for Sin as intended because lurker is OP yay
quasi pewter
people already saying "fun detected" when its literally just a fix because it didnt work correctly
smh
olive wharf
This isn't a fun detected, but they have nerfed a ton of fun this expansion.
It was lurker before, definitely staying lurker now :p
Hoping I get a non-use red card (from Mechagon tomorrow)
unreal perch
You can still use both, just depends on what the sims say
unreal perch
20sec CD doesn't just make the thing useless
it still hits like over 100k dps on it's own
olive wharf
No but locking you out for over 3s makes it very bleh
Iris does that and it does 100k+ in an AoE
wooden fog
im hearing that potion of unbridled fury is better than focused resolve, is this correct?
fleet anchor
Will be looking into some sim/APL stuff with it tonight to see if it's still good if we weave it in somewhere
Doesn't seem like it will be hard to get it in the rotation after Vendetta
While pooling
olive wharf
I'm sure you can, I'm just Feelycrafting here.
fleet anchor
With the current APL it's probably not very good since it will eat a lot of Vendetta time
unreal perch
iris does 100k aoe or single target dps?
fleet anchor
Will need to look at adjusting it
olive wharf
AoE
unreal perch
well ya but for single fights?
unreal perch
punchcard is like 100k dps to a single target..
olive wharf
Um
meager nebula
pretty pointless to compare an aoe and a st use
olive wharf
Cyclo is a ~120k damage over 2.5s and a ???s cast
unreal perch
over the duration of the punchcard it does about 250k damage for me atm
tribal marlin
actually APL is not using the trinket correctly, it will be change no worrie
unreal perch
maybe 200k
olive wharf
I'm not saying it's bad, but you also lose all other abilities during that time
olive wharf
200k? It was showing like 20-28 for me earlier
unreal perch
because it's not like sin ever sits on down time lol
tribal marlin
this is what it should look
meager nebula
the trinket still outputs higher damage than a normal rotation, outside of burst periods
drifting cloud
so 200 dps nerf? OH no the sky is falling
olive wharf
RNG ability gets thrown at you during that window. Can't SS, can't sprint, etc.
drifting cloud
tribal marlin
quasi pewter
change isnt much if ur not overcapping energy during the time, other than only being able to use it 20 sec after fight start
olive wharf
200 DPS is probably enough to not be worth as much
To some people
depends what they have
olive wharf
"depends what they have"
broken kettle
what do we think about Force Multiplier?
unreal perch
I mean you'd use it when you aren't going to be over capping energy
drifting cloud
maybe you just have no clue how other trinkets sim ..
unreal perch
you're obviously not going to pop vendetta then use the trinket during it
fleet anchor
@tribal marlin Thanks for taking a look already, I was about to start testing
What condition are you using atm?
unreal perch
oh hey you can use lurker with vendetta, then when vendetta ends you have punchcard
scarlet sequoia
thats so smart dude wtf
unreal perch
it's crazy how you can line up skills like that!
(honestly take no credit it's been said like 5 times so far)
tribal marlin
!debuff.vendetta.up&!debuff.toxic_blade.up&energy<90 @fleet anchor
fleet anchor
Ok I will use that as a starting point
I want to check a couple other things
Will get a change in shortly regardless
faint harness
check cancelling it early too
olive wharf
@drifting cloud https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u2vso15a1VM7tZCnK6CQqb
Totally don't have a clue.
Like I said, it depends.
tribal marlin
It a quick chnge I didn't dive into sample sequence already
fleet anchor
I don't think that is likely to ever be worth it since the ticks are really large and you've already eaten the static cast time
olive wharf
Even 400 book is simming higher.
faint harness
But i did some dummy hitting with the new changes, it doesnt feel totally shit to just use right as the 20 trinket CD thing drops
unreal perch
As far as I see it, punchcard still fills the downtime we have nicely when we're just regening energy and on CD
drifting cloud
he just linked you a sim where he made an apl sim change and it was up 1.5k from default already
fleet anchor
I also need to add some check to avoid overlap with Lucid
strange python
couldn't you attack while the trinket was channelling before
faint harness
yes
strange python
did they hotfix it?
faint harness
but it might just have been a bug
unreal perch
like no one is capping their energy in 3 seconds while it's channeling
scarlet sequoia
strange python
are you still using it after the rupture?
faint harness
lucid major**
no
i use 2 use trinkets still
and use first trinket with vendetta
and then this trinket after vendetta is over
fleet anchor
I will post the final findings in about 15-20 minutes in the tc-updates channel
strange python
cause youre gonna get 60 energy from vendetta
and then 15 seconds of lucid energy
fleet anchor
Once I can test a few more things
strange python
so you're gonna cap if you use it in vendetta window
faint harness
yea makaveli, but there wont be any point where i personally run lucid major
unreal perch
oh btw, rule of thumb is try and get 3 envenoms in each TB right?
drifting cloud
2
unreal perch
i don't even have the gcd for 4 lol
strange python
depends if you get lucky with procs
unreal perch
even with infinite energy
strange python
like
unreal perch
or crit I guess
shy dust
Crit every MUT
drifting cloud
if you have cps when you use tb you can get 4
shy dust
And it can
rotund pier
did punch card get nerfed?
strange python
sometimes there's that bit where you bleeds are gonna drop or you get 1 more envenom in your tb window
unreal perch
that's good to know though, I always get 2 but sometimes struggle to get 3 so was curious
unreal perch
ya I always focus bleeds first
strange python
the whole skill in this spec is managing tb tbh
and getting as much envenoms as possible in the window
nothing else is hard
unreal perch
I was worried I was just being an idiot not getting 3 every TB lol
strange python
or energy procs
fleet anchor
tbh some of the TB micromanagement is counter-productive though
fleet anchor
I see a lot of chat about the order of GCDs pre and post-TB
But a lot of it ignores the opportunity cost of delaying TB by 1-2 GCDs
unreal perch
and always 2 garrote's in a vanish?
fleet anchor
Which is often a loss even if that specific TB window is better
strange python
how do you like to do it then
rigid mango
You mean to never delay TB?