haha
#assassination
prisma oyster
faint harness
Top advice
strange python
drop the wife and the bgs and keep the dog
winter moss
@crisp steppe if you ever say something like drop the dog again im gonna fight you
mint kindle
@winter moss I don't see it in the pins?!
winter moss
and move that to #off-topic then
faint harness
crisp steppe
bro u aint keanu reeves
faint harness
Thats not..
winter moss
@mint kindle
faint harness
Force multiplier is quite good, but sim it
winter moss
answer most of the cases
mint kindle
I thought the pin wasn't uptodate tbh
solid nova
Simming will never be the out dated answer to individual character optimisation 
The original message is old, but the edited content within it is updated as often as possible
Eg:
prisma oyster
if you want to sim for mythic+, is 'dungeon slice" the best way to do it or should I stick to simming patchwerk?
or 3 targets or smth?
rigid mango
Both are meh
Just learn the prios instead, they're quite straoght forwards for m+
Crit->mastery/vers depending on traits
Eb/ttk/ss
tropic ocean
sim 6 mob 40 second ish
rigid mango
Dice/spyglass + lurk/plumage
dusky tinsel
next week is when we farm +5/6's yeah? Think it drops 410 baseline iirc
crisp steppe
415 I think
dusky tinsel
that wont happen until mythic release
crisp steppe
yeah if they don't cap it. they have done so in recent times
drowsy scroll
Are the benthic gloves simming correctly? They seem to have a high ppm and dps with the droplet proc
rigid mango
Well then no reason to do it
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
dusky tinsel
Yeah that's how it was last tier, you'd farm +6's and get a ton of TF gear the week before mythic dropped
valid spoke
When do you use Blood of the Enemy in your opener?
dusky tinsel
@valid spoke during vendetta so you benefit from the crit bonus
crisp steppe
after vendetta before tb
dusky tinsel
^
valid spoke
Will overcap energy with lust on pull, but I guess that's okay then
graceful shale
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
mint kindle
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
glass matrix
For assassin is there a set rotation that's the go to or is it all situational? I looked at the website in pins but for someone that hasn't touched it before the amount of rotations is a bit overwhelming?
jaunty plinth
generally, keep your poisons and bleeds up, but let the bleeds run out if they were buffed and you aren't refreshing with that buff, then re-apply them. mutilate to finishers, and read the specific parts about the talent combos you are using
the parts to focus on are where to use your buffs, and talented abilities
glass matrix
Okay that's a lot easier to go with rather than the website thanks lillo
stark mirage
I didn't play last week, am I a week behind on some essence rank cause of it?
jaunty plinth
once you've got that down, then adding in little tweaks will certainly improve on that
glass matrix
Spot on thanks lillo I'm mainly playing outlaw atm but it's for single target I want to learn assassin and have a bit of a change also
For assassin it's crit mastery haste vers or ?
old quartz
winter moss
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
prisma oyster
@stark mirage the rep ones i guess?
steep obsidian
lol they changed stormwall you can't step to the boss anymore it just makes you fall off the platform
distant lava
Rep and follower levels Id say
steep obsidian
thanks for undocu changes blizz
astral tangle
Anyone have any tips for a guy who's garbage at mut but if trying to improve?
solid nova
Okay, to clarify some FAQs and allow the liberal use of
Usage of Lucid Dream / Blood of the Enemy Essence
Lucid Dreams:
Don't pair it with Vendetta. Delay it for the moment you start starving energy during your Vendetta window. This will be right after the Toxic Blade window, ensuring having enough energy for the remainder of Vendetta. However when Bloodlust/Heroism is used on pull delay it even further. Use it when starved and can't cast anything else.
Blood of the Enemy:
At the moment Blood of the Enemy is only good for smaller AOE pulls up to 7-8 targets. It provides more Echoing Blades procs (still only up to 5) in packs this size. Best used either after garroting 3 enemies or before using Fan of Knives back to back.
For ST Blood should be used and paired with Vendetta.
"But what Benthic gear should I get?"
Boots: Crit damage
Waist: 2% damage to aberrations (Orgozoa and Za'qul)
Wrist: Frost damage
Roll for these with a socket see: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/benthic-gear-effects-nazjatar
arctic walrus
lucid + blood sims better for me as well so it's nothing out of the ordinary
spice surge
It all depends on what ranks you have
fairly sure the wowhead recommendations are based on rank 3s
?
Its not unreasonable that blood is better at rank 2
And flame is better at rank 3, since the passive dot stacks then
undone pumice
why did the MA opener changed from muti rupture muti to garotte muti rapture
solid nova
It didnt?
royal lantern
it was always garrote mulitate ruptrue?
sullen pagoda
it was never muti 1st lol
solid nova
Garrote was always first
undone pumice
for ma?
solid nova
Yes
sullen pagoda
for anything
solid nova
Swap your talents any way you like
Garrote will be first regardless
Idk what you read but it has never been otherwise
solid nova
Probably initial damage feelcraft vs energy regen
arctic walrus
Simming 9 gems takes forever 
solid nova
Yeah gem sims are 
prisma oyster
muti sims higher than garotte on fights that last 3 seconds!
crisp steppe
undone pumice
u get chance for 4 cp rapture then u mutti into garotte+ cds then u are at 5 cp in the start of your toxic blade
but its rng i guess
nimble tartan
I toxic blade at full combo points
spice surge
You get more energy
solid nova
You get more
spice surge
Since garrote ticks
solid nova
Venomous wounds
undone pumice
i mean i remember watching some logs in the start of the bfd
solid nova
Just because its a good log
sullen pagoda
someone didnt read what MA even does 
solid nova
Doesnt mean its correct
undone pumice
how come MA promotes u to use your gcds in mutti
sullen pagoda
well i had 96% taloc with playing without poisons for almost 2mins on taloc, should u play without poisons? @undone pumice
arctic walrus
You realize MA is relevant outside of the opener, giving you 2 muts and 1 env
sullen pagoda
yes it is
undone pumice
but i say if u wana get max cp in open
solid nova
And omitting garrote from your opener is a good argument?
spice surge
In short, the extra cp is not worth the loss of energy and damage
undone pumice
u dont u just delay it for 3 gcds
solid nova
And its not worth
ripe nimbus
Hey guys why did that one rogue from method open with mut??? 🤔
solid nova
The loss on energy
sullen pagoda
3gcds is 3 ticks of damage and energy gone for no gain
undone pumice
crit muti>garotte dmg quite sure
spice surge
Maybe damage wise, but the energy is important too
ruby idol
Mut does no dmg
solid nova
Than your chance at a mut crit
arctic walrus
crit mut << garrote dmg + energy + extra gcd inside env window
nimble tartan
Mut does a lot but i don’t think it makes sense not to garrote off the bat
misty tusk
If you use FoK 3 times before pull lts 100% crit chanse
solid nova
Basing "good play" of "This one high log i saw" is literally the worst case argument
crisp steppe
feel free to do it your way. if you want to convince others bring some sims
sullen pagoda
@undone pumice your argument bases of logic that you lose 1 mutilate if u dont mutilate on start but you dont lose mutilate at all
undone pumice
i mean i dont rly care about the log
arctic walrus
tbh, I've had messed up openers but ended with high logs
winter moss
im reading this over and over again but i come to the some conclusion everytime
solid nova
Then why mention it as a reason to not garrote on opener?
undone pumice
i thought since it was something i was watching then that it was the way to go since it was comon thing
real bay
yikes dude
undone pumice
not just a log
winter moss
are you right in the head
solid nova
Its not a common thing
sullen pagoda
its not a common thing
solid nova
Not common at all
solid nova
No me
ripe nimbus
That one rogue from method opens with mut
arctic walrus
Richard said it first 
solid nova
@ripe nimbus Ye we got you the first time, you can troll somewhere else
winter moss
because perfecto opens with mut the whole world should do it
undone pumice
i dont even think that the log was from method
winter moss
🆗 🆒
solid nova
It doesnt matter where it came from
winter moss
it's just not right
undone pumice
it was just some top logs in the start of bod
solid nova
Mutilating your opener and omitting garrote is wrong
winter moss
great
real bay
not the first time top guild x player does something different even when it's wrong by math
nimble tartan
Lay out your opener for me yikes
solid nova
Again, you cant base good logs as good play
Pad your way to a good log = he didnt garrote in opener = must be right
No.
undone pumice
no maybe the oppener needs u to get lucky to make it best oppen
astral tangle
PARSES ARE EVERYTHING
winter moss
parse culture and actually understanding the class dont go hand in hand it seems
solid nova
@undone pumice Modify the apl to show me 5minute fight durations with opening with mutilate and opening with garrote
Otherwise, theres no point continuing
sullen pagoda
especially dont watch start of tier logs @undone pumice low amount of parses = any noob can get lucky crits and log high
arctic walrus
Dude you think the guy who opens with mut can modify the apl? 
solid nova
real bay
It's just a feelycraft opener
quasi pewter
imagine thinking something is good because a player in a good guild / log does it
thats a @undone pumice
crisp steppe
multiclassing god perfecto
solid nova
But please continue to explain the opener is wrong and the TCers are incorrect because of a log you saw 🍿
solid nova
36k 
ruby idol
Yall goin wild on this guy
quasi pewter
you upped the wrong belt
undone pumice
i dont rly care u guy can have your opinion about all that but the difrence is so small probably not rly matters
solid nova
@arctic walrus COD me that kimbuls ty
sullen pagoda
feelycrafting 🔫 @ruby idol
real bay
lmao, if you say x is better you provide proof 
solid nova
I mean you can have your opinion too
Its just wrong
When we have theorycrafters that can show you otherwise
sullen pagoda
@undone pumice math isnt an opinion its precise right or wrong
undone pumice
I say it was looking better at a time i was checking ST logs
sullen pagoda
there is no maybe that or this
solid nova
And i say it again, logs are not a metric of good play
undone pumice
no but i assume that they know how to oppen
ruby idol
Feelycrafting owns @sullen pagoda
undone pumice
cause u say so? i say it probably is so minimal it wont matter
solid nova
Im not sure how many times i can say logs arent a metric of perfect play
quasi pewter
its minimal but still worse
polar cape
Rng can make you seems you know your stuff too
real bay
many things are minimal
undone pumice
i dont argue on that
polar cape
Aka legion poison bomb
solid nova
I mean you're saying that we shouldnt garrote opener, whilst showing no clear understanding of how MA or Venomous wounds works, on the basis of a top log and proof "i cba to get"
nimble tartan
Garrote is low impact regardless in terms of our damage breakdown as ma with st traits but you have to have it up anytime and why not as first gcd. Without garrote first you would either mut mut rup or mut rup mut as you suggest. The scenario with mut mut rup into a garrote seems ok to me but this only happens you don’t get crits which means it’s banking off not getting value from MA. The next scenario is mut rup mut and depending on if that 3rd mut crits you could be at 4cp then you garrote and have to tb at full cps.
winter moss
yikes what is your point here, several people have told you otherwise, if you dont wanna admit to it. ok it's your choice. but dont annoy those several people and block spec channel for ACTUAL questions
nimble tartan
Therefore
spice surge
@arctic walrus Why did you uprgrade that belt lmao
real bay
but there's always right or wrong
undone pumice
i just asked a question and u say it was never a thing
sullen pagoda
many things are "minimal" but it all piles up
nimble tartan
I rest my case
arctic walrus
Dawg I had a 415 with bad stats
undone pumice
and i say i thought it was a thing since i observed it on logs at some point
nimble tartan
Please Venmo me 10 dollars
spice surge
Instead of bracers/boots/abberation belt
solid nova
@nimble tartan Dont think i didnt see
arctic walrus
no socket too
solid nova
TB at 5 is viable af btw
spice surge
wat? Just gem em with socket
sullen pagoda
@undone pumice you should do my opener aka "looking at 2nd screen not even stealthed struggle" https://i.imgur.com/fe390Er.png
young portal
Would you guys recommend becoming a patreon with raidbots? Just to make life easier?
solid nova
Yes
quasi pewter
ye raidbots premium is totally worth it
nimble tartan
It is fine I do it sometimes that’s just how it be bro I’ll die on that hill
arctic walrus
Can we see your logs @undone pumice :^)
undone pumice
i did not say iv seen one of the logs i say i observed it on multiple occasions now that might be for whatever stupid reason on their part or maybe it was something that had to do with rng
sullen pagoda
tame cobalt
crisp steppe
gonna be a yikes from me dawg
simple meteor
at the start of each raid tier patreon is worth 100%%
arctic walrus
Imagine incorporating rng into your rotation
crisp steppe
@simple meteor yeah thats what I end up doin
young portal
Cheers fellas👍
sullen pagoda
i have my moments of being alt tabbed on pull timer
simple meteor
the waiting time is insane
guys this new crit pot takes you out of stealth it sucks :(
astral tangle
Why argue about openers with the guys who make them?
quasi pewter
crit pot is garbage
simple meteor
when you pop it yeah
simple meteor
i already hate it
sullen pagoda
thats a big yikes from me
quasi pewter
completely unplayable with subterfuge
simple meteor
same
quasi pewter
and also doesnt stack to 20
sullen pagoda
is it even any good compared to flat agi one
nimble tartan
Ez clap
simple meteor
tooltip says 5% aswell idk if it's wrong
solid nova
Yeah it is
quasi pewter
its good if it worked
worldly iron
just pot and go into stealth?
sullen pagoda
thinking someone wont prepull
nimble tartan
it’s not like it won’t get value if you can 2nd pot it
nimble tartan
Still gonna pop off
sullen pagoda
spriests sniping that early void form 24/7
real bay
how did it get to live like that is the question 
sullen pagoda
my favorite prepull
nimble tartan
just pot 1 sec early resteath ez
arctic walrus
Same @nimble tartan from slurp?
nimble tartan
Gang gang
simple meteor
haven't tried it
arctic walrus
How long does the crit pot have to last on your target to be worth? Haven't looked into it at all
nimble tartan
yo tfw you forget to stealth on the opener but this weirdo scuffed opener poppin off for no reason and u hitting record numbers and you realize nothing matters
crisp steppe
then u look at ur log and see ur 1 dps of rank 1
arctic walrus
What about those openers where your tank doesn't care you asked for 30s so you go in without cds but still end up first somehow
simple meteor
haha
nimble tartan
anyone else hold tb for every vendetta vanish rotation no matta what
Like my status
hollow stone
Why would you ever tb outside of vend. Thats just madness 🤔
nimble tartan
I sit on Tb and I Tb at 5 sometimes I’m off the rails bro I can’t be held down
simple meteor
guys should I pop blood of the enemy on cd or wait for 2nd vendetta
sick pasture
How is it possible that rank 2 lucid minor is a dps lose over rank 1; Source: Bloodmallet
arctic walrus
No man can handle that much energy regen
quasi pewter
there is no dps difference between rank 2 and rank 1 lucid
its target error
minor
simple meteor
:(
sick pasture
Oh okay
nimble tartan
Sims 10 less how do I downgrade my essence
hollow stone
Doesnt rank 2 make the cd longer? How is more energy regen worse. Idkidk
Last longer**
arctic walrus
It's so marginal that's why I believe it doesn't matter
quasi pewter
minor
vast forum
rank 2 minor vs rank 1 minor is margin of error, they do the exact same thing
quasi pewter
not major
vast forum
it just increases the healing
tame cobalt
Is highborne compedium any good? i heared it sims better than it is?
arctic walrus
Everytime I can't spend my energy fast enough during lucid windows I feel my rogue ancestors staring down at me in shame
vast monolith
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lusty narwhal
solid nova
@simple schooner What are you after chief?
arctic walrus
I too would be embarassed to show my face here ever again
past marten
Just made a sim of 445 gear with a combination of Blood 3/Lucid 3/Flame 2 (as Neck 60 is going to be quite hard still when Mythic hits)
In that specific case, it looks like Blood and Lucid are almost interchangeable as major essences with Lucid major and Flame minor not trailing too far behind
humble karma
Hey lads, the boys on the outlaw thread are telling me that sin is still pretty decent in m+ for aoe? I don't raid (all I enjoy is m+) so say it is so? ^_^
solid nova
It is so
past marten
^
solid nova
@past marten Would you not factor in weapon enchants/stat weights/sockets?
past marten
Unoptimised, true. Working on ironing that out.
Question being: How many sockets would you consider as "realistic" for such a calculation
solid nova
Yeah thats RNG so i get that point, but socketed benthic gear would compete with some of those slots for example
humble karma
Excellent. Any info? I'm good with single target but come aoe i suck. A guide/youtube around on m+ sinning?
past marten
I can throw in the 425 benthic belt and feet for good measure?
cobalt gyro
also you should try the sim with condenced life-force since that's quite a strong essence as well
past marten
Problem is that you won't get the rank 3 before week 3/4 Mythic
solid nova
For benthic
past marten
Will try the Rank 2 in there, but I am doubtful concerning Life-Force
Won't hurt though, you're right
Going to update in half an hour - BG now :^)
quiet totem
pretty hard to get a socket on the right piece though
past marten
Pretty hard to roll the 3 best mythic pieces also. This exercise is more about the scaling than anything, I guess.
*azerite pieces, not Mythic pieces.
spice surge
I mean, with how cheap benthic pieces are to buy it shouldnt take too long
Since the expensive and time consuming part of benthic is to upgrade them
cobalt gyro
yes but you can farm pearls
spice surge
Well yes, but you dont upgrade ones without sockets
past marten
Is that belt actually a thing @cobalt gyro ?
spice surge
So it should be like 50-100 pearls for the actual piece (assuming you're unlucky)
cobalt gyro
yes
past marten
I thought only the Abberation version was worth farming for 😮
cobalt gyro
you can use that belt against anything
spice surge
I dont think that belt is worth it. Since you want the belt from azshara anyway
cobalt gyro
well, sure
spice surge
Sure if you already have the wrists and boots
rigid mango
Apparentpy the wrists are nutty too
cobalt gyro
but i wanted it for the stats + socket more than anything
haste/crit + a hole is hard to argue with
past marten
Which ones @rigid mango
rigid mango
Frost damage
cobalt gyro
what's the ppm of the frost dmg proc
cobalt gyro
guess i'll go check
rigid mango
Wise*
spice surge
1.5
quiet totem
rolled boots 30 times no socket and only crit boots twice
rigid mango
They simmed 600 higher or smth
cobalt gyro
the # of required pearls is kinda irrelevant
quiet totem
how rolls did yo do @cobalt gyro
cobalt gyro
like 3 lol
quiet totem
for 2 sockets on the right pieces wow
past marten
what's their name, @rigid mango ?
rigid mango
No clue
past marten
The version in Wowhead doesn't pop up in Raidbots
rigid mango
They should be easily findable
quiet totem
although waist technically not the "right" one
cobalt gyro
well
quiet totem
boots great though
past marten
Nevermind, found them
quiet totem
if not raiding then all the benthic effects are irrelevant
cobalt gyro
correct. i wanted the stats + the sockets
quiet totem
ok yeah rolling just for a socket is not too hard
tiny arrow
I got the belt with socket from a random bentthic belt piece 
spice surge
Idk what the exact chance of a socket is, but i assume its somewhere in the 10-20%
humble karma
what info do u guys have on aoe/m+ builds?
naive ridge
bouyght 30x boots and didnt get with socket xD
cobalt gyro
i just got lucky and happened to be decent pieces
spice surge
Which means you're gonna need to spend on average like 100 pearls to get the right piece
cobalt gyro
you can just farm algans for pearls
spice surge
More with boots, less with belt (only 2 belts available VS 4 boots)
quasi pewter
algans?
cobalt gyro
yes
quasi pewter
whts that
spice surge
Mobs in naz
tiny arrow
Sssh, don't tell everyone @cobalt gyro
cobalt gyro
everywhere
quasi pewter
no specific farm spot or?
cobalt gyro
nope, they spawn just about anywhere
quiet totem
wait as in non rare mobs?
quasi pewter
alright already got belt 415 boots 400 time to get them up i guess
past marten
11.5 mio iteration sim, I am going in boys!
quiet totem
yeah I have seen them around I didn't know they had that loot table
past marten
Blood 3/Lucid 3/Flame 2/Life-Force 2, Benthic Belt/Wrist/Feet with socket, Offhand with socket, mastery/haste/crit gem enchants for rings + weapons and sockets
quasi pewter
weakaura or something would be nice to notify when one is nearby
so i dont miss any of those sweet manapearls
cobalt gyro
tbh, i found a decent amount all over zin azshari
quasi pewter
how many do they drop at a time?
cobalt gyro
i've seen a max of 6
spice surge
Most of them are like 2-4 though
urban junco
That's pretty good
quasi pewter
420->425 upgrade is 100 pearls right
urban junco
yes
past marten
385 ->425 is 200 pearls
quiet totem
yeah the last 5 ilvl hurts
ripe nimbus
This is very #wow-general look guys I'm zine
past marten
So if we take @spice surge 's 100 pearls to get the right piece, it takes 300 pearls for each BiS item
quasi pewter
so i need 320 for both 425 i guess
past marten
900 pearls for 3 items
spice surge
You dont really need all 3 though, belt is sortof excessive, depending on how fast you progress
quasi pewter
spice surge
And having all 3 at 420 is 600 pearls
quasi pewter
well 2nd to last boss is aberration no
rigid mango
Yeah
spice surge
Well yes, but the belt from azshara is better
past marten
Especially since it's only two bosses who are abberations
rigid mango
I think it's 5/7?
spice surge
If everybody is using that effect
cobalt gyro
yes but he's saying that extra dmg is gonna matter more if you're doing early prog
spice surge
Not really
cobalt gyro
if you're with an average team that won't get there until half the raid is 440
does that bit matter
spice surge
I mean if you're not gonna have many storm effects when you progress, then the belt is better
gentle path
when we hit 55 what are you guys doing for greater / minor? BoTE in major and lucid dreams in minor?
plucky ether
do those algans have a daily loot lockout, or can you get multiple pearls from the same type per day?
spice surge
But i think you dont need many storm pieces in your raid to make it better than 2%
quasi pewter
well if you can farm pearls then its really no problem getting all 3 pieces to 425 anyway
so might aswell in case you dont get azshara belt at all during progress
ripe nimbus
Sim ur self if u don't have R3 BotE the answer is more likely no and if u do the answer is maybe sim ur self
quiet totem
The frost wrists didn't seem that good. Proc rate was low. Simming vs the puffer fish one was similar on ST too
and puffer is AoE
hollow junco
I don't really see pearl farming for 425 benthic to be a major value add. if you have a weak belt/boots/bracer slot then using the pearls you're getting during your rep/AP grind anyway is definitely a good call, but i doubt that many people are going to end up wearing these benthic pieces during their guild's mythic progression
ripe nimbus
Enchants are a crutch
past marten
No, the gear input I gave is Mastery enchant on MH and Force-Multiplier
Haste Enchant on Rings and Mastery gems
quiet totem
Benthic boots WITHOUT socket are better than 440 LW boots with socket in the raid so...
past marten
For some reason it doesn't show though
ripe nimbus
Who raids tho.. M+ spameroonie all day erry day
spice surge
@hollow junco Well why people wear them for progress? For most slots a 425 with socket is better or equal than base mythic ilvls
Sure when you get 450 ones with socket you'll replace em (not boots though, the +crit boots are better than 455 sockets)
hollow junco
don't get me wrong i think they're great, nobody's arguing the value of a socket
past marten
@hollow junco I don't get your statement
cobalt gyro
sockets are insane
quasi pewter
there is no way im not wearing either belt or boots
past marten
The items are better than any 445 item without special effect
quasi pewter
if i get both to 425
past marten
So you won't even replace them if you get a Mythic drop in that slot
quiet totem
Yeah I am saying it is not just sockets the effects on some are strong too
hollow junco
i just think that people who have "I MUST HAVE THREE 425 BENTHIC PIECES ASAP OR ELSE" should consider putting that effort somewhere else, you can get probably two 425 benthic pieces pretty much accidentally before mythic week
solid nova
But the effort required to get them is minimal lol
quasi pewter
people like to minmax
quasi pewter
what else will i do
hollow junco
i'd farm AP instead
past marten
GET A LIFE
quasi pewter
farm ap? no reason to go higher than 57 really
strange python
400 pearls and still no socket 😡
quasi pewter
maybe 60
past marten
@hollow junco The only gain from AP is Stamina at 57 and Flame at 60
solid nova
@quasi pewter 20 pearls 
past marten
But farming to 60 is insane compared to farming Benthic gear
hollow junco
flame at 60 is what's on my mind
ripe nimbus
U get R3 CoF at 60 and that's poggers
cobalt gyro
well
ripe nimbus
So there is a reason
cobalt gyro
the gain from farming AP is actually
quiet totem
Yeah that is very strong but fuck getting 60
cobalt gyro
at 60 you get azerite empowerment from heroic gear.
quasi pewter
few days of island spamming and 60 is easy with all the passive ap you get
astral tangle
Wat
past marten
I disagree too
astral tangle
REALLY disagree. Haha
cobalt gyro
people in guilds like limit are basically non-stop farming and they're only at a max of 59
quasi pewter
so yes 60 is very doable
spice surge
But unless you're farming for that, its probably more worth to get blood
cobalt gyro
right but all i'm really saying is
the top guilds are putting in a shitload of effort for it
past marten
I agree with @spice surge
past marten
If you are not going for 65, you shouldn't hard farm AP
cobalt gyro
my guild put a "just try to be 55 by raid" 🤷
past marten
I think if you are going for 65
rigid mango
60 for mythic seems pretty doable
past marten
You just any emotions by now
hollow junco
i don't think it's going to be that easy to get neck 60, i think it's going to take effort, which is why i think that's where i'd rather put my time than targeting pearls for a third 425 socketed piece
rigid mango
Further than that seems overboard
past marten
*lost
spice surge
And just stay with 420 benthic pieces and you remove 1/3 of the effort required
ripe nimbus
Having to do any number of islands is overboard
fringe epoch
which are the bethnic pieces we want?
past marten
True, the 5 ilvl don't make a huge difference
hollow junco
especially considering there is ongoing value to your neck that doesn't have any chance of being replaced by a lucky TF
and there a lot of sources for those chances
a lot
spice surge
But the ap farm is also 22% easier every week
past marten
There is like almost 0 chance to replace the Benthic item with a "lucky tf"
Especially the boots and the wrists
Belt yes
ripe nimbus
455 socketed uunat boots hello
cobalt gyro
i'm almost 55 and i didn't do anything lol
cobalt gyro
i'll only have to hard-farm on my monk
hollow junco
granted i did sims two days ago, things could have changed so let me know if you know something i don't, but i was simming 435 with socket bracers as clearly better than 425 benthic
cobalt gyro
because thats what i'm raiding on and it's only 49 heart
spice surge
@past marten There is no uunat cap, its just a gamewide cap
so yes, you will be able to tf uunat boots
spice surge
Not really
astral tangle
^
spice surge
Crit boots are still better than 425 socket ones with 100% uptime
hollow junco
!!
cobalt gyro
tbh they should';ve made the benthic stuff work everywhere
spice surge
You're probably gonna want to run uunat anyway for lurkers soooooo 😄
tiny arrow
juicy Lurker TF
cobalt gyro
or the inkpod
past marten
Even 445 boots + socket are 635 dps worse than benthic 425 boots with socket
past marten
I wanna see that health bar as soon as some people have the item
cobalt gyro
CHONK
past marten
Imagine a boss that gets extra mechanics at 25%
past marten
Going to completely screw timings when that things pops haha
past marten
@hollow junco You better start farming that Benthic stuff now
spice surge
Visions looks decent
cobalt gyro
its a lot of haste
latent tendon
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
spice surge
But even then. Its only for 10s
cobalt gyro
ya but 1minute cd
past marten
Every raid leader simming Benthic: "2 Benthic pieces at Mythic start or bench"
spice surge
Well
Its basicly galecallers
galecallers at 445 actually gives 1644 haste, which is slightly more than that trinket would give at 1% hp
past marten
Yeah, but it doesn't force you into pre-planning movement patterns
slender smelt
which minor (lvl 55 neck)are you guys using?
spice surge
Yes, but my point was that if its worse than galecallers its not really gonna be incredibly strong compared to lurkers
cobalt gyro
realistically it's only gonna be ok because access to a 🅱ig lurkers is gonna be much harder to get than a base
past marten
Does Simcraft already include the new trinkets?
spice surge
Yes
past marten
Brb, simming :^)
spice surge
I have 425 lurker
But that vision is always the full hp one so not entirely accurate (atleast i assume thats how it is, otherwise its unlucky)
hollow junco
@past marten what the ass, that doesn't match what I had at all. I don't have the sim to link you to back it up though, so it's on me to sim again and confirm
past marten
Please do so, @hollow junco
hollow junco
and yours is 385 - unsocketed, vanilla un upgraded
past marten
Bear in mind that I simmed with a "BiS" 445 item collection
hollow junco
my sim was with a 425 socketed ori's
hollow junco
trusting but verifying
solid nova
feet=",id=170141,ilevel=425,gems=60haste"
past marten
I think he means verifying as in "I am going to sim my own character to see if the Benthic stuff is actually as OP as you make it look" 😄
@spice surge It looks like only the Azshara trinket beats out the 445 Harlan's/Dice
Quite disappointing if you ask me
spice surge
Ofc it does, why would you sim a full bis set without a on-use trinket? :p
past marten
😛
mossy ferry
Does raidbots account for the zone requirement for the boots?
spice surge
For now they just assume you are in nazjatar
past marten
^
spice surge
I'd assume that it will be toggleable in the options later on
mossy ferry
Cool, wanted to make sure I didn't have to do anything to enable that.
naive sentinel
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
astral tangle
How accurate is wowanalyzer?
vestal wren
i dont understand the question
deft nymph
it's good at giving you things to consider
vestal wren
its a visual helper tool to analyze your logs, its based on those so its accurate
deft nymph
don't take it as gospel necessarily
astral tangle
I've used it before, it's said I've done great but my parse was abysmal
solid nova
afaik it wasnt being maintained, has that changed?
I usually dont recommend it, other than quick overview on that basis
Its good for looking at basic stuff, but more indepth issues, log analysis is better imo
vestal wren
its more of a supplement to wcl
silver zenith
Would you guys recommend keep buying boots untill u get the Akana's with a socket, since its (as it looks right now, going to be big), before upgrading it?
lone junco
Look at that big ass deeps from the punch card.
solid nova
Beyond the guide/pins and other resources, you can always drop your logs in here
slender smelt
what minor essence are we using? for level 55 necks
silver zenith
ic ic - Been using 80 mana pearls, no socket yet
deft nymph
isn't it lucid
vestal wren
lucid minor probably
solid nova
I have 2 left
slender smelt
so both major and minor lucids?
spice surge
You cant do that no
lone junco
Imagine channeling for 2.5s for only 40k dmg. when you could have Mut/Env and not died to a mechanic.
vestal wren
you can buy boot tokens on your alt and send it to main
spice surge
@slender smelt You should sim yourself
vestal wren
you can use a stronger major if you have lucid minor on 2nd slot
spice surge
It depends on what ranks you have on your essences
arctic walrus
lvl 1 lucid beat out lvl 2 flame and blood for me
deft nymph
fyi when you use a major you also get its minor
silver zenith
@solid nova Thanks 
Used 125 pearls in total 
vestal wren
yes, you get minor + major if you use it in major slot
modest oyster
may be a really stupid question but why is vision minor so bad
deft nymph
desyncs vanish
past marten
Because you want Vendetta on a 2min cooldown
arctic walrus
I rolled 20 boots last night and didn't get a socket, let alone the crit ones
deft nymph
and vendettaws
modest oyster
yeah that's what i thought
past marten
To sync with Vanish
modest oyster
just wanted verifying haha
astral tangle
@solid nova I'm a little embarrassed by then actually.. Haha
spice surge
Its not really desyncing with vanish that is the main issue
Its moreso on-use trinkets
solid nova
Oh
strange python
There is an essence called "Purification Protocol" that deals 50% more damage to Abberations (which are in the new raid). Wouldn't setting that on your minor essence be a BiS?
spice surge
Vanish is fairly mediocre
solid nova
@astral tangle I have no issue with you DMing me your logs and I can review them that way. I'll be leaving work soon so there will be a delay in me getting back to you
But I dont mind looking if you dont want to post
clever ivy
hey guys, how accurate is the "new" beta dungeon slice from raidbots to sim for m+? or just sim for multiple targets with simulationcraft? sorry if this question is answered anywhere, couldnt find anything yet
vestal wren
its better then the competiting fight styles
it has issues, that might get solved in the future
silver zenith
Since we're talking bout sims on essences, heres mine if u want to look 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cxGvXPb9Gh43Zn3c5QFDtq
clever ivy
@vestal wren ty
arctic walrus
Damn I really need those boots
hollow junco
@past marten you are right, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7mi81ACDwhWJGtCHprc8Zd
arctic walrus
Gotta get on my alts for free 4 pieces
hollow junco
benthic bracers even at 420, which would mean skipping the last 100 mana pearl turnin, are better than 445 socketed raid bracers.
that's wtf
granted that's not a full raid gear setup
it's not quite a fair sim for that reason but still
sullen pagoda
i got the bis boots on 1st try
hollow junco
i'm not sure if i'm excited or mad
lone junco
Im sending benthic gear from my alt to click on main. then if i get somethign good, use Main pearls to upgrade.
lone junco
6L PoE time.
ripe nimbus
I can see them nerfing benthic procs tbh
sullen pagoda
idk how that even passed the balancing but hey blizzard 🤷
hollow junco
apparently it's both
past marten
With the boots it's more about the effect than the socket
sullen pagoda
even without sockets effects are kinda nutty
past marten
As they outperform 445 boots with sockets by far
strange python
benthic gear is insane even without sockets
spice surge
Well yes, but the benthic effects are a cool little effect
ripe nimbus
That are to powerful smh
sullen pagoda
it should be catchup gear not potential bis unless you titanforge on regular gear 🤷
outer venture
Hey guys, quick question. I played only with subter so far and used 2x garrote after vanish. Now I sim higher with MA. Do I want to press something specific when skilled into Ma after vanish?
past marten
The difference between 445 boots with socket (haste + mastery) and the 425 benthic with socket (haste + mastery) is a whopping 600 dps
based on 445 gear, that is
spice surge
Idk, im fine with there being deterministic rewards to work towards that isnt tied to raiding
sullen pagoda
600 dps over 445 or?
spice surge
That arent useless
sullen pagoda
@past marten
strange python
what do u mean by deterministic here
cobalt gyro
i dont think that puncard is simming correctly
spice surge
Just farm pearls and upgrade
strange python
well yeh but if u want sockets aswell thats crazzy rng
sullen pagoda
i need some tips how to farm that shit
spice surge
Not really since its so cheap to buy them
crisp steppe
U can get pearls on alts too. For buying tokens
strange python
dude , i've farmed nazjatar on 6 characters for 5 days straight . I haven't even got a socketed belt.
sullen pagoda
thats just bad luck
tame cobalt
first buy socketed boots lul
crisp steppe
Unlucky
strange python
well you know i was thinking "ill go for the 50/50 first that should be fine"
crisp steppe
Yeah boots r better
sullen pagoda
5 cost really isnt much and u can send them over from alts its really no issue getting bis effect with socket
strange python
yeh no issue if you're lucky
spice surge
And i doubt you've spent over 1000 pearls and havent seen a single socket
mighty elm
Why u tryna get belt :/
scarlet sequoia
this thing any good?
strange python
I've spent around 450 as of now
lone junco
I saw a 440 bananna trinket in the herodamage list.
can stuff actually proc that high?
scarlet sequoia
nvm it is incredibly garbage, you hate to see it
sullen pagoda
speaking of which they should add filter for herodamage and shit about those wq trinkets
lists are so cluttered with trinkets you will likely never see on those ilvls
cobalt gyro
yeah there's no way cyclotronic is simming right
past marten
Raidbots is actually trying to tell me that the Azshara trinket + Galecaller's is BiS
😮
And the Inkpod trinket seems to be broken right now
tropic ocean
Also the cannon trinket from tol dagor is huge
cobalt pelican
did they ever fix it just spawning and doing nothing
arctic walrus
If you break the boss' legs first so the tanks can't move him out
opaque tree
I’ve always been curious on the range that thing can reach.
arctic walrus
It depends on your ranks
ripe nimbus
Blood won't be used at all in a few weeks so u can rest easy it's only used now cause it was farm able to rank 3
Unless they buff it then I quit lol
cobalt pelican
on basic sims on my own character for week 1 it was either blood3/lucid2 or lucid2/flame2 coming out as the most viable options
and i'm not farming blood so
simple meteor
guys should I hold blood of the enemy for second vendetta or use it on cd ?
i see ty
vagrant tapir
Beguiling going to make sin meta again eh?
tropic ocean
lean coral
i miss sub in dungeons kinda
vagrant tapir
it was fun
simple meteor
x3 sin new meta?
vagrant tapir
like in a group?
solid nova
solemn meadow
simple meteor
cobalt pelican
5 rogues
simple meteor
3 rogues mistweaver war ez
tropic ocean
lol
waxen nacelle
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
latent tendon
@arctic walrus blood major and lucid minor ?
arctic walrus
Flipped
ripe nimbus
Sim ur self it depends on rank and ur gear
solemn meadow
dont have it
tropic ocean
its not that expensive might just wanna buy it
tropic ocean
cannonball is strong as well
solemn meadow
lemme try it out then
faint harness
Cyclotronic blast aint implemented yet right
I saw some google docs yday where it stated it wasnt at least
strange python
Raidbots is being wierd, says I should gem Crit, I gem crit, it tells me to gem Haste O.O
rigid mango
Like, is stat weights telling you or top gear?
strange python
Top gear
rigid mango
vapid scarab
That’s how stats work
Crit and haste are so close for you that it doesn’t realistically matter
The more of one you get, the more valuable the other becomes
strange python
Ahh right, ty glad I didn't go dump a load of gold regemmiong again
celest swan
i know it was in tc updates some tiem ago but whats the the mutltitarget rule for 3x Double Dose, we still use Mutilate at 3 Targets?
and onyl start FoK at 4?
dreamy plover
is it worth buying any of the benhic shit>
rigid mango
@celest swan Don't even think it's 4, more like 5+
mental obsidian
think it s worth crafting engi helmet next week?
rigid mango
Not sure though, but if people aren't foking on uunat it's not sure
celest swan
^we i dont fok rasthakan p1 aswell?
rigid mango
nope
woven summit
Do you guys raid with deeper strategem now?
royal lantern
no
woven summit
I'm watching Seliathan he's rocking deeper strategem
worldly seal
quick question
it says i want to wait to vanish until garrote is up
i got that part
but
it also says i want to combine vanish with garrote
i mean
vendetteas
am i doing some holding?
woven summit
with sub or MA?
woven summit
I don't see any reason why you should rupture in vanish with sub
or I got something wrong?
worldly seal
like
woven summit
I think you should just double garrote in vanish
spice surge
Yes you hold vendetta so it lines up with vanish
worldly seal
ah ok ty
woven summit
ah yeah didn't got that lol
woven summit
oh you said vendeta afterwards
worldly seal
trying*
woven summit
you corrected yourself lol
worldly seal
ya i dont explain things well
woven summit
didn't got that
worldly seal
its a known issue with me feelsbad
woven summit
nvm there you go
odd viper
Do I still garrote three targets, vanish and garrote three more during AoE in M+ if I have 3 echoing blades?
spice surge
If the mobs arent dead halfway through those garrotes yes
woven summit
and if you feel like they really need to die faster
true ledge
should i go vigor or mark of death for sin
civic palm
vigor
civic palm
Get more health, use your defensives better, don't stand in things, etc.
true ledge
would sub be an easier way to have more sustain or am i just still not understanding good
true ledge
that makes sense
since im not very good XD im trying to figure out which would be the best for pvp
cuz i sometimes i destroy people but ialsoi get melted a lot
worldly seal
no offence but pvp is a very diff game than pve
rigid mango
ofc
true ledge
yes i have found that out hahahah
carmine valve
LF Rupture/garrote WA that is on enemy nameplate, kinda like infested
true ledge
i get rekt sometimes, i feel i dont know other classes very well
worldly seal
if u dont know what ur opponent is gunna do
hwo can u beat them
if they know ur class
worldly seal
yup
blowing ur defensives is VERY bad
ther e are times when u get stunned
where u do not want to trinket
or use defensives
its very in depth
true ledge
i know my dps rotation but whne it comes to me gettig bursted i also just freak out and press everything
carmine valve
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
celest swan
can i pandemic a SS BUffed Garrote with my next vanish?
or do i need to wait till its fully run out
hollow stone
You can but you lose overall ticks so you shouldnt
Since van should give you g m or r g which already pands it to full
hollow stone
Yea
solemn meadow
which minor should I use?
celest swan
but normaly for lets say 2 or 3 targets
solemn meadow
with lucid in major
celest swan
i can pandemic it
hollow stone
Yea. Definitely
Just dont pand if youre gonna pand again on the vanish on the same mob, if that makes sense
solemn meadow
so for example one empowered garrote is about to run out on cabal you shouldnt vanish garrote garrote garrote but garrote garrote envenom?
oh wait or just pandemic the other one
celest swan
ye i understand^^
al this apply for 1-3 traits right? different nubmer doesnt change anyhtinc
white basalt
this popping out of stealth shit is bugging the hell out of me
hollow stone
Ill break it down with fake numbers that make it easy to digest: 5s on g, you van and g again, its now 20sec (15 new sec) you then fill a gcd (down to 19 sec - 4 old sec) then you g again (18s goes to 20s - 3 old sec). You gain 2 sec but lose 3 sec
hollow stone
I thought lacroix was asking too
celest swan
oh sry
solemn meadow
does that count for 2 targets?
celest swan
you Garroate T1, then Garrote T2, then Garrote T1 again
and wait for the T2 Gorrate to run off
then vanish
and Garrote it, then Garrote T1 and then Garrote t2 again
so u pandemic the Garrote from T1
hollow stone
Yea
celest swan
while not wasting it
hollow stone
Thatd do it
celest swan
yey i got it 😄
the second venddeta which i dleay for vanish, i use vanish first right and vendta right after?
hollow stone
Technically the better way to do it cause pand garr is like 24sec??? And vend is 20
Personally, idc, i vend when van has 1 sec left
I feel like its better
Even tho, numerically, its probably not
analog remnant
what about the gloves that proc frost dmg for benthic gear>?