there're better majors
#assassination
rigid mango
strange python
If u have life force Lvl3
rigid mango
like flame n blood
rigid mango
nope
tepid frost
what about for arenas what are we lookin at for essences?
woven summit
ok good to know
woven summit
well then, If i'm using flame or blood as major in raiding at, then guess I'm good with haste and not mastery
rigid mango
so how about going there?:)
woven summit
mastery sims better only with lucid as major
timber mauve
wut
woven summit
right
strange python
Its not bad
crisp shard
@lone junco haha thanks, ran wrong chest tho, wanted another NP instead of the rupture trait but reforge costs... The vanish garrotes is naaaaasty AF
strange python
It sims pretty much the same on lvl2 as blood and crucible
And cba doing pvp for now for higher lvl blood
woven summit
Where do you see sims with only major included and not minor?
woven summit
bloodmallet has both major and minor included and lucid seems very strong
lone junco
@crisp shard always love a good vanish g g g
woven summit
yeah they do, and zine i didn't take this into consideration
so good to point it out
rigid mango
which is why lucid looks so good as a major
woven summit
guess the reality is different when it comes to major only
strange python
Well
rigid mango
when the minor is the thing carrying it
woven summit
what's required for rank 3 life force?
rigid mango
Does if u care about progress
strange python
Hmm?
woven summit
I think i'll be using flame as major then, but time will tell
rigid mango
it's good
lone junco
for 6:30 fights probably.
strange python
3min cd
rigid mango
r3 it's really good
strange python
Doesnt line up with vendetta :(
rigid mango
pre then it's middle of the pack I think
woven summit
so for the first 2 weeks you'll be using, flame as major and lucid as minor?
or blood as major and lucid as minor
lone junco
Maybe the 10% haste helps you make it between vendets. or are you delaying the vanish vendetta to the Essence on a 4min fight, cause you arent getting a 3rd.
make sense.
strange python
Delaying vendetta for 1min sounds awful
lone junco
delaying anything doesnt matter if you dont lose a cast
spice surge
You only get 2 vendettas regardless
lone junco
it might feel awful though
rigid mango
feelycraft
woven summit
How much will the difference be between life-force and lucid?
lone junco
phase timings could work out that way. like the flight component of mechrobot in the last big raid.
w/e
holding the 3min to 4min isnt that horrible.
crisp shard
"There is not going ot be a 4min fight
In raid"
Maybe not
but 8 min
same thing occurs
spice surge
Regardless of how long the fight is, delaying your cooldowns for them to line up is a win everytime you dont lose a cast
lone junco
^
crisp shard
^^ this
crisp shard
Not always
crisp shard
For sure
lone junco
but the sweet release of the 3g
slim socket
do we know already which one of the benthic gear enchant is the best?
lone junco
and. non crit MA makes me super limp
strange python
lone junco
@slim socket I like the one with free fish.
woven summit
One question, why were we saying that major and minor sims combined don't matter that much when you get both combined as major anyway?
slim socket
I like one with murlocs its easier to communicate with pugs but its not the best i guess
jolly spoke
so what Beth gear should we aim for?
strange python
boots and belt socketed
woven summit
for raiding krisko?
lone junco
@spice surge because you now all things. Can the benthic gear get a socket and +leech?
or is it one/other.
strange python
yes
woven summit
oki
strange python
belt gives extra dmg for 2 bosses in EP and boots give u mastery on abberation kill
woven summit
So Krisko what major will you use for raiding?
strange python
idk but judging by the conversation in the last 1hour, probably blood major and lucid minor
vapid scarab
blood doesn't line up well with anything
jolly spoke
i guess once the raid hits it will be more precise what people aim for.
now its just up in the air
strange python
why doesn't it line up
woven summit
yeah that's true i'll stop giving it that much thought untill further notice
some say lucid
some say blood
vapid scarab
because rank 2 reduces the CD by 25%
woven summit
some even say flame
rigid mango
rigid mango
Blood r3 and flame r3 are farmable and good
vocal kelp
No
vapid scarab
it's from quests
rustic onyx
Would it be that big of a deal to basically ignore rank 2 blood ? I mean as just delay it to use it with vendetta.
lone junco
is this a DH beam as a /use
except while moving
rip all the deaths to that channeled trinket in Legion.
vapid scarab
I mean you have an essence that is now 2/3 as useful as every other essence @rustic onyx
it depends if r3 makes up for that or not
rustic onyx
I don't know when i sim with r3 that what sim does
and it sims better than flame rank 3 for me
most rank 2 are useless
dps wise
lucid for example
rustic onyx
that is true but it's very little gain
vapid scarab
yeah but that's one example
rustic onyx
still it has synergy with our kit compared to flame which doesn't scale with anything
lone junco
vapid scarab
idd
rustic onyx
ye that kinda what i meant but worded badly i guess
do you mind losing this super small gain
to have a better overall essence imo
vapid scarab
it just feels annoying to have a useless r2
lone junco
0.14%
rigid mango
yes
vapid scarab
even if the essence overall is good
woven summit
so you zine
faint harness
flame rank 2 major is big
rigid mango
Flame or Blood are quite close
woven summit
ok good to hear
woven summit
then i'm going haste, no need for mastery
rustic onyx
i'm def going for blood
vapid scarab
the thing is that's rn with preraid gear
rustic onyx
i don't see how more burst/prio dmg could be bad for progress
vapid scarab
with raid gear flame just doesn't scale
woven summit
so lucid major if flame or blood are not r3 yet?
rigid mango
Sims should tell you the diff
woven summit
yeah that's true i'll sim it when the time comes
it's just annoying for me that i'll need to switch to mastery to sim lucid properly
I know wish i didn't disenchant everything that wasn't haste/crit lol
woven summit
I was like mastery? DE that shit. Versatility? DE that shit
vapid scarab
mastery and vers are not bad stats
woven summit
I learned my lesson now 😂
rigid mango
Ye that's why I'm wondering
lone junco
why would you ever de high Ilvl gear
rigid mango
if he played some other spec idk
woven summit
Because I was only playing assassination
woven summit
And I thought crit/haste is all i needed
lone junco
balancing changes occur at all times.
lone junco
except haste in M+
civic palm
Except Agility
lone junco
;0
lone junco
i melted some crit plate on my pally cause its garbo in glimmer. turns out it is the only stat for pvp healing.
oy
NEVAR
anyway. same with azerite. I keep all the high ilvl stuff
1 of each anyway
rigid mango
I normally don't save vers gear unless it's obv better
Since I always just run ttk's in m+ which means I pref stacking mastery anyways
lone junco
I do, just for outlaw hopes.
stark oxide
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
vast forum
@rigid mango it would make no sense if minors were counted into majors on herodamage sims, as worldvein major sims lower than worldvein minor
quasi pewter
thats most likely some kind of error or just because of target error
major in herodamage is major + minor
just like ingame
carmine valve
Can someone explain my why some fights rogue have 2-3 SS and in some they have none?
Like Crucible first boss they have it, the next boss the high parsing rogue drop it totally
woven summit
This game is 90% character optimization
vocal kelp
Prolly bcus of being able to cleave on multiple bosses
woven summit
When I was a kid raiding in TBC I didn't give a fook 😄
civic palm
1st boss has cleave, 2nd boss has a lot of fucking running around to do so.
So you ST.
vocal kelp
^
woven summit
SS good for cleaving yeah
woven summit
I used SS in pure ST and frequently topped DPS, but I was in a heroic guild
and as Mizerok said
yeah you have better traits for pure ST
you use Master Assassin for pure ST
vapid scarab
just because you had a SS trait doesn't mean you can't still do good damage
carmine valve
I like SS for combo point mostly, pure ST will be vendetta and mutilate right? but I would have them anyways
woven summit
guess you use 3np, 3x DD and 3x of what else?
vapid scarab
other traits are just better
woven summit
true yeah
carmine valve
Are there any benchmark you set for Toxic blade? like doing 2 envenoms in toxic blade and 3 envenoms in toxic blade with vandetta energy buff?
woven summit
Treacherous Covenant is better than SS I see
vocal kelp
SS is one of our better ST traits if you go subterfuge, but using MA and optimal pieces is better for pure ST
vapid scarab
you should always get at least 2 env in TB, if you plan properly you should be able to get 3
but 2 is a minimum
carmine valve
can u get 3 ? in normal energy state?
carmine valve
are you guys still doing 4+ envenoms in toxic blade for you to cast 4-5 envenoms?
4+ combo point
vocal kelp
Yes
vapid scarab
you finish at 4, TB or not
unless you are going to need to refresh garrote or TB is coming up before you would cap energy, then there's no reason not to wait to finish since you aren't losing anything and you can make it a 5cp finisher
vocal kelp
Since mutilate can give you 4, you can envenom every 2nd GCD
glad compass
is blood of the enemy the play for rogue essense now?
vapid scarab
likely for assa
maybe not exactly rn but in the future i don't see how anything else can compare
since it's the only one that scales with gear
hollow stone
Nobody knows til they do the tuning pass after first week of mythic
Just keep grinding in the meantime
vapid scarab
like rn with pre raid gear BotE is already pgood, with raid gear it's just going to get better
hollow stone
Unless it gets nerfed or other get buffed
vapid scarab
ofc
cunning blaze
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
shy axle
did most of you with lucid switch to mastery gems etc?
gentle path
i did
vapid scarab
urban flame
ty 😃
lunar pelican
!help
grand plank
Does the raidbots sim put the essence into account? To sim different essences, etc.
crystal vessel
60% mastery is awesome.
woven summit
when simming for m+ you go hectic cleave?
strange python
where are all the premade custom groups for the 50k honor grind
i never see any in the pvp custom tab
it's fucked
solid nova
@grand plank Yes
woven summit
Is patchwerk 5 bosses good for keys simulation on raidbots?
opaque tree
I don’t see rank 3 focusing iris on the damage chart. It’s only showing rank 2 (red bar). Am I missing something?
Has it just not been tested yet?
marble hemlock
Rank2 and 3 (major) are functionally the same
The only difference being that you can cast it while moving
strange python
seli are you going for rank 3 blood?
crystal vessel
What are the BIS benthic pieces?
strange python
i believe belt for sure but dno what else
vapid scarab
If you want to grind all day for a very specific piece that needs to be socketed and will maybe be a 100 dps increase for 1 or 2 weeks then by all means
marble hemlock
No, I'm a firm believer of blood being incredibly overrated
spice surge
Na
vapid scarab
lucid somewhat but you use lucid for the minor anyway
marble hemlock
Wat
spice surge
Guardian scales too
vapid scarab
only with vers
spice surge
But yes, blood has way better scaling than the others
Na
Guardian is 10% haste while its up and the minor gives +5% damage
marble hemlock
Pretty much any essence scales, its just that blood scales a bit better than the others
But I dont see blood as strong for m+ as others, due to the fact that it barely grants additional Echo procs since we're already capping on 5 per fok for most pulls where AoE matters more than cleave
So all it does is boost the fok-damage portion a bit (which is like 20-25% of the overall on a big trash pull) and thats just not nearly as "insane" as people make blood out to be
marble hemlock
You might be running blood minor for ST, but doubt it'll beat Lifeforce or Lucid Major
scenic nacelle
What’s the word on the new inscription trinket?
rigid mango
vapid scarab
the thing is blood is already close to those 2
scenic nacelle
I’m on mobile 😦
vapid scarab
and we're gonna go up like 10k dps at least over the course of the raid
rigid mango
Can still see pins
scenic nacelle
What is this witchcraft lol
fresh abyss
are the pins not outdated?
marble hemlock
2% worse isnt "close" and thats just comparing majors. Since you get the minor in addition to it, even if majors are even, as long as the lucid minor is so much better than the blood one, you will still socket lucid major
scenic nacelle
Ah ok found it
fresh abyss
oh
vapid scarab
you don't think blood scales more than 2%?
marble hemlock
It does, and so does lucid (and to a degree life-force)
vapid scarab
you can have 2 minors fyi
fresh abyss
are there any cheap-ish craftables worth going for (currently have 0 profs)? or will it all be replaced in a few weeks?
vocal kelp
The 50k honorcap is gonna be so annoying without the increased bg thingy and i assume honor from arenas doesnt count
marble hemlock
@fresh abyss LW gives you boots+pants with a socket each at mythic base-ilvl, so those are definitely worth imo
naive ridge
what about engi?, the helm is good?
fresh abyss
@marble hemlock are those boots better than the benthic boots w/ socket?
and how much will it set me back to get the required LW and the boots+panst?
pants*
spice surge
LW is basicly free
But no, they're probably not better than a full upgraded socket bnethic boot
marble hemlock
Benthic is capped at 410 or 415 as far as I'm aware, the craftable ones at 440
fresh abyss
so i can make them at 440 rn?
marble hemlock
No
civic palm
415 ye
marble hemlock
You can make 410 now, and then you can upgrade further once the raid releases
marble hemlock
@vapid scarab What I meant is why pick a major essence when its combined major+minor only provide, say, 15% increase, when another major with its major+minor provide 20%. Doesnt matter if both majors by themselves are even at 10% increase, for the major slot you will still always look at the combined gains from major+minor
Well, atleast as long as basically all minors are fairly close in value
fresh abyss
@spice surge on the benthic boots are you referring to (crit dmg)?
spice surge
yes
marble hemlock
Is it confirmed that both factions can get it? Seem to recall the sheet only showing the alliance one having the crit-damage
marble hemlock
In any case, blood major might overtake the current favourites in bis gear, but that also means that theres no real reason to grind it out asap.
marble hemlock
And I think the initial question was about m+ anyway 😄
civic palm
yummy
fresh abyss
ahhh wait
civic palm
Gonna dump like 50 pearls into getting them today
fresh abyss
so the crit is only for the raid?
naive ridge
i have a question, should i buy any benthic gear with bis stats + socket then upgrade it?
fresh abyss
so benthic boots won't be better than LW boots for m+?
civic palm
and Naz
marble hemlock
no
fresh abyss
no as in @marble hemlock ?
marble hemlock
No as in, they wont better than crafted 440 boots with socket, no.
@rigid mango currently looking at lucid major, unbound force minor, visions or purification minor
marble hemlock
yeah
we desync vanish from vendetta in m+ a lot anyway, so its not that big of a deal
rigid mango
Yeah obv
marble hemlock
so having it more often might be a pretty significant gain, or even just allow us to get an additional vendetta in on bosses
rigid mango
You really think unbound is good?
marble hemlock
you can play around it pretty well
rigid mango
Does it count on each fok cast or each fok hit?
marble hemlock
the thing im concerned about with unbound is that it might not stack up often due to the high crit that we run
rigid mango
Yeah
Purification looks interesting but ig that depends on ppm more than anything
Looks interesting un UR/WM for sure
marble hemlock
noncrit bleeds/poison ticks can stack it, that what makes it interesting
rigid mango
Oh
Then that sounds way better
Does it have an internal cd on amount oftimes to proc it?
marble hemlock
havent gotten more than 1stack from fok yet though (but its only 4 dummies)
rigid mango
That's a bit worse though
strange python
when i last tried it sin felt slow, far as energy regen and etc, does that get better with gear or?
rigid mango
if it would count per fok hit it woulda been way better
Sin is slow
Not as slow with lucid now
lone junco
there it is. Socket +3rd
rigid mango
But it's a lot more about preplanning usage and burst windows properly
lone junco
haste leech socket here we go
marble hemlock
but yeah, unbound might just not be as consistent
so i'd have to test it in a key for a few times to get a good feeling
rigid mango
when blood minor gets crit, you think it'll be worthwhile to use as a minor?
marble hemlock
nah
with echo having 100% crit, it stacks up too fast so youre mostly gonna sit at the hast buff instead 😄
civic palm
damnit
rigid mango
ah fair
fresh abyss
civic palm
WTT indestructible for socket please ty
marble hemlock
like, youre literally sitting on the hastebuff almost exclusively in aoe, since 2-3 foks puts oyu at 40 stacks again
fresh abyss
did i get dem? @rigid mango ^
fresh abyss
so now i can just focus on upgrading those?
lone junco
@civic palm almost.
civic palm
Getting them to 420 is pricy.
rigid mango
hm yeah
marble hemlock
interestingly enough ive looked at ripple in space as a minor as well
civic palm
415 is easy though
marble hemlock
yeah, purification is a given
fresh abyss
which socket should i use on the boots? <@&226375141334974464>
fresh abyss
@rigid mango *
devout bone
How do you plan to weave in memory of lucid dreams? After vendetta energy burst and just prior to toxic blade? MA build
civic palm
_> yoiks
rigid mango
Zoinks
civic palm
lol
rigid mango
fresh abyss
haha oops
fresh abyss
ah okay
rigid mango
Most likely mastery
fresh abyss
cheers
rigid mango
or crit
marble hemlock
@devout bone Once you dip sub50 energy you use it, whenever that happens. Usually at the tail-end of your vendetta so it reaches into your 2nd TB as well
rigid mango
nearly 20 min sim atm 😃
marble hemlock
But yeah, ripple is kind of like a prepot between pulls
devout bone
TY seliathan
marble hemlock
If it were possible to track the distance you travelled, you could proc it whenever you get TB up
lone junco
the duration was hard to read, how long is that agi uptime?
and will side step stutterning going to count.
cause doing laps around the boss will be funny
marble hemlock
20sec with t2
lament notch
lol pinging shadowcraft devs
marble hemlock
i was wondering who even still has the rank 😄
lament notch
as a person in that @ group, it amuses me 😄
civic palm
lol
marble hemlock
yeah its kinda hilarious 😄
rigid mango
250 vers 
marble hemlock
doubt many people even knew that rank existed
lone junco
#shadowcraft
civic palm
I had forgotten about it entirely and thought the @ was a weird mistake.
lament notch
RIP
surreal torrent
shadowcraft answer to that question: 404 socket not found
marble hemlock
@rigid mango in any case, lots of testing still to be done
marble hemlock
but im fairly certain the 3ttk+deeper+lucid major setup will be a top-contender, really enjoying it so far
and seems very solid for ST as well
lone junco
collect all the essences incase one of them is a 0.14% gain
as we all know. that is the threshold for "worth it"
marble hemlock
mhye, 3ttk 2eb 1ss
rigid mango
Sounds nice
woven summit
bfa is hardcore high octane gaming
marble hemlock
idk, st seemed better than the vigor one for example
woven summit
i wanna do keys as well now but all my gear is socketed and enchanted with haste
woven summit
i can run 10s though to get some gear
marble hemlock
nah, the 3ttk+deeper st felt better than the vigor one 😄
which is kind of to be expected
woven summit
what was deeper?
rigid mango
deeper strat
marble hemlock
talent, deeper stratagem
rigid mango
aka you've now got 6 cp max
woven summit
ah right
rigid mango
meaning u finish at 5-6 instead of 4-5
and when foking for CP, I can imagine deeper just feeling nicer
Is the windup a bit worse now w/out vigor, or does lucid make up for it?
And are u using any other number of bleeds etc
fresh abyss
"3ttk 2eb 1ss" should i prioritise this even if it means an ilvl drop? or should i be simming for that
rigid mango
Simming dungeonslice for sin is very meh
fresh abyss
also anyone know the ideal traits for arena and same q re: worth ilvl drop
lone junco
he runs a very high crit to make that work.
rigid mango
You don't even need that high crit
lone junco
if you dont have the crit, youll starve going for cps
rigid mango
35% is good aim
After that you just pump mastery to make your TTK's pump big time
Seli's just very optimally geared
lone junco
my crit is fine, just not optimal.
rigid mango
I'm just running vanilla spyglass + plumage
cobalt gyro
That crit
marble hemlock
keep in mind that the build im running is also mostly focused on very high keys, so your mileage may vary
cobalt gyro
And 9% avoidance
rigid mango
Just incase that wasn't enough
marble hemlock
yeah, had 12%, but dropped 400 boots for 410 crafted ones now :<
lone junco
good thing we still pull like bitches 3-5 at a time. so my ss still does work.
marble hemlock
in any case, dont go overboard with the 3ttk+deeper build
playing that on aoe is stressful (and fun as fuck)
rigid mango
Why's it stressful
cobalt gyro
It sounds very fun
marble hemlock
because if you dont play your opener right, you starve 5sec into the pull 😄
cobalt gyro
LMAO
lone junco
get the slug energy
rigid mango
So like is it now
marble hemlock
need to swap autoattacks to apply dp quickly on all garrote targets
rupture the ones that already got it
and even then its sketchy
marble hemlock
tbf, a single minor lucid proc makes things a lot easier, and lucid is very neat
marble hemlock
but the opener is rough, esp on burst aoe. struggled a bit on some reaping waves, but thats not really a concern in a week anyway
rigid mango
idd
marble hemlock
the 3garrote opener without any dp application is the one that sucks
lone junco
can you carry in cps for rupture g g ?
idk if the rupture will give more juice than the 3rd g
marble hemlock
since youre basically gambling on which target you rupture, then fok, and hope that you get atleast one dp on a bleed-target 😄
yeah, i was thinking about going 2g opener actually
just to make the opener more consistent
might be worth adjusting if you see the first 2 garrotes didnt have a dp proc
to just rupture instead of 3rd garrote to not starve
lone junco
just thinking about rupturing the low hps to get a death in there.
marble hemlock
the 2garrote opener might be the play honestly, at least for consistency
rigid mango
#assassination Is going to be full for the coming months
marble hemlock
so you just garrote > fok > garrote dp target > low-cp rupture
lone junco
I hope the new +10 affix requires som mongo st and cleave sets.
rigid mango
I like the sound of not doing same thing every time
rigid mango
And introducing some nice reactive gameplay
lone junco
does Env value pump the PB? or is it fixed
rigid mango
Average 80k
lone junco
the 6th cp will help
marble hemlock
(monk got fixated a lot, tbf)
rigid mango
Sounds fucking great
woven summit
Hey Seliathan it's you actually
I follow you on Twitch lol
nice to see you are here
you beat an Outlaw rogue
in a key
lone junco
do you sub him?
rigid mango
He always beats outlaws
I sub to him, I am nice money giver man
cough twitch prime cough
marble hemlock
at the end of the day we will have to see how exactly we play around beguiling
rigid mango
yeh
marble hemlock
the great thing i feel with lucid, is that we have really strong 2-3target cleave due to being able to desync vendetta/lucid
marble hemlock
so if theres a lot of low-target cleave, it might be the build to keep up with outlaw. outlaw was already really damn strong in KR and imo way better than assa
but with lucid we actually have good openers on low-target pulls even without stacking SS, so thats neat
strange python
Are there any good PvP rogues? can't find their streams
lone junco
Only pvp rogue I know is Pikaboo
strange python
Does he still stream?
lone junco
timid wedge
Does anyone know why Bloodmallet is overvalueing Highborne Compendium of Sundering so much, it sims terrible on raidbots, yet is BiS on bloodmallet for every melee out there.
solid nova
Does it really though
thin osprey
Best pvp rogues that stream are Blindsaplol, pikaboo, whazz and pshero
timid wedge
It should outsim my current trinkets at least
according to bloodmallet
Geez the check the pins, what is this channel supposed to discuss then?
lone junco
Does the Force multiplier haste stack well with quick nav?
solid nova
You mean a pin thats made for a frequently asked question to make it easier for people to have an answer?
timid wedge
It's still curious to me that bloodmallet has a different APL than the actual sims no?
solid nova
Bloodmallet isnt wearing your gear
solid nova
Each to their own, its there to benefit the majority, that wont be everyone
plucky stream
Any benthic Gear worth upgrading?
plucky stream
Whats the effect on those?
spice surge
3% Crit damage and 2% damage to aberrations are the ones you want (with a socket like richard said)
plucky stream
or the effect im looking for
solid nova
Crit damage on boots and damage against aberrations on belt (2 bosses in palace are aberrations)
plucky stream
ok ty much
fathom wyvern
so... 3x vendetta trait, 2x dd and 1x twist the knife sims higher than replacing twist the knife for 1 ss trait (6 min ST fight)
is the sim wrong or is it supposed to be like that?
worldly seal
is it justr me or does assassin seem to struggle in aoe questing
ive only played for like 25 minutes ishj
lone junco
@fathom wyvern if you are going to use any SS trait, you need to enable Subterfuge as an option.
you can sim MA and Subterfuge at the same time on raidbots.
fathom wyvern
@lone junco im running that as normal, do i wanna swap it if i dont run ss?
lone junco
enable both.
hollow stone
Check the guide in the pins. It outlines openers depending on traits you run
Idk if its updated w essences tho
fathom wyvern
lucid dream is use on sub 50 energy ye?
dire spoke
strange python
is sin good/fun spec to play for m+/raid/pvp?
dire spoke
Q: Is X spec fun? Is Y fun?
Fun is subjective. Fun compared to what? Watching paint dry? Please stop asking this question. 🙃
#rules-and-guides
vestal wren
i think you should try to play it, and decide yourself how much fun it is
vocal kelp
^
vestal wren
if damage = fun you def. want to play it in raid
lone junco
@strange python I like it.
has good tools for st and cleave. It does suck for hot swaps on shitty adds.
vendetta is a pure ST cooldown. so you can burst at 2min intervals. its not like DH meta or Ret wings, where you can burn an add, then swap back to boss.
fathom wyvern
What traits are best for dungeons atm?
lone junco
if you vendetta debuff something that dies in 5 sec. you will be sad.
vocal kelp
Echoing, twist, shrouded
lone junco
@fathom wyvern Talents, Azerite, Or essence?
fathom wyvern
@lone junco azerite
lone junco
^^
vocal kelp
2/2/2 is Good generally
fathom wyvern
ofc it depends on grp setup
lone junco
EB is nice fok cleave.
SS is nice st opener.
TTK is a good leftover that allows you to Bang out big env while cleaving heavy
fathom wyvern
so 2 of each?
lone junco
I like the idea of Scent, but it doesnt scale long enough to be that great
strange python
@lone junco I was playing Havoc DH, but tbh i keep getting burnt out with it, dunno why.
vocal kelp
2 of each is Good in almost all dungs
fathom wyvern
so NP is and DD combo is full on ST boss killer build?
vocal kelp
I like 1/2/3 more bcus of chain pulling
lone junco
@strange python you will find. that rogue is very sturdy. Cloak. evasion, vanish etc.
I die last typically.
Outlaw vs sin is different, outlaw requires a LOT of contact time.
assassin can dot and run and do mechanics, come back, and never skip a beat.
but they are both good.
I just dont like hyper active APM
and RIP 6b back to back to back
strange python
i dunno how to describe it, but DH feels fun, but almost too active, burns you out, if that makes sense.
lone junco
1 3 1 3 1 3 111 3 1 3 1 3 5
anyway
I always like the smoothness of assassin.
feels like a conductor of a symphony of dots and buffs. nothing is whackamole style (like ret)
fathom wyvern
assa is more slow phased than outlaw tho
lone junco
sure. and thats a good thing.
strange python
omg i hate rets rightous verdict talent lol
vocal kelp
More thought is going into assa than outlaw
lone junco
approaching vendetta vanish tb env rounds. ❤
vocal kelp
Dots, buffs, windows where assa do dmg
vocal kelp
Outlaw is more press rtb till good buff, then just do finishers
lone junco
and your liekk. dot dot env. dead.
vocal kelp
Use the mob to get 170 energy ez clap
fathom wyvern
at how many targets do you fok over mutilate to generate cp?
vocal kelp
Depends on traits
strange python
what is fok again?
halcyon falcon
what trait setup are you guys using to do these dailys/grind?
lone junco
fan of knives.
quasi pewter
yikes banned word
lone junco
the aoe
lone junco
nbd
vocal kelp
3x echo, 2x ttk, 1x SS
lone junco
I am the noob whisperer
quasi pewter
crit pot is actually so dumb, on uunat it stacked to 10 every time, on jaina it stacks to 5 every time
lone junco
Prot pally makes the grind easy
quasi pewter
🤔 nice pot thanks blizz
lone junco
@quasi pewter did it go over 5%?
quasi pewter
nope
fathom wyvern
on jadefire, do you use vendetta on pull or with the buff?
lone junco
junk
strange python
i bene playing since mid bc actually, just never really tried rogue in the past
been*
quasi pewter
use cds with buff @fathom wyvern
fathom wyvern
even if lust is used on pull? @quasi pewter
lone junco
@strange python thinking about boosting? or actually have a 120 rogue
strange python
oh i got a 120 human rogue
quasi pewter
yea
strange python
am i doing sin aoe right? Fok to get combo points and tab target rupturing?
occasional envenom for poison bomb proc too
lone junco
m+?
strange python
in m+ yeah
strange python
1 rupture??
lone junco
the g g g open is pretty fast, but smooth once you get it down.
with vigor, in cleave you can tab out a few bleeds, but dont need many more than 4-5.
strange python
eb is pretty juice with blood essence
lone junco
once you cap E, you should be ENV.
I make sure to garrote the elites, and rupture the littles. it goes pretty quick.
lone junco
yeah. youll cap fairly quickly
@strange python btw, after the opener, we dont use any garrotes that arent subterfuge. waste of a gcd.
use TB freely on your prio target in the pack. thats where the TTK comes in. gives you a pretty nice hammer
fathom wyvern
any stat cap you need as sin`?
rigid mango
Nope
cobalt gyro
Ya. The minimum amount is when your sim tells you to stop
rigid mango
^
strange python
but always keep garrote up ST right? along with rupture of course
fathom wyvern
ye
strange python
@lone junco
fathom wyvern
but garrote over rapture
strange python
how does one keep rapture up? 😛
crystal barn
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
strange python
sry i couldnt resist lol
lone junco
in a single target condition keep up garrote and rupture and use mut for cps.
might help to read the icy veins guide, then read the ravenholdt version for specific points.
the one we have was never meant to be an intro guide
fathom wyvern
on first vanish coming up mid fight you wanna keep vendetta for it right?
rigid mango
You either vanish with vendetta when u have MA
Or align them after that
Little bit aids with sub
cobalt gyro
Maintain dots. Cast mutilate to prevent capping energy. Spend combo points on envenom when at 4 or 5 and rupture doesn't need refreshing.
There's sin rogue 101
dry thicket
do we use hidden blades talent in m+?
crystal barn
so blood mallet says a rank 1 purification protocol is a VERY good choice for single target - only being outdone by rank 3 essences - the pins here link to wowhead which rates purification protocol as bottom tier - what gives?
woven summit
How to know if our character is balanced?
What should the first and second stat ratio be?
Like how to know when to stop building first stat focus on secondary etc
crystal vessel
When your stat weights are all pretty close to each other. Like 3.5/3.5/3.5/3.47/3.42
Something like that.
crisp steppe
Simming it @woven summit
Theres guides on youtube if you havenr done so before. Top gear sim is pretty good
lone junco
@dry thicket not normally. Most use PB.
strange python
what talent build is good for any situation? whether it be pve or pvp?
woven summit
Thanks guys I'll try to make them pretty close now
lone junco
What@?
When your stat weights are all pretty close to each other. Like 3.5/3.5/3.5/3.47/3.42
negavtive.
lone junco
this isnt a matching game.
crystal vessel
Only thing that changes is sub/ma. I believe.
lone junco
the goal is max dps. not weight matching.
crystal vessel
His question was “how do you know your stats are balanced.”
crisp steppe
Is that the intent of his question?
lone junco
then dont answer a question that has a wrong answer
fathom wyvern
for EB build do you run HB talent or pb/ct?
crisp steppe
The most literal take on it 👌
lone junco
using raidbots for gear and stat weights show the dps gain from additional stats. there is no goal to make them match.
strange python
@lone junco what is a good talent build ? kinda lookin for a jack of all trades sorta deal
woven summit
You cant be a jack of all trades. If you go in a boxing match as an MMA guy you'll get knocked out
crisp steppe
Just play whatever default build you find if you dont care about minmax i think
It dorwnt matter to you anyway
cobalt gyro
If you want the most generic does ok in all situations talenta
Run subt and pb, everything else is is pretty much irrelevant here
strange python
i do m+ for weekly chest, dont like to grind them out, so lookin for something raid/pvp
lone junco
i raid with 1ss 3dd 1np subterfuge Tb.
strange python
mainly
visual quartz
again, raid and M+ are 2 totally different
lone junco
others run no SS 3DD 1-3 vend. MA TB.
strange python
ik that, im jjust stating where my focus is more shifted towards
lone junco
check out warcraft logs for top sin rogues. on gronk and youll see some builds.
with and without ss
visual quartz
I mean run raid setup with SS+subt, youll suck in M+ but the ss will help a little on trash
strange python
atm im 2 3 1 2 2 2 1
visual quartz
nvm we talking different things
visual quartz
he said he wanted to raid more and M+ once a week but wanted something for everything...said use the raid SS setup is subpar to MA raid but can work in M+ if he didnt want to change anything
but the glory of Asn is needing 12 azerite pieces or more so not sure
strange python
oh sry for the confusion, im not opposed to changing a talent or 2 just not EVERYTHING lol
cobalt gyro
You can do fine with shrouded and subterfuge in pretty much everything
lone junco
M+ is a combination of SS/TTK/EB
Raid is a combination of SS (subterfuge) and or (MA) DD/Vend/BBI
depends on what you have access to.
M+ is crit, raid is haste.
good luck.
prisma oyster
8WA
lone junco
there are other traits that are ok. but these tend ot be best.
prisma oyster
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
mystic timber
Our excute still a bad talent?
lone junco
Omr and seli showing up on the board.
@mystic timber yes
@nimble tartan big boi unnat
prisma oyster
how do i get the Afenar WA UI to show cooldowns and timers on the skill icons (garotte, rupture, TB etc)?
it's not doing that like the preview for me
echo jay
Do you have omni cc?
prisma oyster
well it's show the cooldown by colouring the icon, but no digit countdown like in the preview on the top of the page here: https://wago.io/Afenar_Rogue
ah! there's a prereq?
that might be it
let me check
echo jay
Yeah scroll down. You need details, omnicc, and add on skin
echo jay
No problem
wild stone
3DD 3 Vendetta master assassin is about 1k dps over 3Ss 3 vendetta subterfuge for me. Parchwerk
prisma oyster
hmm, it works now, but the font is different from the preview
@echo jay
any idea?
gentle path
3dd1Np1BB1TTK is good ST
echo jay
@prisma oyster the font comes from Elvui Addon Skin. Even if you don’t use elvui you can download the Addon Skin Addon for if
gentle path
anything over 30k is def "ok" lol
mental obsidian
guys if I kill a tree in nazj and he dosent drop the follower xp item, can i kill him again same day and maybe he will drop it?
gentle path
woven summit
wow that's pretty nice
How much mastery and haste do you have?
and how do you know how much to balance between haste and mastery?
scenic nacelle
Sim your stat weights
woven summit
i did that
gentle path
what shiz said is all i do
woven summit
but i don't know how far to go with each stat
it tells me my stat weight
but i don't know what to change
gentle path
just standing around no buffs im at 23% crit 17% haste 43% mastery 6% verst
woven summit
man i need to stop overthinking this shit, i'm just a pleb that aims for curve and does 10s
why do i care so much about min/maxing lmao
violet yew
It's fun
gentle path
yeah i dont overthink it, my guild isnt going to kill or not kill a boss because of my 200 dps loss/increase
woven summit
yeah true
crystal vessel
Anyone other than me not have BIS azerite because RNJesus gambling has shit on them every week?
rigid mango
I mean I've got it after a while
Just prep for s3 when you need to rng 2 pieces for raid again and like 4-5 for m+ 😃
crystal vessel
Every other week buy a random. Never got the shoulders or ceph chest.
So I just play 2 SS/ 2 NP /2 DD 1 OP
rigid mango
Well, I've got everything but cepha
but idm since I have spymasters and the dps diff is so small
crystal vessel
I’m just going to save up for specifics this raid. RNJesus Hates me.
I’m also sitting at 19/20/58/2. Lol
rigid mango
hm?
crystal vessel
Stats lol
crystal vessel
You have how many OP though?
rigid mango
for?
silent parcel
Which trait is OP?
crystal vessel
That’s what’s crazy, the rogues you look at on watceaftlogs all have different crit/haste/mastery/vers levels
OP is overwhelming power
rigid mango
New traits?
silent parcel
Ooh right, ty
rigid mango
We're rocking the same old same old
narrow quail
Nah
rigid mango
Yeah.
narrow quail
That s not what i mean
rigid mango
So please, tell me what you mean.
crystal vessel
Essence?
rigid mango
Lucid
narrow quail
Oh, oke, ty!
strange python
Has anyone tested the new wep enchant?
silent parcel
Which 2 "main" azerite traits should I look for?
rigid mango
For what
languid ore
I thought it was forcex2
rigid mango
It doesn't stack
languid ore
Oh
rigid mango
Yes, very