eh. engi helm has good traits on it, not a terrible choice since it opens up allowing other raid members to roll on it
#assassination
cobalt gyro
vapid scarab
you'll need a few weeks to get mats to craft the engi helm anyway
fiery sage
and its the head frm boss before last u want cuz its NP DD and OP on it 😛
or u want to try the loyal to the end trait 😛
vapid scarab
so again
not the engi helm either
engi helm is about getting access to mythic level azerite early
first boss also drops a leather helm so the advantage is kind of pointless
vapid scarab
and the first boss has TTK and DD
inner citrus
is the essence one in bloodmallet correct in its rankings?
vapid scarab
engi is not useless, but JC and LW are just better if you want professions for early gear
fiery sage
u still gotta wait for it to drop and a azeriote peiece is big 😃
vapid scarab
just like you have to wait for legs, boots, and a ring to drop because you didn't take LW/JC?
fiery sage
i got jc and mats for the new ring to so i dont know if i gotta wait 😛
well not long 😛
vapid scarab
sounds like you have everything all figured out then and asking the question in the first place served absolutely no purpose for you
strange python
Hiy Theeeeeeeeer, bis potion name pls thanks ty
onyx rock
tough whale
meager nebula
for the potions you could just do a couple of sims, each with a different pot and see which ones come out on top
tough whale
new potion is adding about 1.5k on sims atm (especially for people abusing new mastery sims)
psure something is scuffed with it all
cobalt gyro
"new mastery"?
tough whale
raidbots is hyper overvaluating stacking matery
right now
and its results are really volatile
tough whale
Yeah like top gear sims are consistiently higher than my quick sims, with the same settings and gear in play
and they also directly oppose stat weight sims as well so its all over the place
coarse swan
Do you always toxic blade off cd? Do you use it if you have 5 combo points?
tame cobalt
pretty sure you dont waste combo points
tough whale
dont waste CP and try to align with vendetta vanish
coarse swan
ok
vapid scarab
if using it on CD means you use it at 5cp you can do that
coarse swan
^^I should have worded the question better. ty
bleak spoke
Also more often than not you work vendetta and vanish around Tb rather than the other way around because you’re more likely to lose a Tb cast than a vendetta cast
cobalt gyro
TB on cooldown is more important than delaying it to not waste a CP
bleak spoke
You have usually up to ~12-14 seconds of leeway in a fight before you lose a Tb cast that being said
cobalt gyro
the exception is obviously if you know there's gonna be a mechanic that forces you to disconnect
bleak spoke
But it’s okay to cap energy for a second or two
It’s also okay to be early on refreshing garrote or rupture by a second or two
Rather than wasting energy or cp in your window
woven summit
!essrank
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Major Essence ranking:
ST: Lucid > Iris > crucible > condensed > blood'
AoE: Iris > purification >= blood > condensed >lucidn
Note: This might change slightly with gear and essence rank, do a sim.
ionic matrix
How does lucid impact haste vs mastery values. I'm at 1700 haste with 800 mastery and simc is already valuing mastery higher than haste just slightly.
tough whale
Natural generation of resources means youre on average casting more than pooling, which would bring mastery's contribution higher
rustic onyx
for my part puting lucind made haste go behind mastery and crit while before it was first .. but i guess siming yourself with your own gear will give best result
errant viper
tough whale
stat weights currently DO NOT use essences
so be careful
You can double check in the full HTML report
if your sim is even using the essence
tough whale
my sin sim didn't account for lucid, so there was no generation of energy and no on use used over the duration
Check your html and see
rustic onyx
for me
tough whale
im curious
rustic onyx
i did them yesterday will check if i can find them in my history
what i mean is top gear made me gem/enchant full mastery
ionic matrix
My gut instinct is that mastery is better than or on par with haste if you run lucid and have high haste like myself.
My other instinct is that the reasom why raidbots is overvaluing mastery may have to do with how its using lucid in its logic. If its using it while vendetta is creating energy then its wasting massive amounts of energy, rendering haste useless in the sim. Could be wrong about that though.
rustic onyx
and stat weight put mastery to my besrt stats
tough whale
Iirc the logic for lucid use in sims is under 50 energy
Which is ideal for its testing in sims
and not overcapping
ionic matrix
Think it needs to be lower, closer to 20 energy is ideal in my gear
tough whale
this does raise masterys value
ionic matrix
If i used lucid with my gear at 50, id waste literally 100 energy.
rustic onyx
lucid will make you overcap even used at 50 with proc
it's about minimizing the energy you overcap i guess
ionic matrix
Drop the haste for mastery is the solution. No inherent problem
tough whale
regardless of the APL the sim does it correctly at the right time in your sim
rustic onyx
oh yeah it is but i think everyone pretty much said mastery sim the highest now
tough whale
That's usually when you become energy starved in a vendetta window
rustic onyx
since simming with lucid and adjusting top gear i have like halved my haste by 2 and doubled my mastery by 2
ionic matrix
Im about to do the same.
rustic onyx
well i'm just following top gear for my part
not sure if it's yet fully accurate ( probably not )
tough whale
Yeah my weights went from prepatch haste crit to haste barely above mast
rustic onyx
but it give you a good idea, and as we were saying mastery getting value and haste loosing some make perfect sense i think
tough whale
That's the reason why your sims will count mastery higher
you're casting more because you overall will have a good chunk more energy
meaning mastery is being used more
ionic matrix
Simc even had mastery ahead and it doesnt take lucid into account at all
tough whale
In hindsight to my comment about essences
it may be an error on one of my apls
thats why i asked yof to send me his html report, so it seems its working ok on other's end
rustic onyx
ye i was quite surprised by what you were saying because as i said i had very similar result between stats weight and top gear for my part ( dps wise, stats wise, etc )
but i mostly use top gear anyway and just look time to time at stats weight to see where it goes
tough whale
Something on my end isnt catching essences when i import on half of my sims, that threw me off pretty heavily
when my top gear and quick sim were 4k apart i knew something was up
rustic onyx
something to note is that when i run this sim i added manually the essence
cause i didn't have it yet
maybe something to do with that ?
tough whale
Can you try running one now for me? if youre on
ionic matrix
I noticed that top gear pulled my essence but quick sim did not.
winter moss
the chests from the raid are not quite good, are they? 
ionic matrix
Last time I ran one was about hour ago
rustic onyx
are you asking me or stealth @tough whale ?
tough whale
either of you
if you can take a quick sim of you with lucid without manually putting it in
to see if its importing it or not
ionic matrix
I'm not at my computer, on Mobile. Yof will have to test
rustic onyx
i can do it in 30min to 1 hour max
winter moss
what sim you want @tough whale
tough whale
quick sim with you using lucid in neck, dont edit anything
just simc it, quick sim it and send me
winter moss
ah rip
rotund pier
ill send one, one sec
I've been using top gear mainly, but have also seen a 3ish k drop from Top Gear vs Advanced or Stat Weights
tough whale
like rn i have a sim i just did thats 4k under my top gear, and has haste at 3.84
so i know its not using lucid
even checked in html
Good to know, use top gear for now to sim your essenes
rotund pier
yea im 28190 with quick and 31067 top gear
rustic onyx
or enter them manually i guess
tough whale
Yeah ill shoot him a message
rotund pier
it's funny, lucid is favoring diff az traits too
like primary and secondary
so dropping a second vendetta az trait for example in favor of something else
dropping the secondary dmg proc(i think gutripper), in favor of the one that procs haste or crit or mast
haughty lily
the command for the neck thingy?
solemn meadow
hey hows it going
haughty lily
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
haughty lily
got it HAHA
rotund pier
blood is ok, but fuck pvping for rank 2 and 3 imo
solemn meadow
I like it everywhere
tough whale
Lucid is fantastic on ST but i REALLY dislike it on any constant cleave
solemn meadow
not having rng in opener is bless 
ionic matrix
Lucid is wasted on cleave. It's actually awful
rotund pier
so lucid had me drop a second vendetta az trait for treacherous cov, and had me change a secondary az trait(gutripper) to elemental whirl
solemn meadow
wait are sims out yet?
ionic matrix
Elemental whirl is actually really good
rotund pier
for sure
ionic matrix
You can proc more than 1 at a time
rotund pier
ya especially when new enchants and gems are pricey af
tough whale
most people are preforming very well with 2/3 nothing personal still, so dont pull the trigger on big trait changes yet
rotund pier
best to wait a min haha
tough whale
especially since lucid makes mastery stronger which also makes np stronger
rotund pier
i use 3 mutilate and 2 vends, works well so far
tough whale
im 3 dd 3 np
ionic matrix
Nothing personal is obvious bis once the vendetta cd essence is out.
rustic onyx
i don't think the vendetta essence is any good
tough whale
it depends on if they changed how it works with traits or not
ionic matrix
Surely. It can't be bad
rustic onyx
It desync everything
tough whale
so?
rustic onyx
Your vanish with vendetta
tough whale
more vendettas = always good
rustic onyx
well the minor is a dps loss afaik
tough whale
simply not true
rustic onyx
that what is on website
like bloodmallet and thing
i don't take them too seriously but they nerfed quite anythin that was good about it
the full duration np
full duration energy regen
ionic matrix
Blood mallet isn't even close to reliable atm. I wouldn't trust anything on it
tough whale
yeah give it some time to balance sims out and get more acurate and stable results
rustic onyx
yeah of course hence why i say i don't take too seriously
but i don't see how it's gonna be so good
tough whale
It really all depends on how vision interacts with NP, so we dont truly know
rustic onyx
unless they changed thing from ptr right before patch (like monday) it was a 6 second vendetta proc with a 6 second np proc
you had to delay vendetta aswell if you had a proc or you would overwrite but not the other way around
rustic onyx
oh we talking only about minor
tough whale
you mentioned the minor being a dps loss? i thought thats what you mentioned
rustic onyx
ye but howvaluable is reduced cd when you gonna hold this cd for your vanish
tough whale
Perfection as a whole is incredibly strong
tough whale
you arent going to hold vendetta for vanish every time if its 35% reduced
that's incredibly stupid
solemn meadow
well you hold Blood for vendetta too
rustic onyx
then you never vanish and vendetta together
solemn meadow
even tho its 1,5min on rank 2
rustic onyx
xcept at pull
tough whale
yea but if youre running an essence that is directly reducing the CD on a 2minute
and you can get an extra 2minute in if you dont hold it
you will lose damage
rustic onyx
yes ofc
tough whale
if you hold it
ionic matrix
You'll probably get a vanish with Vendetta at 1 3 5
tough whale
so
rustic onyx
but that very dependant of kill timer
rough agate
So if vlood r2 im saving it always?
tough whale
so lets avoid blanket statements of "i dont see how this could be good" when there are situations where it definitely holds value
rough agate
blood*
strange python
Let’s avoid blanket statements of “it’s incredibly strong” where there are situations it could possibly suck
rough agate
kk
rustic onyx
sure i maybe didn't phrase it too well. i just think it's overhyped from the early iteration just like blood, but that my opinion only and its only feelycraft so
solemn meadow
the only ones I really like is the blood and the focusing iris or smth
the laser beam
tough whale
It's odd that it desyncs from vanish, but vanish isnt what makes a full vendetta strong, you know?
it synergizes the burst VERY well
rustic onyx
i know
but assa do incredible burst by putting big cd together aka vendetta vanish and tb
tough whale
So there are far more situations where it will be useful as a major than not useful
solemn meadow
you could basically vanish when you get a random procc too
tough whale
^
Vanish is 4 seconds, you more than reliably could just burn it when you get a proc and have some energy
rustic onyx
true but this could lead to some cd lost on vanish
from my testing on ptr the proc was very unreliable
like can proc 2 time in 1 minute
or not at all in 2 min
ionic matrix
Maybe there's a scenario where you would go back to garrote stealth talent and still use vendetta minor.
tough whale
you're running your argument into a full circle though
ionic matrix
Like on a 2 boss fight
rustic onyx
well anyway we're not going anywhere with this discussion so what i say was just my opinion based on my testing on ptr that could not even be what is on live
so just wait proper sim and see 😃
tough whale
I just think you're far overvaluing vanish instead of the vendetta, but we'll just wait for sims
rustic onyx
you're probably right even tho what i valued was how you lined up those cd together
like when we played triple garrote trait
you hold vendetta 20~seocnd
which is around the reduction you get from the minor
tough whale
That was because of how SS and subterfuge worked
rustic onyx
true but isn't 50% crit during tb and envenom windows juicy aswell
tough whale
this is master assassin, so its 4 seconds of vanish value instead of the 18+ from multiple garrotes
rustic onyx
true true
tough whale
meaning its easier to implement
Also Fuu pointed out to me about our stat weights and quick sim essence issue
ionic matrix
It's essentially an extra 120k damage to hold vanish on average
tough whale
is that /simc is commenting out the essences
if you /simc export to quick sim or stat weights
ionic matrix
But what do you lose by not vendetta on cd
tough whale
remove the # before you sim
for some reason everything but top gear is commenting out essences to not be simm'd
scenic torrent
Feels bad being on interview and seeing bosses are up
vestal wren
thats not entirely right, only comment out the first line
the 2nd one is probably a parameter for the combinator
spice cloak
would iris just be a better choice middle ground of both ST/AOE?
opal sierra
I am wondering is it season 3 next week?
opal sierra
kk i c thanks
tough whale
@wise whale rank 3 adds leech on use, and the passive gives vers whenever it refunds resource
no duration change
wise whale
ah I didn notice the leech, thx. The Tooltip says Leech rate+0
tough whale
Wowhead supposedly says its 874 leech and 543 vers, but all subject to change id imagine
wise whale
Does it take long to get a bodyguard to rank 3?
tough whale
rank 3 is 2 days
wise whale
nice
tough whale
its after that where its a struggle haha
scenic torrent
I guess after returning home it's time to do dailies and then bgs
strange python
What do you need to do to get rank 2 lucid
tough whale
3k follower xp
wise whale
I would imagine rank 3 and 4 are not that important as they only add leech
strange python
Do you have a link to somewhere i can see all t his ?
wise whale
tough whale
That's it
tough whale
you get minor + major when its in your primary slot
wise whale
im learning alot thx
tough whale
So if youre using a major essence you also benefit from its minor
wise whale
great
strange python
so to get rank 3 you need like 20 days
tame cobalt
how so?
wise whale
top lvl gearing will be complicated if you have to balance al the essences with all their ranks and also their synergy with the different azerite traits
strange python
you need 6k follower xp for rank 3
tame cobalt
nicely time gated stuff again
tough whale
i mean all essences are time gated tbh
half of them are time gated until raid comes out, s3 starts, you farm 150k honor, etc
tame cobalt
farming something is not time gated
wise whale
as long as there are no daily caps it is not time gated
tame cobalt
as you can farm it, while u cant farm xp until quests
tough whale
Ok then let me correct myself there are TWO essences that are not time gated
vestal wren
@spice cloak yo cant unlock iris yet, it seems super strong on sims
tame cobalt
@tough whale Sorry if i sounded like a cunt
wise whale
+4 m+ in season 3 for iris
tame cobalt
had to do 5 tries for epic bg 😄
torpid cradle
I did It First try thanks god
polar shale
+4 is for rank 1:,can go straight to a +7 for rank 2
violet yew
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
violet yew
strange python
whats the proc rate for lucid minor?
brisk wadi
so maybe i missed it but we wanna farm lucid dreams? how do i get it?
modern forge
Guys, can anyone tell me why this macro is not activating Vendetta? /use Lustrous Golden Plumage
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Blood of the Enemy
/cast Vendetta
red saddle
because Blood of the enemey is on gcd
bronze vortex
!essence
vestal wren
!essencechart
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Major Essence chart: https://bit.ly/2xdr7P8
Note: This might change slightly with gear and essence rank, do a sim.
vestal wren
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
warm harbor
what potions do we use now?
vestal wren
faint harness
Will the proximity potion ever be worth? How many do you need to get more than regular agi potion
vestal wren
best is to just sim it tbh
faint harness
20% crit seems pretty bonkers tho
Blizzard really want fire mages to do good this patch
vestal wren
i assume there will be a balancing pass
faint harness
very likely
its off topic but i hear from guildie fire mages that lucid dreams active means they get double the amount of pyros during combustion 
vestal wren
subtlety seems to underperform quite abit now
(outside of jaina mythic with 1 good parse)
restive inlet
Sub needs a rework imo. It's niche got ruined when combo got deleted:(
torpid cradle
Legion sub was fun
vestal wren
it lacks aoe, so f.ex. giving it EB would have been suefficient to make it somewhat compatitive in m+
for st, its biggest issues lie in the extremely bad target switch and high uptime requirements
2nd one can also be solved by reworking tfd and maybe buffing dark slightly
dps rankings in general (not suprisingly) did not change significantly
assassination still is very good
not sure if the DH buff and essences might make it a bit to good
cold patio
@vestal wren from where is this potion screenshot?
vestal wren
wowhead guide
cold patio
oh okay thx 😅
thorn moth
Are the little things like get 2 evenoms in one TB still something we want to try to do?>
Just got back into this from legion
Seems pretty similar they just removed kingsbane 😦
And then mantle basically still there with the talent and vanish > garrote or vanish>rupture or maybe even vanish>tb?
tropic ocean
real bay
2 is minimum what you want to get
tame cobalt
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
scenic torrent
better question is !essence up to date?
It shows top tier blood of the enemy and discord told me its not that great ...
inner citrus
do you guys go overcap on energy when using lucid?
also how do we change the talent setup we have on bloodmallet
nimble tartan
not overcapping energy
inner citrus
i cant seem to consume enuf energy when i use lucid dreams (major)
even if i spam mut mut + finisher
ripe nimbus
man i dont have room on my bars to hold 3 different potions
pls resim and find different answer kthnxbye
charred moat
wonder if the 440 stones any good
warm parcel
Feeling lazy? Use agi
ripe nimbus
thats my secret im always lazy
warm parcel
😄
tropic ocean
@charred moat don'T think so you get some nice looking trinkets very early in the raid
charred moat
that 440 ilvl though, good for boosting
scenic torrent
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
uncut cave
anyone have an alternative plate WA? Tidyplates/threat plates stopped showing combo points on the enemy health bar since the update
rigid mango
still canopy
Hey I might be a bit late for the party - but is there any point in stacking Nothing Personal or is one of them enough?
rigid mango
Yes
First one is the best, but even after that point they're one of the best traits in the game
For st.
still canopy
does that also translate into pvp?
still canopy
alright thanks 😃
rigid mango
Gl
hardy mural
is the mechagon trinket better than harlans. like 400 harlans, i cant sim myself cos havent got it 😦
or its just roughly same
subtle aurora
Hey guys are the essences interchangeable?
Or once replaced, the original one is gone and hafta be farmed again?
flint jetty
you can swap em like talents
subtle aurora
Ah ok great
Followwr xp time gate sucks
Only one follower per day and u gotta do the correct dailies for the relevant xp right?
worldly iron
flint jetty
Does anyone know the correct usage for Lucid major? Would it be during Vendetta or like the latter half of it maybe?
royal lantern
apperantly when you are low energy, doesnt matter if it lines up with cd's
royal lantern
nah, if you use it durring vendetta you will just cap with no gain
faint harness
atm i use it with 2nd or 3rd TB, cant remember which
it makes sense to me that you want more envenoms during tb, even if you pool beforehand
tame cobalt
Which traits do i take on engi helm for dungeons?
slender smelt
hey. is anyone having an issue with their stealth breaking randomly?
wet vault
Hey guys, would you consider playing more assa in mythic+ now with the outlaw changes and the essences ?
lusty narwhal
Anyone bothered using the Force Multiplier enchant yet
thorn edge
Lucid + vendetta = overcap (I have it and have tried). Have to wait for 2nd or 3rd toxic blade (basically wait until you have no energy)
near apex
@slender smelt are u using worldvein essence?
near apex
Cause I had that issue when I was using it
slender smelt
cos the passive spawns a vein yeah
near apex
I believe that when it procs it destealths u
subtle aurora
Hey guys I have never pvped before, save for the occasion horde kill with wm on. Any tips for pvping? Lol
Am trying to farm the blood Essence
slender smelt
thanks @near apex
cobalt leaf
quick question anyone else siming the same dps with lucid ?
my dps hasnt changed at all and ive logged in and out
even ran an advanced sim
spice surge
Are you using the simc addon? And have it updated?
spice surge
It should just work automatically, but if you're doing an advanced sim just remove the # before the essence lines
cobalt leaf
right okay ill try that now cheers eleem
azerite_essences=27:1
azerite_essences_available=4:1/12:1/27:1
should look like that now then 😃 ?
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
cobalt leaf
thats another one also bloodmallet says lucid sims better
wowhead saying blood is better ?
anyone able to confirm yet ?
cobalt leaf
okay them im guessing once we get neck up blood with lucid in a minor
cobalt leaf
right okay
lusty narwhal
Whats the new enchant like , anyone using it
upbeat geode
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
spice surge
New enchant is good, use one
lusty narwhal
Pog
cursive adder
im overcapping energy during vendetta and lucid, should i drop haste now? sims says yes idk how accurate it is
lean thorn
Hey guys
Where do you put the very first essence in your opener for now?
afaik it's vital to proc it asap and "get 2 stacks before the fight" doesn't work
Is it worth to screw up the opener to fit it in?
Of course it will be changed shortly but I'm just curious
real bay
doubt it's worth using till you're not gonna cap energy or screw the opener in other ways
you can get rank1 blood quite fast
or lucid
dark crag
Is blood on the gcd?
spice surge
yes
dark crag
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
atomic willow
what enchants do we use for weapons now......the new one (force multiplier) and quick or deadly navigation on oh?
rigid mango
Force + highes simming one
atomic willow
well i was asking so i didn't have to do 2 enchants and sim em both
rigid mango
Yeah imagine if stat prios changr
And best is specific for you dependant on your stuff
shy axle
did you change your azerite St setup or still running 3 DD/NP/bbi/tk variations?
spice surge
@atomic willow You can sim without actually changing your enchants ingmae
rigid mango
Still that
spice surge
Raidbots.com > Topgear
rigid mango
Dd gains a lot of value thanks to lucid
shy axle
eager to try it out, 1 quest left
rigid mango
^^
dusty vigil
Just checked Warcraftlogs, and there is WAY more people with MA and 3xDD topping. Did that get better with some specific essence or smt?
atomic willow
thnx @spice surge i should've known that haha
dusty vigil
@rigid mango But I felt like there were so many 3xSS and Subterfuge on the boards cuz that was better in a real encounter
real bay
logs are separated by patch, most are likely playing MA DD
not much logs yet
either way
rigid mango
3ss is better for padding in a lot of fights yeah
shy axle
@dusty vigil it is still a very good setup if you have 2+ targets available
and for padding like zine said
rigid mango
With lower kill times, running 3ss and going ham on cleave will give u good logs
But last 3 have barely any cleave so
cobalt pelican
my best st sim as nelf right now is like 2ss 2np and ceph but since the sim is kinda borked w/e
rigid mango
I would also assume no one cares about logs yet
So people are trying shit for prog
Over logging
valid spoke
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
shy axle
anyone tried blood essence in myth+ already? how do you like it?
short jacinth
@faint harness new enchant are available
short jacinth
Yea 165+ I believe
shy axle
ok thanks for the opinion man
thought lucid would be straight st so far, but did not dig that far into it for now
faint harness
it smoothes out energy no matter if its aoe or st
rigid mango
Assa feels shitty for m+
faint harness
Woot
rigid mango
Yes
faint harness
dump all haste
faint harness
why wouldnt you use lucid for bosses 
rigid mango
It wont be the pick there for sure
dusky tinsel
im guessing lucid just feels better than blood in M+ with super low haste, but I at least want to try out the crit gains from blood essence
rigid mango
I meant m+*
rocky ruin
nope at 3 or more
faint harness
i'm mostly energy capped in m+
faint harness
no
rigid mango
Inf energy
dusky tinsel
think seli mentioned something like 3x garrote>r>fok>r>blood essence and fok 100 times
faint harness
if you run blood essence
rigid mango
If it's correct
faint harness
we're strictly talking lucid here
rigid mango
You use 3 garrote > rup > fok build > rup > blood > fok spam
Why would you need 3 ruptures to get inf tho
grizzled crypt
did u just copy pasta kasharan xD
faint harness
i was watching seli play assa in m+ since he's undoubtedly the best sin player in m+ and he used to do 4 ruptures 🤷
shy axle
i assume he means when the garrotes are not longer present, that 4 ruptures are enough to sustain energy
faint harness
like a week ago
rigid mango
You need 5 bleeds our
Out*
So 3 g 2 rup
Is fastest way to get inf energy
And is the way people, seli included, use
faint harness
yea so why would you use lucid on trash, if you used it for m+
rigid mango
You wouldn't ever use lucid in m+
faint harness
but thats the only thing we were talking about
unless you started your own conversation in the middle of it
rigid mango
But why would you ever use lucid in m+?
faint harness
if you dont have bote yet?
neon sedge
That wowhead class guide said blood was good
faint harness
well it has obvious synergy with EB
rigid mango
But it's so easy to get?
Just get blood, forget about lucid and never use it in m+ again
vestal wren
wowhead guide will be updated with apl advancement 😉
faint harness
Are you able to stay on topic though? We were not talking about lucid viability in m+
But how it should be used, if you use it
in m+
raven spire
not everyone is that sweaty
rigid mango
But just, don't.
raven spire
lol
sullen hollow
Ey, is there anyone who can give me any tips for what not to do and what to do as a rogue going through mechagon and nazjatar here
I have come a day late after the patch
worldly iron
@sullen hollow that's a #wow-general topic
sullen hollow
It could be spec directed
as in
What piece of benthic would suit me best as assa
Correct me if I am wrong.
solid nova
The stats are fixed
neon sedge
Yeah
faint harness
get all of the benthics
faint harness
you dont have many choices afaik
sullen hollow
Nah there isnt, but there might have been one that was better in the long run
faint harness
anyone that gets a socket
polar cape
Crit dmg boots, belt with aberration dmg and i tink there is a dmg bracer
sudden ocean
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
inner citrus
running vigor with lucid overcaps me even if i pop lucid
faint harness
inner citrus
am i doing something very wrong?
i usually spam mut to 4-5cp then finisher when lucid is up
but it overcaps me sometimes
gentle path
what do you guys think of the new weapon enchant? worth or no
sand whale
fathom crag
So, what're we feeling regarding assa or outlaw for m+
i know we cant really know until we can play with the affix for s3
rigid mango
Can't say
spice surge
They were two of the best specs before the patch and the patch doesnt have any major changes to them
fathom crag
but our aoe feels rather god awful
rigid mango
It'll come down to how many you need to kill
spice surge
Its fair to say they will continue to be one of the best specs
@fathom crag Assa aoe isnt bad
Its far from bad
fathom crag
I think im hanging up my fury for assa finally
spice surge
Sustained aoe its the among best in the entire game
rigid mango
Idd
rigid mango
Also it's unlimited
My bet is that s2 meta flips
Assa best according to all, outlaw really close but people think it's way further
fathom crag
well, time to dust off the daggers
rigid mango
In the end, the two specs are still such miles away from any other spec it's not even funny
But we'll have to wait and see I suppose
fathom crag
Are we thinking about switching out vigor for stratagem if lucid is being ran
spice surge
no
rigid mango
Doubt it
fathom crag
Yeah that was more of st
spice surge
Ok mb, but still not really
fathom crag
mk
rigid mango
DS is just awk af for assa to play around it seems
fathom crag
In M+ we're running the laser i assume
spice surge
Finishers arent really doing that much damage and extra energy regen is way too important
rigid mango
PB
Idk about the two before blood r3
I think on r3 it looks quite insane, but before then I'm not sure it does more than raw dmg
stuck knoll
It gives crit chance and some damage
spice surge
Probably not CT, possibly hidden
stuck knoll
So not huge
spice surge
Blood increases fok dmg by like 60% when its up (r3 that is)
rigid mango
I mean it's like
marble hemlock
idk, played it one run earlier, dont really see the hype for blood
r3 is really huge for aoe, still shit for bosses
and its not like we need more aoe except in burst+low target scenarios
spice surge
Its not shit in st though
rigid mango
It seems quite good on st
marble hemlock
on hightarget counts, you dont really benefit that much from higher crit, since you get 4-5 echos already with the crit we have
rigid mango
Maybe that's just w ma tho
spice surge
But i mean, what else would you run
rigid mango
Iris
marble hemlock
iris or lucid
spice surge
The iris minor is garbage
marble hemlock
even visions might be good for m+
rigid mango
It's like haste
spice surge
Tooltip says 97k for me ingame
marble hemlock
having vendetta up more often for prio
and lucid would allow you to get away with less dots for energy
aka more foks
but yeah, lucid is a maybe
spice surge
As i've said in #tc-research iris in simc doesnt work at all like the tooltip suggests
So i suspect it overvalued by quite a bit
rigid mango
Lucid still seems poopie to me idk
marble hemlock
vision might be good in m+ where we dont play around vanish CDs for dps as much
spice surge
Ye
marble hemlock
so we actually benefit from the shorter cooldown
marble hemlock
and lucid is similar, since we dont run high-haste and no np, we actually get to use the energy during vendetta
whereas in a raid setting you overcap, but in m+ thats not gonna happen
rigid mango
That's true
marble hemlock
and you can easily use lucid as a burst cd by just not garroting on opener, since you can just pop lucid and spam fok for 10gcds without starving
the heal from the lucid minor might also be quite useful
outer estuary
yo, how is assa feeling in comparison to outlaw now?
rigid mango
0 ss'd garrotes 
marble hemlock
well, that was for burst aoe like saurids
drowsy rune
i found a mistake in the guide am i pro rogue yet
rigid mango
Fair
fathom crag
So question regarding AOE, how many targets do we rupture before beginning the FOK/envenom spam? I know we garrote as many as possible
marble hemlock
no, but you can apply to become an editor
you only garrote if its empowered ones
so 3
fathom crag
Yeah from stealth
marble hemlock
then you rupture 2 more to have a 3g+2r setup for sustain
spice surge
You need a total of 4 bleeds to not go negative with your energy
marble hemlock
once those 3 garrotes run out, you increase the rupture count to 4 or 5, depending on how much haste you have
spice surge
^
subtle aurora
So 2xeb+3xttk or 3xeb+2xttk for m+ guys?
rigid mango
- 1 ss, yes
marble hemlock
depends on affixes/dungeon/groupcomp
rigid mango
Both're good
rigid mango
^
subtle aurora
Aye thanks
rigid mango
Whaddaya think about np with void thingies seli
marble hemlock
it'd basically depend on whether the vision will give you an additional vendetta per bossfight
which depends on tyra/fort and keylevel
rigid mango
Hm fair
Cuz the sound of np for void sounds pretty good to me
But idk
I might just be overvaluing it in my head and ss/ttk is just better
marble hemlock
but in any case, i think a lot of people are hyping up blood right now due to the "insane aoe" when thats the least of our concerns since our aoe is already rocksolid
id rather improve our prio to be able to stand out a bit more on that end, or improve our somewhat lackluster ST
rigid mango
I mean I think pre r3 it looks v meh
I do agree ST feels lackluster
But a lot of them seem meh for aoe whilst good for st
fathom pawn
anyone know the split of ST vs add swap fights in eternal palace?
rigid mango
Google probs
marble hemlock
idk, lucid seems really good overall
rigid mango
Or #wow-general
rigid mango
R3 stuff sure
marble hemlock
the heal as well on minoir, and we can get away with less multidotting if the energy proc is consistent
tribal marlin
I thought about vision too in case it could help with priority essecpially with thoose "monsters" that coming in with s3
rigid mango
I mean how consistsnt is the energy refund?
marble hemlock
r3 lucid s gonna take a while though since you need lv10 on each companion
rigid mango
Lucid ye
marble hemlock
worldvein also looked interesting
rigid mango
But that's excluded all the extra xp
marble hemlock
if everyone runs it
rigid mango
Which one's that?
tribal marlin
agility shards ?
marble hemlock
ye
for entire grp
if everyone has it, should be basically perma uptime on max-stacks for everyone
spice surge
Yeah thats probably good
sudden ocean
what's the verdict on when to use Lucid Dream atm
sudden ocean
yeah so save it for when needed cool
spice surge
Or rather, dont try to line it up, if it lines up with a tb thats great
But dont force it
fierce comet
if you end up using it a little bit after your opener it can work well
sudden ocean
hard to deplete my enegy enough with the current gear but we'll see
fierce comet
then you have a pretty long window of energy
echo jay
Yeah last night I was using it after my opener and then it kind of lined up with 3rd TB
fierce comet
yeah or you could use it after a minute or so and then you have guaranteed energy every minute
but using it with vendetta seems pointless
spice surge
spice surge
requires a bit of knowledge about simc
fierce comet
oh did you set it for under 50 energy or something
spice surge
wat
fierce comet
it says that on there is that just the name
spice surge
Yes, the names of the profiles is the condition in which they use lucid
fierce comet
oh
spice surge
@rigid mango I did a scuffed spreatsheet to calculate roughly the difference between iris and blood. I only accounted for fok (so blood>9foks VS iris>6.5foks) and not the poisons/bleeds so its slightly skewed towards making iris better.
With 40% crit, 3x 415 eb you need around 5 targets for blood=iris
And more targets = more damage for blood
upbeat viper
@eleem The sim seems a little low based on my experience on mythic champions last night. Not too sure if it's that or my details is broken.
stable oxide
Details was broken
upbeat viper
Oh, nevermind then :(
fierce comet
does anyone know what enchants are working well now
I don't trust it when I sim it lol
also mythic champions is no where near 5 minutes
so you should be doing more anyway
hidden plinth
whats your opinion about bloodmallets sims? https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=essences
spice surge
@hidden plinth My opinion is that its missguiding in the way its presented, as you cant get the majors without having the minors on them
and it also doesnt specify ranks at all (so i assume its all rank 3)
rigid mango
@spice surge sounds like bloods way better than I think
solemn meadow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fhvdMEascQYuUtHejLcgvj
lucid sims alot higher tthan blood
and kimbul is actually 100 dps upgrade from
410 dice
rigid mango
Was that r1/2/3 eleem?
spice surge
r3 on both ye
rigid mango
Hm
spice surge
Also worth noting that blood minor gives crit (and haste) whereas iris minor is only haste
rigid mango
Then it makes more sense
upbeat hazel
probably been asked before, but should i be using lucid dreams with vendetta?
spice surge
No, use it when low on energy
strange python
What's the verdict on Force Multiplier
upbeat hazel
gotcha
spice surge
@rigid mango In that i also assumed iris works like the tooltip says it does
If it works like its implemented in simc you need like 7.5 targets
brisk frost
is it worth to start upgrading new benthic items? or do i want to save manapearls for something, and if yes, for what?
strange python
You need 75 manapearls for the new profession forge
So I'd say get that then just spend them on whatever you want
rigid mango
Seems as if r3 blood is quite bonkers aoe wise
spice surge
Well if we want that aoe burst to begin with
rigid mango
Idd
spice surge
Its most likely just gonna be dependant on ilvl
More ilvl = blood and less ilvl = iris
Since blood scales and iris doesnt
strange python
Blood's real good in other shit, too
gleaming viper
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rigid mango
Yeah
It's just down to if everyone in the group can use it without potentially losing out too big on smth else
If certain ess is too good for certain spec
strange python
BotE Major + Lucid / VoP Minors
Idk how Vendetta use would be then, but it might be worth saving vendetta to line it up with BotE
rigid mango
Just how you drop all haste atm
I don't see lucid being too great on the basis of that
But maybe later you pick it solely for ST
As a minor
strange python
The crit from BotE passive and Lucid will give you lots of energy
But, from a pessimistic point of view I don't think that'll be the best combo for ST
rigid mango
Thing is majority of the time in an m+, you're not worried about it
strange python
or overall, even
strange python
Feel bad for the lot having to farm BotE rank 3 without enjoying pvp
reminder to farm rank 3 this week because of weekly
real bay
best do it now anyway xd
hearty junco
Are we using Focused resolve potion or the new agility one on st?
also i cant seem to find how long focused is up
rigid mango
Focused is the play
spice surge
25s
rigid mango
If you're focusinf one target.
grim canopy
is there any special way to farm bte? just spam epic bgs?
spice surge
If you're curious on how good the new pot is
strange python
Nah, spam regular bg's
strange python
you can win those faster and more easily
Epic bgs WILL give you more on average, but only if you win
and you can only affect that factor so much
spice surge
@rigid mango That pot is essentially 1440 crit rating, compared to the 1300 agi 😄
strange python
If you have a 5-man group, I recommend farming Southshore vs. Tarren Mill
Coordination can wipe the enemy group
Just run 5 rogues with FoK specs
grim canopy
lol
strange python
and you have a death squad on your hands
and BotE
just run in all 5
BotE > FoK spam
real bay
fok pvp talent triple EB gggz
rigid mango
@spice surge 
strange python
You get atleast 100k+ DPS done from that burst per rogue
latent tendon
Rank 3 is 50k honor isn't it?
spice surge
Yes
latent tendon
Rip. Time to get farming then
raven spire
so is outlaw still best for m+ after patch?
strange python
I'm already on 10k honor
real bay
50k total, you can see on the achievement
raven spire
or does assass compete
strange python
dw it goes quickly
raven spire
yeah but not quite on aoe
spice surge
Yes it could
raven spire
close
raven spire
good to hear
vestal wren
the crit pot is insane
rigid mango
It is indeed
spice surge
Gonna look into and see if its even worth using MA with blood
Seems like if you have 80% crit already
raven spire
the 3 garrote opener, is that 3 garrotes on separate targets?
spice surge
Adding 20% isnt gonna help much
vestal wren
haha, yes
spice surge
Well yeah, im just gonna do all sims with r3
Since thats what you're realistically are gonna have when doing mythic progress
rigid mango
Wasn't it like 90?
strange python
3 weeks til mythic, yes
spice surge
Its unclear if its 6k total or 6k each
Or nah its prob each, so thats 18k
So yeah not for mythic progress
rigid mango
It's a while ye
strange python
Well, the "Friends in Need" achievment tracked xp retroactively
spice surge
Friends in needs also explicitly says "combined"
This one is reaching rank 10 with all 3 of them
AKA 18k exp
Or 60 days without any random increases, assuming you dont unlock more quests when reaching higher rep
rigid mango
So that's what
strange python
ugh
faint harness
It says 6k total
rigid mango
And I aint even started yet 
faint harness
Theres no way lucid is taking more than double the time than other rank 3s
spice surge
It says r10 of all followers
strange python
But that's just the criteria
spice surge
But if its 300 per level on all levels, then its 9k and not 18k
tame cobalt
what do you need for r3 blood?
spice surge
50k honor
tame cobalt
guess my new favorite thing is pvp
simple meteor
favorite😢
gentle path
What are you guys thinking for azerite trait / essence setup for m+?
faint harness
6k total
is what it is
not 6k on all 3
- you can get more than 300 each day
there are rares and other things that give follower xp
strange python
redpill me
spice surge
Well then, guess wowhead tooltips are incorrect
faint harness
you can buy a 75 follower xp token from the murloc today
simple meteor
oh that's why every alliance was on murlocks like 50 people was camping it
spice surge
@faint harness Is that from the cloak or just standard murloc
Ive been unlucky with cloaks
spice surge
Its cloak
faint harness
also you can just buy it from the vendor
spice surge
?
faint harness
i dont think there are may versions of benthic gear