Wdym 
#assassination
solid nova
narrow orchid
Dont think so
tropic ocean
tropic ocean
DOUBLE ASSA
blissful tide
Yeah 2 rogues a monk a warrior tank and a r Druid really shaking up the meta there
tropic ocean
h8rs
distant lava
tfw breaking the meta is going from best melee to 2nd best melee
I don't see you on enhanc or arms there aus
blissful tide
Or feral druid
stable oxide
Guys, what is your opinion of having 3 rogues in your raidroster :P?
stable oxide
Jesus
distant lava
14 rogues
stable oxide
How many raiders do you have in your roster?
vast forum
2 of those 4 are on trial and 1 isn't currently actively raiding π
tropic ocean
Think we had 6 or 7 melee in first kill
distant lava
did I misunderstand the question
rigid mango
what yoppa said
tropic ocean
Sadly not all rogues
faint harness
We use 2 rogues
faint harness
2 rogues 1 dh and then perhaps another one
stable oxide
I think 2 rogues is a healthy number for the current position of melee dps vs range dps
We have 6 melee dps in the roster
3 of them are rogues
faint harness
Current state of melee dps
stable oxide
3 rogues, 2dh, 1 warrior
rigid mango
melees in general suck
stable oxide
we have 14 range dps :P
solid nova
#wow-general is that way
rigid mango
tropic ocean
How is 3 rogues wow general
stable oxide
How many Assassination rogues do you have in the raid :P
tropic ocean
1 π
faint harness
2
stable oxide
I wanna stay here with my trusted assassination buddies
faint harness
He says with sub colour
stable oxide
I had some discussions with my raidleader (the one who also said I was not allowed to use Lurkers) :p
tropic ocean
^ loool
faint harness
How did it go
tropic ocean
I use lurker even in jaina p3 or on stormwall boat
stable oxide
I used Lurkers in 4 reclears. At a certain moment he saw me using it. And he was like "The fuck are you doing"
I was like.... but i've been using this for 4 reclears already :'(
Anyways, in my guild half the melee team consists of rogues...
distant lava
not allowed to use lurkers 
just play with oppulence trinket and bwomsamdi
and tell him "I'm not dying what's the problem"
stable oxide
He says "if everyone is using that it's gonna be a problem"
faint harness
Sounds like ur RL is on a powertrip
stable oxide
I think only me and a warrior were initially using it xD
faint harness
On farm
stable oxide
I should tag him here xD
faint harness
I bet your healers like you
stable oxide
He is on this discord for recruitement :P
faint harness
Powertrips
solid nova
Yeah, Nah.
tropic ocean
Well my healers have no problem with it
I mean if you farm the bose healing shouldnt be an issue
faint harness
It wasnt even sarcasm
tropic ocean
Especially with low stacks now
faint harness
My healers like when i take dmg
stable oxide
I don't know man
So I secretly used lurkers and the next raid he benched me on Jaina xD
stable oxide
So I saw a had a horrible log on Grong, and wanted to have an easy log :P so I used a vantus rune on Grong. He didn't really like that either :P
distant lava
guys I'm playing sin tonight 
can't wait to mess up TB windows cause I lack practice
ripe nimbus
Well vantus won't make or break ur log so I can see why he doesn't like u. Parse whore
stable oxide
xD
distant lava
I mean he's mad at you for wasting your money 
tropic ocean
Idk i always try to log when its not hurting raid
On rasta i cloaked fire into whole group for uptime
ππΌ
stable oxide
it's minmaxing :P But let me explain my situation. The officers chose not to progress Mythic CoS. So the only thing we do for the last 6 weeks now is reclearing BoD Mythic
distant lava
fishing for procs 
royal lantern
i had a somewhat simmelar situation with lurkers tbh
RL went furious when i used it on jaina p2
''allready too much preasure on the healers, why do you do that''
stable oxide
And when you are only reclearing. the only fun thing to do is that little competition you have with logs
royal lantern
because you dont even notice when 1 guy drops too 50%over 20sec lol
tropic ocean
Idk not using lurkers
stable oxide
Obviously I don't do this shit on progress
ripe nimbus
Okay but cloaking the fire gets rid of it entirely it doesn't splash on anyone so...
faint harness
If you're dying to lurkers consistently then its an issue
faint harness
Thats bad play tho, and isnt related to the trinket
distant lava
I was wacking a dummy for sin practice the other day, forgot about lurker, died
strange python
loleh
royal lantern
if lurkers would do like 2x your max hp over the effect
ofc, but its ~50%over the duration lol
faint harness
Tell ur holy paladin to keep glimmer on you for easy heals
distant lava
it's more than 50% iirc
faint harness
Its not a small amount of dmg in the last seconds
tropic ocean
But with mitigation
I guess
Raw dmg should be 200-210k if im not wrong
We just gonna kill jaina today i think im gonna use lurkers π€·πΏββοΈ
royal lantern
i drop too like ~45%without any healing
distant lava
does that go up with ilvl ?
distant lava
I'll go home and see
tropic ocean
It will take roughly 70-75% of ur hp
Depending on ur ilvl and buff ofc and mitigation
tame basin
Hey guys, can you tell me what are the best traits for this week affixes for Assa? I'm going some 15+m. Normally I'm focusing on SS + EB for aoe, but don't know if I shouldn't go more single target for Tyranical week
tropic ocean
Test out yourself it will depeng on what your group needs
2eb 2 ttk 2ss is pretty standard and always fits
rigid mango
2/2/2 or 3 ttk/eb 2 ttk/eb 1 ss
royal lantern
@tropic ocean tbf you still have your normal life reg and i think i have resounding protection, wich holds me up too? idk need too check
tropic ocean
Personally i have 3eb 2 ttk 1 ss
rigid mango
Same
tropic ocean
And i switch to ss np 2 ttk 2 eb for kr and tos tyran
Thats it
With current affix and depending on key lvl u can easy pull trash into boss
Or at least thats what I do
short jacinth
With my gear the best I can come up with is 3eb 1ttk and 1 ss or 3eb 2ttk, what's my best option in that case?
tribal marlin
BotE still strong for assa
distant lava
Missing 1 trait
fleet whale
what is BoTE?
short jacinth
It would be scent of blood if I remember right
fleet whale
oh the new essence
vapid scarab
I mean, when you have vision of perfection proccing NP, not really
fleet whale
I'm planning on grinding out lucid dream when 8.2 hits
tribal marlin
Vision of perfection I don't like it
distant lava
I'd say first one but not really sure, nit having SS is 
in m+
fleet whale
cause it looks like that is tied to the new bodyguard system
short jacinth
Ok cool ty
tribal marlin
it hve a lot of issue:
- If it proc during Vendetta, it doesn't refresh NP and is mostly wasted
- if it proc twice in a raw, it doesn't refresh NP
- It desynch vendetta with vanish/trink
Sometime it proc in downtime or when you are low energy / no TB
fleet whale
yeah but a dps gain is a dps gain
tribal marlin
Sometime it doesn't proc at all
fleet whale
it's an rng crapshoot for sure
i wonder if the active(major) of lucid dream will be good for assassin
tribal marlin
Imma do a bit of Vision test but for now bote is the only one that allow me to pass 25k unbuff
holy crap guys
they broke vision of perfection + NP
First, it no longer proc NP to full duration, only 25% of it's base duration
2nd I don't know why, but I used vendetta and NP didn't triggered
Ok that's worst that I expected
Vision of perfection broke NP, it simply don't proc at all when you press Vendetta, only proc when Vision proc, and for 25% of base duration. Gonna report with hope they fix it before live ...
tribal marlin
Well even if they fix it, the fact that Vision only proc NP for 25% base duration is intended and quite sad
distant lava
Would have been broken tbh
tribal marlin
Well back in the days BotE was busted, it was stronger :3
distant lava
And it got 
tribal marlin
I think imma still farm it when it hit live
distant mist
Yea that vision of perfection bug is aweful
Was super upset when nothing personal wasnβt even procing off vendetta uses
tribal marlin
is this bug on the ptr for a long time ?
I assume it is since they fixed the NP full duration proc on Vision proc but I don't know when
naive rapids
Vendetta not triggering NP has been a bug for a few PTR builds now
I think its from the vision of perfection proc. After one single proc it will prevent any subsequent casted vendettas from triggering NP until logging out. NP will still trigger on vision procs though
fleet whale
Honestly i don't think i could stomach doing pvp to get blood of the enemy
supple compass
Whatβs better along with 3 eb, 2x ss 1 ttk or 1ss 2 ttk
hidden plinth
whats the procc from bote?
tropic ocean
2 ttk @supple compass for me
ripe nimbus
I'm thinking lucid dreams will be BiS for minor and purification protocol/unbound force for major they gutted blood of the enemy essence didn't they?
tribal marlin
yes but
hidden plinth
@ripe nimbus you don't think blood of the enemy will work really good with our burst ?
tribal marlin
well at least with my dummi testes, bote still is ahead
unbound force is really bad, it is way harder to make it proc at the good time
spice surge
Holding it for 30seconds every time though D:
tribal marlin
bursty wise, consended life force is quite good
bleak spoke
It somewhat lines if you have the cdr from vop minor
Which could be worth looking into
civic palm
Will see > _>
distant lava
maybe with ss
peak musk
hmm where is the essence preview guide? :/
bleak spoke
if i play ss on jaina i don't get a second vendetta on the boat 
quasi pewter
@tropic ocean But there is no padding in BoD 
quasi pewter
getting blocks in p1 and wondering why you cant push 
tropic ocean
I paid some gold to get extra blocks :>
distant lava
that's dirty
bleak spoke
Loool
jovial cedar
Hi guys, is there a haste percentage considered enough? when simming it shows that haste is still my highest stats, but im at 18% with barely 20% crit...
I feel like crit is higher value now but im surprised that simming still shows haste higher
civic palm
So keep getting haste so long you are doing the encounters you are simming for.
jovial cedar
I heard lot of rogues are sitting at 30% crit, for the raid in MM, I cant be possibly 10 points lower than everyone else
drifting cloud
you heard wrong
jovial cedar
so what is "standard"?
civic palm
That you SIM what is best for the encounter.
and if there isn't a perfect template you use your noodle.
jovial cedar
I think it is still good to know where ppl sit
just to get the idea
im constantly simming too
jovial cedar
well yes socket play a big part ofc
drifting cloud
like theres no magic numbers
jovial cedar
not asking for magic number
drifting cloud
the rings you have are going to swing those stats around the most
civic palm
Just, numbers...
drifting cloud
and since the good 2 rings from raid dont have crit on them
unless you have JC ring + some random weekly one or a m+ drop
and unless you have an insane cloak you are almost always using the 2 set in BOD atleast
red plaza
jovial cedar
Thanks
jovial cedar
π
drifting cloud
I mean hes not wrong
spice surge
A 400 ring with haste+mastery isnt going to be better than a 425 ring with socket and vers+crit
drifting cloud
I dont fucking know how much stats I have, becaues it doesnt matter
spice surge
Even though haste and mastery are your best stats
drifting cloud
I just wear whatever sims the highest
civic palm
In all reality just use the higher item level item and the best traits you have.
jovial cedar
@drifting cloud cool
drifting cloud
and then if you use the pants/boots from cos your stats become even worse on paper
but it doesnt matter ...
civic palm
=\
civic palm
Will see... pepomemewithoutproperformatting.
faint harness
i foresee wasted energy tho 
civic palm
Wasted energy doesn't matter.
ripe nimbus
Lucid as a major wouldn't be great u would more so use it as a minor for passive
opaque tree
So visions of perfection was nerfed a bit?
tribal marlin
not really, from testes I did, if you actually use it at the good moment
it's good
basically use Vendetta, TB at the end of TB when hitting 0energy use Lucid Dream
allow to keep spamming during the end of vendetta and make 2nd TB more suitable
with it's 120sec now it's possible to use it at every vendetta. From what I tested, both Major Lucid / Major BotE was equal in damage, but it was pre-hotfix
echo jay
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
ripe nimbus
BoTE and lucid dream majors are both less DPS then other majors I've tested but we will see
Basing a essence on opener isn't what u should do
civic palm
Unless it equates to more damage, which it might, but I doubt it.
ripe nimbus
Well Yeh I'm just saying if ur testing them by hitting ur cooldowns and a dummy for 2 mins ur testing it wrong unless of course ur actually testing for burst
civic palm
yarr
tribal marlin
I test 5m15s usually
I didn't get any essence doing more than BotE or Lucid
Condensate life force feels quite good too
ripe nimbus
You must not be using Unbound Force and Master assassin right then because it does stupid damage
tribal marlin
I did but it wasn't particullary high on 5mn fights
waxen vine
Stormglide steps worth using? Do sims calc full uptime or a %
barren fiber
should i aim for 3 nothing personals, or is stacking them useless?
spice surge
They dont drop to all damage
waxen vine
go by sim
spice surge
For example, they drop of jaina's dot
barren fiber
sim tells me to go only echoing blades π
spice surge
But nothing on conclave breaks them (except getting hit by raptors)
Then you're not simming ST :p
waxen vine
^
barren fiber
trying to find a mix between st and mythic + or w/e
worn violet
I am more interested in sims of burst for M+ , as we do not have definitive answers for strongest ST - do we have a current idea what is going to be bursty aoe, bursty ST, etc?
barren fiber
so i dont spend all my gold on reforging when its raid time
spice surge
Best raid traits are garbage for m+
waxen vine
3x shrouded 3x fok
spice surge
Best m+ traits are garbage for raid
meager nebula
Just get two Azerite sets
waxen vine
echo*
spice surge
You need different pieces like blade said
royal lantern
take no traits at all and be garbage at everything
worn violet
3xss 3xfok is well rounded for M+ - but im talking about the new majors/minors
royal lantern
not extremely good
royal lantern
and how much of that is padding?
civic palm
Just Jaina, probably.
royal lantern
^^^^^^^
worn violet
SS running exsang is stronk
barren fiber
hmm....
royal lantern
think for 2 seconds if you look at logs or sims lol
civic palm
...
ripe nimbus
How to thonk? π€
spice surge
But yeah, SS is a decent middle ground trait that is useable in both m+ and raid
civic palm
Just don't use EB in raid, EZPZ.
spice surge
But you still really should get 2 different sets
rigid mango
I'd say using 3 SS EB is not even close to wellrounded compared to 2/2/2
or even mroe ttk heavy builds
for m+
worn violet
What would make you say that? Strong single target, stronger 3 target cleave, strong aoe - only missed out on the prio damage aspect
rigid mango
Yeah
Exactly
Imagine having that + prio blast
It's like adding another level of complexity to the spec
worn violet
at the sacrifice of 3 target cleave or massive aoe
spice surge
for low keys SS is far better
rigid mango
That feels amazing to play with
worn violet
so its more comp specific
rigid mango
But shit dies
spice surge
The higher you get the worse SS becomes
rigid mango
I think not running 2/2/2
or atleast 2 ttk in every week
is a miss
To be quite honest
You're not maximising sin in its current m+ strength
ripe nimbus
"strength" xd
civic palm
_>
rigid mango
hm?
I think using every tool they have, including TTK atm
is the thing that makes them strong outside of obvious rogue utility
Since the current seasonal affix plays perfectly into outlaw and wits isn't changed yet, assa isn't the best
ripe nimbus
Wat makes them strong atm is the ability to change spec to outlaw
rigid mango
?
You do realise
Assa is close 2nd
best m+ spec
Right?
At the moment, assa is amazing and honestly, really not far from outlaw.
If it wasn't a perfect season for outlaw, sin would be best, no doubt.
civic palm
The irony being that the "perfect season" still isn't enough to make them the absolute, clear best.
rigid mango
Indeed
The fact that assa is THIS CLOSE even though the seasonal affix is what they're best at, speaks volumes.
tribal marlin
SS gets a lot of value if you play night elf
sonic bridge
its not game changing
civic palm
Extreme winner even.
rigid mango
It means you can still use vanish for dps
civic palm
Not close, BiS race.
rigid mango
By far
worn violet
SS is already super strong as it is .
rigid mango
idk
tribal marlin
ye ofc i'm talking about m+ when you can actually get restealth out of meld
civic palm
Well 3 more, same point.
royal lantern
i just think those guys are FotM rollers that will switch too the next class in 4 weeks lel
royal lantern
''wat makes them stron is the ability too change too outlaw'' not sure if that is a joke or if he has really no clue about sin in m+ right now
worn violet
Largely its because high end streamers were waiting to switch to assa until they had the traits they wanted
so they ran outlaw in the meantime
civic palm
o _O
worn violet
well I suppose many of them continue outlaw
rigid mango
Because it's very good, arguably better
worn violet
but it was considered "not on the table" until they had the traits
civic palm
Ye
rigid mango
And I'm talking like peak
barren fiber
i love all the rogue specs. i wish sub was a bit more viable tho
hopefully some buffs will reach it eventually
rigid mango
Let's not start another sub sobfest
civic palm
They don't need it > _>
worn violet
/sob
civic palm
They need some small reworks.
tribal marlin
People in my team was talking like assa was far behind outlaw in m+, they literrally had no clue until I show theim
civic palm
ok
worn violet
I can't tell you the amount of times in pugs I run into someone who had no idea that assa could pump damage
rigid mango
Assa deals more damage than outlaw if played correctly.
worn violet
and rolls
barren fiber
i havent really tried out echoes.
ripe nimbus
I was meme'in it's amazing how defensive u guys get lul. The fact of the matter is u could either spend an entire season gambling on azerite and wasting residuum or u could switch to outlaw and get the BiS azerite easily and save residuum for next season
And have 22k like me
rigid mango
So don't say stupid shit
royal lantern
saving residium for the next season is probably the most pointless thing in the game too be honest
you get 1 hc piece max, thats it
worn violet
Fact of the matter is that people have rng luck with azerite - and some had BIS pieces as sin and went outlaw because they were under the wrong impression that it was not a viable spec. :/
ripe nimbus
It's not a wrong impression outlaw is still better
rigid mango
I think mdi skewed way too many opinions
I'd argue that it's situational
And that outlaw isn't always better, just simpler to do very well with and brings a lot to the table
worn violet
Outlaw utility is legit - not gonna lie
tribal marlin
gouge is awesome for sure
rigid mango
Gouge, lower cd vanis that they can use whenever
Without losing dps
An in-rotation stun that applies prey
Yeah, pretty goos
rigid mango
Go bed vani
worldly iron
trying 
I enjoy the assassination channel though
rigid mango
I'm not.
worldly iron
for the most part, maybe I should add
devout gazelle
Guys Assas can be viable at m+ or outlaw is the only go to option?
rigid mango
Idk if ur joking or not.
devout gazelle
No i am not. New to rogue at bfa
midnight flower
I feel like the m+ sin people are gs fans
midnight flower
We been running it from the start of the season
devout gazelle
Tbh i dont really like outlaw but i see every rogue doing kkeys is outlaw
polar cape
Hotel, trivalaw
devout gazelle
but i guess i need specific traits like the garrote one and the fan of knives?
rigid mango
Yes
It's much harder to gear, play and optimise. That's a partial reason as to why it gets less play
tall pelican
Iβm Sin doing M+ 20 yes outlaw can do better aoe. However get to 20 onwards the health pools are much higher allowing Sin rupture to do its thing with EB I normally beat Outlaw. It also allows you to slow targets which in my opinion is the number 1 reason Sin is better
rigid mango
At aoe? Can be,
distant lava
in keys generally
tall pelican
Lol I beat outlaw all the time
rigid mango
Cool, good for you buddy
icy ember
this is a 
convo basically, they both do gud stuff
rigid mango
But do you realise how much value the outlaw gave the entire group?
From just pressing buttons?
hollow stone
Both are viable. Season is ending and meta will shake up. Play what you enjoy
rigid mango
What apple said
devout gazelle
tbh i really hate the rng fact on outlaw gameplay
rigid mango
Sin is also rng
tall pelican
Yep ask a tank that needs slows
rigid mango
devout gazelle
i really like assas tho but i think its sucks in aoe at keys especially in reaping
rigid mango
Ask the group
do you want more interrupts
more dmg?
yeah, no one would like that
Vanish whenever you want to for utility?
nah, no one.
You have to realise outlaw is better thanks to the inherent utility their kit brings to EVERY key
And the fact that the current season plays perfectly into its strenghts.
next season, who knows.
tall pelican
Any way when you play with the big boys and get away from little league you will see
distant lava
rigid mango
That outlaw still HEAVILY
distant lava
you do +20s big man
distant lava
sorry we know nothing kek
the difference between us is we know +20 is not the big bois league
tall pelican
Why are you even in this channel
meager nebula
perfect time to end it then
rigid mango
^
tall pelican
Anyway Gl my little pirate
devout gazelle
I think assas tho is gonna shine at s3 tbh
rigid mango
For sure
So far it's looking quite good
But we can only speculate about the strenghts
fleet whale
We don't know if it will "shine" but it will be a good spec regardless
unless if blizz nerfs something
rigid mango
Rogue's gonna have the best spec regardless
blissful moss
I saw they lowered the cd for lucid from 3 mins to 2 mins today. Thats gotta be healthy
rigid mango
Just a question of which
tropic ocean
you like assa rouge?
midnight flower
Having one sin one outlaw in your group 420iq
Donβt tell anyone about that itβs a secret
rotund pier
returning rogue, haven't played in a couple months, i hear sin will be best for the new raid, true or false?
rigid mango
True
rotund pier
amazing
fathom crag
sin is the only rogue spec with competitive single target so yes
dapper wraith
I'm confused - does shadowmeld trigger Subterfuge/MA or no?
rigid mango
It only triggers SS
But in non boss combat you can meld -> stealth and get full value of ss/ma
lusty gale
In my experience outlaw never lost to not only assa but anyone in overall dps that is and I also do 20 keys
Also gouge is just so good in keys
tribal marlin
With Lucid dream going to 2mn
lusty gale
But do whatever ur heart desires, don't like playstyle of outlaw play sin
tribal marlin
I have a feeling it will be verygood as major for Assa, at least in the 1only essence stage (before 55)
lusty gale
Which one is lucid again?
tribal marlin
Energy regen
Basically, once you did the opener in Vendetta and hit 0 energy, you active it. It allow you to keep spamming envenom during the 10 lasts second of vendetta and get near than 0 pooling before next TB. It was quite good with it at 3mn doing it one vendetta/2, but with it at 2mn
Change everything
lusty gale
I thought vision as a major would be better for that random vendetta proc together with vers
tribal marlin
Can't test Vision actually it's bugged
lusty gale
You are not that starved for nrgy on ur vendetta window are you?
tribal marlin
Before they broke it was "not that good" even with 3 NP traits
lusty gale
I can't remember did they show proc chance of it?
warm harbor
does the application of vendetta with the major power also apply NP?
tribal marlin
Well you are not during TB, but you start being starved few second after TB end
It does but only for 4sec
warm harbor
we are pop next tier boiz
tribal marlin
but the essence is currently bugged (it prevent legacy Vendetta to proc NP)
warm harbor
RE
tribal marlin
we hope for a fix w ith recent hotfix
lusty gale
Watching some of the raid ptr clips outlaws were pumping
warm harbor
any links?
tribal marlin
On dummie testes I went from 20.5k unbuff to 25k unbuff with Lucid / Life force
some other essence lead me to 23.5k+ too (Blood, Unboud force)
Lucid Dream might loose value over Life force if you add Bloodlust in the picture
tribal marlin
If you use it at the right moment (the moment you hit 0 energy during vendetta) it has a very high value
lusty gale
tribal marlin
BUT actually it also give 500versatilty which are going to be nerfed
lusty gale
The first one by the looks of it is ST fight and the second has shit tons of adds
tribal marlin
Minor effect also increase significantly the TB sustain window
lusty gale
Ye I like minor I was planning to run with Vision as major and minor
tribal marlin
It is possible that the actual number I see from Lucid Dream is coming from the busted 500 versa buff
I don't like vision it desync vanis and vendetta
lusty gale
But ye I can see that it can be good as u mentioned the scenario, just saying my general feeling I also haven't tried ptr what so ever so you are prolly right
warm harbor
yeah so I think the play will be pop vendetta on cooldown and try and notice times when it lines up with vanish
tribal marlin
I'd rather play with Condensate life force than Vision if they are close
lusty gale
Honestly I don't remember any other essences those two were sounded good so I took a note
tribal marlin
Condensate Life Force summon an azerite elemental
that deal damage, increase your haste by 10% for 30sec
and increase damage done by 5%
has 3mn cd tho
warm harbor
so Lucid is only really worth for the major
tribal marlin
you also randomly proc a 5% dmg buff on the target
no it's really good for its minor too, at least with the current number on Versa
might change as well with the 35% nerf
refundal of energy is around 100 energy / mn
warm harbor
fucking this is gonna take so much testing to figure out hahahaha
tribal marlin
ye I don't think we'll have suitable sims soon enough but they are working on it hard
tribal marlin
good news
warm harbor
yeet
lusty gale
Theory crafting is fun tho
Even tho Sims will be here soon u kinda want to know what farm for next week already
warm harbor
BotE is gonna be a must for m+ for sure
lusty gale
It's next week right?
meager nebula
8.2 yes
its relatively easy to pick out the bad essences for the good ones
so you will know which ones to target
tribal marlin
I think some essence will not be avaible till raid open
meager nebula
but making assumptions on which will be best will prove difficult
essences locked behind mythic mechagon/palace won't be available obviously
but there will be some available from day 1
tribal marlin
Lucid dream is one of the first you get
BotE requiert doing few pvp content
Life Force need to kill azshara irrc
tribal marlin
ok
warm harbor
does the dmg buff from purification protocol stack?
tribal marlin
no idea
warm harbor
I suppose even if you could line it up to stack its only 3 seconds of increased dmg
compact raven
so is 2-3 stacks of loyal to the end going to be viable
tribal marlin
is crit buff from MA only for Rogue ability ?
I'm doing testes actually, it seems like it doesn't affect Unbound Force crit chance
compact raven
it is a universal crit mod for 3 secs unbound adds to the crit boost but its a short window
warm harbor
does it add the crit to your character sheet during the window?
compact raven
no
tribal marlin
no
warm harbor
cause if so then it should affect every ability
if it doesn't then it most likely has a white-list of abilities
tribal marlin
maybe they just fixed MA to not work good with this essence
warm harbor
but dunno, im sure someone has a better idea than me
meager nebula
afaik ruthless precision for outlaw works the same, the crit% only affects the rogues abilities
but im not entirely sure on that one
tribal marlin
Dunno but I keep testing since then and MA definitly not increase Unboud Force crit chance
meager nebula
then i would imagine MA works the same as RP
and it only affects rogue abilities
but its not listed in the tooltip
i did check wowhead but it doesn't say anything specific
the spell data for RP lists everything it buffs
but MA has nothing
tribal marlin
Someone tell me earlier that the essence was busted when lined up with MA
so maybe they just fixed that
meager nebula
more than likely
inland gull
guys, echoing blades 2nd part stack?
inner citrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
red plaza
anybody get the Nothing Personal bug in live and know how to fix it? I dc'd one pull and all the pulls after that I was doing shit for damage. Found out that NP wasn't proccing. π¦
drifting cloud
reqeuip azerit and/or relogging
red plaza
gotcha ty!
vestal wren
If it's not fixed you need to respect the piece
royal lantern
@solemn meadow wrong channel, but yeha, fuck boreus
woven summit
Anyone using hidden blades for m+?
Or not worth it? Better off with poison bomb
I guess it's good only for reaping and if your group is doing big pulls
stuck knoll
Poison bomb is more valuable
woven summit
yeah and viable for more situations
guess it's good for big pulls and reaping but that's about it
shy axle
how does someone interprete the mythic+ page on your character on warcraftlogs? Whats the metric? Is it about your dmg, your dmg in the keyrange you did, your speed as a team? I don`t get it so far
distant lava
nobody cares about m+ logs, they are only interesting if you want a detail of what went down
stuck knoll
It's to do with key level and dp
shy axle
dp?
stuck knoll
Meant to type dps
modern forge
Anyone have an update on essences?
shy axle
ok. ye i read already that "no one cares yada yada", all cool. Was just interested in it, most people i run with rnd seem to log tough. Don`t the "best" not also log to make able to claim the leaderbord or is the leaderboard data another metric and has nothing to do with the logs?
faint harness
What leaderboard are you talking about? Afaik there's no relevant leaderboard connected to logs for m+.
lost horizon
tropic ocean
@shy axle wcl jsut ranks you by your key height
and if its intime or not
95% of these runs are not even logged
just ranked by lvl of key and if it was timed or not
crystal pilot
does NP change the amount of energy you generate to 40 or do you generate 40 + 60 (the base amount)?
real bay
both
rotund mural
Hey is it worth going 3 ss on tyrannicals sometimes, if the tank is my friend and knows my problem of chain pulling? xD
cloud iris
410 dead eye / 420 harlans / 415 plumage
Wich combination would you use for m+?
latent gazelle
rigid mango
Not really
rotund mural
i would go dead eye and harlans
rigid mango
Sin m+ sims are scuffed
latent gazelle
Hmm
rigid mango
I'd go dice plumage
Maybe dice spyglass during fort weeks
But plumage + vend value on bosses is substantial
latent gazelle
^^
cloud iris
Hmyea i wanna do that aswell but it feels like dead eye is just too good with EB/TTK
rigid mango
It's not really that good
Like, it's close to dice
It's just a bit more consistant
cloud iris
Yea not really comparing it to dice, was more aiming at dead eye compared to plumage
latent gazelle
Without reaping pads next M+ season. Would deadeye loose some value compared to plumage?
rotund mural
i wonder how much eb we gonna stack next season?
rotund mural
ohh nice ^^
plucky briar
can sin rogue use fist weapon in offhand?
rigid mango
odds are, we're gonna stack 2
no
need 2x daggers
To be able to muti
I doubt we're gonna go past 2 EB in general, 3 is on the verge of overkill now
rotund mural
wish they buff crimson tempest by a lot so we don't have to always rely on so many eb
rigid mango
crisp hollow
iβll personally just run 2/2/2 forever in M+ unless other things get buffed/nerfed
my raid setup is 2 DD, 1 SS, 1 treacherous,1 TTK, 1 NP right now, am I missing anything substantial?
distant lava
1xUC is the big bois club 
rigid mango
TTK isn't top tier unless it's on cepha
crisp hollow
oh wow I actually want to be stacking DD?
rigid mango
For raid yes?
crisp hollow
always thought it was one of those "good but there's better" traits
didn't realize!
rigid mango
Check wcl.
ripe nimbus
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
ripe nimbus
Could of also just looked at my traits sco were in the same damn guild Kappa
crisp hollow
keeping my alts in pho still tho cuz no way im paying for more than 1 server xfer
β€
rigid mango
Generally
3DD is the base to the best Patchwerk setups
And just a really good base for honestly, everything
Raid wise.
shy flicker
Hi guys i'm kind of new to assassination , i'm geared 405 and i simmed my character twice to check two azerite shoulders : one with Nothing personnal , bloodrite and gutreaper , the other one also with nothing personal and gutreaper but shrouded suffocation instead of bloodrite , and it surprised me that SS paired with sub simmed lower than the bloodrite one with master assassin , is it reliable ? thanks
crisp hollow
raidbots definitely reliable, but you have to sim for situations
on a pure single-target situation (patchwerk) its very likely a lot of stuff pulls ahead of SS
shy flicker
i simmed for patchwerk and hectic add cleave , it simmed lower twice
okay well thank you then i'll trust the sim π
crisp hollow
try patchwerk 2 and 3 target/dungeon slice/etc
to get an idea of what to use and when
crisp hollow
π
rigid mango
@crisp hollow I think you're mistaken
There aren't "a lot of things" that pull ahead of SS
on patchwerk
It's one of the best traits even on patchwerk
rigid mango
Has very niche situations
3SS KR blast
But even then, the value is arguable
With how M+ sin works, there's no place for it
crisp hollow
how should i be TB'ing in M+?
rigid mango
In situations where you know you'll be pumping envenoms
civic palm
Otherwise it's not worth the GCD over going mongo on your FoK key.
hollow stone
Fok em all to death
vast forum
they fixed it in october
solid nova
October 2018 it was fixed
solid nova
Well it is
frank shard
like when you apply a normal garotte with a shrouded one, it took away the shrouded buff
that got fixed in october?
frank shard
no not on the same target
i mean if you have garotte on 3 targets, and put a normal one on the 4th
it removed the shrouded form the other 3
solid nova
Then yes, 3rd of October 2018 it was fixed
frank shard
guess im just stupid then idk
solid nova
it's definitely fixed so
solemn meadow
anyone got uunat experience?
do you guys multidot the adds or just tunnel boss like a mongo
spice surge
Its gonna depend on your raids dps
If you dont kill adds too much before and you can comfortably get them down during your storms then you have no reason to dot them
silver talon
whats ass like for m+ and what az traits do i need
rigid mango
^_^
rigid mango
How about both?
fallen bay
is assa rogue harder than warlock in raids ?
rigid mango
fallen bay
like i¨m used to assa in M+ but overall rotation seems for me as destro main harder in raids
fallen bay
so skill level is really big jump to play well from lock to rogue ?
rigid mango
I'd say there's a skillhop at minmaxing assa, I don't know anything about lock though
solemn meadow
did anyone test out the essences on the ptr?
and tried out what "looks" to be good so I know what I should try to get next wednesday
for my uunat progress
I know we dont have sims
rav that doesnt help tho
in the pins it says "we dont have sims"
harsh sphinx
"Is there any confirmed information on XYZ:
-No we don't have any confirmed data on sims or theorycrafting for new gear, trait combinations or essences."
spice surge
They are tuning them constantly
So nobody can be arsed to test it anymore
Until it hits live
solemn meadow
yes but stuff like the vendetta proc shouldnt matter that much and it didnt seem that they changed it much? or atleast the major one
harsh sphinx
what was tested on the PTR has been changed and could be totally different on tuesday is the issue. nobody will know until then.
spice surge
They've gone back and forth on how NP interacts with it. And nobody likes to spend hours testing stuff to have it changed a few days later
For example the vendetta proccing one now proccs loaded dice whenever AR proccs for outlaw. Making it one of the best instead of one the worst
distant lava
that's guaranteed 2 roll
spice surge
Adrenaline rush
solemn meadow
short depot
maghar orc for real ?
fleet whale
Nightborne is secretly the best race for rogue
rigid mango
distant lava
my rogue was a nightborne once upon a time
rigid mango
marble hemlock
distant lava
idk I liked it for a while , I don't remember what made me switch
ripe nimbus
Probably that all transmog looks like absolute dog shit lol
oblique moon
how BROKEN is blood of the enemy gonna be for assass in m+
opal oyster
May i have a little help from someone ? https://pastebin.com/x8XZtWhx
I'm trying to figure it out the best gear for Raid and best one for M+
but i can't decide
sonic bridge
sim it??????
opal oyster
not enough combination π¦
civic palm
...
opal oyster
xD i will check WL, might enlight me
spice surge
I mean, you dont have to sim literally every piece
tiny arrow
You shouldn't care about any sims now anyways
solid nova
?
tiny arrow
You're gonna switch all your gear soon anyways
solid nova
Thats just wrong lol.
harsh sphinx
civic palm
throws his gear away
spice surge
Its not entirely wrong, but yeah
tiny arrow
If he's progressing something, sure sim
spice surge
tiny arrow
If you're just gonna chill in raid and m+ no point
spice surge
Here is a ST sim without logging in (ie just didnt pick the pieces that were obviously worse)
opal oyster
ohh, thank you very much, it's beem a couple of weeks since i got back to the game, and i'm a little confuse about traits, i'm using raidbots, hero damage, ravenholdt and bloodmallet, but i'm dumb xD
toxic burrow
Waycrest Manor
"InfestΒ no longer breaks players out of stealth."
No more having to LoS those stupid maggots. Yay!
toxic burrow
I can't control my gung-ho tanks when I'm rounding a corner with the rest of the party.
honest falcon
does the nothing personal dot trigger with the visions proc for the full 20 seconds?
carmine valve
Probably stupid question, but what happend with sin that ever since Legion it became the go-to progress spec. I remember prior to legion sin was always a spec that did well at the begining of an expansion but would later fall off since combat and sub would scale better with weapons
meager nebula
sin does not get affected by downtime as much as outlaw and sub do
as sin you will still have your poisons/bleeds ticking on the boss/target to deal damage while you are moving out for a mechanic
as outlaw/sub you do next to no damage during that
sin also currently has the highest single target output of the three specs, there are a few other reasons as well but those are the main ones
formal falcon
https://gyazo.com/33ed08289a1b1bbe23ccf57b0fcc387e based on that do i just go full on mastery gems/enchants (im transitioning from outlaw)
To clarify for M+ mostly, running 3 EB 3 SS
crisp steppe
π¦
rigid mango
Based on what @formal falcon ?
formal falcon
stats on the picture
vital haven
most likely
vital haven
into vers?
formal falcon
in this case I guess a boon would be a waste
was running boon/spyglass
got a dice in reserve
rigid mango
GCB is really bad for m+
formal falcon
aight, thanks for the input my dude
icy ember
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w7SXginthHvownEZn7jjqB is kimbul's bugged or something in game? it sims as 39dps lower than a 400harlans
meager nebula
no thats about right
kimbul's isn't that good for sin
on hero damage a 400 dice is about equal to a 415 claw
spice surge
Claw should be better on wednesday though
They're buffing those trinkets types of trinket by a fair bit
icy ember
buffing those trinkets? like... inadvertently or just straight up buffing them
spice surge
Developers' note: We made some under-the-hood changes to how item effects that deal damage, healing, and shielding scale with item level. The net effect of these changes is that almost all items like this in Battle for Azeroth are now moderately stronger. The difference is greater the higher the item level of the item. This includes items from Battle for Azeroth dungeons, raids, and PvP rewards.```what secondary stat though
icy ember
strength 
idk, im not sure what secondary stat they mean
so when do the sims get updated for 8.2? just curious here
echo cargo
What stat tho o_O
harsh sphinx
Socketed kimbuls on deck
olive tulip
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
uncut maple
Any up to date guides on Sin Azerite gearing for M+? Haven't played in a while
uncut maple
link?
rigid mango
rigid mango
He aint streaming atm, but he's the best sin m+ player
uncut maple
kk
sudden brook
@rigid mango
sudden brook
does you have even a resemblance of an idea of what assa with esssences are dealing in the proving grounds with equalized gear and all that
rigid mango
None, there's NO ONE doing the stuff for assa
We have no reliable NA source that can play on low ping to do that stuff afaik
Nearly all of the high tier assa's in here are EU peeps that cba with the high ping
sudden brook
hmmm
rigid mango
We also have no clear winners yet
Everything seems like it'll shake up the rotation etc one way or the other
it's just about numbers at this point
sudden brook
more curious how other classes end up in relations to outlaw specifically obviously
rigid mango
Assa looks bad
Like, not dps wise defo yet
But playstyle wise, it looks like very RNG based shit
sudden brook
because its hard to gauge averages on "how good is x class" when every youtube video is linking 30 seconds clip of classes going totally ape shit
like 70k burst
rigid mango
Yeah.
sudden brook
i just want to know averages
sudden brook
he doesnt seem like a tc guy
rigid mango
It sorta sucks, we're sorta all in the dark here and seeing how much shit's going on for you guys
I mean atm, I don't even know what we'er gonna use as a major
even less so minor
I've heard/seen no info on any numbers for assa so far, I could get the PTR and try to play on shite ping but it's horrid
sudden brook
i think me and lok ar ethe only ppl even attempting to find stuff out
for outlaw against obviously
rigid mango
Yah obv
rigid mango
I mean yeah
sudden brook
bleh
sudden brook
theres a lot of shit
sudden brook
yeah true
sudden brook
i just was hitting around 24-25 on dummies as outlaw, but that seems so low compared to how broken other classes seem to be
rigid mango
needing numbers
sudden brook
wanted to get more of an understanding of the other classes/specs
sudden brook
rofl yeah
rigid mango
Idk what I get from here tbh, but something similar