It's like 2nd or 3rd best melee probably
#assassination
stuck knoll
harsh sphinx
Just cut out the melee part 👌
royal lantern
yeha but if it is not #1 its basicly ussules! /s
distant lava
More importantly its 2nd or 3rd by a small margin
Cause prot pally is probably 2nd best tank, doesnt mean that its in a good spot
sonic bridge
@royal lantern no1 said that 😐
limber dew
anyone know if you can vanish coin shower on oppulance?
strange python
How much energy should I pool before using toxic blade if vendetta is on CD?
rigid mango
As much as needed
vapid scarab
as much as possible while still using TB on CD
distant lava
there was a guy in here name rogues can't solo coin shower
for a good reason
cause you can't
rigid mango
It's different for each person's haste and luck
vapid scarab
you can shadowstep it
coin shower is a projectile that falls from the ceiling, after the circle around you disappears there is about half a second for you to port away
rigid mango
You'll notice what energy you need to get 2 comfortably and 3 with luck @strange python just go hit a dummy or smth
distant lava
you have a log of that ?
rigid mango
Regardless, don't
It's too risky for a mediocre outcome
I'm pretty sure it's not doable 
strange python
Ok sure. Do you make sure to have 4-5 CP before using it? Also guessing when you have vendetta you just use it directly before TB and spend less time pooling beforehand?
New to sin sorry if questions are nooby lol
rigid mango
You want to be able to pump as much into it as possible
distant mist
The way I see it ifthe circle disappears and I do it to late I die
rigid mango
aim for 2 envenoms in ther window, 3 with some luck
vapid scarab
transcendence just after coin shower fades
vapid scarab
same ability in this circumstance
strange python
Doesn't shadowstep/transcendance/blink all work pmuch the same?
strange python
Idk about hook
vapid scarab
coin shower falls from the ceiling
strange python
I'm sceptical about hook working
vapid scarab
it's the same thing as first boss in TD upheaval
rigid mango
Judging by the fact that some of the best rogues I know said it wasn't possible
idk
Regardless it's not worth it
vapid scarab
it's not difficult to do once you know how
distant mist
It’s just timing
stuck knoll
Idk if it's the same cuz step doesn't work as a tp just a really fast dash
vapid scarab
that doesn't matter
coin shower is a projectile that falls from the ceiling
the damage is not immediate after the debuff expires
same thing as upheaval in TD
all that matters is that you have an ability to move quickly enough, usually that can only be done with ports
strange python
Was that a yes to pooling 4-5 CP before energy pooling TB then? Not sure if you can keep rupture up (if not, if its even worth keeping it up) the whole time if you do that. Talking pure ST
rigid mango
yes
You want to be as ready as possible to press the button to go ham
To get as much damage into that window as possible
I normally get 3-5 CP and then energy
strange python
Ok thanks.
vapid scarab
does internal bleeding count for venomous wounds on stuff you can actually proc it on?
vast forum
ye
strange python
can anyone reccomend me a good sin WA for tracking of your dots and general cd's?
distant lava
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
thanks 😃 i shouldve seen that ocming
distant lava
hey no problem dude 😉 tremendous effort on my part
zenith gust
is it normal when simming master assassin ST patchwerk 5 min to end up with almost no versa?
civic palm
yes
elfin plaza
its not a great stat for single target sin
zenith gust
ok, i was like... wtf!
peak saffron
does anyone have the shadowstep macro to shadow step to the Race Flag for Uu'nat progression? can't seem to get mine to work
polar cape
/cleartarget /tar Race Flag /cast [@target,exists]Shadowstep /targetlasttarget /startattack /cast [@focus,exists] Shadowstep
Each / is a line in the macro
balmy quest
/tar Race Flag
/cast [@target,exists]Shadowstep
/targetlasttarget
/startattack
/cast [@focus,exists] Shadowstep```Just reformatted yours
balmy quest
Does sprint increase your swim speed at all? I assume not but haven't really tried it
meager nebula
i don't believe so
since movement speed and swim speed are two separate categories
fringe phoenix
#showtooltip Shadowstep
/target Race Flag
/cast Shadowstep
can also target monk statue if you have a monk tank to step to instead of the flags.
lime path
@balmy quest it does not
balmy quest
thank you
lime path
What is it about poison bomb that makes it stronger than tempest
lime path
even on higher keys during fortified where things last long enough for multiple ticks?
rigid mango
If you want more aoe dmg, take HB
But several people have played with both and seen that PB still does more w 3 eb
lime path
hmm, I'm not doubting the math, PB just feels like it's not doing as much, but maybe I'm just not noticing the proc rate
rigid mango
feelycraft
rigid mango
thing is, your aoe is already there from EB
There's no reason to take CT
when it deals less damage than mongo FoKing
lime path
I'm new to rogue, what's EB stand for?
flint jetty
If ct procced energy it'd be nice lol
rigid mango
Then it'd be insanely broken
Idk how we've managed to bring that up 3 times in the last couple of days now
rigid mango
More like 2
lime path
aight
rigid mango
I'd recommend 2 minimum each week
flint jetty
Yeah 2 min right?
rigid mango
I mean
You can go less if you're confident in your groups pure aoe blast and you lack ST
But I'd not say it's ever worth it, pretty much
I never run with less than 2
lime path
I was gonna aim for 1 EB and stack Shrouded Suff for stronger openers on multi packs but if 2 EB is worth it, I'll try to find some pieces w/ that
rigid mango
I only ever run with 2 SS max
And that's when I go 2/2/2
Apart from KR, I never run more than 1
flint jetty
Would ss be more potent in lower non fort keys. Say <12
rigid mango
I'd argue worse
flint jetty
Since wont tick for full furatiuon?
rigid mango
Yep
flint jetty
duration
rigid mango
Potent for bosses for sure
But you'd be better off just stacking eb and smacking it into the wall
Actually not entirely sure what's the best for those scenarios
flint jetty
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
high ruin
is dice better than galecallers with perfect rng? just wondering why it always tops the logs
civic palm
3 2 1
meager nebula
is the quick version
high ruin
not a personal problem, just curious. The movement thing makes sense
pastel wasp
Daggers are a myth
tall pelican
how much haste is good for mythic +?
civic palm
~10%, less if you can.
strange python
What enchants on weapons if you run 3x DD 3x NP?
worldly iron
sim it
harsh sphinx
some combination of deadly/quick/masterful, sim to be sure
empty mirage
Have a quick question :
At the moment I am running 2 double dose and 1 ss with 1 nothin personal trait
what is the best trait selection Single target to BoD ?
Should I stack more ss or go with one more double dose ?
Thanks in advance
winter moss
might be a guide line for traits
but to get accurate answers you gotta go to https://raidbots.com
sim yourself
tropic ocean
@empty mirage it depends on the boss you are fighting, generally double dose is the better single target trait in longer encounters while ss is very good in short fights and multitarget fights
stable oxide
I would always use atleast 1 ss on: Champions, Grong, Jadefire, Conclave, Rastakan, Blockade and Jaina
Opulance im not sure cause I suck on that one :p
But I use 3xDD, 1xSS, 2xNP
tropic ocean
its not really worth to use ss on jaina or blockade
unless you can make your team to let you cleave else its a dps loss
stable oxide
It depends on your team. But I see that in my team sometimes the dps on the adds on blockade is not focussed enough
So I vanish, Garrote the boss, shadowstep to the add and garrote that one aswell
And on Jaina I like that vanish, garrote on Jaina + garrote on the wall
I have a 98% on conclave
And yeah I use SS for the raptors
perhaps my team doesn't focus them enough
which benefits me xD
polar tapir
Has there been any word on the Vendetta essence for next patch? or is it yet to be nerfed?
winter moss
SS on jaina isnt necessarily a dps lost since last phase cleave
tropic ocean
theres no cleave in last phase
winter moss
image + elemental
tropic ocean
theres no ele in last phase
winter moss
isnt it?
tropic ocean
and image depends on where it spawns
tropic ocean
idk how you play but wasting 2 gcds walking to image if its far is not worth it
winter moss
tropic ocean
this sounds like very weird strats
winter moss
image has around 1.4mil hp
easily goes down in cleave
and it disables mechanics that were fatal
tropic ocean
???????
winter moss
2nd icefall, 2nd ray
tropic ocean
theres no 2nd ray
winter moss
oh sorry
no i meant the ray from the image
but a mechanic decrease by 100% for a bit of cleave makes it worth imo
tiny arrow
ray from image fatal 🤔
tropic ocean
not sure since these gcds could be pumped into boss
and for rogue the cleaving is only worth is the raid doesnt kill stuff before dots tick out
winter moss
well at this time you dont have to worry about the damage to the boss since you make it to the check easily
tropic ocean
I guess that depends on the group
winter moss
yeah depends on setup but with 2 dh and 1outlaw 2 sin rogues it works quite nice to cleave it down
second intermission + p3 actually got nerfed to heroic
tropic ocean
well in heroic theres no invisible ninja heart of frosts 😄
winter moss
ask our druid who had a chat ban
ez wipe
what still tilts me is that cloak doesnt remove stacks
tropic ocean
cuz it was broken af
winter moss
give me my godmode back
night vale
What do you guys reckon is a good setup for siege this week?
I was thinking 3xEB would be rubbish cause We wanna limit aoe on most pack to avoid massive bolster.
2/2/2??
winter moss
i mean not that it would matter but no dmg taken is still better then some dmg taken
siege can be tricky but if you play around a bolstered spotter i wouldnt pay to much attention to aoe
2eb 1ss 3ttk
if you dont play the spotter 2/2/2 should be fine
very generalistic
night vale
Yeah, unfortunately we won’t be using the spotter as one of our friends doesn’t like it as he thinks it’s exploity
But I’ll go with 2/2/2 I think, thank you
winter moss
just make sure that your group focused on higher health targets like the commander
as they are not affected by the atillery but the mops around them are
winter moss
pad dps best dps
winter moss
tbf
tropic ocean
imo the big problem is
winter moss
there are not much good assas
tropic ocean
but when you look at logged 20+ keys u see
all dps are pretty equal
outlaw just carry utility
winter moss
outlaw carry burst dps
winter moss
+1
the only reason you picked 2 outlaw+monk in mdi was that the keys were set to 18 (or 19 idk)
winter moss
the just bursted down the packs
but the higher the key the more other classes close up
tropic ocean
but in higher keys i usually beat them or are on same lvl
lately only ones outdpsing me is hunter trollers
distant lava
yeah hunter aoe dps 
distant lava
Imagine rapid reload being a MM trait tho 
tropic ocean
80% beast cleave
winter moss
tropic ocean
😄
with new season assa will shit on outlaw again
especially when key lvls get even higher
stuck knoll
Probably
winter moss
i just wanna revive sub dream 
tropic ocean
they are both good already
outlaw is just limited in aoe dps
and assa is uncapped
oh 50mobs? for 3min
nice
😄
winter moss
true
stuck knoll
Number of mobs don't matter rn just time
distant lava
I mean the more limited thing about 50 mobs 3 mins is your tank
tropic ocean
I mean assa is somewhat limited
but as long as we dont have as much mobs that we need more room than 10yrds
we good
:p
tropic ocean
pretty equal should be
3 mobs is super good for assa
4-5 for 2min outlaw should be ahead since you cant garrote
4-5 mobs
and its not enough mobs to make fok blast
winter moss
just wanna see the ignorance of some people towards assa drop
tropic ocean
I guess the higher you get the better it gets
just majority of players has no clue anyways and is meta/mdi slave
ppl pugging 15 bringing 2 outlaw rogues
but dont know the skips or pull shit into boss soit literally wouldnt matter to bring them or not
winter moss
but it was on mdi
was the same with sub in uldir
if you played around the rogue
giga blast
notice 
faint harness
yea of course, but not having to re-stealth as outlaw and still deal massive dmg is quite good
winter moss
if you dont chain it into the boss whats the reason bringing outlaw
tropic ocean
not restealthing chaining is good for assa too
ppl think outlaw only got good due to reaping
yes and no
faint harness
if you run 3x FoK traits i guess
tropic ocean
but at the same time wits change came as well
faint harness
but if you run garrote traits, yoikers
winter moss
who on this earth runs 3eb3ss
tropic ocean
chaining for assa is good because you can remove your ramp up time
if its chained properly
chaining mobs that are about to die into new ones is
well bad
winter moss
if you can transition the energy flow from the one group to the next group
faint harness
I cant wait for outlaw to die in a fire tho
winter moss
playing both specs in both raid and m+
tropic ocean
its hard to compare
faint harness
ran FoK traits in one and tripple SS in one, needless to say, the tripple FoK performed better
tropic ocean
like wits is not good due to reaping only, just as fok isnt good due to reaping only
if outlaw had wits season 1 it would've been very good as well
faint harness
how big impact will wits nerf have tho
tropic ocean
less than everyone thinks
distant lava
I mean I can definetly see a sin player beating me as outlaw
winter moss
seliathan for sure
distant lava
and I consider myself a more than ok outlaw
faint harness
assa is just hated by the community
tropic ocean
nah
distant lava
no just the BF charge drain can really hurt your dps
faint harness
join a pug and you aint outlaw
tropic ocean
i pugged all my keys to 2,4k as assa so
yeah some ppl are stupid and will decline or cry
but they also cry about shadow priest
winter moss
i started respeccing when the put the pulltimer for the key in pugs
faint harness
yea those are the ppl i mean
winter moss
distant lava
it's not that they hate sin, it's that they think outlaw is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better, while it's not
tropic ocean
when u see nataleya outpumping outlaws @ 3,8k rio
winter moss
it does
distant lava
depends on traits
winter moss
well yeah
faint harness
winter moss
everything depends on traits
faint harness
yes
tropic ocean
with the new cos trinket and on equal gear/skill
its very hard for outlaw to keep up on pure st
unless he rolls really good
winter moss
if you go with 3eb in a st fight you wont even outblast a feral
tropic ocean
^ this is troll
faint harness
remind me, whats EB again? I havent played rogue since uldir
solid nova
Echoing blades
faint harness
ahh i just call it fok traits
winter moss
i like feral, but we were speaking of a sin outblasting a outlaw, ofcourse we go from optimal stats/traits
faint harness
feral is also put in the shadows by the community while actually not terible
winter moss
and if you go on pure st fight like mekka, with 3dd 2np 1tc
faint harness
just like ret paladin in m+
winter moss
you beat every law unless he rolls 5s back to back
tropic ocean
the st different of outlaw and assa isnt as far away from each other
the difference is that outlaw is rng dependant
and assa is not
faint harness
i havent been beaten by many outlaws on ST, they might suck tho who knows.
tropic ocean
so if you got good rolls you're fine if not you#re behind
winter moss
well for progression i tend to pick sin over otl everytime
tropic ocean
(which you can see on mekkatorque pretty good)
faint harness
i remember seeing this one outlaw rogue blast on uunat mythic
ST too, not just add dmg
RNG pirates
distant lava
dude if you get 5 at the right time
winter moss
which doesnt means hit
distant lava
it's gigga blast time
winter moss
imagine getting 5 without crit
distant lava
yeah but that's also cause shadowstep i pretty much needed for uwunat
tropic ocean
on what fight?
solid nova
#wow-general spec
faint harness
sry
faint harness
he is right
solid nova
If it wasnt for racing flag, surely you'd just ss a pet or have ranged move
faint harness
SS the locks
stuck knoll
Assa also has a lot of rng in its damage too tbh
tropic ocean
?
real bay
go subt SS bye rng and close enuf
stuck knoll
Like if you look at the actual variance it's also pretty
High not outlaw levels but up there
tropic ocean
I mean theres some rng yeah but i pull pretty consistent
sometimes a little more procs sometimes a little less
but overall pretty much in the same range
(-rng mechanics)
while on outlaw you have the same player doing 25k and doing 20k on the same encounter
marble hemlock
variance for assa is certainly pretty high, although not as random on a pull-to-pull basis
but ive had pulls on uunat where i was sitting on 38k dps after p1 finished, and others im barely hitting 26k
trinket procs during vendetta and crit-luck during tb+vend is pretty huge
stable oxide
Crit is the biggest rng as assassination
tropic ocean
it is for any class no?
distant lava
not really cause sin also gains extra ressources from it
stable oxide
I've had pulls where I got 4 cps on my mutilates a few times in a row
which means all my envenoms are within elaborate planning timer
without pooling energy
which is pretty big
winter moss
@marble hemlock just play with 40 crit on uwunaat
marble hemlock
if you get 4 envenoms into your opening TB with pot, and 2 diceprocs and stuff
then you go ham
stable oxide
^
winter moss
tue
tropic ocean
I mean
winter moss
but the variance is still not as high as otl
tropic ocean
assa rng is nowhere near outlaw rng
especially in st
you can have this
or this
stable oxide
Obviously
distant lava
no you can't
stuck knoll
What's this
distant lava
that's bullshit
stuck knoll
Like
winter moss
why would you post my personal logs 
stuck knoll
What
distant lava
you can't do pluls like this as outlaw
tropic ocean
assa is pretty consistent dps wise
distant lava
if you're good you vary from purple to orange sure
marble hemlock
tropic ocean
while outlaw goes from top 100 to green
marble hemlock
good p1 RNG
distant lava
not it doesn't
distant lava
you're actually delusiionnal lol
stuck knoll
I've said this so many times if you go from orange to green with buffs you're just playing badly
stable oxide
@marble hemlock what boss are we talking about?
distant lava
uwunat
stable oxide
ah
tropic ocean
@stuck knoll so you think that ppl that play in good guilds and do top 100 logs
suddenly become a worse player
?
or it might be buff-related?
stuck knoll
I'd say he fucked up
solid nova
Theres not a chance you're logging grey but playing well
stuck knoll
That's not buffs
tropic ocean
obviously not, I just screened the whole logs
winter moss
logging grey + playing good = disconnect
faint harness
just play in a world 1st guild and get rank 1s
distant lava
if you get fucked and play well you're low purples
tropic ocean
all im saying is, the difference is way higher than in assa
and u can see it from various top 100 logs
solid nova
I mean sin rng vs outlaw rng is a given as Outlaw has the highest variance in the game
But its not the difference between green/orange
winter moss
rtb rng doesnt affect you that hard
faint harness
maybe if you sit on 1 roll energy buffs
tropic ocean
no, but its the difference between orange logging every fight in 6 consecutive ids
marble hemlock
assa variance is pretty high these days thanks to low-rppm trinket like dice and MA being hit or miss
tropic ocean
between having a 100 log and a 90% log
faint harness
rank 1 logs without padding tho
distant lava
green is a fuckup, the others are just rng / kill time variation
tropic ocean
theres no pad in mekka
winter moss
well ma 100% with 3 secs still would be great
faint harness
didnt know it was mekka, my bad
winter moss
not overpowered but less rng
quasi pewter
There is almost no padding in any fight in bod tbh
tropic ocean
lol
solid nova
What
real bay
whole place padfest
winter moss
and we got a winner
sullen pagoda
XDDD
stable oxide
There is alot of padding in BoD xD
stuck knoll
Wait wait wait
sullen pagoda
i see i came just in time for pepega discussion
quasi pewter
Tell me where there is padding?
stable oxide
thats why SS is so good :P
stuck knoll
Did you link a mekka log
stable oxide
Champions
quasi pewter
Jaina maybe
sullen pagoda
are u trolling or
tropic ocean
lol
stable oxide
where you cleave the shit :P
tropic ocean
this is comedy
sullen pagoda
stormwall is basically how much damage will you do to adds
real bay
this man is delusional 
quasi pewter
Adds need to die no?
distant lava
he got us all to agree on something
sullen pagoda
?????????????????????????????
distant lava
maybe that was his plan
sullen pagoda
yikes
quasi pewter
Padding is not dps to adds wtf are you saying
winter moss
the boss needs to die, the adds can get kited around
tropic ocean
champions, pad, grong, pad, jadefire pad, opulence PAD PAD PAD, rastakhan mhhh pad, stormwall, add siren pad, jaina barrel ballista ele pad
stable oxide
I have the feeling that the definition of padding defers for alot of people
tropic ocean
padding is doing dps to improve your log while having no gain to defeating the encounter
quasi pewter
Kite adds on stormwall
stuck knoll
Did you really link mekka logs to talk about rng
tropic ocean
which is basically what you are doing on sin
tropic ocean
bcuz the adds will die by range dps anyway even if u st the boss
quasi pewter
How is grong pad
stable oxide
is it padding when shit needs to die?
tropic ocean
ofc it is
stable oxide
Vanishing to do 3 garrotes on grong adds woudn't be padding
quasi pewter
Why shouldnt it die by you though?
quasi pewter
So all ranges always pad?
winter moss
mostly yea
stable oxide
Padding would be doing aoe damage that is totally unnecessary
quasi pewter
Because they go on adds?
stable oxide
I would say on Champions we pad
faint harness
if you lower ur boss dmg by going out of your way to deal more dmg to adds that would die regardless thats pad
real bay
I played ss as I wasn't allowed to tunnel boss
warm drift
They dont have to move to adds
tropic ocean
I mean how do you compare range to melee
but doing dps to adds in stormwall is not pad?
as a melee?
wat
especially as sin
quasi pewter
No? Not always
tropic ocean
?????????????
stable oxide
It depends on your group
tropic ocean
do you let adds run to boss and melee kill them or am I missing smth
tropic ocean
which they should?
stable oxide
indeed
tropic ocean
In my group range dps stop ona dd so they dont die in the back
quasi pewter
Ur a dot class, you lose less boss dps than most ranges by dotting the adds
quasi pewter
And?
faint harness
I mean why not dot the add if its close to boss
tropic ocean
are you for real
stable oxide
Well i also shadowstep the adds to multidot them
tropic ocean
or are you just trolling?
quasi pewter
Yes
winter moss
he is trolling
quasi pewter
I am
winter moss
must be
tropic ocean
have u ever killed the encounter?
faint harness
stop padding 
quasi pewter
How is it padding to spend 0.5 secinds to rupture an add
quasi pewter
You lose almost nothing
tropic ocean
yes you do
faint harness
the boss has a huge hitbox tbf
quasi pewter
And ranges lose boss dps by swapping
tropic ocean
wat
quasi pewter
What do you lose?
stable oxide
The only thing that I would consider padding, is if WCL did count all the damage done on conclaive
tropic ocean
are you completely trolling
sin loses almost nothing dotting adds on stormwall
but ranges lose boss dps
?_?
faint harness
I feel like there needs to be an official definition of padding
stable oxide
^
tropic ocean
most of current range dps GAIN by dotting the adds
distant lava
do you realize some classes / specs gain more ST from cleaving and do more cleave dmg ?
warm drift
If you can multidot rupture for energy. Without loosing dps on maintarget. Is it pad? Or effective?
winter moss
the official definiton of padding is to push your dmg meters with no actual use to the encounter progression
wtf
real bay
no it's being smart
tropic ocean
@warm drift you lose dps to maintarget by dotting add
faint harness
you gain energy gen tho
quasi pewter
Same with most ranges though?
tropic ocean
its not a 2 or 3 target cleave fight
quasi pewter
Idk what ur saying
stable oxide
That depends on your group :p
faint harness
Like if you dont lose boss dps by dotting ads, whats the issue
quasi pewter
Yes so ranges can stop going on it too or what do you mean
quasi pewter
Whats the difference
warm drift
I dont know! Was a question! 😅
tropic ocean
@quasi pewter you don't understand the encounter or the specs so pls
marble hemlock
depends on the encounter then @quasi pewter
tropic ocean
no point in discussing if you don't understand the basics
faint harness
yea so if you lose effective dps by dotting adds, its pad. Problem solved moving on
stable oxide
You do lose damage on the boss by going to the adds on blockade, but is that a problem?
marble hemlock
theres encounters where you want to kill adds, but without being on the clock for it
tropic ocean
ele/lock/spriest/boomkin all gain by dotting adds
marble hemlock
then theres fight like uunat where killing adds too early is actually detrimental to the fight
sullen pagoda
LOL
tropic ocean
if you think dotting add on stormwall as sin rogue is st gain
im not sure whos garbage
stable oxide
Now now guys, lets all calm down :P
solid nova
@quasi pewter Dont go down that road
solid nova
Place nice or dont play at all
quasi pewter
Same as most ranges
winter moss
^what richard said
quasi pewter
Not for all
marble hemlock
only classes that have a fairly big gain are sp and ele
faint harness
why are you getting so upset tho
worldly iron
this chat
faint harness
imagine getting this riled up about this
solid nova
@worldly iron Not helpful
marble hemlock
and sp mostly gets it by proccing ToF
sullen pagoda
@marble hemlock destro and affli locks also get ST from dotting the add
tropic ocean
afflock, destro too
quasi pewter
Sp only gains from execute on adds
worldly iron
You're right, my bad
marble hemlock
sure, but its not nearly as impactful
and agony isnt much of a damage source in itself, as much as its just there to generate resources
stuck knoll
Ranges don't lose anything it's a gcd or 2
quasi pewter
I mean you actually no idea about classes aswell and ur trying to argue
tropic ocean
lol
quasi pewter
Same as assa
stuck knoll
But like saying it would be a huge loss for assa to ss to the add and rupture
sullen pagoda
@marble hemlock from what ive heard SP actually loses ST from dotting 1 target from what ive heard, but dont know personally
marble hemlock
the concern usually is with dots that deal a lot of damage while providing minimal prio-damage gain
real bay
who actually cares, loss likely not even noticeable
marble hemlock
with auspicious spirits, its always a gain to sw:p adds
stuck knoll
The hit box is huge
marble hemlock
most SPs just happen to also VT adds, which is not a prio-gain at all 😃
tropic ocean
@stuck knoll unless the add lives through the dot its a los
stable oxide
It all depends on your group really.... really early on when I was progressing on conclave, my raid had to low damage on the raptors aswell. Thats where I also go SS and subterfuge. I woudn't consider that padding
faint harness
padding is only when you deal useless dmg to adds and lose boss dmg
tropic ocean
this was the whole argument
marble hemlock
padding is doing something thats not helping killing the boss faster while literally "padding" the output
quasi pewter
You dont run to the back ofc lmao
marble hemlock
but yeah anyway, think the point has been made
tropic ocean
XD
marble hemlock
multidotting as assa is barely worth it, but if the adds need to die eventually then its usually worth doing if you dont have to run away from the main-target
tropic ocean
im just waiting fort the top assas to tell him hes wrong
and maybe then hell understand
quasi pewter
Im waiting
tropic ocean
one already told it 2 lines above urs
stable oxide
Well Seliathan is a big boy right :P?
shrewd pine
padding = doing more damage than me
stable oxide
He just gave you the answer
marble hemlock
haha theri
quasi pewter
Oh wait im one of them
marble hemlock
so everyones padding
jovial adder
🍿 I’m waiting for people to start linking logs
stable oxide
hold my beer
winter moss
@shrewd pine aint no trinket boosting your dmg
marble hemlock
id link my pad-logs but im never padding 
tropic ocean
@quasi pewter not a big boy in arguing though
distant lava
going SS on fight that don't need cleave is padding
winter moss
@marble hemlock i feel ya
quasi pewter
Ok
distant lava
for example
solid nova
@stable oxide 10/10 guild name
stuck knoll
Can we just have an end to it
stable oxide
Thanks :P
distant lava
you'll be that muted guys soon aus
solid nova
winter moss
can we all settle for padding is to do what the raidleader doesnt call
distant lava
jovial adder
Lol @stable oxide you stay ready
distant lava
@winter moss aye sir I can get behind that
stable oxide
@jovial adder ? :P
winter moss
tropic ocean
muted for what? I'm not the person straight up insulting ppl in this discord, theres other candidates 
quasi pewter
Its not an insult if its true
tropic ocean
marble hemlock
playing SS on a fight with adds that dont have to die quickly is literally a can of pringles
stable oxide
which bosses are those?
marble hemlock
marble hemlock
well
solid nova
You know when you go round and round in circles for ages but end up getting nowhere? Yeah thats this.
jovial adder
@tropic ocean need to check your logs for pad
marble hemlock
champion, grong, conclave, opulence
stable oxide
Champions I agree
tropic ocean
and theres nothing wrong with it
marble hemlock
even rasta
distant lava
@marble hemlock could argue rastakan
marble hemlock
yeah
stable oxide
Why can I not use vanish on multidot the adds that spawn?
marble hemlock
😄
distant lava
cause only dude that needs to die is the big troll
stable oxide
on grong
tropic ocean
@stable oxide you can and it will be good dmg
marble hemlock
because i doubt any guild has trouble killing the add too slowly
tropic ocean
the question you need to ask yourself, will ithelp killing the boss
marble hemlock
and theres just no point for you to multidot on adds+boss if you could play other traits that give you more damage on the boss itself
distant lava
since most guilds keep 1 add alive
marble hemlock
thats why id consider ss padding on grong
distant lava
cleave is useless
tropic ocean
seliathan is like legit the sin priest
marble hemlock
no
winter moss
yes
marble hemlock
praise assa
distant lava
sin priest 
tropic ocean
its like theres 98% non assas in the world
and hes on the monk mission to convert them
winter moss
playing 3 dd on grong
tropic ocean
❤
marble hemlock
time to outpad outlaw
winter moss
rest is bonkers
cobalt pelican
in that case do you just straight up never go to the ads or leave early or
solid nova
@distant lava ???
cobalt pelican
cause the ads dying faster IS more boss damage for like 80% of specs
distant lava
@marble hemlock we just established it's not padding if it's your job to kill the things
so ofc you would outpad outlaws
tropic ocean
When I find myself in times of trouble, Daddy Seli comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be ~
real bay
if the things need to die you kill
stable oxide
So the adds on grong need to die. If i vanish and garrote rupture all of those adds, they die faster
marble hemlock
the matter is more about whether the raid needs your help to kill them
which is rarely the case
stable oxide
which means the rest of the team can go on the boss earlier right?
lethal heart
thing about top grong logs is
tropic ocean
or maybe to phrase it differently
lethal heart
your raid allows you to get max avlue out of your cleave
stable oxide
Well now we are mixing the definition again
tropic ocean
theres classes that are better for cleaving the adds
tropic ocean
without having to sacrifice st
lethal heart
to get more overall
tropic ocean
like for sin you will need to take ss to do significant dps to adds and you also need to use vanish for it
which you could use in dd to pump more into boss
so you gain dmg to adds, but lose dps to boss
which is untrue for other specs/classes
tropic ocean
no, vanish for tb vendetta obviously
stable oxide
ah
tropic ocean
with ss and subter you don't get the full vanish power into grong, sicne you will do 2 garrotes on the adds
you gain overall, but lose on boss
compared to dd np ma
stable oxide
you do 3
stable oxide
yes
tropic ocean
yes
so you loose buffed garrote uptime on grong
(which already is less dps than full dd would be on st)
cobalt pelican
like, you personally will gain boss damage and lose overall
but unless your raid is entirely saving the ads for solely those that benefit f rom them being alive on no time constraint
other people lose boss damage for you to gain it
your own damage is entirely irrelevant if you're not going for logs, really
sullen pagoda
im playing echoin blades next opulence clear so my team can focus on boss damage
tropic ocean
its not worth 😛
tropic ocean
I always wanted to play eb ss on opulence but the difference is not that big as I thought
to 3 dd np and just pump when stacks are high
sullen pagoda
just play outlaw 
tropic ocean
oh no i dont got the emote
cobalt pelican
eb is only worth it if you get like 4 ad waves
or your guild let you have the entire ad wave
tropic ocean
yeah but even then
quasi pewter
Doesnt even give allstars, play outlaw+ red gem so ur guild likes you
tropic ocean
not that much of a difference
faint harness
chasing logs in 2k19
cobalt pelican
it's pretty much the only thing that keeps reclears tolerable
stable oxide
Yup...
My guild chose not to do CoS because we don't have the setup
so we are reclearing BoD
Every week
Good thing is that everyone gets the mount :p
bronze kelp
^^
sullen pagoda
just reclearing for the sake of reclearing would be mindblowingly boring @faint harness
stable oxide
But yeah the only thing I can do now is going for logs
sullen pagoda
id rather quit raiding than raid like that
stable oxide
My guild leader told me I was not allowed to use Lurkers on Jaina and Blockade
faint harness
sullen pagoda
???
faint harness
tell ur raidleader to gtfo
sullen pagoda
i can understand jaina but stormwall?????????????????
bronze kelp
i would rather do island expeditions, than reclearing content without any reward
knotty falcon
Sounds like a dumb raid leader
sullen pagoda
stormwall is least hps needed fight ever created
like when i had to heal on my pala, and tank missed ire of deep it was best moment of the raid for me
i finally had something to heal
stable oxide
Well i think it was more about the fact that "if everyone would use lurkers, its gonna be a problem"
so now no one will
faint harness
Chasing logs on prog in 2k19 then*
knotty falcon
Do you run 13 melees?
faint harness
i agree that going for logs on farm is the only thing you can do
bronze kelp
better logs for healers 😉
knotty falcon
So that everyone would use lurkers?
sullen pagoda
it sounds like your raidleader does too much feelycraft @stable oxide
knotty falcon
^
stable oxide
I should screenshot this xD
knotty falcon
It does barely no damage
bronze kelp
nice one 😉
sullen pagoda
like if anything you can remove lurkers buff at 20s since ur vendetta is done and almost all the dmg taken is in the last 10s
stable oxide
But now I need to use my 400 ilvl plumage instead of Lurkers :'(
faint harness
dood its a dps loss to click it
bronze kelp
ouh that hurts ^^
sullen pagoda
nah even at 20s lurkers is way too good
faint harness
let the healers have their fun
cobalt pelican
just tell him you'll use crimson vial
faint harness
^
stable oxide
I did
faint harness
you can also just work around the last %
bronze kelp
crimson outheals lurkers easy, just tell him
stable oxide
I never got below 50% health
cobalt pelican
first aid mid fight
jovial adder
Lol
real bay
if your not dying why ever remove lurkers buff
faint harness
^
bronze kelp
and report back from bench, what he answered XD
sullen pagoda
@stable oxide are u using the waiting for stacks to drop before going last phase jaina?
stable oxide
yes
sullen pagoda
if you are your RL is being petty and not really thinking
jovial adder
Lol^ I feel the pain
stable oxide
Thank you guys
sullen pagoda
cuz when stacks drop dmg taken p3 is also close to none
faint harness
I wouldnt attack ur RL tho, put it up in a calm and intelligent fashion
sullen pagoda
i honestly doubt you will have any chances of reasoning with him @stable oxide
stable oxide
Because im really bad
jovial adder
Lol just use it anyway 👿
stable oxide
So I used a vantus rone on grong xD
and the whole raid was like....
wtf
who the fuck was that
sullen pagoda
RLs like that are usually RLs who don't really understand fights
like that dropping a healer sometimes means easier fight
nah fam just add more healers
real bay
not blasting everything on farm 
faint harness
Ahh i love the good ole "this is how we've always done it" when boss has been nerfed 10 times and ur on farm killing it the 10th time
sullen pagoda
I've seen a post on competitivewow about mekka and a guy answers "drop your egos and add 6th healer"
like
sullen pagoda
adding more healers means longer p2 means more robots means more dmg taken
nah just add healers
jovial adder
Does anyone else here have to 5 heal jaina?
stable oxide
I don't even know xD
sullen pagoda
wtf
stable oxide
let me check
faint harness
we tried to blast conclave yday 
stable oxide
Yes
faint harness
didnt work
stable oxide
my guild 5 heals it
jovial adder
I’m not even trolling lol my guild has downs
faint harness
you can push first conclave boss in 20 seconds or somethign and dodge a bunch of abilities
real bay
adding more dps doesn't help if the dps is bad
jovial adder
Thank god im not the only one
stable oxide
oh no nvm the last one was 4healed
jovial adder
😵
night vale
@stable oxide we are on the same realm, what guild are you in?
faint harness
i feel like this is every RL until you reach a certain rank level.
stable oxide
Grey logs
night vale
oh shit xD
stable oxide
Funny name right :p
stable oxide
oof
night vale
yeah i heard of them... im stuck only raiding 2 days a week atm tho
me and my friends left our CE 2 day a week guild to start our own for 8.2, on twisting nether
faint harness
starting your own guild is always.. difficult
night vale
yeah i mean, it will hopefully be easier cause its like 15 raiders from our old guild all moved accross... its really just our own guild minus 5 people :p
night vale
i was officer, like 3/5 officers have left
bascially our feedback was being over-ruled by the GM cause its his guild... which is fine, but we thought we had good ideas for next tier. and decided that it wasnt going to work so set up our own thing
worldly iron
I feel like this should probably be taken in #wow-general
night vale
yeah my bad
stable oxide
It's to silent in here...
faint harness
yea same
stable oxide
Multidotting the balista's is not padding
crisp hollow
does sin rip aggro to a similar degree as outlaw or is it better for not getting clapped due to dot damage?
faint harness
tricks of the trade should help
crisp hollow
feels like even on non-skittish weeks I rip packs off the tank whenever tricks is off CD
faint harness
thats just not a warrior tank*
crisp hollow
yeah i feel like him being brewmaster has something to do with it
stable oxide
What are you doing to those adds :P?
crisp hollow
its mostly noticeable on reaping
crisp hollow
yeah, luckily
stable oxide
I use 3xSS,2xEB,1xTTK. When I see i'm close to over agro a mob I just switch to another
crisp hollow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7HtMd4TzAgqHNXSYBk5uTc
this is my entire sin setup, I have no offpieces for the spec haha
unless I reroll my outlaw pieces
faint harness
are you simming for raid or m+
crisp hollow
thats patchwerk so raid pretty much
stable oxide
Is that a double dose for M+?