assassination

[spice surge]

na

[celest mirage]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[muted jacinth]

I ran 3 ss 1 np 1 twist 1 echos for our cabal kill

[silent imp]

Hey, new to the group but been playing Assassin for a couple of years. Can anyone please answer me this......I use the Hekili addon but 'Evasion' 'Feint' and 'Kidney Shot' do not appear in the rotation. I've looked on the web but can't seem to find an explanation 😦 Any ideas? Feel free to PM me if it's easier. Thanks fellow Rogues!

[rigid mango]

Because they shouldn't be used in the rotation?

I don't know, they're not standard rotation abilities

[stuck knoll]

They're defensives and your stun

[rigid mango]

Also use herorotation, it's far better

afaik

[silent imp]

Yeah I get that 😦 Kidney shot can be really helpful at times but I find myself forgetting about evasion and feint

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[silent imp]

Thanks Zine, I'll have a look at that

[rigid mango]

because it's not standard abilities that you use on cd

They're situational defensives

[silent imp]

I know but there is an option in Hekili to show defensives I just can't seem to get it to work for me

[hollow stone]

There are waaaaay too many "if x then evasion" situations to have in any sort of guide

Just dont forget you have it. Idk what else to say

[cobalt pelican]

what buttons do you press when you're dying

[rancid bobcat]

Vanish

[plain plover]

Hello! I am embarrassed to ask this... but why am I not getting empowered garrotes on boss targets anymore?

[muted jacinth]

using master assassin?

[rancid bobcat]

What makes you think they are not empowered

[hollow stone]

Do you still have ss trait(s)?

[plain plover]

yeah i stack 3 ss

using subterfuge

[muted jacinth]

what's your garrote ticking for

[cobalt pelican]

if you're sure nothing is wrong and the damage is confirmedf lower you're probably trait bugged

if you're just guessing why it's not empowered then uhh

[rancid bobcat]

Do you not receive 3 CP? Does it go on cooldown when subterfuge is up?

[hollow stone]

The only remaining answer is that youre overwriting your emp garrs with a normal one or your az is bugged

[plain plover]

Thanks for the help gang. Take it easy

[cobalt pelican]

interesting

[rancid bobcat]

Is he already gone

Yup

[cobalt pelican]

i'll just conclude this lead to an embarrassing realization and thus death

[rigid mango]

[hollow stone]

Dang. They like, left left. Not even in the discord anymore

I think you right @cobalt pelican

[strange python]

Does cloak stop torment damage on uu'nat

[spice surge]

Yes, if its on you you take no damage while cloak is up

[rotund pivot]

Is it preferred to use crimson tempest in most mythic + instances?

[spice surge]

No

[civic palm]

It's preferred to do literally the opposite.

[royal lantern]

crimson tempest is not good since we got echoing blades

poison bomb is the too-go talent for everything right now

[rotund pivot]

Ok

[knotty falcon]

@glacial vault

Hey

Can you teach me

[rigid mango]

[glacial vault]

sure for a small fee

[knotty falcon]

I wanna learn how to parse 99 everywhere

Just like you

[glacial vault]

oh that cant be taught

[rigid mango]

not evne 100

[glacial vault]

sorry your shit out of luck

[knotty falcon]

Damn

That is unlucky

[upbeat hazel]

how much do i rupture in m+ packs?

[civic palm]

Enough to continue building with Fan of Knives.

[rigid mango]

after initial 3 garrotes

2 more to get inf energy

[upbeat hazel]

so opener from stealth is garroting everything and then fan to build cp, garrote a couple guys and then spam fan?

do i reapply bleeds?

[civic palm]

Ruptures, not Garrotes are redone.

[rigid mango]

Yeah, only ruptures

Garrotes aren't worth it if not empowered

[upbeat hazel]

ah

[civic palm]

Energy cost is higher, duration is lower, damage is the same.

[upbeat hazel]

and for max dps i dont envenom at how many targets?

or should i do it for ep

[rigid mango]

After 4 targets

so 5+ you mongo fok

[upbeat hazel]

thank you 😃

[chilly terrace]

Hey guys, I’ve been using 3x SS and 3x EB for m+ , it’s great on aoe but seems to fall short on single target. Does anyone have a set up that is good for both (Azerite trait wise)

[rigid mango]

Going 2-3 eb and getting ttk's too

What you're going is like the "pad build"

so to speak

[night vale]

Well I mean, SS is good for single target and aoe, just need to be able to reliably get restealths between packs, a few people pushing high keys chain pull a lot so the value of SS is lower so they run a couple of TTK to help with prio dmg

[rigid mango]

Yeah, SS is the best ST trait for m+

The only way you can get more ST is cutting back an EB

and go 1-2 ttk

I normally run 3 eb/ttk 2 eb/ttk 1 ss

[chilly terrace]

I’ll give your build a go zine, thank you! With that build what sort of stats weights are you running?

[rigid mango]

Crit > mastery > vers and then no haste

Think about 5% haste atm?

[chilly terrace]

Holy hell! My haste is like 21% I guess I’ll be dropping that 😂

[rigid mango]

Yeah

haste is v good for st

but since on every pack more or less you get 5 bleeds out aka inf energy reg

haste is worth 0

[chilly terrace]

What sort of dps do you finish boss fights at with that build ?

[rigid mango]

So, I just take 1 weap ench and as many op traits as possible to make up for st

uhh, I don't know exactly

crits matter a lot

21-24k

Is what I should be doing, anything

anything under 20k is

[chilly terrace]

Yeah currently I finish up around 20k with my set up and it feelsbadman

[rigid mango]

In the end boss is so little time

[chilly terrace]

Does the 5% haste take abit to get used to?

[rigid mango]

Yeah

It's v slow

And feels clunky

But in the end it's worth it

Even on tyr weeks you normally spend equal if not more time on trash

[chilly terrace]

Thanks for the help lads I really appreciate it!

[rigid mango]

np and gl 😄

[rigid mango]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[brittle cloud]

Yo guys, outside of the opener (st) if envenom and elaborate planning buffs are up and I have 4-5cb but low energy should I:
a) enven just before the end of EP and clip enven buff
b) or enven just before enven buff drops?
c) or something else?

[vast forum]

either a) or c) pool for a while regardless of env buff

unless there's a TB coming up or a bleed needs to be reapplied, ideally, you want to pool til 169 energy (~150 in reality to prevent accidental overcap)

[vapid scarab]

does honor among thieves (pvp talent) give us an extra cp with our own crits as well, or only allies?

[spice surge]

only allies

[vapid scarab]

seems like we have meh honor talents for pve then. atm im using creeping venom and flying daggers, creeping venom does almost nothing and i don't even know what to use for the third one, I guess DFA?

[brittle cloud]

@vast forum thanks!

[cunning urchin]

is master poisoner better with the mastery trinket from CoS?

[rigid mango]

No.

It's still bas

Bad*

[civic palm]

I mean it's IN the Top 10 combos > _>"

Still bad.

Twice even!!

[long bear]

guys does anyone know a good addon for tracking your garotte etc?

like a timer

[steep obsidian]

weak auras?

[long bear]

i have weak auras

do i need to activate it?

cant remember

[vapid scarab]

you need to either import some from wago.io or make your own

type /wa

[hot copper]

Quick question - WHY do you use Toxic Blade in your Master Assassin window after Vanish?

Doesn't that take away DPS from abilities like Envenom and Mutilate?

Or does the Nature damage boost outweigh it?

[worn violet]

TB hits hard, and you can crit it?

[hot copper]

I didn't actually realise how hard TB hit

Holy shit I'm stupid

[flint jetty]

Personally I don't

I'd rather get in either 2 envenoms or 2 mutilates, so I build cp to 4/5>vendetta>tb>vanish>env>muti

iirc both are viable

[distant lava]

the one you named is more high rolly

being outlaw main you know the one I do

[flint jetty]

Yeah, relying on rng a little bit but has higher peaks

And the other one being a bit more consistent

[hoary epoch]

how do you guys sim your toon? because I have 3 shrouded suffocation trait but it says its not my best trait. but I see in wowlogs everyone is using Shrouded suffocation.

[distant lava]

it's a good padding trait but for ST dmg it's not the best (and you sim for ST)

[hoary epoch]

patchwerk?

[distant lava]

a good reflection of sim -> wcl would be mekka logs

yeah, SS is really fucking good when you add more targets ( champions with the adds even tho the dmg isn't needed, JFM , rastakan etc...)

[hoary epoch]

ic ic its just for padding?

[harsh sphinx]

in 1:00-2:00 minute fights shrouded is very strong, especially with multiple targets ie champs / jadefire

[glacial jasper]

!essences. 😦

[rose aurora]

been runnin 3x ss and my dmg is just really low on the overall side of things.... like i feel like i pop off large on smaller trash packs, prio targets go down really fast, and my boss dmg isnt bad either... help? D: Like i feel like im makin plays and doing well and then at the end the grp is like "Shit man your dmg is low" and then im not getting invited for the second run.

[distant lava]

are you playing with EB traits ?

[rose aurora]

No

[distant lava]

then that's why you are low on overall

[rose aurora]

I have 3x ss 2x ttk and 1x np

[distant lava]

with those traits you have no aoe , that's why you are low

[rose aurora]

ill keep an eye out for that trait...

thank you lol

[distant lava]

tbh If you don't have at least 1 or 2 I wouldn't run sin in m+

[rose aurora]

D: aw shit aw fuck.

would it be worth dropping 1 or 2 ss for an eb?

[rotund mural]

i wish i had 3 ss traits for some raid fights... but soo unlucky, just keep getting dd and np azerite armors...

[rose aurora]

or should i try to keep the 3?

[distant lava]

EB is def more important than SS, seli for example who is a 3.9k sin player plays 3xEB 2xttk and 1xSS

since people chainpull a lot now SS is definetly not the best trait anymore

[rotund mural]

i have same as him, except 1ttk and 1 blightborne infusion xD

[rose aurora]

yeah ive noticed if people dont let me restealth before a pack i have terrible dmg.... well shit, thank you for that! gonna go completely rework my gear now

[quasi pewter]

Chainpulling is neccessary in most high keys and also beneficial to assa, so yea stacking ss is usually not the go to anymore

[distant lava]

yeah if people don' t let you restealth it's even worse with your traits, try to tell them you need to restealth before the next pack

[quasi pewter]

It slows you down a huge amount for low benefit

And the benefit is only to your own dps if you have 3 ss traits, so you should propably let tanks chainpull

[bleak spoke]

If you have a 1ss setup with some combo of eb and ttk, it’s actually beneficial for you to have the tank chain

[zealous dew]

@lone junco still playing the game ?

[flint jetty]

Wasn't he enjoying the glimmerous life lol

[leaden garden]

For next raid tier and m+ season, would it be better to play asa or outlaw? If one were to play one specc (ofc different sets of gear)

[distant lava]

🔮

with the removal of reaping and wits nerf we are GUESSING sin will be better

but since stuff is still being tuned on the ptr no way to know yet

[knotty falcon]

Quick question, when would you play master assassin over subterfuge?

[flint stump]

On single Target without any SS traits

[charred lantern]

With 2xTtK - 2xSS - 2xEB do we still go Crit>Mastery>else like its 3xEB or does haste gain value when we bring in the second SS?

[marble hemlock]

still crit>mastery=vers>haste

[charred lantern]

alright thank you

[rocky ruin]

Im currently at 35%crit and 35% mast and 2 OP Traits and still energy reg is kinda bs

its really hard to take a liking to it

[rigid mango]

You're not supposed to like it

I don't think anyone likes it, it's just the best

[lone junco]

@zealous dew had a hard swap to hpal for the past few raids.

but we are on break until new content.

[zealous dew]

😃

[lone junco]

which is good. I have to study for a professional test.

afk another week 👋

[zealous dew]

have fun, good to see you

[steep obsidian]

how long ago did they change it so that mobs in instances dont whack the nearest person when they are rooted in place?

its probably been years right

i never really thought aout it but it was most definitely a thing

[vapid scarab]

@steep obsidian they will still cast abilities on the nearest target tho

See shield guys in atal

[steep obsidian]

that is probably when the agro target it ouf or the range of the spell yeah?

[vapid scarab]

If they get rooted while tank is kiting melee will get bopped by that

[steep obsidian]

i just remember gettting mad at mages when theyd forst nova and id get owned

and i don tthink it was THAT long ago

[vapid scarab]

Yeah that still happens sometimes

[covert token]

Any idea from people on the PTR which essences are going to be best for Assassin?

[steep obsidian]

i think the vendetta proc one looked decent but its too early to tell im sure there will be some sims and guides when tuning is done

[leaden garden]

Is it correct to assume that Outlaw is more RNG than assa in terms of single target dmg?

[night vale]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T23_Raid.html

Yes, outlaw has the highest variance in single target damage across any spec at the moment

[quiet abyss]

!zerite

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[leaden garden]

with 2 EB traits, do I FoK vs 2 targets? 3?

[wary ice]

w/ 1 eb u fok 2 targets

[rigid mango]

To be efficient with cp not exactly

Muti is better at gaining cp even at 2 target, atleast consistantly

So you muti at 1-2 cp, fok at 3 and finish at 4+

@leaden garden @wary ice

If you want maximised cp efficiency that is

[leaden garden]

Thanks @rigid mango !

[wary ice]

ty4ping

is that true if im in a 2target scenario where damage is important; ie equal priority?

Such as before 3rd boss underrot

[rigid mango]

I mean you can just swap which target you finish on

Technically just fok'ing does a slight bit more damage but not tried the numbers with high ttk numbers either

and honeslty I'm assuming most people are playing with about 2ttk

in the end it's not very prominant apart from longer 2 target scenarios like 2nd boss FH

[distant lava]

@rigid mango what do you think about going 2 passive trinkets for m+ ?

[rigid mango]

That's entirely fine

I'm assuming dice + spyglass or something similar

[distant lava]

yeah

[rigid mango]

Just that having plumage/lurkers is normally better than the 2nd one

[distant lava]

plumage still better than deadeye ?

[rigid mango]

Depends on the ilvl diff etc

I think deadeye + lurkers/plumage is BiS combo atm

[distant lava]

I would be going for 3ss 3eb cause I don't really have good 3 eb ttk ss pieces

[rigid mango]

Then plumage is even better

[distant lava]

I think I'm always picking the dice cause 400 socket

[rigid mango]

Compared to vanilla 400 on the rest?

Dice and spyglass are near same, just that I feel that spyglass is slightly more consistant

[distant lava]

405 deadeye 400 plumage

[rigid mango]

Then probably dice + plumage

[distant lava]

I have 425 trinket from uunat

but I think it's very suck

[rigid mango]

Oh zucc one?

It's garbage.

I've got it socketed at 415

thought i got lurkers

[distant lava]

triple HmC

[rigid mango]

dw as long as shit's stacked it decent

They're all v similar in value tbh

Dice is probably same if not maybe a tiny bit better than spyglass during tyr

And on use trinkets are normally a bit better for tyr since boss dmg and all

[distant lava]

I think I'm going exsang

[rigid mango]

Exsang 🤢

I mean if you prefer it and are running 3ss it might be better

exsang becomes better with gcb tho, and gcb is garbage in m+

[distant lava]

my stacks don't look that bad

I was expecting worse

[rigid mango]

Stacks?

[distant lava]

stats

[rigid mango]

ah

[distant lava]

typing

[rigid mango]

[distant lava]

@rigid mango I straight up jumped in an 18

ready to troll this key

[vestal wren]

good luck

[rigid mango]

what key?

just press fok

[distant lava]

boralus

not the wisest choice with 3 ss

[rigid mango]

[distant lava]

tbh if we don't time it probably won't be because of my dps

[rigid mango]

^

3 ss is good for boss dmg anyways

[rotund pivot]

Which 415 Azerite piece from vendor has most good outcomes

[lyric sail]

I’d say chest? Few good options and helmet/shoulders come off the first two bosses in BoD and are really solid

[young socket]

cephalohide is great

[rigid mango]

So is spymasters

For raid atleast

You can a pretty solid set from just raid, for raid

[quasi pewter]

Depends on how far ur progressed in raid and which specs you play etc

[rigid mango]

Same for m+

Although cepha and goraks are neat

[civic palm]

Yeah my 0 effort M+ set is pretty decent 👌

[quasi pewter]

If you cant kill mekka m then u need to get a chest for sure

[raw oasis]

New to rogue, searched around, guide and pins don't mention what poison build and bleed builds are but it reference them often, fun. Is bleed build exang and poisin is toxic blade?

[spice surge]

Yes, they used to be different but now they're not except for those talents

[raw oasis]

K ty

[remote saffron]

is Scent of Blood any good? my azerite's not great and sims keep recommending it

[raw oasis]

Both talents are single target oriented, correct?

[lost horizon]

@raw oasis yes

[rotund pivot]

Alright thx. My guilds 5/9 mythic so I’ll just check what drops and traits

[lost horizon]

@remote saffron not really unfortunately, but might be the best option for you if it's simming higher

[remote saffron]

that's what i thought, it didn't seem very strong and it's not recommended for anything anywhere

hope i get better azerite soon, thanks

[lost horizon]

Just curious what's it simming higher than?

[remote saffron]

for Dungeon Slice: TTK and Incite the Pack

[lost horizon]

Ah, yeah simming AoE traits is tough for sin

Ttk for example provides priority target dmg which doesn't exactly translate for sims

[civic palm]

It doesn't really translate at all.

Even EB isn't simmed correctly due to the target variety and number.

[lost horizon]

🤷 unfortunately you're SoL for that, no easy answer on traits

Depends heavily on instance affixes and even how your tank pulls

[remote saffron]

should I take the other two then? as it stands i have 2 EB 1 SS 2 SoB 1 unstable catalyst

or just go by feel

[civic palm]

What were your other choices?

[civic palm]

2xEB | 1xSS is a strong start.

shoulder should be

TtK SS OP

chest should be

TtK SS

helm is...

fuuuuucked

SS TC OP might win there

No EB is shit though

[remote saffron]

in my runs (10-12) i do decent on aoe but my boss damage is not where it should be i feel

[distant lava]

@rigid mango scuff fest

def not my fault tho

I have the most deaths

[civic palm]

Having more TtK can help that, chest looks like best bet for Echoing Blades.

[distant lava]

cause healer couldn't heal and tank couldn't tank

[civic palm]

OW...

[remote saffron]

i'll try it out, thanks all

[civic palm]

GL, just keep getting w/e pieces you can, save Residue for 8.2

[distant lava]

how the fuck are you supposed to play the 2nd boss of boralus

[civic palm]

Get an easier key :3

[distant lava]

no I mean as sin

[lost horizon]

Don't play sin in siege LOL

[distant lava]

I was debating slapping exsang with g r g in the beginning then using vanish + vend + 2nd exsang when he comes down

[civic palm]

lol

[distant lava]

but I want to play sin

and I only do siege for that spyglass

[civic palm]

Then yeah burst ~> burst

[lost horizon]

But also dots keep ticking after she jumps

So it's not that bad

[civic palm]

But then you have THE REST of the dungeon to play as EX.

[distant lava]

idk I like ex actually

[civic palm]

lol

[lost horizon]

Playing sin in siege just hurts

Cause no restealths w/spotter

[civic palm]

Just become the FokBot you always wanted to be.

[lost horizon]

LOL ugh

But Nelf

Even as Nelf though spotter sucks ass

I just take the easy way out and play outlaw for that shit

[distant lava]

but I always play outlaw

Idk felt like sin today

only thing I can do that's different that 3ss 3 eb is 1 ttk 2 ss 3 eb

looks pretty shitty to me

[civic palm]

Also not that different O _O

SIN is pretty pinned to the ground on traits.

[static zenith]

is it just me being low geared/stats or being silly, but does the 110 rogue talents seem meh

i mean with the poison bomb being the go to choice

[drifting cloud]

yes they are pretty irrelevant

[static zenith]

is all 3 of our specs have the same choices?

[distant lava]

not outlaw's choices are

[static zenith]

true

[ocean rampart]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[full flame]

How has 8.2 ptr been for assassination? I heard we have some ridiculous burst potential with the right essence but thats all I know.

[rotund pivot]

No one is quite sure as things might change

At least to an extent is what I’ve read lately

[fleet whale]

Just got a 415 underrot dagger with socket and speed 😛

[tropic ocean]

from your weekly?

[fleet whale]

yes

[tropic ocean]

nice gz

[fleet whale]

too bad the new patch will be out soonish

[tropic ocean]

dont have that mentality

or you can just stop playing cuz gear will be devalued over and over ;P

[red plaza]

Meh, gear lasting 2weeks or gear lasting 2-3 months, one is inherently better

[royal roost]

What traits you guys think are best for m+ this week

3x eb 2x ss 1x ttk

3x ss 2x eb 1x np

Those are really my best 2 options I think

[strange python]

Hi guys, learning sin for m+ mostly, what nameplates/wa/whatever do you guys use to track garrote/rupture/poison durations on multiple mobs at once?

got flyplatebuffs atm but it only shows on the nameplate of the mob i have targeted

[zenith gust]

are these the final azerite pieces per boss? cuz if they are, most seem shit for assa https://www.wowhead.com/news=291381/8-2-ptr-build-30168-encounter-journal-operation-mechagon-and-azsharas-eternal-pa#the-eternal-palacebosses-abyssal-commander-sivara

[charred lantern]

@royal roost 3xEB and go full crit i use this

is this worth switching? I know i need crit but i dont need haste... And having mastery and versa never hurts. (for mythic plus)

[rigid mango]

2nd and 3rd

For sure

It's got no crit, got good stats and also a socket

It's waaaay better

[charred lantern]

is having no crit an advantage? but i see why its good

[fleet whale]

having no crit would be awful for gameplay

[rigid mango]

You can still gem + ench crit

And yet have much more relevant stats

[fleet whale]

and crit is really good for M+

[rigid mango]

than having haste

You still get nearly 80 crit, you're losing some crit in trade for actual stats

I'd take that trade any day

[charred lantern]

i see what you mean

thank you

[stuck knoll]

Did you mean to type haste @rigid mango

[rigid mango]

No?

He's losing some crit and a bunch of haste for actual stats

[fleet whale]

the way you say it, it looks like your saying that crit is worthless, which in M+ is definitely not true

[charred lantern]

yea at first i had understood like that but then i understood what he meant

[rigid mango]

hm?

Ah in the firs tmessage i meant haste for sure

[crisp hollow]

should I be stacking EB 3x for M+ or is a mix of EB/SS acceptable?

just have some limitations with my pieces rn

[rigid mango]

Any mix of eb/ss/ttk is good

I barely ever run more than 1 ss, only 2/2/2 for kr keys

[crisp hollow]

ttk?

[rigid mango]

twist the knife

[crisp hollow]

ahh ok

it wasnt even mentioned in the pinned guide

[rigid mango]

I normally run 3 eb/ttk 2 eb/ttk 1 ss

they're v outdated

And they were written before people realised the value of ttk

[crisp hollow]

its good in more than patchwerk situations?

[rigid mango]

It's better for prio dmg

Plays more like sub

[crisp hollow]

oh sweet

i'll keep an eye out

any more updated guides to read?

i haven't touched Sin since Ghuun prog

[rigid mango]

Wowhead's is possibly a bit better

if not, check seli's stream/ask questions in here

[crisp hollow]

cool, thanks!

[obsidian ruin]

opinions on PB/HB/CT talent row in 20+ keys this week w max 2 eb traits

?

kinda feeling the CT blasphemy

[rigid mango]

PB

always

CT is bad, HB arguably decent

PB always good

[gaunt trench]

Help a noob, im building for M+, should i enchant/socket my gear with haste? crit? mastery?

[vast kelp]

Usually crit. But depends on your current stats

[rigid mango]

Nearly always crit

Unless you're in the high 30%

then it might be worth while taking mastery (with a couple of ttks) or vers if you've not got any

[gaunt trench]

Thank you! Right now my stats are these so im gonna buy some crit stuff

@rigid mango @vast kelp

[rigid mango]

Yeah, chunk some haste for some crit

and probably other stuff too

You'd want to aim to sit at about 35% ish crit

[gaunt trench]

Oh ok! Haste doesn't matter, right?

[rigid mango]

It's quite bad yeah

I chunk it as low as humanly possible, I think I'm 1 piece off being neck only haste value

[gaunt trench]

xD haha ok

[rotund pivot]

Weapon still using quick navigation?

[rigid mango]

I'm using one in m+ yeah

1 weap ench and as many OP traits as possible to make up for low haste on ST when they proc

[rotund pivot]

Ahh ok

[rigid mango]

But if your haste isn't as low as mine, no reason to take it

[rotund pivot]

Mines 18% with 2 op and quick nav

[rigid mango]

18%? for m+?

[vast kelp]

Yea that's way too much haste for m+

[gaunt trench]

"ST", stands for what?

[rigid mango]

Single Target

[gaunt trench]

K

"TTKS" ?

[rigid mango]

Twist the knife in plural

[gaunt trench]

@rigid mango

Thanks! xD

[rotund pivot]

I’m also only at 400 so using best stuff I got. Not much I have to switch out

[rigid mango]

Yeah

Then that's fair

[solid nova]

@gaunt trench If you're interested theres an abbreviation section in the guide, might be useful for you

[rigid mango]

^

What the purple man said

with the weird picture

[solid nova]

http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/

I gotchu

[rigid mango]

Oh man what a helpful purple man

[gaunt trench]

Thanks @solid nova! Didn't know

[rotund pivot]

Only played assassination for a week when I sign up for mythic + everyone’s always whispering me “outlaw?” So that’s what I’ve played

[rigid mango]

Just give em the good ol yes

swap to assa last second before timer

[vast kelp]

[gaunt trench]

@rigid mango
In your opinion, with same ilvl

EB > TTK > OP or EB > SOB > OP

?

[rigid mango]

Idk about the > signs

[gaunt trench]

Oh it's the traits xD

[rigid mango]

But the first option is much better if those are the 3 traits

[gaunt trench]

1 2 3

[rigid mango]

Yeah just use / I'm too used to maths using those

[gaunt trench]

Ups sorry!

[rigid mango]

Oh not an issue just my head

Yeah, defo first

SoB is currently really underwhelming

[gaunt trench]

It's really hard do find azerite gear with both SS and EB so i will use the Twist the knife/Echoing Blades combo!

For me personally it is.

[rigid mango]

I mean you need one piece with SS atleast

for m+

[gaunt trench]

Oh ok

[rigid mango]

Like, need need

It's worth sacrificing any other trait for just 1 of

[gaunt trench]

I have one luckly, it's the only one btw

[rigid mango]

Yeah that's fine, I only run 1 for most runs

It's more or less only KR that I take more than 1

[gaunt trench]

Thank you for your help! :P

[rigid mango]

Np and gl 😄

[odd rampart]

anyone playing 8.2 these days? how are rogues looking? are we still OK in m+/raid

[rigid mango]

Yes.

[rotund pivot]

Everyone is pvping as lvl 12 gnome rogue twinks in classic wow

[odd rampart]

true

[opal oyster]

Anyone using Ask Mr. Robot instead of Raidbots here?

[forest leaf]

Is it worth having 1 SS and 1 Double Dose vs have 2 Double doses and 3 nothing personal?

[tropic ocean]

If there is multiple mobs or some phases of dps downtime maybe

But 5 traits are superior to 2 traits

[forest leaf]

ah ok i see what you mean

Thanks

[hollow stone]

Mr robot is poop

[rigid mango]

@opal oyster raidbots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mr robot

[next nexus]

How reliable is the dungeon slice sim for Sin rogue ?

on raidbots*

[spice surge]

Not very

[golden nexus]

3 EB, 1 SS, 2 TtK the move this week?

[rigid mango]

+- a ttk and eb

down to pref

[next nexus]

right now im 2/2/2 of each

ye but due to personal pref

[rigid mango]

That's arguably just as good

[next nexus]

sims telling me to take TC , EB, NP, SSx3

[rigid mango]

Sims are off though

[golden nexus]

i wouldn't wanna drop a TtK for an SS though, right?

my only option

[rigid mango]

not really, no

[next nexus]

never tried x3 ttk

i can drop an SS for it so might give it a try this week

[rigid mango]

It's worth while for the prio dmg

Like being budget sub

[tropic ocean]

3ss 3eb is as fine

[minor thicket]

is there any reason to have 2 Nothing Personal chosen?

Or is only one needed ?

[rigid mango]

One is needed, the 2nd and 3rd are still top tier traits

[minor thicket]

so If I have 2 its stronger?

[rigid mango]

It does deal more dmg, doesn't give more energy ren

reg*

[minor thicket]

ok cool

[rigid mango]

It's one of the best traits for raiding

[minor thicket]

perfect

[atomic geyser]

is NP damage affected by mastery?

[rigid mango]

Yes

[atomic geyser]

nice

[zenith gust]

Zine whats your opinion on next raid's azerite pieces?

[rigid mango]

Pretty meh for raid

I don't know how good the new raid traits are yet

so can't really compare them, some have 1 decent trait + a raid one, which could be really good or really bad

like, if the same traits are BiS for raid next tier

we're gonna end up with once again, first boss helm + goraks + cepha

[zenith gust]

Y they looked pretty shitty to me

[rigid mango]

That being said, if the new stuff is good

like the new traits

[zenith gust]

For raiding i mean

[rigid mango]

some of the pieces could be pretty nutty

But like I said aint got to sim them yet

But we'll see when sims get released ig

[marsh fjord]

I'm trying to find the pandemic timers of Garrote and Rupture can anyone tell me where to find them

[rigid mango]

5.4 for garrote and 7.2 for 5 cp rupture

(I believe)

[marsh fjord]

Alright thanks 😄

[hasty brook]

Would you guys take TTK over NP if just a 400 dps diff? 412 ilevel currently.

[bleak spoke]

Where

In m+ most likely ttk over np

In raid take what sims better

[rigid mango]

only 400 dps

[bleak spoke]

Also 400 dps is a lot lol

[rigid mango]

It's fucking huge.

lol

[hasty brook]

I guess if I happen to hit that exact amount but I don't always hit the sim dmg

ok thanks all. TTK it is then

[bleak spoke]

Contextually if you got 425 pants of same stats vs 400s it’s around a 400 dps increase

[rigid mango]

I'd be amazed to see that big of a diff

It must be dungeon slice?

same ilvl ttk vs np is much closer

[hasty brook]

Yeah both ilevel the same

[bleak spoke]

It’ll overvalue st in dungeon slice

[hasty brook]

But already have 1 NP so I guess 2NP is pointless for a 400 dps loss

[rigid mango]

I mean

Is this a dung slice sim?

or patchwerk?

[hasty brook]

Na raid. Patchwork

[bleak spoke]

Oh

Take the ttk

[hasty brook]

Gotcha

[bleak spoke]

Well depends on the boss imo

[rigid mango]

I mean tehre must be for sure other factors, no?

[bleak spoke]

I like second np on jaina

[rigid mango]

like, 400 dps from 1 trait like that is huge?

[bleak spoke]

I like a ttk on mekka and stormwall

Do you have crucible trinket

[rigid mango]

might be that

[hasty brook]

I do

[bleak spoke]

Cuz that would do something like that

Yeah

[hasty brook]

wait the

[rigid mango]

Ah

yeah

[bleak spoke]

I think you go np

[hasty brook]

[Lurker's Insidious Gift]?

[bleak spoke]

Over ttk

[rigid mango]

Yeah

That one

[bleak spoke]

Yeah

The bis one

[rigid mango]

It's really really good with NP

[hasty brook]

Okay so with that best for NP

[rigid mango]

since NP scales with mastery

and you always pop it in conjunction with vend

[hasty brook]

ah gotcha

[rigid mango]

aka NP

[hasty brook]

yup

[bleak spoke]

Ttk makes it so your damage over the whole fight is significantly more

But crucible trinket empowers your burst window to such a high degree it’s better

[hasty brook]

Even if simmed lower?

[bleak spoke]

Also worth it to note that bursty damage is usually superior in raid

Well it aims higher doesn’t it?

Sims

[hasty brook]

yeah

[rigid mango]

wait, does lurkers make cepha not bis?

[bleak spoke]

Yeah not only does your dmg profile get much burstier but overall you gain

[rigid mango]

and instead spymasters/mekka better?

[quasi pewter]

No

[bleak spoke]

There’s no dd np op chest

[rigid mango]

There isn't

[bleak spoke]

So ceph still better if you have like

[rigid mango]

but shouldn't lurkers NP value make up for the diff in OP vs ely whirl?

[cobalt gyro]

the current "BiS" runs ceph chest which is ttk np iirc

[rigid mango]

yeah

I know that much

[bleak spoke]

Dd ttk

[cobalt gyro]

ah

[bleak spoke]

The other trait on ceph is eb

[rigid mango]

but the value of NP goes up a lot thanks to lurkers

[hasty brook]

Mine is spymaster chest vs Ceph chest btw

[cobalt gyro]

damn it's good for both sets

wtf

[rigid mango]

yeah

se

I'm pretty sure

with lurkers

Cepha isn't the best

[quasi pewter]

It is

[rigid mango]

Just because lurkers + np value is better than 3rd ring trait

[bleak spoke]

Depends on stats

[cobalt gyro]

OP is, well, OP

[rigid mango]

Yeah I gues sthat too

[cobalt gyro]

a gigantic haste proc that rppm's with h aste

[bleak spoke]

Sim haste gems vs mastery gems

[cobalt gyro]

monkaS

[bleak spoke]

And check the chests again

[hasty brook]

hmm good idea. okay

[cobalt gyro]

@bleak spoke u ready to run this key with this set https://i.imgur.com/uRqZC41.png

[bleak spoke]

POG

[rigid mango]

3 heed

[bleak spoke]

i wonder though

wait are we going siege or underrot

[cobalt gyro]

idfk

it's good in both

[visual quartz]

let me know the Heed dmg. Feel like heed is under proccing when I use a couple traits

[cobalt gyro]

about 4% of my damage total

[bleak spoke]

Passes the pbomb test xd

I have this theory that if some trinket, azerite effect or talent does the same or better for you compared to poison bomb it’s probably playable

[hasty brook]

So is there something in the first boss (champions) that hits you out of stealth? Since I have MA I keep getting my opener screwed on opener..

[keen spruce]

you should be using tricks at 2-3 seconds before pull

and hitting right on pull

so you shouldn't get knocked

but no I don't think so to answer your question

[hasty brook]

I did but as soon as boss pulls I get pulled out of stealth

hmm I need to look at it momethen

[spice surge]

I havent experienced anything like that

But also, it shouldnt matter at all since you only actually only need to cast 1 mutilate during that entire MA

[hasty brook]

But I lose those 3 seconds of extra dmg no?

guess it should not matter. sorry that first boss fustrated me getting out of stealth

[spice surge]

Idk do you wait 3 seconds after pull to start attacking the boss? :p

[opal oyster]

Hi, what are the caps for assa rogue?

[keen spruce]

I don't think there is, stat weights get pretty hinky at high haste levels so Haste/crit/mastery all get fairly even

but it's really slim margins a lot of the time so it's better to just sim current gear set

Side question, if your'e running SS Should you delay your vendetta to line up with your vanish?

[spice surge]

Yes

[keen spruce]

vanish vendetta -> standard opener?

or vanish -> standard opener (with vendetta in it's normal part of the roatation)

[tall basalt]

so i've got a shit ton of crit and almost no haste- is there anything i can do to flip flop that other than just praying for gear that has haste on it?

[glacial jasper]

Gem and chant

That’s it

[tall basalt]

yeah, i've got both ring enchanted to haste and all my gems are haste but

i still have 25% crit and 8% haste

and my single target dps is suffering cause of it

[glacial jasper]

You must have a shit ton of vers or mast

[tall basalt]

yeah

21% mast

[glacial jasper]

Just play a lot to gears to get more haste

But tbh sim when you get an item before blindly changing because of haste

[tall basalt]

yeah, i usually sim for things like that

would it be worth it to run two quick navigations to make up for my lack of haste?

[keen spruce]

When do you second pot on jaina? wall or P3?

[tall basalt]

or should i stick with 1 quick 1 deadly

[keen spruce]

almost always one of each

diminishing returns on haste

[sour wraith]

No point in doubling enchants because they don

*don't stack

[keen spruce]

or on double stack*

[tall basalt]

mkay, thanks for the answers guys

[keen spruce]

how scuffed for haste are you?

like <12%?

[tall basalt]

https://i.imgur.com/aV4gKz2.png

[keen spruce]

do you have ring enchants?

[tall basalt]

yeah

[keen spruce]

that's turbo unlucky

[tall basalt]

all my gems are haste too

[keen spruce]

I'd just spam m+

and fish for gear

[tall basalt]

would the fate seal things help me at all?

[keen spruce]

seal fate the passive?

I mean your'e gonna have that anyways

[tall basalt]

the seals that the dude next to the transmog in dazaralor sells

[keen spruce]

oh yeah

you should always get 2 per week

at your ilvl use them on heroic BoD bosses or high m+ keys

[tall basalt]

does that just give you a second chance at loot when you otherwise wouldn't get it?

[keen spruce]

yep

[tall basalt]

oh damn that sounds cool

[keen spruce]

so in a raid it's per boss you just get another chance at loot

[tall basalt]

do i choose when to use it

[keen spruce]

yeah

you can save them up

i think you can have up to 6

you can only use one per kill

or dungeon

[tall basalt]

i'm actually glad i found out about this cause im bout to raid m bod with my guild so

[keen spruce]

just check which bossed drop haste

[tall basalt]

i'm prob gonna use them on oppy/rasta cause i have 350 weapons lol

[keen spruce]

you can get a 375 wep

from pvp

for your first cap

[tall basalt]

huh

i never noticed that lol

[lament leaf]

Sup guys, for M+ wich traits are we stacking?

[meager nebula]

a mix of ttk/eb/ss is what people here aim for

[lament leaf]

so there is no mandatory like 3x EB or so?

[vapid scarab]

it depends what you want to do

generally 3x EB is just gonna be pad damage, most aim for 1-2

[round harbor]

https://gyazo.com/dab2ad00cbe048a9f575b5c68ebd3079

ay bois we did it

[granite mist]

!essence

!help

[tall basalt]

what gem is best for sin in oppy?

[round harbor]

for dmg opal, u can take ruby but there is better classes

[tall basalt]

mkay, thanks

[cobalt gyro]

the answer is pretty much always gonna be "whatever your raid leader tells you to take"

[round harbor]

yup

and sin is really really good at boss dmg with opal

[nimble tartan]

you ever hit a 100k envenom in raid so hot..

[civic palm]

vanish

KABOOOOOOOOOM

[flint jetty]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iAn6cuwUiuuCm59eBUb59o

Ayy New dagger, dice and gloves and we in the 28k club finally lol

[mighty elm]

I welcome you

[tropic ocean]

finally 420 eb ss helmet

[bleak spoke]

Enormous

[short pivot]

Why dont i see 26k+ sims with TC?? My top gear always tells me to pick it and i cant seem to break the 26.5k wall 😓

[tepid ridge]

is there any "bugs" or anything with the subterfuge & SS traits? it really seems underated af when I'm checking logs / my own xp etc

[regal vessel]

Triple eb double ss one ttt is good for this week?

[tepid ridge]

yup

[cobalt pelican]

there are no bugs, no

you'll see it taken in logs for fights where it's good and not fights where it's not as alternatives are better single target

so you'll likely see 90% of the top 100s on champs/grong/jadefire/rasta being ss/subter, opulence being a mix and the rest of the fights having no ss

[tepid ridge]

I'm only talking about pure ST

ofc SS is way better on fight like jadefire etc

[spice surge]

Which ST fights are you checking with SS being really strong?

[cobalt pelican]

if you're not playing nelf on a shorter duration fight they're not particularly close

if you are then potentially ss comes out ahead but eh

[tepid ridge]

like mekka

[spice surge]

Mekka has a lot of downtime

[cobalt pelican]

mekkas a slightly weird fight in that the intermission downtime plays into ss favour compared to dd, but even comparing similar length logs

like

you'll see generally avg cast value of garrote being around 45k playing ma and like

100kish playing ss

[spice surge]

But in that case, you'd prefer NP rather than SS because it is better at that

[tepid ridge]

the SS are replacing the NP... wich also increase the exact same way with downtime

[cobalt pelican]

there is no benefit to replacing np with ss on mekkatorque

np just does more damage with no caveats really

replacing dd could be somewhat sensible, but when you compare like https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LkVGFYKqH7wgaChJ#fight=70&type=damage-done&source=166 and https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XWZB7j8VLHMkRbgt#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=7

if you just do some random very rough numbers like the difference in average cast value*the casts of the ma fight

it's like 950k damage would've happened with ss, and dd did just short of 1m

obviously those numbers are very rough from different players, but even with certain things going in its favour it's generally not better

and np just does like 8jillion damage

like lolae has 2np and it nearly did the same damage as 3ss, basically

and the numbers above are before counting the fact that you basically lose ma windows for this

which i'm 2 stupid to work out quickly

[tepid ridge]

it's interesting to read you 😃

and you're right

like... totaly right

[crisp hollow]

what dungeons should I be spamming to get daggers

feels like i have every other piece of a sin offset but no dagger luck from raids for 3 weeks

[cobalt pelican]

i don't think there's 2 in any dungeon so it's best to just choose the one with the lowest amount of items on the drop table if you're not picky

[safe bay]

TD is easy to get groups for burn through using cannons and being a rogue you get to skip stuff. Plus the daggers are actually half decent

[tropic ocean]

@crisp hollow the ones that drop daggers

[crisp hollow]

yeah i guess TD probably the easiest, maybe UR now that it’s not tyrannical too

[bronze kelp]

UR is also easy on most affixes and dropps a good dagger with crit mastery

[tardy jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4YBqNd3zASj93hb7GR3sRE

is this good for my stuff ?

[empty mirage]

hey guys, just a quick question, what is the best setup for assa in m+. Is it mandatory to go with 3 echos ? or there is another descent setup ,

And 3rd and last, is there a difference for traits re tyranical and fort weeks ?

[quasi pewter]

fortified you want to go 3 eb on almost all keys yea, not mandatory though, you can do fine on any key/any week with something like 2/2/2

tyrannical you usually wanna go more ttk/ss instead of 3eb

[tropic ocean]

this week definetely 2-3ttk week

[short jacinth]

What's the internal CD on eb, or does it just reset when you exit combat?

[winter moss]

there is no internal cd

maximum of 5 procs per cast of FoK

[short jacinth]

Oh I see, tyvm

[winter moss]

you're welcome

[short jacinth]

Finally got 3 of em and tried them last, trying to figure out why I was doing so much dmg, damn close to my outlaw set up

[winter moss]

both specs have their niche where they are unbeaten compared to eachother

[tall pelican]

No whats the best so many different answers. I have 3xSS 3xEB or 3xSS 1xEB 2x TTK

[bronze kelp]

hm... i never had a dungeon where i couldnt compete easy with an outlaw

[quasi pewter]

assa can outdps outlaw with 3eb most of the time especially if you pad instead of prio dpsing

[short jacinth]

Yea that's the part that got me, dmg was insane, prob just gonna switch over to sin for mythic+ going forward too

[rigid mango]

Assa has a higher dps ceiling than outlaw

If pulls allow you to do so

[tall pelican]

Would you just role wit h3xss 3x EB?

roll

[rigid mango]

I never run that

[quasi pewter]

i would never run without ttk tbh

[rigid mango]

I only run more than 1 ss for kr keys

[quasi pewter]

3ss 3eb is max pad

[rigid mango]

When I run 2/2/2

3 eb/ttk 2 eb/ttk 1 ss

[quasi pewter]

standard fortified is 3eb 2ttk 1ss for most dungeons

[rigid mango]

I'd say that the eb is interchangable with a ttk if the dungeon/comp allows you to

[tropic ocean]

3eb 3ss pretty shit this week

[tall pelican]

what about 2x Eb 3x SS 1x TTK

[vague eagle]

at what point in M+ would one switch over to Sin vs. Outlaw?

[distant lava]

you want SS to be on the lower side of traits

[rigid mango]

1 ttk isn't really worth while

It's not worth playing around at only 1 copy

[crisp hollow]

idk if I can word this properly, but what azerite traits are most ideal with what talents in what situations

if that made sense

[tall pelican]

Double dose no good?

[rigid mango]

Garbage.

For m+

You only swap ma/sub

Really

[crisp hollow]

like say you’re doing TB build, what should you be stacking/talents

same deal with exsang build (if it’s even viable anymore idk)

[rigid mango]

Exsang isn't really

Like I said, you really don't swap sub/ma

[tropic ocean]

ttk just hard carry bolstering

https://prnt.sc/o0wbd0

[rigid mango]

Only*

[tropic ocean]

dont use 3 ss 3eb this week

[rigid mango]

Like

generally

If you have an ss trait it means sub

None, it means ma, for raid that is

You always want minimum 1 ss for m+

[crisp hollow]

so like an example M+ build would be 3 EB/2TTK/1 SS (this week)

give or take more TTK/SS as needed*

[tropic ocean]

y

[rigid mango]

Yes

[crisp hollow]

okay sweet

[tropic ocean]

eb makes a huge difference in m+

[crisp hollow]

DD/NP come into play in raids too i’m guessing, any key things to look out for that i’m missing?

[tropic ocean]

just copy paste the traits from wcl toplogs for bosses and you're fine

[rigid mango]

^

Literally that, you'll see what most ppl are using

[crisp hollow]

ah yeah good call

[tropic ocean]

and for m+ theres different approaches

personally I like to use 2-3 ttk especially in this week to give valued priority damage

[tall pelican]

Dager in the back

any good m+?

[rigid mango]

Not really

[tropic ocean]

no

[rigid mango]

Like

Just

Eb ttk ss

Pls

[tropic ocean]

it cant proc of multi target afaik

so no point

[rigid mango]

Just take those

Please.

[tall pelican]

Eb bein the highest ?

all i can get is 3x Eb 2xSS 1x TTK

[tropic ocean]

thats fine to use

unless you can get better pieces

[tall pelican]

cant atm

[tropic ocean]

until*

i meant

[tall pelican]

and nothing eprson not the best?

[tropic ocean]

for m+ not

in kr/tos in tyran weeks i use 1ss 2 eb 2ttk 1 np

but thats personally my only exception

rn i use this

https://snag.gy/nfS0Br.jpg

[bronze kelp]

for the one talking about 3xSS for m+, consider some ttk to help your group. cause u force your tank to not chain pull cause u need restealth. and that restealth is only to push your own dmg. exchange 1-2 SS with TTK allows your tank to chain pull as much as he wants without losing to much dps from you but gain a lot of time + the dmg your dps buddies can do meanwhile

[rigid mango]

Für

[bronze kelp]

best is to tell your tank to chain when you still got 2-3 mobs left with bleeds on them, so you dont have to ramp up again

noticed it 😉

[tropic ocean]

"for the one talking about 3xSS for m+, never run that."

thats just very bad advice

[rigid mango]

^

3ss is still good

Has definite usages

[bronze kelp]

yeah, not the best expression

[tropic ocean]

it just comes down to group/personal preference

https://raider.io/characters/eu/blackrock/Âlessiø#season=season-bfa-2

uses 3ss/3eb all keys

[bronze kelp]

changed it a bit

[tropic ocean]

and doing pretty fine with it

[bronze kelp]

question is if he and his group could do better with another trait setup

[shy axle]

overall ttk will surely lose against SS, so it might be the best dps he can get (3 Eb, 3SS). Ttk usefulness is not only the dps increase, just "how" it is incrased (even if a lil bit less than SS would theoretically)

[bronze kelp]

also depends on pull size and kill tim eof those pulls, the longer a pull takes, the more loses SS in its value

but sure there are some well organized groups that play around this to max the dmg for the group without slowing the speed of the dungeon

so sure nearly every combination of the three "big" traits is viable, but you should always consider what helps your group most, and dont play for your own big overall dps.

[shy axle]

well said

[strange python]

is 3SS+3NP better than 3DD+3NP for single target dps? i see a lot of SS traits in warcraftlogs

[spice surge]

No, not even close

[strange python]

why do they use SS then?

[spice surge]

SS traits are good for cleave

[strange python]

oh

[vast forum]

depends on fight duration

SS gains massive value on short fights

[strange python]

oh, so like M champion one shot SS would win over DD even tho DD is a ST trait right?

[vast forum]

yea

champion is like a minute and a half fight

[strange python]

Alrite that make sense

[tropic ocean]

it depends on your fight lenght and if you want to push dps

[spice surge]

It needs to be a lot shorter than that for SS to be better than DD

Like 40s

[vast forum]

nah

[spice surge]

Since you lose out on MA as well

[vast forum]

SS/subt wins on 3-min sims as well

90 sec = 45 sec of buffed garrotes

50% uptime

also, hero for the whole duration of SS garrotes

or lust

whatever you prefer

[strange python]

Weapons Matter for assassin? like in outlaw using a sword/mace for dispatch in the main hand, sorry for the newbie questions, im tring to figure builds and stuff so i can use Outlaw for MT and Assassin for ST and PvP

[vast forum]

u can only mutilate with 2 daggers

[strange python]

oh

kk thx

[cobalt pelican]

i don't think it's really true that ss is better in 3min sims

[spice surge]

Its not

[cobalt pelican]

the difference between dd and ss is probably closer cause ss likes higher lust % uptime

but it won't make it 'better' than dd

[spice surge]

Just give me a sec

[cobalt pelican]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rtCsWD4UJKcGTuSfdrvAoP 3min sim for reference using whatever gear i have on

[spice surge]

3 min: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7QHrh8qaZVSuR1ZuUgUuvd
90s: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rhkkgpPq3hsMhbPULEqdu9
40s: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9dKDquP5XvyGyRxDyAX9zF

Didnt change any pieces, just hardcode changed DD traits to SS and subterfuge

Although if you nightstalker bug too the difference is miniscule on 3 mins and a pretty noticeable gain on really short fights

[cobalt pelican]

mm, yeah, looks about what i'd expect

[vast forum]

ok, yea, 3 min is different for me due to being nelf

[cobalt pelican]

the further from the lusted opener you get the more normalized the difference becomes

[vast forum]

what's the nightstalker bug btw?

[cobalt pelican]

secret hackerman strats

blizzard are watching

[vast forum]

i want them!

send me mail through a pigeon or smt with the strat

[fervent oar]

quick question, hows assasin in 8.2 and is it going to be a viable pick again? Im trying to decide between staying a dk main or switch to rogue

[vast forum]

dk main

[cobalt pelican]

can't know yet but nothing indicating it will be positioned any worse than this tier

[spice surge]

@vast forum Use tome > spec nightstalker > go stealth > spec subterfuge = First garrote is buffed by both

[cobalt pelican]

the last time someone asked this i said frost dks were new hotness and my messages got deleted : (

[vast forum]

this means you don't double garrote @spice surge ?

[spice surge]

yes

[vast forum]

sounds fun, i'll give it a shot 😄

[fervent oar]

DKs are so shit atm and blizzard are not fixing anything, cba torturing myself again this tier

[vast forum]

frost DK's getting "fixed"

[tropic ocean]

@spice surge

[vast forum]

not sure if really fixed or just pretending to fix

[fervent oar]

they are reducing the downtime a bit but its again the frostbreath build.. cba that

[tropic ocean]

is frost a new rogue spec?

🤷

[solid nova]

#wow-general is that way

[steep obsidian]

we had rastakhan bug out and not even send us downstairs

what a fkn weird bug

[shrewd helm]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[plain moon]

just picking up sin, do I toxic blade off cd, or do I just use it as filler when im at 4CP, also what if im about to refresh rupture and garrote do I still use it or hold for when im going to be going for envenoms?

[tropic ocean]

[long bear]

guys can i ask a question here about artifact weapon?

[vapid scarab]

@plain moon you use it off CD, but you plan around it. you don't want to have to refresh bleeds during it, so you refresh them early. you want to pool as much energy as possible before using it, so you can ensure you always get 2x envenom into each TB window, 3 or even 4 if you were super lucky with crits

[plain moon]

Thank you:)

[tame cobalt]

Hello, is there any updated guides for sins?

[sturdy python]

@long bear yes

[plain moon]

Also if I have no shrouded suffocation and im speced into master assassin instead of vanish garrote I should just vanish envenom or something?

[tropic ocean]

[rotund pivot]

Bend the knee before the pins and you will be rewarded

[nimble sequoia]

how many targets do i stop caring about envenom with 3 echo 1 twist? and how can i sim it

[royal lantern]

it deepens on the situation, not a number of targets

if there is a caster that needs too die fast you do envenom, if there is an enemy with way more hp then the other stuff, you envenom etc.....

[nimble sequoia]

Im asking in terms of overall dps

[tame cobalt]

how many targets should i keep rupture on in aoe if using echo?

[pseudo hamlet]

Guys, did they changed anything important in the last 1-2 months? Or everything stay the same? I meant azerite, talent points, M+ traits etc.

[tropic ocean]

@spice surge not working anymore