#assassination | Ravenholdt | Page 3352

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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if you have none, Master assassin is superior

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Which means you go for that opener^

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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yeah this was for my purely ST build

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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This is all in the pins

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in the guide

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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ah cheers ill check it out

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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!guide

prisma monolithBOT Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 AM

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There

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 AM

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what is "long enough"

📎 unknown.png

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 AM

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Not anything

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Don't take CT

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CT is pretty much only good if the trash is surviving for a very long time

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But atm, EB stacking is quite good

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 AM

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i think the question is "long enough" on garrote and rupture in that guide

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 AM

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And EB ends up dealing more damage

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 AM

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not about CT

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 AM

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Oh great

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well, yeah

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You learn that from playing, I suppose

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It's all relative to the level you're doing, and waht you're doing

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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there's a number let me find it

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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With whom

fringe narwhal Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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question I mostly play outlaw

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do you guys play EP and MA?

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in mplus

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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the question is how long the target has to live to be worth garroting and rupturing and there is an answer let me just find it real quick

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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no

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Ep yes

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MA, never

fringe narwhal Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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I thought that was the case

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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Sub always

fringe narwhal Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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have a pug with that

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 AM

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MA is garbage

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Sub + ss traits is too good

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in comparison

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:35 AM

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even for raiding?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 AM

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That's solely m+

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EP you take whatever content you're doing PVE wise

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The choice between MA and sub is a nobrainer in m+, as sub is far superior

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but in raid, the choice comes down to encounter and traits

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 AM

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@vapid scarab Garrote if the target will live for 4 seconds on single target, or 12 seconds in AoE. Rupture if the target will live for 4 seconds.

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 AM

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awesome, thank you

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 AM

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Sub with ss traits is superior in cleave, ma and full ST blast is superior in such fights

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 AM

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wow just tried MA opener, and that NP dot plus vendetta + vanish is huge

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 AM

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Your burst windows are far more impactful

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 AM

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@rose perch how many targets is AoE in that example

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 AM

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you can only garrote 3 targets with subterfuge time right?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 AM

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Yes

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 AM

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looks like any number more than 1 @vapid scarab , with the caveat that if you're at 4 combo points you can garrote a little more agressively

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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also, is it worth multidotting targets for purely priority damage?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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You don't gain ST damage, no

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Rup sniping low hp can be worth it though

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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yeah there's a slight ST gain associated with having a second set of dots out

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especially if you're lower haste

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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hm?

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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the energy regen

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gives you more globals

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 AM

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I thought it wasn't an ST gain

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yeah, but I've been told several times it's not

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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i've noticed that when stuff dies with i get a big burst of energy, what is that?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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Rupture timing out

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With a lot left

rose perch Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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that's Venomous Wounds second clause

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the passive

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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It refunds X energy depending on the time on rup leflt

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on a target that has poisons on it, that died with rup up

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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oh cool, didn't read that far

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 AM

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So you rup snipe

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Which is pretty much putting a high CP rup on a target dying soon, think balistas on jaina

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or in m+

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To get a huge burst of energy back, especially handy if you have a tb window coming up, for example

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:42 AM

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that's worth spending the 5cp for?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:42 AM

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If you wont waste the energy, yes

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:42 AM

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what do you guys take for M+ on 75 row ,im guessing iron wire is the go to

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:43 AM

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yes

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ib is very handy, and lovely to use

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but iron wire is too good

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:43 AM

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oh, i assumed prey would be go to since it lets your group burst prio targets really hard

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:44 AM

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no, the two other options are better

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iternal bleeding does a lot of damage, and iron wire is one of the main reasons for sin's strength in m+

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9(?) second silence x3 with 15% dmg reduc

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Yep, strong

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:45 AM

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isn't it only 6?

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3+3

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:45 AM

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uhh

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I can't remember

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Hence question mark

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I'm too tired, brain malfunctioning

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😄

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Yes, 6 seconds, and 8 second dmg reduc

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:55 AM

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alright, and if I'm reading correctly earlier, to do aoe as ass, at 3 targets you keep up garrotes on them all and FoK only to maintain poisons, do i also maintain rupture on 3 targets or just Env?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:56 AM

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In an m+ setting?

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:56 AM

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in any aoe setting, assuming the targets all live the proper length

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assuming sub is talented

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:57 AM

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I mean, I'm not sure past initial garrotes

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in an m+ setting, garrote isn't worth while applying past the first 3

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:58 AM

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but that's because the targets will die right

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:58 AM

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But that's also because stuff doesn't normally survive much longer than that, and the damage is much lower than echoing blades fok

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:59 AM

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do you rupture all 3 targets?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:59 AM

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Ye

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This is the point where we're talking like, cabal mythic

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 1:59 AM

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and once using FoK once to apply poisons, you build combo points with mut

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:59 AM

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Where even SoB can become a valid choice

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That's sorta down to traits

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If you're running echoing blades, several

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fok does more damage than muti at 2 targets

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:00 AM

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i'm just reading what's in the guide

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:00 AM

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but it's less effective than muti as it gaining cp

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at 3, you'd be foking to gain

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Unless you're runnning DD

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The guide is sorta outdated afaik, and doesn't include a lot of information regarding traits

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:01 AM

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yeah, i've noticed that, and it's not very clear either, hence all my questions

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:01 AM

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Yeah, I mean 3 target sustained aoe is a very niche situation

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that you're nearly never in

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:01 AM

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so is there a target count where you just FoK->Env over and over

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:02 AM

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once again, that sorta depends on traits 😄

sour wraith Jun 7, 2019, 2:02 AM

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There's a target count where you just FoK with the right traits

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:02 AM

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in m+, you'll do that at 3-4 targets

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with ttk traits

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yes, at 5+ targets and several EB traits, you mongo fok

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and just ignore CP entirely

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:02 AM

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what is ttk, it doesn't say in the guide

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:02 AM

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Twist the knife

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more env damage

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:03 AM

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how many EB traits would that take at 5+, 2 or 3?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:03 AM

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There are diff set ups people have for m+, doing diff things

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2

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I mean, possibly even 1, but I never run less than 2

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:03 AM

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what is the standard trait setup for m+ and ST

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:03 AM

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For m+ wise, it's any mix of eb/ttk/ss

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I'm running 3ttk/eb 2ttk/eb 1 ss

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Depending on group, dungeon etc

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or 2/2/2

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If you need more aoe, 3 eb will be better

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:04 AM

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so 2 of everything then

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:04 AM

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if you need more priority damage, you go 3 ttk

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:04 AM

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for a standard build that will be pretty good for everything

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:04 AM

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if you want a bit of everything, which i recommend for anything

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yeah, 2/2/2 is a super good starter build

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And also just a generally really good build

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:05 AM

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for ST tho? EB is useless right

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:05 AM

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yes, there we end at the diff between cleave and patchwerk

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Cleave, SS is god

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As man as you can, really

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rasta padding, JFM, etc

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Cabal, etc

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You need atleast 1 NP thanks to the insnae value it has at 1 trait

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:06 AM

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ok, so ST is 1NP, 1SS, and then 4 of whatever really sims highest?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:06 AM

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For cleave, sorta

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You want to take as many SS as you can, and 1 NP minimum

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for patchwerk style

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last 3 BoD for example

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Youw ant 3 DD + np

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and fill out the rest with other NP, bbi etc

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:07 AM

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DD is the mut trait right

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:07 AM

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Yes

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When running DD it's all about envenom uptime

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Since you get the 6 second buff from env that increases poison app

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And DD is a poison app, so you want to try to muti in env windows all the time, to get the maximum value out fo the trait

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:08 AM

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so pool energy before you env

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?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:08 AM

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Normally, you don't worry about it

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You nearly always have time to muti within those env windows

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Just like EP, you don't need to play around it

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:09 AM

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does rupture snapshot with EP

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okay

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:09 AM

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Nothing snapshots

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apart from SS/sub/ns

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:09 AM

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so EP you literally just ignore, passive talent

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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When you come to high tier min maxing, you pool and dump around it

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but it's a very minimal dps gain

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that's not worth thinking about

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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yeah, that makes sense

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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in m+, you can just think about spacing your finishers between fok spam

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Pretty much

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It's not something you need to think about, really

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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unless it's 5+ right, then you don't use finishers

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or do you still use finishers to maintain EP

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 AM

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not to maintain ep, but to maintain energy reg

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 AM

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oh with ruptures

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 AM

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you use 3 garrotes, rup -> fok -> rup

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and then spam

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When those garrotes start ending and trash still has hp

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you rupture, even better if you can rup snipe

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at this point

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more energy = more fok Sinscheme

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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so past the initial garrotes basically never garrote unless 2 targets

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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Yep

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Garrote isn't really worth it after that point

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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and then for aoe, just have 5 bleeds out and FoK spam

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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At 5+ targets, yeah

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1 sec

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I'll give you my copy pasta

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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less than 5 do initial garrotes and spread rupture to everything

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:12 AM

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lemme find it

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think of playing sin in m+ like driving a car, with 4 gears
first gear: 1 Target. you do standard 1 target rotaion (with exceptions if you're running HB)
second gear: 2 Target. say 2nd boss fh, your rotation changes a bit, you keep both dotted and you build differently
you muti first, 2 cp? muti again, 3 cp? fok, 4-5 cp? finish
This is if you're running 2+ eb
Third gear: 3-4 target, here you spread 5 bleeds and build and spend like regular, fok fok into env
Forth gear: 5+ Targets, here you spread 5 bleeds and fok like a madman, ignoring all spending until you need to reapply your bleeds with ruptures

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That's a pretty general guide for m+, atelast

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You'll notice how things work when applying it in game, and notice when to swap shit up

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:14 AM

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second gear sounds confusing

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how do you have 3cp after 2 muti

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:14 AM

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Uhh, that's just poor formatting

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1 sec

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1/2 CP = muti
3 CP = Fok
4-5 = finisher

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Muti is better at gaining cp, but fok does more damage

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well, better at consistantly gaining, atleast

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:17 AM

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it's fine to use finishers at 4cp as well right, unless you can pool for a bit till it's time to refresh garrote/TB is up

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:17 AM

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You always finish at 4+

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Since risking muti critting for 4

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is a potental 3 cp lost

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:18 AM

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well say you were at 4cp, you need to refresh garrote in like 2s, why not wait 2s to get a 5cp finisher

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assuming you wouldn't cap energy during that 2s either

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:18 AM

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Yeah, for sure

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If you're at 4 and you have garrote or tb coming up

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it's defo worth waiting and finishing at 5

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:19 AM

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okay that's what i was asking

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:19 AM

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see, you're already getting effectivity

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:19 AM

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i mean i play WW at a pretty high level already im just trying to learn how to play rogue now

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:20 AM

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Yeh

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:20 AM

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mostly just need to know what to do at what numbers

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:20 AM

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That's mostly what this spec is

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And preplanning

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All about planning.

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:20 AM

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yeah, used to that with WW already

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:21 AM

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St sin is mostly around TB windows

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and using them efficiently

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:22 AM

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oh, i thought TB was just braindead use on CD don't think about

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what should i be fitting into each TB

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:22 AM

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2 envenoms

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atleast

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:22 AM

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okay and more if possible

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depends on mut crits i guess

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for cp

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:22 AM

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If the situation lets you, for sure

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it depends on your haste, muti crits

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energy reg thanks to other sources

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For example, rup sniping a balista on jaina

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getting that burst when you're starved in your tb window

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might result in 3 instead of 2

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which is enough of a dmg increase to be worth while

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:24 AM

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rup sniping actually sounds pretty cool, i didn't know you could game stuff like that with assa

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:24 AM

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It's quite a niche thing

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It's not suuuuper useful, and isn't used very often

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mostly in m+, and niche raid encounters

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:24 AM

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it's kinda similar to how you would use MfD with adds tho right

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is that ever taken btw

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m+ or anything

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:25 AM

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Nope

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It's just worse

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pretty much

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:25 AM

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yeah i guess you would need a fight where you have 1 add spawning constantly and dying really fast to be worth

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cus at high targets you just FoK spam anyway

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:26 AM

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Yep

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It's just very lackluster

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:26 AM

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and deeper strat is not great to right

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:26 AM

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Not atm no

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Maybe later in the expac with higher haste or smth

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atm it's quite stale talent wise :/

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I don't change anything apart ma/sub

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Unless niche situation

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Like iternal bleedin is better on conq since you want to kidney adds

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Elusiveness is better than cheat death in tyr kr/tos keys

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:28 AM

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and vendetta in m+ is basically just use on CD if there's no priority add or boss within the next 2min right

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:28 AM

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Yep

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Just use whenever you can

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but as you said, want to have it for bosses or bigger add

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:29 AM

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kinda shitty not having an kind of CD for aoe

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:29 AM

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not really

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you outdamage people with aoe cds

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with 3 eb

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and they have down time, you don't 😄

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:30 AM

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how do you use vanish btw

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:30 AM

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in m+?

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:30 AM

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in dungeons i've been using it if tank chain pulls shit and i can't stealth to start with empowered garrotes

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other than that just on boss fights

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:30 AM

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yeah, I don't use it for straight up dps all the time

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I use it for situations like that

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or awk reap spawns

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or general utility usage

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:31 AM

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makes sense

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:31 AM

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Saving on stuff like rezan

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is imo better

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but you lose a bit of dps

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but you lose potentially more not using it later

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:31 AM

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by awk reap spawns you mean vanish so you don't die while everyone else is dying?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:31 AM

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same for using it in vanish skips, another reason outlaw has better utility

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By awk reap spawn I mean it spawns mid packl

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and you don't get restealth

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So you vanish to get 3 garrotes

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and get into spamming fok as soon as possible

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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oh yeah ok

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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if there's like, 1 dude left, not letting you restealth

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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reap is worth garroting?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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vanishing to fok faster is very worth while

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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didn't think it would live enough

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:32 AM

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First 3, yes

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not after that thouhg

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not dmg

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it's for energy reg

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for fok spam

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:33 AM

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it seems like a lot of it is just getting a feel for it rather than memorizing exact numbers

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:33 AM

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Very much so

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Numbers are good, but in application a lot changes

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and you need to do a lot of on the fly rearranging

vapid scarab Jun 7, 2019, 2:35 AM

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okay, well thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:35 AM

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np, if you need help I'm nearly always available in dms or just asking it here

misty edge Jun 7, 2019, 2:58 AM

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I honestly think this is my favorite discord I’ve ever been in. I’ve basically lived in here the last few weeks always getting ultra fast questions answered and reading everyone’s advice to other people. I’ve had some gear upgrades and such but my numbers in dungeons have gone through the roof from everything I’ve been putting into practice and 97% of it came from here haha

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 3:06 AM

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Glad to see it 😄

strange python Jun 7, 2019, 3:18 AM

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This discord is also very toxic but you know..

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Rogues likes poisons

near nacelle Jun 7, 2019, 4:13 AM

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Does anyone know if blizzard fixed the Racing Flag for Uu'nat?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:43 AM

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Vanish is also really good to use to ignore certain mechanics if needed e.g. powdershot

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 AM

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how long did you take to get "pretty confident" with sin overall? I am not playing m+ or dungeons that much yet (some raids on LFR) but still feel like i am doing something wrong somehow

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 AM

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maybe2-3 weeks after bfa launch since it changed a lot compared to legion

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I usually watch a lot of seliathan stream to improve decision making

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For raid its pretty straight forward and only changes when certain mechanics force you to move/burst dps

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 AM

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hmm so it's all bout getting more confident with rotation and the pulls

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xd meh i need to start to make some more m+ sooner or later

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 AM

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After some time your st/ 2 target is just automatism

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In m+ theres more decision making involved due to kicks/cc pull size route etc

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:19 AM

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but yea i am still not so sure like when you hit envenom you wanna spam mutilate on the time frame of envenom, if you hit TB you wanna use lot of envenom during that frame, right`?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:19 AM

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Depends on target count

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:20 AM

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yea for st it is, for mt you wanna add 3 rups and fok?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:20 AM

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You dont want ur dots to expire during envenom and want to pool energy so u can fit 2-3envenom into tb

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In a mt situation theres 2 different approaches

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If theres just many mobs that dont do hard stuff put 3 garrote rupture and pump fok while putting enough energy to sustain

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If theres a priority eg trash/reaping with ludwig for example u put enough bleed to sustain build with fok and pump envenom into priority

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:21 AM

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okay

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:22 AM

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a common pull this week is the pack with the backhand guys in freehold

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:22 AM

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yea but as you said prob. need to get that "memorized" like ST and later on decision making

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:22 AM

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Where u spam fok and spam envenom into the big one that cant be slowed

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Best 2 advices i can give u is play a lot

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And watch seli stream

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:23 AM

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okay

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thanks 😃

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yea i need to play lot more m+, but I am doing atm just random groups and feels like dunno 😄

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:24 AM

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it will get better once you climb and get into better groups/keys

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i basically went from 1.8k to 2.3k just by watching seli and trying to applicate the same decisions

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:25 AM

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Okay, but i would first need to reach any higher r.io score. my highest is DH with 870ish

keen spruce Jun 7, 2019, 7:26 AM

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What's the consensus on treacherous covenant? it sims pretty well but it seems like the downside is kind of gnarly in M+ and if you get any ticking damage in a raid you get clapped

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 7:26 AM

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btw on higher tyr how tf are you supposed to survive FH 2nd boss this week ?

#

just get lucky or

keen spruce Jun 7, 2019, 7:27 AM

#

pray your clothies dont get shotgunned

#

GWcmeisterPeepoShrug

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 7:28 AM

#

yea, tank tried to take them but the shot very narrow

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:29 AM

#

U can los the shot behind pillar if its really needed

#

Other than that rogue has a really good toolkit to survive multiple shots

#

Iirc evasive vanish (feint if taken elusiveness?)

#

and feint again

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 7:31 AM

#

yeah I guess los would help, it's the casters dying always

#

dodged many myself without evasion

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:32 AM

#

You can take improved feint too

#

So basically u can feint vanish feint evasion feint

#

If you get 5 after each 😂

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 7:33 AM

#

yea took it , lost barely 50% per shot

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:34 AM

#

If you evasion pretty late and get another one I think u can even evasion two

#

But not sure about it

#

i had the same issue you have and thats pretty much what flawless told me when I asked for help

keen spruce Jun 7, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

Troll for the dps or belf for the belf?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 8:49 AM

#

Prefer belf for mythic+ just super utility for many mobs

#

(Ur, tol dagor) just to name sone

#

Some*

keen spruce Jun 7, 2019, 8:52 AM

#

probably for raiding prog and m+, not sure if zerking is really gonna make a big enough difference to give up the utility of torrent

#

but the parses peepostudy

worldly iron Jun 7, 2019, 8:53 AM

#

probably more of a #wow-general topic

night vale Jun 7, 2019, 9:08 AM

#

@keen spruce https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t23-assassination

Hero Damage

Class theorycrafting community, latest simulation results and resources -based on SimulationCraft- for World of Warcraft.

#

Troll sims lower than belf anyway, if that makes up your mind

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 9:26 AM

#

@keen spruce not a big difference for sin anyway and belf has the critz

keen spruce Jun 7, 2019, 9:27 AM

#

that'd do it snimo thanks fam

flint jetty Jun 7, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

Earlier in the tier when haste was low troll was a bit ahead of belf but the resource return and crit hold more value with higher item level it seems

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 10:13 AM

#

I guess with the new gear 450 ilvl belf will pull ahead even further cuz of the flat 1% crit

#

same for goblin for the haste

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:37 PM

#

I wonder if there are people that actually race change to gain that extra 0.2% dps

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:37 PM

#

yes

#

I mean, changing to nelf is worth it

#

if you're ally

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:39 PM

#

Because of the 5% MS, right

#

😏

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:39 PM

#

Shadowmeld is v good in m+, atleast

#

not only for utility

#

but as nelf w 3 ss you can get 9x garrotes

#

as opener

#

100k each

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

Does shadowmeld trigger subterfuge?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

You shadowmeld -> stealth on non bosses

#

But on bosses, it only triggers ss i think?

#

it's one but not the other

spice surge Jun 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

Yes, you cant leave combat on bosses

worldly iron Jun 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

ss

#

not subterfuge

#

for bosses

#

so you're right

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

That's a funny interaction

spice surge Jun 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

And SS is amplified by subterfuge

#

So its quite a lot weaker than a vanish, but better than nothing

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

#

It's insane in m+ though

spice surge Jun 7, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

ye no doubt

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

means you can use get a 2nd m+

#

vanish*

#

brain lag

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

Zine is out here trying to cast m+

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

Dude, my brain

#

FeelsAffMan

#

Yeah, but it's nutty

#

Means you can use one as utility like outlaw

#

And still have one for the massive dps increase that it is for assa

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

You can reserve vanish in an m+ in case you get ganked by some horde

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

it TotT even necessary to cast nowadays?

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

wesmart

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

TotT?

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

Tricks

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

Yes, it's insanely good

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

Skittish

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

for m+

#

Like, with bfa aggro changes

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

ah for M+ ok

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

It's very good

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

that makes sense

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

just use on pull on tanks

#

in raids

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 12:45 PM

#

Bring back classic aggro tbh

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:45 PM

#

I use it nearly on cd in m+

#

Don't bring back classic at all

#

angery

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:49 PM

#

So on a fight like Jadefire, I'm basically just keeping my dots up on secondary target, and then using CDs/on main target ya?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:49 PM

#

Yep

#

Keep both dotted so you get all the energy reg

#

and pump damage into the monk

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:50 PM

#

for the first 2 garrotes, Suffocation and Toxic blade, would I stack both of the garrotes on main target, or put one on each?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

you go

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

going by the ravenholdt opener

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

g monk g mage g monk

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

ok

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

Get pandemic bonus on the monk

#

as it's prio target

#

and then follow regular opener from there

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 1:03 PM

#

Emerald or Opal for Opulence?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:03 PM

#

Opal

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 1:04 PM

#

thx

strange python Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

ruby if you are raid's bitch

#

besad

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

Does venomous wounds trigger twice when one target has two bleeds? Basic thing I've been wondering

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

Yes

#

You gain energy reg for both garrote and rup

strange python Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

works for every bleed, so both garrote and rapture

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

Not every bleed

#

CT doesn't work

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

What's the cap on extra energy income?

strange python Jun 7, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

thats beacuse no one plays CT

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

5 targets

strange python Jun 7, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

LUL

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

At 5 bleeds, you'll get inf energy reg

granite beacon Jun 7, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

👍

#

I've tried a few classes since I got back into wow, and this spec feels the most big brain

#

Actually planning ahead and managing resources rather than fishing for procs all the time

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:13 PM

#

anyone know how long you stay in vanish after you pop vendetta for the MA opener

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:13 PM

#

u dont stay in vanish

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:14 PM

#

doesnt it make the NP dot tick harder

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:14 PM

#

no you continue with your opener

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:15 PM

#

You use it to refresh MA

#

and get crit window with vendetta + tb

fathom echo Jun 7, 2019, 1:16 PM

#

ah i though the crit would affect NP Dot

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:19 PM

#

Sure, but it doesn't deal that much dmg

#

not as much as critting env with tb + vend on target

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:24 PM

#

What is expected from you as a rouge in mythic plus aoe or single target ?

#

If you go all aoe traits boss damage sucks

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:25 PM

#

You take a mix

#

2/3 eb, and rest are SS/TTK

#

Your ST is normally ok, and you have one of the highest aoe dmg ceilings

#

GWcmeisterPeepoShrug

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

It 2x echoing the norm ?

#

Like 3x is a waste ?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:27 PM

#

Nah

#

3 is still really good

#

You just need bigger pulls to make up for it

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:28 PM

#

Ok atm I’m 3x eb 2x ss and 1x ttk

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

Yeah that's fine

#

You just need your tank to be pulling big

#

and you'll be doing more than fine

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

Just getting been getting beat on bosses

#

Is that the norm ?

cloud iris Jun 7, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

Beaten by what classes

buoyant lichen Jun 7, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

Time vanish with 5 combo points so you can Garrote/Rupture/Garrote agian?

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

DH and a rogue Sin with single target traits

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

"st traits"?

#

wdym

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

Yep doing all that

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

If he's running dd/np

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

Yep

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

then he's a bad sin rogue

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

if hes playing DD and NP in m+ hes doing it really wrong

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

no fucking shit he'll out dps you

#

when he's specced into st

#

and you're not

#

LUL3D

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

if u want dungeon ST u just go SS and TTK with 1x EB

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

like, dh has good st

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

Like smashing me

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

yes

#

obviously

#

The diff between aoe and st traits

#

are quite huge

#

for sin

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

and how much overall is he doing @tall pelican 15k max? omegalul

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

Like

#

If you're dealing less than him at the end of the dung

#

and not like, nearly 2x

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

I did beat him overall by couple of million

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

like, if someone

#

ran 3 dd np

#

in an m+ dungeon

#

I'd be doing over double their dmg

#

in the end

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

yea

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

For sure

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

those traits are just garbage for m+

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

No doubt about it

#

Like, 1 np can be arguably good

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

Just cleared 2 key waycrest 17

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

actually decent as it turns out on tyr keys

#

Yeah, you should be miles ahead of him

#

WM has enough big pulls

#

where you should be beating by like, 10+ mil

#

atleast

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

yep

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

Yeah was 9 million

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

If you compare the diff in time spent on bosses

#

to trash

#

bosses are a fair bit less

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

Yep so just stay my aoe spec ?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

Like, running 3ttk/eb 2ttk/eb 1 ss

#

is what I'll be doing

#

this week

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

id say sisters boss is only "high ST required" boss but 17 is just so low key to min max around that

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

Swapping depending on dungeon and group, 2/2/2 for kr

#

Yes, you should

#

It's vastly superior to going ST

#

You can sacrifice an eb if you think your ST is too low

#

and take another ttk/ss

#

but that means you sacrifice about, I'd say maybe 3-4k+ end of dungeon average

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

2x eb ?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

Yes, if you feel like your ST is dragging really low

#

And you're not completing keys thanks to it, maybe

#

But I'm normally semi competitive with most specs on ST

#

bar shit like elly etc

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

I like my 3x eb and 2x ss

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

GWcmeisterPeepoShrug

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

2x of each shouldnt even be that low ST or 1x EB

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

Cool, so why are you here

#

If you like it

#

Why are you asking for tips, if you're not gonna swap anyways

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

Just didn’t know what people expected from us

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

I'm v confused

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

3x EB is more of a fortified week combo but it shouldnt matter at 17

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

Nah

#

3 eb is arguably better on tyr

#

since shit isn't fort, so you can pull bigger

#

= eb even better

#

You just need to have a decent tank, what can I say

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

maybe even that

#

ye

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

The diff on bosses aren't big enough

#

where the 1 eb diff will kill you, most of the time

#

if you compare fort to tyr hp/dmg

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

all in all going for DD NP traits is mega yikes no @tall pelican

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

^

#

at max, 1 np, but it's pretty situational it seems

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

i think ive seen 1 log of KR 25 i think it was with sin going DD

#

but thats a god damn 25 KR

#

omega

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Yeh, very niche

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Can you get mythic plus parses ?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

yes

tall pelican Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Like raid bosses

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

But no one uses them

#

It's not really indicative of much tbh

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

its not like raid bosses its overall dmg ranking

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

Very few use them

#

It's very hard to use parses to gauge how well you did

#

since pulls/your experience differs so much

#

every run

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

yea if you want any pointers id suggest just watching some streams i guess

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

I mean, looking at them and looking at what they're casting might help you

#

But even then, it's way too niche and not very substantial information to learn from

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:51 PM

#

@sullen pagoda he probably did that just to easier complete dungeon

#

because in kr 25

#

you go for complete

#

rofl

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

deplete*

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

well

#

its complete

#

deplete doesnt necessarily mean you complete

#

xd

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

never try kr

#

scary place

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

just overtuned

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Just go for weekly key

#

MonkaSub

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

because blizzard is delusional

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

yeah, insanely so

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

about balacing dungeons

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

like ally side siege

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

just like seat

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

PES_Happy

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

in legion

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

what are the desired traits in M+ compared to BOD raids?

lethal heart Jun 7, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

ttk/eb/shrouded

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

raids are DD/NP/BBI/SS

#

Depending on encounter

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

ttk = twist the knife?

#

thank you both

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

Yes

#

If you check wcl you can see what peeps are running for every boss

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

im trying to decide on whether to go outlaw or assassination. i dont want to keep switching haha

#

ok thanks again

sullen pagoda Jun 7, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

id say assassination is safe pick

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

Sin is always good in raid, and is looking like a super good pick up for m+ next season

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 2:08 PM

#

they seem to be stronger for pvp as well

#

is there an easy way to keep track of dots on other targets?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

Dunno anything about that, but yeah I'd guess so since bf is virtually not a spell in pvp

#

Plates, probably

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

so far aoe in m+ the basic idea with 4+ targets is Garr 3 targets and fok?

dense falcon Jun 7, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

when spreading bleeds in M+ do we always want a 5 combo point rupture?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

You gar 3x with sub first

#

and then rup, then build and rup again

#

at 5 bleeds you have inf energy reg

#

and can start spamming fok if you're at 5+ targets

dense falcon Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

dope ty thats exactly what i needed

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

or if you're at lower, you envenom etc

elfin gull Jun 7, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

gotcha ty

lean glacier Jun 7, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

Really dumb question. So the rotation im seeing for assassination says to vanish to reapply garrote, if im soloing stuff, wont it just reset the fight?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

Uhh, sometimes

#

if you're fast, not really

lean glacier Jun 7, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

okay thats what I figured

royal lantern Jun 7, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

vanish in solo content is like faint in raids

#

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt

#

🤷

lament dove Jun 7, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

usually if you want to vanish for dps, mob resets, if you want to get away, it doesn't work

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

solo won't work if you're the only one with aggro

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

Hey, I find myself dropping rupture way too often during tb, should I either refresh it before tb when it has over 7.2 sec left or maybe still use it during tb if i allready got 2 envenom? Or just let it drop and refresh the next spender after tb?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

You shouldn't use a rupture during tb

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

i think you pool poorly or

#

panic

#

i usually dont really rn into that issue

#

if rupture is >9 seconds when u tb you good

#

usually its 11~14ish for me

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

So that means at some point you refresh it over 7.2 seconds no?

#

For example if i just do my opener without lust, my 2nd tb comes right before the moment i'm supposed to refresh rupture

fading ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:26 PM

#

i run into that issue too, i would like to know as well lol

#

but then again i don't really play sin anymore

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

https://prnt.sc/nyyr3y

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

#

https://prnt.sc/nyyrg0

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

#

sometimes I overbuff > 7.2 yes

#

but in opener i don't run into that issue

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

Guide opener is diff tho

fading ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

i get into this weird cycle where my TB is always coming off CD right as my rupture is falling off

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

?

#

thats 3 target

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

Oh

#

Ye nvm

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

but its the same with ma too u dont refresh during tb

#

but after

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:32 PM

#

Let me try again

#

One sec

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:33 PM

#

if that happens @fading ocean u should've refreshed before

#

and pool porperly

#

theres no way it will happen it opener unless you need to move, which means you'll delay tb anyway

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 5:34 PM

#

Anyone can dm me for some ez questions?<3 I'm new to assa

fading ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:34 PM

#

yea i think im just garbo at sin

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:34 PM

#

Nah it's ok, i've figured it out

fading ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:34 PM

#

feelsyarrman

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:34 PM

#

Just need to sometimes refresh slightly before 7.2 or 6

#

And nothing overlaps

#

Good thanks for your help @tropic ocean

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:35 PM

#

np

#

@fading ocean just practiice it will get into your muscle memory

#

its basically keep dots up and pool/plan before tb so u can fit 2, better 3 envenom inside tb

#

https://prnt.sc/nyytwj

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

#

this is the important part, pooling and not overcapping before tb

#

https://prnt.sc/nyyu3m

Lightshot

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

#

even if that last mutilate didnt crit i could've fit 3 envenom

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

Link to a good guide pls?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT Jun 7, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

Damn

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

Thx

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

feeling so unlucky with traits atm. Right now got SSx2, TTKx2, NPx1, EBx1 :H

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

Also, another question, if you double garrote a target, do you also wait for it to completely run out to refresh?

#

Double garrote thanks to subterfuge

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

u g r g

#

then let it tick out completely

knotty falcon Jun 7, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

Yeah i meant that

#

and ok

#

Then the weak aura i was trying out is fucked FeelsBadMan

hushed valley Jun 7, 2019, 6:05 PM

#

Np stacks correct?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:07 PM

#

dmg yes

#

energy not

hushed valley Jun 7, 2019, 6:07 PM

#

Ok so what's like a perfect world trait settup

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:07 PM

#

for st?

hushed valley Jun 7, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

Cuz I've got 3x np then random shit for the next circle

#

I assume as is best in m+ still

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

no its shit

#

m+ u want eb/ttk/ss

hushed valley Jun 7, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

So just 1 ss

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

any combination

#

some ppl play 3ss 3eb and do fine

hushed valley Jun 7, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

Ok. I left before bed just getting back now

#

Where is dd useful

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

raids

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

on pure st encounters

#

or if you need heavy focus target dmg

#

(in st environment)

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

Not doing great on reaping what finisher should I use please ? Rupture till I have good energy then envenom?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:13 PM

#

if you're stealthed before 3 g into rupture spam fok and spread ruptures till u have 4~5 bleeds up then just spam fok

#

if you're not stealthed fok>rupture>fok>rupture>fok>rupture>fok rupture> spam fok

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 6:14 PM

#

Spam fok without using finisher? So envenom doesn't buff fok?

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

spam fok over finishers at 6+ targets

#

assuming u have the energy regen to do so

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

Seems more beneficial at 5+

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

What led to your conclusion?

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

Damage

#

Unless you're running 3 ttk's, and even then I doubt it

cobalt pelican Jun 7, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

use t he power of mathematics

#

then you never have to doubt anything

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:25 PM

#

FEELCRAFT

#

:D:D:D 😄

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

Okay thx <3

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

i wasted many minutes of my life making this stupid spreadsheet a few months ago of when to cast fok over finishers

#

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWvPyqa0qja-8-VnsBvzcbXHn5nunbCiu2JKceeM-RU/edit#gid=1435023667

Google Docs

Sin Rogue EP Finisher or FOK Spam

Im bored

Written by Dayvanie-Area52
2/20/2019
IMPORTANT,PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN COPY BY FILE --> MAKE A COPY or DOWNLOAD IT
Question - Under what conditions is it worth to spam FOK over finishers disregarding EP?
How to use

Visit Warcraftlogs.com --> Mythic Dungeons --> Look...

#

plug in your values yourself and see @ how many targets should you fok over envenom

regal vessel Jun 7, 2019, 6:27 PM

#

Nicee

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:27 PM

#

at 50% crit, 3 EB 0 ttk it tells me at 6+ its worth it to fok

#

but im not gonna argue over 5 or 6 targets

#

one thing to note, 50k dmg to 1 target is more "valuable" than 50k dmg to 5 targets

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:30 PM

#

so sheet is basically useless for me

#

will keep doing what I do 😄

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

how is it useless

#

plug in your own values

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

cuz

#

who is using 3eb 0 ttk

#

🤷

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

plenty of ppl

#

3 ss 3 eb is the pad spec

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

and pulls are often bigger anyways

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

🅱ad spec

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

3ss is actually very good for bosses

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

and if I use hidden blades

#

🤷

real bay Jun 7, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

combine it with lurker

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

hidden blades is factored in your average hits of fok

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

Zine just a prob. stupid question (if it is)

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

Sup

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

if i wanna go like "more or less" hybrid as ST/MT (going to get 2 EB, 2 TTK, 1NP, 1 SS)

#

should i focus on crit/master mainly

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

YEs

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

as main points

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

Haste is still worth very little in m+

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

yea

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

And if you've already got 4 "st" traits

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

i wanna setup my pawn as main crit, mast 2nd and haste as 3rd

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

You're better off pumping more crit and mast than a bit of haste

#

uhh, stat weights aren't that good to use

primal gazelle Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

didnt know ppl still use pawn lol

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

They're really off

#

And so is the dungeon slice sim

#

you have to know what to do with sin, v hard to sim for it

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

hmmm i just take it as indicator

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

m+ wise, atleast

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

yea i am kinda still new as sin

#

still learning :H

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

Yeah, you're still going to be way better off stacking crit and mast

#

mast scales w ttk and np, crit for eb

#

etc

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

yep

ocean sparrow Jun 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

Unfortunately, I feel almost useless with super low haste on TR weeks during boss fights.

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

so nothing wrong to go crit/mast as main and lil bit of haste later on

#

right now i am like 892 crit, 790 haste, 860 mast (370 ilvl)

ocean sparrow Jun 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

I can only ever remember what I have for crit...which is 1600ish for both outlaw and sin

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

I wouldn't worry about stat distribution at 370 ilvl

ocean sparrow Jun 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

Both are 14% haste, and I swap all my verse for mastery for sin

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

true too

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

Start looking into it when you've got more gear to work with

#

Cause at that ilvl better pieces will likely be upgrades regardless of what stats they have

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:41 PM

#

yea but lately i feel like not evne ready for m+ somehow

#

but yea i am afraid of m+ :H

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

#

Tbh at 370 you're not likely to be doing anything higher than like, idk a 5? Unless you're running with friends who don't mind carrying

#

Is this character an alt or your main?

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

alt

#

but tho random m+ groups are bi*** more or less

#

got declined at +4 :p

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

Pugs are picky af

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

yea

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

If it's an alt then don't stress m+, if you've done it before and know the mechanics you're fine

#

And don't expect to blast at 370, sin can get there but it's requires pretty specific gear

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

#

yea but i am not really confident if i know all mechanics. especially my boss frame is acting up again (i never get in terms with elvui xD)

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

#

Well rogue is probably one of the most forgiving classes mechanically

#

If you make a mistake and proc cheat death (which you should probably take to start out with) just don't make that same mistake again

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

#

yea but i am still not that sure what to kick overall in different dungeons I know some but yea 😄

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

#

Well that part's pretty important

#

I'm sure wowhead has guides for specific dungeons though

#

Can check that out

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

#

yea its like i am totally "new" to it, but sometimes i am not sure what i should kick or not

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

Yeah some casts are gonna have higher priority than others

#

Best bet is dungeon guides for that

dark crag Jun 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

In pugs i kick the deadly stuff

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

#

Or running with someone who can help call stuff out

#

I think his point is that he's not sure which casts are 'deadly'

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 6:55 PM

#

Bongo.

#

They need either a list of experience.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

#

Tbh there's a lot of important kicks in most BFA dungeons

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

#

Yeah my suggestion is to just interrupt everything you can.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

#

Melee meta

#

PogU

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

#

and make note of things that did not get interrupted that caused issues.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

#

I was gonna suggest the same but sometimes that backfires

#

Like shrine ugh

#

I'd say best bet is to run with experienced folks who can call it for you as you get to each pack

#

But you know, that requires knowing experienced folks who are willing torun with you can call shit

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

#

or that they are willing to even do that.

#

and won't just huff at you not knowing literally everything.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

#

Fr

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

#

Yeah, the FRENCH!!

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

#

LOL exactly

#

People are receptive to sharing like, niche strats/tips for high level but

#

Basic shit mostly gets glossed over

#

Cause everyone assumes that everyone else knows it

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

#

Also, if someone makes an error, don't blow up over it.

#

If they make it 12 times...

#

O _O

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

Ragers are the worst

#

In pugs especially

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

hey guys how do we use galecallers as sin ? I'm a lazy fuck and I'd like to make a macro on a spell with it, I was thinking with TB , would that be a bad idea ?

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

On CD

#

But like

#

I wouldn't macro it

#

You're gonna wanna place it when you won't have to move out of it

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

#

Yeah GCB's weighting demands using almost the entirety of the buff, so using it when you will have it most is better than stacking it and losing the buff half way through.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

#

I was doing sims and it said subt was the better talent for me without SS, I thought it was weird then I saw I picked nightstalker as the second talent and not MA dogeKek

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

Oof

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

udumbass

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

Honestly I was stoked to replace GCB with lurkers

#

Trying to lineup GCB on something like mekka is aaaassssss

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

^

#

Gimme lurk pls

#

besad

#

Just want hc uunat clealr

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Pretty much, you probably have options in your bags that are better than GCB as well, but only when something doesn't line up well.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Man I did heroic crucible once on a memey offnight without knowing the mechanics

#

I was rewarded for my stupidity with 425 legs off first boss and 410 w/socket lurkers

#

E z

#

Just be a shitter, get loot

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qoaEcuP7xbZcKPvqJZEgWA

Raidbots

Top Gear - Djakuzzi - 27,342 DPS - Raidbots

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

ezpz

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

meh not really mize

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

Cleared it once, didn't get it

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

My trinkets aren't that good for sin

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

fu ur god damn

#

sockets

#

jesus christ

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

I have 2 less than on outlaw besad

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

You don't have a plumage or smth?

#

Sheesh

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

I have but it's a pretty big loss tbh

cobalt pelican Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

there's really not that many trinkets that are bad to be honest

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

Uhh

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

cobalt pelican Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

well, unless you count like

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

Idk about that one

cobalt pelican Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

ad trinket

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

? _?

cobalt pelican Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

as a real item

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

ToS trinket

#

Cannonball runner

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Just don't move the mobs 4head.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

I mean, that can be similar in real value

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

There's some pretty shit tier tinkers LOL

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

shit overall

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

plumage and gcb sim at same value for me at equal fotting

#

footing*

#

but at the same time, plumage is just macro to vend

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Which makes Plumage much better.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

and nothing more

#

🤷

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Plumage is solid

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

V much so, but his is 10 ilvls lower

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Rip

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

and mine is 10 ilvls lower and doesn't have socket

#

so

#

:/

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Well if you can't use GCB properly there's no point

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Not sure it matters really, especially when you cannot use GCB correctly.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

first time I killed uunat I got trinket and gave it to our enh sham dogeKek , regret that now

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

At that point you've a shitty stat stick.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

What Miz said cept I said it faster

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

oof

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

👌

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

I used more words!!

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Shit true

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Socket is nice though

#

😦

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Course.

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Listen it's not the size of your response

#

It's how you use it

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

What if I've better size and better use?

#

o _o

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

Woah toxic

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

nods

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

Must be french

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

Close.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

angery

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

hm

#

410 socketed gcb vs 400 plumage

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

Plummage.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

110 more dmg to gcb

#

aPES_Think

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

Especially in CoS.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

I hate CoS.

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Yeah well it hates you too.

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

cos best raid

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Everything does

#

besad

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

"DONT DISPELL ME"

#

DISPELLED

ocean sparrow Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

425 socketed harlans 👀 👀 👀

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Y ur dmg so low bru?

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

"WHY ARE YOU DYING"

#

"CUZ I DONT GET DISPELLED"

lost horizon Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Pretty sure my raid is never going back there thank fucking god

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

"DONT STAND IN SHIT"

#

"IT WAS CRUSHING DOUBT"

#

:DDDD

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

Why'd you take ~100k DMG in a predictable manor?

#

_>

#

[sighs in Melee]

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

time to go whack a dummy peeporun1

#

@civic palm laziness won I'm going plumage

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

I mean that's just you banking on the game fucking you over somehow 2 seconds before GCB is off CD.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

more like

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

Which we all know, happens.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

me banking on the fact I'll be too focused on my rotation

#

to not make mistakes

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

Eh it will take you like... 2 pulls.

#

ezpz

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

oh I forget the most important step of all

#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

Poisons are the most important step.

#

btw

#

Apply poisons.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

dw I know

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

Or don't, if you feel like it.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

I've dabbled in dirty sin bois waters before

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

This is why you won't get into guilds.

#

Failure to apply poisons.

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

Wdym, I don't like poisons

#

It's v toxic

#

And I'm not toxic

#

angery

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

What are you a Priest?

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

seeing not bis azerite on me makes me want to gamble again Reeeee

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

I am reform

#

idk, what are you using?

#

Cba scrolling

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

missing a good chest

#

venture co is my best

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

ucouldjustsaythetraitsthough

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

double dd 2 np 1 uc 1 bbi

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

OOF

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

going 20 td

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

3 op

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

with EXSANG 3 SS

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

UC

#

pepega

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

UC GCB full meme

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

ohhh boi

#

stream it Ausgelebt :p

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

wdym pepega

#

you mong

#

it sims the highest

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

Wdym mong

#

You pepega

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

cant stream

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

I'm not slapping SoB on that chest

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

im downloading poe while playing

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

not having better piece

#

OMEGALUL

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

UC is the real kick in the balls here.

distant lava Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

I have reverent and venture co

pearl bear Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

im not sure how to link logs but im only pulling maybe 20k on M op is it my gear or rotation?

civic palm Jun 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

Could be both.

#

Probably.

#

or mechanics focused.

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

tropic ocean Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

20k on mythic opulence is

#

decent

#

😄

pearl bear Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

yeah im pretty focused on the mechanics

limber gust Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

:H

rigid mango Jun 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

It's hard to do anything