That is covered in the guide in the pins.
#assassination
weak vine
Yeah, been doing that as the guide says so. Just been thinking with triple dd i would think it'd be more beneficial to have mutilate crit more with tb buff on the target rather than just having tb crit.
desert night
MA lasts for 3 seconds, so TB'ing out of Vanish gets you the most time with that buff for the following mutilates/envenom.
flint jetty
You can also do g>m>r>m to 4+ cp>vendetta>tb>>van>env. Which has a higher potential output but also relies on rng.
Or if you feel like really pushing your luck
M>r>m>g>vendetta>tb>vanish>env. Which can be even stronger of an opener but relies even more on rng. So it's possible that it could end up being weaker If you don't crit. The one in the guides is the most reliable or consistent while the others can pontentially burst higher but have a greater reliance on critting in the MA window.
@weak vine
weak vine
Makes more sense now, thanks. Gonna experiment today when reclearing.
tropic ocean
never open with m>r>m>g
this is like on of the worst openers I ever read
in bad circumstance ull have 2 cp then 2cp rupture 2 cp 1 cp vendetta
and miss energy that you couldve dumped into vendetta tb envenoms
absolutely no sense to open like that
shy axle
Yes, do not use it under normal circumstances. But what it says is true. It could work with under really lucky conditions, to be a dps-gain. But due to its total reliance on luck it is just a gimmicky thing to goof around
nothing else was stated
chrome inlet
What is my best trait combination for m+?
I was thinking something like :
Head:SS+TC, Shoulders:EB+BR, Chest: EB+TTK
shy axle
head tk/ss, chest as you said and the EB on shoulders. Don`t know much about the second row difference. Best to sim it now
I´d say
ah mb
didn`t realize the low ilvl of crown
chrome inlet
Yeah, crown is 370, sorry for the bad resolution of the screenshot ahah
shy axle
chest is very good for assa but tbh with those traits available I´d just go outlaw and find some wits for myth+
np
chrome inlet
What traits setup you suggest to have a decent m+ performance?
Nvm, it was already answered some time ago here
true thistle
Are there any major changes to assa gameplay since 8.1?
tropic ocean
no
cos boots dont seem to be too bad for m+
:^)
hard to say for m+ but the uptime is very decent
if I dodged some more stuff probably 90%+
they give 101 versa and 220 crit on 10 stacks
haste/mastery
with cos boots im at 36% crit @ 10 stacks
fluid pagoda
anyone here? got a question about the guide.
rigid mango
Sup
fluid pagoda
the guide is either unclear or wants me to assume to just use rupture asap when you spec Exsanguinate? it doesn't say to wait till 4+ combo points until it tells you to use envenom
tacit knoll
guys does master assasin works for you?
cobalt pelican
rupture usage doesn't change outside of the opener between talents besides making sure you don't overwrite the exsanguinated rupture
tacit knoll
when i am in stealth shouldnt my crit chance be x+50%?
i have 20% crit chance
when i enter stealth and 3 sec after i break stealth shouldnt i have 70% crit chance?
cobalt pelican
yeah, doesn't show on the character pane though
spice surge
Its only 50% crit on all of your rogue abilities/traits, not a flat 50%
spice surge
trusting wow tooltips in 2k19
tacit knoll
how can be sure that it works?
spice surge
But its 50% on basicly everything, the things that are excempt are your trinkets and your t3 traits (such as gutripper)
tacit knoll
tbh i never feel i crit more often after vanish
tacit knoll
i dont see why it shoulnt be showned in the panel
spice surge
Because its not a flat 50% crit
So its not shown there
But its 50% on basicly everything, the things that are excempt are your trinkets and your t3 traits (such as gutripper)
round tree
Can somebody explain the rupture part of the venomous wounds passive?
cobalt gyro
You get energy for each tick of rupture on a poisoned target @round tree
rose perch
yeah and then when the target dies you get energy if it had a rupture on it - more the longer the rupture had left
cosmic pier
roughly how much haste do people run for m+? 10-15% ?
tropic ocean
i have 9% and I want to lower it
st dps is carried by 2x-3x overwhelming power and lurkers trinket
cosmic pier
how do you find ST damage? havent play sin in m+ since early s2
fair enough
lurkers worth it in m+ with the damage?
tropic ocean
ye if your heal is fine with it
dmg taken throughout the dungeon of trinket
st is 23-25k st
with 416 ilvl 420weap
cosmic pier
i have 425 socketed vigor which is def my best trinket, then my options after that are 410 lurkers, 405 socketed resonant heart or 400 avoidance spyglass
tropic ocean
lurkers will carry ur st dps hard and is also nice to pop in packs
cosmic pier
or 400 dice, but i dont think thats worth
tropic ocean
from your trinkets I'd use vigor and lurkers
personally i use 410 socketed spyglass+ lurkers
cosmic pier
i also have a 410 plumage
tropic ocean
dps wise lurkers >>>>> plumage
i have 415 socketed plumage and use 410 lurkers over it
only reason to not use lurkers is if your healer struggles
cosmic pier
what traits are you running?
tropic ocean
but even then just remove buff when vendetta is out
usually I use 3 op instead of elemental whirl, but cba to reforge chest on raid days
cosmic pier
yeah ill have prety much the same, finally got 415 pieces i could use for sin. wasnt worth playing over outlaw when i only had 400s for it
tropic ocean
i still gamble helmet sadly ;p
cosmic pier
i still dont have gorak tuls, so tilting
tropic ocean
took me some time as well, got it last id
cosmic pier
i was gonna roll shoulders again this week, but decided to try helm so i could muck around with sin
my raid dps is fine anyway
tropic ocean
helm is worth rolling for m+
since you got decent options for chest/shoulder out of raid as well
cosmic pier
yeah i got irontides, ez clap
how did you choose rings? always big crit, or big mastery small crit fine if i have plenty anyway
merry zinc
what are u running this week? 3ttk 2 eb 1 ss?
cosmic pier
i havent played sin in a while so im gonna start with 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss, and swap to either 2/2/2 or 3ttk 2 eb 1 ss depending how it goes
tall pelican
When I sim for mythic plus do you sim patchwork’s ?
I’m heavy aoe atm 3xEB 2xSS
And single target sucks
dusky tinsel
Depends on how your group normally pulls, if you pull relatively big consistently, then it might be worth doing patchwerk 10 targets for 1 min or so. Dungeon slice is ok for M+ simming, but its really just a composite of light cleave favoring ST. I'd take your sims with a grain of salt either way, but depends on your composition and the scenario you're accustomed to being in.
tall pelican
Change my traits this week for more single target ?
dusky tinsel
I wouldn't say that, as I believe for assassination at least, the goal is 3xSS and 3xEB, which is hard to come by, but gives you the most diversity for overall damage in a key.
dusky tinsel
Yeah, well Outlaw will still be fine, the change makes their damage higher in 2 target cleave while capping out their damage in multiple target counts, which is a decent change (far better than it could have been historically with blizzard). Assassination currently does the same damage as outlaw in AoE, but it requires you to have very specific traits, whereas Outlaw just needs 1 Wits to be good. I'm quite certain Assassination will be the default in 8.2 for M+.
real bay
ass for lief
wide hedge
so whats the dream in m+? 3x eb and 3x ss or 3x eb and 3x sob?
royal lantern
deepens on the week
1xss 2xEB is a good base for everything
SoB only gets value in REALLY long pulls
tropic ocean
3eb 3ss 3eb 2 ttk 1 ss 2eb 3ttk 1ss
choose whatever u want
i recently just always go 3 eb so I can mock outluls
dark crag
It's outlow
vestal wren
fidget spinner assassination
royal lantern
the correct name is ''yahtzee pirate''
vestal wren
yes, thats how you feel paying EB assassination
dark crag
Spin to win
supple compass
vestal wren
i think we had enough meming 😉
tropic ocean
sorry fuu, mb, i'll leave the meming to sub channel 😃
fresh abyss
hi guys
what's the best current sin guide?
trying to get into m+ and get a decent raider.io score
tropic ocean
tropic ocean
ravenholdt website
cobalt pelican
the ravenholdt guide says it was last updated in january
and even if it was october besides the introduction of np basically nothing has changed
oh and eb i guess
fresh abyss
what are np/eb?
marble hemlock
Theyre traits. There's even an "Abbreviation" Section in the BoD Guide that is linked in the pins.
shy axle
at how much targets do you just 4x rup -> fok spam? I am doing it when there are 4+ present, but want to double check again. Under 4 still using my cp`s on Env/Rups x3
rigid mango
5+ is normally the break point I use
tropic ocean
depens whether you need to prio down smth or not
e.g. when pack+ludwig or reaping+ludwig is pulled i use fok to build and dump with envenom into ludwig
fresh abyss
awesome, thanks!
few q's
with these stat prio changes between single/aoe
do people change gear mid-fights?
mid-dung*
also, which poison should i apply?
doesn't mention that on ravenholdt
rigid mango
Yes, haste is horrible in m+, instead you want crit and mast, with vers being not far behind mastery (or even ahead, depends on your set up)
No, people don't change mid dung because it's not a thing you can do in m+
And for poisons, deadly + cripp
fresh abyss
is there a simple way to sim for this? just seems so arbitrary otherwise
rigid mango
Unluckily dungeon slice sims for assa are really bad
since it values low target/boss fights way higher than an actual dungeon is represented
which means haste is valued decently in those sims
You can't really sim it super accuratly, and jsut have to learn
fresh abyss
so are there not numbers i should be aiming for?
otherwise how am i meant to learn that haha
rigid mango
there aren't any soft caps
You just look at the traits and realise what is good for that trait
Like crit, is insane for EB, which is one of the core m+ traits atm
Mastery, scales with TTK (twist the knife) damage, another core m+ trait
But if you're not running TTK's, why take mastery when vers is better
fresh abyss
ok so do you ever change gear/spec depending on the m+ dung you're running?
and so my priority is still 1) go for best traits
and then adapt stats around those traits
rigid mango
one could make an argument for outlaw vs assa atm
But I cba having that discussion for the 100000x time of my life, and just talk about assa
Yes, some dungeons different traits shine brighter
Dungeons with lower pull sizes, think KR
Eb value goes down, but SS and TTK damage goes up
thanks to the amount of 3-5 target pulls with normally 1 target that needs to die faster
fresh abyss
oh lawdy
okay
sorry i do really appreciate the help
just a tad overwhelmed
i only resubbed a few days ago
i hear outlaw is better
but am mostly planning on pvping
and want to be sin for that
rigid mango
Yes, but at your level it wont matter
fresh abyss
wasn't sure if it's easy to gear up with outlaw then change to sin
fresh abyss
feels like i'm perhaps better off just gearing up with sin
rigid mango
since nearly everyone here mostly/only plays pve
fresh abyss
i'm not looking for pvp info rn
strange python
it is much easier gearing up with outlaw
fresh abyss
i need to gear up
strange python
sin is very trait-heavy
the most efficient way to gear, outside of just getting lucky, is to play outlaw and then save every single piece of azerite you get
lol
fresh abyss
@strange python will i not have to get a whole new set of gear for sin pvp though?
rigid mango
Gearing wont matter
rigid mango
Since new gear is coming in 1 month
Just learn the class
worry about gear later
You're not going to be pushing anything high compared to the people who've been gearing for months
fresh abyss
sure
strange python
if your main focus is gearing, though, outlaw is definitely the way ^^;;
I do agree with Zine though
rigid mango
I mean
fresh abyss
do outlaw and sin have diff stats in terms of the non-azerite gear they get from dung/raids etc?
fresh abyss
because i'd like to get up to ~400 asap to pvp
strange python
you COULD play sin with triple scent and random neutrals
rigid mango
Yeah
fresh abyss
just wanna do it the most efficient way poss
strange python
you could definitely do that
rigid mango
Doesn't matter
It's as easy to get 400 ilvl
as either spec
It's just min maxing traits
strange python
Pick what spec you wanna play, and start gearing that spec. Untill you reach a point where traits matter ALOT you will have collected quite a few different pieces already.
😄
rigid mango
is way harder for assa
strange python
outlaw has 1 required aoe trait
fresh abyss
ah i see
strange python
sin is just more situational
fresh abyss
one final q sorry
strange python
because of the way outlaw aoe works
fresh abyss
i actually prefer outlaw as a spec
but will play sin for pvp
so can you answer the question i had about
lemme find it
strange python
if they haven't removed scaling, it's more efficient to :^)
cobalt pelican
and it's reasonably quick to gear through conq cap to ~400 if you wq between queues
fresh abyss
do outlaw and sin have diff stats in terms of the non-azerite gear they get from dung/raids etc?
strange python
ya
cobalt pelican
the exact same pieces drop besides weapons
strange python
outlaw hates mastery
rigid mango
Crit haste is generally good for both
cobalt pelican
i think they just misinterpretted the question
strange python
outlaw does not like mastery
cobalt pelican
the same pieces drop, but different pieces are desirable
rigid mango
I think you misinterpreted the question(?)
fresh abyss
@cobalt pelican ok so it's plausible that i can gear up with outlaw (because i find it more fun, it's probably easier for me to get introduced to the m+ scene with) and then when i'm about ~400 i can easily switch over to sin gear for pvping?
strange python
""easily""
rigid mango
The only thing that matters
strange python
like I said
rigid mango
is weapons
fresh abyss
just wondering if it's a case where i'll get to 400 as outlaw then have to get an entirely new set of gear for sin
strange python
you COULD play sin with triple scent
rigid mango
outside of azerite
strange python
just gl with azerite
rigid mango
Like
You have to realise
that outlaw has a bunch of good traits
Sin has verys pecific ones
that are good
strange python
1 wits is equivalent to 2 or 3 EB
rigid mango
In quite specific situations
rigid mango
That's not comparable
strange python
it's a little comparable
cobalt pelican
yeah you can quite easily, stat weights are important for min maxing but especially in pvp like
rigid mango
if you have weapons
cobalt pelican
vers is a decent stat
fresh abyss
okay awesome! thank you all
i think i'll try outlaw for a while
it was my fav spec in the game at the start of BfA
fresh abyss
i just thought i'd be pidgeonholed into outlaw if i geared up as it
rigid mango
I mean you will, weapon wise
and probably azerite
But if you're fine with fixing those when you reach that level, sure
Then you wont be poorly off
strange python
once your weps are both 400
rigid mango
every stat is good for sin
strange python
just switch to sin lootspec
rigid mango
So whatever you get, is good
fresh abyss
@rigid mango and i can just "fix" the azerite by re-speccing it to my new specialisation? it's quite cheap isn't it?
(unless i do it lots)
strange python
the problem isn't really the respeccing
fresh abyss
really appreciate the help guys
strange python
it's just that sin azerite is really spread out
minor thicket
Anyone available to look at my logs? Just looking where I can improve.
lost horizon
@minor thicket post em up
rigid mango
but sin has a lot of pieces that are really bd
lost horizon
I'm on mobile but someone else will probably be able to peek a bit better
fresh abyss
sure but regardless of that, in terms of my end-goal of having solid sin pvp gear, i am just to collect up high ilvl azerite pieces and then i should have access to a large pool of good traits (hopefully) for sin and outlaw?
rigid mango
Yes, sorta
fresh abyss
crux of my q is: is there any reason to not gear up as outlaw before changing to sin other than weps (which isn't a huge deal)?
rigid mango
Weapons are a huge deal, yes
strange python
you require 2 daggers to play sin
rigid mango
And gearing as outlaw might ultimatly cuck you in sense of azerite
strange python
outlaw cannot play outlaw with 2 daggers
fresh abyss
how so? @rigid mango
rigid mango
since you might aim to get azerite pieces that are good for outlaw first, but it shouldn't matter
rigid mango
I mean Idk how many garbage piecs for sin that I've scrapped
like raid pieces
that were good for outlaw
rigid mango
but I scrapped, because I knew I had a chance at sin pieces
fresh abyss
sure ya, but in the grand scheme of things i'm currently 378 ilvl, so essentially when i get to ~400 pieces i should just keep them all?
strange python
ya
rigid mango
Yes, probably
strange python
except obvious bad ones
fresh abyss
ya true haha
so will 8.2 make current gear redundant because of an increase in overall ilvls OR changes in trait meta?
or both?
or something else?
y'all making me tempted to just level up another alt if the next month or so is essentially wasted time
rigid mango
The first, for sure
The latter, we don't know yet
I mean, I'd gear now for sure
Just not care much about it, and care less about min maxing
rigid mango
At a level that is sort of in limbo, and gone in 1 month
minor thicket
Season restarts anywah
rigid mango
@minor thicket you missed 2, nearly 3 tb casts
minor thicket
Tb?
fresh abyss
do any of you guys play many other classes btw?
rigid mango
You missed an entire vendetta cast?
minor thicket
Yea but I used it on the adds
minor thicket
Yea but saving it to align with lust
rigid mango
during the entire fight
@fresh abyss that's more of a #wow-general question 😄
You shouldn't be saving
it
minor thicket
And I used the TB on the add I think
minor thicket
No?
rigid mango
Yeah, like I said
you casted it
irregardless of tasrget
You missed 2 entire casts of tb
during that fight, which is a good amount of damage
minor thicket
And cast it with TB correct
rigid mango
What?
minor thicket
Vandetta and TB together
minor thicket
If possible?
rigid mango
If possible, sure
but you don't miss an entire cast
of vendetta
nor 2 casts of tb
for them to align better
rigid mango
You want to cast it on cd, yes
you want it to align with vendetta, yes
You have to work around the two
minor thicket
10-4 I’ll make sure to do that going forward
minor thicket
Ok so I’m allowing some dots to run off?
rigid mango
Seemingly so, yes
minor thicket
I’ll watch for that aswell
rigid mango
It's not a super big deal since you're swapping to adds and only losing then
(I'd guess)
It'd be worse if it was whilst hitting him
minor thicket
Yea for sure
Usually before I move from a boss to add I renew the dot
Sometimes I forget or can’t
minor thicket
Progression
rigid mango
Ah then that's not too bad
minor thicket
But my burst dmg is super high for my opener it’s when I’m in the middle of the fight I don’t understand why my dps drops
rigid mango
You wasted barely any CP, which is good
because sin is sorta built around burst windows with tb + vendettta
minor thicket
I guess the TB and vandetta make that up
rigid mango
and as you saw, you missed a couple of those
minor thicket
Yes
rigid mango
which means your dps will suffer
fresh abyss
as orc i'm guessing i should pop blood fury alongside vendetta every time?
(both 2min cd)
minor thicket
Thanks Zine much appreciated
rigid mango
Yes nost
bleak spoke
You can Tb later in your vendetta
rigid mango
Anything that shares cd with vendetta, is really good
bleak spoke
It’s not a crime
rigid mango
Aslong as you get tb in your vendetta, you're fine
fresh abyss
btw why deadly + crippling and not deadly + wound?
bleak spoke
Can’t have deadly and wound
fresh abyss
ah, that explains that then :p
fresh abyss
how embarrassing that i've been playing for the last ~3 days thinking i can only have 1 poison
could have really helped out in my arena matches
oh also just thought of another q
you guys were talking earlier about sin traits having diff stat priorities
minor thicket
@rigid mango when looking at the log where did you see i Missed TB and vandetta?
rigid mango
Yep
minor thicket
Just curious so I know where to look
fresh abyss
how does that actually work out in practical terms - does it just mean i'm gemming differently?
rigid mango
@minor thicket saw fight lenght and cd
You only cast 2 vendettas when you should be able to cast 3 in 4 min
and fight was over 4 min
same logic for tb
minor thicket
ahh ok
fresh abyss
sorry but what does that mean on a practical level - similar to traits where i'm saving up diff similarly ilvl'd gear and then just switching to crit for EB for example?
rigid mango
I mean the only time you'd want to swap for m+ more or less
would be swapping amount of ttk traits
if you ahve several, mastery is better
few, vers is probably better
wise sun
When you say that you can tb later on in the vendetta, it should be paired with a vanish as well correct?
minor thicket
why do you vanish with vandetta?
wise sun
ya like TB instead of Exssang and what not
rigid mango
Which means using it + vendetta means major damage
Uhh sure
MA is go to on patchwerk style fights
Such as last 3 BoD
SS + Sub is nomrmally better for cleave
rigid mango
"Which means using it + vendetta means major damage"
It's another major cd
if you're running MA
wise sun
Because of the Master Assassin talent
minor thicket
ah
fluid pagoda
the guide is either unclear or wants me to assume to just use rupture asap when you spec Exsanguinate? it doesn't say to wait till 4+ combo points until it tells you to use envenom
rigid mango
I don't use exsang, so 
fluid pagoda
I currently use toxic blade, but I want to be educated on what's best.
fluid pagoda
Yes, but I want to be sure how to best use other talents as well, haha.
rigid mango
But why, when they're worse
fluid pagoda
That may not always be the case.
charred lantern
what azerite setup should i use on tyrannical week. I was using 3x eb 1x ss 2x ttk but it seems like overkill aoe
rigid mango
That's what I'd run
Tyr means trash easy
Trash easy = mass pulls
mass pulls = eb good
tropic ocean
i use the same
u can pull so big with these affixes that its not worth to higher st
charred lantern
echoing blades, shrouded suffication, twist the knife
minor thicket
gotcha someone should post the acronyms in the pinned part lol
charred lantern
there probably is one, dont remember where tho
rigid mango
I mean
charred lantern
i think it was on ravenholdt website
minor thicket
ah they are on the website lol ill learn them
limber gust
oof lying in wait and xct+ is kinda annyoing xD
rigid mango
hm?
tropic ocean
@limber gust i stopped using xct cuz of the trait spam and didnt know how to fix it 😛
the one when u kill an enemy and get healed gets crazy 2
limber gust
yea thats what i mean
xct+ shows every time you get healed by lying in wait
and it seems that Lying in wait doesnt stop healing you even if you are full heal
but tho more this visage trait useable more then once? 🤔
fluid pagoda
should i refine what skills I have at my selection when in stealth? I keep it pretty bare bones atm besides garrot and a few stealth only attacks. should I put some of my normal attacks in there?
devout glen
Id recomend envenom if ur ever running subturfuge
If youre in a vanish window and u have good rupture uptime ull overcap and have time to envenom
fluid pagoda
ah, use you get a buff coming out of stealth right? gotcha
so vanish and then do envendom at 4+ combo points?
rigid mango
I'm honestly a bit confused what ur asking
fluid pagoda
what part can I clear up?
strange python
like all of it
wise sun
He's asking which skills he should have on his stealth bar lol
rigid mango
strange python
ohhhhh
"should i refine what skills I have at my selection when in stealth" this part confused me so so much
fluid pagoda
@tropic ocean ty
solemn meadow
anyone could sim with alot of iterations what my topgear is?
forest leaf
would you guys recommend crimson tempest this week or poison bomb?
solemn meadow
is it worth it chaning the enchants?
changing*
idk if its just a iteration thing
tropic ocean
No
rigid mango
depoends on ur
tropic ocean
Maybe with 3 ss
rigid mango
aze
tropic ocean
But tb ttk just performs better anyway
tropic ocean
Not sure you want 3 eb in kr
rigid mango
Wouldn't run that
this week
nor do u want
mast stack
w that
vers is prob better
thorny shore
i heard vers better for aoe, and mast for st
tropic ocean
🤔
drifting cloud
@solemn meadow use bbi on shoulders
thorny shore
nothing personal should be good to tyranical?
solemn meadow
tbh Ryler idk if I like BBI
tropic ocean
No
solemn meadow
it sims like 30 dps more but it's rng and I like that NP is not rng
tropic ocean
U spend the most time fighting trash
Maybe u can switch one np in kr/tos tyran but other dungeon
Nono
solemn meadow
but I am up for arguments about why bbi is good
thorny shore
3ss2eb1ttk letgo
tropic ocean
@solemn meadow bcuz it gives a shitload of crit
forest leaf
play around with it a little bit
real bay
bbi is like 15% crit and the uptime isn't bad
solemn meadow
do I have to line up
Vendetta and toxic blade?
like if I have vendetta in 30secs
and toxic in 10
should I use toxic or wait for it
rigid mango
use toxic
Unless the killtimer makes you lose 1 vend cast
from missing 5 sec
delaying tb
ends up losing 15 sec
do that again, you lost an entire tb cast
That's a lot of damage
cobalt pelican
never hold tb, hold vendetta if you know fightlength confidently
if you don't never hold either
rigid mango
tb on cd every time
unless you know there's something that's going to stop you
from using tb value
like mechanic etc
rotund mural
question, im about to go to 11 key... do i want 3 eb and 1 ss, or 2 eb and 2ss gear?
rigid mango
Depends a bit on waht key
rotund mural
motherlode
rigid mango
first one
rotund mural
what dungeons would you go with 2eb and 2 ss?
rotund mural
ty mate!! ^^
modest tendon
so im browsing random rogues to look at different assassin builds, https://raider.io/characters/eu/ravencrest/Hiddenicon#season=season-bfa-2 this guy uses NP in M+, iv never seen it before, how do you guys rate it?
obviously hes an exceptional player
more burst on bosses is probably a good thing
strange python
could be nice for tyran
modest tendon
i can actually do this build, might experiment
rigid mango
I wouldn't
It's not worth it
Maybe in some niche build/group, maybe he was doing a specifically high tos/kr key
taking np in m+ is just generally a bad idea
modest tendon
iv actually been meaning to ask about this, i have seen some high level players using both the 3xEB, 3xSS builds, equally iv seen them use the 2/3ttk builds, its occured to me it must be for specific team comps/dungeons
rigid mango
3eb ss can be decent
but I wouldn't recommend it this week, you're pouring too much into cleave
and multi target
When TTK can be quite a bit better for focused damage/bosses
modest tendon
im using 2 ttk as standard currently
rigid mango
I'll be running 3ttk/eb 2ttk/eb 1 ss
For most dungeons this week, probably
Noticable are kr
where I'd go 2/2/2 prob
modest tendon
you could use the argument that tyran weeks mean you could go for bigger pulls and 3xEB would make it worth it though?
rigid mango
yes
3eb would be good this week
But KR and ToS have limited sized pulls
and bosses are way harder
So i'd value ttk/ss higher than the third eb
modest tendon
still waiting on my ss ttk helm but 2xttk, 1xss and 3xeb is what im standaising 😛
rigid mango
Yeah, that's really good this week in general
That's what I'll be running outside of KR/ToS, probably
tropic ocean
hes probably not using that stuff in m+
rio is not updated in a low intervall
oh wait nvm i didnt check
scenic creek
is the 415 engi goggles worth making
steep obsidian
they are good for sin and ol
so yeh
even though there is a good helm from first boss on mythic
exotic rose
Hey guys, noob question, when you apply dots with vendetta on, after vendetta falls off, the ticks would be the same as when vendetta was active or vendetta simply increases the damage of everything in that window disregarding of when the dot was applied?
rigid mango
They don't snapshot, no
thorny shore
i think its a window only
rigid mango
Assa bleeds are dynamic outside of NS/Sub/SS
So a dot applied during vendetta will deal vendetta dmg during it, but as soon as it falls off, back to normal damage
exotic rose
👍 ty so much
tall pelican
What raidbots am i suppose to sim for mythic+? Dungeon slice or patchworks
rigid mango
Dungeon slice, but it's not very good for sin
tall pelican
I got heavy aoe spec but sucks on bosses
3x EB 2x SS
is that wrong for this week?
rose perch
(to return to the NP discussion briefly, I think one or two copies are maybe optimal on tyrannical Kings' Rest keys - very good if it skips a roar on the last raptor or a severing axe on Kula the Butcher, and pretty decent utility on a lot of the smaller trash pulls too)
scenic creek
is kimbals claw even good
granite beacon
Just did the Legion artifact thing
It's funny how some specs get one "Go here and fight this guy" quest
And rogues get a whole assassins creed sequence
wise sun
should you always try to have TB off cooldown for when Vendetta + Vanish are usable? What should I do if vendetta and vanish are up but TB is on cooldown for say another 10 seconds or something?
rigid mango
wait
for tb to come up
unless waiting those 10 sec will mean you lose a vendetta at the end of the fight
round harbor
im seeing people running 3ss/3eb for cabal in logs, not everyone but some
their boss dmg seemsokman
am i missing something here?
tropic ocean
Cleave
scenic creek
is alchemist stone good
tropic ocean
depens on what other trinkets you have access to
heavy chasm
Do you guys think nothing personal will be nerfed when the vendetta essence drops? The damage potential seems insane.
royal lantern
there are classes where it is even stronger soooo......
real bay
yeah doubt it and it's pretty much purely st, not sure what other classes have
better have everyone a bit op than not and be boring af
steep obsidian
its always gonna proc when a mob is at 1% health anyway coz that how things gop
vestal wren
i have the same issue
thin patio
Same
marble hemlock
working for me
vestal wren
seem to work again
cinder sparrow
stable oxide
Its a strong trinket if you can benefit from it :P So if your tank pulls in a way where you can stand still and benefit from the full buff I would say yes
In reality I assume tanks might need to kite sometimes depending on the affixes and on situational stuff
tepid matrix
can anyone help me get this macro to work?
#showtooltip rupture
/cast [nomod] rupture
/cast [mod:ctrl, @focus] rupture
tropic ocean
@cinder sparrow it never was 😛
obsidian ruin
@tepid matrix try this:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl,@focus][] Rupture;
@obsidian ruin doesn't work for me
tepid matrix
I think it should just work but it doesn't for some reason, the regular target part works, just does nothing on focus target
obsidian ruin
idk you probably have ctrl bound somewhere, you cant use it at all if you want it to act as a modifier afaik
maybe try alt or some other key that you dont use for any bind
obsidian ruin
then it wont work
tepid matrix
but I don't think it should matter
obsidian ruin
it does
tepid matrix
well it's ctrl+3
obsidian ruin
ye then it wont work
strange python
I just grinded dungeons and unlocked the red hidden appearance for my assassin rogue. My artifact is the red variation but when i put my normal daggers on, the new appearance isn;t in my transmog tab
anyone know why?
solid nova
Relog
strange python
i tried that
obsidian ruin
did you visit your forge after unlocking? relogging should fix it tho idk
granite beacon
These are the mysteries
bleak spoke
happened to me, i transmogged something else then relogged and then when i logged back in it was there
leaden garden
its possible to save titanium res for next season? or will it reset?
royal lantern
the cost will be like 25x higher then now
rotund mural
any changes coming to assassin in 8.2?
rigid mango
Apart from essences, no
calm rover
According to hero damage 3x SS and 3x EB is the best build for m+, but I see some rogues running 3x TtK and 2x EB. Is the TtK build better than the SS build? I know it depends on your stats but if I want to build towards a goal, so which one would sim more with the best gear for respective build?
cobalt pelican
there isn't really a sim for m+ that reflects your actual goals in a dungeon
for there to be so it'd have to take into account who you're playing with, what dungeon it is, etc
in general 3ss/3eb is the most 'damage' you can do over the course of a dungeon assuming pulls are ideally sized for it and you can restealth every pack (like dungeon slice is)
but lacks single target almost entirely and ends up having a damage profile basically like outlaw
people take ttk to shift some of the power into single target, how many you want depends on what you're doing and is up to you to decide really
calm rover
oh alright, I just hear these crazy stories about sin rogues pulling more aoe than outlaw and like 60-80k ST
cobalt pelican
yeah that's not really a thing
one of the perks of assassination in dungeons is you can flex the spec basically
pulling stupid big on fort with no restealth time? drop to 1ss and play 3eb with blightborne or something
doing kr and pulling small and consistently? drop some of your ebs and play ss/ttk/whatever
i'm probably not the person to give specific advice on what is good where really since i don't play much m+ but you won't have '1 set' like that, and if you have a more specific question tailored to a key one of the nerds will help you more in detail
calm rover
Damn sounds good, thanks alot for the good answers ^^ atm I run 2x SS, 1x NP and 2x EB and do burst 40-50k aoe and and 30-40k ST. Sustained like 25k aoe and 21k ST
but that is when I can restealth between the packs
real bay
you should be able to hit 100k in a bigger pack
easily with vanish and 6 garrotes at least
rigid mango
Don't even need that tbh
real bay
likely not
real bay
just depends on pull but like 6 to 10 mobs
tropic ocean
yes
just in a +15 or 16? but meh you cant really pad hard with 3 eb anyways unless key is 20+ due to trash not living long enough so the extra boss dmg is really nice
for some aoe loss
so for 20+ (except tos/kr) id probably still use 3 eb but for < its super nice
modest tendon
Thinking about it a bit more, its basically a third single target trait, could be used in place of either the extra ss or the 3rd ttk
tropic ocean
rn my setup is cephalohide (eb/ttk, champions helm ss/np, and rasta shoulder eb/ttk)
in the 15 or 16fh cant remember I did i couldnt really push up dps in packs mostly 40~50k since outlaw and mage just bursted them down so fast
probably gets better in higher key
modest tendon
its probably a safe choice for tyran dungeons tbh, obviously your loosing a lot of padding becuase its useless when vendetta is not up but the extra dps on bosses, particulary single target ones could be pretty sweet
vast forum
ttk isn't really there to push your single target, it's there to push priority dmg
modest tendon
same thing right?
vast forum
SS with subterfuge has more ST value than TTK
it's not
priority dmg is single target in an aoe pack, ST is just you hitting 1 target
no FoK to give you 5 cp per global or other targets for rupture to cap your energy
modest tendon
are you saying you get more single target dps on a boss if you have for example 3xSS over a 2xTTK 1xSS or a 3xTTK, 1xSS build?
rigid mango
SS deals more damage on pure ST yes
rigid mango
The general use of the two are different
TTK is there to pump damage into the 1 target that needs to die
SS is better for low target cleave
And ST, but honestly I don't feel the diff too much
vast forum
SS has massive value on short fights
3 min fight it has more value than DD on single target, i remember someone here simmed it and posted results
modest tendon
interesting
vast forum
the longer the fight the lower the value of SS compared to DD tho, and TTK is never really in contention for the best ST trait
SS (with subterfuge), DD and NP are all better in pretty much all ST situations
however, DD and NP are fairly useless in m+
the only downside of running 3xSS 3xEB is the fact that you need to restealth between pulls, which is sometimes difficult (if reaping procs before you're done with a pack f.e.)
and TtK lets you pretend you're a sub rogue
which was massively popular for a good reason until they removed shuriken combo
worn violet
Basically ^this
golden nexus
Is it worth taking OP on tyran weeks or still a no
rigid mango
Op is always good
I take it to get some haste back on ST since I chunk it so insanely low otherwise
Just rely on op + 1 weap ench
shy axle
just got the azerit helmet with Eb/tk from the vendor. I could do a 3 Eb/2 ttk/1 SS combo now. Do you really recognize a big difference between 2 and 3 EB?
shy axle
ye, read it here often and wanted to try. So you`d say you feel the difference of 3 Eb to 2 EB ?
can`t test it atm
weary marten
Hey guys ! I'm new here and i have some questions :)
For Single Target I am running 3x SS + 2x NP + 1 TtK when i simcraft it says i should aim for 3x DD for more dps but in the facts i feel a dps loss when i listen to Simcraft. Does it seem normal ?
tropic ocean
this week i removed 1 eb so 3-> 2
@weary marten dd loses value when u have a lot of downtime, also ss is strong in short fights 3min and less other than that, dd is superior in st
weary marten
that's interesting
tropic ocean
so depends on what content you are doing, in m+ you'll never use dd
in raid on st encounters 3 dd
weary marten
should i only take one NP when i play DD ? cause i can have a infusion smthg (crit proc)
tropic ocean
depends on what you need
bbi usually goes higher over an extended duration
if you need burst dmg 2nd np or 3rd is fine
weary marten
ok !
for a dungeon / multi target build, first question is which T100 talent are you taking ?
tropic ocean
which rn theres not, sadly
bleak spoke
such as "I enjoy padding" or "let's see how much padding I can do"
tropic ocean
hb is decent if u have such pulls that u dont use spenders and just spam fok
bleak spoke
and ctemp if you're running a carry and stuff lives longer than it should by alot alot
weary marten
i use 3x SS + 2x EB + 1x TtK for MM+, should i aim for something else ?
bleak spoke
i just figured it would still be quite nice
tropic ocean
its a fine setup
bleak spoke
yes that's a good setup
weary marten
it would be soooo sick
bleak spoke
dude can you imagine if ct gave 7 regen
that would legitimately be busted
beyond all belief
weary marten
nah but like 3 on max 3 target
weary marten
also sick 😄
bleak spoke
I really miss carefully setting up the energy for ct
S1 assa was pretty fun
Echoing blades is kinda degenerate imo
weary marten
oh btw i have dice / plumage and spyglass on 410, which one are recommanded for ST / AOE
(dice has gem pretty sure it's to keep 100% of time)
bleak spoke
Dice spyglass has best thoroughput
My setup is similar, but I play plumage often over spyglass because i mostly play sin to beat certain dps checks
tropic ocean
best for m+ if your heal can handle it/you have the items is
bleak spoke
And on ST the plumage sims significantly better
tropic ocean
spyglass+cos trinket
bleak spoke
That
tropic ocean
with ur trinkets i'd use dice/spyglass
weary marten
for ST i use plumage too gives insane openers
bleak spoke
Cos trinket is actually disgusting and I wish I had one
My dice also has a socket so it’s hard to drop
But if I could at same ilevel and same sockets I’d play spyglass plum over dice plum
weary marten
on ST ?
weary marten
interesting specially if you run DD
bleak spoke
man, i have to play 3dd 1np 1trech 1ttk aus
tropic ocean
i usually play 1 np bbi
bleak spoke
can't seem to replace my jadefire shoulders
tropic ocean
but wanted to test 2 np burst
its sick with cos tirnket
trinket*
90k+ envenom on jaina
bleak spoke
i think for jaina if i could i'd actually play 3 dd 3np
cuz ttk has this requirement of uptime
weary marten
yes spymaster one
oh not op
but DD & NP
oh and are you guys using subterfuge or master assassin ? i am still runing subterfuge even in DD build
weary marten
what are the requirements to go MA ?
no SS ?
i don't do raid in MM though, i'm just slowly cleaning HM in guild
but i like to improve 😃
flint star
So CT is not worth using at all?
weary marten
that's what they said yes 😃
ancient path
anyone knows on what bosses the uunat boots works on in bod? or where u can have atleast decent uptime
sturdy python
All of them except jaina
tropic ocean
personally I just use them on champions and conclave
cuzof the free uptime
depends on wha tother boots u fhave
gleaming root
I have a set with 3x Shrouded and a set with 3x Double Dose. Everyone I see is using Shrouded, but sims tell me Double Dose is better. I'm confused.
sturdy python
Single target versus multi target basically
gleaming root
Ok. Thanks.
tropic ocean
@gleaming root basically u can just check wcl for the encounter and copy pasta
weary marten
Question : are you waiting for some energy before using toxic blade ? or you spam spells without caring
brisk forge
Minimum 2
sleek patrol
I got in a que with an assassin rogue who does crazy damage and he playing cards imson tempest ! I didn't see any guide advising to go CT talent for mythic plus!
rigid mango
because it's not as good as the other options, that's why
weary marten
Ok but are they fitable without pooling at least a bit before using TB ?
weary marten
so you are also trying to not have to refresh rupture / garrote during TB ?
rigid mango
Yes
civic palm
Yeah but at the same time if you get 2ENV you're fine.
rigid mango
You want to avoid
civic palm
Rupture falling off is worse than any other option.
rigid mango
You want to aim to have dots up and use tb on cd
and get 2 env in
Managing all of the above is one of the skillchecks of assa
weary marten
so if rupture < 10sec refresh before TB even if that delays TB from a few seconds
civic palm
Don't delay TB, plan better.
rigid mango
^
civic palm
The entire spec is planning.
rigid mango
Like I said, one of the bigger skillchecka
All you need to do is plan and know what to do when
Maximise your kit
weary marten
yeah in fact that's what i was thinking, but not what i said. I should plan to have a full duration rupture a few seconds before toxic blade is up so i can push hard when it's readyy
hushed valley
So I'm just coming back from before this raid teir. Couple questions.
With SS do I still only apply 3 times
Which traits are worth stacking and which not
Does nothing personal change the rotation at all
tropic ocean
- in m+ yes
- dd/eb
- no
visual quartz
SS bug was fixed in Oct pretty sure
vast forum
yes but on any number of targets above 3, you don't cast non-empowered garrotes
also, it's worth stacking any assa trait, depending on the situation
none of them have heavy diminishing returns when stacked
strange python
people still running 3ttk/2eb/ss in m+?
rigid mango
Yep
young meteor
@strange python what's the rotation for muliple mobs with that? Anything over 4+ just spam fok?
strange python
keep up bleeds, spam fok and dump envs into shit
i try and keep bleeds on 3 at least
that way i don't energy starve spamming fok/env
young meteor
Soo G, G, G, rup, fok, rup, fok, rup, fok - env, fok - env....?
rigid mango
Only 5 bleeds are needed
And at 5+ targets you mongo fok
under that, you fok -> env
young meteor
Ok u the man thank u @rigid mango
rigid mango
When garrotes start to fall off, and trash is still relativly healthy
you spread rup again
cedar ore
Iron Wire or Internal Bleeding on Jaina?
cedar ore
gotcha thank you
obtuse violet
!oh
obtuse violet
but they have to be daggers though?
rigid mango
Yes, read mutilate
obtuse violet
ah - crap, I guess I need to get daggers before I can learn Sin 😕
rigid mango
yessir
supple hearth
fathom echo
can anyone confirm this is the right opener for NP and DD , Garrote > Mut x2 > rupture > Vendetta > TB > Mut x2 > Enven > Vanish > Garotte > Mut x2 > Enven
fathom echo
no i run EP
tepid orchid
juice 😩
rigid mango
You go g -> mut -> rup
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
rigid mango
depends on your traits
fathom echo
3 DD 3 NP