For raiding, considering ilvl pieces
#assassination
sleek iron
Only your shoulder is bis
Gorak TIL
Gorak tul
Helm is bis if it was higher ilvl
honest needle
so shoulders is bis for raid n m+
honest needle
i cant decide what i wanna get from residue vendor for outlaw all i need is flash helm i alrdy have everything else bis
i alrdy have bis for outlaw thats why i wanna use my residue and get the stuff i need for assasination
since i like assasination better
sleek iron
This late in the game if you want bis m+ and bis raid
It’s a bit late tbh
Choose either
Right now you’re one piece complete for bis raid
honest needle
thats why i asked whats best item i should roll for assaintion. I wanna kno whats best piece for raid n whats best piece names for m+ is there a site that shows which exact peices i need for each
which piece do i need for bis raid ?
sleek iron
Yes
tropic ocean
for m+irontide captain helm
cephalohide jacket
and the shoulders with eb ss from m +
or the ones from raid at king rasta
but then you need another chest with ss
honest needle
so i need to get myrhic champions helm from raid or stormwall
honest needle
so i should roll shoulders or chest ?
the helm i need for outlaw isnt worth trying to get cause its only a .04 percent upgrader
so i rather try n get assasin stuff
tropic ocean
think u have chest with eb ss
i mean u ask for assasination stuff but show outlaw stuff
cant expect us to check every single piece
honest needle
i kno i dont wanan switch traits just to show a screen shiot
i have a chest with ss and NB
the chest i have with eb and ss is only 385
so @tropic ocean if u were me would u roll chest or shoulders
tropic ocean
idk since I dont know what traits are on your 2 chests
sleek iron
Someone linked a google drive file with al the azerite armor available
Yup it’s there
Check the pin
You nob
!help
honest needle
so ill just rol chest like u said n hope i get soemthing good
so i need chest n shoulders
i got gore splattered vest
is that good 1
honest needle
he said roll chest n use my 400 shoulders with eb and ss but i dont have 1 of those
so thats y i dont kno if i roll chest or shoulders
tropic ocean
no its not
and I said
and the shoulders with eb ss from m +
i'd roll chest
and take 400 shoulders with eb ss
celest salmon
Small question on Garrote with Subterfuge:
Is Garrote also empowered if i use it out of "Shadowmeld" or another rogues Shroud ?
worldly iron
only SS empowered, not subterfuge empowered out of shadowmeld
shroud.. I can't answer
you're supposed to be stealthed yourself anyways
p sure you won't trigger subterfuge out of someone else's shroud
eager nebula
Alright fellow stabbybois, I have a situation I'd like some opinions on. Got a non-Crit/Vers ring finally after a couple crafts. It's HCrit/LMastery now and I have enough gems left to craft 2 more "rolls" on rings. My second ring is a 410 Haste/Mastery. SHould I bite the bullet and pray for Crit/Haste roll or should I be a safeboi and keep the Crit/Mastery ring til I get more Bobsalami stuff next reclear?
celest salmon
@worldly iron ty
worldly iron
if you're not fighting a boss, you can shadowmeld -> stealth for empowered subt garrotes, good in dungeons
@eager nebula why be safe when you can gamble and be miserable when you get a bad roll 
celest salmon
I am not playing nightelf, i am just working on a weakaura that tracks my empowered garrotes
eager nebula
@worldly iron bc i got crit/vers the past 3 rings and it made me saaaaaaaaad
worldly iron
you can be sadder
eager nebula
vers/mastery?
celest salmon
so it would be nice to know if i have to consider those cases
eager nebula
like my 420 vers/mastery m+ ring
worldly iron
eager nebula
that sits in bags so i can trade rings to others?
worldly iron
you can just equip it on both slots and scrap it
eager nebula
nah i like to have it there as a token of the blizzard slot machine
worldly iron
fair enough
eager nebula
im just scared cuz im a night elf but i only got 17% haste ATM (doesn't matter much when im troll in the later parts of BOD)
worldly iron
oof
eager nebula
if i got lucky on any version of Crit/Haste i'd have probs 19% haste and still 20+% crit and 30+% mastery is why i wanna reroll the ring again
but the V-word scares me
aight fuck it gonna go for the dream and just be sad if i dont get it in 2 more crafts
319H/166M
aaaand back to heavy crit light mastery
oh well at least i didnt get Vers
eager nebula
troof
next reclear i'll have enough bobsalami to just craft and scrap that ring til i get the good roll
so this is a good placeholder
i was just terrified i'd make a good placeholder and lose it to vers
worldly iron
vers is the verst
can't wait to reclear once jaina is down, finally got 3x SS, 1x NP, 1x BBI, 1x TC
onyx rock
Wtf you got high haste/mastery ring and you scrapped it ?
Its perfect dude
Wtf kids these days
strange python
when doing grong
do u wanna vendetta, double garrote grong, then peace out to the ad?
dark crag
You pre garrote grong, vanish g grong g add 1 g add 2
Or you go ma because add hp was nerfed by 20%
worldly iron
even though MA is great, the majority of the top logs are subterfuge, you can pad far better that way
dark crag
Can you sort by date? I think most ss are from start of the raid
strange python
do I keep my ss if I go ma or do I go double dose again
worldly iron
dark crag
Like champions, on first day you could cheese so hard with ss, now adds just instantly meld
worldly iron
50/50 is wrong, but, there are quite a few MA compared to mythic
strange python
i just wanna get those oranged
tropic ocean
using multiple ss doesnt has a much higher chance to give u orange log
its more depandant to your killtime/how you play
i never used any more than 1 ss cuz i cba to reforge 24/7
scarlet sequoia
well on most bosses on hc ss is best
tropic ocean
?
its depandent on ur dps
on hc if I use ss the stuff will die before half of it ran out
tropic ocean
shouldnt the dps be good if its a boost run? i cant follow
scarlet sequoia
sure, but we have 10+ people doing 0
worldly iron
boosting guildies alts or selling boosts?
scarlet sequoia
@worldly iron selling ofc
tropic ocean
some of those are really old since I don't really do hc anymore
your raid and your decisions have a very big impact on your parse, more than switching a trait
I tried to parse stormwall cuz my log was green or blue switching gear then I forgot to take ss and used subterfuge and hit 97 with 3 dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ttk
and realized that it wont matter to switch ss or not if u have good uptime, good killtime
maybe if u wanna go 99 or 100 ull need to pad more havily but just getting orange log not needed
scarlet sequoia
all are with 3x dd 1x np 1x ss 1x tc
scarlet sequoia
i hope sub is the thing again soon
dark crag
Whenever i play outlaw at hc jaina noone gets a block
Play i assa they block left and right and the kill is so scuffed
tropic ocean
you don't need blocks for jaina log at all
worldly iron
you don't need them, but the more padding the better 
tropic ocean
not sure if block is worth it as assa
i mean opulence is the best example
you have heavy add pad
yet there aer top 100 logs ppl doing 3dd
if you just have good uptime and use your cd smart with a decent killtime you'll orange log
worldly iron
yeah absolutely, it's pretty circumstantial
tropic ocean
not a pretty high difference from pad to pure st
but it greatly shows how important killtime is
either go very fast
or slow so you can pad more
dark crag
Opu is do 1 side strat and win
Last time i did opu hc, it died right before second adds
If you play it normal
onyx rock
Or play Outlaw, let half of your raid be pepega and die and roll a 5 buff for the extra add wave 👌
Thats how i got my rank 1 on mythic
dark crag
Yeah our outlaw was last alive on jaina once, everyone blocked instant 99%
onyx rock
Yeah Outlaw is nice for pepega kills
dark crag
Dmg to blocks should be excluded like conclave
onyx rock
I agree
dark crag
Ele is ok since it is an unavoidable mechanic of the encounter but blocks boost specs because others made mistakes
onyx rock
Kind of hard to parse very well now on jaina since the ele is no thing anymore
I am not the best parser for sure... i am 94% overall on mythic i think and the nerfed jaina is holding me back now to go higher
dark crag
Yeah, i skipped the first bosses since a few weeks and only did mekka onwards. I want to start going for parses but no
Maybe next week
onyx rock
I am always set becouse my guild is bad
Totaly casual guild i am in now
CE yes but not good
dark crag
When you are stuck on traffic you can't raid
stuck knoll
I'd be happy if they excluded pad shit like blocks from logs ngl
onyx rock
Im not sure what i want tbh... i have some good friends here but on the other hand i want to be in a good guild
real bay
had that problem for years, lol
my friend is trying to get me join his horde guild
9/9 m
onyx rock
Yeah its hard... i dont wanna leave my friends behind but than i watch streams like Nibren or Avade and i wanna be a part of this part of the game. I think i can but yeah i am not sure what to do
Dont get me wrong my current guild is 9/9 mythic too but thats still bad... they are world 1000 or something
And every time when the group is becoming better someone of the better players leave and than you have to get someone new in and reprogress bosses with him
Man i am frustratet
real bay
we have big problems recruiting on alliance , small realm too
onyx rock
Yes i think recrutting is always hard when you dont have anything to offer
But you need to have a roster otherwise you cant raid
real bay
summer coming won't help
tropic ocean
@onyx rock can still parse with nerfed jaina just need to pad image more
theres still some top 100s popped up after jaina nerfs ( 18 to be exact)
tropic ocean
dont even need to
all post nerf
i guess the biggest influence is the dps stops or if u canjust push
difference between 3 or 4 vendetta i guess
onyx rock
Guess you are right yeah
night vale
do you dot up the iceblocked balista in p1 too?
onyx rock
I do sometimes for the extra Energie but like i said my guild is slow so i can a full 5cp rupture on it
When it dies fast than not worth like Ausgelebt said
night vale
all right good to know, ill have a look at logs and see how long ours takes to die... trying to parse on the fight, but atm seems to be that ill need an extra vendetta to parse well atm
tropic ocean
depends on what you define as well
I guess orange is possible with any cleaner kind of kill
pad barrels pad ele pad image
night vale
yeah you're right on that one
night vale
hahahaha 😛
tropic ocean
from the toplogs u can tell though that the dps is very rng depandant
same guy that did rank #1
has blue logs as well
onyx rock
Yes its stupid how much random proc shit we got these days imo
I always think its funny when people say Outlaw Dice is to much rng. I mean look at your OP procs, your BBI, Trinkets, Enchatments etc
Its just to much imo
royal lantern
without procs stuff would be boring tbh cus then you would always do 100%the same every single pull
and btw, every time somone says outlaw is too much rng
just ask him if frostmage is too much rng cus of frostbolt procs too
distant lava
Most people dont understand why outlaw is rng tbh
royal lantern
outlaw is not really rng.....
it was way more in legion, in bfa thats not true anymore
onyx rock
Yeah and the ss procs are more rng then the dice rng
stuck knoll
If anyone is wondering the probability of rolling 5 times and getting all TB is .000039571
Or 0.0039571%
onyx rock
Thats a funny number
cobalt pelican
so every dungeon at least 3 times then
tropic ocean
@cobalt pelican 🤙🏿
dark crag
i play sub at jaina, it motivates the others to stay above me or else we make fun of them
visual quartz
I use to do that as frost mage in WotLK, would just top meters and tell everyone they bad though 😛
dark crag
i literally never killed jaina as assa
maybe i do too much boss dps and their cds get thrown over
crisp steppe
Good looks👌
tropic ocean
think with bigger pulls 3eb very likely can go 50k
crisp steppe
Aye. And just never doing any small pulls helps
tropic ocean
should try to pull pack into ludwig to not let dps dunk
tropic ocean
monk buff cheaters
crisp steppe
Fh really the best for farming overall
tropic ocean
still no 4k @marble hemlock come on bench those outluls
seli is going freehold now lets go 60k
lethal heart
crisp steppe
U take it back sebek
stuck knoll
Take back the truth? 
crisp steppe
tropic ocean
assas not ded
vestal wren
why should assa be ded?
rotund mural
3eb on assass is a go to for m+ correct?
tropic ocean
@vestal wren well you know the fotm bois
vestal wren
well assassination is fav. in raids
in m+ however outlaw has around 3x the play rate
primal gazelle
yea thats true the higher the key is
but on "average" the two specs arent that far off
hollow stone
Go enjoy retirement, get out of here hb lord @primal gazelle
primal gazelle
😦
scenic creek
is a 370 galecaller boon better then a 400 forest lord razerleaf?
blissful crown
check hero damage
stuck knoll
No don't do that sim it
vestal wren
according to wcl 350k outlaw to 113k assassination (so ~3 times)
not sure what data are more accurate wcl or r.io
crisp steppe
I assume io. Wouldn't u have to log to have it show on io
vestal wren
iirc you dont need to log for wcl, tho both services have the same restrictions (from the api)
you could probably get the data from the leaderboards instead of using the api tho
cobalt pelican
they show different figures anyway, right? io is listing the total amount of unique players who've done a key at that level
and wcl is just the amount of parses which are non-unique anyway
either way as you turn up the key level on io it settles to 3:1 or there abouts, which lines up with wcl parse numbers which would make sense as generally only higher key players tend to post logs in the first place
vestal wren
wcl is actually not only parses from players for m+
crisp steppe
interesting
vestal wren
e.g. you can just look at your profile and see if you have parses
i got quite some even tho i never logged a key
vestal wren
and it seems very likely that (like mentioned) they just fetch the data from leatherboards.
like this message that pops up when you want to open the log shows
earnest bridge
hey guys ;) little question : what should make me choose between aoe or mono build for mm+ ? just the fortified/tyrannical affixes ? or something else ? (sorry for my english)
royal lantern
well, your group at the dungeon really
kings rest in general is a dungeon where full aoe padding is....not optimal as an example
crisp steppe
teeming can have an effect. outside of that I'd say mostly dungeons. like kings rest you don't often pull big while in freehold its very comfortable to do so
I feel temple of sethralis isn't too big pulls usually too
cobalt pelican
is it not just that someone else in your group has logged?
crisp steppe
nope
tropic ocean
the wcl logs are crawled from leaderboard/armory and logs
you can select it in the dropdown if you want logged runs or all runs that made it to leaderboard
maiden jewel
toxic blade or exsanguinate better?
civic palm
TB
tropic ocean
^p ffff
maiden jewel
for single target pvp
maiden jewel
aight
pallid brook
need help for pvp stats and traits
cobalt pelican
haste/mastery and ttk/battlefield focus/ss/sob just random mixes of shit is fine
cobalt pelican
it's probably the most burst you can do so if that's what you want go for it
it's pretty hard to give accurate pvp advice on traits given all the variables but 3ttk 1ss and any 2 others is generally a pretty safe bet
pallid brook
any cap on haste or mastery?
cobalt pelican
nop
and the other two stats are significantly behind in pvp for damage output, if you're playing something that results in your ass being plowed 24/7 you can gem vers or something but even then it's probably not worth it
pallid brook
23 crit 16 haste 42mastery 7versa how does that sound?
cobalt pelican
sounds ok, but they're pretty unquantifiable numbers
hidden plinth
whats the command for the ptr test spreadsheet?
zenith gust
flint jetty
Scrapped a couple Azerite pcs I didn't need and bought a helm. Can finally do 3 eb 2 ttk 1 ss Before Could only do 3/2/1 ttk and 2/2/2. Spinnyboi feelsgood
tropic ocean
nicesu pad
real bay
not doing big enough pulls 
tropic ocean
just pull with poisoned knife and tricks
real bay
ass pull whoops
tropic ocean
or the classic
ninja pull
"ROGUE STOP NINJAPULL"
vanish
WASNT ME I DONT HAVE AGGRO
200iq
vestal zenith
Is it ok to refresh rupture during the tb window? Or should I aim to refresh it before tb if I know it will hit the pandemic window during tb
tropic ocean
dont refresh during tb
its pretty much covered in the assasination guide what you want to do
tough ridge
Hi. Do you change your rotation with Elaborate Planning talented?
quasi pewter
not much, you try to clip your envenoms in eb but its not a big deal
tough ridge
So it's stronger than Master Poisoner, even if you don't get to clip much?
stuck knoll
Yeah you don't have to play around it much to get a better result
tough ridge
Alright. I just have a lot of mastery, so I have the feeling that it's pretty strong hehe
quasi pewter
yea even if you dont pay attention to it at all its gonna be the better choice
tough ridge
Thank you! 😃
quasi pewter
but if you can, try to have a little weakaura timer that shows the buff when its up and try clipping ur envenoms in at the last second
tough ridge
Yeh, cause it boosts all damage, also bleeds. I get that now.
Yeh, so keeping Envenom buff up gets less prio than getting two Envenoms off with in EP window?
quasi pewter
and if you cant clip anymore, pool to 100 energy and go again
vagrant nexus
Hi, I just swapped to sin for m+ and I'm a bit confused about the aoe rotation. At around how many mobs spamming FoK loses value to using envenom (I'm running 3x eb 3x ss)? And how does 2 x eb 2x SS 2x ttk changes the rotation?
tropic ocean
just personal opinion: once I can sustain energy (4-5rupture) i just spam fok
ttk changes the rotation as in, you will build with fok and spam envenom into 1 priority target, if there is one
if theres no target that needs to die asap u just spam fok
vagrant nexus
Ok. Thanks. This is kindof what i was doing but it felt wierd at first that i wasn't using finishers at all. I guess I'll get the hang of it.
velvet geyser
The engineering helm is kinda meh isnt it
velvet geyser
Yeah, I just noticed i have enough bwonsamdi's to craft one, but i already have a good helm with eb and ss
tropic ocean
transmute ur bwonsamdi to sanguincell and make tha feasts
brazen bane
quick question: whats the strongest raid spec? is it still assa? havent played in some time
pastel vault
yep asa
hot flume
Will it be far ahead of outlaw for 8.2 or not ? Do we have any ideas about that ?
tropic ocean
Wait and see
hot flume
Gotta be patient then !
solemn elk
so im picking up assassination preping for m+ season 3 in case outlaw falls off, how tf do i maximize dps on reaping? just bleed as many ghost as possible and use fan of knives instead of mutliate?
real bay
get echoing blades, spam fok, keep some bleeds for energy
solemn elk
thx my dps was pretty shitty on reaping packs lol
blissful moss
Env for for finisher or just keep spamming fok?
crisp steppe
for reaping spam fok
cobalt torrent
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
hazy iron
I wish blindside was stronger
crisp steppe
stronger than now sure. but I feel like if its too strong then you might end up paying for it. like fire mage is very powerful in execute but garbage outside of it.
hazy iron
yeah i guess. Give it 2 combo points and make it affected by double dose? lol
i dunno D: I just like procs
dusky jolt
what expansion was it that we had a 35% execute that refunded crazy amounts of energy?
ah yes, mop - Dispatch
or w8, its the same as current blindside, except it was baseline and dealt more dmg i believe (didn't refund energy, I was simply missremembering (: )
proud gust
What's a good overall dps at end of m+? I usually sit between 28k to 32k depending on dungeon for 14s-16s
marble hemlock
depends heavily on the dungeon, affixes, comp, pulls, keylevel etc.
i.e. in a temple youre prob ably not gonna hit more than 35k, in an underrot or freehold this week you can hit 50k+ under the right circumstances
rigid mango
50k 
rigid mango
Hell yeah
lost horizon
50k easy just do ML (disclaimer: not recommending ML this week LOL)
Cause fuck that
polar cape
50k is with triple echo i asume?
marble hemlock
yeah
polar cape
wish they were an echo helm in raid
marble hemlock
mhye, its weird how 2 helmets have basically the same traits for rogues
for assa anyway
rigid mango
Everything but t4 trait aint it?
polar cape
for sin yeah
rigid mango
I mean
rigid mango
I assume you pick dd np op
marble hemlock
t3/t4 are the same with op/resounding
rigid mango
on both
rigid mango
Ah ok
marble hemlock
thats why blockade one is bis 😄
muted cove
q
uncut ether
whats the general logic for bleeds in m+?
3 garrotes and 2 ruptures on opener? then maintain 4 ruptures after that? (for aoe)
and for 2 target you maintain 2 ruptures 2 garrote?
rigid mango
You want to maintain enough bleeds which means you have inf energy regen
Which is 5 bleeds
You open with g g g -> rup -> fok fok -> rup
and then assess the situation from there depending on amount of targets
You don't garrote after stealth ones
think of playing sin in m+ like driving a car, with 4 gears
first gear: 1 Target. you do standard 1 target rotaion (with exceptions if you're running HB)
second gear: 2 Target. say 2nd boss fh, your rotation changes a bit, you keep both dotted and you build differently
you muti first, 2 cp? muti again, 3 cp? fok, 4-5 cp? finish
This is if you're running 2+ eb
Third gear: 3-4 target, here you spread 5 bleeds and build and spend like regular, fok fok into env
Forth gear: 5+ Targets, here you spread 5 bleeds and fok like a madman, ignoring all spending until you need to reapply your bleeds with ruptures
This is a general guide with 2+ eb
young socket
Is CT being less popular a symptom of EB being very strong, reaping, or both?
uncut ether
@rigid mango ty for that ❤
modest tendon
in m+ when would you use toxic blade or exsanguinate? are the specific dungeons that one works better on the other? I use toxic blade for everything by default
crisp steppe
That new raid trait gives secondary stats (I believe ur highest one) every 1.5M dmg. Possibly very good in m+
marble hemlock
doubt it can compete with the current ones
crisp steppe
havent checked if theres eb+that trait on pieces yet but that could have potential
no reaping so generally smaller pulls compared to now so extra crit can help get your ebs off
marble hemlock
with beguiling working as we suspect it does, EB will fall off in value quite heavily
and we might just play a more prio-damage centric build
so we'd have to keep mastery over crit to get a mastery proc instead of crit, since crit doesnt really help all that much with prio on small-scale pulls
balmy condor
Infested 2.0 
marble hemlock
unless its an insanely strong proc akin to BBI or smth
crisp steppe
15sec
so 50k dps would be 50% uptime
heard it pandemics but not sure
like you can get it up to 30sec etc
not just 30% of initial duration
marble hemlock
thats slightly more than 1/3rd of a current BBI proc
the problem i see with a prio/st heavy affix is that we have to divert our attention to either doing aoe and not prio to proc it, to then use the proc (which doesnt seem super impactful for the cost at which it comes)
if we prio from the start, its gonna take us longer to get the proc
crisp steppe
well it'll depend on how difficult it is too how hard we want to prio
but if we wanted to do aoe and prio you would want the traits you basicly go for now
eb and ttk
then blood of the enemy is going to take care of the cp generation
marble hemlock
i expect us to run one of the dmg-proc essences
atleast at the start of the season when our gear isnt 440+ yet
steep obsidian
i havent even looked at em all properly
mild falcon
are the 415 engineering specs any good? what's the best trait out of the 4 engineering ones for m+ and for raids?
marble hemlock
take the agi/haste proc one
the bombs, even for m+, are kinda mediocre these days
mild falcon
ok thanks
marble hemlock
damage generally updates dynamically
a few exceptions are "snapshots" like nightstalker or exsanguinate
which apply modifiers as you use the ability, and those modifiers disappear if you reapply the same ability
rustic onyx
do you think the ttk build will be run on assa with the s3 affix ?
shy axle
Eb still will have it`s value to throw in tough. Things change bit i´d say there will still be an combination of SS/TtK/EB and maybe an bbi or np thrown inside
tropic ocean
dont think there will be much of a change
there still will be dungeons where you use 2 or 3 eb and dungeons where you will use maybe 1 or 2
1 ss and rest ttk
without reaping overall dps will be significantly lower 20~25% i'd estimate and will catch back up if they buff the dunngeon scaling again and with better gear
shy axle
would you use "standart" MA + 3x DD/1x NP/BB/TK or Subt and 1 or 2 SS instead of DD for Rasta myth?
still thinking about it if it is worth
shy axle
kill it hehe
tropic ocean
if you lack boss dps probably dd nps
shy axle
atm we die on the transition after the adds appear. But we did only ~ 10 trys for now. Atm we are ccing all of them but maybe it is better to kill one after another, due to the deaths that occure frequently in our trys
tropic ocean
I guess if its a first kill multiple ss with nps can be really good due to generally lower uptime
shy axle
i could do 2x SS 2x Np 1x dd 1x tk
tropic ocean
thats great, i'd take that with subterfuge
shy axle
okay i will take alook. Thanks
timber meadow
Just started playing assa and was curious what you all would do for M+ with this setup
rigid mango
You just linked topgear
royal lantern
i was confused why you gear looks so simelar too mine lul
timber meadow
hjahaha
yeah been an outlaw main since i started playing in uldir and figured i should prob become a real rogue player and learn some assa : /
royal lantern
you want too go for m+?
rigid mango
You also don't have any TTK
timber meadow
yeah, unfortunately I don't have more than 1 eb currently
what helm would you be targeting?
I have a decent raid setup my buddy whose active in here helped me with
rigid mango
Flashpowder
timber meadow
so was just curious about M+
rigid mango
or w/ever it's called
royal lantern
change the OP on your shoulders with whirlwind or unstableflames too
timber meadow
i could add in a ttk with op helm
tropic ocean
irontide
rigid mango
Cowl of flulid machinations
tropic ocean
wdym flashpowder
tropic ocean
pistoleer's spaulders
for shoulder
or rasta shoulder if u have access to it
(pistoleer have crit trait, rasta op)
tropic ocean
chest theres many options
rigid mango
ttk/eb aint bad
rigid mango
Grong?
timber meadow
i have cephalohide
timber meadow
i have rainment
royal lantern
if you have the opulence crown, it has somewhat good traits too
timber meadow
got shrouded/eb on my chest
ye i got op
could replace current helm with that and keep shrouded and add in a ttk
timber meadow
as far as what i currently have - any major changes with my current gear and what i have equipped
tropic ocean
I basically just switch out helmet/shoulder depending on week
helmet to opulence crown (if I need less eb)
shoulders to ttk/op if I need more prio/st
robust cloak
is there a good way to sim the boots from uu'nat? stormglide steps, the crit buff you lose when taking damage
timber meadow
you think shrouded/ttk would be better than my current shrouded/tc in the helm spot?
tropic ocean
I guess so yeah
for me agi is one of the worst stats so ttk >>> tc
@robust cloak they are very good on champions, conclave, more than decent on stormwall once u get off the ship
not sure if you can sim it properly
robust cloak
basically anything without a long term dot right
tropic ocean
heres uptime on stormwall fight for example
they are pretty decent if you are good at dodging stuff, for fights where theres not much unavoidable damage (e.g. trash on jaina cuz u take constant dmg)
robust cloak
will likely be shit on mekka i'm assuming since the bot damage/random sparks
tropic ocean
and if u get bomb dot
robust cloak
ah ofc
i got a forged set to 415 so it'll be worth holding onto for specific fights
robust cloak
i've got 425 crit mastery but i've got 44% mastery so happy to drop a little of that
plus i'm running lurkers too
vast forum
lots of feelycraft running free in here
tropic ocean
lots of sim warriors in here
cool for you, idc though
idk what you always want to tell me
with feelycraft obviously its feelycraft when you test something yourself but sim is also not 100% the truth
my st sim tells me in my cephalohide dagger in the back > ttk
yet I use ttk, like the other rogues as well
stuck knoll
That's not the sims being wrong that's being able to understand what the sims mean
crisp steppe
not really followed the conversation but ST is obviously much easier to sim. and its pretty obvious as to why you shouldn't rate dagger in the back purely by its sims
quasi pewter
Idk how the same can be true about tc vs ttk though if you sim properly
rigid mango
don't fuel the conversation
quasi pewter
Feelycraft is neccessary sometimes because there is no way to sim something accurately, not the case eith tc vs ttk though?
lost horizon
There's slight uncertainty in buff uptime for TC depending on fight I guess
strange python
On a fight like Stormwall i can see how feelycraft might turn ttk > tc for some
lost horizon
But as long as you're not just slapping it on 100% and inflating it it's not hard to go check uptime on pulls
quasi pewter
There is literally no fight where you have less than 90% uptime though, and i would guess even with 80% tc sims better
lost horizon
Healers could have a grudge on you
quasi pewter
Dude i just woke up i read the last 2 messages
lost horizon
I skimmed and only saw references to stormwall/mekka and shit 🤷
strange python
Thought you were on about stormwall
quasi pewter
In m+ you obviously take ttk over tc
tropic ocean
yeah was another guy asking about crit boots
strange python
haha, guess alot missjudged the situation :p
tropic ocean
2 different persons 😛
lost horizon
Pfft imagine expecting us to read before jumping on alleged feelycraft
tropic ocean
in a perfect world
imagine bringing anything into a conversation besides "feelycraft"
quasi pewter
Fuck you feelycrafter
tropic ocean
😢
luckily I always state something like i personally/for me so
my lawyer says im good
stuck knoll
The boots are only really bad on jaina cuz a lot of other dot based stuff don't break it
lost horizon
Imagine having a personal opinion on something that can be simmed
stuck knoll
Like basically nothing except kimbul slash on conclave iirc
lost horizon
FeElYcRaFt
quasi pewter
Waking up just to fall back asleep during uunat progress in an hour
tropic ocean
@lost horizon i mean many situations are kinda hard to sim
since the sim is so static
i always took sim as a basic guideline and tested more indepth stuff by just switching the gear and took what felt bestfor me, and it worked out good so far might be wrong, might be right
but to each his own
lost horizon
Imagine not simming every decision in your life
Nah fr you gotta take em with a grain of salt
But watching people try to make simple gear decisions without simming is painful
tropic ocean
well I guess he jsut didnt know how to sim ttk vs tc in a m+ situation
even in raid i find it kinda hard cuz less fights like garothi/taloc
tropic ocean
think to get more accurate results, e.g. in jaina you'd need to manually adjust the fight
for downtimes etc
or just copy paste the setup of good players
quasi pewter
In raids you can usually just copy good logs
Unless theyre padding hard but you can usually see that
lost horizon
For stuff like trait decisions for sure
tropic ocean
i usually look at the logs and when I have a more complicated question I literally just msg better players and ask them
works well
or watch streams
for assa m+ basically seliathan carried my score
😄
lost horizon
Ugh I don't even wanna think about M+
quasi pewter
Assa is so much more fun than outlaw in m+
marble hemlock
the higher you go, the more keys you will deplete relative to the amount of keys you time
that shouldnt demotive you tho
depleting keys means you made mistakes, which means you shouldve been able to identify them and become a better player 😃
timber meadow
assa honestly doesn't seem that bad in M+, im maybe 1-3k less on trash packs and i def. dont have an ideal setup but idk guess just initial thoughts
rigid mango
It's on the same level as outlaw, arguably
timber meadow
outlaw has some nice utility tho
rigid mango
yeah, that's why outlaw is so good
tropic ocean
i mean you can outpad outlaw since outlaws aoe is limited by bf
rigid mango
Because of gouge and BTE etc
tropic ocean
but the stun finisher is pretty huge
timber meadow
ye huge
tropic ocean
like as assa if u dont run internal bleeding u lose dps by stunning
while foroutlaw it doesnt matter
quasi pewter
Assa wants to use vanish as dps cd aswell which can be annoying
marble hemlock
Only if you run multiple SS
If you just play one, you can easily use it as a utility CD instead or just pop vanish mid-fight for utility and another ooc-potion while your group chainpulls stuff together
tropic ocean
im not sure you can use vanish as dps cd in really high keys
quasi pewter
Ofc seli
tropic ocean
in tyran fh i use it when I get powder shot :D!
quasi pewter
But you would still want to use it as dps cd even with 1 ss
marble hemlock
nah
marble hemlock
3x3EB FoKs deal more damage than 3 garrotes
tropic ocean
and for this week i feel better with chainpulling, i just try to prepare cp rupture spam fok
had some decent results with it compared to getting ooc and put 3 garrote
marble hemlock
chainpulling is beneficial to assa
since we get to skip the ramp-up stage during the first 5-7GCDs we have on a fresh pull
tropic ocean
I was always worried about chain pulls for the reason but after watching some gameplay I figured if you just prepare you can pull better numbers by just keep going
only thing that did change is that my eb/fok is higher in dmg and garrote dropped down but overall pretty good
lost horizon
@marble hemlock yeah I know what you mean, just felt like there were keys we really should've timed but missed you know?
charred lantern
i have 3x eb 2x Ttk and 1x ss. Should i go all in for crit?
i have 900 haste and 1.450 crit
and is the 2x each azerite and going ham on crit is best way?
for mythics ofc
quasi pewter
Ur setup is propably best for this week
2 2 2 is also good
And with 3 eb crit is the way to go yea
But some mastery isnt wrong either for ttk
quasi pewter
With 3 eb propably even vers>haste
charred lantern
wow okay
charred lantern
should i change the weapon enh as well ? to like mastery and crit
quasi pewter
Haste is only good for bosses in m+
quasi pewter
Aoe 4-5 ruptures are gonna be enough for energy
rigid mango
🤢
quasi pewter
Yea propably
charred lantern
great thank you
tropic ocean
it heavily depends on your stat weights
generally you want lower haste and high crit/mastery for m+
but if you can change a high haste mastery piece to high crit versa it might pull ahead on aoe
shy axle
which pieces are you using for 3Eb/2tk/1SS?
rigid mango
What's you guys' opinion on SoB ni m cabal so far?
For the people who've been using it
and @shy axle I'm using Flashpowder/Pistoleers/vest indom will
past marten
Probably has been asked 100 times already: on Jaina M: dot ballistas or not in P1?
bronze topaz
do we trample with shadowstep at mekka?
crisp ledge
yes
bronze topaz
thanks
past marten
Thanks @tropic ocean
azure matrix
Should i stay with 420 engi helm, or a 400 helm which has EB? Allready have two EB's but really want that third
quasi pewter
depending on how long ballistas live you can definitely gain from rupturing them
rocky ruin
i got now 33 % crit, 8% haste and 33% mastery and i must say energy reg in boss fight its kinda strange now
sturdy herald
8% haste. Just too low af
tropic ocean
@rocky ruin u can use overwhelming power traits/haste weapon enchant to carry ur boss dps
harsh sphinx
^
tropic ocean
i'd even go lower i'm aiming for 6-7%
oh also, lurker trinekt will carry st as well
elfin cove
Hi guys. Im not happy with how im performing in raids, and want to improve^^. I want to know some small/big tips that will help me improve. Name is Melfen 😃 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6NLZ4mpvxX7MK1Yn/
vast forum
garrote and rupture uptime on grong need some looking at
tropic ocean
jaina, overcapping resources, not casting psosible vendetta/toxic blades
quasi pewter
am i seeing right that ur not using vanish at all
tropic ocean
overbuffed multiple snapped garrotes
no vanish usage
no pot no flask no food
gear not enchanted
harsh sphinx
opener on grong incorrect for subterfuge shrouded opener
i'd go over the ravenholdt guide for openers but it should be something like this @elfin cove
elfin cove
Ye im not using vanish at all :'/ New to raiding ^^
rigid mango
You don't know the opener
elfin cove
Is it possible to enchant all gear?
elfin cove
ah ok, need to enchant my weapons then
quasi pewter
you should go read the guide in pins
if you still have questions after you can ask here
strong folio
is there a way to sim always 0 stacks on the boots from cabal
?
cause i just got it 425 socket
harsh sphinx
with 0 stacks it will probably sim quite lower than your boots before
vast forum
i mean, you're NEVER gonna have 0 stacks all fight
grave elk
is the maintenance schedule this week in prep for 8.2?
rigid mango
Since we've yet to see a release date, who knows
meager nebula
8.2 won't be for awhile
rigid mango
People estimate late june early july
midnight flower
@past marten I just blast Jaina if I’m close by one I might rupture it. But I find it doesn’t matter at all. Just blow up boss
They melt you might get few ticks but f it
rigid mango
I wouldn't touch them unless specifically told to, or it's SUPER close and you can put a 3 cp rup on it or smth
quasi pewter
in my guild some ballistas actually live long enough for rupt to be worth it
raidlead usually calls when one needs to be blown up insta
if there is no call i rupture pretty much every time
if you just get 5cp step to ballista and run back there is like 0,5 second downtime max anyway
rigid mango
I'd say that's like, nearly never worth it
rigid mango
if it lives for 20 sec you don't have any ranged
quasi pewter
pretty sure they mostly dot it unless it needs to die insta
rigid mango
Yeah
midnight flower
Yeah mine just melt
rigid mango
but 20 sec is A LOT of time
quasi pewter
wait im gonna look
harsh sphinx
the locks just eat it up
midnight flower
Yeah they pump on it
quasi pewter
midnight flower
No way they live 20
midnight flower
😆
midnight flower
Well you kill it so it’s working
harsh sphinx
heard mixed thing's about rupturing the ballistas now i don't know --_--
quasi pewter
you dont need to
its ranges job
i only do it for overall dps
when they live long enough
so if you dont care about logs just tunnel boss
harsh sphinx
i'm doing my best to just pump into her. we have locks using voidstone for some reason. the entire experience is just frustrating AF tbh
rigid mango
Not very assa specific ngl
meager nebula
yes they do, but thats more of a #wow-general question
exotic rose
Hey guys, I’m curious why the opener with subterfuge and shrouded suffocation is garrote rupture garrote instead of garrote mutilate rupture.
Is it because of the 3 combo points that garrote will generate? Becoming even better than the damage of a mutilate?
quasi pewter
because you want pandemiced empowered garrote
exotic rose
Hmm how is pandemic related? I’m just talking about the first 3 gcds. 🤔
quasi pewter
with garrote mut rupture you have 18 seconds of empowered garrote
with garrote rupt garrote you have 24 seconds
strange python
reclearing jaina every week when will this endddddd
rigid mango
When 8.2 drops, ty for your comment
supple hearth
quasi pewter
just leave ur guild 4head
strange python
haha right? lol
exotic rose
@quasi pewter, back to my question. When there are two targets like jadefire, how is the opener with subterfuge and shrouded? Garrote Target 1 and garrote garrote Target 2?
quasi pewter
yea
first target 1 garrote second target 2 garrotes
but for specific questions like that you can usually just look at some top logs and see what they're/we're doing
exotic rose
👍
gloomy dew
which z troll shrine are ppl using for sin?
gloomy dew
human by alot
civic palm
Yeah well the numbers are more important.
See?
THAT is a big bar.
Like O _O
waow
It's also like 3x as much.
gloomy dew
yeah. well paku works, i usually run outlaw and i use paku for that too anyway
cobalt gyro
@civic palm is that nelves in dslice?
rigid mango
I'd assume it's just with SS?
civic palm
ye
cobalt gyro
it's definitely more than 3% of an increase if you can get the constant restealths
cobalt gyro
just burst 100k on 9 mobs.
with 1 spell.
no problem.
or more realistically; 50 seconds of SS subt garrotes on 3 targets.
robust cloak
yo dudes, did they fix that thing where using an unempowered garrote removes the empowerment from previous garrotes?
robust cloak
didn't it used to be if you garrote 3 targets you'd have all 3 empowered
but if you garrote 4 targets they all lose the buff?
rigid mango
uhhh
Havn't heard of the bug
And since I didn't play assa in 2018, that'd be why. My bad
solid nova
Yeah, if you garroted a 4th target, your other 3 empowered garrottes lost their buff
rigid mango
The fuck lol
solid nova
Its been fixed for a very long time
robust cloak
holy fuck
rigid mango
Aye, since I've never heard of it
solid nova
^
rigid mango
You're better of building and spending on rupture
robust cloak
have my buddy sitting next to me and tried to show him that bug and it didn't happen and i'm like ??????????
solid nova
Its been pinned since November last year 
robust cloak
goddamn
robust cloak
i'm so tilted
cobalt gyro
Garrote's pretty much only worth if you only have 3 targets and want a 4 dot for energy tbh
Then fok to victory
tropic ocean
idk i never use garrote after empowered ones
tropic ocean
i use vanish and regarrote on a prio target ahts it
other than that just spam fok
i completely dropped using stealth and garrote before reaping too
i just fok rup fok rup fok rup fok fok fok fok fok
cobalt gyro
Outside of empowered i mean
tropic ocean
yeah
tropic ocean
not sure its worth it to just fok spam on 3 mobs
i just use fok to build and dump envenoms in this target counts
cobalt gyro
Probably depends on the amount of fok traits
tropic ocean
think its 5 or 6 target where u will just spam fok
but im not the theory guy so its FEELYCRAFT
cobalt gyro
With no ttk idk if it's worth to env at all on 3t
tropic ocean
well i use 2 ttk but without ttk probably not
im not sure how to calculate it
cuz its basically fok+eb vs envenom+pb+ep
and the 30% application chance buff
stuck knoll
Sockets and Gorak tuls
I also don't know how good the crit vers ring is for assassination
A well stat'd 410 might beat it
Also look into mastery/haste enchants over crit
The zuldazar set would also likely be good
scarlet sequoia
wtf are you an outlaw man or what are these stats
visual quartz
yeah vers is astronomical for asn, haste is low enough for M+, mastery is way low too, yikers
steep obsidian
419 ilvl /spit
kind gorge
oh come on dude why spit
sullen pagoda
damn thats a low sim for 419
kind gorge
probably because i recenlt went assa from outlaw
rotund mural
i know the feeling, i recently switched from outlaw to assassin too, regret nothing
kind gorge
i played most of the expansion solo ,and the only way to survive was to do m+
and outlaw was prefered more from people
rotund mural
i tried assassin first time y-day in a 15 key with 3 echoing blades.... was awesome 😄 not as powerful as outlaw to do over 100k but it was fun to play that's for sure
kind gorge
and i sim higher that you as outlaw is that a reason to spit you ?
i think we are here to improve and not to be toxic
kind gorge
no worries mate 😄
steep obsidian
My gm is 420 with a bunch of sockets I hate him
kind gorge
do you guys run master assasin or Subterfuge on raids
pseudo finch
depends on traits, but normally MA
kind gorge
does it worth having 1 trait of ss and sub for raiding ?
steep obsidian
For multiple targets sure
Rasta grong 3rd boss whatever it’s called it’s good
First boss if you want to parse but who cares
leaden garden
How is asa in low (10-13) m+?
steep obsidian
Decent? Getting a full vendetta on a mob is impossible but apart from that fine
leaden garden
Will people laugh at me for not playing outlaw? seems outlaw is the ultimate fotm
lament dove
I don't think people care that much, as long as your dps is ok and the run is fine
I couldn't care less what spec other people running, and 10-13 is not really hard with the current gear progression
besides I'm running in the same league (usually only doing m+ for weekly chest and filling in on guild runs) and I never saw anyone outdps me as assa
well, once, my guildie who plays outlaw, by a small margin
last zephyr
has any1 a weakaura for master assassin? cant find any on wago
steep obsidian
It’s so short I never even bothered to track it
misty edge
Hey guys I was thinking about something and wondering if anyone knew. That I can think of sin is the only spec in the game with a single target debuff as their CD so how will the new essence work procing vendetta?! Is it just going to pick a random target and put it on it?! Or is it going to change to be a buff on us I’m really interested in how that’s going to work exactly
misty edge
So if you’re in an aoe pack and you’re FoK it will just pick a random target and apply it and then you gotta find it and target him. That kinda blows but oh well
vast forum
does it mean it won't proc if you're targeting someone friendly while foking
viscid anchor
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
vestal dagger
I have 420 chest and shoulders each with SS and EB. Is it worth dropping 420 head to 405 to get a third EB for dungeons?
stuck knoll
Depends what the traits on your head are
vestal dagger
DD and NP. Big single target traits. Other trait on the 405 is ttk
stuck knoll
DD and np are pretty awful in dungneons
DD and EB have anti synergy so you really don't want to run noth
vestal dagger
That’s what I thought. Thank you!
modest tendon
Iv seen a lot of people choose NP over TC on the cowl of Righteous Resolve, I sim higher using TC, is there a reason to take NP over it?
solar rose
If you already have one NP trait, the second one isn’t as valuable unless you have the mastery on use from crucible. NP also offers higher burst windows
modest tendon
its a matter of padding meters then?
stuck knoll
Well no it's that with lurkers the extra burst on vend is more valuable and also likely some people not wanting to risk the downside
solar rose
No? Even on your sims the difference between NP and TC shouldn’t be that big, so people just usually take the NP for higher burst windows and to not have the negative effect TC has
stuck knoll
Are you simming TC at 100% or 90%
modest tendon
default patchwek whatever that is
solar rose
Probably 100% then, most fights that isn’t realistic. Putting that to 80-90% is more realistic and it’ll close that 100 dps gap real quick